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WunalaYann
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 21):
Rules strictly say you have to post links to verfify quotes you are posting. He just threw out a bunch of propaganda with no basis whatsoever.

 rotfl 

I am not dreaming. You posted that. Wow.
 
AGM100
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:48 pm

I had to go to our district school budget meeting last night . It was all the buzz due to the mega cuts coming to our schools budgets. Keep in mind we are one of the best districts in the Tucson area , a good middle to upper income level.

What I heard was just pathetic ... once again government proved they can not budget ..
they can not plan .. they can only spend. They have spent spent spent every dime they get every year during the good times ... now they have no plan except to cut cut cut . We are talking about millions and millions of dollars ... they are talking about cutting 15 million dollars just from our district! That's enough to run the whole system for a year if It was done right. What a joke.

Here me now ..., the same thing will happen with Uni health care . A year that they don't receive massive revenue ..they will have to cut . What are they going to cut out of health care .. ? You ? Government can not run anything right (military ok)... they take more taxes from us ..with the same results year after year . Frankly if I had there budget I could do a better job , and be twice as efficient.

You don't have to be a right winger to see these things ... but I hope our friends on the left start to understand that there actions have consequences .
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:49 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Why bother when it is, as I said, so easy to vilify Rush?

But, that is all the center and left have been hearing for years especially from Rush. Anyone against Rush needs to be voted out of office. Anyone against Rush is wrong to the core and has no relevant opinion. That is all that Rush and his minions have been saying. Now, he is getting a dose of it and he does not like the sound of it. Too bad!

Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
That the stimulus bill and the omnibus bill, and stimulus 2 which is taking shape along with tarp 2 are completely responsible and devoid of any pork or philosophical spending?

The omnibus bill, as I understand, is simply to keep the government running. However, as stated before by your king Rush, the bulk of the original stimulus bill will not even kick in until 2010. Stimulus 2 and Tarp 2 may not even pass, yet anyone center or left (read: against Rush) has to be crusified for those as well. On top of that, anyone center or left has to be blamed for the failure of America in general because of these bills even though the bulk of one of four has not even kicked in yet!


Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
You are actually claiming that that is somehow wising up?

Well, lets see: Spend spend spend for six years on failed education policy and failed foreign policy with no plan for repaying the debt. No plan for repaying all that money that went to military spending while, at the same time, being told education was so important. Now, fixing what was broken that was never broken in the first place is somehow wrong?

Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
The basics of the bill were already announced before they said they would vote, en masse, against it. The bipartisan meeting at the White House had occured, you know the one where they were told by the President "I won", before they came out against it.

So, either a bunch of people lied to the president or they were simply hypocrites.

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Do you think that MSNBC even has 20 million viewers?

Comcast in Portland carries MSNBC on digital cable. Anyone who has regular cable can not watch MSNBC. But, we certainly can watch FOX anytime, since they are on basic cable. I'm just sayin'....

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Even when the democratic majority was in the minority prior to 2006 their leaders were sought out far more than the republicans are now.

Maybe because there are so many on the right crying, screaming and gnasing their teeth over what the Dems do and trying to prop up the whole neo-con/republican agenda, an opposing view was needed. Maybe if more exposure were given to left wing talk, the republican agenda could, again, be advanced.

Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
when a Congresswoman, and that's all she was then, calls for the Presidents plans to fail, that's OK.

So, Pelosi was opposed to Bush gutting Social Security and that is the same thing as her wanting all of Bush's plans to fail? How? I did not see anywhere that said Pelosi wanted ALL of Bush's policies and plans to fail.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:25 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
So, Pelosi was opposed to Bush gutting Social Security and that is the same thing as her wanting all of Bush's plans to fail? How? I did not see anywhere that said Pelosi wanted ALL of Bush's policies and plans to fail.

Explain the difference with what Rush said.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:40 am

Here is the entire summation and reason why Rush is wrong (and no, I am not referring to statements of his):

Quote:
Every day, Rush Limbaugh reassures millions of core Republican voters that no change is needed: if people don't appreciate what we are saying, then say it louder. Isn't that what happened in 1994? Certainly this is a good approach for Rush himself. He claims 20 million listeners per week, and that suffices to make him a very wealthy man. And if another 100 million people cannot stand him, what does he care? What can they do to him other than ... not listen? It's not as if they can vote against him.

But they can vote against Republican candidates for Congress. They can vote against Republican nominees for president. And if we allow ourselves to be overidentified with somebody who earns his fortune by giving offense, they will vote against us.

Exactly, 20million listeners, big deal! To be sure, I don't have 20million people listening to me but then 20 million won't win you and election and it won't form a political party in this country, well at least one that will win. His job is to enrich himself and entertain his listeners, and he is doing an excellent job at that. And those here who agree with him, great! Good for you. Now do something for your party and ideals that will actually lead to election victory so we can actually affect smaller government, better fiscal policy, and less governmental intrusion.

And if you are going to argue that his 20 million strong audience is a swing vote, don't, there hasn't ever been a "Rush swing vote" group. That distinction belongs to real groups, like religious and racial and fundamental core belief issues (like sexual orientation and abortion and the like). And Rush can't play that big.

Republican's need to separate from Rush just like the Democratic party avoids being identified with one person like a Franken, Olbermann, or Maddow. They may wish they had a talk show host with the pull of Rush sometimes, but can you imagine if the ones I mentioned defined the party? They are all just voices that make up what the Democrats desire (or may desire), which is good for the Democrats.

Tugg
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:14 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
Yet while Rush gets villified, the Presidents use is treated with humor.

As I said, a lot of Americans of all political stripes can relate to the President's experience and look back on it fondly. Were I to have been a habitual abuser of prescription drugs, I'd be singing a different tune. Honestly, marijuana has a special place in the hearts of most Americans who became adults, dabbled in its highs and lows, and didn't have any problems with it - pun intended.

Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
Limbaugh has had an up and down fight with weight, same as Oprah Winfrey yet where she gets sympathy, he gets mocked.

Well I guess we can blame the media for that as well since there is virtually no sympathy in the American popular mind for the weight problems of middle-aged men.

Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
They learned that the national press by and large is in the tank for President Obama.

Be that as it may, the national press didn't do the incredible leg work that the tens of thousands of Obama campaign volunteers achieved with incredible competency and organization. I'm merely suggesting the GOP *badly* needs to take similar action. Even given the time constraints, give the right organizations a couple hundred million to work with and you'd have an effective anti-stimulus campaign ready to go in no time.

Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
Where was the time? Remember, according to the President, Congress was too slow in acting.

See above.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 51):
Government can not run anything right (military ok)... they take more taxes from us ..with the same results year after year

They can't even run the military right - the previous SecDef was a moron and we've had asinine 15+ year policy dictated by civilians with authority over the military to deny service to otherwise talented individuals on the basis of who they go to bed with. Don't get me started on wasted bids and no-benefit contracting.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:26 am

Maybe we just need to ask our conservative friends a simple question: Is Limbaugh, right now, the de-facto leader of the Party? A simple question, really. Can you tell us why he is or isn't?

In my mind, if all the politicians are apoligizing and deferring to him-even the RNC Chair, then I'd say the answer has to be "yes". And that, in my mind, is an awful thing for the GOP.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:02 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Anyone against Rush needs to be voted out of office.

Let's see, he bills himself as a conservative and you wonder why he wants to see liberals defeated at the ballot box?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Anyone against Rush is wrong to the core and has no relevant opinion.

See above.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Now, he is getting a dose of it and he does not like the sound of it. Too bad!

Too bad for liberals because I believe he's laughing all the way to the bank. The tale of the tape will be when the Jan-Mar arbitron book is released.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
The omnibus bill, as I understand, is simply to keep the government running.

And contained 8 billion in pork. Of course the President, when he was running for the office said he would go through these bills "line by line" and eliminate this type of pork but now that he is in office the bill is merely "imperfect".

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
However, as stated before by your king Rush, the bulk of the original stimulus bill will not even kick in until 2010.

The money has already been appropriated by law and as such, unless other legislation is passed, is spent.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Stimulus 2 and Tarp 2 may not even pass,

Yeah, sure.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Spend spend spend for six years on failed education policy and failed foreign policy with no plan for repaying the debt. No

So you too advocate the idea that two wrongs make a right?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
The basics of the bill were already announced before they said they would vote, en masse, against it. The bipartisan meeting at the White House had occured, you know the one where they were told by the President "I won", before they came out against it.

So, either a bunch of people lied to the president or they were simply hypocrites.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 52):
So, Pelosi was opposed to Bush gutting Social Security and that is the same thing as her wanting all of Bush's plans to fail? How? I did not see anywhere that said Pelosi wanted ALL of Bush's policies and plans to fail.

Add Iraq, stem cell research, and permanent tax cuts as three more and with a little digging I'm sure I can come up with even more.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 55):
As I said, a lot of Americans of all political stripes can relate to the President's experience and look back on it fondly.

So wrong is not necessarily wrong. It all depends on how you remember it? You're a father right? Good luck the fun begins.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 55):
Be that as it may, the national press didn't do the incredible leg work that the tens of thousands of Obama campaign volunteers achieved with incredible competency and organization.



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 55):
Quoting DXing (Reply 34):
Where was the time? Remember, according to the President, Congress was too slow in acting.

See above.

The bill was proposed and passes within the first 6 weeks of his administration. It was rammed through Congress with little dissent allowed. President Obama was running for office for 2 years. Again, where was the time?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 56):
Is Limbaugh, right now, the de-facto leader of the Party? A simple question, really. Can you tell us why he is or isn't?

No, he can not decide which candidates running for office get financial suppot and which don't. He cannot set party platform. He cannot propose or introduce legislation. He cannot hold hearings or issue subpoenas. He is a radio talk show host, nothing more. This is all a media blow up because they don't want to focus on how much money is going out the door in Washington D.C.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:14 am

I suggest a Rush and Sarah ticket next time. I cannot believe I said that, even in jest. Going upstairs for stomach medicine.  Smile
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:23 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 57):
It all depends on how you remember it? You're a father right? Good luck the fun begins.

As an adult, I've shared marijuana with my father, who is now a successful executive. I'll treat it no differently with my children than alcohol: use responsibly and enjoy at the appropriate times. Outside of that, there are consequences, as with anything, and I won't help if you make poor decisions about time and place.

Just as I'll have to discontinue even occasional recreational use for purposes of professional flying, we can safely assume the President has done the same. Past use is immaterial given the individual is a capable and responsible person.

Abuse of prescription drugs that are not to be used for purposes other than as prescribed? That's an altogether different thing called willful ignorance.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:28 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 59):

Abuse of prescription drugs that are not to be used for purposes other than as prescribed? That's an altogether different thing called willful ignorance.

It's not that. In my opinion, the use of ANY mind-altering substance in moderation in a safe setting while not putting others at risk is OK.

Rush wasn't doing that. He was dependent on the drugs. And at the same time the hypocrite was advocating the death penalty for drug abusers. The DEATH PENALTY. And yet I didn't see him hanging from any gallows.

But the ACLU sure ran to his rescue. And he took the help.

Rush is far worse than a windbag; he's a hypocrite. I hate those.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:57 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 60):
Rush is far worse than a windbag; he's a hypocrite. I hate those.

"Hypocricy is the only vice which cannot be forgiven" Hazlitt.
"At the entrance of a second person, hypocricy begins" Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Sounds like Rush to me, especially when he is on the air, which he is full of.
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:45 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 53):
Explain the difference with what Rush said.

Rush wants the president to fail period. Pelosi picks which policy she wants to oppose and/or speak out against.

Quoting DXing (Reply 57):
Of course the President, when he was running for the office said he would go through these bills "line by line" and eliminate this type of pork

But, the supreme court already ruled that a line item veto is above and beyond the power of the president. However, with the current court, I would guess a unitary executive would be able to have that power. Under Bush, he wanted, very strongly, a unitary executive branch. Instead of three co-equal branches of government (as proscribed in the Constitution), Bush wanted the executive to have more power than the other two branches.

Quoting DXing (Reply 57):
So you too advocate the idea that two wrongs make a right?

But, this is two different things. Trying to get the economy going after years of being trashed is completely different than spending for spendings sake.

Quoting DXing (Reply 57):
That makes no sense whatsoever.

What? That republicans stood with the President and made a show that looked like they were with him but were actually against him? Seems hypocritical to me.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 60):
But the ACLU sure ran to his rescue. And he took the help.

