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D L X
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Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:18 pm

Big version: Width: 90 Height: 119 File size: 4kb

http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279

I mean, how can you disagree? Until very recently, I've utterly refused to say I was a Democrat or a Republican, but these days, I am getting more and more comfortable with the idea of declaring. The reason is simple: nearly all parts of the Republican party that I have agreed with have been expunged from the party, leaving a carcass that is comprised of intolerance on every angle. Rush is the centerpiece of such intolerance. I'm not just talking about intolerance of people who are different than you in class and ethnicity, but also people who dare dissent. Look at all the apologies. Look at how Rush quacks on air that he will not speak to anyone that criticizes Bobby Jindal, no matter how poorly Jindal performed. No, the party is becoming more and more the party of angry white men - just like Rush. And since most of the country are not angry white men, and the population of angry white men is getting smaller and smaller compared to the rest of us, we may be seeing the beginning of the end of the Republican party, just like the Whigs. The quicker the Republican party silences Limbaugh's fat pie hole, the sooner we'll see a viable Republican party. You know, like how it used to look under Lincoln, Eisenhower* and dare I say, Reagan, none of whom were angry white men.

Read and enjoy, before it is retracted and Frum apologizes to Limbaugh for falling out of step.

*Eisenhower was from an era where political parties meant little. He was recruited by both the Dems and the Republicans.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
leaving a carcass that is comprised of intolerance on every angle. Rush is the centerpiece of such intolerance.

Letting us keep what we earn and small government is intolerance?

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
and dare I say, Reagan, none of whom were angry white men.

Everything Rush said is Reagan, why is he an angry white man? He simply doesn't want to go down this ugly road that Obama, Pelosi and Reid are taking us. If you want that fine but I don't. It is clear you didn't listen to Rush's speech and it is also clear that Obama and Pelosi are quite scared of Rush because between him and the fact they are becoming exposed as an administration and a congress who has no idea what they are doing the next elections are not going to be fun. Rush has brought this to light and it trying to get the GOP to get their heads out of their asses because if they don't in 4 years we are going to be worse than Carter. Big time. With sky high inflation and countries launching attacks on us.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):

Yes, the idiotic "Party Line" crap has to stop. Criticism is OK and as American as the right to bear arms. Any "Conservative" that tells others to shut up and allows only "loyal" people to be heard is un-American in my book. We were built on diversity of thought and Independence in action. The Republican party can be great again when it remembers this and Conservatives will come in from the cold when they acknowledge this.

Tugg
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There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:02 pm

How long until he issues an apology for this?
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:20 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Letting us keep what we earn and small government is intolerance?

I already answered this ine in another thread, but it bears repeating. No one gets to "keep what they earn" because in this world and country taxes are necessary. I for one think we need roads, police, a strong national defense, etc.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Everything Rush said is Reagan,

Reagan was not defending his radio show turf. To equate Reagan and Rush is silly as they did not have the same motivation at all. Reagan also didn't say these things after eight years of a Republican presidency that violated most of what conservatives and the Republican party stand for. The big problem for these groups right now is that they were not vociferously voicing dissent for the last eight years and castigating the the President for allowing the bloating of government and budgets and deficits to occur. Conservatives and Republicans have lost credibility and yelling "wolf" now rings hollow.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
why is he an angry white man?

Because that's what he is. Have you seen him lately?

Tugg

[Edited 2009-03-11 11:20:56]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):

Letting us keep what we earn and small government is intolerance?

Does a small government ban abortion and gay marriage and sodomy? Does a small government run a massive war on terror and a war on drugs (that has gone on for almost 50 years now without any progress on decreasing drug use or drug-related damages)?

Does a small government dictate that schools teach evolution and abstinence-only education?

Seems like your "small government" is a government that seems to spend a lot of time passing rules and regulations about what adults can and cannot do, but doesn't spend any money on infrastructure, healthcare, or economic growth.

I'm all for a small government, but not the way Limbaugh wants to do it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):

Everything Rush said is Reagan, why is he an angry white man?

"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream. " -RL

"If you commit a crime, you're guilty. " -RL (Like abusing prescription narcotics, Rush?)

He even called servicemembers who had served in Iraq and opposed the "war" there "phony soldiers."

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies." -RL

Would Reagan have trashed soldiers? Women? African Americans?

NIKV, I have some news for you: the WWF/WWE people aren't actually fighting.
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Rush has brought this to light and it trying to get the GOP to get their heads out of their asses because if they don't in 4 years we are going to be worse than Carter.

I heard Rush say something today that makes me stop and ask: WTF? He said the Republicans have to get back back in power in 2010 because that is when the stimulus kicks in. Not even missing a breath, he said the stimulus is not working. Which is it? Nobody but nobody said the stimulus would turn everything around overnight. Since nothing was fixed even as the ink was drying from Obama signing the stimulus bill, it has failed in the eyes of Rush. But, wait! The bulk of the stimulus does not kick in until 2010. Yet, Obama has failed in Rush's view?

I have said time and again: We did this the neoconservative, unchecked, free-market way and look where it got us. Let's try something else instead of trying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 2):
Any "Conservative" that tells others to shut up and allows only "loyal" people to be heard is un-American in my book.

Have you heard Coulter, Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, Larson?
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:39 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):


I have said time and again: We did this the neoconservative, unchecked, free-market way and look where it got us. Let's try something else instead of trying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.

Rush Limbaugh is neither a conservative nor a neoconservative nor is he anything else with a political ideology to it.

He is a loud-mouthed, attention-grabbing windbag. He's a dynamic public speaker and he is really good at getting people all riled up and angry and then using their emotional fervor to 1) make himself more visible and 2) make money.

Please do not dignify what he says as representing any philosophy; he hasn't put enough thought into his positions to have earned that.
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NIKV69
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:39 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 4):
I already answered this ine in another thread, but it bears repeating. No one gets to "keep what they earn" because in this world and country taxes are necessary. I for one think we need roads, police, a strong national defense, etc.

I never said we don't need taxes but there is a big difference between paying 20-30 percent towards infrastructure, law enforcement and the military and paying 40-50 percent for some pipe dream about national health care and big government that hates big business.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 4):
Because that's what he is. Have you seen him lately?

Yea he didn't seem angry to me, seemed to have passion. It's amazing how when Obama get's a crowd going it's inspiring but when someone from the other side gives a similiar speech it's hatred. So typical of the far left.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government ban abortion and gay marriage and sodomy?

Isn't abortion a state law? As is gay marriage? Has no revelance in this discussion.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government run a massive war on terror and a war on drugs (that has gone on for almost 50 years now without any progress on decreasing drug use or drug-related damages)?

I am all for the legalization of all drugs and prostitution. The money we have spent trying to stop it has been thrown out the window.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Seems like your "small government" is a government that seems to spend a lot of time passing rules and regulations about what adults can and cannot do, but doesn't spend any money on infrastructure, healthcare, or economic growth.

What adults can do and can not do is not governed by the fed, why do you keep brining that up? Prop 8 for example went to a vote of the people. They voted and spoke, the government didn't do anything. As for health care it is the democratic side that punishes businesses by continuing to tax them heavier and heavier till they just leave the country for a cheaper place to operate or cut employees compensation, usually healthcare. You want everyone to have health care, keep the bush tax cuts and give credits to companies that give employees health care. Would work much better than jacking up EVERYONE'S taxes to pay for it. Which has been tried for years and has failed.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
'm all for a small government, but not the way Limbaugh wants to do it.

Well great then we have huge inflation and debt to look forward to with no national health care and out of control spending. Can't wait.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream. " -RL

"If you commit a crime, you're guilty. " -RL (Like abusing prescription narcotics, Rush?)

He even called servicemembers who had served in Iraq and opposed the "war" there "phony soldiers."

"The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies." -RL

Would Reagan have trashed soldiers? Women? African Americans?

Funny how everyone wanted to make light of Rev Wrights comments which were much more inflammatory than Rush's. Also if you could provide the new's or video link for those above comments I would appreciate it. You do know the forum rules don't you?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
I have said time and again: We did this the neoconservative, unchecked, free-market way and look where it got us.

Whoa wait a minute, it wasn't free market that caused this. It was the irresponsibilities of the banks and people who ran up credit and bought houses with no money. The free market works just fine when people live within their means and pay their bills. I love how you lefties want to just forget how many years of prosperity and growth just because of this latest thing to further your far left Euro agenda. Thankfully it will fail.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:47 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
Thankfully it will fail.

I hope it will fail.

*prepares for flaming from yayhoos that don't care to read it in context.*
 
D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:49 pm

Predictable: I fully expected dittoheads to ignore the content of the article (which they might not even have read), and just rush to support Limbaugh. He's got you brainwashed, man!

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
leaving a carcass that is comprised of intolerance on every angle. Rush is the centerpiece of such intolerance.

