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klemmi85
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Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:13 pm

Hi guys  

This time my question isn't bout aviation at all but I guess you already guessed that  

As I'm going on vacation to Florida next month I try to figure out how the infrastructure is designed. I heard people say it's pretty easy to "navigate" if you know how the system works.

So what I know for now is this:

If the Interstate is odd-numbered it's going south-north or vice versa (I-95)
If the Interstate is even-numbered it's going east-west or vice versa (I-10)

If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "2" it's diverting through a city and joins back the Interstate it left at the end (I-295)

If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "5" it's ending within a city (I-595)

If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "6" it's a ring around a city (I-690)

Is this correct so far?

What I do not know right now is this:

1.) Ave., Blvd., Rd., Dr., St., Ct, Pkwy, Terrace
How do they match up? There must be some kind of system in it, right? I mean you just don't call it a street because it has concrete on it, could be a road then, too. Please enlighten me about that.

2.) What about Highways? Why is the there the US-1 and 30 miles more southern I get to know the US-441 ... What do the numbers mean here?

3.) Same thing about turnpikes. First of all, what IS a turnpike? I guess it's some kind of road leaving out the heavy traffic areas for smoother ride but also little remote from the cities? But what about them numbers?

4.) Let's say there's a fictious building which is adressed 1475 Mainstreet. Heard it has to do something with the block it's located at and the number of the building itself? What about a 5 or 6 digit number? 10050 for example?

5.) Let's say I see a roadsign. It states "NW 24th St". What exactly does it tell me? Well, yes it's the 24th Street BUT.. that does the NW indicate? Is it running from north to west, indicating it's running diagonally? Hard to imagine... so what is it all about?

6.) Sometimes there is a street, for example, NE 2nd street, followed by a NE 2md ct. What is that ct and why isn't it a 3rd street?


I would appreciate it very much if someone could tell me how it works. It's not my first time to the US but I never wondered about how it worked. So to fix this gap, I'm posting  

Also, if there is something I missed, I'd appreciate it if you'd mention it.

Thanks a lot in advance!!

kind regards,
Dennis

[Edited 2009-06-22 14:14:53]

[Edited 2009-06-22 14:16:02]
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petertenthije
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:30 pm

Can't help you with answers, but have on question for you if you don't mind:

Are you going on holiday, or are you planning some extraordinary rendition operation? Just rent a car with a GPS and be done with it! Big grin
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:36 pm



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 1):
Are you going on holiday, or are you planning some extraordinary rendition operation? Just rent a car with a GPS and be done with it! 

haha  Smile
No I'm not and I'm also familiar with the area I travel to but I just want to know how the infrastructure is designed. It's not essential for me for getting from A to B, just curious  Smile
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BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:37 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "2" it's diverting through a city and joins back the Interstate it left at the end (I-295)

Often 3 digit interstates are ring roads around a city. For example in St. Louis, 170 is the inner ring and 270 is the outer ring. Both of these are auxillary routes off of I-70. When using these roads, it is necessary to know where you are because the direction you want to go may be listed in a number of ways. If possible use the cities listed to help navigate rather than getting hung up on directions.

Other 3 digit interstates are spurs or shortcuts. I-155 is a spur of I-55 that goes off towards Peoria, while I-55 continues towards the twin cities.

I don't think that it matters what the preceding digit is in the three digit interstates as it only differentiates one from another. 170 and 270 are beltways in St. Louis while 470 and 670 are connectors in Kansas city.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
1.) Ave., Blvd., Rd., Dr., St., Ct, Pkwy, Terrace
How do they match up? There must be some kind of system in it, right?

A court (ct.) is a cul-de-sac or circle drive that is usually quite useless for getting anywhere. For that matter, I live on a cul-de-sac that is designated as a drive (dr.), though it is only a couple hundred feet long and leads absolutely nowhere. So there is no system, sorry. Perhaps at one time there was, but now it is more or less random.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
3.) Same thing about turnpikes. First of all, what IS a turnpike?

A turnpike is basically a toll-road or tollway. The tolls may be collected only at designated points or it may be a per mile thing as you enter and exit. Usually these are pretty intuitive, but be careful to use the cash lanes and not enter the lanes for the pass program. (whatever it may be called)

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
4.) Let's say there's a fictious building which is adressed 1475 Mainstreet. Heard it has to do something with the block it's located at and the number of the building itself? What about a 5 or 6 digit number? 10050 for example?

A building at 1475 would be in the "fourteen hundred block" and each block is one hundred whether or not there are actually one hundred buildings on the block which in not likely. If 1475 is the last building on that block, the building across the cross street from it will be 1501. As in most places, even numbers are on one side with odd on the other. A building with an address of 10050 is in the "ten hundred block" and is 4 blocks away from 1475.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
5.) Let's say I see a roadsign. It states "NW 24th St". What exactly does it tell me? Well, yes it's the 24th Street BUT.. that does the NW indicate? Is it running from north to west, indicating it's running diagonally? Hard to imagine... so what is it all about?

6.) Sometimes there is a street, for example, NE 2nd street, followed by a NE 2md ct. What is that ct and why isn't it a 3rd street?

This seems to vary greatly from place to place. But in some cases the 100 block of W 1st street is adjacent to 100 E 1st street and the numbers grow from there in their respective directions. This is by no means a hard and fast rule. In this case I'm afraid you may have to follow your nose.
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kingairta
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:49 pm

The only hard and fast rules are the interstate numbering. The ones with red and blue symbols. All the white ones are state highways or routes.

Don't try to make sense of them cause it varies from place to place.

Best to get yourself a local map and a good GPS unit.
 
