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EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:33 am

Wow! Vettel and Kubica ... what a way to screw up a great race!!!

Big mistake by Kubica .. he had time to try at an easier spot IMO.

And this means a 1-2 for Brawn in their fist GP ever!
 
BlueElephant
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:33 am

Bloody Hell! Crash!!!!

Brawn 1-2!!!!

Hamilton to 4th?!
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:34 am

Hamilton 3rd!!
filler
filler
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:36 am

Wait ... now they are saying Trulli is 3rd again ... still a good race by lewis
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:36 am



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 152):
Hamilton 3rd!!

I am verry happy!!!!!
 airplane   angel   cheerful   cheerful   cheerful   cheerful   cheerful 
 
BlueElephant
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:38 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 152):
Hamilton 3rd!!
filler
filler

Back to 4th?...What happened?!...Confused...Great result though for him....talk about Damage Control...

Congrats to Brawn and Button!!

Off to bed then... 3:40 am here on the east coast of the US...goodnight!

[Edited 2009-03-29 00:40:02]
 
B747forever
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:39 am



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 150):
Wow! Vettel and Kubica ... what a way to screw up a great race!!!

Big mistake by Kubica .. he had time to try at an easier spot IMO.

Extremely sad. So pity!


Congrats to Brawn GP, a 1-2 win. Just amazing. And Hamilton will get quite a lot of points after all. Luck on his side today to finish 4th
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:41 am



Quoting B747forever (Reply 156):
Congrats to Brawn GP, a 1-2 win.

Congratulations to the winners.

Great job Hammy!!!! You are too fabulous!!!! Love you lots!!!  angel   cheerful   airplane   cheerful   cheerful   cheerful 
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:46 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 155):
Back to 4th?...What happened?!...

What they commentators said was the at one point LH showed third but it was druing the SC.

Button I don't really like, but I admit that it's good to see Rubens back there.

and it's 5.43am here ... off to bed as well!!
 
Alessandro
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:46 am

Kubica is what we call in Sweden an assclown!
 
BlueElephant
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:47 am



Quoting B747forever (Reply 156):
Congrats to Brawn GP, a 1-2 win. Just amazing. And Hamilton will get quite a lot of points after all. Luck on his side today to finish 4th

He was in the hunt for points in 6th....And that was honestly just fantastic driving on his part....the luck bought him 2 positions...and that was just Kubica and Vettel being stupid...

Kubica stupid for trying to take him when he had 3 laps to do it. and Vettel stupid for turning into him....Racing incident if you ask me...but It'll be interesting to see what the FIA officials do to drivers this year.
 
B747forever
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:50 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 160):
Vettel stupid for turning into him....

Vettel didnt turn into him. Vettel had the race lane, he couldnt move more to the right (or was it to the left?) because then he would drive outside of the track. Purely a mistake from Kubica.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:50 am

A technical question: are diffusers legal?  Confused Brawn is a diffusers team.

Also yes, Hammy had to retrograde to 3rd and leave the place back to Trulli because of safety car rules.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:00 am



Quoting B747forever (Reply 161):
Vettel didnt turn into him. Vettel had the race lane, he couldnt move more to the right (or was it to the left?) because then he would drive outside of the track. Purely a mistake from Kubica.

Suggesting that you don't know which direction Vettel had to turn....makes me feel you don't know what you're talking about.

I JUST watched the replay...TWICE...and it seemed that although both cars turned RIGHT into the corner...a clear left turn....into Kubica...allowed for the two cars to touch....I maintain...that it was a racing incident...and nobody's fault.


P.S. Trulli...WOW...3rd from the Pitlane!!! Impressive.

On another sidenote: Massive props to Trulli...for saying he was "just doing his job" and to Thank the Team...Both Barichello and Button...did little to thank their team...and only spoke about themselves...quite arrogant I think. They both owe Ross Brawn their jobs. He is the man who deserves the respect.
 
B747forever
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:03 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
I JUST watched the replay...TWICE

Could you please provide a link so we also can see the replay?

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
...Both Barichello and Button...did little to thank their team...and only spoke about themselves...quite arrogant I think

Actually they both thanked their team, several times.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:07 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
P.S. Trulli...WOW...3rd from the Pitlane!!! Impressive.

Jarno Trulli is full time in Monaco. I got to meet him in perrson a couple of times. He is very nice and humble and not a show off.

