Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 24910
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:14 am

A British woman is suing U.S. clothing retailer Abercrombie & Fitch Co., saying her prosthetic arm made her the subject of ridicule and that she was sent to work in the stock room for violating the company's "look policy."

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle...or_discrimination_after_being.html

Dont know how much of this is true but would be surprised if they can get away with it if is true. Currently being heard in the UK courts and awaiting outcome.

I know in the past A&F have been involved in Race issues also.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15470
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:47 am

A&F is in sharp decline in the USA market. Several scandals as to employment discrimation (especially as to race, anyone a darker skin color than light tan), overly sexual advertising, selling products with nude or near nude bodies of models and so on have haunted them. Other stores with more moderate prices (H&M, American Eagle, et al) have gained as sell clothes, not sex in their ads. Guess too all those kids don't have daddy's AMEX to buy with anymore. If they discrimated against this woman in the UK, I bet they have broken a number of laws and may get some comp pounds out of it.
 
vapar8
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:49 am

Sounds true, use to work there.

If you didn't look good you were told we were NOT hiring or you worked in the stock room.
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:35 am



Quoting Vapar8 (Reply 2):
Sounds true, use to work there.

If you didn't look good you were told we were NOT hiring or you worked in the stock room.

Wow, I remember when A & F was a stuffy men's outdoor store. They sold guns, hunting clothes, tents, etc. I remember the store at a local mall, in St. Louis, being a place that no teens wanted to hang out in. A few short years later no grown man would set foot in one.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18285
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:23 am

How do model agencies get around the whole "look policy"? Clearly they discriminate on all sorts of characteristics.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
san747
Posts: 4361
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:57 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
How do model agencies get around the whole "look policy"? Clearly they discriminate on all sorts of characteristics.

Must have something to do with a candidate's potential to book shoots and other modeling jobs. They can probably justify not investing in an "ugly" or less than 100% attractive person because there is likely less return on the investment.

That's the best I can think of...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:16 am

Just about everyone I've spoken to who's worked there or knew people who worked there said that the company puts forth an "image" akin to Hitler's super race ideals. Everyone who works there is above average to good looking.... no minorities need apply though. That's all well and good though, because people nowadays vote with their pocketbooks... if there are enough Aryans to make A&F profitable, then more power to them... I'll just take my money elsewhere.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 13014
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:23 am



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 6):
Everyone who works there is above average to good looking.... no minorities need apply though. That's all well and good though, because people nowadays vote with their pocketbooks... if there are enough Aryans to make A&F profitable, then more power to them... I'll just take my money elsewhere.

Not quite so depending on their local market. Back in the day when it was cool to work there, at least where I went to high school in California, you could walk into the local store and see all the slinky black cheerleader-wannabes and prissy Asian sexpots your heart desired. At least most of us guys were never complaining. Haven't been back in some years so I don't know who they've got working there now.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 24910
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:18 am

I have to say its a shame as I do like their stuff. They also have the most amazing aftershave called Fierce, some of you probably know it. Tommy Hilfiger also had bad press, IIRC he said that ( Quote ) '' If he knew Blacks and Latinos were going to wear his clothes he wouldnt have designed them so well''. Thats what I read anyway.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 6012
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discriminat

Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:35 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
Other stores with more moderate prices (H&M, American Eagle, et al) have gained as sell clothes, not sex in their ads.

You think that a store that uses Stephanie Seymour and Salma Hayek as models isn't selling sex? They are just less sleezy about it.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18285
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:23 pm



Quoting San747 (Reply 5):
Must have something to do with a candidate's potential to book shoots and other modeling jobs. They can probably justify not investing in an "ugly" or less than 100% attractive person because there is likely less return on the investment.

There's got to be some kind of legal cover though; perhaps if your look is critical to the job (as opposed to flight attendants, for example, where it's not).
I don't take responsibility at all
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:57 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
They also have the most amazing aftershave called Fierce, some of you probably know it.

Yeah, the most amazingly BAD aftershave. You get smacked with the overwhelming stench of that crap if you walk within 50 feet of the entrance of an A&F store.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
Tommy Hilfiger also had bad press, IIRC he said that ( Quote ) '' If he knew Blacks and Latinos were going to wear his clothes he wouldnt have designed them so well''. Thats what I read anyway.

