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yak42
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My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:46 am

Well I've just got back from seeing a really life changing film for me, The Age of Stupid by director Franny Armstrong. It has put me completley off flying and planes. I was always half aware that they are very polluting but this film really brought it home to me how damaging aviation is. I really want to cut flying out of my life now as much as I can unless maybe I get a job where its essential. I am thinking of perhaps taking one last return flight sometime soon just to kind of say goodbye to my former obsession. My sister works for Emirates and so I get one 90% discount flight each year and I think I will visit her in Dubai, then thats it I swear. I have replaced the Yakovlev yak42 as my desktop background with a bullet train, I have deleted all my aviation related bookmarks and I am no longer going to contribute to this or any other aviation related forum unless it is to do with reducing flying or scaling back the aviation industries.
I know just myself stopping it is not going to stop planes taking off. But if we all just use that as a reason to continue, then there is no possibility stopping it. Im kind of resigned to the idea that whatever I do personally we're all f**ked. I just want to stop being such a disproportionate part of the problem (most people dont fly afterall) and live more sustainably. It will make me feel just a little bit less guilty when it all turns to s**t. When Im told what im doing is stupid and wrong and why and I stop, then in the future when it affects me more directly I dont have to hate myself so much. Its not fuzzy logic: You dont shit where you eat.

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Aircraft have suddenly become a whole lot less attractive to me now I have come to equate them with gas flares and stupid patio heaters. Before I thoght of them as beautiful and powerful things that soared in the air but now they just seem counter-productive, energy wasting and damaging. They solve one problem of how to get from A to B fast while making another bigger problem. Its hard to get my head around it since I have loved them for so long!
Please tell me what you think about it. As a former aviation enthusiast Id like to hear your thoughts.
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av8orwalk
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:47 am

We're gonna miss you!

Cheers
Drew MCO
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DingDong
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:52 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
But if we all just use that as a reason to continue, then there is no possibility stopping it. Im kind of resigned to the idea that whatever I do personally we're all f**ked. I just want to stop being such a disproportionate part of the problem (most people dont fly afterall) and live more sustainably. It will make me feel just a little bit less guilty when it all turns to s**t. When Im told what im doing is stupid and wrong and why and I stop, then in the future when it affects me more directly I dont have to hate myself so much. Its not fuzzy logic: You dont shit where you eat.

Wow... I have to admire your courage and conscience. I trust you will be bicycling to school or work now, every single day without fail for sake of maintaining a clear conscience?
DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:52 am

As damaging as they are there is far worse out there, and in all honesty 100 people jumping into a 737 for a couple hours to get from A to B is better than everyone driving their truck down and back...


CanadianNorth
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louA340
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:54 am

Wow, you just might as well stop using any form of automobile now and walk.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:54 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
They solve one problem of how to get from A to B fast while making another bigger problem.

What percentage of greenhouse gas emissions come from aircraft?

That number isn't very big, and it also obscures another important point: that there's not a good alternative to emissions from aircraft. We can produce electricity from nuclear or other non-emitting sources (obviously, some of these have their own problems). Every month, car manufacturers make progress on emission reductions. Why not go after the low-hanging fruit and then reassess where we are? No one who thinks seriously about air pollution suggests that a 100% reduction in emissions is either desirable or attainable.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dl767captain
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:57 am

You could say the same thing about your car though, after cutting out aircraft your car will become the top pollution contributor in your life. Instead of giving up completely on aviation why not try and be part of the solution by contributing to alternative fuels and voting for stricter emission standards. With planes like the 787 it's not like the aviation industry isn't paying attention, it's just not an easy thing to fix all at once.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):

Planes pollute less than cars especially on long haul. Let me give you an example I have used over and over, and since I'm engineer, I love using math to prove people wrong.

Let's look at a plane - specifically a Boeing 767-200 - flying from Altanta, Georgia to Portland, Oregon. Back in 2005 I flew this route and the pilot told us before takeoff that we would burn 8,000 gallons of jet fuel enroute. The plane was pretty full so let's so there were 150 passengers on board. Each person's share of fuel for this flight is 53.3 gallons of fuel.

