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fxramper
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My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:05 pm

Background: He's 85 years old, a WW2 combat fighter pilot (5th Airforce, 387th Bomb Group, 312th Squadron), receiving the Medal of Honor, Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, and Air Medal. He was born in 1923 and is set in his ways.

Recent: He told me he was behind the Dallas cop that stopped a BLACK man in route to the hospital to be with his mother-in-law. He said the cop was justified in drawing his weapon on the family. He says he saw the video on CNN and didn't see anything wrong with it; "It was SOP for the officer, Drew."

Anyone else conflicted with family or friends that think 115% the opposite of yourself? This really disgusts me. I pride myself in the closeness of relationships with my family and am very sad after this phone conversation.

 crying 
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Anyone else conflicted with family or friends that think 115% the opposite of yourself? This really disgusts me. I pride myself in the closeness of relationships with my family and am very sad after this phone conversation.

Sorry, where was the part that made him a racist?
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:17 pm

A lot of old people still have a dated viewpoint on other races. I have several elderly aunts who still refer to ethnic persons as 'darkies', 'wogs', or 'Pakkies' - I'm not saying it's right, but you're just never going to get these people to change.


Dan  Smile
 
MYT332
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:18 pm

Bah, so what? Mine probably is a bit too but they're set in their age old ways.

I don't really care. They've lived through shit and I understand their point of view albeit may not agree with it.
 
windy95
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:18 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Anyone else conflicted with family or friends that think 115% the opposite of yourself? This really disgusts me. I pride myself in the closeness of relationships with my family and am very sad after this phone conversation.

Sorry, where was the part that made him a racist?

Ditto.

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Anyone else conflicted with family or friends that think 115% the opposite of yourself? This really disgusts me

Because your 85 year old Grandfather thinks different than you he is a racist and you are disgusted?
 
swiftski
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:35 pm



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Anyone else conflicted with family or friends that think 115% the opposite of yourself? This really disgusts me. I pride myself in the closeness of relationships with my family and am very sad after this phone conversation.

Again, doesn't make him a racist.


Racist - "That person is dumb because they are black"
 
Flighty
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:38 pm

Everybody's grandfather is a racist.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:46 pm



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 5):
Racist - "That person is dumb because they are black"

Or...

(Taking a little liberty here, this is *not* a direct quote)

Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Recent: He told me he was behind the Dallas cop that stopped a BLACK man in route to the hospital to be with his mother-in-law because he was black.

 
iairallie
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:47 pm



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
He says he saw the video on CNN and didn't see anything wrong with it; "It was SOP for the officer, Drew."

That's not a racist statement. If it is SOP to draw a weapon then they draw them black or white or green. I have no idea if it is SOP though your grandfather seems to think so. If your grandfather said something like "good thing he drew down on that (insert racist term here) you can't trust those (insert another racist term here) they are all rotten to the core" ...Now that would be racist.

I saw the video and I thought the cop behaved like a DB totally uncalled for uncompassionate arrogant attitude. I don't think it was racially motivated though. I am not black and the cop that responded to the dumb teenage girl who called 911 when our cars scraped in a parking lot (before even discussing it) was a DB as well. Some cops are just DB's.
 
vc10
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:48 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
Everybody's grandfather is a racist.

As a grandfather myself I strongly object to your statement, a classic example of agism

littlevc10
 
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fxramper
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:49 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Sorry, where was the part that made him a racist?

I was upset when I first posted. Listening him talk about the people he killed in the war is disturbing enough...

When we discussed the NFL player that was pulled over he immediately said "the black guys jumped out of the car and the cop was defending himself."

If you bothered to research the story, they were in the hospital lot when finally stopped and a doctor and two nurses were telling the officer that responded the situation.

I don't need you guys telling me if he's a racist or not. I've been around him almost 30 years; I know he is.

My question was how to handle it if anyone has been presented with this situation. I usually blow it off, but he was practically yelling at me today trying to sell his crap. He is a second father to me, so it's that much harder on me.

 crying 
 
swiftski
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:58 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 7):
Or...

(Taking a little liberty here, this is *not* a direct quote)

Exactly..
 
dtw9
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Background: He's 85 years old, a WW2 combat fighter pilot (5th Airforce, 387th Bomb Group, 312th Squadron), receiving the Medal of Honor, Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, and Air Medal. He was born in 1923 and is set in his ways.