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:40 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
A building with an address of 10050 is in the "ten hundred block" and is 4 blocks away from 1475.

Wouldn't 4 blocks away from 1475 be 1875 and 10050 be much, much further away than that? Like about 90 blocks?
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Mir
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:42 am



Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "2" it's diverting through a city and joins back the Interstate it left at the end (I-295)

If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "5" it's ending within a city (I-595)

If the Interstate is tripple digit and begins with a "6" it's a ring around a city (I-690)

Any triple digit Interstate that begins with an odd number (195, 395, etc.) is a spur road that ends in a city. Any triple digit interstate that begins with an even number (295, 495, etc.) is a ring road that goes around a city. The regular Interstate (95 in this example) is the one that goes through the city.

That's the general rule. There are, of course, exceptions which make everything confusing.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
2.) What about Highways? Why is the there the US-1 and 30 miles more southern I get to know the US-441 ... What do the numbers mean here?

The numbering rule only applies to Interstates. Yeah, you can find some vestiges of an attempt to make the US-routes have a numbering system that makes sense, but there are just too many of them to have a logical numbering system.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
3.) Same thing about turnpikes. First of all, what IS a turnpike? I guess it's some kind of road leaving out the heavy traffic areas for smoother ride but also little remote from the cities? But what about them numbers?

A turnpike is a toll road. They're not that different from an Interstate, just that you have to pay for them (and some Interstates have toll sections - the Massachusetts Turnpike along I-90, the Indiana Toll Road along I-80, etc.) The numbering makes sense if it's an Interstate with a toll section. Other than that, your mileage may vary.

Since you say you're going to Florida, I assume you're asking about the Florida Turnpike. There are also a bunch of State Roads around Orlando that are tolls (SR-417, SR-408, etc.). These are highways just like an Interstate, only you have to pay for them and they're not numbered as Interstates.

IINM, the reason for this is that when the Interstate system was built, it was decided that you couldn't have tolls on it, except for sections of highway that were already there (rather than build a whole new highway, they just ran the interstate over the toll road and kept both names - I-90 and the Massachusetts Turnpike, for instance). When states want to build a new highway, they either have to get federal funding for it, or do it themselves. Doing it themselves is easier, but since most states don't have the budget for building a highway, they make it a toll road, which automatically makes it ineligible to be classified as an Interstate. So they call it a state road. But there's really no difference. SR-417 around Orlando would be classified as I-204 if the toll booths weren't there.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
4.) Let's say there's a fictious building which is adressed 1475 Mainstreet. Heard it has to do something with the block it's located at and the number of the building itself? What about a 5 or 6 digit number? 10050 for example?

It can be related to the block, but more often it's just a matter of how far down the street a building is. The numbers start at one end of the street, and they get bigger as one moves down the street - odd numbers are on one side, even numbers on the other side. 5 or 6 digit numbers generally mean that the street is quite long.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
1.) Ave., Blvd., Rd., Dr., St., Ct, Pkwy, Terrace
How do they match up? There must be some kind of system in it, right? I mean you just don't call it a street because it has concrete on it, could be a road then, too. Please enlighten me about that.

As a very, very, very general rule:

Blvd - two segregated roads, one for each direction of travel, with several lanes each way and a median in between. Much like a highway except that it has traffic lights on it.

Avenue - a boulevard without the median. Normally has more than one lane for each direction of travel.

Road - a road with only one lane of travel per direction

Street - the same as a road, except that roads tend to extend outside of cities, and streets generally do not.

Court - small, cul-de-sac roads

Terrace - same thing as a Court

Drive - could be anything ranging from a boulevard to a street

Parkway - could be anything ranging from a highway to a street

A lot of it is just based off of what sounds best, to be honest. You can find exceptions to everything. It's best if you don't try to figure out what little bits of a system there is until you're in the country, otherwise you get really confused.

-Mir
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:59 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 6):

The numbering rule only applies to Interstates.

Not at all. It's actually the opposite for US routes. Lowest odd numbers are in the east and increase to the west. Example being US 1 on the East Coast to US 101 on the west coast. Lowest even numbers US routes start in the North and increase going South.
 
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:00 am

Already some very good advice here but Ill add about the house numbers. They get larger as you move away from the city center. Lets say you have 24th Ave. that runs through the city center and away north and south. Where it crosses 1st St or some other designated street, it will change from 24th Ave N to 24th Ave S. It may also have a section where its simply 24th Ave. The numbers will start at 1st St and get larger as you go farther away.

I remember something about a general rule about Avenues and Streets always running cross direction but that can probably vary too.
 
BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:24 am



Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):
Wouldn't 4 blocks away from 1475 be 1875 and 10050 be much, much further away than that? Like about 90 blocks?

Yeah you are right. I missed the extra zero. Actually the only numbers I've seen that big were in a subdivision with small streets that were no where near long enough to actually have adresses that high. I think that the entire subdivision used some sort of continuous system.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:04 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
As in most places, even numbers are on one side with odd on the other. A building with an address of 10050 is in the "ten hundred block" and is 4 blocks away from 1475.

The important thing here is the difference between most European street numbering systems and the American one. In most European cities, virtually any road or street can start with #1, usually at the end closest to the town center or the nearest major intersection. In the US, street numbers are normally relative to the city center, so that 13100 Wickersham Lane would be about 131 blocks distant from the city center, even if Wickersham Lane only exists for a couple of blocks, it's numbering mirrors that of the main road that runs just south of it.

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COIAHLGW
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:37 am

Another thing to think about, as noted in the Houston example above - is that the same road may be called multiple names. Westheimer Road is also called Farm-to-Market Road 1093 (shortened to FM1093).