Well I hope McLaren will fix the cars so they perform better. Hammy is totally fab'. Heikki was one of the no luck boys today.  Sad
 
waterpolodan
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:12 am



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):

On another sidenote: Massive props to Trulli...for saying he was "just doing his job" and to Thank the Team...Both Barichello and Button...did little to thank their team...and only spoke about themselves...quite arrogant I think. They both owe Ross Brawn their jobs. He is the man who deserves the respect.

Did you even watch the interview? They may have been slightly less humble than Trulli, but that is because they didn't luck into the podium like he did. They thanked the team profusely both today and yesterday after qualifying, and so what if they are a little bit proud of themselves? They're on top of the podium! Nothing selfish about anything they said, IMO.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:26 am

From the BBC Sports site:

""0922: McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh reveals on the F1 Forum that race officials are definitely looking at how Jarno Trulli came to overtake Lewis Hamilton during the safety car period (see lap 57 below). For the record, Trulli spun and Hamilton stole third while the safety car was out, a position the Toyota driver took back under safety car conditions. Whether Hamilton has any claim to third or not could come down to how severe Trulli's spin was.""

 Confused  Wow!
 
TSV
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:35 am



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 128):
There was a race on the 1970ies with a fan in the back of the car, Nikki Lauda won that race at Anderstorp, Sweden, it was banned in the next race.

Banned because it was a moveable aerodynamic device. Read up on it to find out how it was allowed to race it the first place.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 129):
Yes, it was the Brabham BT46 and Lauda won the Swedish GP in 1978. And the FIA banned this system because it could suck in gravels and throw them out trough the rear fan.

It was banned because it was a moveable aerodynamic device.
 
sudden
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:37 am

First off, BIG congrats to Brawn GP and their drivers!!!
And very well done to Trulli starting from the pit, and secure P3.

About the incident between Kubica and Vettel,
I for one don't think you can blame anyone, and I'm glad they were fighting for the spot. A clear and present race incident. And if you don't try, you don't know either.
Kubica tried, and it didn't work out. So be it.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
Both Barichello and Button...did little to thank their team.

Both of them were very greatful towards the team, and couldn't have thanked them enough really!
Before they entered the podium, they were also very greatful towards Brawn in person, hugging and thanking him for a great car.
So I don't really understand you on that one.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
 
aerobalance
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:42 am



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 147):
And I hope not only Ferrari, but to ther teams to get their act together because if not we are looking forward to a single dominator (=boring races).

I'll take anybody else winning all of the races except the red and silver cars...

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
I JUST watched the replay...TWICE...and it seemed that although both cars turned RIGHT into the corner...a clear left turn....into Kubica...allowed for the two cars to touch....I maintain...that it was a racing incident...and nobody's fault.

Looked like Vettel turned in early and was kicked out wide by the curb, also, Why the f*ck was Kubica trying to pass him there? Dumb-ass was so much faster then Vettel, did he thinhk he could catch Button thus was impatient with Vettel?
 
bapilot2b
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:49 am

What a race, and I have to say the rule changes have brought life into the racing. I know the SC made things just that little bit closer than it would have been but again...thats racing!

Fantastic to see almost a complete reversal of the grid compared to last year.

Brawn has dragged the old Honda team forwards kicking and screaming and I bet Honda are now kicking themselves at selling up... however, i do believe if the Brawn cars had a Honda engine they would be fighting in the middle of the grid with Force India et al. The Mclaren mercedes engines are just right for them and are giving them the performance they need.

Yet another very poor start to the season for Ferrari where yet again they will have crisis meetings to bring an improvement.

No doubt Mclaren are in the same position however 4th from 18th is not such a bad result, tactics and luck bringing them to the front. Plenty of what ifs and buts about Heikki if he didn't have that bump on lap 1.

And that accident 3 or 4 laps from the end of the race from Vettel/Kubica. I have to say I feel it is 50/50 blame, but come on guys, give them credit. They raced to the end, literally, where other drivers may have just held back to cement the position they have. Not many drivers seem to 'race' anymore and this season everyone has to change otherwise your not going to get a point.

As for KERS.... complete waste of time and money. If the FIA were so interested in cost saving why the hell introduce this which is very expensive to develop and implement. I can see where it helped in a couple of instances but just look at some of the maneuvers the non-KERS cars made i.e Barrichello...

And now Vettel/Kubica and Hamilton/Trulli been investigated by the stewards, will be very interesting to see the outcome but I feel the Vettel/Kubica incident was just a racing incident and no need to penalise.
 
astuteman
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:35 am



Quoting National757 (Reply 1):
Would be nice to see an underdog team like Brawn GP pull off an upset

Fingers crossed, eh?  bigthumbsup 

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 163):
Both Barichello and Button...did little to thank their team...and only spoke about themselves...quite arrogant I think

*Pinches cheek.*

I have to say that from the planet that I was watching from, the team spirit displayed by the Brawn GP team was awesome, and with obvious "drivers", given the winter that they've had.

A great GP, I thought, full of drama, surprise and interest, with a fairytale finish to boot. I'm made up for JB and RB...

And, after 12 years, a timely reminder that there is one, and only one, real theme tune to F1.

Eternal thanks to Fleetwood Mac for providing that AWESOME soundtrack  cloudnine 

Rgds
 
TristarAtLCA
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:53 am

Hamilton promoted to third. Trulli penalised 25 seconds for overtaking under SC. May explain the confusion when Hamilton appeared third. Toyota to appeal.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74053

Vettel penalised 10 grid places for Malaysia. More soon.

[Edited

2009-03-29 03:00:27]

[Edited 2009-03-29 03:11:02]

[Edited 2009-03-29 03:15:02]

[Edited 2009-03-29 03:25:02]
 
baroque
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:00 am



Quoting Tsv (Reply 127):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 109):
The authorities banned it on the grounds that if the skirts failed and and car experienced a sudden loss of downforce it could literally flip away into the air. Not a nice thing to happen if you're cornering at high speed.

Skirts were banned because the governing body eventually realised they shouldn't have been allowed in the first place because they were a movable aerodynamic device and movable aerodynamic devices had been banned since the first (high) wings of the late 60s.

At least one form of the skirts was not movable and was not any more liable to sudden failure than for example wings. The GLYS program was pretty clear the problem was that turbo cars could not get the same air flow. The easiest way to reduce the value of the suction was to increase the clearance to the road.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 155):
Back to 4th?...What happened?!...Confused...Great result though for him....talk about Damage Control...

Between the up sun lighting and the (lack of) balance between the commentators and the background noise, it was pretty difficult to know what was happening a fair bit of the time. I think we more or less know what a GP car sounds like, how about a bit more commentary and a bit less BRRRRMMMM??

Seems the V-K Colliders effectively worked as an LH Collider benefit fund???
 
CXB77L
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:16 am

It was indeed a fantastic race, Ross Brawn and Sir Richard must both be very happy with the result. To me, it was rather unexpected. I was hoping for a good finish by Rosberg, but alas, that pitstop ruined it for him. In the end, his tyres were starting to wear out, and was very lucky to pick up two points from the Vettel/Kubica incident.

I see most of you are rather diplomatic when it comes to the incident itself. Personally, I thought it was 60/40 Vettel's fault. Kubica was in front at the time he turned in, albeit not by much. I think that Vettel could've chosen to back off, and/or Kubica could've chosen to give Vettel a bit more racing room. I agree that there should be no penalty, but the FIA seems to be rather trigger-happy when it comes to penalising incidents (Hamilton / Raikkonen at Spa, for instance), so I wouldn't put it past them to give a penalty to either or both of them.
 
milan320
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:35 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 170):
Looked like Vettel turned in early and was kicked out wide by the curb, also, Why the f*ck was Kubica trying to pass him there? Dumb-ass was so much faster then Vettel, did he thinhk he could catch Button thus was impatient with Vettel?

Actually Vettel's fault and he admits it and apologised. He should have let Kubi through:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5117481,00.html

/Milan320
 
CXB77L
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 am

I spoke too soon ...

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=37367

Vettel has just been awarded a 10-grid slot penalty, plus a $50000 fine, altough according to the article, both penalties were for not immediately pulling off the racetrack after the car was damaged. Perhaps it's not acceptable to do a Gilles Villeneuve anymore ...
 
milan320
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:42 am

Even more info here now, Vettel at fault. Red Bull fined, $ 50,000

http://f1.uk.reuters.com/teams/t9/news/SP393497.php

/Milan320
 
CXB77L
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:18 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Yes, apparently the Pitpass article was incorrect. The "official" F1 site stated that Vettel was deemed to be at fault for the collision. The additional fine was for driving a damaged car.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/3/9098.html
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:10 am

Wow, lots of messages while I was sleeping  Wink

I watched the replay of the race. I'm very happy for Brawn and Button! Hamilton can be happy to finish third. The same for Bourdais finishing 8!