Now lets look at if these 150 passengers drove there. Assuming most people are travelling by themselves, lets say 100 cars make the trip from ATL to PDX instead of one plane. According to mapquest, it's about 2600 miles by interstate (Just FYI, ATL-PDX is about 2200 miles in the air). Let's say the average car making the trip gets 26 mph highway to keep things simple - thats 100 gallons of fuel per vehicle making the trip, multiplied by 100 cars = 10,000 of fuel consumed, 2000 gallons more than the 767-200, which is an older and less efficient plane than today's more modern models.
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B747forever
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:58 am

Do you drive a car?

That is far more damaging than flying. I dont get this when people always blame aviation for damaging the earth, but the main problem is transportation on roads (cars/trucks/buses).
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
yak42
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 3):
As damaging as they are there is far worse out there, and in all honesty 100 people jumping into a 737 for a couple hours to get from A to B is better than everyone driving their truck down and back...


CanadianNorth

Actually no it isnt. All the passengers driving their own vehicle from A to B is nowhere near as damaging. Thats how bad it is!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:03 am



Quoting YAK42 (Reply 9):
All the passengers driving their own vehicle from A to B is nowhere near as damaging. Thats how bad it is!

Perhaps you could share some numbers with us...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
TSS
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:04 am



Quoting YAK42 (Reply 9):
Actually no it isnt. All the passengers driving their own vehicle from A to B is nowhere near as damaging. Thats how bad it is!

Sez who? Let's have some quotes and some numbers to either prove or refute. "Because I say so" is not a valid argument.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
af773atmsp
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:10 am

The airplane manufacturers of the world are the solution to polluting planes. The A350, 787, 747-8, C Series all will have fuel efficiency. Its probably won't take a year for aircraft manufacturers to build planes using a new source of fuel that is less polluting, but someday we'll get there. I say keep enjoying planes. Planes aren't going to destroy the world.
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DUALRATED
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:13 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
You dont shit where you eat.

I promise you that we humans will blow the world up long, long before any of the green issues kill it.
AIRLINERS.NET MODERATORS SUCK MOOSE DICK!!!!
 
0newair0
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:17 am

I hope you know that automobiles generate far more pollution than all of the aircraft in the world do. Also, cows, YES COWS, generate more greenhouse gases than all modes of transportation combined (So says the U.N.)!

My advice, NEVER give up ANYTHING because of one movie, one article, one anything that is prepared for you in a neat little package. Do your OWN research and make your OWN INFORMED decision. If you don't do this and just give up aviation, or anything else for that matter, I think you're making a very asinine decision. VERY ASININE!

Sorry for being harsh. I just hate it when people do not examine everything that they hear/read/see.

Oh, P.S., better be careful of what clothes you wear, what products you buy. Heaven forbid that somewhere along the way to your hands the product was in a factory that was powered by a coal power plant in the US, China, somewhere.

[Edited 2009-03-24 20:26:00]
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ab1247
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:23 am

You watched a movie. Don't let that define the rest of your life. Mission-specific documentaries, no matter where they point, tend to portray a certain obsession.

Also being an engineer, please consider Reply 7. In this world, it is a question of the complete modal split (how you get to work, on vacation, etc.). Additionally, if you would like to make a difference, insulate your house/apartment. Building mechanicals (heating/AC) account for over 30% of our energy usage. Then, consider "writing your congressman" about the use of lignite/coal for the majority of your power needs. Enough said. Air transport has adverse effects on atmospheric equilibria, but it is still a relatively small slice compared to other lifestyle choices that actually matter. You can starve yourself of all air transport, but it will be dwarfed by many other more practical changes.
 
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glen
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:31 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 7):
Now lets look at if these 150 passengers drove there. Assuming most people are travelling by themselves, lets say 100 cars make the trip from ATL to PDX instead of one plane.

What about a train or bus...or people sharing a car? They are not alone in the plane as well.
There is no sense in talking down the immense quantity of resources we burn and the pollution which results from it.
On the other hand flying is the fastest and nicest way to travel over long distances. And as this site proves, aviation is just an amazing field of different interests. I have fallen in love with aviation since years without deny its problematic aspects.
Why can't we love something without accepting it's deficiencies - why does it have to be either blind love or hate?
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skygirl
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
You dont shit where you eat.