Darn liberal ACLU. How dare they. Hasn't Rush launched into diatribes against the ALCU with such venom yet they still rush to defend him?
 
AGM100
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:45 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 56):
Can you tell us why he is or isn't?

No he is a talk show host , Carvil set the plan up .. he was going to do the same thing when he worked for Clinton .. but Clinton would not let him. (according to Morris) Obama's crew went with it ... so now it is out there.

Its a desperate attempt by Carvil and Begalla to claw back into relevancy . Why are the Dems still campaigning. ? Guess that is about all they know how to do ... and spend our money...


I listen to Rush ,,, He does not really talk that much about social issues . Since I am more of a fiscal conservative .. I like his conservative ideas so I listen. He does not talk much about gay marriage , abortion etc. He does cover the legal issues surrounding those issues but really I don't here him make a big deal about them.

His show is more about political moves , and of course spending and functions of government. He beats up on politicians on the left ... and I love it. But Rush is not some right wing Puritan ... if you think he is then you don't listen and are talking out your arse.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:23 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 60):
And yet I didn't see him hanging from any gallows.

Which laws involving the distribution or use of illegal drugs was he convicted of?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/28/national/main1561324.shtml

Limbaugh, who pleaded not guilty Friday, has steadfastly denied doctor shopping. Black said the charge will be dismissed in 18 months if Limbaugh complies with court guidelines.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
But, the supreme court already ruled that a line item veto is above and beyond the power of the president.

That does not mean he can't veto the entire bill and send it back to Congress with notations as to which things he objects too.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
But, this is two different things.

Spending is spending. You and I may disagree on what it is being spent on but the money is still going out the door. I have steadfastly maintained for years that we are outspending the tax reciepts and will continue to do so.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
What? That republicans stood with the President and made a show that looked like they were with him but were actually against him? Seems hypocritical to me.

Just because you pose for a photo op does not mean there is any agreement. The UAW and car manufactuering execs pose for pictures all the time when they are about to start negotiations, think they are in agreement then?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:41 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 53):
Explain the difference with what Rush said.

Rush wants the president to fail period. Pelosi picks which policy she wants to oppose and/or speak out against.

There you go again. We've been discussing what Rush said for a month and you still don't know what he said (or won't admit it)

Let's refresh. Here is the original interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ETnzur7oVA

Now, explain again, what's the difference between what Pelosi said and what Rush said. How about throwing in James Carville (one of the architects of the current anti-Rush campaign), who said this (minutes before the 9/11 attacks)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/11/carville-wanted-bush-fail/

And how about a poll in 1996 where 51% of Dems wanted Bush to fail? Not his policies, but Bush himself and his administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/FOX_230_release_web.pdf
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:58 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
Pelosi picks which policy she wants to oppose and/or speak out against.

Actually, she opposes anything that isn't her brand of Democrat, but yeah, whatever. I don't think there's much picking going on in Team Pelosi other than which USAF aircraft she wants to waste taxpayer money traveling on.  Yeah sure

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
Trying to get the economy going

Again, increasing capital gains taxes helps the economy get going...how exactly?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
Darn liberal ACLU

The ACLU and Rush Limbaugh have one thing in common: they are opportunists that only go after what will bring them the most attention and media ink. The ACLU is highly inconsistent about actually doing what its charter would suggest its mission to be.
 
D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:45 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Never mind that not all of Rush's beliefs are actually conservative.

His fiscal beliefs are conservative and they are right on target.

Well at least you're willing to admit that he is not conservative on non-fiscal beliefs. That's a walk-back.

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
I posted two links to the main networks main weekly news roundup/interview shows. ABC's is to gummed up to post but after reviewing it is apparent that of the three people you named, only Steele has been on any of the three of them and that was once, last month.

I don't know what you're trying to prove by this distinction of clips versus sit-down interviews. Please explain.

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
For crying out loud, Cantor was on State of the Union, and Steele was on freakin' DL Hughley's show!

Technically it was not the "State of the Union" but aside from that you would expect on a night like that for him to be interviewed.

I think you misunderstood me. "State of the Union" is CNN's new Meet the Press type show. (I agree, it's a stupid, confusing name for the show.)

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
YES!!! If they want to be the leadership of the Republican party, yes they need to reach out to whomever will listen.

Not what you asked.

Huh? I'm answering the question that YOU asked.

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Well now you don't have too as you've pretty much made your decision plain as day.

Well, David Frum knows what needs to happen to make me change my mind.

Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Deflect, distance, and dodge.

Which is what this whole episode has been about. Generated by the White House

 redflag 

No dude. I was calling you out for always changing the subject. Just like this time.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:22 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):

Darn liberal ACLU. How dare they. Hasn't Rush launched into diatribes against the ALCU with such venom yet they still rush to defend him?

Yup. And I'm sure they were chuckling to themselves all the way. The irony was beautiful

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 66):

The ACLU and Rush Limbaugh have one thing in common: they are opportunists that only go after what will bring them the most attention and media ink. The ACLU is highly inconsistent about actually doing what its charter would suggest its mission to be.

I agree that the ACLU is inconsistent, but it seems to be more an issue of funding than ideology. Rush Limbaugh is consistent. I have to hand him that. He's consistently hypocritical, loudmouthed, and obnoxious. And I don't think I've ever heard of him apologizing for saying something completely inappropriate.

He sticks to his guns, I'll give him that.
 
N867DA
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:44 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 57):
Too bad for liberals because I believe he's laughing all the way to the bank. The tale of the tape will be when the Jan-Mar arbitron book is released.

How does this help the conservative cause? As a Democratic voter, I refuse to be convinced to switch my vote next election by someone who takes every possible opportunity to insult my intelligence and ideology. I've listened to Hannity, Boortz, Savage, and some Limbaugh. I've read Coulter. The underlying message is, "You're a stupid idiot, you dumbass liberal. Now go vote Republican!  Smile ". Talk radio does not exist to promote political discussion or thought. Talk radio exists to line the pockets of the host, producers, and radio stations.

Rush Limbaugh doesn't help the Republican party at all, and frankly he probably does a great disservice to conservatism.
 
D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:57 pm



Quoting N867DA (Reply 69):
Rush Limbaugh doesn't help the Republican party at all, and frankly he probably does a great disservice to conservatism.

Great post.