Let's see if eveyone can confirm next week in Malaysia!
 
sudden
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:33 pm

Lets not forget Buemi!
Lots of credit to him for ending 7th in his first F1 race!

Well done!

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:33 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 174):
At least one form of the skirts was not movable and was not any more liable to sudden failure than for example wings.

Which form of skirts? The "brush" skirts introduced in 1977 on the Lotus 78?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 174):
The GLYS program was pretty clear the problem was that turbo cars could not get the same air flow.

I remember that program but didn't get that impression from it. What I remember was it came down to each teams ability to eliminate or at least control porpoising and reduce induced drag from "incorrectly" designed venturis.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 174):
The easiest way to reduce the value of the suction was to increase the clearance to the road.

Well yes but the thrust was to make it an "open" inefficient aerodynamic system with resultant leakage (which is also what happened with porposing) and not a "closed" efficient aerodynamic system. Banning moveable skirts and fixing the minimum clearance led to the stupid suspension systems in 1981 of when racing drop it down and have no suspension movement like a go-kart and then when having to clear the legal height in the pits flick in the "Citroen" style suspension and lo and behold clear the legal height.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:15 pm

It's the first time that a new team make 1 and 2 for their first GP since... Mercedes in the French GP 1954! Juan Manuel Fangio and Karl Kling were the drivers.
 
bapilot2b
Posts: 891
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 7:42 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Interestingly (I hope this doesnt happen as much as I like Hamilton), if the outcome of the appeal about the 'illegal' but legal diffusors means those teams results are thrown out....that would mean Hamilton 'Won' the race!

I would rather see the issue thrown out in the appeal court as the diffusors have already been checked twice by the scrutineering team from the FIA. As soon as the verdict is out if they are ruled 100% legal other teams will more than likely have them within 1 or 2 races.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:58 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 162):
A technical question: are diffusers legal? Confused Brawn is a diffusers team.



Quoting Bapilot2b (Reply 184):
if the outcome of the appeal about the 'illegal' but legal diffusors means those teams results are thrown out....that would mean Hamilton 'Won' the race!

Can someone explain the whole diffusors thing, please?
The diffusor themselves, what they do, and why they are deemed "illegal" while being used by some of the teams, Brawn and Toyota for example.

 Confused
 
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EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:18 pm



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 170):
I'll take anybody else winning all of the races except the red and silver cars...

I mean anyone. During the pre season everyone was convinced that it was going to be a tight season between Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault and now Brawn, as well as the great prospects of drivers like Vettel, Lubica, etc.
And today's race in that sense was boring (for first place). That's why I hope everyone else catches up to Brawn to have more interesting races, because let's face it, if Brawn domiinates the next 10 races like today, F1 won'r be as interesting, as it wasn't during the Schumi years. It was fun for Ferrari fans, but it was not an interesting season.

rgds
 
B747forever
Posts: 13909
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:27 pm

Really pity for Trulli to lose the 3rd place. And now it means that Hamilton will leave this race with 6points! That is really good considering McLaren didnt expect anything good from this race. Remember, each point counts, the two last season has shown us that.
 
BlueElephant
Posts: 1662
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:16 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:50 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 164):
Could you please provide a link so we also can see the replay?

Looks like Vettel was given his penalty and it was deemed himself...sorry couldn't provide a link..was watching it on DVR. I still think it was more of a racing incident, but if anyway is to be penalized it should be Vettel in this case.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 164):
Actually they both thanked their team, several times.



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 166):
Did you even watch the interview? They may have been slightly less humble than Trulli,



Quoting Sudden (Reply 169):
Before they entered the podium, they were also very greatful towards Brawn in person, hugging and thanking him for a great car.

I guess what I said was a bit harsh...lets put it this way...After all the trouble the team went through over the off season. I would hope they would have acted more like Trulli. I also sent me message before their final comments where they were gracious for the team...I guess also forgot to take into account that when the Champagne was sprayed both the men went straight to Ross Brawn. I was just a little frustrated when Button and Barichello started talking it sounded as if Eye-Brown Man Alonso was telling the press how he it was all him.

Apologies if I sounded Harsh.
 
sudden
Posts: 3936
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:55 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 188):
Apologies if I sounded Harsh.

Accepted, but if this happens again we will have to arrange a permanent ban on Anet for you young man! Big grin

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
 
waterpolodan
Posts: 1628
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:46 pm

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:25 pm



Quoting Tsv (Reply 168):

It was banned because it was a moveable aerodynamic device.