Letting us keep what we earn and small government is intolerance?

Did you bother to read the next sentence before you wrote this? Rush is both intolerant to people who look different, AND he is intolerant to dissent even from Republicans. He is a one trick pony that wants everyone else to be one trick too. Extremely little of Rush's show is about small government. An awful lot about Rush's show is about intolerance - things like "WE have to get OUR country back from THEMMMM-muh." THEM is often Hispanics, blacks, women, poor people, etc. He's intolerant to people who AGREE with him, even, about policy. And every single show he's on a rant, showing off his anger. Any legitimate message he may have gets drowned out by his intolerance.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Everything Rush said is Reagan

Wrong. Reagan was never about anger and rage. Never. You're simply wrong.

Did you read the article?
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:01 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Please do not dignify what he says as representing any philosophy; he hasn't put enough thought into his positions to have earned that.

I'm actually fairly convinced that he doesn't have the mental acuity to put much thought into the positions he espouses. He was an amazingly bad student at the regional college in his home town. Yet the things he attempts to speak about are often extremely complex. He is not an economist, but he claims to have expertise. Talent on loan from God? I think God would have passed freshman algebra.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
Isn't abortion a state law? As is gay marriage? Has no revelance in this discussion.

Neither does MOST of what you've said on this thread as policy is actually quite irrelevant to my opening post and the article I gave you. Rush's problem is that his delivery and his intolerance turns off those who might be moved by his policy message.

In any event, much of what Rush believes in are state issues that he would like pushed at a national level. In 2005 he wrote:

I love being a conservative. ... We believe in individual liberty, limited government, capitalism, the rule of law, faith, a color-blind society and national security. We support school choice, enterprise zones, tax cuts, welfare reform, faith-based initiatives, political speech, homeowner rights and the war on terrorism.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/ac/?id=110007417

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
Whoa wait a minute, it wasn't free market that caused this. It was the irresponsibilities of the banks and people who ran up credit and bought houses with no money.

Well damn, dude! What the hell do you think the free market is?

[Edited 2009-03-11 13:08:10]
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:10 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
I love how you lefties want to just forget how many years of prosperity and growth just because of this latest thing to further your far left Euro agenda. Thankfully it will fail.

I think that sentence pretty much sums up the current Republican vibe: anything that does not fall under Rushbo's narrow platform is "far left" and "Euro" (whatever that means). Let's get something straight: "far left" applies to groups like Sendero Luminoso or the Cuban Communist Party. One could argue that a closet anti-Semite like Sean Hannity is "far-right", although he would of course deny it.

It's amazing how much latitude the Right gives itself.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
NIKV69
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:26 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
"WE have to get OUR country back from THEMMMM-muh." THEM is often Hispanics, blacks, women, poor people, etc

This is complete BS. He means the far left and their vision of big government, high taxes, weak military and trying to tell us what we can make and what we can't. He sees the writing on the wall and trust me he is just saying what many others are. He wants a country were people are encouraged to go out and succeed and not villified when they are rich. Your going to paint him as a racist? You better have some evidence besides your spin on what he said.

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Wrong. Reagan was never about anger and rage. Never. You're simply wrong.

Again neither is Rush, why is it only Obama can get up on a soapbox and rile up an crowd, do you see how pompous this is? Where was the outrage when Rev Wright said things that were clearly inflammatory?

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Did you read the article?

Yes I read the article. So what? David Frum has his right to his opinion. What just because a fellow conservative doesn't agree with Rush it's bible? I don't see every Democrat agreeing with Obama. Does that make it so?

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I'm actually fairly convinced that he doesn't have the mental acuity to put much thought into the positions he espouses. He was an amazingly bad student at the regional college in his home town. Yet the things he attempts to speak about are often extremely complex. He is not an economist, but he claims to have expertise. Talent on loan from God? I think God would have passed freshman algebra

Well there are plenty of others that disagree with you. In fact for the Obama administration to react the way they did seems to suggest they are scared of Rush. For good reason.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Neither does MOST of what you've said on this thread as policy is actually quite irrelevant to my opening post and the article I gave you. Rush's problem is that his delivery and his intolerance turns off those who might be moved by his policy message.

Of course since you have already painted him a hater and a racist with absolutely no evidence.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
In any event, much of what Rush believes in are state issues that he would like pushed at a national level.

Never happen.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Well damn, dude! What the hell do you think the free market is?

So your going to tell me that free market means you can sign a mortage with no money and when you default and the bank goes under beg the goverment to pass a stupid stimilus bill to bail them out and blame the fact the government doesn't control the banks? Ok, we are done here.
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D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enou

Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:52 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
This is complete BS. He means the far left and their vision of big government, high taxes, weak military and trying to tell us what we can make and what we can't.

Sometimes, but other times he is certainly skirting the line. He says things like "people in Harlem think that, and you know what kind of people live up there." Deny it if you want, but it would suggest a lot about YOU if you do.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Wrong. Reagan was never about anger and rage. Never. You're simply wrong.

Again neither is Rush

  
Seriously, Rush's whole shtick is about anger. The only time he isn't ranting is when he is mocking and being condescending. Face it dude, Rush is an a-hole, and he WANTS to be an a-hole. He WANTS to piss people off.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
why is it only Obama can get up on a soapbox and rile up an crowd, do you see how pompous this is?

I swear, you can't stand having your boy Rush get criticized so much that you always have to divert attention away to other people. Fair enough - tell me one time where Obama has been angry, where he has castigated a group of people, or where he has mocked people. If you can't tell the difference between Obama's delivery (which is more like Reagan) and Rush's delivery (which is more like a jerk), then I don't know what to tell you. You're being willfully blind.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
Where was the outrage when Rev Wright said things that were clearly inflammatory?

Um... the outrage was everywhere. It was all over the news, including those "liberally biased" outlets. Where were you?
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
Yes I read the article. So what? David Frum has his right to his opinion.

Well, this thread is about David Frum's article. Instead of this knee-jerk defense of Rush concerning things wholly unrelated to the article (which I'm not convinced you read), why don't you explain how Frum is wrong? Or do you agree with Frum that Limbaugh is bad for the Republican party?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
Well there are plenty of others that disagree with you. In fact for the Obama administration to react the way they did seems to suggest they are scared of Rush. For good reason.

Good answer...

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
So your going to tell me that free market means you can sign a mortage with no money and when you default and the bank goes under beg the goverment to pass a stupid stimilus bill to bail them out and blame the fact the government doesn't control the banks? Ok, we are done here.

You're being real obtuse with these straw man arguments, dude. You know good and well that's not what I said. The free market says that you can sign a mortgage with no money if there is someone willing to take a chance on you OR, you can sign a mortgage with no money if there is someone willing to sell that mortgage off to someone else who doesn't know that you're too risky. Yes, that's what the unregulated free market is - if you can convince someone to make the agreement, you get the agreement. Even if it's poisonous to you, to the other party, and to everyone around you.

My god man, you should know what the free market is before you defend its virtues. Laissez faire is what killed this economy.

Now, we've gone off on all your tangents. Do you care to comment on the actual topic? Tell us what you think of Frum telling your boy Limbaugh to stfu.

[Edited 2009-03-11 15:54:21]
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:40 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
I love how you lefties want to just forget how many years of prosperity and growth

What prosperity and growth? You mean the giant ponzi scheme of paper wealth that got blown to pieces the moment Lehman Brothers failed?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
your far left Euro agenda

Do you have only as much as the beginning of the faintest idea of what you mean by that, or its reality in the countries you so liberally lump?

What exactly does Ireland have in common with, say, Denmark? Besides low unemployment and high standards of living? Yet they have used diametrically opposite methods to get to where they are - some resorting to stronger government intervention in some economic areas, others by adopting a much more hands off approach to growth.

What does that tell you? Have you even as much as considered the possibility that perhaps, just maybe your binary, ignorant, xenophobic line of thinking is exactly what has been sinking your country for the better part of the last decade?

Do notions such as "discerning approach", "pragmatic solutions", "consensus building", or "inclusive politics" ring any bells to you?

For what it is worth, a few countries around the world with high government intervention and taxes have been keeping up with the US, if not outperforming it, in actual economic growth and development for the past 20 years (see Scandinavia, the Netherlands or Canada, as examples). Symetrically, a few countries around the world have been keeping up with the US in growth with low taxes and regulations for the past 20 years (see Australia, the UK, for examples).

So get off the ideological high horses and stop lumping countries and democratic choices that you obviously do not have a clue about.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:55 am

The best line Frum had in the article was that the GOP is trying to govern a nation that no longer exists.