But I'll tell you, as a Democratic voter, Rush and his copycats will say "we don't need you. You're an idiot." Well earth to Limbaugh: if you want your policies in place, you need N867DA and any other voter you can get. And as Frum says, voters like N867DA aren't going to vote for Republicans as long as Rush is the face of the party.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:30 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 67):
Well at least you're willing to admit that he is not conservative on non-fiscal beliefs. That's a walk-back.

I could care less about his social views, as I don't really care about anyone elses.

Quoting D L X (Reply 67):
I think you misunderstood me. "State of the Union" is CNN's new Meet the Press type show. (I agree, it's a stupid, confusing name for the show.)

Guess that gives us an idea of its fan base. Maybe if Steele had mentioned on another show that when he had been on State of the Union......

Quoting D L X (Reply 67):
Huh? I'm answering the question that YOU asked.



Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
The press could ignore Rush if they wished too but they don't. They could seek to interview Boehner, McConnell, and Steele but they don't.

You're out of your head. Those guys are on television ALL the time, including on your so-called liberally biased outlets. But those guys don't have the pull of Limbaugh. Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners?



Quoting D L X (Reply 48):
Quoting DXing (Reply 46):
Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
Be honest: do you think that any of those guys could have an audience of 20 Million listeners?

No but then that's not their job is it?

YES!!! If they want to be the leadership of the Republican party, yes they need to reach out to whomever will listen.



I'm pretty sure you got that backwards. You asked, I answered. You asked if they could have an audience of 20 mil. I said no, that's not their job and you went off on a tangent.

Quoting D L X (Reply 67):
Well, David Frum knows what needs to happen to make me change my mind.

Then you need to stay right where you are at because Frum is headed in your direction.

Quoting D L X (Reply 67):
No dude. I was calling you out for always changing the subject. Just like this time.

Ok, we're done here.

Quoting D L X (Reply 25):



Quoting DXing (Reply 29):

You asked I answered and have been answering your questions ever since and now you say I'm changing the subject. The article contained several comparitives but for some reason those can't be part of any response because you are locked on the title of the article, not its substance. Fair enough but if details in the article aren't aviable to use in response to your questions then that tells me you aren't really interested in discussing the contents of the article, just the title and I've done that several times. No need to waste any more time on that.
 
D L X
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:31 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 71):
I could care less about his social views, as I don't really care about anyone elses.

Well you should care, because other republicans have been shown to take their marching orders from Rush. These social views could be imposed on you if Rush got his way.

Quoting DXing (Reply 71):
Guess that gives us an idea of its fan base. Maybe if Steele had mentioned on another show that when he had been on State of the Union......

Because YOU don't know the show? I don't think that you would argue that you are the barometer of America in terms of judging popularity so I'm going to give you pre-credit for that. Besides, it's a brand new show. Of course it's not as well known yet.

Quoting DXing (Reply 71):
You asked, I answered. You asked if they could have an audience of 20 mil. I said no, that's not their job and you went off on a tangent.

You answered my question, yes, then you asked another one, which I answered. This line of argument is silly...

Quoting DXing (Reply 71):
You asked I answered and have been answering your questions ever since and now you say I'm changing the subject.

Now, I praised you for answering the topic as a whole earlier. But in this particular instance, you deflected the conversation away from the issue. Going into the white house stuff and the liberal media bias stuff is simply not relevant.

Quoting DXing (Reply 71):
Fair enough but if details in the article aren't aviable to use in response to your questions then that tells me you aren't really interested in discussing the contents of the article, just the title and I've done that several times.

maybe I have missed something. Which details (in reply 49) are you referencing from the article?
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 65):
There you go again. We've been discussing what Rush said for a month and you still don't know what he said (or won't admit it)

Actually, I have just been going off of the rants I have been hearing on his show ad nausium over the past few months. I should have pointed that out in the beginning.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 65):
Now, explain again, what's the difference between what Pelosi said and what Rush said.

Well, what Pelosi said in the quoted article has to do with Bush's Social Security "reform." She did not agree with the way Bush wanted to do it. Also, Pelosi is a member of Congress, not a talk show host. Her opinion carries more weight than his. IMO, it would do much more if people would write or call her than some voice on the radio.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 65):
And how about a poll in 1996 where 51% of Dems wanted Bush to fail? Not his policies, but Bush himself and his administration.

Wow. Thanks for the history refresher. I had no idea Bush was in power in 1996! Not only that, but a poll that is 12 or 13 years old? Really?

Quoting DXing (Reply 64):
That does not mean he can't veto the entire bill and send it back to Congress with notations as to which things he objects too.

And he would have caught hell for that, too. The only way of pleasing people on the right, it seems, is to have only those who say they are Regan republicans in power.

Quoting DXing (Reply 64):
Spending is spending. You and I may disagree on what it is being spent on but the money is still going out the door. I have steadfastly maintained for years that we are outspending the tax reciepts and will continue to do so.

So, Americans are failing because of some unchecked systems. Also, because of out of control spending approved by a republican president, the debt is outrageous. That debt needs to be paid. Schools need to be funded. Roads need to be repaired. Military needs to be funded. Things need to get done. A spending orgy is bad, but, I think spending on domestic programs makes a hell of a lot more sense than spending on foreign military operations.

Quoting DXing (Reply 64):
Just because you pose for a photo op does not mean there is any agreement.

I know. Party before country.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:17 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 62):
What? That republicans stood with the President and made a show that looked like they were with him but were actually against him? Seems hypocritical to me.



Quoting DXing (Reply 64):
That does not mean he can't veto the entire bill and send it back to Congress with notations as to which things he objects too.

This is one of the biggest problems that we Republicans are suffering from now. While there were pockets of discontent (count me in that) the overall voice of the party defended the policies and programs that were enacted during the last eight years and did not openly engage then President Bush on the fact that he should have vetoed most of the budgets that were sent to his desk and did not castigate the Congressional Republicans that crafted and allowed these bills to proceed. For whatever reason President Bush did not lead his party, our Congressional leaders did not lead, and people who profess to be conservative did not rebuke all of them, did not take control of their own party when we had the chance when we were in the majority and in power for eight years! And now Republicans think that their saying these things now when they are in the minority carries any legitimacy?

Where was it.....

Quoting DXing (Reply 38):
Yet when the tables were turned and there weren't enough democratic votes to stop anything in the House and democratic senators stood together to defeat legislation that was hailed as the loyal opposition doing what was expected of them as reported by the main stream press. Now its just obstructionism.



Quoting DXing (Reply 49):
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 47):
Quoting Confuscius (Reply 40):
The Democrats must have a token opposition

There is some truth to this .... it is a tough position to be in for us conservatives . Our basis is self motivation and prosperity .. without government taking 60% of what we make. How can we appose those who don't care about that? .... it is a true dilemma. If a new majority of Americans want big brother to manage there lives for them ... how do conservatives stand a chance.? In the past I believe conservatives had a majority in the country ... political events could "wake" them to vote.

Now I believe that has changed .. I believe more of our population is counting on the government funds for their future...and with the 20 million new "citizen's" about to be added ..token it is.

Right on the money. Well said. The new majority are those that would rather "receive" than "create".

This is CRAP!!! We needed to enforce fiscal discipline when we had the friggin' power! Now we are just freekin' whining and saying what should be done, when the truth is we, the party that we currently are, didn't do a gad damn thing to not over-freekin'-spend! How many of the "pork projects" in the current and past budget bills are/were Republican sponsored? We're supposed to be appreciated for being "loyal opposition"? And we think we have ANY legitimacy NOW?

Dammit, let go of it, let go of useless party baggage and reform the Republican party to actually get back in power and then move an agenda that is true to the true Republican fiscal conservative ideals! Fiscal conservatism is a good and vitally needed idea but its starts at home with the people that espouse it as a policy. Don't whine now, didn't support shutting up voices that bring moderation to our party, that bring voters to our party! Don't support show hosts who don't get that their "ugly" and "incendiary" comment do harm to the party they profess to speak for! Do something USEFUL, get elected! Save our, hell, save MY money, save our children's country, save the Republican party!

Tugg
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:30 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 74):
Dammit, let go of it, let go of useless party baggage and reform the Republican party to actually get back in power and then move an agenda that is true to the true Republican fiscal conservative ideals! Fiscal conservatism is a good and vitally needed idea but its starts at home with the people that espouse it as a policy. Don't whine now, didn't support shutting up voices that bring moderation to our party, that bring voters to our party! Don't support show hosts who don't get that their "ugly" and "incendiary" comment do harm to the party they profess to speak for! Do something USEFUL, get elected!

Well said!

I rarely do this publicly, but welcome to my RU list. I'm sure you and I will differ on policy frequently, but I can certainly appreciate someone who is pragmatic (and dare I say it, patriotic) before partisan.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:42 pm

I am more concerned about the people who so vehemently support him.

Do we have so many hateful, arrogant, prideful people in the country who think that this sort of behavior is appropriate for a grown man? Let alone respectable?
 
AGM100
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:04 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 74):
This is CRAP!!!

If its CRAP then why reply ? Its not and I did not mention republicans ..did I ? I have for the most part lost faith in the "Republican party " .. at least as it is now.

I will vote for whatever party gets back to cutting costs , cutting useless entitlement programs and getting the fed out of every vein of our lives.

Denying that a major voter block for democrats are those who listen to the promises of goodies and support them is ridiculous. The first politician that comes out and say's ... We can not do this for you .. We can not save you ...We can not pay for your house..We can not educate your kid.. THAT'S YOUR JOB ... will get my vote.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 74):
Dammit, let go of it, let go of useless party baggage and reform the Republican party to actually get back in power and then move an agenda that is true to the true Republican fiscal conservative ideals

Right ... so a fiscal conservative comes out on the campaign like say Ron Paul. How long will it be until he gets stuffed in the social agenda grinder. Abortion , gay rights , illegal immigration ... the Dems will never vote for pro lifer ... no matter how fiscaly conservative they are. The same can be said for soc. conservatives ... they will not vote for a pro abortion candidate... no matter what they promise.
Personly speaking .. I am one who may vote for a canditate not aligned with my social ideals ..if they were fiscal cons. But no candidate will ever be able to solidify a base on finacial issues only. So ... what is to be done?

I still recall the Dems beating up on Guliani... a good fiscal conservative who is less conservative on social issues. The dems and soc cons roasted him ... spit him out and picked a junior senator with a far left voting recored .
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:22 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 76):
Do we have so many hateful, arrogant, prideful people in the country who think that this sort of behavior is appropriate for a grown man? Let alone respectable?

We have a lot of people in this country that have very hateful, arrogant and prideful thoughts that they keep to themselves and maybe even feel a little guilty about, but when they hear this gasbag on the radio, it enables them and reinforces it.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 77):
I still recall the Dems beating up on Guliani... a good fiscal conservative who is less conservative on social issues.

Dude, republicans are the ones that beat up on Giuliani... and that's why they didn't vote for him.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:23 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 77):

I will vote for whatever party gets back to cutting costs , cutting useless entitlement programs and getting the fed out of every vein of our lives.

I don't care about cost cutting. I care about EFFECTIVE use of money. Yes, we do need to invest in our infrastructure and healthcare. Yes, we do need to have a social safety net.

But the big problem with, say, welfare is that it simply entitles people to live on welfare and SSI for life.

We need to stop rewarding people for having kids, first off. In fact, I'd support a law stipulating that any woman seeking welfare must submit to a semipermanent (or permanent if she likes) form of birth control. Either an IUD, a progesterone implant, or something. Sorry, you can have all the kids you like, BUT NOT ON MY DIME.

I'd also support a law stipulating that any parent under 18 is automatically unfit to be a parent and the child will be removed. That'll make teen pregnancy rates plummet. Believe me, I deal with teen pregnancy every day at work. I mean 99 out of 100 days, I deal with a pregnant, possibly pregnant, or recently pregnant teenager. I firmly believe that one of the reasons the welfare rolls are so huge is due to teen pregnancy. A child born to a 15yo mother is a guaranteed life-long welfare recipient. Like about 98% of the time.

But that's a different discussion. Rush Limbaugh isn't interested in offering solutions. He's interested in windbagging. And we as a country have no use for that.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:59 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 78):
Dude, republicans are the ones that beat up on Giuliani... and that's why they didn't vote for him

100% Correct ... It was very discouraging to me. I mentioned both sides of ideological dived.... Dude.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 79):
Believe me, I deal with teen pregnancy every day at work. I mean 99 out of 100 days, I deal with a pregnant, possibly pregnant, or recently pregnant teenager.

Man that has got to be depressing Doc .. they just don't understand how destructive it is do they? Sad

If the kid does not have insurance ..do you bill Medicare for there services ? How much must it cost us just taking care of these poor kids..

In my world, the parent ( or gaurdian )would be on the hook... I know its tough but if we want to social engineer .. lets do it by making people become more responsible , not dependent .
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 79):
We need to stop rewarding people for having kids, first off. In fact, I'd support a law stipulating that any woman seeking welfare must submit to a semipermanent (or permanent if she likes) form of birth control. Either an IUD, a progesterone implant, or something. Sorry, you can have all the kids you like, BUT NOT ON MY DIME.

I agree

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 79):
I'd also support a law stipulating that any parent under 18 is automatically unfit to be a parent and the child will be removed. That'll make teen pregnancy rates plummet. Believe me, I deal with teen pregnancy every day at work. I mean 99 out of 100 days, I deal with a pregnant, possibly pregnant, or recently pregnant teenager. I firmly believe that one of the reasons the welfare rolls are so huge is due to teen pregnancy. A child born to a 15yo mother is a guaranteed life-long welfare recipient. Like about 98% of the time.

Agree too. You do know that the Welfare reform act of the 1996 went at least partways towards these kind of reforms, and has been quite successful. It was so successful in getting people off of welfare that Obama and the Democrats essentially abolished all the provisions of the Act, buried within the Porkulus bill. Can't have so many people getting off welfare and working - they might become (gasp!) republicans.

The Welfare reform of 1996 eliminated Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) subsidies to states that increased with each child (as you described) - an incentive for both states and welfare recipiants to have more babies. It was replaced with Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), which provided no such incentives, and instead gave incentives for reducing dependency and getting back into the workforce.

The Porkulus bill overturns the fiscal foundation of welfare reform and restore an AFDC-style funding system. For the first time since 1996, the federal government would begin paying states bonuses to increase their welfare caseloads. Indeed, the new welfare system created by the stimulus bills is actually worse than the old AFDC program because it rewards the states more heavily to increase their caseloads.

The excuse was that TANF could not deal with the recession. But it weathered the last recession just fine, and there was a $2 billion contingency fund already in place in case of hightened unemployment. Instead of simply shoring up the contingency, the Democrats trashed the whole system to bring back AFDC. Means-tested Welfare payments are due to go up by more than 20 percent, rising from $491 billion in FY 2008 to $601 billion in FY 2009. This one-year explosion in welfare spending would be, by far, the largest in U.S. history. But spending will continue to rise even further in future years. History shows that such programs renew themselves and expand forever, unless you have a tough congress willing to face the inevitable charges of racism and class warfare, as it did under Newt Gingrich.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 79):
But that's a different discussion. Rush Limbaugh isn't interested in offering solutions. He's interested in windbagging. And we as a country have no use for that.

Boy, you were doing so well, and then you have to get silly again.
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 81):
Boy, you were doing so well, and then you have to get silly again.

I fail to see what is silly about Doc putting Limbaugh's opinions (or what he professess are his opinions) in the perspective of Doc's own, day-to-day dealings with some of America's most pressing needs.

Take a chill pill and move on.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:47 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
And he would have caught hell for that, too.

From whom? His own party members? Certainly not from the republicans who felt the bill was too large to begin with.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
That debt needs to be paid.

Instead the debt is being increased, as a matter of fact doubled in the first 20 months of President Obama's administration.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
Schools need to be funded

That is (or should be) a local and State issue.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
Roads need to be repaired.

A State issue unless it involves the Federal Interstate Highway System.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
Military needs to be funded.

Well you've finally managed to touch on the one area that the Constitution mandates that the federal government spend money on.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
Things need to get done.

That's what private industry and private charities are for. The federal government should only be writing checks in the case of natural disasters and emergency situations.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
A spending orgy is bad, but, I think spending on domestic programs makes a hell of a lot more sense than spending on foreign military operations.

Again, people can differ on what funds are spent on but at this point, we are spending money we don't have and haven't had for quite some time.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
I know. Party before country.

That is the dumbest line and means nothing when you examine the contents of the stimulus bill.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 79):
But that's a different discussion. Rush Limbaugh isn't interested in offering solutions. He's interested in windbagging. And we as a country have no use for that.

So the first amendment is only guaranteed when you think it should be?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 81):
History shows that such programs renew themselves and expand forever, unless you have a tough congress willing to face the inevitable charges of racism and class warfare, as it did under Newt Gingrich.

Yep, those are the kind of republicans we need to run for office again. Of course they will be villified by the press as you described.
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:37 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
we are spending money we don't have and haven't had for quite some time

And why is that? Who made that possible? No, wait... let me guess: Clinton and the Democrats, in some twisted way.

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
From whom? His own party members? Certainly not from the republicans who felt the bill was too large to begin with.

No, the republicans would have been whining and carrying on about "do something so our country does not fail!"

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
Instead the debt is being increased, as a matter of fact doubled in the first 20 months of President Obama's administration.

Really? Did I miss something? He was inagurated in January 2009. My calender says it is currently March 2009.

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
That is (or should be) a local and State issue.

No Child Left Behind?

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
A State issue unless it involves the Federal Interstate Highway System.

I just rode Portland's new commuter rail today. It falls under federal guidlines even though it is part of Tri-Met. Instead of being regulated by regional government (except being paid for), it is regulated by federal government. I don't get it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
The federal government should only be writing checks in the case of natural disasters and emergency situations.

Like Katrina? I thought that was all on Louisiana and New Orleans. That was what republican cheerleaders were advocating after that disaster.

Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
That is the dumbest line and means nothing when you examine the contents of the stimulus bill.

Well, no. Republicans were standing firm against anything presented by Democrats for any reason. Their party is much more important that helping the people of this great country. Making themselves look good is more important than keeping people in homes. That is what it looks to me.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:33 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 84):
And why is that? Who made that possible? No, wait... let me guess: Clinton and the Democrats, in some twisted way.

That is because every administration and Congress since 1967 has included the FICA payroll tax in the general budget and issued IOU's to the SS trust fund. If you include those IOU's the national debt skyrockets. That is why we also have not had a balanced budget under any President or Congress since 1966. We won't either until those payroll taxes are axed from the general fund and returned to the SS trust fund column but to do that would make the deficit even larger than its bloated size now.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 84):
Really? Did I miss something? He was inagurated in January 2009. My calender says it is currently March 2009.

But thanks to the back loading of the stimulus bill, which we have discussed before, the money has already been appropriated and therefore spent unless legislation rescinding the appropriations are passed before FY 2011.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 84):
No Child Left Behind?

Any local school system can refuse federal funds and thereby opt out of the no child left behind requirements. But just like more and more private citizens are becoming, school systems are addicted to the federal dollars. Try taking your child out of school for a vacation for a few days and see how much static you get. They lose federal meal dollars if your child is reported as absent excused or not.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 84):
I just rode Portland's new commuter rail today. It falls under federal guidlines even though it is part of Tri-Met. Instead of being regulated by regional government (except being paid for), it is regulated by federal government. I don't get it.

Neither do I since you said:

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 73):
Roads need to be repaired.

Are you including railroads in the term "roads"?
 
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seb146
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 85):
Try taking your child out of school for a vacation for a few days and see how much static you get.

None. I don't know any parents who take their kids out of school for a few days that catch flack for it. Around here, parents are outraged that an alcoholic coach is allowed to continue (probably because he is coaching at the highest funded school in Oregon). Parents are outraged that too much money is being spent on extra-curricular sports than general education.

Quoting DXing (Reply 85):
the money has already been appropriated and therefore spent unless legislation rescinding the appropriations are passed before FY 2011.

Right. So, we all should just accept your crystal ball. Got it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 85):
Are you including railroads in the term "roads"?

I was making two different points. You are the one fusing them together. We are done here. I have not even opened your other thread about "Stop Spending" but I can guarantee you are attacking Democrats and putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Democrats and Obama and ignoring the uncontrolled and unchecked spending of the republicans. As usual. Democrats are the enemy and need to be silenced. We get it. You hate Democrats with ever fiber of your being and will stop at nothing to make sure their views are never accepted or heard.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:16 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 83):
Yep, those are the kind of republicans we need to run for office again. Of course they will be villified by the press as you described.

The attck on fiscal conservatives is already underway. The coordinated attack on Rush is only the openning salvo. Anyone who argues for limited government and respect for the constitution will be attacked and marginalized as extremist over the coming years.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
Parents are outraged that too much money is being spent on extra-curricular sports than general education.

I'm curious - Would a serious leftie like yourself support a policy which would require that federal funds be only used towards a certain category of subjects and majors which would actually add value to society? In other words, engineering, sciences, medicine, languages, economics, business and such would be supported. The arts, sociology, psychology, ancient history, sanskrit and such would continue, but without federal funds - you want to study those things, YOU pay for it.

I was wondering if you would support that.
 
dxing
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
None.

Then your school officials don't care about federal funding which is a good thing.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
Right. So, we all should just accept your crystal ball. Got it.

There isn't any crystal ball involved. The legislation containing the appropriations has already passed and been signed into law. It doesn't take a crystal ball to add up appropriations and when they will be spent that have already passed.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
I was making two different points.

Then I failed to detect that in the way you wrote the second part.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
You are the one fusing them together.

I just asked a question.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 86):
I have not even opened your other thread about "Stop Spending" but I can guarantee you are attacking Democrats and putting the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Democrats and Obama and ignoring the uncontrolled and unchecked spending of the republicans.

Too bad because it's not about democrats and republicans. It's about citizens in general being polled and saying pretty clearly that they want the government, no matter what political party is in charge, too just stop spending money and work together to correct the debt levels the government is incurring.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:21 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 87):

The attck on fiscal conservatives is already underway. The coordinated attack on Rush is only the openning salvo.

I am going to repeat myself. Rush Limbaugh is neither a Conservative nor a Neoconservative nor a Fiscal conservative.

He does not have any coherent, consistent, or sensible political ideology. He is NOTHING other than a loud-mouthed windbag talk radio personality who likes to bandy around conservative buzz-phrases.
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 89):
I am going to repeat myself. Rush Limbaugh is neither a Conservative nor a Neoconservative nor a Fiscal conservative.

EXACTLY!!!

He is a parrot of the Republican platform, with little actual detailed knowledge of how things work. But he's the biggest mouth in the country, and as we all know, in America, if you say it louder and more often, it eventually because the truth that no one dare contest. Rush is one of the greatest sources of misinformation out there, and in this case, it has gone so far as to ensure that its listeners who do not independently educate themselves will never know what the terms "conservative", "socialist", "fiscal conservative", and others actually mean.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:57 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 89):
am going to repeat myself. Rush Limbaugh is neither a Conservative nor a Neoconservative nor a Fiscal conservative.

He does not have any coherent, consistent, or sensible political ideology. He is NOTHING other than a loud-mouthed windbag talk radio personality who likes to bandy around conservative buzz-phrases.

You guys keep on repeating this mantra convincing yourself that it's true. But the other day I listened to Rush's keynote speach he gave at CPAC, and he gave a highly articulate description of what conservatism is all about. And he did not talk about abortion and other Theoconservative issues - it was all about fiscal conservatism and the belief in limited government.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...cript-rush-limbaughs-address-cpac/

Unfortunately we do not have another equally articulate spokesperson at the moment. He IS a blowhard. But does that negate the message? I think not.

The difference I think between conservatism and liberalism is honesty. Conservatism can be described completely honestly as Rush did. You might not want it, but it's honest. Liberals always have had to mask their agenda until very recently - now they are very open about wanting full blown socialism and income redistribution, although that honesty only came along SINCE the election, not before. I expect that there will be a backlash.
 
AGM100
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:02 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 89):
He is NOTHING other than a loud-mouthed windbag talk radio personality who likes to bandy around conservative buzz-phrases.

No ... he just does not say what you like to hear. So are you advocating the government shut him down ?

YES or No .... shut him down or not.?

That is what the democrats want ... Carvil and the gang have been praying for it for years . So that is the question . Shut him down or not.?
 
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RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enou

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 92):
So are you advocating the government shut him down ?

YES or No .... shut him down or not.?

 redflag  STRAWMAN! Not a single person here was advocating that the government shut him down. That is a seriously weak retort.

but I'll answer your question anyway.

NO! I don't want him shut down. His presence is really good for Obama. Democrats don't want him shut down at all! They want to make sure that everyone knows he is in control of the party.
 
JakeOrion
Posts: 1090
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:13 pm

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:27 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 93):
NO! I don't want him shut down. His presence is really good for Obama. Democrats don't want him shut down at all! They want to make sure that everyone knows he is in control of the party.

And that response completely killed your arguement entirely.

Democrats Launch Petition Against Rush Limbaugh
http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=42616

Democrats Engage Rush Limbaugh — Smart or Foolish?
http://www.citizensugar.com/2883728

Barack Obama picks a fight with Rush Limbaugh as bipartisan spirit crumbles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...as-bipartisan-spirit-crumbles.html

Obama: Quit Listening to Rush Limbaugh if You Want to Get Things Done
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...stening-rush-limbaugh-want-things/

I can continue with several thousand links if you like.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:49 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 93):
His presence is really good for Obama. Democrats don't want him shut down at all! They want to make sure that everyone knows he is in control of the party.

OK Then , that is important. I assume you don't listen to Rush ? Lately it is obvious he is not leading the party ... He has been blasting the repubs in both houses for earmarks , and weakness on standing up to spending.

And keep in mind , he was not a McCain supporter either . I believe he voted for him in the end , but he is enemy number one for the republicans with week knees.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24174
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:54 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 91):
he gave a highly articulate description of what conservatism is all about.

But, listening to his rantings on a daily basis, his first priority is removing completely the Democratic party. After that, he wants so very badly to reinstate Reganomics and make sure the very wealth have to pay little in taxes and make sure everyone has to pay for health care.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 91):
Liberals always have had to mask their agenda until very recently - now they are very open about wanting full blown socialism and income redistribution, although that honesty only came along SINCE the election,

Thank you so much for telling me what the liberal agenda is. What is the Democrats agenda? Most Democrats want universal health care in some degree. I have only heard one or two Democrats say anything about any degree of "income redistribution." Even then, not much has been said about it. Honesty? What about all the venom and hatred from conservatives? Is that acceptable?

Quoting D L X (Reply 93):
NO! I don't want him shut down. His presence is really good for Obama. Democrats don't want him shut down at all! They want to make sure that everyone knows he is in control of the party.

There are all those sound bytes to back up his narrow-minded thoughts and feelings and all those callers who simply say "Yes, Rush, you are right" and all those callers who only get to say "I think you are wrong, Rush" before being shouted down and told how un-American they are and how they need to simply shut up and vote republican/conservative because they are stupid and wrong. Shut him down? Hell no!
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12729
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:08 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 94):
And that response completely killed your arguement entirely.

Democrats Launch Petition Against Rush Limbaugh
http://www.cnsnews.com/Public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=42616

Democrats Engage Rush Limbaugh — Smart or Foolish?
http://www.citizensugar.com/2883728

Barack Obama picks a fight with Rush Limbaugh as bipartisan spirit crumbles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...as-bipartisan-spirit-crumbles.html

Obama: Quit Listening to Rush Limbaugh if You Want to Get Things Done
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...stening-rush-limbaugh-want-things/

I can continue with several thousand links if you like.

Well, I suggest you READ those links before you post them then! None of them say or even suggest that Democrats want Limbaugh shut down.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 95):
I assume you don't listen to Rush ?

I listen to him on occasion. Trust me, I know what he's about.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 95):
He has been blasting the repubs in both houses for earmarks , and weakness on standing up to spending.

Of course he is. That's because he is in control of the party, and has had to deal with Obama on the offensive.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 95):
he was not a McCain supporter either . I believe he voted for him in the end , but he is enemy number one for the republicans with week knees.

That has little to do with anything, other than the fact that should anyone ever disagree with Rush, they are wrong. Rush does not allow dissent in his party or on his show.
 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:20 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
But, listening to his rantings on a daily basis, his first priority is removing completely the Democratic party.

DEFEAT the Democratic party. Not remove it. Where has he said 'remove' it?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
After that, he wants so very badly to reinstate Reganomics and make sure the very wealth have to pay little in taxes

The very wealthy pay nearly all the taxes as it is, and you complain? The other day, Mayor Bloomberg in New York warned against the planned increase on local taxation for the 'very wealthy' by pointing out that about 40,000 people - the very richest people of a city of 10+ million, pay about 60% of the city's tax revenue. Is that fair, in your opinion? Bloomberg warned that if you raise the taxes on them any more, many of them will move across the river.

The top 1% of the US population makes about 20% of the income. Yes that is high, but they also pay 40% of all federal income taxes. You cannot say that they are not paying their fair share - indeed they are paying double their fair share. Nobody is proposing that that ration should be 1-to-1, but what's wrong with backing off a bit. After all, these are the people who we depend on to invest and hire.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
and make sure everyone has to pay for health care

Whoa, what a radical idea - people should pay for services!

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Thank you so much for telling me what the liberal agenda is. What is the Democrats agenda?

We are not talking about the Democratic party of Tip O'Niell and John Kennedy. The leadership of the Democratic party is now in the hands of full-blown socialists.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
I have only heard one or two Democrats say anything about any degree of "income redistribution." Even then, not much has been said about it.

Well of course - it's still waving a red flag in front of a bull. But they talk about socialist ideals much more readily than they ever have before - like Obama saying that he wants to eliminate business cycles last week. That means he wants a more centrally planned economy.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
Honesty? What about all the venom and hatred from conservatives? Is that acceptable?

I would call it fear rather than hatred. We really do fear that you guys are truely and perhaps irreversably f&cking up our country. Wouldn't that upset you?
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Conservative David Frum To Rush Limbaugh: Enough!

Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:25 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 96):
There are all those sound bytes to back up his narrow-minded thoughts and feelings and all those callers who simply say "Yes, Rush, you are right" and all those callers who only get to say "I think you are wrong, Rush" before being shouted down and told how un-American they are and how they need to simply shut up and vote republican/conservative because they are stupid and wrong. Shut him down? Hell no!

I could not agree with you more, agree with Rush, you are golden on here, disagree and the hammering starts, a million reasons in defense of the last eight horrible years, yet, damnation for the last 55 days or so. Dick Cheney, almost, not quite, admitted some errors were made, not quite though, more of the same bull from his side. The Conservative style is to hammer and deny anything is their fault. Cutting taxes is the holy grail to cure everything. It does cure many things for the wealthy, we would not want them to run out of money in their trust funds in the next 100 years.

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