Lets see. Born six years before the Great Depression, off to a World War in his early twenties, probably saw some very close buddies killed during that war,raised during the height of racism,
and worked his butt off and raised a family. This man has been through more than you or I will ever know. Instead off being ashamed,maybe you should take the time to understand something you hopefully will never live. This great man is not a racist!
 
lincoln
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
Everybody's grandfather is a racist.

Or, the song from Avenue Q (the musical) "Everybody's a little bit racist"

I will say that my nextdoor neighbors growing up -- an older couple -- would say things that made me extraordinarially uncomfortable but I wrote it off as "different people, different time"

Re: the officer... I think the situation could have been handled a little bit better but I don't think he did anything wrong, watching the video, after I didn't see the red light that got run but I did see a stop sign get blatantly run... the driver's body language combative and uncooperative, two passengers were blatantly ignoring lawful orders from the peace officer, so the officer really couldn't be sure if they posed a threat or not.

If I was acting like that I would expect to have a gun pulled on me, and the driver would have made things much easier on himself had he just stuck to the "Yes officer"/"No officer"/"Here's my license officer" routine. (Or just not run the light or the stop sign in the first place! -- It would have added another minute to the trip and minimized the risk of sending more people to the hospital had there been conflicting traffic.)
 
VC-10
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
If you bothered to research the story

It is not up to us to research the story, it is incumbent on the thread starter to furnish all the facts to begin with.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
"the black guys jumped out of the car and the cop was defending himself."

Do you know if the cop or a colleague of his had experienced a similar incident where a gun was pulled as the person got out of the car?

As for you grandfather, I do not think a person of his age, whatever you say, will change their opinion.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:26 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
When we discussed the NFL player that was pulled over he immediately said "the black guys jumped out of the car and the cop was defending himself."

When a car fails to stop through such a length of time, who knows what their reasoning is, or whether the vehicle and/or occupants have been involved in a crime and intend to evade capture by whatever means possible. And they finally stop, jump right out of the car, and the officer is supposed to have no concern whatsoever for his own safety?

Do you realize how many officers have been ambushed upon stepping out of their vehicle, perps being white, black, hispanic, all over the board?

Agreeing with an officer for being concerned first and foremost for his or her own safety is not being racist.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
If you bothered to research the story, they were in the hospital lot when finally stopped and a doctor and two nurses were telling the officer that responded the situation.

Drew, I watched the entire unedited tape. I'm familiar with the story. None of the hospital staff briefed the officer of the situation until many minutes after the initial stop.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
I don't need you guys telling me if he's a racist or not. I've been around him almost 30 years; I know he is.

You come on here posting that your grandfather is a racist, yet provide no evidence whatsoever to the fact other than offering a disagreement, and take it to heart when we call you on it...What did you expect?

Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
My question was how to handle it if anyone has been presented with this situation. I usually blow it off, but he was practically yelling at me today trying to sell his crap. He is a second father to me, so it's that much harder on me.

If we had any reason to believe, thus far, that your grandfather is indeed racist, then maybe we could offer up some suggestions. But until then, I offer this: It's not what you're making it out to be. Cherish the time you have left with your grandfather, realize that he's probably seen and done things in his life that he only hopes you never have to experience, and understand that people two generations apart will always have opposing viewpoints on certain aspects of the world.

You don't want to send him off like this.
 
UAL747
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:49 pm

ALL of my grandparents are racist, gay hating Christians. In fact, when my grandmother found out I was gay, the first thing she told me, "What about AIDS? You wil die of AIDS!" We still have black people who work for us, or rather her, and while she claims she "Minerva" is her best friend, she still sees herself as somehow better than her. But she sees herself as being better than many people, especially the "help".

But, I think that you will find that black people of the same age are just as racist, gay hating Christians. In fact, I got into a fight with one of my friends about how racism and discrimination against gays are somewhat similar in nature. She got so offended. Now this coming from a person of my age, and from a very wealthy background, who has lived a very sheltered life. Anyway, a very prominant coach from the University of Oklahoma came over and starting making hateful remarks in regards to gay people in front of me, and my friend said "Phil is gay," but she seemed to just laugh it off. And then after we talked about it and how I was offended by what he said, and how ironic that a black man would do that, she just played it off saying, "Oh, it's just the church."