Well, they did ban it for that reason, but at the GP meeting in Sweden, the other drivers complained about it on safety grounds saying it was shooting gravel at their cars, because they thought that if the governing body accepted the Brabham team's BS claim that the fan was just for engine cooling, then they could get it banned on safety grounds rather than as a violation of the movable aero devices rule.

As for this weekend's race, I wish I'd bet my life savings on Brawn a few weeks ago! Fantastic result. It is rather illuminating to look at the fastest laps of the race for each driver, it really highlights the order of the teams-

1 16 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:27.706
2 5 Robert Kubica BMW 1:27.988
3 22 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 1:28.020
4 15 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1:28.140
5 6 Nick Heidfeld BMW 1:28.283
6 10 Timo Glock Toyota 1:28.416
7 4 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:28.488
8 14 Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:28.508
9 7 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:28.712
10 9 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:28.916
11 20 Adrian Sutil Force India-Ferrari 1:28.943
12 21 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India 1:29.005
13 1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:29.020
14 23 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 1:29.066
15 3 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:29.141
16 12 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:29.230
17 11 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:29.823
18 17 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:29.923
19 8 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:30.502

For one thing, it is obvious that the overall grid is much closer than it was last year, so that is a bit surprising given the amount of rule changes. Another conclusion is that Brawn doesn't have the advantage in race trim that it would at first appear, unless they were sandbagging. Perhaps their car is more consistently fast over a full race distance and the BMW and Williams are faster at their optimum moment with the tires and temps, but then they fall off quickly? In any case, it looks like BMW, Williams, and Brawn all did their homework and should be very competitive this year. As for the old "big 3", it looks like Ferrari has a slight edge over Mclaren and Renault, but they'll have to work very hard to catch up with the front runners. Mclaren was even outpaced by the Force India cars! That is shocking to me, I know they lucked into a podium but they're going to have a very long year if they can't keep pace with Sutil and Fisi. Also, it's amazing to me how much slower the STR cars are than the red bulls, considering the chassis is basically the same. I guess the packaging of the Ferrari engine makes things difficult for them.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:44 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 185):
Can someone explain the whole diffusors thing, please?
The diffusor themselves, what they do, and why they are deemed "illegal" while being used by some of the teams, Brawn and Toyota for example.


If I understand things right it helps the downforce a lot, that´s why Brawn team ended up 1-2
(with a little help of their friends Vettel and Kubica) even without KERS. Illegal I don´t know, I think if they change the result long after on the Australian GP 2009, it´ll be a big scandal, something that should be avoided. Toyota been penalised a lot this race, first in qualifications and then in the race (Trulli), would be strange if they lost the 4th place also... Sad
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:47 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 190):
For one thing, it is obvious that the overall grid is much closer than it was last year, so that is a bit surprising given the amount of rule changes. Another conclusion is that Brawn doesn't have the advantage in race trim that it would at first appear, unless they were sandbagging. Perhaps their car is more consistently fast over a full race distance and the BMW and Williams are faster at their optimum moment with the tires and temps, but then they fall off quickly? In any case, it looks like BMW, Williams, and Brawn all did their homework and should be very competitive this year. As for the old "big 3", it looks like Ferrari has a slight edge over Mclaren and Renault, but they'll have to work very hard to catch up with the front runners. Mclaren was even outpaced by the Force India cars! That is shocking to me, I know they lucked into a podium but they're going to have a very long year if they can't keep pace with Sutil and Fisi. Also, it's amazing to me how much slower the STR cars are than the red bulls, considering the chassis is basically the same. I guess the packaging of the Ferrari engine makes things difficult for them.

Well, Force India and McLaren runs on the same engine I think, so on certain tracks they can be faster, best result ever for Force India with 9th.
McLaren and Brawn runs on also on the same engines so I don´t agree that Ferrari got an advantage.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:51 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 187):
Really pity for Trulli to lose the 3rd place. And now it means that Hamilton will leave this race with 6points! That is really good considering McLaren didnt expect anything good from this race. Remember, each point counts, the two last season has shown us that.

Well, I don´t think that McLaren had so low expectations, Brawn runs on the same engine.
 
Alessandro
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:53 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 186):
mean anyone. During the pre season everyone was convinced that it was going to be a tight season between Mclaren, Ferrari, Renault and now Brawn, as well as the great prospects of drivers like Vettel, Lubica, etc.
And today's race in that sense was boring (for first place). That's why I hope everyone else catches up to Brawn to have more interesting races, because let's face it, if Brawn domiinates the next 10 races like today, F1 won'r be as interesting, as it wasn't during the Schumi years. It was fun for Ferrari fans, but it was not an interesting season.

rgds

Kubica is his name, I don´t think that Brawn was as dominate today as certain teams has been in the past, rather lucky to get to 2nd place for Rubens.
 
