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OA260
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Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:56 pm

News coming out of Russia , could this lead to another ''Cuban Missile Crisis''??


MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russia expressed interest in using Cuban airfields during patrol missions of its strategic bombers, Russia's Interfax news agency reported

"There are four or five airfields in Cuba with 4,000-meter-long runways, which absolutely suit us," Maj. Gen. Anatoly Zhikharev told Interfax.

Zhikharev, who is the chief of staff of the Russian Air Force's long-range aviation, said, "If the two chiefs of state display such a political will, we are ready to fly there."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/eu.../14/russia.cuba.bombers/index.html
 
RNOcommctr
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:22 pm

As a citizen of the U.S., I am not real comfortable with having Russian bombers in Cuba or Venezuela. It brings back memories from my childhood of the Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

On the other hand, the U.S. Air Force has six bases in Europe, all within striking distance of Russia. So who can blame the Russians for wanting to be in a similar situation with regard to the U.S.?

Let's hope diplomacy can win out over another expensive and counter-productive arms race.
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par13del
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:54 pm

Well, diplomacy did not work out in the reverse, as mentioned, the US has bases around Russia, so quid pro quo.
Reports say the use is for their patrols, Bears have used Cuban airfields before, now I think they want bomber patrols like US B-52 patrols during the cold war.
If the US plays this right, the Cubans could get greater financial aid from the Russians in return, that should cut back on the number of boats crossing to the US and could also raise the standard of living for the Cuban people.

The last thing the US govt. wants right now is the financial collapse of the Cuban economy, Raul has implemented some economic changes, which may or may not do any good, this at least has less financial risk.
 
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfi

Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:50 pm



Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 1):
On the other hand, the U.S. Air Force has six bases in Europe, all within striking distance of Russia.

No Bombers in Europe though, only Fighters and Transports. Big difference between the US having some F-16s and C-17s in Germany and Russia having bombers in Cuba, those F-16s are much further from Russia than Cuba is from the US. How would Russia react if the US moved B-52s to Turkey.

I guess were going to keep the MIssile defense in Europe after all, why negotiate if they're escalating.

If Russia does indeed base bombers in Cuba the US should move Air defense artillery units as well as fires brigades to Guantanamo Bay to shot down any Russian bombers and destroy their bases should hostilities erupt.
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kaitak
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:04 pm

What would the point of such a move be, other than to enter into a "who blinks first" contest with Obama? I cannot see any strategic goal (although I don't claim to be an expert on this!) that would be achieved by Russia doing such a thing; it would only raise tensions with no likely positive outcome?

I guess that it would be a message to the US to drop the installation of the defence shield in Poland (something the Polish govt, incidentally, wants to see happen). The US is apparently wavering, so maybe putting bombers within 100-150 miles of the US is a message that says: "see how you like it; if the threat to put missiles in Poland is realised; you'll be seeing Blackjacks over the Bay of Pigs" ...
 
TheCol
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:52 pm

I highly doubt Russia will open up that can of worms for a second time.
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LAXintl
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:12 pm

Hey if the Russians want to fund such expensive overseas basing ventures why not.

With US assets, the minute one of those planes get 20 feet of the ground they will be well monitored anyhow.

I would not worry.
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PPVRA
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 5):
I highly doubt Russia will open up that can of worms for a second time.

With the continuing expansion of NATO I don't think its fair to say they are the ones who have opened the can of worms.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
News coming out of Russia , could this lead to another ''Cuban Missile Crisis''??

No, simply because bombers ≠ ballistic missiles=

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 1):
Let's hope diplomacy can win out over another expensive and counter-productive arms race.

The arms race was actually quite effective at fast-tracking new technology and innovation. Both the U.S. and the Soviet Union spent billions of dollars in R&D that led to many of the electronics and communications devices we take for granted today.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 2):
Well, diplomacy did not work out in the reverse, as mentioned, the US has bases around Russia, so quid pro quo.

None within 100 miles of Russian territory.
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:03 am



Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

No Bombers in Europe though, only Fighters and Transports. Big difference between the US having some F-16s and C-17s in Germany and Russia having bombers in Cuba, those F-16s are much further from Russia than Cuba is from the US. How would Russia react if the US moved B-52s to Turkey.

What does it matter? With a cruise missile or a bomber or a ballistic missile we can hit Russia in a matter of hours. So whether a B-52 drops a nuke or a missile delivers a nuke, either way, a nuke goes off.
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AGM100
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:30 pm

This will most likely play out more as a victory for Hugo and the other SA leaders who see Russia as there protector. I believe it is more of a sign to them than anything else ... I mean Bombers ? big deal that is so 50's anyway. The US has enough fire power in Jacksonville Fl . and Eglin AFB to handle bomber's no problem.

This is more of a political move than anything , Sean Penn , Rev Wright , Ayers ,Farican and Glover must be really proud ! stir..
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:25 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
The US has enough fire power in Jacksonville Fl . and Eglin AFB to handle bomber's no problem.

Not sure the P-3s and H-60s at Jax will be of much use in the anti-bomber roll.
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DocLightning
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:40 pm



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 11):

Not sure the P-3s and H-60s at Jax will be of much use in the anti-bomber roll.

OK, so we move some fighters down there.

Their bombers aren't as fast as our fighters. As soon as we detect that a bomber is heading to US Airspace, we meet them and politely suggest that they turn the hell around or we blow them out of the sky.

And if they don't turn around, we follow through.

I'm far more concerned about missiles, which are smaller, harder to detect, faster, harder to shoot down, and less concerned for their own lives than bombers are.
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Acheron
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:51 pm

Its funny like you people talk about this like its some sort of video game, and thinking that childish and simple-minded "we will just blow them out of the sky" attitude doesn't have any consequences and pretending neither party is sitting above of thousands of nuclear warheads.

Sorry, but none of your wargaming wetdreams will happen.

[Edited 2009-03-15 11:54:24]
 
zanl188
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:57 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
What does it matter? With a cruise missile or a bomber or a ballistic missile we can hit Russia in a matter of hours. So whether a B-52 drops a nuke or a missile delivers a nuke, either way, a nuke goes off.



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 10):
I mean Bombers ? big deal that is so 50's anyway. The US has enough fire power in Jacksonville Fl . and Eglin AFB to handle bomber's no problem.

Aircraft from Jax or Eglin would never get there in time. Bomber turning towards Miami from a "training" run in Cuba would be very difficult to intercept, identify, and interdict before it got to Miami - particularly if it comes in low....

Probably the more important point though is wether they bring their nukes with them or not. Bomber with no warhead is just showing the flag, bomber with warheads on the other hand....

Russian bombers based in Cuba = very destabilizing....
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:19 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 11):

Not sure the P-3s and H-60s at Jax will be of much use in the anti-bomber roll.


OK, so we move some fighters down there.

JAX already has fighters - the Florida Air National Guard unit at Jacksonville Int'l has F-15s. There's also a reserve unit at Homestead Air Reserve Base near Miami, and F-15s at Tyndall AFB, the F-15 training base. Key West Naval Air Station also has fighters (F/A-18s). And MacDill AFB has the refueling tankers to keep the birds in the air.

In other words, there's no shortage of firepower in Florida.
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LTU932
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:48 pm

I highly doubt Russia is stupid enough to make such a move in the US's neighbourhood. And also, regarding the bases in Europe, the Americans have one big advantage: The places they are based in represent NATO countries and therefore, US allies (e.g. the bases in Italy and Germany to name a few). Russia would only have Cuba in this case, although I'm pretty sure that even with the help of the Russians, Cuba would be outmanned and outgunned by the US in case of an armed conflict. Russia doesn't have an alliance like the US does, at least not since the fall of the Warsaw Pact, when Russia was still part of the Soviet Union.

And on another note: Should the Russians directly attack the United States, they'll not only have to deal with the subsequent war against them, but also with a war against all of NATO, because this would force all NATO members to act as well (as per article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which says that an attack on a NATO member is considered an attack on all of NATO). This means that the Russians would not only have to fight the Americans, but also pretty much all of Western/Central Europe, some former Soviet satellite states (e.g. Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.) and Canada. There would be too much at stake for them if they attack the US and with it, all of NATO, especially since they don't have an alliance even remotely similar to it; even the old Warsaw Pact wasn't conceived as a military alliance similar to NATO (or rather, it was never conceived as a defence alliance like NATO), because it was supposed to secure the USSR's hegemony in the satellite states, and serve as a counterweight to NATO.

Like I said, Russia won't be stupid enough to make such a move, unless they forgot the lessons of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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lowrider
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:07 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
could this lead to another ''Cuban Missile Crisis''

I don't think this will happen. I don't think the US has the spine for a rematch. We will probably find something to feel guilty about and cave.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
unless they forgot the lessons of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

They learned that they can get the US to quietly agree to to things that we would never publically agree to, so long as we get to engage in the high-fives and chest thumping after the confrontation.
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par13del
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:18 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 16):
Like I said, Russia won't be stupid enough to make such a move, unless they forgot the lessons of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Let understand the military aspect of this more clearly. It is irrelevant how many fighters the US has based on Florida, if a nuclear conflict appears imminent, the US just as Russia would have to initiate first strike actions against bases close to home. Russian bombers can launch cruise missiles against the US from Cuban airspace, the warning time to populations in the south are decreased, basing bombers in Cuba is a big deal, the US definately would not want them there, as there will be no way to determine whether they had nuclear weapons or not. One must not forget that during the Cuban missile crisis, part of the "deal" was that the US would remove its missiles from Turkey, give the Russians credit for backing down by allowing it to look as if the US gave nothing up in return for the removal, even when the missiles were removed a few months later from Turkey there was no big fan fare to let the masses believe anything other than what we initially believed.
 
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:19 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
No Bombers in Europe though

Don't the US have B52 bombers operating from the UK ?
 
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:29 pm



Quoting Acheron (Reply 13):
and thinking that childish and simple-minded "we will just blow them out of the sky" attitude doesn't have any consequences and pretending neither party is sitting above of thousands of nuclear warheads.

Sorry, but none of your wargaming wetdreams will happen.

Acheron, mi amigo....I think that what you said was actually DocLightning's whole point: As a strategic, political weapon, bombers have been obsolete for decades. If Russian bombers are based in Cuba, I'm guessing that the US will know the second any one of them ever gets airborne, for any reason, and will already have the appropriate defensive measures (fighters, SAMs, naval assets, etc.) locked and loaded, just waiting for them to make the turn toward Florida. It wasn't "wargaming wetdreams", as you put it...it was current reality. When Russia starts basing subs or missiles in Cuba or Venezuela...THEN I'll get worried. Otherwise, it's just posturing and face-saving by the Russians that is not a realistic threat to the USA.
 
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:30 pm

BTW...any particular reason this thread hasn't been moved to Mil Av/Space?
 
zanl188
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:41 pm



Quoting KRIC777 (Reply 20):
I'm guessing that the US will know the second any one of them ever gets airborne, for any reason, and will already have the appropriate defensive measures (fighters, SAMs, naval assets, etc.) locked and loaded, just waiting for them to make the turn toward Florida.

Sure and we knew where the hijacked aircraft were on 9-11 too... Sad
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KRIC777
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:49 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 22):
Sure and we knew where the hijacked aircraft were on 9-11 too...

9/11 = domestic civilian airliners...

Russia -- (likely) armed, MILITARY aircraft from a semi-hostile nation, based in a HOSTILE nation
...Little bit of a difference there, from the DoD's perspective, bro.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:58 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 22):
Sure and we knew where the hijacked aircraft were on 9-11 too...

I'm surprised that as former USAF, you don't know the reason behind that one. The focus of the air defense mission before 9/11 was different, with us concentrating on potential threats coming from OUTSIDE the borders, not from within. The fact that the aircraft were hijacked and the "Hijacked" sqwak code was not put in to the transponder didn't help matters. Completely different situation. Now the lessons have been learned and part of the focus on air defense is placed on the potential for hijacked airliners.

Quoting KRIC777 (Reply 21):
BTW...any particular reason this thread hasn't been moved to Mil Av/Space?

Probably because the overall topic deals more with foreign relations and international politics than the operation capabilities of Russian bombers.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 19):
Don't the US have B52 bombers operating from the UK ?