I hate discrimination of any kind. And I have found that fundamental religion spurs this on quite a bit.

UAL
 
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fxramper
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:05 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 15):
What did you expect?

I guess not much else; just sad it was so pointed, direct, and in my face from him today.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 15):
Cherish the time you have left with your grandfather

Everyday I do my friend. I was there when he had his heart attack and called 911 for him. He's been a rockstar in my eyes my entire life.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 14):
Do you know if the cop or a colleague of his had experienced a similar incident where a gun was pulled as the person got out of the car?

The people in the car had already exited the vehicle at the request of the officer before he pulled his duty weapon on them. He made the remarks as he drew his weapon and pointed at the unarmed wife of the football player (I'm aware the officer didn't know the passengers were unarmed).

video

Countless articles and youtube videos chronicle the text book replies from the NFL player. CNN said the player said yesir 15 times.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 14):
thread starter to furnish all the facts to begin with

I can't recall a thread on this subject; my apoligies for assuming.

article


Just to get back on topic, I am upset about my grandfather's actions; now and in the past.  Sad
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
Recent: He told me he was behind the Dallas cop that stopped a BLACK man in route to the hospital to be with his mother-in-law. He said the cop was justified in drawing his weapon on the family. He says he saw the video on CNN and didn't see anything wrong with it; "It was SOP for the officer, Drew."

Well, he's right. This particular situation was an unusual one. But if it becomes policy to let people drive recklessly and let them go because the driver claims there is an emergency that the cop cannot confirm? I'm sure if he saw a woman giving birth in the back seat he would have been quite understanding. What he saw was a bunch of people running into a building.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
Lets see. Born six years before the Great Depression, off to a World War in his early twenties, probably saw some very close buddies killed during that war,raised during the height of racism,
and worked his butt off and raised a family. This man has been through more than you or I will ever know. Instead off being ashamed,maybe you should take the time to understand something you hopefully will never live. This great man is not a racist!

 checkmark 
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 17):
video

A better link:

The rest of the video.
 
lincoln
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:02 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 17):
The people in the car had already exited the vehicle at the request of the officer before he pulled his duty weapon on them

I'm not sure that passengers popping out of the vehicle followed by the officer repeating "Git in there...Git in there...show me your hands" is the same as "exit[ing] the vehicle at the request of the officer"
 
D L X
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:05 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 19):
A better link:

The rest of the video.

From the video at 12:40: "That's the nurse, she said that the mom's dying right now, and she wants to know if we can get him up there before she dies." "Alright. I'm almost done."

Even while being told by the nurse, Officer Powell continues to lecture Mr. Moats. Unbelievable.
 
whappeh
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:21 pm



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
This great man is not a racist!

Well, by definition, passing unequal judgment and unfair treatment towards members of other races makes you a racist. So he could be all that other stuff you said, and a racist. I was unaware fighting in World War Two means you get a free pass at being a bigot.
 
Rj111
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:46 pm

I can't wait till i'm older and i can get away with Sexsism, Racism and general Vulgar due to being "set in my ways". Big grin
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:05 pm

FX ramper, I'm afraid your grandfather, was born into a generation, for whom, actions and words which we today know to be racist, were just considered to be normal and logical.
I can't for one minute see that he's going to change those opinions now.
It appears that the UK was a fairly racially tolerant society pre WWII, as there are publications around, which were issued to the population after the US entry into the war, explaining how the US deemed coloured people to be basically untrustworthy, and capable of only menial jobs.
part of the advice, was to not invite coloured US pesonnel into your home, as the US heirachy would not approve.

I do however find it ironic, that the coloured personnel, were not considered capable, or relioable enough to be combat troops or airmen. Thus they got to do the menial jobs in relative safety, whilst the superior race, went and got themselves killed. I think that just helps to show the idiocy of the attitudes prevalant at the time.

I found my father in laws regular comments on "nig nogs" offensive, but I do have to say, that he was appaled by the racism he encountered on regular trips to the US.