We also have different names for freeways. Interstate 45, north of downtown is called the North Freeway. However, Interstate 45 south of downtown is called the Gulf Freeway.

I guess the bottom line is that I am +1 for a GPS device. It may be no substitute for local knowledge, but it will get you where you need to go!
 
BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:35 am



Quoting COIAHLGW (Reply 11):
We also have different names for freeways. Interstate 45, north of downtown is called the North Freeway. However, Interstate 45 south of downtown is called the Gulf Freeway.

Plus there are all sorts of things named in honor of people and "business" routes. It's a mess if you don't have a GPS, someone to help, or knowledge of the area.

Quoting COIAHLGW (Reply 11):
It may be no substitute for local knowledge,

You got that right. When I drive around I usually use the main roads and interstates and then I'll ride somewhere with my grandparents and they will drive down a residential street ,down an acess road to an office park, through an alley, and skirt around some parking lots and pop out right at our destination. It is like they have a totally different map of the city, but I guess that is what happens when you live somewhere for nearly 50 years.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:44 am

Three-digit interstate numbers are usually what they call "Bypasses", i.e., they take you around a major metro area, instead of going thorugh it. It's a good way to get into the suburbs around a big city.

The shortest Interstate I know of in the country has to be I-490, about 2 miles south of downtown Cleveland. It's 2.43 miles long. Wikipedia lists the shortest signed Interstate in the nation as I-375 in Detroit, which is 1.06 miles ong.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:07 am

Some southern cities (Fort Smith and Shreveport come to mind) have streets that seemingly end, only to start up again, several blocks later with the same name. Makes things very confusing, especially if you're new in town.
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2H4
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:15 am

Salt Lake City has an interesting street-numbering system. Starting at a central point in the city, each block is numbered in the hundreds, increasing as you extend further away from the central point.

In other words, if you drive seven blocks south and two blocks west from that central point, you'll be at the corner of 700 South, 200 West.

If someone tells you they live at 300N, 400W, you'll know they live three blocks north and four blocks west of the central point.

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vikkyvik
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:18 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
The important thing here is the difference between most European street numbering systems and the American one. In most European cities, virtually any road or street can start with #1, usually at the end closest to the town center or the nearest major intersection. In the US, street numbers are normally relative to the city center, so that 13100 Wickersham Lane would be about 131 blocks distant from the city center, even if Wickersham Lane only exists for a couple of blocks, it's numbering mirrors that of the main road that runs just south of it.

Definitely depends on where you are. In most of New England that I've been to, the house numbering starts at 1 on most streets, and they're numbered sequentially rather than by blocks.

Of course, that's probably a major consequence of the towns and cities not really having blocks - very windy roads.

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):

It can be related to the block, but more often it's just a matter of how far down the street a building is. The numbers start at one end of the street, and they get bigger as one moves down the street - odd numbers are on one side, even numbers on the other side. 5 or 6 digit numbers generally mean that the street is quite long.

That's definitely how it typically is in the northeast, at least, but many midwestern and western cities are designed and numbered based on blocks.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
5.) Let's say I see a roadsign. It states "NW 24th St". What exactly does it tell me? Well, yes it's the 24th Street BUT.. that does the NW indicate? Is it running from north to west, indicating it's running diagonally? Hard to imagine... so what is it all about?

Typically, NW 24th St. would mean that you're intersecting 24th street in the northwest quadrant of the city. Some cities (Miami and Washington DC come to mind) number like that. So if you start at the centerpoint of the numbering system and go 1 block north, you might intersect 2nd St. If you turn left (west), you'll be on NW 2nd St. If you turn right (east), you'll be on NE 2nd St.

Other cities (like Los Angeles) only use N, S, W, or E. So if you start at the intersection of Main St. and 1st St. (which is the centerpoint of LA's numbering scheme), and go a block south (on S Main St.), you'll intersect 2nd St. If you turn right (west), you'll be on W 2nd St. If you turn left (east), you'll be on E 2nd St.

If you instead went a block north (on N. Main St.), you'd hit Temple St. Turn left (west) and you'll be on W Temple. Turn right (east) and you'll be on E Temple.

In the greater Los Angeles area, it gets even more confusing, because some cities use Los Angeles' numbering scheme, but others have their own schemes. For example, you could start at the intersection of Prospect Ave. and Del Amo Blvd. in Redondo Beach, and you'd be at 400 N Prospect (Redondo Beach numbering scheme). But you then go a half mile east on Del Amo into Torrance, and you'll intersect Anza Ave. at 20200 (S) Anza Ave (there's no "S" because the city of Torrance is wholly south of the centerpoint, and Anza is fully within Torrance).

Hope I didn't confuse you too much  Smile

Quoting Kingairta (Reply 4):
All the white ones are state highways or routes.

US Highways also have white signage.

State highway numbering systems vary from state to state, and I've typically found that it's next-to-impossible to figure out any logical numbering scheme.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:22 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15):
Salt Lake City has an interesting street-numbering system. Starting at a central point in the city, each block is numbered in the hundreds, increasing as you extend further away from the central point.

In other words, if you drive seven blocks south and two blocks west from that central point, you'll be at the corner of 700 South, 200 West.

If someone tells you they live at 300N, 400W, you'll know they live three blocks north and four blocks west of the central point.

Actually, it's like this......I used to live at 132 East, 500 South in Bountiful, Utah.
The street name is 500 South and the house was just barely into the 2nd block, east of Main Street (the zero starting point going east and west). It's very easy once you get used to it.