Nope. In fact, just did a presentation in ROTC for this on Thursday. The exact topic was US Air Force Presence in Europe: Post Cold War. Now that the Cold War is over, the bombers are elsewhere.

US Bases in Europe:
RAF Lakenheath, UK: F-15s and HH-60s
RAF Mildenhall, UK: KC-135s, MC-130s, and MH-53s
Aviano, Italy: F-16s
Spangdahlem, Germany: F-16s and A-10s
Ramstein, Germany: C-130s and VIP transport aircraft

[Edited 2009-03-15 14:09:44]
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KRIC777
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):
Probably because the overall topic deals more with foreign relations and international politics than the operation capabilities of Russian bombers.

True enough, my friend: A bold political move...but militarily, pretty inconsequential.
 
dragon6172
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:27 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 15):
Key West Naval Air Station also has fighters (F/A-18s).

NAS Key West has an F-5 aggressor squadron permanently based there, everything else rotates thru on detachments.
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JakeOrion
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:35 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):

Nope. In fact, just did a presentation in ROTC for this on Thursday. The exact topic was US Air Force Presence in Europe: Post Cold War. Now that the Cold War is over, the bombers are elsewhere.

So why do the Russians need to place their bombers in Cuba while US bombers are nowhere near them, barring Iraq and Afghanistan?
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zanl188
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:42 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):
I'm surprised that as former USAF, you don't know the reason behind that one. The focus of the air defense mission before 9/11 was different, with us concentrating on potential threats coming from OUTSIDE the borders, not from within.

Excuse me but you are being naive as to how relatively easy it would be to get an uncooperative but determined aircraft into US airspace from the south. Smugglers do it routinely, it's difficult but not impossible as you would suggest. In this case we are not talking about smugglers or poorly trained/equipped terrorists (that had to steal their weapon system!!) but a trained military aircrew and all the support infrastructure that comes with them.

Once past the ADIZ an uncooperative & determined target would make mincemeat of the air defense system until the defense posture changed. How long did that take on 9-11 - 3, 4 hours? Probably better now but that still puts much of the southeastern U.S. at risk. Make it half a dozen or so uncooperative & determined targets and one WILL get thru and frankly it only takes one to make a bad day for everyone.

Yeah there is a lot of firepower in FL - but how much of it is ready to go at any given moment? It isn't as much as you think. How long do you think it would take just to arm up the jets that aren't sitting alert? We won't have that much time from a threat based in Cuba.....

Lets talk about tankers... Once those fighters launch to intercept (the few that are sitting alert) they're going to need airborne gas, they burn a lot of it in AB, and if they miss the first intercept opportunity they'll need gas (remember these are the only available fighters armed up) to set up again. How many tankers do you think are available in the southeast U.S. all tanked up and ready to go?

The aerostats & other airborne radars are good at defending against this sort of thing but how many do you think we have? 33 E-3s to cover the entire U.S. and overseas commitments. Probably only half airworthy at any given moment and only a fraction of those sitting alert. I suspect the same is true of E-2s & any customs assets.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:32 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 19):
Don't the US have B52 bombers operating from the UK ?

Again, the UK is approximately 1,000 mi from Russian territory. Cuba is approximately 100 miles from U.S. territory.

The U.S. also has a major population and industrial/commercial center sitting right at the tip of Florida. Targets of equal value in Russia do not sit smack dab at the border of Russian territory. That's a contributing factor for why this is a more destabilizing action than America's relatively static role in European's continental defense.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
What does it matter? With a cruise missile or a bomber or a ballistic missile we can hit Russia in a matter of hours. So whether a B-52 drops a nuke or a missile delivers a nuke, either way, a nuke goes off.

It matters Doc because one statement is much more aggressive than the other. You cannot equate the U.S. presence in Europe with Russia placing offensive forces in Cuba.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:50 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 28):
Excuse me but you are being naive as to how relatively easy it would be to get an uncooperative but determined aircraft into US airspace from the south. Smugglers do it routinely, it's difficult but not impossible as you would suggest. In this case we are not talking about smugglers or poorly trained/equipped terrorists (that had to steal their weapon system!!) but a trained military aircrew and all the support infrastructure that comes with them.