Alessandro
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:55 pm



Quoting Bapilot2b (Reply 184):
Interestingly (I hope this doesnt happen as much as I like Hamilton), if the outcome of the appeal about the 'illegal' but legal diffusors means those teams results are thrown out....that would mean Hamilton 'Won' the race!

I would rather see the issue thrown out in the appeal court as the diffusors have already been checked twice by the scrutineering team from the FIA. As soon as the verdict is out if they are ruled 100% legal other teams will more than likely have them within 1 or 2 races.

It would be a disaster for the sport, like Ben Johnson being caught after the 1988 olympic gold.
 
scrubbsywg
Posts: 1097
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:35 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 185):
Can someone explain the whole diffusors thing, please?
The diffusor themselves, what they do, and why they are deemed "illegal" while being used by some of the teams, Brawn and Toyota for example.

ALL cars in f1 have diffusers. Ferrari, mclaren, force india, etc. all have diffusers on the back of their cars. Even some road cars have diffusers built in(mostly higher end sports cars).

A diffuser is basically part of the far back underbody of the car. When a car is driving, air is forced underneath the car where it accelerates and loses pressure. As it moves along the length of the car, it must then exit the car when it reaches the back. The diffuser is a sculpted piece that allows this fast moving low pressure air to slow down and increase in pressure in order to get closer to the ambient air pressure.

Diffusers do two things. They decrease wake drag by equalizing the air pressure of the air leaving under the car with the ambient air pressure. And they create downforce using differential air pressure(higher pressure above the car, lower pressure below the car=downforce). The big advantage of diffusers is they produce a large amount of downforce relative to the amount of drag they produce. This is unlike wings, winglets, barge boards, etc. that have a significant drag effect.

The diffusers being used by Brawn, toyota, and williams are not illegal. They have been passed by the scrutineer and also during a protest, so while the protest decision is being appealed, in my eyes, and in the FIA's eyes, they are in fact legal.

The issue is that brawn, toyota, and williams read the rules an determined that the middle area of the is allowed to have body work(as stated in the rules) that they would use for a diffuser. The three teams determined they could still be within the rules, and essentially make a bigger(i.e. better) diffuser using a double decker approach. The 7 other teams, for whatever reason, decided not to do this.

I can only assume that after the protest was heard, that the three diffusers adhere to the letter of the rules. The teams are appealing it based on the three teams breaking the "spirit" of the rules...
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
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RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:29 pm



Quoting BAPILOT2B (Reply 171):
As for KERS.... complete waste of time and money. If the FIA were so interested in cost saving why the hell introduce this which is very expensive to develop and implement.

I heard during the transmission that in the case of Robert Kubica, despite the weight loss, he was still too heavy to even allow the possibility of installing KERS. I agree though, I don't see what's the point about KERS.

Too bad about Vettel's error though, he showed today that the potential for something big is still there and that he can also dominate a race in the dry, and not just in the wet like in Monza last year. And while I do congratulate the Superbrain and his two "minions" Jenson and Rubinho for a fantastic race, we still have to wait and see how the rest of the eason will go for them. They have to show more consistency which, if Ross Brawn hasn't lost his skills during his sabattical, should be possible.
 
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EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:05 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 194):
I don´t think that Brawn was as dominate today as certain teams has been in the past, rather lucky to get to 2nd place for Rubens.

I disagree. Yes, Rubens was lucky to get 2nd, but that was because he had a bad start. Had he had a decent start it would have been a 1-2 all the way.
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4961
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: 2009 Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix

Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 197):
I heard during the transmission that in the case of Robert Kubica, despite the weight loss, he was still too heavy to even allow the possibility of installing KERS. I agree though, I don't see what's the point about KERS.

Too bad about Vettel's error though, he showed today that the potential for something big is still there and that he can also dominate a race in the dry, and not just in the wet like in Monza last year. And while I do congratulate the Superbrain and his two "minions" Jenson and Rubinho for a fantastic race, we still have to wait and see how the rest of the eason will go for them. They have to show more consistency which, if Ross Brawn hasn't lost his skills during his sabattical, should be possible.

KERS is very important to justify Formula-1, environmental concern is a very important market arguement. Just like Sebastien Loeb got KERS on his C4.

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