Problem is, NIK, and other conservatives: this isn't the 1980's anymore. The nation has moved forward 30 years from that time period, and things are NOT what they used to be. What Reagan did as far as governing would probably not work today. Let alone, that what the GOP wants the nation to believe as his legacy is partly a bald-faced lie, like smaller government and fiscal frugality. In his 8 years, the government grew by leaps and bounds. In 8 years, he quadrupled a national debt that had taken 200 years to reach $1 Trillion!

If you look at the GOP now, it hasn't changed in years: they're angry (again) that the nation dared pick a Democrat to run the nation, and will do ANYTHING to derail said Democrat, by any means, honest or dishonest. They're angry that they nation has rejected (again) Trickle-down economics; governing by fear; ignoring science; hurting the enviornment; screwing up the economy.

You have "The Angries": people like Limbaugh, Hannity, Axis Annie, and a host of more minor national and local right-wing nutjobs who have no answers to our problems, except to spew venom at President Obama every chance they get. And, the sad thing is, the politicians in the GOP are genuflecting at their alter of hatred and anger, and APOLOGIZE to the talking heads when they critsize them.

This is all good news for Democrats, as the GOP seems hell-bent on burying themselves for another few election cycles, at least. But it isn't good for the nation, to have one of the major parties run by, almost literally, people who are basically entertainers, and not people who have to deal with public policy.

The GOP needs to get it's act together, or it will find itself on the outside looking in for a very long time.

One more point though: the Democrats HAVE to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (and Stenny Hoyer right behind them). Those three are just as bad as the Republicans, as they don't want to include any Republicans in anything. Especially Pelosi. I'd love to see Mr. Obama maneuver her out of that chair.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:15 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government ban abortion and gay marriage and sodomy?

It shouldn't, those should be States rights, yet a liberal court took the decision on abortion away from the States. Gay marriage and sodomy as well should be left to the States to decide since the Supreme Court had to invent lines in the Constitution to make it a federal matter.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government run a massive war on terror and a war on drugs (that has gone on for almost 50 years now without any progress on decreasing drug use or drug-related damages)?

Even a small federal government would be mandated to the common defense of the States as it is mandated in the Constitution that it do so. Let's see, we've been fighting a war on poverty for 50 years as well, how much progress have we made if you listen to the left?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government dictate that schools teach evolution and abstinence-only education?

This is actually something that should be left to the local school boards, not the federal government.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
He even called servicemembers who had served in Iraq and opposed the "war" there "phony soldiers."

Incorrect:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...092807/content/01125106.guest.html

"I want to illustrate something for you today, folks. I've done it before. I want to do it again. I call this the anatomy of a smear, and what this is is a great illustration of the liberals and the Democrat Party playbook for '08, which is underway now. The morning update on Wednesday dealt with a soldier, a fake, phony soldier by the name of Jesse MacBeth who never served in Iraq; he was never an Army Ranger. He was drummed out of the military in 44 days. He had his day in court; he never got the Purple Heart as he claimed, and he described all these war atrocities. He became a hero to the anti-war left. They love phony soldiers, and they prop 'em up. When it is demonstrated that they have been lying about things, then they just forget about it. There's no retraction; there's no apology; there's no, "Uh-oh, sorry." After doing that morning update on Wednesday, I got a phone call yesterday from somebody, we were talking about the troops, and this gentleman said something which you'll hear here in just a second, prompting me to reply "yeah, the phony soldiers."

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
I heard Rush say something today that makes me stop and ask: WTF? He said the Republicans have to get back back in power in 2010 because that is when the stimulus kicks in. Not even missing a breath, he said the stimulus is not working. Which is it?

Incorrect. He said that the GOP needs to regain power in 2010 because the majority of the stimulus spending kicks in in 2011. He then went on to say that so far the stimulus is not working which if the economic numbers are to believed, it's not. I have a problem with that as it takes longer than a couple of weeks for any program, no matter how many dollars it throws out, to have any effect that is reportable.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Problem is, NIK, and other conservatives: this isn't the 1980's anymore. The nation has moved forward 30 years from that time period, and things are NOT what they used to be. What Reagan did as far as governing would probably not work today.

Yet somehow going back to programs that failed in the 1930's is ok? Continuing programs that were started in the 1930's and 1960's that have proven to be more costly than ever imagined is ok? As I have said before, I have yet to hear anyone on the left say that the era of FDR is over.
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Falcon84
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:20 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Yet somehow going back to programs that failed in the 1930's is ok?

Some of them failed. Some succeeded. Ast least, unlike Hoover, FDR was willing to do anything to a) try and stop the Depression, and b) from seeing a revolution take place in this nation.

All we hear from conservatives right now is "don't do anything, don't put in any more regulation, and, oh, don't spend money (even thought we spent it like crazy under Bush)".

That won't get us out of this mess, either.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
us330
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:41 am

Screw debating whether or not you agree with rush, I've got a solution that will make everyone happy:
Place Ann Coulter, Keith Olbermann, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Al Franken in a sealed room with a limited supply of oxygen (throw in an additional outspoken, holier than thou liberal mouthpiece of your choice to even up the numbers--I just couldn't think of a third off the top of my head), lock the door, melt the key, and forget about them.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:42 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Some of them failed. Some succeeded. Ast least, unlike Hoover, FDR was willing to do anything to a) try and stop the Depression, and b) from seeing a revolution take place in this nation.

Perhaps a little research on your part on what programs got carried over under different names from the Hoover administration are in order.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/goldengate/sfeature/sf_30s.html

"Might the Thirties be considered a key era for engineering?
Well, actually, planning had begun on many of these projects before the 1930s, and some of this owes ironically to the vision of President Herbert Hoover. Historians now acknowledge his progressive inclinations, and his commitment to counter-cyclical planning and the belief that the nation ought to have a reservoir of big projects in the planning stages that could be executed when the time was right. Programs begun during the Hoover years, such as the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, were forerunners of the New Deal, and years later New Dealer Rexford Tugwell acknowledged that -- even though no one would say so at the time -- "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."


Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
All we hear from conservatives right now is "don't do anything, don't put in any more regulation, and, oh, don't spend money (even thought we spent it like crazy under Bush)".

So you too advocate that two wrongs make a right?


BTW, if Rush is to be believed his qume numbers in the rolling arbitron survey for Dec, Jan, and Feb. show a huge spike in listenership. He must be releshing the ongoing debate about him as it's certainly allowing his sales people to charge more for advertising on his program.

[Edited 2009-03-11 20:44:28]
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NIKV69
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
He even called servicemembers who had served in Iraq and opposed the "war" there "phony soldiers."

Incorrect:

Exactly, a mod should have deleted his entire post. Rules strictly say you have to post links to verfify quotes you are posting. He just threw out a bunch of propaganda with no basis whatsoever.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
One more point though: the Democrats HAVE to get rid of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (and Stenny Hoyer right behind them). Those three are just as bad as the Republicans, as they don't want to include any Republicans in anything. Especially Pelosi. I'd love to see Mr. Obama maneuver her out of that chair.

I will give her credit she has some direction (misguided as it is) and lays out her plans. Since Obama has been elected he has still been trying to depend on his speech giving skills and really has no idea what to do. This was proven with a market that was freefalling because neither Obama nor Geithner could tell us direclty what they were going to do to make sure the banks started lending. In fact it was that joke of a speech Geithner gave that started the slide and if it wasn't for Bernacke giving us some good news the other day the market would still be going south. Obama has no control of his party and no grasp on how to run this country suffice to say all he can do is jack up taxes, spend a ton and tell everyone in the middle east Bush sucked and he will respect and talk to them. Then when you have an different view you are full of hate and anger. It's laughable.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
This is all good news for Democrats, as the GOP seems hell-bent on burying themselves for another few election cycles, at least. But it isn't good for the nation, to have one of the major parties run by, almost literally, people who are basically entertainers, and not people who have to deal with public policy.

What are you talking about? Just because Rush stood up and said he didn't want this crap Obama is feeding us he is leading the GOP? The guy is a talk radio host, not a politician. Better yet he has the entire DNC scared to death because not only does he have a lot of followers but he has clearly pointed out the fact that Pelosi, Reid and Obama are ill equipped to run this country and the slick speeches, talking points, CNN propaganda and Jimmy Carter tactics aren't going to cut it anymore. We need leadership and positioning themeselves 180 degrees from the GOP isn't it.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:25 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
We need leadership and positioning themeselves 180 degrees from the GOP isn't it.

The same leadership that had a 23% approval rating? The same leadership that sent us on a 6-year boondoggle in Iraq and spent no money at home? That leadership?
-Doc Lightning-

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D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:47 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
He just threw out a bunch of propaganda with no basis whatsoever.

I'd be very careful about complaining about the application of that rule if I were you. For instance?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Since Obama has been elected he has still been trying to depend on his speech giving skills and really has no idea what to do.

Basis?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
In fact it was that joke of a speech Geithner gave that started the slide

Source?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Obama has no control of his party and no grasp on how to run this country

Propaganda?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
suffice to say all he can do is jack up taxes, spend a ton and tell everyone in the middle east Bush sucked and he will respect and talk to them.