I made no mention of how easy it would be to fly an aircraft into the US from the south across the Gulf. I only referenced your post to 9/11 and why our assets were aimed at intercepting threats from outside the borders, not from within. Also, our military assets were aimed at intercepting military targets. Now I'm sure if these drug flights were bombing civilian targets instead we could do more to intercept them but since these flights are coming in small prop jobs they probably aren't seen as a military threat and thus the military can't intervene.


Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 28):
How long did that take on 9-11 - 3, 4 hours? Probably better now but that still puts much of the southeastern U.S. at risk. Make it half a dozen or so uncooperative & determined targets and one WILL get thru and frankly it only takes one to make a bad day for everyone.

Now they have fighters on short notice alert. When I was on a summer program at Buckley Air Force Base in 2006, we watched, from the control tower, two of the Air Guard F-16s do a short notice scramble. The birds were cranked and airborne within 5 or 6 minutes. And I'd have to believe that if Russia did move bombers to Cuba, we'd get a higher percentage of the fighters in Florida region on alert - wouldn't you agree?

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 28):
. How many tankers do you think are available in the southeast U.S. all tanked up and ready to go?

Tankers at MacDill in Tampa and Robins AFB in Georiga. You wouldn't need a significant amount to cover the entire region of south Florida. And it will take the bombers in Cuba a while to reach any other region of the country beyond Florida.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 29):
Again, the UK is approximately 1,000 mi from Russian territory. Cuba is approximately 100 miles from U.S. territory.

The U.S. also has a major population and industrial/commercial center sitting right at the tip of Florida. Targets of equal value in Russia do not sit smack dab at the border of Russian territory. That's a contributing factor for why this is a more destabilizing action than America's relatively static role in European's continental defense.

During the Cold War, our assets were on the border of East.

The point of a war isn't for it to be fair, it's to win, and that means giving yourself every advantage both BEFORE and DURING combat operations.

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 27):
So why do the Russians need to place their bombers in Cuba while US bombers are nowhere near them, barring Iraq and Afghanistan?

That's a question for the Russians to answer, not me but my guess would be strategic advantage (See above comment). Also, let's keep in mind a base in Cuba with a few Russian bombers could probably be taken out pretty easily with all the assets we have.

BTW, I don't think we have bombers based in Iraq or Afghanistan. They come in from elsewhere to do their missions.
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zanl188
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:15 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 30):
Also, our military assets were aimed at intercepting military targets.

And you propose distinguishing the difference between noncooperative smugglers and a noncooperative bomber how?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 30):
The birds were cranked and airborne within 5 or 6 minutes.

Care to take guess at how many fighters are at this state of readiness?

5 or 6 minutes is halfway to Miami, not to mention the time it took to decide that he's hostile, then of course you have to get in position to shoot him, and of course we're assuming that we know exactly where he is.....

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 30):
Tankers at MacDill in Tampa and Robins AFB in Georiga.

Tankers - plural! - my but you're being generous.....
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:51 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 31):
And you propose distinguishing the difference between noncooperative smugglers and a noncooperative bomber how?

Speed, altitude, radar signature, bombers trying to jam radar signals. I doubt the Russiand will be sending in bombs on Beechcraft and Cessnas moving at 100-200 knots.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 31):
Care to take guess at how many fighters are at this state of readiness?

Do you really think our state of readiness would not change if the Russians moved bombers to Cuba? And it's not like this move will happen overnight.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 31):
5 or 6 minutes is halfway to Miami, not to mention the time it took to decide that he's hostile, then of course you have to get in position to shoot him, and of course we're assuming that we know exactly where he is.....

It's not like there's a lot of other aircraft coming across the Atlantic Ocean between Cuba and the US.
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DocLightning
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:01 am



Quoting Acheron (Reply 13):
Its funny like you people talk about this like its some sort of video game, and thinking that childish and simple-minded "we will just blow them out of the sky" attitude doesn't have any consequences and pretending neither party is sitting above of thousands of nuclear warheads.