Malicious internet rumor that was debunked a long time ago. He never said any such thing.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/tommy-hilfiger-rumour.html

These are pretty funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-WzqfbVHU
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 24910
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:00 pm



Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 11):
Yeah, the most amazingly BAD aftershave.

NOOOO its lovely .
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:04 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
NOOOO its lovely .

Hey, "To each, her own..."  Wink but I get a headache just thinking about that smell.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 24910
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:07 pm



Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 13):
but I get a headache just thinking about that smell.

Well I guess I can let you off , its not your fault lol.. Theres a certain Anetter that wears it and Im jealous that he has a bottle and I have run out . A trip to New York is on the cards !!
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:13 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
There's got to be some kind of legal cover though; perhaps if your look is critical to the job (as opposed to flight attendants, for example, where it's not).

Yep - Hooters can get away with it too, I believe (part of the Hooters experience unique to the chain).
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
N867DA
Posts: 1355
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:16 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
There's got to be some kind of legal cover though; perhaps if your look is critical to the job (as opposed to flight attendants, for example, where it's not).

Since when has selling clothes required beauty? Does Walmart know about this requirement? I can understand the need for attractive models but if a store needs attractive salespeople then airlines should be able to get away with hiring only attractive flight attendants.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 15):
Yep - Hooters can get away with it too

Not in Austria, at least in my experience!  Silly
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
trident3
Posts: 992
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:19 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
How do model agencies get around the whole "look policy"? Clearly they discriminate on all sorts of characteristics.

The models are not employed by the agency,they pay the agency to find them work so the agency can pick and choose who they work for on the basis of who is likely to pay them the most
"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18285
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:04 pm



Quoting N867DA (Reply 16):
I can understand the need for attractive models but if a store needs attractive salespeople

What's the difference? Aren't both ultimately trying to sell you clothes?

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 15):
Yep - Hooters can get away with it too, I believe (part of the Hooters experience unique to the chain).

I know they got sued by a guy that wanted to be a Hooters girl. How do they get away with not hiring men or uggos? Looks are obviously not job critical to carrying a tray Smile.

Quoting Trident3 (Reply 17):
The models are not employed by the agency,they pay the agency to find them work so the agency can pick and choose who they work for on the basis of who is likely to pay them the most

Well somebody, somewhere, is discriminating on looks. I'm just curious how they get around the laws that prohibit that.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
N867DA
Posts: 1355
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:07 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
What's the difference? Aren't both ultimately trying to sell you clothes?

The model is advertising clothes. The salesperson is assisting the customer. While both of them are indeed ultimately selling clothes their job description is completely different.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
TristarAtLCA
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:16 pm

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:18 pm

The issue in this case is not that the salesgirl was not attractive enough to sell A&F clothes but that her disability led to discrimination in the workplace.

Discrimination in the workplace due to disability is an area where legislation has been beefed up in the UK.
If you was right..................I'd agree with you
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2514
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:03 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
A British woman is suing U.S. clothing retailer Abercrombie & Fitch Co., saying her prosthetic arm made her the subject of ridicule and that she was sent to work in the stock room for violating the company's "look policy."

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle...or_discrimination_after_being.html

Dont know how much of this is true but would be surprised if they can get away with it if is true. Currently being heard in the UK courts and awaiting outcome.

I know in the past A&F have been involved in Race issues also.

Hard to believe A&F would have such myopic discriminatory views on a woman missing an arm, her prosthesis looks very good in fact.

Don't know how it works in other countries, but here in the US, A&F pretty much has a "whites only" policy. This has tainted them in my eyes. Every time I see someone with their clothing on I feel disgusted, sorry I know it is very popular in some circles. Whenever I see someone in their clothes who is not "the look" (read white, fit, and cookie-cutter) I wonder why they would put that on. I will not even set foot in their stores.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:30 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
How do model agencies get around the whole "look policy"? Clearly they discriminate on all sorts of characteristics.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
There's got to be some kind of legal cover though; perhaps if your look is critical to the job (as opposed to flight attendants, for example, where it's not).

Yep - the legal cover is called a "Bona Fide Occupational Qualification." The idea is that some positions require, or at least allow, employers to consider certain attributes that would otherwise be considered illegal discrimination under the Civil Rights Acts, the Americans with Disabilities Act, etc. Burden of proof of whether or not the discrimination constitutes a BFOQ lies with the employer.