Actually, most of the cities and towns in Utah are like this. This is how Brigham Young set it up when they were settling the state. The only places you'll find a difference is in some of the newer suburban areas.
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flymia
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:29 am

Wow this thread is confusing and I really dont know the answers to your questions off the top of my head. I know how to get around and how the street numbers work etc... Just never put that must thought into it. If you drive get a GPS. Florida is easy to drive around in if your on the coast just always remember which way the beach is and you can never get lost.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:44 am



Quoting COIAHLGW (Reply 11):
We also have different names for freeways. Interstate 45, north of downtown is called the North Freeway. However, Interstate 45 south of downtown is called the Gulf Freeway.



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
Plus there are all sorts of things named in honor of people and "business" routes. It's a mess if you don't have a GPS, someone to help, or knowledge of the area.

In Houston, US 59-South was named Senator Lloyd Benson Highway, but everyone knows it as the Southwest Freeway.

Also in Houston, there are technically 2 loops, with a 3rd that will be eventually completed. The main one is the 610 Loop, which follows the OPs, but not Mir's. The second loop is the Sam Houston Tollway, also known as Beltway 8. The outermost loop that is yet to be completed is SH 99, known as the Grand Parkway.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
5.) Let's say I see a roadsign. It states "NW 24th St". What exactly does it tell me? Well, yes it's the 24th Street BUT.. that does the NW indicate? Is it running from north to west, indicating it's running diagonally? Hard to imagine... so what is it all about?
6.) Sometimes there is a street, for example, NE 2nd street, followed by a NE 2md ct. What is that ct and why isn't it a 3rd street?

Others have given examples to #5. I know parts of Seattle area use this nomenclature as I usually stay off of NE 51st Street in Redmond. I like to think city planners took a map of the Seattle area and drew a Cartesian axis with Downtown Seattle as the "origin" and divided the area into quadrants: NE, NW, SW, and SE. Redmond falls in the NE quadrant of this graph!

As for #6, the only thing I can think of is the following. Streets are generally longer and more popular thoroughfares, while Courts are smaller neighborhood roads or side-streets. NE 2nd Ct could be a branch off of NE 2nd St that require a turn, while NE 3rd St would be roughly parallel to NE 2nd St. Also, NE 2nd Ct could bisect both NE 2nd St and NE 3rd St but deadend at NE 4th St.
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don81603
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:59 am

Interstates and US Highways:
Odd numbers are north and south, even numbers are east and west
Interstates are numbered west to east and south to north (I-5 on the west coast, I-95 on the east coast, I-10 across the southern states, I-90 in the north) US Highways are east to west.
On 3 digit interstates, if the first digit is even, it's a spur around a metropolitan area. If odd, it's a spur through or into a metropolitan area.

When using turnpikes, as has been stated, be sure to use the cash lanes, NOT the EZ-PASS, I-Pass, Fast Lane, I-ZOOM, or whatever the local electronic toll collection system is.

As for streets, avenues, roads, etc. How they determine which is which is, for the most part, anyone's guess.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:12 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
A turnpike is basically a toll-road or tollway.

Ah, ah, ah! Careful there. Not all Turnpikes have tolls. Great example is the US36 which is the Denver-Boulder Turnpike. There are no tolls on it at all. (Except for the express lanes which do not even go that far at all, which is only a half mile long coming and going onto I-25.)
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:51 am

Wow, lots of input here  Smile
First of all -> Thank you very much for explaining the "system" even though it's obvious now that sometimes, there is no system at all.

However, what I'd like to point out again, as many of you referred to it, I won't need a GPS because I'm familiar with the area I'm in (Miami-Dade-/ Broward County).

I was just curious wether there was a system or not and as I can see, thanks to your replies, there is some basic system to it but not everything can be reflected to that system, some things are just the way they are.

For the block thing again, I'm coming back to the 1475 example. So you say it's the fourteen-hundreth block. Means the adress is in between 1400 and 1500. Is the 75 stating that it's in the last quarter of the street then?

Another thing I stumbled upon is the HOV lane on Interstates. I was told it's for car-pools with the number indicating the min. amount of individuals in the car, so a HOV-2 lane indicates that the lane can be used by a car pool of two individuals or more, correct? However, let's say me and my friend cruise I-95 north and because of slow going traffic we decide to switch to the HOV-2 lane. Now as we are driving the police/statetrooper/whatever decides to check us. Does one have to proof we actually travel in a car pool from or to work? I mean there has to be some sense to it, not? Basically every car with two or more occupants could use the lane then?!

Furthermore, can each state give numbers to the Highways like they want to? There is a US-1 in CA and there is a US-1 in FL...?! guess they are not connected, are they? They also seem to be highways, at least the one in FL is called North Federal Highway in Broward County. Is double numbering possible because both US-1 are so far away from each other?

regards,
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Mir
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:17 am



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
Furthermore, can each state give numbers to the Highways like they want to? There is a US-1 in CA and there is a US-1 in FL...?! guess they are not connected, are they?

You may be thinking of CA-1, since US-1 runs along the east coast only. States can designate their own roads as whatever they want to, but it's the federal government that designates the Interstates and US roads (or at least they have to give their blessing on whatever the state wants to call it).

-Mir
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N867DA
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:26 am



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
There is a US-1 in CA and there is a US-1 in FL...?!

There is no US 1 in California. You may be thinking of California 1, which runs along the Pacific Ocean. US 1 runs from the Florida Keys to the Canadian border in Maine.

US Highways generally use the same numbering system as the interstates, but they are reversed. The lowest odd numbered roads are in the east, while the lowest even numbered routes are to the north.