Proof? (Especially considering _no one's_ taxes are going up right now.

So as I said, be careful.


Oh and another thing: are you actually ever going to respond to the topic of the thread, which is David Frum's admonishment of your boy Limbaugh, or are you going to keep spewing propaganda while dodging the question?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:15 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
In fact for the Obama administration to react the way they did seems to suggest they are scared of Rush.

And look how everyone is paying all this attention to Rush - a non-elected, self-employed radio host, accusing him to be the leader of a party that is not in power anyway, while they should be paying attention on how Obama and the Cengressional Dems are spending us to deficit/Debt levels unheard of outside of third-world africa. Talk about the Politics of Distraction!

Quoting D L X (Reply 23):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Since Obama has been elected he has still been trying to depend on his speech giving skills and really has no idea what to do.

Basis?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...roper-welcome-to-Gordon-Brown.html

Obama is finding out that it’s much easier to criticize from the campaign trail than it is to actually, you know, run a country.

Quoting D L X (Reply 23):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
In fact it was that joke of a speech Geithner gave that started the slide

Source?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2009/03/12/AR2009031200025.html

The economy runs on expectations. If the markets think the government will be good for the economy, they will rally, and if they think the government is clueless, they will drop, even if nothing has been done. Considering how far the markets have dropped since Obama was elected (and I would point out that all the bad news out of wall street, the mortgage meltdown etc were pretty much known before the election, so the market at that time would already have been discounted to take those issues into account at the time), I would argue that the decline since then is mostly because investors see that Obama's administration are clueless.

Even former supporters of Obama are having second thoughts, like Warren Buffet

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...bama_supporter_buffett_strong.html

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/20...cap-and-trade-is-a-regressive-tax/

Quoting D L X (Reply 23):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Obama has no control of his party and no grasp on how to run this country

Propaganda?

Appears to be true. Congressional democrats are in control, as evidenced by their having written the porkulus bill, the Omnibus, ignoring Obama's demands for restraint on earmarks, (and which Obama sheepishly signed the other day). It's all turning out as we feared last year - a president controlled by statist ideology and Pelosi/Reid in actual control.

Quoting D L X (Reply 23):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
suffice to say all he can do is jack up taxes, spend a ton and tell everyone in the middle east Bush sucked and he will respect and talk to them.

Proof? (Especially considering _no one's_ taxes are going up right now.

Doesn't matter. All you have to do is SAY you will raise taxes, and people will act as if you already did. Welcome to the economic world - one more piece of evidence that they don't know what they are doing.

The other day I started hearing a term to describe the Obama administration which I find very fitting: Amateurs On Parade.
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D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:30 pm

SO, NIKV needs Dreadnought to do his work for him now?

Hey Dreadnought, how about responding to the article posted in the OP. You read it right? I haven't heard a single conservative respond to it. Please do! I'm very curious as to your thoughts on it since NIKV seems to want to avoid discussing it.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/188279
 
baroque
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:41 pm

Wow, you guys really do love your politics if that is what this is. The thing that puzzles me is why you all traipsed off to Iraq to attack Saddam when obviously the real enemies were much much closer to home? But why bother to drag us with you?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:17 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 25):
Hey Dreadnought, how about responding to the article posted in the OP. You read it right? I haven't heard a single conservative respond to it. Please do! I'm very curious as to your thoughts on it since NIKV seems to want to avoid discussing it.

Ok, I will respond to it. It's irrelevant.

First of all, Frum is not a conservative. He's a neoconservative. I know that's a word that's been thrown around a lot by people who have no idea what it means. A neoconservative is essentially a big-government believer. Basically a democrat on many fiscal and economic issues, and aggressive on foreign policy, and sufficiently close to the religious wing of conservatism (called Theoconservatives or bible thumpers) to be devisive. Neoconservative is what Democrats and Obama want Republicans to be - because they are kinda all over the map and fairly devisive - which is exactly why they (Republicans) lost the plot and got themselves voted out.

That is why they are going after Rush. Rush is not a neoconservative. He is a conservative plain and simple. Conservatism believes:

1) Government will screw up everything it touches, so it should not handle anything except that which we absolutely cannot do without - i.e. military, roads, a basic safety net so that nobody starves on the street, schools, and enforcement of criminal, civil and contract law which allows people to go about their business without hurting or cheating others.

2) The US Declaration of Independance and Constitution were written by people who believed in exactly the same thing

3) They believe in the rule of law. If the Constitution or the law says something, that's the way it is. If you want to change the meaning of the Constitution or the law, you don't find a judge to do it, you pass a law or an amendment. Anything else (like the "living document" interpretations of the Constitution) results in a decreasing respect for the rule of law - when you can effectively change it by interpretation.

They believe that private citizens, when not overburdened with government restrictions on their ability to keep what they earn, will create wealth enough for themselves and their neighbors

Obama and the democrats understand that if Republicans reclaim this Conservatism, (and stay at arms' length from Theoconservatism), then people will throw out the democrats. So they attack Rush along with Neoconservatives, who dillusionally believe that their mishmash policy can actually win elections, after having been thrashed twice in a row. McCain was a Neoconservatives's wet dream.

Einstein once said, 'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.'
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:24 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 26):
The thing that puzzles me is why you all traipsed off to Iraq to attack Saddam when obviously the real enemies were much much closer to home?

You mean carpet-bombing Chicago and San Francisco?  Wink
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:45 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 25):
I haven't heard a single conservative respond to it



Quoting DXing (Reply 20):
BTW, if Rush is to be believed his qume numbers in the rolling arbitron survey for Dec, Jan, and Feb. show a huge spike in listenership. He must be releshing the ongoing debate about him as it's certainly allowing his sales people to charge more for advertising on his program.

From the article:

"On the one side, the president of the United States: soft-spoken and conciliatory, never angry, always invoking the recession and its victims. This president invokes the language of "responsibility,"

Some one remind how many campaign promises have gone up in smoke already. Responsible? In what way? Saying no to earmarks? Or just saying the bill is imperfect but hey that's life? If the left is going to bash Rush over principles, which they have every right to do, where is the even handedness? Not in this article.


How about how the two are described?

"He is physically honed and disciplined, his worst vice an occasional cigarette. He is at the same time an apparently devoted husband and father. Unsurprisingly, women voters trust and admire him."

"And for the leader of the Republicans? A man who is aggressive and bombastic, cutting and sarcastic, who dismisses the concerned citizens in network news focus groups as "losers." With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence"

No bias there right? Although the President said he was going to give up smoking, and hasn't. Disciplined? In what way? According to press reports Wednesday nights are party nights at the White House and not just beer and shots either. I guess when you reach the White House you are entitled to some things the little people aren't? At least Rush can say he "earned" the money he spends on entertainment. History of drug dependency? I seem to recall our President admitting to some dabbling in that type of behavior as well.

"and we have to find ways of assuring the public that he is just one Republican voice among many, and very far from the most important."

There are plenty of important elected republicans, ones that actually have the ability to help shape policy, but the press isn't interested in those folks. Why bother with them when they can so easily demonize conservatives of all stripes via Rush?


"Look at America's public-policy problems, look at voting trends, and it's inescapably obvious that the Republican Party needs to evolve. We need to put free-market health-care reform, not tax cuts, at the core of our economic message."

I continue to advocate that with statements like that our country is in peril. The old quote that democracies fail when the public realizes they control the treasury has never been so close to realization in our country than ever before.

"After Iraq, Katrina and Harriet Miers, Democrats surged to a five-to-three advantage on the competence and ethics questions. And that was before we put Sarah Palin on our national ticket."

Yet after all the incompetence we have seen over the past three years with the democrats in charge no advantage has been lost. You have to wonder at how the bias in reporting by the major new orginizations plays into that. Is there yet any public outrage at Speaker Pelosi's use of government jets? At Senator Reid's use of his office to help his lobbyist sons? Where is the outrage at the pork in the latest ominbus bill? Yes it only represents 1% of the total package but we were told by the democrats that earmarks would be done away with! There are tax cheats at the helm of our Treasury as well as Chair of the House Ways and Means committee. Yet no vicious attack stories on that by the major news networks. When was the last time that NBC, ABC, CBS, or MSNBC was critical of the President or Congress? Has Stephanopoulos, Gregory, Brokaw, Matthews, Daily, Olberman, or Maddox ever been critcal of the democratic led Congress or President Obama? Yet when Rush says he wants the Presidents policies to fail and he is repeatedly misquoted and hoisted on a petard. I wonder if this writer had been less critical in his piece if it would have received the attention that NewsWeek is giving it?

"Two months into 2009, President Obama and the Democratic Congress have already enacted into law the most ambitious liberal program since the mid-1960s. More, much more is to come. Through this burst of activism, the Republican Party has been flat on its back."