Classic example is in the entertainment industry: if you're casting a movie about Abraham Lincoln, you only have to consider tall white males over a certain age for Abe, it's perfectly legal to not consider women, blacks, Asians, short people, whatever.

Another example is a strength requirement - for example, a butcher's shop can require that a butcher be able to handle sides of beef, or a package delivery firm that delivers large parcels can require the ability to lift a certain amount of weight, even if those requirements have a disparate impact on women, provided the employer can prove the requirement is legitimate.

It starts to get a little stickier when you move away from obvious examples like that. The courts have upheld, for example, that athletic supplement stores can refuse to hire obese people, as they don't represent the product well. At least that's true under US Federal law, where overweight people are not a protected class under the CRAs or the ADA - the courts have been quite clear on that. However, some states and cities have laws granting additional protection - an overweight woman in San Francisco won a case against a health club that refused to hire her as an aerobic instructor...she proved she was, in fact, aerobically fit enough to teach the class and local law did not accept appearance (for marketing purposes) as a BFOQ.

Now the case in question is in England, and I don't know how similar (or not) British law and EU regulations are to ours. I believe the concept of the BFOQ is rooted in Common Law, though, so unless UK law specifically disallows it, A&F can argue that appearance is a legitimate marketing tool and that her prosthetic arm (or, according to the article, the sweater that she was initially allowed to cover it with) weren't compatible with the store's marketing image.

Unless there are specifics to the UK law I'm not aware of, though, I think A&F may lose this one - she's quite pretty, I actually didn't notice the prosthetic for a few seconds, and I think A&F will be hard-pressed to argue that the prosthetic detracts from her appearance enough to make it an issue, and unless she deliberately concealed it during the hiring process, they had already accepted it by hiring her and putting her on the sales floor.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
I know they got sued by a guy that wanted to be a Hooters girl.

The Federal Court chucked the case - ruled the restaurant format was an entertainment concept and therefore having only female servers (and those, in turn, having to meet appearance requirements), was a BFOQ. The Labor Department apparently chose not to appeal. The huge billboards showing a fat, hairy man in a Hooters Girl uniform that Hooters put up in some cities (I saw several in Tampa Bay, where Hooters is headquartered) may have helped, since it made the government look very foolish...
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Woman Sues Abercrombie & Fitch For Discrimination

Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:59 pm



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 21):
Hard to believe A&F would have such myopic discriminatory views on a woman missing an arm, her prosthesis looks very good in fact.

Don't know how it works in other countries, but here in the US, A&F pretty much has a "whites only" policy.



Quoting N867DA (Reply 16):
Since when has selling clothes required beauty? Does Walmart know about this requirement? I can understand the need for attractive models but if a store needs attractive salespeople then airlines should be able to get away with hiring only attractive flight attendants.



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 6):
Just about everyone I've spoken to who's worked there or knew people who worked there said that the company puts forth an "image" akin to Hitler's super race ideals. Everyone who works there is above average to good looking.... no minorities need apply though.

Sigh.

I worked for Abercrombie and Fitch for about two years in a couple of locations in Atlanta and Dallas. I also shopped there for about a decade (I'm more J. Crew now). Minorities are fairly well represented at Abercrombie and Fitch, I can't count how many blacks, Asians, and Hispanics I worked with. Good looking (the "unattractive" people worked in back, yes, but all white? Definitely not. One can say though that since A&F is marketed more towards white teenagers and 20-somethings, naturally, more of those would consider employment there.

As for the Walmart argument, have you noticed that the pictures of people wearing clothing at Walmart are models? They don't have pictures of some 400 lb. mess wearing Dickies overalls or some landscaper wearing their $9 jeans. Abercrombie took it one step further and has good looking models and good looking people selling their clothes, making the connection in people's minds that "only beautiful people wear Abercrombie." Don't get me wrong Abercrombie has arrogance written all over them, but it's fairly innocent.

What A&F's marketing strategy is downright brilliant, and has really hurt companies like Gap and Aeropostale in terms of the white 18-34 crowd. Will they be able to keep it up forever, who knows.

Don't misrepresent what the company is, or compare it to Hitler's racial policies, because then you just sound like a fat girl who can't fit into a pair of A&F size 14 pants.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BaconButty, BlueberryWheats, flyguy89 and 27 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos