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czbbflier
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Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:51 pm



Quote:
Globe and Mail Update
March 13, 2009 at 12:08 PM EDT
The auto industry is in crisis in North America, and General Motors and Chrysler say they need billions of dollars in loans from U.S. and Canadian governments to survive.

This week, Chrysler warned Members of Parliament that, without a $2.3-billion loan from the federal and Ontario governments, it would pull its assembly operations out of Canada. Chrysler is also demanded the Canadian Auto Workers agree to a new contract that would cut labour costs by more than 25 per cent.

GM has asked for $7-billion in loans from the two levels of government. But GM and Chrysler aren't the only companies looking for aid. Senior executives from the Canadian operations of Ford, Toyota and Honda all urged the government to stimulate car sales by boosting credit and adopting incentives such as tax holidays.

Apparently, that's 6000 jobs. That's a lot of jobs. But my thought is to just let them go. Screw them. I'd rather spend the money to help re-train the 6000 people or spend the money to attract another manufacturer. Threats just don't work with me.

Somehow I wonder if Chrysler would be happy if Canadians boycotted their products because they pulled out of Canada?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:24 pm



Quoting Czbbflier (Thread starter):

Somehow I wonder if Chrysler would be happy if Canadians boycotted their products because they pulled out of Canada?

Better than that, Canada can simply list the importation of Chrysler products as illegal.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
iwenttoYXEonce
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:26 pm

$2.3 billion for 6000 workers is approximately $380k per worker. It doesn't sound like a good deal at all.

Like you said, it may be better to just let them go and attract companies with a better long term outlook (high-tech, clean energy, etc.).
 
greaser
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:04 pm

I'm so sick of this. let chrysler's private owners bail themselves out. If chrysler falls, it fall. The only product it's good for is the minivan.
Now you're really flying
 
A332
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:01 pm

The best part was watching the outraged Chrysler workers react to the concession demands from the parent company...

Like the one woman, who angrily shouted her displeasure that Chrysler is demanding further wage cuts & concessions that what GM's employees have agreed to.

- First off, you don't work for GM, so forget what's going on over there and mind your business.

- Second, be happy you might actually have a job to go to, even if it means a lower wage & less benefits...

I am really starting to dislike the Canadian auto workers... bunch of overpaid, underworked, unskilled, money hungry twits who have had it too good and don't seem to understand that their greed has played a big role in the demise of the very companies they have sucked dry.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
YWG
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:30 pm



Quoting Czbbflier (Thread starter):
Screw them. I'd rather spend the money to help re-train the 6000 people or spend the money to attract another manufacturer.

It's about time someone realized that the CAN and USA governments are pumping money into a dead cause. Plain and simple: They make an inferior product compared to their asian competitors. The cars fall apart and look like sh*t after 3 years. I'd rather spend the equal amount of money on a civic rather than a ____ Chrysler ( i don't even follow their product line). It's like giving blood transufsions to a patient with a gash to the neck. Fix the bloody company, regain some sort of good reputation, and then ask for MORE money.

Quoting Czbbflier (Thread starter):
Somehow I wonder if Chrysler would be happy if Canadians boycotted their products because they pulled out of Canada?

Most people couldn't care less if GM, Chrysler, or Ford left. All totally garbage wrecks.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Better than that, Canada can simply list the importation of Chrysler products as illegal.

That wouldn't fly with the WTO and NAFTA.
Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:43 pm

I say let Chrysler fall flat on its face, we have a Crysler 300 in the family and it was good for the first year, and now it is just crap (2-3 years old now). My VW is much better even though its made in Mexico (fancy that).

Until they make good cars - let them run.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
Arrow
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:52 pm

Neither Canada nor the US should be putting a US dime (Cdn 12 cents) into these companies. Let them die, and out of the ashes will come something better. What the CAW gave up for the GM deal was a joke, and I can't believe the government thought that was acceptable.

I hope Chrysler does pull out of Canada, and Ford along with them. GM is going to die anyway so it doesn't matter -- although it would be nice if they would die before any public money flows in.

If this all goes through, I'll never by another Big Three vehicle again.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:54 pm

So what´ll they offer, some precious patents?
GM tried the same stunt here with SAAB, planning to keep all patents.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:11 am

I say let them go.

Chrysler routinely places at the bottom of the list in Consumer Reports Car edition, has outdated powerplant technology, and I'd MUCH rather spend MY tax dollars retraining those 6000 people to do something else.

1011yyz
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:09 am

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out Chrysler! Your products are crap!

I'd rather the money be spent on bringing more Honda or Toyota plants here. Or maybe once Chrysler fails, try to get BMW or VW to open a plant in Canada.

Screw the American automakers. I'm sick of hearing about how their jobs are so much more important than all other industries.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:23 am

For the money Chrysler is asking in bailouts, the Canadian government could buy the damned company.
What the...?
 
baroque
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:49 pm



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 11):
For the money Chrysler is asking in bailouts, the Canadian government could buy the damned company.

I have a feeling buying the company would be second prize or maybe the wooden spoon! Or as they say around here, stone motherless last.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:07 pm



Quoting YWG (Reply 5):
That wouldn't fly with the WTO and NAFTA.

And they're going to do anything other than protest Canada's action? Canada is a sovereign nation. If their reaction is "we don't do business with companies that threaten us" then I don't see what the WTO can do. And I doubt that will result in everyone pulling out of NAFTA.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
StarAC17
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:31 pm

As pissed as everyone is at least they are being honest to what their intentions are, and we should call their bluff on this one.

Also don't think for a minute that GM or Ford won't pack up and leave after they get bailout money from the Canadian taxpayer. We cannot really stop this from happening unless we really play hardball. The auto companies are holding the Ontario economy hostage and being from Ontario I don't like it because we cannot move on from it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Better than that, Canada can simply list the importation of Chrysler products as illegal.

They can but they won't although the fact that Stephen Harper is conservative and Obama is liberal increase the chances of this happening but not that much. We are still very afraid to stand up to the US in a major way.

In a larger scale Canada really needs to expand its trading to more of the world and not concentrate solely on the the US market. Because when it comes to recessions like this one we get hit very hard because 85% of our exports go south where if 50-70% went stateside we might be in much better shape economically when the next downturn comes.

Quoting YWG (Reply 5):
That wouldn't fly with the WTO and NAFTA.

Neither did the softwood lumber issue and the US refused to return the $5 billion of tariffs made on that when the WTO ruled in our favour. Stephen Harper did make a deal on this but the ruling was never honored.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:49 pm



Quoting A332 (Reply 4):
I am really starting to dislike the Canadian auto workers... bunch of overpaid, underworked, unskilled, money hungry twits who have had it too good and don't seem to understand that their greed has played a big role in the demise of the very companies they have sucked dry.

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Dougloid
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting A332 (Reply 4):

I am really starting to dislike the Canadian auto workers... bunch of overpaid, underworked, unskilled, money hungry twits who have had it too good and don't seem to understand that their greed has played a big role in the demise of the very companies they have sucked dry.

That sounds remarkably like a man who never worked in an automobile plant. Have you had the experience? How did it sit with you?

Because I came close enough to smell and taste it, and it was tough stuff.

Back in the day I went to the Vineyard Road Ford plant-now closed, I think-and applied for a job. At the time the minimum wage was about $2.25 per hour and Ford was paying about twelve.
So this old guy doing the hiring says "Listen, kid. Do you think Mr. Ford's handing out free money here? He pays you well, but he's not losing any money on the deal, and you're going to have to give him what he asks for. Now. I've got a nice job for you working in the transmission pit. You'll be getting regular showers of hot transmission fluid and jackassing gearboxes around over your head 8 hours a day plus overtime and don't think about punching the line stop button, either. Want it?"

I found some other pressing engagement that day.

I did end up working in a nearby air conditioner factory putting wall units together for a lot less, and I can tell you it was no frackin' picnic either.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:49 am

To me, it's immaterial whether they make good or bad cars. It's just not good business to threaten governments (and their citizens) like this. For all the investments that the Canadian federal government has made over time to Chrysler- and the others- means nothing now, apparently.

While in business there's no sentiment, I still feel that for all the investments, tax deferrals, and incentives paid in the past to subsidize these companies, to put it down to "Pay up or we'll move out" is just too transparent. In other words, it's called extortion. THAT'S why I think we should cut them off from the pork trough.

And then there's this other scheme: All the automobile manufacturers, the foreign ones included, like the idea of the government giving them what amounts to a subsidy for people to buy new cars! Every penny of that proposed money should be going to public transit- not private car ownership.

As the venerable Bob Dylan would say, "Times, they are a-changin' "!

(Although I truly believe in public transit and take it wherever and whenever I can... here's some full disclosure: I work in public transit.)
 
Dougloid
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:26 pm



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 17):

As the venerable Bob Dylan would say, "Times, they are a-changin' "!

Venerable? I saw that fellow on stage at the Mosque Theater in Newark, New Jersey in 1963. There were about 100 people in the place. I had my Aiwa pocket tape recorder with me too.

Now. to the substance of his remarks, I would venture that he was talking about politics and the young.

the difference there, of course is that the young folks of that era actually went and did something-civil rights, marches in the summer of 1964, draft resistance, war resistance, and ultimately an end to the war.

I hardly think that today's young folk, lobotomized as they are by Playstation and whether Rihanna is going to get the snot pounded out of her again, and American Idle and childhood obesity and texting and blackberries actually have the gumption to do something like that. I hope that they will rise to the occasion but I am not sanguine about the prospects.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 18):
Now. to the substance of his remarks, I would venture that he was talking about politics and the young.

lol. Not exactly germane to the conversation but I'll take your comments in the spirit in which they are given.... OK- maybe he wasn't so 'venerable'. Besides, I honestly didn't think that he was that good a singer.  Smile

However: Much of what this is all about IS about politics. Years ago, the government- and especially folks from Ontario would have clamoured for those 6,000 jobs. They would have gotten down on their knees- Hell... even bent over for Chrysler and their lot. But I'm not so sure now.

I am a loooooong way away from southern Ontario, Canada's industrial heartland, and know that I speak for many when I say there's better ways to spend billions to create jobs. We're not close to those jobs and so it's easy to say f*** 'em. But I really do think we're on the verge of a see-change. The growth in public transportation across North America necessarily means a diminishment in the size of the car business. This is a zero-sum game and finally public transport is on the ascendant.
 
swissy
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RE: Chrysler Threatens Canadian Government

Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:58 am



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
I am a loooooong way away from southern Ontario, Canada's industrial heartland, and know that I speak for many when I say there's better ways to spend billions to create jobs.

Agree, let them go their way..... with what ever ending might come.... so 6'000 people.... there is always a tomorrow, here in YHM some steel factories shot down for a unknown time frame..... my guess: the time is over and I do not understand why keeping these companies on artificial life support.....blow good money out the door, instead using these good tax $$$$ and attract new business....

Have not heard anything yet that Toyota or Honda are asking "our" government for $$$....

Would like to know which country has the cheaper labor rate US or Canada?

Cheerios,

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