???? Republicans as one in the House voiced opposition to the stimulus bill and guess what, they were immediately pronounced "obstructionist" by the mainstream national press. That was predicted before the election by many, including me, and would have happened if the GOP members opposed something as mundane as declaring a day as National Dog Catcher Day.

"Decisions that will haunt American taxpayers for generations have been made with hardly a debate. The federal government will pay more of the cost for Medicaid, it will expand the SCHIP program for young children, it will borrow trillions of dollars to expand the national debt to levels unseen since WWII. To stem this onrush of disastrous improvisations, conservatives need every resource of mind and heart, every good argument, every creative alternative and every bit of compassionate sympathy for the distress that is pushing Americans in the wrong direction. Instead we are accepting the leadership of a man with an ego-driven agenda of his own, who looms largest when his causes fare worst."

So let me get this straight, Democrats push thru the agenda, in some cases not allowing any dissent from the opposition, or by excutive order, and some how Rush is to blame? That about ends any credibility this writer had.

"I'm a pretty conservative guy."

You'd have never have guessed it by this article. Where is promotion of smaller less intrusive government? Spending restraint? In other words "fiscal conservatism"? All I read here is a conservative bash. This guy is exactly what is wrong with the Republican party. Rather than get back to the ideals that President Reagan espoused, and which are still completely valid, he is suggesting that we somehow have to out democrat the democratic party and we just spent 8 years proving that won't happen.

The only fortunate part in this whole sorry mess, if you can call anything in this mess fortunate, is that after 12 years of spending most Americans will wake up an realize that the bank account is empty. It happened in 1980, 15 years after the Great Society programs were enacted, it will happen again after what ever you want to call this sorry period in our nations spending history. The only question is how difficult will it be to unravel the "entitlements" that have been enacted. Yes, we are in great peril of doing our selves in from within by our "I want it now" and "the government owes me" mentalities, but we still have time to recover. We will however, in a very short time, reach a point in which it is no longer an option of when will we unravel, but how will we do it. It's either that or we all work for the government and Lenin smiles a big smile.
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Aaron747
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:24 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
History of drug dependency? I seem to recall our President admitting to some dabbling in that type of behavior as well.

That's not even worth bringing up in comparison. A long dependency on medication not to be used outside the purposes intended is a far cry from the usual use of marijuana that a lot of us can attest went on for years through our university and career beginnings with absolutely no ill effects. Totally unfair charge. As far as lifestyle is concerned, Obama certainly has Rush beat for responsibly healthy living. What's ironic here is that Mr. Frum is something of an overweight drinker himself, by many accounts!

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
???? Republicans as one in the House voiced opposition to the stimulus bill and guess what, they were immediately pronounced "obstructionist" by the mainstream national press.

You seem to be missing what he's getting at when describing the GOP as on their backs. The national press is not the problem here - it's the lack of cohesion in the party to stand up for what they believe is right. The vote in Congress wasn't enough - the GOP has just witnessed one of the most effective campaigns in history and seemingly learned nothing from it. Where was the door to door campaign against the stimulus? The internet-based opposition funding drive? Where are those things now at a time when Americans need to be educated on an everyday, nonstop basis about the dangers of the new fiscal inroads we are undertaking?? Are they really going to leave that work to a self-promoting, non-committal opportunist with an audience of 25 million?? That is effectively what the party has done with its inaction. For the umpteenth time, they need to get their act together.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
So let me get this straight, Democrats push thru the agenda, in some cases not allowing any dissent from the opposition, or by excutive order, and some how Rush is to blame?

Not entirely to blame, but for his own purposes, he's not doing much to stop it. You can't knock the carrot without someone holding the stick on the other end, right? Sure, the media is taking notice every time Rush pipes up these days. Sure, the Obama administration themselves are acting like fools responding to him directly. But just as assuredly, Rush will not do what's right - and he will only say or do what will get the most calculated reaction, whether it actually helps the conservative cause or not. He goes to work, preaches to the choir, and doesn't lift a finger toward the other efforts that I mentioned above.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
It's either that or we all work for the government and Lenin smiles a big smile.

Fortunately, Lenin's long since dead, so there's no need for such hyperbolic histrionics.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
You have to wonder at how the bias in reporting by the major new orginizations plays into that. Is there yet any public outrage at Speaker Pelosi's use of government jets?

I'm a member of Taxpayers for Common Sense, and there's plenty of outrage in the current newsletter, which I can't post excerpts from here. Not to mention that I've seen articles about Pelosi's unapologetic abuse of her position's USAF privileges in more than five online news outlets since yesterday.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:47 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Yet after all the incompetence we have seen over the past three years with the democrats in charge no advantage has been lost.

Well, for two of those years, a republican president started vetoing bills and republican members of Congress stood in the way of bills presented by Democrats.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Where is the outrage at the pork in the latest ominbus bill?

Like 40% of those earmarks tacked on by republicans?

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Republicans as one in the House voiced opposition to the stimulus bill and guess what, they were immediately pronounced "obstructionist" by the mainstream national press. That was predicted before the election by many, including me, and would have happened if the GOP members opposed something as mundane as declaring a day as National Dog Catcher Day.

But, they decided, while the bill was still being decided on, to vote against it. Before anything even happened, they were against it. That is not obstrucitonist?

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
after 12 years of spending most Americans will wake up an realize that the bank account is empty

This time, it only took 6 years. Americans are wising up. Too bad republicans are not.

I heard something interesting on Hannity last night: two republicans are proposing oil and alternate fuel sources jobs be created in this country. They made it sound like no one ever had proposed this idea and they and the republican party should be praised because they came up with this idea all on their own. Throwing out phrases like "reduce dependance on foreign oil" and the like. But, I wonder, why that sounds so familiar?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
The free market works just fine when people live within their means and pay their bills.

Like all those CEOs who gave themselves billions in bonuses for handing out sub-prime mortages? It takes two to tango. If these CEOs and champions of the free market had lived within their means (denying mortgages to those that could not afford them), we would probably not be in this position.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
He is a loud-mouthed, attention-grabbing windbag.

I nearly swerved off the road when I heard him patting himself on the back for saying something like 33% of Americans think he (Rush) is doing a great job according to some poll and how that is a greater number than Congress and how he is just waiting for the day when his approval raiting is greater than that of the President. I just know that when the Arbitron raitings come out, he will use that as ammo to back himself as the greatest thing on radio since Marconi. Even if the estimate of 4 million listeners is true, not every single one of those 4 million is a bobble-head, nodding in agreement with him.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
windy95
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:51 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
An awful lot about Rush's show is about intolerance - things like "WE have to get OUR country back from THEMMMM-muh." THEM is often Hispanics, blacks, women, poor people, etc. He's intolerant to people who AGREE with him, even

The racism card with Rush is just flat out wrong.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I'm actually fairly convinced that he doesn't have the mental acuity to put much thought into the positions he espouses

And you do? Why do you not have your own show with 20+million listenerrs?

Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Does a small government ban abortion and gay marriage and sodomy?

It shouldn't, those should be States rights, yet a liberal court took the decision on abortion away from the States. Gay marriage and sodomy as well should be left to the States to decide since the Supreme Court had to invent lines in the Constitution to make it a federal matter.

 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 

Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Let's see, we've been fighting a war on poverty for 50 years as well, how much progress have we made if you listen to the left?

They always seem to leave that one out of the argument

Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
This is actually something that should be left to the local school boards, not the federal government.

 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 

Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
He even called servicemembers who had served in Iraq and opposed the "war" there "phony soldiers."

Incorrect:

Double incorrect. Another Rush quote taken out of context

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
FDR was willing to do anything to a) try and stop the Depression, and b) from seeing a revolution take place in this nation.

FDR was willing to do anything to keep himself in Power including buying votes. Sound familiar Mr Obama

Quoting Us330 (Reply 19):
Screw debating whether or not you agree with rush

It is funny how the left is infatuated with him. Why not just turn off the Radio. You see how Air America faired... Olberman, Matthews, Blitzer they all make me turn the channel. It is voting with your fingers and your dollar. All the left is now doing is making him even more popular

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
He's a neoconservative. I know that's a word that's been thrown around a lot by people who have no idea what it means. A neoconservative is essentially a big-government believer. Basically a democrat on many fiscal and economic issues, and aggressive on foreign policy

 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
No bias there right? Although the President said he was going to give up smoking, and hasn't. Disciplined? In what way?

Funny they hid that smoking habit during the campaign. Mr Perfect had yo hide his flaws to voted and and the willing accomplices in the MSM just helped him along.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:07 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):
You want everyone to have health care, keep the bush tax cuts and give credits to companies that give employees health care. Would work much better than jacking up EVERYONE'S taxes to pay for it. Which has been tried for years and has failed.

It worked in every other country.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):

Isn't abortion a state law? As is gay marriage? Has no revelance in this discussion.

Ever hear of all the Constitutional Amendments that get bandied around to try to ban abortion and gay marriage? Ever hear of DOMA? Federal laws.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:21 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
That's not even worth bringing up in comparison.

Sorry, but I disagree. If you are going to bring up the illegal use of drugs, quantity does not matter. Wrong is wrong. Yet while Rush gets villified, the Presidents use is treated with humor.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Obama certainly has Rush beat for responsibly healthy living.

As long as he continues to smoke cigarettes that's not a sure thing. I smoked for 23 years and have been smoke free for 10. I can say without a doubt that I am in better shape today as I approach 50 than I was as I approached 40. Limbaugh has had an up and down fight with weight, same as Oprah Winfrey yet where she gets sympathy, he gets mocked.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
The national press is not the problem here - it's the lack of cohesion in the party to stand up for what they believe is right.

I don't see how a unanimous republican vote in the House and all but 3 in the Senate can be construed as a lack of cohesion. What is important is that they did finally stand up for what's right and were instantly and ferociously villified for it by a willing and able leftist press.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
The vote in Congress wasn't enough - the GOP has just witnessed one of the most effective campaigns in history and seemingly learned nothing from it.

They learned that the national press by and large is in the tank for President Obama. Fair and balanced have no home now. The framers left open freedom of the press for one, among many, significant reason, as a check against all government wrongdoing. Now days most major networks are more than willing to give this President a pass. Where they decried President Bush for supposedly using fear of a terror attack as a way to get what he wanted in Iraq, they give a complete pass to President Obama using fear of depression to get what he wants, universal health care, as well as every other liberal program he can squeeze out using the current fiscal problems as a springboard by saying that those programs will some how help us out of the economic downturn.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Where was the door to door campaign against the stimulus?

Where was the time? Remember, according to the President, Congress was too slow in acting.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
He goes to work, preaches to the choir, and doesn't lift a finger toward the other efforts that I mentioned above.

Nor does he have to. He is representing his constituency and they vote by buying the products and services he advertises. I wonder how long the President would last if he had to sell his programs and philosopies in the same manner, day after day?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Fortunately, Lenin's long since dead, so there's no need for such hyperbolic histrionics.

Lenin may be dead, but the ideals he espoused live on in the leftist leanings of some of our most liberal democrats.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
I'm a member of Taxpayers for Common Sense, and there's plenty of outrage in the current newsletter, which I can't post excerpts from here.

A newsletter? How many people does it reach versus NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
Like 40% of those earmarks tacked on by republicans?

Yes, just like those 40%.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
But, they decided, while the bill was still being decided on, to vote against it. Before anything even happened, they were against it. That is not obstrucitonist?

The basics of the bill were already announced before they said they would vote, en masse, against it. The bipartisan meeting at the White House had occured, you know the one where they were told by the President "I won", before they came out against it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 31):
This time, it only took 6 years. Americans are wising up. Too bad republicans are not.

So you are claiming that obtuse and obscene over spending is not taking place under this administration? That the stimulus bill and the omnibus bill, and stimulus 2 which is taking shape along with tarp 2 are completely responsible and devoid of any pork or philosophical spending? That what it took a two front war and two entitlement programs 8 years to spend, which will be eclipsed in 20 months if the current administration has it way is responsible? You are actually claiming that that is somehow wising up?
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:24 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Ok, I will respond to it. It's irrelevant.

First of all, Frum is not a conservative.

Address the message. You haven't responded to the themes of the article at all. You've just stated a defense of conservative principles. Well, conservative principles are not what this argument is about, no matter how much NIKV wants to argue it. This is not about Obama, it's about Rush and the Republicans.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Some one remind how many campaign promises have gone up in smoke already.

This article isn't about Obama, it's about how Rush is bad for Republicans. Do you agree or disagree? Tell us.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
If the left is going to bash Rush over principles, which they have every right to do, where is the even handedness? Not in this article.

David Frum, former Bush-43 aide, is not the left. AND this article is not about conservative principles. Rush is being bashed from the right, and this time (so far at least), he is not apologizing.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
Why bother with them when they can so easily demonize conservatives of all stripes via Rush?

That's the point of the article, I think. Rush is the loudest voice amongst Republicans right now. That's hard to deny. Boehner tries, Cantor tries, Steele tries, but they simply do not have the pull that Rush has. That isn't the media's fault, so don't blame them (for this one).

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 32):
The racism card with Rush is just flat out wrong.

Actually, not it's dead on. Rush does not come straight out with it, but he absolutely does at least hint at it, by saying things like "the only people who like that idea live in Harlem. And you know what kind of people live in Harlem, don't you?" Yes, Windy, that's racist. And I heard it with my own ears while listening to his show.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 32):
And you do?

1) Yes. 2) This isn't about me, so don't make it personal.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 32):
Why do you not have your own show with 20+million listenerrs?

Having a show with 20+ million listeners does not mean you know what the hell you're talking about.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
"After Iraq, Katrina and Harriet Miers, Democrats surged to a five-to-three advantage on the competence and ethics questions. And that was before we put Sarah Palin on our national ticket."

Yet after all the incompetence we have seen over the past three years with the democrats in charge no advantage has been lost.

That doesn't matter! What matters and what Frum is talking about is that the Republican party at least APPEARS to promote its least competent to the highest positions as kickbacks for past loyalty. Again, instead of defending your own, you have to redirect over to the democrats. This isn't about the democrats! It's about how the Republican image has been completely destroyed. Democrats didn't destroy your image, YOU destroyed your image.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
So let me get this straight, Democrats push thru the agenda, in some cases not allowing any dissent from the opposition, or by excutive order, and some how Rush is to blame? That about ends any credibility this writer had.

Then you've missed the point. Democrats are able to push the agenda unchecked because Rush has helped destroy the image of the party such that there aren't enough Republican votes to do anything about it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
"I'm a pretty conservative guy."

You'd have never have guessed it by this article.

See, that's the predictable response I was waiting for. Anyone who ever disagrees with El Rushbo is immediately relabeled a liberal. You guys simply will not accept criticism from within. Ever.


HOWEVER, I greatly thank you for taking the time to respond to the article.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:44 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 26):
The thing that puzzles me is why you all traipsed off to Iraq to attack Saddam when obviously the real enemies were much much closer to home?

You mean carpet-bombing Chicago and San Francisco?

Seems like that is being planned at times.  Big grin  Big grin

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Fortunately, Lenin's long since dead, so there's no need for such hyperbolic histrionics.



Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Fortunately, Lenin's long since dead, so there's no need for such hyperbolic histrionics.

Lenin may be dead, but the ideals he espoused live on in the leftist leanings of some of our most liberal democrats.

Whaaaat? Try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninism

The theoretical basis was:
In his pamphlet What is to be Done? (1902), Lenin argued that the proletariat can only achieve a successful revolutionary consciousness through the efforts of a vanguard party composed of full-time professional revolutionaries. Lenin further believed that such a party could only achieve its aims through a form of disciplined organization known as democratic centralism, wherein tactical and ideological decisions are made with internal democracy, but once a decision has been made, all party members must externally support and actively promote that decision.

Leninism holds that capitalism can only be overthrown by revolutionary means; that is, any attempts to reform capitalism from within, such as Fabianism and non-revolutionary forms of democratic socialism, are doomed to fail. The goal of a Leninist party is to orchestrate the overthrow of the existing government by force and seize power on behalf of the proletariat and then implement a dictatorship of the proletariat. The party must then use the powers of government to educate the proletariat, so as to remove the various modes of false consciousness, such as religion and nationalism, the bourgeois have instilled in them in order to make them more docile and easier to exploit economically. Lenin's Bolshevik government was strongly hostile to Russian nationalism in particular, calling it "Great Russian chauvinism".[1]

The dictatorship of the proletariat is theoretically to be governed by a decentralized system of proletarian direct democracy, in which workers hold political power through local councils known as soviets (see soviet democracy). The extent to which the dictatorship of the proletariat is democratic is disputed. Lenin wrote in the fifth chapter of 'State & Revolution':

Democracy for the vast majority of the people, and suppression by force, i.e., exclusion from democracy, of the exploiters and oppressors of the people--this is the change democracy undergoes during the transition from capitalism to communism.


Which in practice included:
The elements of Leninism that include the notion of the disciplined revolutionary, the more dictatorial revolutionary state and of a war between the various social classes is often attributed to the influence of Nechayevschina and of the 19th century narodnik movement (of which Lenin's older brother was a member) - "The morals of [the Bolshevik] party owed as much to Nechayev as they did to Marx" writes historian Orlando Figes.[2] This would help explain the traces of class bigotry (e.g. Lenin's frequent description of the bourgeoisie as parasites, insects, leeches, bloodsuckers etc[3] and the creation of the GULAG system of concentration camps for former members of the bourgeois and kulak classes[4]) detectable in Leninism but foreign in Marxism.