And yet, we shit in perfectly good potable drinking water. Stew on that for a minute.

I'm not going to cover the logistics of planes vs other modes of transportation being damaging, mostly because others have covered it better than I can.

What I don't get is why you all of a sudden have to stop appreciating aviation. Seriously, you can delete your background, and stop flying, but as you said it's not going to stop that plane from taking off. Infact, it will probably allow someone on an oversold flight to now have a seat so I'm sure they appreciate it.

Changes are being made. It's baby steps, but consider this - aviation is still new. It's been just over 100 years since the Wright brothers flew at Kitty Hawk. We're still learning, and we're finding ways to improve as we learn. Putting a bullet train on your computer screen will not make these changes

How about a more proactive approach - instead of not doing something and feeling better, why don't you apply yourself to researching and finding ways to improve things?
...Now they face an even greater danger...Tyrannousaurs in F-14's!!
 
yak42
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:38 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Perhaps you could share some numbers with us...

Right did some research there http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/10/1/181114/667 and seems I was a bit hasty to say each person driving alone. With at least two people in the car it is usually more efficient, but its complicated because a high proportion of the fuel is burnt on takeoff and landing so the shorter the flight the less efficient it is. Connecting flights also make things alot less efficient with an extra takeoff and landing for each connection. A longhaul return flight is likely to contribute more than a drivers whole year of driving in Europe.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:46 am

Well, seeing as how the Earth has been around for quite awhile longer than mankind has existed on it, and I foresee my demise long before the Earth's, I will add his interest and love of planes and add in on top of mine. Therefore, I will take four plane trips tomorrow as opposed to just the two I had planned.
I for one am not too concerned about it due to my statement above. Call me cold or whatever, but I don't care! LOL.
I like to see people compare the last 300 years to the whole lifespan of Earth and think it is a big change going on here. Just like everything, Earth will evolve too and acclimate to its ongoing changes either natural or artificial ones. JMO.

Oh, and I am sure that his not flying will cut down on number of planes flying.
Tell me, did she use hijacked footage from a CG movie like Al Gore did? But that is another story.

I, for one, am happy to see that ex-Yak42 is following his heart and taking a stand. Good to see someone stand up for what they believe. But that is a two way street.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
ikramerica
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:47 am

Well the "a longhaul v. local driving" argument is pointless, because you are basically saying that "the act of doing something is more impactful than the act of not doing something" and who can argue with that?

The best way to have no impact whatsoever is just to end your life though. Then other than decaying, pollution will be minimized. And if you let yourself rot in a field, then you act as food for the earth as you decay.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:52 am

good for you. Most people are sheep, and right or wrong, thinking outside the box is healthy.

Aviation is very polluting, no question there.
That said, can it get better? Sure
Can it get to a point where it isn't burning fossil fuels to power through the air? Sure

I agree with the one poster who said: instead of bailing out, help out!
Talk to people, share your knowledge. Learn more yourself and make a positive impact.


Again, most people on this forum are sheep, so don't let their comments against your decision phase you. Keep up the good work, the world is built on the backs of the productive - not the quitters, make a difference!
 
0newair0
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:54 am

I'm sorry, but I am not a sheep.

[Edited 2009-03-24 20:54:51]
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
ikramerica
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:56 am



Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 22):
good for you. Most people are sheep, and right or wrong, thinking outside the box is healthy.

How is going to a biased documentary and then following it's premise blindly not being a sheep again?

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 23):
I'm sorry, but I am not a sheep.

Well, everyone is a sheep about some things in life, and everyone is a free thinker about others. There isn't enough energy in our brains to be a 100% outside the box thinker on all issues. We must accept many things as "the way they should be" in order to even function, otherwise we couldn't get up in the morning.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:58 am



Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 15):
Oh, P.S., better be careful of what clothes you wear, what products you buy. Heaven forbid that somewhere along the way to your hands the product was in a factory that was powered by a coal power plant in the US, China, somewhere.

I'm surprised it took so long in this thread before this point was brought up. There are far more contributors than just cars and planes that we all use. Just about everything in our modern lives have some kind of link to a source of pollution.

What about the video? Think about all the things that went into production of that video...production tools, equipment, travel to locations etc...how were they made? How were they put in the hands of the folks that put that video together? I am not familiar with this video, but do they travel to different parts of the world to speak to different experts etc? How did they get there? Were any aerial shots used for visuals? Again, I have not seen this film, but I am describing things common with documentaries.

It's like that scene in the movie Armageddon where the character played by Bruce Willis yells at the oil drilling protesters, something like "you know how many gallons of Diesel that boat consumes?!" He is of course, referring to the vessel all the protesters are standing on. Funny, huh?
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AussieAl
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:02 am

SYD to LAX

Row boat or swimming as an alterative. Don't fancy that.  Wink
 
0newair0
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:09 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
Well, everyone is a sheep about some things in life, and everyone is a free thinker about others. There isn't enough energy in our brains to be a 100% outside the box thinker on all issues. We must accept many things as "the way they should be" in order to even function, otherwise we couldn't get up in the morning.

How to brush my teeth, yes I'm sheepish. How to ride a bike, yes, guilty again, sheepish. How to walk, guilty again. How to buy a ticket on an airline.... well, I'm forced to be a sheep on that one, I tried to go down to the nearest grocery store and find a ticket in the "travel accessories" section but I couldn't find one.

My point is everyone knows that there are some things that simply "are the way they should be." Issues such as the one we are talking about do not fall in the same category. So, once again, I am not a sheep.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
chapavaeaa
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:11 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
My sister works for Emirates and so I get one 90% discount flight each year and I think I will visit her in Dubai, then thats it I swear.

Yak42, are you willing to never see your sister again after this one last flight? To get from Ireland to the continent across to Dubai would be a bit difficult via overland transportation. Should your sister move to Australia or South Africa the only way to get to her would be via ship.

I understand your passion, I don't agree with it personnelly but it is your life. I would caution you to do one thing however. Look at the movie again. Who produced it? Are they strictly following their suggestions? I haven't seen or heard of the movie to this point, but I'm a big "follow the money trail" person. Who financed the movie? Someone is promoting a message with this movie....I'd just be curious to see if they have sworn off all aircraft transportation as well. Are they really walking the walk and not just "talking the talk"?

In any event, I wish you the best of luck with sticking to your beliefs.
 
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Acey559
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:18 am

I took a corporate aviation class last semester and this subject came up, as there was an article about it in ATW at the time. I think the figure the author gave was about 2-3% of greenhouse gasses come from commercial airliners circling the globe. So, 97-98% of all gasses are caused by something other than aviation, and when you think about how many people are being moved, the figure is pretty minuscule. Please, don't believe all the biased media attention towards aviation, because most of it is unfounded. Aviation seems like an easy target because of all the fuel that is consumed on a given flight, but it's really not all that much when put into context. I'm sorry you've given up on aviation, but it'll be there should you see the light and decide to come back (hopefully  Wink).

PS I did a search on the ATW web site but I couldn't find the article I read in class, so if anyone else can find it I'd appreciate it. If I remember correctly it was around early to mid-winter. Thanks.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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TWA757
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:20 am

According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N., factory farming is responsible for 18% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions -- which is more than all forms of transportation combined.

Though taking the train on shorter routes is a good way to help the environment, the best way to reduce your environmental footprint is to eat less meat.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7600005.stm
 
tdscanuck
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:26 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
Before I thoght of them as beautiful and powerful things that soared in the air but now they just seem counter-productive, energy wasting and damaging.

You're forgetting the key caveat when it comes to talking about aviation energy consumption...compared to *what*?

Yes, in absolute numbers, airplanes are ferocious power consumers (second only to rockets, and a few military vehicles). However, you need to look at the mission they're doing. Comparing an airplane to a car is essentially non-sensical because when you include time in the equation (and you must, as time is just as real a resource as energy) a car is not a viable alternative for the vast majority of airplane routes. If the route involves an ocean, the mission can't be done by car at all (you drag ships into it, and if you think an airplane is bad check out ferries...).

Quoting GLEN (Reply 17):
On the other hand flying is the fastest and nicest way to travel over long distances.