Even now I notice when visiting the US, that the servers in restaurants, tend to be nearly 100 white, whilst the people clearing the tables are nearly 100% black, or Latino.
 
us330
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:20 pm



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
My question was how to handle it if anyone has been presented with this situation. I usually blow it off, but he was practically yelling at me today trying to sell his crap. He is a second father to me, so it's that much harder on me

According to my mother, my maternal grandfather was a bit of a racist. As much as she loved her dad, that little part always bothered her. Apparently, whenever he would watch football games, and a black player would do something stupid (ie make a penalty, or fail to catch a ball), he would shout "stupid n-------." If they did something positive, though, it was all good.

The only time I encountered that with him was when I was wearing a tshirt that had been autographed by a world cup referee, who was syrian, and had written the name of the country underneath his signature. My grandfather, a huge supporter of Israel and an ardent zionist, took one look at it and said something along the lines of "he's a terrorist" or "you better be careful he doesn't find you and blow you up."

I was so pissed off (I was 8 at the time), I refused to talk to him, and my mom had to get him/forced him to apologize before I would talk to him again.

Like your grandfather, he also was a WWII vet, participated in the troop landings shortly after d-day, and served as a translator to concentration camp survivors shortly after Buchenwald was liberated--never graduated from high school, and built his own business with his bare hands.

No matter how much respect you have for him, no one earns the right to be racist because of what they went through during their life. Granted, it doesn't make those of our grandfathers generation bad people if they simply held those views (many of which were forced fed to them since their birth), and never acted on them.

Hopefully your grandfather will come around. Sometimes it takes desperate circumstances--my grandmother--his wife--suffered from Alzheimer's and had a personal caregiver who was african-american, and while he was stricken with cancer, he also had an african-american nurse. My grandfather never said a negative thing about either of them, and had nothing but praise for their efforts.
 
VC-10
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:40 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 24):
I do however find it ironic, that the coloured personnel, were not considered capable, or reliable enough to be combat troops or airmen.

Think again -

http://www.frankambrose.com/pages/tusk.html

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_tusk.html

President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered the Army Air Corps to form an all-Negro flying unit in 1940.

Captain Benjamin O. Davis, Jr., became the first Negro to solo an aircraft as an U.S. Army Air Corps officer on September 2, 1941.

• 150 Distinguished Flying Crosses earned
• 744 Air Medals
• 8 Purple Hearts
• 14 Bronze Stars

[Edited 2009-03-28 17:43:25]
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:47 am



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):
My question was how to handle it if anyone has been presented with this situation.

My paternal grandmother had a racist streak to her as well.

HOWEVER

This did not change the fact that even though she was misguided in her opinions regarding race, she was a basically decent person with a good heart, and she loved me.

At the end of the day, THAT'S what matters. And at the end of the day, when the time comes - hopefully many years from now - where your grandfather is no longer around, you'll simply cherish him for the good things about him and look past one small part of his persona.
 
iliribdl
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:50 am



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
This great man is not a racist!

Exactly, he is a hero, hence all the awards he got. You shouldn't be ashamed of him, be proud you have that kind of grandfather my friend.


I don't see anything wrong with his comment by the way.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:00 am

My grandfather was in the Hitler Youth, and despite the fact that he lived more than 50 years in a free society, on some points you can still see that indoctrination. I have decided that arguing does not help anymore, so I ignore it.
 
BN747
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:19 am



Quoting FXramper (Reply 10):

I don't need you guys telling me if he's a racist or not. I've been around him almost 30 years; I know he is.

Precisely, and those trying to tell you otherwise are simply sustain similar views of their own in the Dallas situation.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
Lets see. Born six years before the Great Depression, off to a World War in his early twenties, probably saw some very close buddies killed during that war,raised during the height of racism,
and worked his butt off and raised a family. This man has been through more than you or I will ever know. Instead off being ashamed,maybe you should take the time to understand something you hopefully will never live. This great man is not a racist!

Umm yeah he is...George Washington fought harder than hisFXramper's Grandpa..and he was a racist..so what? Sacrifices and hardships in noway negate racist streaks or beliefs.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 24):
FX ramper, I'm afraid your grandfather, was born into a generation, for whom, actions and words which we today know to be racist, were just considered to be normal and logical.