In other words he was as opposed to Fabian ideals and socialism as it has evolved in Europe as he was to capitalism. Enough of this nonsense of suggesting equivalence DXing. I am sure Aaron already knows the difference, I included his quotes for completeness. On balance he probably hated the socialist leaning classes more than the capitalists.

And as for Obama being close to any left wing party I am familiar with, hoarse laugh. The nearest approach may be that he has realised that some socialist states have things a bit better organized than the US.

In response to suggestions that the government lacks the ability to organize a piss up in a brewery, you certainly should not leave important things like banks to be run by the government, much better to pick folk like Madoff to run those in the private sector and reef off another 50 billion. I am fully seized of the limitations of government. They could probably only lose less than 10 billions. No sort of a competition.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:49 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 29):
According to press reports Wednesday nights are party nights at the White House and not just beer and shots either.

Which press reports? The National Enquirer?
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:12 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
This article isn't about Obama, it's about how Rush is bad for Republicans. Do you agree or disagree? Tell us.

Do I agree the article is about how Rush is bad for republicans? Not with all the references to how in order to be better republicans we have to be more like the democratic party. I count at least seven direct references to how the republican party must become more like the democratic party to succeed which I reject. Is Limbaugh bad for the party? Is Pelosi bad for hers? Evidently not as she is the Speaker.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
David Frum, former Bush-43 aide, is not the left.

If you believe the Wikipedia bio on him you'd be hard pressed not to believe that.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
this article is not about conservative principles. Rush is being bashed from the right, and this time (so far at least), he is not apologizing.

Rush, in this article, is being bashed from a moderate at best, certainly not from someone on the right who starts off by saying he volunteered to campaign for President Reagan and then in the same article claims that some how those principles that Reagan espoused no longer apply.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
Boehner tries, Cantor tries, Steele tries, but they simply do not have the pull that Rush has. That isn't the media's fault, so don't blame them (for this one).

 redflag  The press could ignore Rush if they wished too but they don't. They could seek to interview Boehner, McConnell, and Steele but they don't. Why bother when it is, as I said, so easy to vilify Rush?

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
That doesn't matter!

Of course it matters as it demonstrates the main stream press bias. Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid brought the democrats to power on some simple promises, get the country out of Iraq, run an honest and scandal free hill, cut earmark spending. Of those three which have they been successful at? Which of those three have the press held their feet to the fire on? The author makes reference to how the democrats won back power yet after not doing what they promised to do if given another chance how much heat have they received?

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
Again, instead of defending your own, you have to redirect over to the democrats. This isn't about the democrats!

If you read the article is it. As I said there are at least 7 direct references to differences between the two.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
Democrats didn't destroy your image, YOU destroyed your image.

Agreed, what destroyed our image was trying to be like the democratic party.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
Then you've missed the point. Democrats are able to push the agenda unchecked because Rush has helped destroy the image of the party such that there aren't enough Republican votes to do anything about it.

That is incorrect, in the Senate you still have to bamboozle at least 3 republicans to get past the 60 votes needed to end debate. Yet when the tables were turned and there weren't enough democratic votes to stop anything in the House and democratic senators stood together to defeat legislation that was hailed as the loyal opposition doing what was expected of them as reported by the main stream press. Now its just obstructionism.

Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
See, that's the predictable response I was waiting for. Anyone who ever disagrees with El Rushbo is immediately relabeled a liberal. You guys simply will not accept criticism from within. Ever.

It's not that anyone disagreeing with Rush Limbaugh that is the problem. It is a left wing press promoting someone who in actuality is a moderate at best as a conservative that is the problem. I think Gov. Jindah accepted the criticism that has been leveled at republicans in his response after the Presidents speech before Congress. Of course rather than focus on what he said the majority of posters here, as well as the left wing media, just chose to make fun of the way, and of the setting, in which the response was delivered. The difference being that while republicans are willing to accept criticism, the democratic party as it exists today simply will not tolerate it. In that regard Rush is dead on and Frum is completely clueless.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:20 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
Which press reports? The National Enquirer?

http://www.buffalonews.com/185/story/602743.html

WASHINGTON—The White House is the place to be on Wednesdays. Since the presidency changed political hands, a burst of entertaining has taken hold of the iconic, white-columned home of America’s head of state. Much of it comes on Wednesdays.

That's an AP story by the way.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:24 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

No! Keep the Polish, umm circular firing squad going. A permanent GOP minority is good for the country.

The Democrats must have a token opposition just like the Harlem Globetrotters need the Washington Generals.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Quoting D L X (Reply 35):
David Frum, former Bush-43 aide, is not the left.

If you believe the Wikipedia bio on him you'd be hard pressed not to believe that.

This again is predictable. If they don't agree with Rush, they can't possibly be conservative.

But again, you are attacking the messenger, and not the message.

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
The press could ignore Rush if they wished too but they don't. They could seek to interview Boehner, McConnell, and Steele but they don't.

You're out of your head. Those guys are on television ALL the time, including on your so-called liberally biased outlets. But those guys don't have the pull of Limbaugh. Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners? Do you think that MSNBC even has 20 million viewers? In other words, those guys are pissing in the wind when it comes to competing against Limbaugh, the greatest source of wind the Republican party has ever given us. EVEN IF the media outside of Limbaugh himself (because as most Republicans choose to ignore, right wing radio is THE MEDIA too), even if they all ignored Limbaugh, he would still reach more people than those republicans on your list do. Rush has made himself the news with his bombastic comments, and the media would be failing at its job if they didn't report it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Agreed, what destroyed our image was trying to be like the democratic party.

Wrong. If that were the case, Republicans would not be electoral losers. You may hate their policies (which is not the subject of this discussion), but you simply cannot deny that they have a winning strategy. Republicans do not, and I believe a principle reason is Rush and his copycats.

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Yet when the tables were turned and there weren't enough democratic votes to stop anything in the House and democratic senators stood together to defeat legislation that was hailed as the loyal opposition doing what was expected of them as reported by the main stream press.

Deflect, distance, and dodge. Cry bias.

Look man, winners don't whine about the refs. Winners get out on the field and take care of their biz. Winners plan better. Winners work harder. Winners promote their best, not their biggest cheerleaders. Winners sometimes throw the first punch knowing it's the second punch that draws the flag. Winners do all these things, but WINNERS never whine about the damn refs.

Rush has brainwashed his followers to cry bias anytime something negative is reported about them. Did you ever stop and think that Americans are tired of whiners?

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
It is a left wing press promoting someone who in actuality is a moderate at best as a conservative that is the problem

Sigh. David Frum is not the left. The "left wing press" is not at issue in this discussion.

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
The difference being that while republicans are willing to accept criticism, the democratic party as it exists today simply will not tolerate it.

 rotfl 
That really made me laugh out loud.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:55 pm

The thing I don't get and is evident in this entire thread, is why the Republican's are not willing to CONSTRUCTIVELY talk within their ranks about where the party should be headed in the future? I mean Frum is a Republican, so am I, so is Steele, so is Bush, and so is Rush. They are all very different but all have relevant points to make and we do not have to castigate other voices so harshly. If we do so, then it is ridiculous to call ourselves one party. And that is something that the passionate posters here need to realize as it likely means irrelevance for quite awhile as things sort out since I do not see the Democrats splintering in the near term.

In many ways I wish the Republican's would split so we could be rid of so much of the social dogma crap that seems to have infected the party. It is obvious that the country prefers moderate leaders, as the both Demo's and Repub's have to espouse so level of moderation to get elected on a national scale. Whether they do it or not once in office is another story.

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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 42):
In many ways I wish the Republican's would split so we could be rid of so much of the social dogma crap that seems to have infected the party. It is obvious that the country prefers moderate leaders, as the both Demo's and Repub's have to espouse so level of moderation to get elected on a national scale. Whether they do it or not once in office is another story.

Hear hear!!

I think one half of the splintered group would have a very easy time getting elected to statewide offices, and perhaps even the Presidency. But even if they didn't have the Presidency (which they're simply not going to have in the party's current form for a long time), the moderate branch would have considerably more power not being beholden to the morality branch.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:09 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Agreed, what destroyed our image was trying to be like the democratic party.

Wrong. If that were the case, Republicans would not be electoral losers.

Sorry, but in the last election, they were 'Democrat Lite'. People will chose the real thing every time.

I want a conservative to run for president and conservatives in Congress. Not Neoconservatives (Dem Lite), not libertarians, not theoconservatives, just plain conservatives.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:24 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
I want a conservative to run for president and conservatives in Congress. Not Neoconservatives (Dem Lite), not libertarians, not theoconservatives, just plain conservatives.