There are plenty of exceptions and some weird explanations. US 101 for instance is by the Pacific Ocean. As a western route, it should start with a high number. I've heard that the first number in the route name is not 1 but 10.

Wikipedia saves the day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Highway
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tz757300
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:09 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
Does one have to proof we actually travel in a car pool from or to work? I mean there has to be some sense to it, not? Basically every car with two or more occupants could use the lane then?!

You do not have to be in a car pool. All the requirement is is that you have to have the minimum amount of passengers in the vehicle. Also, often HOV lanes accept motorcycles, which often only seat 1 person.
 
lincoln
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:14 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
1.) Ave., Blvd., Rd., Dr., St., Ct, Pkwy, Terrace
How do they match up? There must be some kind of system in it, right? I mean you just don't call it a street because it has concrete on it, could be a road then, too. Please enlighten me about that.

There are some very loose "rules" like a Blvd (Boulevard) or Parkway is generally wider and/or has a large center median, but beyond that it depends very much on the location. For example, the City of Cleveland (Ohio) has some very specific rules for what's a what where (a "Street" runs north/south, an "Avenue" runs east/west... On the other hand, the city I grew up in (much newer) it's "Whatever name the person who named the street liked best".

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
3.) Same thing about turnpikes. First of all, what IS a turnpike? I guess it's some kind of road leaving out the heavy traffic areas for smoother ride but also little remote from the cities? But what about them numbers?

Turnpikes almost always require the payment of a toll and aren't always numbered. Some of them, such as the Ohio Turnpike, carry Interstate numbers (I-80 and I-90 in this case) while others do not.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
4.) Let's say there's a fictious building which is adressed 1475 Mainstreet. Heard it has to do something with the block it's located at and the number of the building itself? What about a 5 or 6 digit number? 10050 for example?

I've never come across a 6-digit address... Here again, the only "reall" commonailty across the country is that odd numbers will be on one side, even numbers will be on the other and the numbering will run in a mostly sequential order (it's common for blocks of numbers to be skipped to allow for future construction, e.g. I grew up in 31357, but our next door neighbor was 31363). In cities with the "grid system" usually the numbering has some relationship relative to a center point (Downtown, etc), but in suburban areas with short curving streets you're better off not trying to make sense of it.

In Cleveland, on the other hand, for buildings on east/west streets the last two digits are the "building" number and the first 1-3 digits represent the block number as it relates to East/West street. For example 659 would be the 59th address beyond East or West 6th St.; 18501 would be the first address beyond East or West 185th St.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
5.) Let's say I see a roadsign. It states "NW 24th St". What exactly does it tell me? Well, yes it's the 24th Street BUT.. that does the NW indicate? Is it running from north to west, indicating it's running diagonally? Hard to imagine... so what is it all about?

Diagonal streets certainly exist. The particular meaning can depend (as everything else) on the particular city. One thing to be aware of is that East XYZ Street and XYZ Street East usually are very different things. My guess (probably wrong) would be the 24th street in the Northwest quadrant of the city

Where the direction comes first (East XYZ) it's usually an independent street. For eaxmple, Cleveland has an East 9th Street and a West 9th Street -- they are NOT the same thing. East 9th Street is 9 blocks East of downtown, West 9th street is 9 blocks West of downtown.

When the direction follows (XYZ West) it usually identifies a segment of the street, for example "Main Street West" would typically be the western half of Main Street -- and if you keep driving East you'd eventually get to "Main Street East".

Quoting Klemmi85 (Thread starter):
6.) Sometimes there is a street, for example, NE 2nd street, followed by a NE 2md ct. What is that ct and why isn't it a 3rd street?

As with everything else it depends! In the City of Cleveland "Street" is only attached to through/"long" streets where "Ct." is attached to roads that don't continue more than a block or two at most. so "2nd Ct." would be a short roadway near 2nd St.

Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
Another thing I stumbled upon is the HOV lane on Interstates. I was told it's for car-pools with the number indicating the min. amount of individuals in the car, so a HOV-2 lane indicates that the lane can be used by a car pool of two individuals or more, correct? However, let's say me and my friend cruise I-95 north and because of slow going traffic we decide to switch to the HOV-2 lane. Now as we are driving the police/statetrooper/whatever decides to check us. Does one have to proof we actually travel in a car pool from or to work? I mean there has to be some sense to it, not? Basically every car with two or more occupants could use the lane then?!

You're proof is that you have two people in the car! As long as you have the minimum number of people (2 or 3 are the most common) you're good to go -- the idea is to encourage people to share rides -- it doens't matter where you're going or why you're going there as long as you have at least X people in the car.

Be very careful to pay attention to the signs, however, many HOV lanes you may only enter or exit at specified points -- some you may enter or exit at will. Not all lanes with the "Diamond" symbol are HOV lanes, the "Diamond" symbol can also designate a Bicycle-only (usually much narrower) or Bus-only lane, so you want to see both the Diamond and either "HOV" or "Carpool" to be sure, for example:

http://driversed.com/courseware/images/hov_va.jpg

In California, for example, Southern California HOV lanes are "limited access" designated with a double-double yellow line (four yellow lines side by side); you may only enter or exit at designated locations with a dashed white stripe (and usually overhead signage), on the other hand most Northern California HOV lanes are "free flow" where you may enter or exit at will.

Enjoy your stay!
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sw733
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:57 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 15):
If someone tells you they live at 300N, 400W, you'll know they live three blocks north and four blocks west of the central point.