The best response I've seen in this thread. Exactly right, when you're grandpa was a child/young man/adult...he lived in an time when putting down and keeping down non-white people 'was the Social status quo' ...it was the thing to do, the thing to 'be normal'. The brave and exceptional people (example : 19th Century (Thomas Paine), early 20th Eleanor Roosevelt) knew immediately this kind of treatment of different people was wrong. And they came BEFORE any of your grandparents. But they chose to defy the status quo..regardless of the 'hell they caught' for doing so. These are the truly exceptional people..who risk all they have and gained 'absolutely nothing' for standing up for people who could not fight back because the entire system was against those non-white people. Now that's true courage.

Your grandfather did what MOST people did..he fell into line and didn't buck the system, if he didn't speak out...his silence was acceptance. Given that he speaks as you say..then it's proof he not only accepted it..he embraced it. Strong, right-minded people don't do this...but social peer pressure is the most powerful weapon outside of guns and knives. And most people crumble under it's weight. You can't really fault him, because he was the normal vs the exception. What was tolerated then..is not today. Times have changed..but he hasn't..and don't expect him to. But to my surprise, you do come across some aged people who will shock you...they were like that and are embarrassed about and will tell you so in an attempt to adapt to today's world.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 25):
No matter how much respect you have for him, no one earns the right to be racist because of what they went through during their life. Granted, it doesn't make those of our grandfathers generation bad people if they simply held those views (many of which were forced fed to them since their birth), and never acted on them.

Bravo!


BN747
 
Ken777
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:37 am

Years ago I went through an interesting sales course that was called "What you are is where you were when". Basically it was based on most values of an individual are set when they are 10, and adjusted by peer groups in the teen years - then being pretty well set.

Someone who was 10 will know the value of a job and have a very high loyalty to their employer/company. That shifts to generations who were 10 in the 80s and 90s - or now. It's the Me-Me-Me era.

Selling to the former group you would emphasize the value to the company. Selling to the latter you would focus on how smart a guy it would make him in the company's eyes.

Move that theory to your grandfather who was 10 in the 30's. The odds of a person of color working with him on a equal level is highly doubtful. It's also highly doubtful that he had much exposure to non-whites that had more education than he did, or was as successful.

He would probably not be aware of how much funding went to white schools, while far less went to 'other" schools. Or that the textbooks were sent out to the non-white schools when they were too worn or out of date for the white schools.

The odd thing is that, if his family was in the south, his wife may have had a maid one day a week. His wife and that maid would sit at the kitchen and talk about kids while eating lunch - and they know they had more in common than your father could ever believe.

I was 10 in the 50's - were considered the in-between-ers. The group that is supposed to stand between the two eras and help the others come together or at least understand each other.

My father was born in Illinois, but his family moved to Baton Rouge when he was 10. It was were beneficial during the depression as he was able to get both a BS & MS in mechanical Engineering. He was in a fraternity at LSU and when the fraternity's black cook got terminally ill it was the members who sat by her death bed, and who buried her.

I spent the 50's growing up in Houston and there was a very large and kind black man who mowed yards in the neighborhood. Probably a wounded vet as he had a bad arm and walked with a limp. Everyone knew him and gave him work, included a rather angry guy down the street who came home missing an arm. When our dog got out and was running around the neighborhood he was the one bring her back inside the fence. (Same with me when I was younger and where he felt I shouldn't be.

And there was the other side of that coin as this gentleman did like gin a bit and periodically there was a call in the middle of the night when $20 bail money was needed. It was a;ways "worked off" with some extra yard work, but he knew he could depend on us. During the same era integration was still a dream. Truman integrated the military, but Ike failed to immediately carry that on to the country at large through organizations receiving federal funds or guarantees.

The "maid" my parents had for years is now 85 and now taking care of 2 daughters who have medical issues. She still calls fairly often, still calls me Kenny and after chatting for a few minutes with me ask for my wife for an hour or two of chatting.

I believe we have gone a long way since I was 10. We still have a long way to go, but along with this process we fortunately continue those relationships that were good.
 
Alessandro
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:08 am



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
Lets see. Born six years before the Great Depression, off to a World War in his early twenties, probably saw some very close buddies killed during that war,raised during the height of racism,
and worked his butt off and raised a family. This man has been through more than you or I will ever know. Instead off being ashamed,maybe you should take the time to understand something you hopefully will never live. This great man is not a racist!

Buddies killed by white men I suppose? Not many blacks in the axis troops.
 
BMI727
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:18 am

FXRamper, I don't think that what your grandfather said is racist. I would have drawn my weapon on anyone if I were an officer at a traffic stop. The police have no idea what's in that car and walking up there is not a pleasant prospect.

That said, our grandparents grew up in a different world. Their standards are totally different from ours. Are they really racist? Probably not, they are just speaking in the terms of what they knew.
For example, I lost a hubcap and got a new one. I mentioned this to my grandmother who then said "That's great. Now you won't look like one of those n*****s driving around." I was shocked, but then I remembered that she grew up in a small rural Missouri town during the '30s and '40s.
 
BN747
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:13 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 33):
For example, I lost a hubcap and got a new one. I mentioned this to my grandmother who then said "That's great. Now you won't look like one of those n*****s driving around." I was shocked, but then I remembered that she grew up in a small rural Missouri town during the '30s and '40s.

And I suppose, you don't think that's racist either...

BN747
 
BMI727
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:43 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
And I suppose, you don't think that's racist either...

Well she isn't going around buring crosses if that's what you mean. Quite frankly no one should ever object to an officer drawing his weapon during a traffic stop. I don't want to see any cops die because they are afraid of offending someone or being called racist.

My grandmother, like many older people, is very set in her ways. Thinking and saying things like that was okay in her day but not anymore. It's just one of those generational gaps. I'm sure my grandchildren will be horrified at something I say. But I have no idea what it will be because whatever it is, it is perfectly normal for this day in age.
 
BN747
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:09 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 34):
And I suppose, you don't think that's racist either...

Well she isn't going around buring crosses if that's what you mean. Quite frankly no one should ever object to an officer drawing his weapon during a traffic stop. I don't want to see any cops die because they are afraid of offending someone or being called racist.

You clearly have your very own special definition of what's racist and what is.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):

My grandmother, like many older people, is very set in her ways. Thinking and saying things like that was okay in her day but not anymore. It's just one of those generational gaps. I'm sure my grandchildren will be horrified at something I say. But I have no idea what it will be because whatever it is, it is perfectly normal for this day in age.

And thank god, some people who didn't think like you do today back then..there were many back then who 'knew' your grandma's thinking was wrong then as it is now. And as for your standard today versus the future 'you' (or judgement of...) it's the very same...if you're practicing something offensive today, chances are someone close to you are telling you so..just as with your grandma back then. It's just an excuse.

BN747
 
BMI727
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:40 am



Quoting BN747 (Reply 36):
there were many back then who 'knew' your grandma's thinking was wrong then as it is now.

Yes, and probably a lot more who didn't say so. Deviating from the status quo held consequences. It is amazing how often the phrase "because we've always done it this way" is used to make a case for something stupid.

I didn't say that it was right, just that it was accepted. Actually for the most part it still is in that part of the world.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 36):
It's just an excuse.

For what? I don't have any crazy beliefs that are out of line with today's standards. Of course, no one can speak for tomorrow's standards. The fact is that the world changes faster than most people do.
 
BN747
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:53 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 36):
It's just an excuse.

For what? I don't have any crazy beliefs that are out of line with today's standards. Of course, no one can speak for tomorrow's standards. The fact is that the world changes faster than most people do.

Saying 'that's the era they come from' and forgiving it..is the application of 'it's an excuse'...
..okay recent example to state the point. About 20+ years ago, men (guilty here) could get away with slapping a girl on the ass in bar/nightclub. Some cretins did it to women anywhere. Old men have been doing it for ages. They've always known it was wrong, I even knew it was wrong as in I'd be pissed as all hell if some guy did it to my sister and I saw it (hypocrite). A even thinking person would ask himself.."how I like it if some strange gay guy slapped my ass (not being gay himself)...they wouldn't. But today/recently, change has kicked in...today I or any male (in the US) can go to jail and end up with sexual assault charges. Although we were driven by 'sexual libido' (no excuse)...so what drives racism? Nothing more than the shallow need to feel superior to someone else by putting them down, keeping the pressure on and them 'in their place'...while law 'trusts' in you behave the right way.

Bottom line although change comes, usually when the offense is done regardless of how acceptable or lack of punity...the offender knows he wrong and the last thing a friend, family member or loved one can do... is excuse it with 'that's the way they were'. Oh they can change alright, sometimes the human animal has to be threatened to be driven towards behavioral correction.

BN747

[Edited 2009-03-29 00:04:17]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:19 am

Not Racist but def Generation gap  Smile
regds
MEL.
 
BMI727
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:23 am

I never said it should be forgiven or accepted. But we should understand where it comes from and why people of other generations think the way they do. Of course there is no good excuse for racism, but then again that never stopped anyone.

As for FXRamper's original case, I don't think that a police officer drawing his weapon at a traffic stop should be considered racist. It is sometimes easy to sound sympathetic to racist people because many (ahem Jesse Jackson) read racism into things that are mundane and benign.
 
captaink
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:39 am



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 16):

But, I think that you will find that black people of the same age are just as racist,

Very true.

And it has be called what it is, regardless of the circumstance, or the time in which he lived, or the great person he is other than the issue in question, doesn't take away from the fact that he is racist. Maybe his racism isn't really his fault, and more so the environment in which he lived, but he is a racist. That doesn't make him less a loving grandfather, but due to the response to the situation, and past experiences of the poster, he is a racist, and FXramper has a right to be annoyed, and express his annoyance if he wishes to.. In the time when his grandfather was young, it was an acceptable form of behavior, now it is isn't. I personally won't hold it against him as I understand the circumstances from which he came, but the word racism applies, as ugly a word as it may be.
 
chase
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:17 pm

I guess my advice to you, from being in the exact same situation myself, is to recognize that his racism is only (hopefully) one small part of who your grandfather is, and even though you are justifiably disgusted at that small aspect of his personality, to try to focus on the other 99.9% of what makes your grandpa who he is.

Maybe I come across as making excuses for him there, or for wanting to ignore the problem. But the way I see it, go find another person who's a racist, and get on that guy's case about it. Don't bother clouding the remaining time you have left with your grandfather with what is likely to lead to animosity. That is, unless something happens that you *need* to deal with, such as if you're about to marry someone who he would be racist towards - that one you'd need to work through with him of course.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:35 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
Everybody's grandfather is a racist.

Well, it wojuld be true if your grand parents were born in the 1910s like mine. My grand-parents were raised in a colonialist society where non-white people were still considered as "savages". That was in the 1920s. It was a totally different society than the one we are in today. At that time, I guess this racist behaviour was "normal". And I'm not even sure the word "racism" was known to the people back then.

Thank God, things have changed.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:21 pm

It's not racism if it's the truth.
 
OHLHD
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:25 pm

My grandfather fought for the " Wehrmacht" in WW 2 and later being kicked out for being a semi jew. In the 80´s he always used the terms " Neger " which is "nigger" in English but that was what everyone said. Political correctness ís a thing of the nineties.

Honestly, get over it. I mean you can ask him why he is using such words but I would rather keep a good relationship with him. Cherish the great moments before they are over.  Smile
 
prosa
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:30 pm

As I child I remember hearing my grandmother saying that she didn't like "the smell of the colored people" on a city bus.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:56 pm



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 23):
I can't wait till i'm older and i can get away with Sexsism, Racism and general Vulgar due to being "set in my ways". 

Hell yeah!!

Just to ilustrate this thread ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DxyAGzGxM

P.D. enjoy all the other aspects of your relations... just a tip.
 
D L X
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:29 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
But if it becomes policy to let people drive recklessly and let them go because the driver claims there is an emergency that the cop cannot confirm?

baloney. Cops get paid to think! If a guy is racing to a hospital, parks at the EMERGENCY entrance, and claims to have an emergency, guess what? He probably has an emergency.

Yes, it should be policy to allow a person having an emergency to drive quickly (recklessly is YOUR mischaracterization of the facts) and there is absolutely no necessity that the cop ticket before confirming the emergency. What an idiot! And he should lose his job, not because he was insensitive (at least not alone), but because he has shown that he lacks the requisite ability to think on the job.

(And apparently, all the older cops in Dallas agree: http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/arch.../2009/03/-talk-to-dallas-cops.html )
 
MSYtristar
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RE: My Grandfather Is A Racist.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:39 pm

Both of mine are...thankfully, it failed to rub off on future generations.

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