You should start a thread on that, i.e. what defines a plain conservative.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:50 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
This again is predictable. If they don't agree with Rush, they can't possibly be conservative.

Or, if the beliefs they espouse, as Mr. Frum has done in this piece don't match up to convservative principles, they can't either.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
But again, you are attacking the messenger, and not the message.

I'm disagreeing with the messenger and his message. But then when someone does that the left comes up with that predictable line. That's because the left does it all time.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Those guys are on television ALL the time, including on your so-called liberally biased outlets.

Really, when was the last time that any of them were on the networks I listed save for sound bite inserts in reports done by a correspondent?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8987534/

Steele was on "This Week" a month ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...25/podcast_nation/main711465.shtml


Yep, All the time.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners?

No but then that's not their job is it?

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
but you simply cannot deny that they have a winning strategy.

Sure, based on deception and out right lies. The problem is, and it's already happening, when you win that way it isn't long before people see what you are really about. Cracks are already forming in the Obama mosaic. Meanwhile Rush celebrated 20 years on the air not too long ago.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Deflect, distance, and dodge. Cry bias.

Please.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Look man, winners don't whine about the refs.

But the fans do when it is so obvious that the refs are in the tank. There is a reason that poll after poll shows that most people believe network news people are biased.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Sigh. David Frum is not the left.

He certainly isn't the right.

He's perfectly within his rights to write the piece. I'm sure it helped out his blog numbers. He is also most assuredly wrong in almost all of his assumptions. Listening to him would not bring the conservative party any closer to regaining lost seats in the House and Senate. Getting back to the core principals of smaller government, less taxes, more responsible spending will. Fortunately, or unfortunately for the country, by the end of these 4 years Carter will more than likely look like a winner in the "who's the best President" of all time and you know what, unless he dies or befalls some other medical misfortune, Rush will still be on the air and a great trivia question will be "For 10 thousand dollars, who is David Frum?".

As to the uproar about Rush saying he wants the Presidents policies to fail...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150821,00.html

"REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: The president of the United States has not given us his full plan. But what we do know about some of its provisions, slash benefits and bankrupt the Social Security Trust Fund (search), then why should we put a plan in? We will go — our plan is to stop him from — stop him. He must be stopped."

So evidently when a Congresswoman, and that's all she was then, calls for the Presidents plans to fail, that's OK. But should a radio talk show host do so...well that's just beyond the pale right? BTW how much heat did she take for that comment? Or the subsequent ones that were even more pointed after she became Speaker? As I said, republicans can accept criticism, democratic party officials will not tolerate it i.e. the latest flap about the Speakers flying habits.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:07 pm



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 40):
The Democrats must have a token opposition

There is some truth to this .... it is a tough position to be in for us conservatives . Our basis is self motivation and prosperity .. without government taking 60% of what we make. How can we appose those who don't care about that? .... it is a true dilemma. If a new majority of Americans want big brother to manage there lives for them ... how do conservatives stand a chance.? In the past I believe conservatives had a majority in the country ... political events could "wake" them to vote.

Now I believe that has changed .. I believe more of our population is counting on the government funds for their future...and with the 20 million new "citizen's" about to be added ..token it is.
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:43 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Or, if the beliefs they espouse, as Mr. Frum has done in this piece don't match up to convservative principles, they can't either.

Rush and Frum agree on policy 95% of the time. You've lost that argument.

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
But then when someone does that the left comes up with that predictable line. That's because the left does it all time.

Come on dude, I'm not the left. I just find much to disagree with in Limbaugh. Here seems to be the main difference between liberals and conservatives - liberals are willing to have diversity of thought in their ranks, while conservatives really do believe that if you're not in step with Rush's beliefs, you're simply not a conservative. (And if you're not a conservative, you must be a liberal!)

Never mind that not all of Rush's beliefs are actually conservative. Conservatives have let him hijack their party.

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Really, when was the last time that any of them were on the networks I listed save for sound bite inserts in reports done by a correspondent?

I don't see any list of networks in your post, but suffice it to say, there are clips of them talking almost every day on the 3 main news channels, usually to the show's hosts. For crying out loud, Cantor was on State of the Union, and Steele was on freakin' DL Hughley's show! But it's not the media's obligation to make these guys speak, nor will they put them on the air if people aren't listening. If no one is listening to them, that's their fault, not the media's. If Republicans want to be in the news, they need to make news. Like Rush does. But be warned, if you make news in the way that Rush does, you will have more people hating you than liking you.

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners?

No but then that's not their job is it?

YES!!! If they want to be the leadership of the Republican party, yes they need to reach out to whomever will listen.

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Deflect, distance, and dodge. Cry bias.

Please.

Yes. You've been complaining about how your message is broken by the biased liberal media all over this thread. I mean, that's just a fact, dude! And as for deflection, case in point:

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
As to the uproar about Rush saying he wants the Presidents policies to fail...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150821,00.html

"REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: The president of the United States has not given us his full plan. But what we do know about some of its provisions, slash benefits and bankrupt the Social Security Trust Fund (search), then why should we put a plan in? We will go — our plan is to stop him from — stop him. He must be stopped."

So evidently when a Congresswoman, and that's all she was then, calls for the Presidents plans to fail, that's OK. But should a radio talk show host do so...well that's just beyond the pale right? BTW how much heat did she take for that comment? Or the subsequent ones that were even more pointed after she became Speaker? As I said, republicans can accept criticism, democratic party officials will not tolerate it i.e. the latest flap about the Speakers flying habits.

Winners don't whine about the refs.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:49 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Rush and Frum agree on policy 95% of the time. You've lost that argument.

Hardly. Given what he is espousing in the article less than 50% would be far more accurate.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Come on dude, I'm not the left.

That hardly changes what I said.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Never mind that not all of Rush's beliefs are actually conservative.

His fiscal beliefs are conservative and they are right on target.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
I don't see any list of networks in your post

I posted two links to the main networks main weekly news roundup/interview shows. ABC's is to gummed up to post but after reviewing it is apparent that of the three people you named, only Steele has been on any of the three of them and that was once, last month.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
but suffice it to say, there are clips of them talking almost every day on the 3 main news channels, usually to the show's hosts.

As I stated earlier outside of soundbite pieces used in correspondents reports the left wing media has no interest in interviewing them. My links are solid, lets see the links that show differently.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
For crying out loud, Cantor was on State of the Union, and Steele was on freakin' DL Hughley's show!

Technically it was not the "State of the Union" but aside from that you would expect on a night like that for him to be interviewed. What about the rest of the year? How many times in the links I provided were White House aids and Democratic Congressional leaders interviewed? Even when the democratic majority was in the minority prior to 2006 their leaders were sought out far more than the republicans are now.

Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
YES!!! If they want to be the leadership of the Republican party, yes they need to reach out to whomever will listen.

Not what you asked. You asked:

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners?

And I answered no which is correct since none of them have the speaking talent necessary to host a radio show as Rush Limbaugh does.

You've made two statements in this entire thread that sum up your position:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
I've utterly refused to say I was a Democrat or a Republican, but these days, I am getting more and more comfortable with the idea of declaring. The reason is simple: nearly all parts of the Republican party that I have agreed with have been expunged from the party, leaving a carcass that is comprised of intolerance on every angle.

Well now you don't have too as you've pretty much made your decision plain as day.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Deflect, distance, and dodge.

Which is what this whole episode has been about. Generated by the White House to deflect how things are quite going as planned in some areas while dodging the real issues of the day. The media would rather report on this than how the Presidents grand plan will now not save or create enough jobs to replace those lost. Nor do they want to talk about how the market has tanked since they took office, far more than it was doing in September and October when the crisis seemed to be at its peak and the TARP bill was passed. Nor do they want to discuss the harm the President caused talking down the economy and the markets day after day in the initial weeks after his election. They attempt to distance themselves from having to admit the President supported the TARP bill by saying "It's something we inherited" even though they campaigned for it. Nope, this is all media hype and nothing more. Rush is but one voice in the Republican party, nothing more nothing less. This article is just the latest attempt, written by a dissatisfied moderate, published by the left wing media to gin up a controversey to cover the fact that their elected leaders aren't doing quite the bang up job they promised.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 47):
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 40):
The Democrats must have a token opposition

There is some truth to this .... it is a tough position to be in for us conservatives . Our basis is self motivation and prosperity .. without government taking 60% of what we make. How can we appose those who don't care about that? .... it is a true dilemma. If a new majority of Americans want big brother to manage there lives for them ... how do conservatives stand a chance.? In the past I believe conservatives had a majority in the country ... political events could "wake" them to vote.

Now I believe that has changed .. I believe more of our population is counting on the government funds for their future...and with the 20 million new "citizen's" about to be added ..token it is.

Right on the money. Well said. The new majority are those that would rather "receive" than "create".
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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