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nzblue
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Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:57 pm

Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

excerpt:

In a precedent-setting ruling, the Iowa Supreme Court today upheld a lower court decision legalizing same-sex marriages in Iowa.

The unanimous court decision is expected to carry national implications as Iowa becomes the first Midwest state to grant full legal standing to gay and lesbian couples and only the third state nationally to confer marital status beyond traditional one-man, one woman unions.
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:02 pm

First Sweden.. now Iowa..

What has the world come down to!

Congratulations!
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max550
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:06 pm

Hopefully this one will last longer than some of the other states. Good news nonetheless.
 
planespotting
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:13 pm

Yeah! I'm always proud to be from the Hawkeye State, but especially today!

There's going to be a strong backlash, but in a few years, most of those dissenting will have realized their futility.
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D L X
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:17 pm

I guess people just can't get around the fact that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional. Every time a court hears the case, if it is correctly (and conservatively) applying the law, it has to lift the ban.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:17 pm

Most significantly, this is not like California where the voters will be able to quickly reverse this. Gay marriage will be in Iowa until 2012 at the earliest...The more time that elapses, the more people realize that gay marriage is not the end of the world and become more accepting of it.
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iflykpdx
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:20 pm

A great end to the week  Smile Here's the summary for those interested: http://www.kcci.com/download/2009/0403/19085781.pdf
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Boeing744
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:21 pm



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
Most significantly, this is not like California where the voters will be able to quickly reverse this. Gay marriage will be in Iowa until 2012 at the earliest...The more time that elapses, the more people realize that gay marriage is not the end of the world and become more accepting of it.

Sounds good... But didn't this already happen in Iowa like a year ago? I remember that some court made the same decision, but it was somehow repealed a couple weeks later. Anyone care to clarify this?

Congratulations to Iowa in an case. Maybe the USA is finally catching up with some other countries...
 
mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:21 pm



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
until 2012 at the earliest...The more time that elapses, the more people realize that gay marriage is not the end of the world and become more accepting of it.

Isnt the end of the world supposed to be in 2012 anyways  Smile?
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planespotting
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:25 pm



Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 7):

Sounds good... But didn't this already happen in Iowa like a year ago?

The district court's decision was appealed to the Supreme Court - hence today's decision!
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Boeing744
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:31 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 9):

The district court's decision was appealed to the Supreme Court - hence today's decision!

Nice! So this will be somewhat permanent then! Kudos to the Iowa Supreme Court!
 
texan
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:38 pm



Quoting Max550 (Reply 2):
Hopefully this one will last longer than some of the other states. Good news nonetheless.

From what I understand, it will last until 2011 or 2012 at least because of Iowa's structure for constitutional amendments. For a constitutional amendment to pass, it must be approved by two consecutive sessions of the legislature (and there are apparently only a couple of weeks left in this year's session, meaning it likely will not come before the legislature until next year), THEN be passed on to the voters in the next general election. And there will be a constitutional amendment offered seeking to ban gay marriage...the Republicans have already promised one.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 9):


Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 7):

Sounds good... But didn't this already happen in Iowa like a year ago?

The district court's decision was appealed to the Supreme Court - hence today's decision!

The district court issued its opinion last year (I guess), but put did not allow implementation of its holding until the Iowa Supreme Court had a chance to review the case.

One interesting thing to note: UNANIMOUS opinion of the court!

Texan
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squared
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:49 pm



Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
One interesting thing to note: UNANIMOUS opinion of the court!

That's definitely one of the most interesting aspects to the case. In all the other same-sex marriage cases (CA, MA, CT) there has been a vigorous dissent. The unanimous decision sends a pretty strong signal to the legislature.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:52 pm

I guess this just proves that the protagonist of the the Dead Milkmen song "Stuart" was right.
The "queers and the aliens" are in it together and are doing something to the soil in Des Moines, building landing strips for gay Martians!!  wink 

Congratulations to Iowa!
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767Lover
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:57 pm

Wahoo!  champagne 

Maybe now people on either coast will think of Iowa as something more than a flyover state.
 
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:07 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 4):

I guess people just can't get around the fact that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional

Federal law, via DOMA, says otherwise.

Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
Every time a court hears the case, if it is correctly (and conservatively) applying the law, it has to lift the ban

California still has to say otherwise. We'll see how the court back-door legislates there to get around the will of the people.
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planespotting
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:07 pm



Quoting Texan (Reply 11):
The district court issued its opinion last year (I guess), but put did not allow implementation of its holding until the Iowa Supreme Court had a chance to review the case.

Yes, most civil/constitutional (and even criminal) decisions that are sent to a higher court for review are held until the decision comes through.
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:11 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15):
We'll see how the court back-door legislates there to get around the will of the people.

Thats they way the Great American System work. If you dont like it... move out..
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texan
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:12 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 16):
Yes, most civil/constitutional (and even criminal) decisions that are sent to a higher court for review are held until the decision comes through.

True, but in most of the cases I've seen it has been the reviewing court that issues the stay, not the deciding court. Although on controversial issues the deciding court sometimes issues a stay, the majority of the time they leave it to the appellate court. That was just another thing I found procedurally interesting about this case.

Texan
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allstarflyer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 17):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15):
We'll see how the court back-door legislates there to get around the will of the people.

Thats they way the Great American System work. If you dont like it... move out..

Or change it . . . preferably to the way it was intended.  Wink
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:29 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
Or change it . . . preferably to the way it was intended. Wink

What I dont get is that DOMA was not technically the "will of the people." It was the result of legislation.

Just like the IA' supreme court decision is not technically "will of of the people" either. Yet you accept DOMA more so that you do the court'sdiscussion.

I am no constitutional lawyer or scholar. So if my logic is wrong..id be glad to learn something new.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:35 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 20):
Yet you accept DOMA more so that you do the court'sdiscussion.

DOMA was clearly laid out as legislation, while the court's decision was a blatant slap in the face to stated law - from CNN's article - http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/03/iowa.same.sex/

"The decision strikes the language from Iowa Code section 595.2 limiting civil marriage to a man and a woman. It further directs that the remaining statutory language be interpreted and applied in a manner allowing gay and lesbian people full access to the institution of civil marriage".

Iowa Code clearly states marriage is between a man and a woman. The action by the court effectually stated "we don't like what the law plainly says, so we're going to make it say something else". And as far as equal protection, it can be easily and accurately interpreted that men and women both have equal protection under section 595.2 to get married - under the boundaries laid forth by section 595.2.   

Edited for content

[Edited 2009-04-03 09:36:26]
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:41 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 21):
DOMA was clearly laid out as legislation, while the court's decision was a blatant slap in the face to stated law - from CNN's article - http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/03/iowa.same.sex/

"The decision strikes the language from Iowa Code section 595.2 limiting civil marriage to a man and a woman. It further directs that the remaining statutory language be interpreted and applied in a manner allowing gay and lesbian people full access to the institution of civil marriage".

Iowa Code clearly states marriage is between a man and a woman. The action by the court effectually stated "we don't like what the law plainly says, so we're going to make it say something else". And as far as equal protection, it can be easily and accurately interpreted that men and women both have equal protection under section 595.2 to get married - under the boundaries laid forth by section 595.2.

Edited for content

Regardless.. what about your "will of the people" claim. Both are not the "will of the people"

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15):
We'll see how the court back-door legislates there to get around the will of the people.

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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:42 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 21):
Iowa Code clearly states marriage is between a man and a woman. The action by the court effectually stated "we don't like what the law plainly says, so we're going to make it say something else". And as far as equal protection, it can be easily and accurately interpreted that men and women both have equal protection under section 595.2 to get married - under the boundaries laid forth by section 595.2.

And that logic went out the window in Loving where the Court found that Virginia's anti-miscegenation law was unconstitutional despite arguments that blacks and whites had equal protection to get married - just not to each other.
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:23 pm

What's that sound?

oh yes, freeper heads exploding in flyover country. i love it!

good on ya, Iowa.
 
mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:34 pm

Quoting Johnboy (Reply 24):
oh yes, freeper heads exploding in flyover country. i love it!

And men looking at their wifes.. and saying: "Sorry Honey.. today our marriage is worth less"

[Edited 2009-04-03 11:39:01]
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johnboy
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:43 pm

We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective. The legislature has excluded a historically disfavored class of persons from a supremely important civil institution without a constitutionally sufficient justification. There is no material fact, genuinely in dispute, that can affect this determination.