Yeah it's kind of like that in Palmdale/Lancaster, California too. For example, 30th Street West is a mile west of 20th Street West which is a mile west of 10th Street West. Avenue R mile a mile north of Avenue S which is a mile north of Avenue T. And of course that leads to things like Avenue R-12 and Avenue K-4...it's kind of nice because you always know exactly how far it is to someplace.
 
kingairta
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:59 pm

For the HOV lanes if there is a double solid white line don't cross it. Treat it like a wall. Only time you can enter and leave the HOV lane is at designated areas. The lines will be broken.
Here in the ATL area I see people getting pulled over all the time for crossing those solid lines.
Many cities are even opening up HOV lanes to hybrid vehicles that only have one person in them. There will be signage letting you know.
 
BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:32 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
For the block thing again, I'm coming back to the 1475 example. So you say it's the fourteen-hundreth block. Means the adress is in between 1400 and 1500. Is the 75 stating that it's in the last quarter of the street then?

Not necessarily. Also, as someone pointed out, some numbers may be skipped, if a building is on a double lot or something. It wouldn't be uncommon to see 1475 and 1479 adjacent to each other and buildings on corners may have their address on either street.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:25 pm



Quoting N867DA (Reply 24):
US 101 for instance is by the Pacific Ocean. As a western route, it should start with a high number. I've heard that the first number in the route name is not 1 but 10

In that particular case, 101 is being used at the high end (>99); that's why it's located along the West Coast. In the U.S. highway system (which actually isn't a federal system despite its name classification), if the last digit of a route number (up to 101) is either a '0', '1' or '5'; it is usually a longer route.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 29):
It wouldn't be uncommon to see 1475 and 1479 adjacent to each other and buildings on corners may have their address on either street.

In two situations, I've seen a house located on an intersection corner with 2 different street addresses; and only one of them was a dual residence with 2 different entrances.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Wikipedia lists the shortest signed Interstate in the nation as I-375 in Detroit, which is 1.06 miles ong.

I-189 in Burlington, Vermont and I-579 in Pittsburgh are probably not that far behind in terms of being the shortest-length Interstate and all are definitely shorter than I-490 in Cleveland.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
I don't think that it matters what the preceding digit is in the three digit interstates as it only differentiates one from another. 170 and 270 are beltways in St. Louis while 470 and 670 are connectors in Kansas city.

Actually, when one looks at road map of the St. Louis area; I-170, while it does bypass St. Louis is not a true beltway/loop like I-270 is. Of course, it's not a true spur route either. The Kansas City I-470 and I-670 are examples of a lower-leg beltway (470) and a cut-across/bypass (670).

In general, for 3-digit Interstates (defintion from a Rand McNally atlas) the first digit even is used for routes going through or around a city. The first digit odd is used for routes that spur into a city. Granted, there are either exceptions or stretches of this definition.

Examples: I-195 in New Jersey doesn't really spur into Trenton; west of I-295, the road continues as State Route 29.

In the Camden/Philly area, while I-676 acts as a loop or bypass for the nearby I-76; it could've been designated as a spur Interstate (I-576) because the route ends in Philly.

When the Interstate system was originally launched in 1956, the numbering guidelines might have been more strict. However, with additional routes being added (many of which are redesignations of non-Interstate highways as opposed to new construction); it's not always practical to designate a number that will sequentially conform 100% with the rest of the system.

Although the largest breach of the Interstate numbering system has to be the designation of I-99 (formerly US 220) in central Pennsylvania during the 1990s. A 3-digit Interstate number (either 270, 280 or 876) would've been more appropriate IMHO.
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:29 pm

Thanks guys,
you were very helpful. Now I know everything there is to know about the shrimping business, you can make shrimp cocktail ..... oh wait, wrong situation (anyone saw Forrest Gump  Smile  Smile ? )

For real, I highly appreciate your very detailed explanations. The whole thing is much more complex than here in germany (well, we do have less roads I admit). However, now I have very good foundation of how it's designed, thanks to your participation.

have a nice day  Smile

regards,
Dennis
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2H4
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:59 pm

A couple of random thoughts:

- Although odd-numbered highways are north/south, and even-numbered highways are east/west, this can vary at times. The stretch of I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee, for example, is north/south for over 100 miles.

- When you see an address with a "½" at the end, that indicates an upstairs dwelling. A house might have an address of 210 Main Street, but the upstairs apartment might be 210 ½ Main Street.

2H4
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7324ever
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:10 pm

One cool thing with the intrastate infrastructure is it is the ultimate defense transport and defense network if one highway gets destroyed they con connect onto another one to get where they are going with less than 5hr delay. For every one mile of curves there are 5 miles of straight away to land aircraft on (this was back in the 50s-70s were you could land a fighter on the given length.
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aznmadsci
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:13 pm

To add to a bit of confusion regarding HOV-High Occupancy Vehicle, there are also HOT lanes. HOV lanes are similar to carpool lanes, and the most common feature/requirement to use the HOV are the 2+ requirement, or the number of axles on a vehicle is the minimum number of passengers on that vehicle. A car has 2 axles, so a minimum of 2. In Houston, most of the HOV lanes are a walled-off single lane with particular entrances and it depends on the time of that that you could use the lane. In the mornings, HOV traffic goes inbound to Downtown Houston only, usually from 06:00 to 11:00. From 14:00 to 20:00 the primary direction is outbound for the commute home. There is that downtime where transportation crew closes the entrances to the HOV and prepares for the outbound times. On one freeway, the minimum number of passengers jumps from 2+ to 3+ at peak times.