The other option is to simply allow Russia to fly armed bombers over the U.S. mainland. Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

Russia is well aware that flying an armed warplane into U.S. airspace is an act of war and that we will respond as such. If they were to make such a move, we'd be well within our rights.
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:49 am



Quoting KRIC777 (Reply 20):
As a strategic, political weapon, bombers have been obsolete for decades.

Sea, air and land based strategic weapons all have their uses. Sea-based weapons are hard to find. Land-based weapons force your opponent to attack your own soil if they want to get rid of them. And air-based weapons, unlike the other two, are recallable.

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hercppmx
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:49 am

It is just a giant game of chess, if the US wants missiles in eastern europe, then russia will put bombers in cuba. If the move does indeed take place those planes and there positions and status will be followed very carefully. a couple of satellites will keep eyes from space, there will be far more alert a/c in florida, and possibly patrols, maybe some patriot missiles in southern florida and you'll more then likely find navy subs right outside cuban waters. along with guided missile destroyers and if high tensions occur like the missile crisis you'll find an entire carrier strike group out there too.

TU-95's might be able to get away with flying over a carrier in the western pacific but I have no doubt that the US will give due consideration to the situation in cuba if it happens, IMHO this is merely political posturing to try and keep missile's out of poland.
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Acheron
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:03 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
The other option is to simply allow Russia to fly armed bombers over the U.S. mainland. Sorry, but that's not going to happen.

Russia is well aware that flying an armed warplane into U.S. airspace is an act of war and that we will respond as such. If they were to make such a move, we'd be well within our rights.

And what makes you think they'll do that?. Their bombers have plenty of range to surround american airspace, and there is plenty of airspace over the caribbean at their disposal between Cuba and Venezuela(its not like the Dominican Republic or Haiti have any means to intercept the bombers that cross their airspace other than a few turboprops that can't even match the speed of a Tu-95), anyway.

Besides, they don't really need to enter american airspace to have a sizable city(if thats the idea you are sugesting) within range of some of the A-G weapons they can carry.
Keep in mind we are not talking about some crappy airforce with a few fighter-bombers like Iraq or any of the Eastern European countries that got wiped out by NATO in the 90's. Sure, they might have taken a hit in their training and operational rates in the 90's but they are probably still better than what the US and NATO has had to face in the last 20 or 30 years outside of the WarPac.

There are way too many variables at play to just say "We'll blow them out of the sky and that's that".
 
dragon6172
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:56 am



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 28):
Yeah there is a lot of firepower in FL - but how much of it is ready to go at any given moment? It isn't as much as you think. How long do you think it would take just to arm up the jets that aren't sitting alert? We won't have that much time from a threat based in Cuba.....



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 32):
Do you really think our state of readiness would not change if the Russians moved bombers to Cuba? And it's not like this move will happen overnight.

I would guess that something similiar to what happens over the Bering Strait would be set in place if the Ruskies move bombers to Cuba. Our fighters pretty much shadow them as soon as they are airborne. Not sure if there is an aerostat at Gitmo, but may not be a bad idea to put some sort of airborne radar down there to keep a close eye on there movements.
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STT757
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfi

Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:12 pm

The Florida Air National Guard from Jacksonville keeps a detachment of F-15s at Homestead ARB, this would probably get beefed up significantly if Russia were to move bombers to Cuba.
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AGM100
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Aircraft from Jax or Eglin would never get there in time. Bomber turning towards Miami from a "training" run in Cuba would be very difficult to intercept, identify, and interdict before it got to Miami - particularly if it comes in low....

The 33rd from Eglin could cover the entire region around the clock with the F-15 and tankers from McDill in a extreme alert situation . The fighting 93rd MAKOS ( F-16) could be on constant alert from Homestead and other TDY squadrons could be there in a few days if not hours.

Not to mention , USN Ticonderoga's with Standard and Sea Sparrow being positioned out on the approaches .

A serious issue may be the safety of all the other aircraft flying in this area. Anyone who has been to MIA knows the traffic is heavy. I hope all the carriers are doing good transponder checks and making sure ATC is fully up to date on there flight plans.
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yowza
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RE: Russian Strategic Bombers Could Use Cuba Airfields

Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:27 pm

Russians to base "X" in Cuba/Venezuela pops up every few months. This is a non-event and nothing will come of it.

YOWza

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