We have a constitutional duty to ensure equal protection of the law. Faithfulness to that duty requires us to hold Iowa’s marriage statute, Iowa Code section 595.2, violates the Iowa Constitution. To decide otherwise would be an abdication of our constitutional duty. If gay and lesbian people must submit to different treatment without an exceedingly persuasive justification, they are deprived of the benefits of the principle of equal protection upon which the rule of law is founded. Iowa Code section 595.2 denies gay and lesbian people the equal protection of the law promised by the Iowa Constitution.



Makes the dissenting side seem much like the proverbial turds in the punchbowl, eh?
 Wink
 
D L X
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15):
Quoting D L X (Reply 4):

I guess people just can't get around the fact that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional

Federal law, via DOMA, says otherwise.

DOMA is statute. The Constitution is above statute. It is the province of the judiciary to determine if legislation is constitutional. I firmly believe that DOMA is also unconstitutional, and should it ever be found before a court, it will so be held.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 15):
Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
Every time a court hears the case, if it is correctly (and conservatively) applying the law, it has to lift the ban

California still has to say otherwise.

It all has to do with procedural posturing. If the attack against the California amendment is because it was in violation of the United States Constitution, it will likely be found unconstitutional. But since it was brought as this strange "amendment" versus "revision" thing unique to California, it is unlikely that there will be anything legally significant coming out of that case as it relates to any other jurisdiction.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 21):
the court's decision was a blatant slap in the face to stated law

Again, it is the province of the judiciary to determine if legislation is constitutional. In other words, it is the judiciary's JOB to slap the legislative branch in the face when it acts in a way held to be unconstitutional.

Quoting Johnboy (Reply 26):
We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective.

That's legal language there. There are different levels under the United States Constitution concerning how to deal with legislation that discriminates against classes of people. Some ways, you just need a rational basis. These are things like discriminating by neighborhood to determine what school the kids go to. In another level, it's called "strict scrutiny" where in order to discriminate, the legislature must show that there is a "compelling state interest" in doing the discrimination, and that the discrimination is "narrowly tailored" to that interest. Those are typically related to race, such as Affirmative Action programs. In the middle is "intermediate scrutiny" which requires that the discriminatory action must be "substantially related" to an "important government objective." That is almost always talking about gender discrimination.

So when the Iowa court is talking about "substantially further(ing)" any "important governmental objective", what they are actually saying in layman's terms is that the Iowa legislature is discriminating by gender (Bobby can marry Sally but Julie can't), but hasn't or cannot show that this gender discrimination furthers the important government objective of state endorsed marriage.

This is actually first year law school stuff, and I'm happy the IA Supremes had the guts to correctly apply the law.

Quoting Johnboy (Reply 26):
The legislature has excluded a historically disfavored class of persons from a supremely important civil institution without a constitutionally sufficient justification.

BINGO.
 
jamincan
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:28 pm



Quoting Texan (Reply 18):
True, but in most of the cases I've seen it has been the reviewing court that issues the stay, not the deciding court. Although on controversial issues the deciding court sometimes issues a stay, the majority of the time they leave it to the appellate court. That was just another thing I found procedurally interesting about this case.

Texan

Are you sure that the reviewing court wasn't the one that issued the stay? My understanding is that one couple was legally married in Iowa before the stay was issued, and that would only make sense to me if it was another court which issued the stay.
 
texan
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:46 pm



Quoting Jamincan (Reply 28):

Are you sure that the reviewing court wasn't the one that issued the stay? My understanding is that one couple was legally married in Iowa before the stay was issued, and that would only make sense to me if it was another court which issued the stay.

The article I read first this morning specifically stated the lower court judge stayed the opinion, but the article most definitely could have been wrong. I have not seen any other article mention it.

Texan
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DucatiRacer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 25):
And men looking at their wives.. and saying: "Sorry Honey.. today our marriage is worth less"

I am pretty sure the ruling did not nullify exiting hetero marriages, so why would anyone look to their wives and say anything as ignorant as that?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:33 pm

Next thing you know Iowans will be wanting to marry animals.

...wait...

...They already do!  duck 
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DocLightning
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:40 pm



Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 30):

I am pretty sure the ruling did not nullify exiting hetero marriages, so why would anyone look to their wives and say anything as ignorant as that?

Well, that's a very good question. Except one of the biggest arguments against gay marriage is that it will somehow cheapen heterosexual marriage.
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DocLightning
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:59 pm

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

An Iowa GOP Senator has expressed concern that Iowa will turn into a "Gay Marriage Mecca."