I-10 is rather interesting in Houston. With the recent expansion, it contains 2 types of HOV/HOT lanes. HOT lanes (High Occupancy Toll) are relatively new and a bit confusing at first. They are similar to HOV lanes since they are free based on the 2+ requirement. However for a solo driver during peak times will be charged a toll based on the time of day to use the lanes while 2+ cars will not be charged. Tolls are taken from an electronic tag, in Texas the common use tag is called TxTag which can be used at all toll roads in Dallas, Austin, and Houston. In Houston there are a number of toll roads that restrict use to TxTag/EZTag users making the use barrier free. Illegal users get their pictures taken when they go through the "arch of toll sensors" along with a hefty fine. On the new HOT lanes on I-10, there are 2 lanes each way, which allows use of the lanes 24-hrs a day. On peak, the inner-most lane are reserved for HOT while the outer-most lane is HOV. There are toll sensors along with police who monitor illegal use of the lane. During off-peak and weekends these lanes can be used regardless of number of passengers in the car and tolls electronically taken. I've gotten to love these lanes, especially when I visit my parents as I don't like the insanity of drivers going off-and-on I-10, and glad to fork $1.00 in tolls to be among the few crazy ones to have a car free lane!
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vikkyvik
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:14 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
Furthermore, can each state give numbers to the Highways like they want to? There is a US-1 in CA and there is a US-1 in FL...?!

Funny you mentioned that - I used to think the same thing (before I moved to Los Angeles, and found that it was CA-1 here, not US-1).

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 32):
- When you see an address with a "½" at the end, that indicates an upstairs dwelling. A house might have an address of 210 Main Street, but the upstairs apartment might be 210 ½ Main Street.

Not always. There are plenty of 1/2's here (and 1/4's and 3/4's) that are also first-floor dwellings. Frequently they'll be around back or something.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 33):
For every one mile of curves there are 5 miles of straight away to land aircraft on (this was back in the 50s-70s were you could land a fighter on the given length.

That's an urban legend. I can point out plenty of interstate sections where this isn't the case.
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2H4
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:16 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 35):
Not always. There are plenty of 1/2's here (and 1/4's and 3/4's) that are also first-floor dwellings. Frequently they'll be around back or something.

Interesting. Never knew that.

2H4
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:04 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 35):
Funny you mentioned that - I used to think the same thing (before I moved to Los Angeles, and found that it was CA-1 here, not US-1).

Good to know that it doesn't happen to foreigners only  Smile

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 35):
Not always. There are plenty of 1/2's here (and 1/4's and 3/4's) that are also first-floor dwellings. Frequently they'll be around back or something.

ookay.. using fractions is def new to me.


Is it true that I can overtake other cars on the left or right side? Here in Germany overtaking on the right is a serious problem if you get cought, basically I think this is just because we have fewer lanes per direction (even on the Autobahn we only have two to three lanes with exceptions to some very large cities like Frankfurt or Berlin where you'll find 4 lanes) and are allowed to travel at a much higher speed (often as fast as your car can go).
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BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:07 am



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 37):
Is it true that I can overtake other cars on the left or right side?

Technically it is not right, but people do it, and sometimes you will too since many American drivers are inattentive idiots. Germans are far superior in this respect. When they (and I) are driving, they are driving. Not eating, texting or God knows what else. I heard that Porsche engineers were baffled as to why Americans felt the need to have cupholders in their cars. Oh and just wait until you drive somwhere during the summer or especially the weekends when the motorhomes are out. That is an entirely different class of stupid driver...

But chances are the cops wouldn't even give passing on the right a second look. Unless you are speeding excessively and/or weaving in and out of traffic. And by the way, most American interstates are two lanes in each direction except for urban and some heavily traveled rural areas. I often drive from my home to St. Louis. On the ~220 mile trip, about 80-90% of it is four-lane interstate.
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mayor
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:23 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 32):
The stretch of I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee, for example, is north/south for over 100 miles.

It does go generally east to west, though.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Interstate_94_map.png/800px-Interstate_94_map.png
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flymia
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:08 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 22):
Furthermore, can each state give numbers to the Highways like they want to? There is a US-1 in CA and there is a US-1 in FL...?! guess they are not connected, are they? They also seem to be highways, at least the one in FL is called North Federal Highway in Broward County. Is double numbering possible because both US-1 are so far away from each other?

There are State Roads and Federal roads and highways. In Florida State road markings have the number and a outline of the state of Florida. Now interstate highways have the same name no matter where they are. But federal roads such as US-1 which goes through east coast can have different names but it is always referred to as US-1 also. For example US in Miami-Dade county is called Biscayne Blvd on street signs you will see Biscayne Blvd/US-1 In Broward the county North of Miami-Dade it is called Federal Highway/US-1 but both are the same US-1.
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
Technically it is not right, but people do it, and sometimes you will too since many American drivers are inattentive idiots. Germans are far superior in this respect. When they (and I) are driving, they are driving. Not eating, texting or God knows what else. I heard that Porsche engineers were baffled as to why Americans felt the need to have cupholders in their cars. Oh and just wait until you drive somwhere during the summer or especially the weekends when the motorhomes are out. That is an entirely different class of stupid driver...

Well, to be honest, those stupid drivers occur here, too. Some are totally inattentive and just focus on not coming off the road. Looking in the mirror if something comes from behind? No way, being one mile per hour faster than a truck IS a good reason to occupy the second lane. Happens very often to me, extremely annoying, especially at night, the Autobahn is absolutely free of traffic, you set the cruise control to 250km/h and let it roll. Somewhere in the distance you see a truck with a single car behind this truck. So you are approaching pretty fast and you can almost bet that this stupid driver pulls over one second before you would have passed. You only have two options... hit the brakes or make use of our emergency lane to pass by

And you have those who occupy the left lane although there would be enough space on the right side. One is forced to stay behind until the driver finally pulls over to make room for us who have appointments. Sometimes you don't want to wait and pass on the right then. Just don't let yourself be caught.