Fastest yes, nicest no (unless you're flying business/first). Flying's chief advantage is speed, which is a big part of the reason it's so power intensive.

Quoting YAK42 (Reply 19):
With at least two people in the car it is usually more efficient, but its complicated because a high proportion of the fuel is burnt on takeoff and landing so the shorter the flight the less efficient it is. Connecting flights also make things alot less efficient with an extra takeoff and landing for each connection.

Have you actually run the numbers on that? Fuel per seat generally gets better, fast, with increasing sized aircraft. If you don't do connecting flights (i.e. hub and spoke) you have to run a lot more smaller aircraft between a lot more cities. Point-to-point is great for convenience and overall operating costs, but I'd be pretty surprised if it's actually more fuel efficient.

Tom.
 
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afterburner
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:26 am

One thing that we may have forgotten, or simply do not realize, is that commercial aviation feeds millions of people in third world countries. Passenger airplanes bring tourists (and their money) from developed countries to tourist destinations (while business trips can be substituted by high-tech telecommunications, tourism can't). Cargo airplanes bring fresh food and flowers from these poor countries. So, I believe that commercial aviation is doing more good things than the bad ones to this world.
 
iad51fl
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:31 am

Reading these posts have made me want to take another around the world trip.....

IAH-GSP-EWR-DUB-LHR-HKG-NRT-IAH.... maybe with all the "Plane Stupid" people not flying there will be some open seats.... woo hoo  Smile

Chris
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:36 am



Quoting YAK42 (Reply 19):
A longhaul return flight is likely to contribute more than a drivers whole year of driving in Europe.

A longhaul return flight will also get you from CDG to SFO....what's your point?

By the way, how is your solar panel getting the sunshine needed to power your computer at this time of day? For that matter, where can one purchase these miracle solar panels and computers the required zero petrochemicals to produce?

I hope the movie you watched was in the form of a petroglyph flip book....because Blu-Ray is far from carbon-neutral...

I leave you all with this gem:

.
 
TN486
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:37 am



Quoting Ab1247 (Reply 16):
You watched a movie. Don't let that define the rest of your life. Mission-specific documentaries, no matter where they point, tend to portray a certain obsession.

Also being an engineer, please consider Reply 7. In this world, it is a question of the complete modal split (how you get to work, on vacation, etc.). Additionally, if you would like to make a difference, insulate your house/apartment. Building mechanicals (heating/AC) account for over 30% of our energy usage. Then, consider "writing your congressman" about the use of lignite/coal for the majority of your power needs. Enough said. Air transport has adverse effects on atmospheric equilibria, but it is still a relatively small slice compared to other lifestyle choices that actually matter. You can starve yourself of all air transport, but it will be dwarfed by many other more practical changes



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 20):
, for one, am happy to see that ex-Yak42 is following his heart and taking a stand. Good to see someone stand up for what they believe. But that is a two way street.



Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 22):
agree with the one poster who said: instead of bailing out, help out!
Talk to people, share your knowledge. Learn more yourself and make a positive impact

Yak 42, You are entitled to, and I respect you, for your opinions. IMHO you may wish to take a step back and reflect on the above quoted postings, cheers mate, you only have one life, enjoy it to the fullest however way you wish (within the confines of common law).
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:38 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
I really want to cut flying out of my life now as much as I can unless maybe I get a job where its essential.

So you mean you are willing to forgo this new-found position on saving the world, unless it doesn't suit you career wise or economically? Rather an empty gesture don't you think?
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:44 am

Today I had FUN destroying the enviroment. I went up (all by myself) and went flying, and did nothing in particular and returned to the SAME airport I departed from. So essentially I traveled by myself and just returned back to where I started, with out doing nothing (except have fun), and you know what? I do not feel bad what so ever (not in the smallest form) bad for what I did, infact I enjoyed it.

As you say we are f*cked anyhow, why go down without enjoying life, get out there - do what ever you want and as long as you are not pouring barrels of oil down the drain, enjoy life!
Keep the shinny side up!
 
vt977
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 5:09 pm

RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:05 am

Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
I really want to cut flying out of my life now as much as I can unless maybe I get a job where its essential. I am thinking of perhaps taking one last return flight sometime soon just to kind of say goodbye to my former obsession. My sister works for Emirates and so I get one 90% discount flight each year and I think I will visit her in Dubai, then thats it I swear. I have replaced the Yakovlev yak42 as my desktop background with a bullet train, I have deleted all my aviation related bookmarks and I am no longer going to contribute to this or any other aviation related forum unless it is to do with reducing flying or scaling back the aviation industries.

If you are so concerned about the environment then why fly to Dubai...wont that add to the pollution.. and how is replacing the YAKOVLEV YAK42 background with a bullet train going to help...

[Edited 2009-03-24 22:07:39]
A conclusion is what you reach when you get tired of thinking.
 
4holer
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:09 am

Does valium emit greenhouse gasses?

Anyone who totally buys into obvious propaganda pieces whether made by Michael Moore, Al Gore, Nazis, or Franny Whoever has lost the capacity for independent and critical thought. I don't admire such misplaced passion but rather mourn the loss of the love of aviation the original poster once had.

Aviation is indeed a easy target as we can all look up and see planes roaring by. But to point fingers in the sky at them is to distract you from the big picture down here. Make reasonable changes if you like, but to ruin your life serves no purpose.

Life will give you enough real things to worry about without such invented crises.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
platinumfoota
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:12 am

I respect your decision as I would expect others to do so, you will be missed. In other news, I took my 7 year old nephew to the LAX hill last week and he told me he wanted to be a pilot  highfive 
Never forget United 93
 
heathrow
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:17 am

No offence, but why don't you just go join the rest of the protesters at STN?
Aviation is much less damaging than lets say oil retrieval, logging, automobiles, and many other industries. I'm sorry you feel this way, but nothing will EVER be mroe beautiful to me than the sight of a concorde at rotation.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:19 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):

Aircraft have suddenly become a whole lot less attractive to me now I have come to equate them with gas flares and stupid patio heaters. Before I thoght of them as beautiful and powerful things that soared in the air but now they just seem counter-productive, energy wasting and damaging.

The problem is that unless you are going to walk, sail, or take a kangaroo-drawn carriage, ANY travel leaves a huge carbon footprint. And of all forms of travel, modern aircraft make the smallest footprint per distance with the possible exception of high-speed rail (which can be carbon-free, depending on energy source).

So unless you are done traveling forever, planes aren't as bad as you think.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
TSS
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:19 am



Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 38):
As you say we are f*cked anyhow, why go down without enjoying life, get out there - do what ever you want and as long as you are not pouring barrels of oil down the drain, enjoy life!

Exactly. Just think of all the people on the Titanic who waved off the dessert cart after dinner.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
babybus
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:19 am

I do sympathize with you. Air travel isn't about getting from A to B but a normal market where airlines try to increase their loads and increase their flights as much as possible, by whatever means.

Thinking about the north American traffic as an example, this isn't about getting people from A to B but encouraging people who don't need to fly to take up ridiculously cheap ticket offers.

If airlines had the environment in mind they would either offer bigger planes less often or downsize the aircraft and charge passengers more. That would be the real measure of need.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
dc863
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:47 am

The smokier, the noisier, the more soot a plane leaves behind is wonderful.
The whole Go Green garbage is annoying. If you want to Go Green please be my guest and do so.
The planet's enviornment will correct itself in a thousand years so what does it matter. Enjoy what little time you have on this Earth.
 
BWIA 772
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:53 am

Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):

I am not going to address the faults in your premise they have been dealt with by previous posters (good job to all of you)

Anyways if you still have an urge to check airliners.net after this topic has died... still get that urge to always look up when you hear a plane and or catch your self in a slight smile when you see your favorite plane or one you have not seen in a while... the love affair isn't over!! If you truly don't do any of the above you never really loved airplanes to begin with! Consider yourself as one of those people who found planes kind of cool but never really was that into it!!

Regards
BWIA 772

[Edited 2009-03-24 22:59:18]
Eagles Soar!
 
airxliban
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:08 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
My sister works for Emirates and so I get one 90% discount flight each year and I think I will visit her in Dubai, then thats it I swear

Can I assume you are going to offset your carbon emissions?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Milesdependent
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 5:27 pm

RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:17 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 38):
Today I had FUN destroying the enviroment. I went up (all by myself) and went flying, and did nothing in particular and returned to the SAME airport I departed from. So essentially I traveled by myself and just returned back to where I started, with out doing nothing (except have fun), and you know what? I do not feel bad what so ever (not in the smallest form) bad for what I did, infact I enjoyed it.

As you say we are f*cked anyhow, why go down without enjoying life, get out there - do what ever you want and as long as you are not pouring barrels of oil down the drain, enjoy life!

From your profile you are still very young. What is interesting is that you probably will care about things beyond the time frame of your life, if you have kids. Then you will start to think about what their life will be like, and their kids and so on.

Quoting Dc863 (Reply 46):
The smokier, the noisier, the more soot a plane leaves behind is wonderful. The whole Go Green garbage is annoying. If you want to Go Green please be my guest and do so. The planet's enviornment will correct itself in a thousand years so what does it matter. Enjoy what little time you have on this Earth.

You are not to young 

My personal opinion is that I am not convinced about global warming at all. I have read all the arguments, and while each side is overwhelmingly passionate, there are compelling things on both sides. I consider the costs we incur in respect of climate change to be insurance. If the greenies are right we're in big trouble so it pays to start doing things. If ultimately we can prove the sceptics are right, well, then we've incurred some costs, but no doubt made some interesting scientific progress which can be put to some other benefit.

Bringing things back on topic... I agree with the others. Cutting out flying after seeing a movie is perhaps "admirable" but short-sighted. The hippies will still torment you as you drive your SUV, watch your plasma TV, wear your made in China clothes (produced in a coal factory). Unless you plan to become a true greenie and be conscious about your entire carbon footprint.

My advice: If you are really concerned about flying, choose an airline with a carbon offset program like Qantas (or whatever EU airlines offer this - I suspect most do).

[Edited 2009-03-24 23:18:56]
 
kaitak
Posts: 9839
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:27 am

I'd be interested in seeing this film; trouble is, virtually all forms of transport emit CO2 (although I'll admit electric trains emit a lot less; shipping does moreso than aviation, but there's a lot more focus on aviation.

Life still has to go on; people have to travel; if you live on an island - and I see you have the Irish flag - what are you going to do if you want to travel? It's fine, if you're on the continent, but if you're in Ireland, there's not much of an alternative.

I just don't see that kicking the aviation industry endlessly is going to achieve anything; the objective needs to be to get the industry to develop new technologies to reduce the level of CO2 and/or other pollutants it emits.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing this film, though.
 
goboeing
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RE: My Love Affair With Planes Has Ended!

Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:29 am



Quoting Yak42 (Thread starter):
Well I've just got back from seeing a really life changing film for me, The Age of Stupid by director Franny Armstrong. It has put me completley off flying and planes. I was always half aware that they are very polluting but this film really brought it home to me how damaging aviation is. I really want to cut flying out of my life now as much as I can unless maybe I get a job where its essential. I am thinking of perhaps taking one last return flight sometime soon just to kind of say goodbye to my former obsession. My sister works for Emirates and so I get one 90% discount flight each year and I think I will visit her in Dubai, then thats it I swear. I have replaced the Yakovlev yak42 as my desktop background with a bullet train, I have deleted all my aviation related bookmarks and I am no longer going to contribute to this or any other aviation related forum unless it is to do with reducing flying or scaling back the aviation industries.
I know just myself stopping it is not going to stop planes taking off. But if we all just use that as a reason to continue, then there is no possibility stopping it. Im kind of resigned to the idea that whatever I do personally we're all f**ked. I just want to stop being such a disproportionate part of the problem (most people dont fly afterall) and live more sustainably. It will make me feel just a little bit less guilty when it all turns to s**t. When Im told what im doing is stupid and wrong and why and I stop, then in the future when it affects me more directly I dont have to hate myself so much. Its not fuzzy logic: You dont shit where you eat.

I'm flying my next leg at M.80 instead of .76 just for you, yak.  Smile

See how much influence your post had on me? Big grin

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