Oh, no! Not THOSE people! There goes the neighborhood!

And gee, those people have more disposable income than their straight counterparts. How horrible to have lots of gay tourism! What a nightmare! You might actually turn a profit!
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akiss20
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:14 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 33):
Oh, no! Not THOSE people! There goes the neighborhood!

And gee, those people have more disposable income than their straight counterparts. How horrible to have lots of gay tourism! What a nightmare! You might actually turn a profit!

Ya I gotta love the right wing. Hate the idea of gays marrying and settling down, but love the money that they can bring in.
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DocLightning
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:43 am



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 34):

Ya I gotta love the right wing. Hate the idea of gays marrying and settling down, but love the money that they can bring in.

Well, considering the reaction here, I don't think my money is green enough for this senator.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:53 am



Quoting Johnboy (Reply 26):
Makes the dissenting side seem much like the proverbial turds in the punchbowl, eh?

Using the convoluted approach GarnetPalmetto mentioned about the Virginia case, I'm sure the jurists would reach such a conclusion. Funny, though, since the jurists in IA may not even be conscious of their own preamble, thanking God for their freedoms. Wonder what his take on the matter would be . . .  scratchchin  . . . and here go the red flags for those who only know about Leviticus and not the rest of it (like the New Testament).  silly 

Quoting D L X (Reply 27):
In other words, it is the judiciary's JOB to slap the legislative branch in the face when it acts in a way held to be unconstitutional.

In principle, yes - but what happens when a legislature makes a law that defines marriage as one man/one woman considering the language of a decision like Loving mentioned by GP? They could always introduce the legislation, and if it were to go through, they could possibly interpret equal protection to mean men and women have the right to marry, though, under the provisions of DOMA. And where does Loving fit in with DOMA anyway?

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 23):
And that logic went out the window in Loving where the Court found that Virginia's anti-miscegenation law was unconstitutional despite arguments that blacks and whites had equal protection to get married - just not to each other.

And that's all based on assuming same-sex relations are something to be considered under civil rights, as opposed to inherent qualities such as gender, race, age, etc. Still waiting for conclusive evidence that there's a "gay gene" or whatever. And some supporters of same-sex relations still make that pesky mistake of calling it a lifestyle.  eyebrow 

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 25):
And men looking at their wifes.. and saying: "Sorry Honey.. today our marriage is worth less"

They could always just scratch their heads and wonder where what's so sanctified about marriage nowadays.

Quoting D L X (Reply 27):
I firmly believe that DOMA is also unconstitutional, and should it ever be found before a court, it will so be held.

I firmly believe that given the continual corrupt, twisted, activist, relativisitc reasoning of some of our courts, that you may be right.
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:32 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 36):
They could always just scratch their heads and wonder where what's so sanctified about marriage nowadays.


So why dont they?
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allstarflyer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:54 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 36):
They could always just scratch their heads and wonder where what's so sanctified about marriage nowadays.


So why dont they?

I know several who do . . .
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mt99
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 38):
I know several who do . . .

Did they feel the same way when Britney Spears got married?

I mean if you define how much your relationship is worth by what is going on around you. What can i say. True Love!

I would argue that couple who do feel that this cheapens marriage, and in turn they love their husband/wife; they should feel even more blessed to have found their partner. Amidst all this "cheap" marriages, why wouldn't you appreciate yours even more?

Why wouldn't it in fact be more special?
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Aaron747
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:24 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 36):
And that's all based on assuming same-sex relations are something to be considered under civil rights, as opposed to inherent qualities such as gender, race, age, etc. Still waiting for conclusive evidence that there's a "gay gene" or whatever.

Still waiting for conclusive evidence that same-sex relations and/or marriage in any way harm society, community, existing heterosexual relationships, and yours truly.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:03 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
Still waiting for conclusive evidence that same-sex relations and/or marriage in any way harm society, community, existing heterosexual relationships, and yours truly.

Since historical and, pointedly, Biblical evidence are ignored, maybe you could tell me where the boundaries end in all this. Because they for sure won't end with same-sex supporters getting satisfaction about marriage.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 39):
Did they feel the same way when Britney Spears got married?

I'm sure of the few who may have paid attention, those may have wondered how long (or short) it would have been before that was history.

Edited for content

[Edited 2009-04-04 08:13:31]
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Aaron747
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:15 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 41):

Since historical and, pointedly, Biblical evidence have flown (or even just crawled?) right over your head, maybe you could tell me where the boundaries end in all this.

What historical evidence, exactly? I'm all ears. If there are societies that have been worse off due to long-term presence of homosexuals, I'm interested to hear it.

I wouldn't call anything from the Bible 'evidence' so long as the book and its multitude of incarnations remain decidedly anecdotal. Never mind that the Bible and any evidence therein doesn't apply to the belief systems or life sphere of somewhere around 2/3 of humanity.

As for boundaries, if we're going to go down the absurd road of animal marriage and poly-whatever slipper slope fallacy again, forget it.
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D L X
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RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:24 pm



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 36):
In principle, yes - but what happens when a legislature makes a law that defines marriage as one man/one woman considering the language of a decision like Loving mentioned by GP? They could always introduce the legislation, and if it were to go through, they could possibly interpret equal protection to mean men and women have the right to marry, though, under the provisions of DOMA. And where does Loving fit in with DOMA anyway?

???

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you're asking.

In any event, it's not a "principle," it is the law of this country. The Constitution is always above the legislature, and it is the courts' JOB to smack down the legislature when it does something prohibited by the Constitution. The only thing is, someone has to bring suit: the courts cannot act without a suit.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 36):
I firmly believe that given the continual corrupt, twisted, activist, relativisitc reasoning of some of our courts, that you may be right.

 Yeah sure

Yeah. Whenever you hear a ruling that you disagree with, don't ever assume you might be wrong about the law. Just accuse the court of being corrupt.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:51 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 1):
First Sweden.. now Iowa..

What has the world come down to!

Just so. I had an electronic communication from the wilds of Iowa on Sat 4 Apr stating
Good day for Iowa

I confess I had to enquire what that might refer to wondering if Iowa was taking reflected glory for an Illinois (and other places) POTUS and received the following answer.
Our supreme court decided that a statute that proposed to restrict the
institution of marriage to a man and a woman was found unconstitutional.


So evidently all is well in Iowa!
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:05 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
if we're going to go down the absurd road of . . . poly-whatever slipper slope fallacy again, forget it

Brothers sharing a wife - http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...gation/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Hey, stuff happens. Why not here, ya know?  sarcastic 
Living the American Dream
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7184
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:11 pm

Hopefully this is one more step towards the un-pussification, un-politicalcorrectionism and the start of the end of bible-thumping-uber-right-wing-bigots in America.
 
Klima
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:18 am

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:24 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 40):
Still waiting for conclusive evidence that same-sex relations and/or marriage in any way harm society, community, existing heterosexual relationships, and yours truly.

Me too! But I have a feeling no one will find it.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
I wouldn't call anything from the Bible 'evidence' so long as the book and its multitude of incarnations remain decidedly anecdotal. Never mind that the Bible and any evidence therein doesn't apply to the belief systems or life sphere of somewhere around 2/3 of humanity.

 thumbsup 
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21804
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:43 am

Those of you bandying around "will of the people" will do well to remember: this country is not run by the will of the people. This is not a democracy. This is a representative democracy. You do not allow the people to directly establish laws without some checks and balances.

If the people vote to throw all the gays in the gas chambers, that doesn't mean that the "will of the people" should be followed.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Iowa Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Marriage Ban

Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:56 am

Christian values have their virtues... however, I think the Churches have become so hyper-focused on this issue that it's sickening. The Churches used to extol slavery because even Christ called on slaves to obey and serve their masters.

I don't think gays are totally innocent of promiscuity... but this may in large part be society's fault for driving gays into hidden, anonymous lives. A professor of mine once lectured that without hope we die. It's a sad situation with gays where there is no life after youth... to find a love and grow old together. It seems much of what I've seen of the gay lifestyle favors a lifetime of living in teenage years where sex is a currency and a means of ever increasing experimentation. That's why I think marriage will be good for gays where long-term thinking will supplant short term fun.

I do believe that marriage is a sacred institution that must be treated with respect. I think far too often couples marry awash with love only to find themselves in trouble when the tides dry. The people who's marriages last the longest are people who are their spouse's lover and friend. I hope that gays will be among the first of this new generation to rediscover this.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller

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