What I can assure you is, that you have germans who drink, eat, talk on the phone, read a letter or just search something in the footwell of the co-driver. Not only in the US! But I guess you have it more distinct than we. Someone once told me, the average american doesn't drive in his car, he lives in his car  Smile
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lincoln
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:57 pm



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 40):
Now interstate highways have the same name no matter where they are

Although it's worth noting that this applies only to the 1- and 2- digit Interstates (5, 95, etc.) the 3-digit spurs and loops are frequently duplicated across the country -- For example, off the top of my head, I've driven on Interstate 215 in both California and Nevada... But you can't get from Nevada's I-215 to California's I-215. I'm also aware of at least two different I-480s (Ohio and Nebraska/Iowa, plus two more that were either planned and never built or built with different numbers (California and Pennsylvania)

Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 41):
the average american doesn't drive in his car, he lives in his car

This is really very true -- especially from some suburbanite Southern Californians who can easily have a 3+ hour communt each way-- you drink, eat, listen to music, talk on the phone, I've seen women putting makeup on, men shaving, people reading newspapers, novels, maps...watching DVD's...

Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 41):
Sometimes you don't want to wait and pass on the right then. Just don't let yourself be caught.

The philosophy regarding speed/traffic law enforcement varries widely from state to state. A general rule of thumb for everything except speed limits is "don't do anything incredibly dangerous in front of a police officer and you're OK".

Speed limits in particular, there is huge variation -- California and Michigan essentially subscribe to the "go as fast as the flow of traffic" philosophy -- If the speed limit is 70, it's not uncommon for me to be doing ~80-85 and still have cars passing me when I'm back home.

Ohion, on the other hand has a much more "the speed limit is the speed limit" attitude -- even when the limits are unreasonably low. If there are 20 cars doing 70 in a 60, there's a good chance that there will be 20 officers on a ramp somewhere waiting to pull them all over.

After spending a week down there, I still can't figure out what's going on with Florida -- some people are driving like 15-20 under the limit, others are easily 20 over, and I didn't see a single police officer while I was there.

I guess it really comes down to "When in Rome do as the Romans" -- I spend the first few hours in any state (and some cities) driving completely by the book while I watch what everyone else is doing and adapt from there.

Lincoln
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klemmi85
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
I guess it really comes down to "When in Rome do as the Romans" -- I spend the first few hours in any state (and some cities) driving completely by the book while I watch what everyone else is doing and adapt from there.

I think, thats a good attitude. Is there a website which tells me the fine I have to pay if I was to fast? In Germany we have a fine catalog to look up what we have to expect.

Last time when I was in Florida, there were many signs stating fines from 500 - 1.500$ for things like parking in a lot for disabled people, throwing junk out of your car and stuff like that. Won't do that of course, I'm just wondering if the fines for speeding are also very high.
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mayor
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:18 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
For example, off the top of my head, I've driven on Interstate 215 in both California and Nevada....

There's also an I-215 in SLC.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
But you can't get from Nevada's I-215 to California's I-215.

Sure you can. If both I-215s are belt routes off of I-15, I imagine around Las Vegas and Los Angeles, you should be able to take I-215 in Nevada, connect to I-15 to LA and then get on I-215 somewhere in the LA area.

I think.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:25 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 44):
Sure you can. If both I-215s are belt routes off of I-15, I imagine around Las Vegas and Los Angeles, you should be able to take I-215 in Nevada, connect to I-15 to LA and then get on I-215 somewhere in the LA area.

I think he meant that the two I-215's don't connect on their own - they're not the same highway, despite having the same name.

The 3-digit interstate spurs are allowed to be repeated in multiple states, seeing as you only have 9 options per interstate.
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 45):
I think he meant that the two I-215's don't connect on their own - they're not the same highway, despite having the same name.

What he said was this:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
But you can't get from Nevada's I-215 to California's I-215.

He didn't state that the two didn't connect, although they do, indirectely......or that they're not the same highway.

Having said that, how many other I-215 belt routes are there between I-15's origin at the Canadian border and termination in San Diego?
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BMI727
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Klemmi85 (Reply 43):
Last time when I was in Florida, there were many signs stating fines from 500 - 1.500$ for things like parking in a lot for disabled people, throwing junk out of your car and stuff like that. Won't do that of course, I'm just wondering if the fines for speeding are also very high.

Those fines are pretty high. A garden variety speeding ticket is somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 but speeding in a construction zone is more like $300-400. As previously stated, most cops are pretty easy going and just don't do anything unsafe and they'll most likely leave you alone.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 46):
What he said was this:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
But you can't get from Nevada's I-215 to California's I-215.

He didn't state that the two didn't connect, although they do, indirectely......or that they're not the same highway.

I read what he said. I was judging based on context, like the previous sentence:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 42):
Although it's worth noting that this applies only to the 1- and 2- digit Interstates (5, 95, etc.) the 3-digit spurs and loops are frequently duplicated across the country

It would be utterly ridiculous to suggest that you couldn't get from one interstate to another. There are thousands of different ways to go about it, when you take local roads and such into account. So I'm assuming he didn't mean to suggest that.  Smile
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RE: Infrastructure Question About The USA

Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:01 pm

So, we're supposed to read between the lines instead of what is actually written? You could be correct, in that, that was what he meant. But, until I hear from him with a correction, I'll go with what I've read and how I interpret it.

Ok...back on topic, now, lest I get in more trouble.................

There's also an I-294 belt route (Tri State Tollway) that connects to I-94 on both ends of the Chicago area.
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