Quoting D L X (Reply 49): careful with the quotes. I did not write that

DTW is in need of a good editor.* Sorry about that.





*Notice Eastern Elitist Liberal's ability for self-abasing humor.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19): It's a half-assed attempt to defame someone, a childish prank.

She's a public figure at the highest levels (a state governor and former vp contender) and the "fair comment" doctrine would save VF from any libel/slander suit. Hell, Tina Fey would be in jail by now if mocking Pailn constituted libel

Quoting DXing (Reply 27): Palin can deliver a speech with enthusiasm and conviction every bit as well as President Obama given the same tools.

Give me a break. Palin is as ignorant as they come, as was exposed several times in media interviews with largely soft-ball questions thrown at her. I was stunned at how uninformed she was (and probably still is). There is nothing more dangerous in politics than a "populist" who can charm the good ole boys but would flunk the average high school history test.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 35): So part of Palin's charm is that she can't deliver a proper speech? Hell, I suppose it worked for Bush...

   I had exactly the same thought.

Quoting DXing (Reply 43): Factually she is correct. She does not say that Alaska was purchased during Lincolns administration, only that Seward was in Lincoln's cabinet, which he was.

Nice try. If the governor of Alaska is unclear about the US acquisition of the territory, i.e. under whose administration did it take place, she has no business being in the office. Didn't she say she could see Russia from Alaska? Certainly not from Wasilla.

Vanity Fair's attempt to give her speech some credibility is a cheap shot, frankly. The woman is a total loser but I don't believe in ridicule after the fact. Besides, I'm one of those who believes that the electorate should see their candidates in all their glory without any polish. She has just enough charm that a skilled handler could probably get her elected (if she listened to the advice), and that would be a catastrophe.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 46): The VF article presents both the original and the corrected version.

And I was addressing the edited version although honestly, the version the magazine edited is a transcribed version of her speech, not what she might have actually wrote.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 46): No, he doesn't. The editor correctly observed that one does not come on a place, one comes to a place - Palin used the wrong preposition. The action of coming was not performed on the shore of Lake Lucille, it was performed in the direction of the shores of Lake Lucille.

???? He strikes "This is" and replaces it with "You are" which completely misrepresents what she was saying. A check of the video, linked in reply 23, shows that she turns and looks briefly at the lake when she says "This is a source of inspiration....". The editor got it wrong because he didn't watch the speech, just read from the transcript which also causes him some errors farther in.

Quoting D L X (Reply 47): Come on man, that's a weasily answer.

Oh well, the facts are the facts.

Quoting D L X (Reply 47): "Of course not the actual speech, just what they could transcribe off of a video." So, are you denying that the transcription was not her actual speech?

You have no proof, anymore than I do, that she did not ad lib on the fly from what was written on the paper before her. So the speech that she spoke is the transcription that the editor of VF had to work with.

Quoting D L X (Reply 47): Absolutely untrue. Those are your words, not mine.

Never said they were but that does not change the fact that they are true. The left revels in mocking the right as being stupid. Witness comments like President Obama's "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," that he slips up and says from time to time or comments like Speaker Pelosi make in claiming that "immigration laws are un-American". If you are going to try and defend the notion that left continually tries to portray anyone on the right as stupid I can throw down the quotes to prove you wrong all day long. I haven't even begun to quote Joe Biden yet. Remember his comment about John McCain not having the "wisdom" that President Obama does?

Quoting D L X (Reply 47): DXing, that is provably false. I mean, do a quick search on this forum for "all the times the left has mocked Jindal"

So let me get this straight....this forum is the definitive answer as to whether Gov. Jindal gets mocked on the national stage? You're kidding right?

Quoting D L X (Reply 47): DXing, your non-answer shows you completely missed the point of the question. Do you honestly not see a difference between how people attack Palin versus how people attack Romney and the others?

Nope, they all get the personal attack on different levels.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): He is retiring, not quitting. BTW, do you know for a fact that he is not ill?

Sorry, what part of a "lifetime" appointment don't you understand? His friends and aquaintances have reported he is not ill, just "tired" of Washington D.C. so he quit. Evidently if Al Gore or Sen. Kerry had won he would have quit before now.

Quoting D L X (Reply 49): careful with the quotes. I did not write that.

That's ok, he represents the left, he's smarter than that right?

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): You have no proof, anymore than I do, that she did not ad lib on the fly from what was written on the paper before her. So the speech that she spoke is the transcription that the editor of VF had to work with.

Okay, I understand what you are saying now.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): The left revels in mocking the right as being stupid. Witness comments like President Obama's "And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,"

Huh? That wasn't a comment about The Right, it was a comment about Pennsylvanians as a whole, democratic and republican.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): Speaker Pelosi make in claiming that "immigration laws are un-American".

How does that deal with intelligence?

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): If you are going to try and defend the notion that left continually tries to portray anyone on the right as stupid I can throw down the quotes to prove you wrong all day long.

As I have said many times before, to the extent that people on the left talk about the general intelligence of people on the right, it is because some of your biggest mouthpieces are undereducated and have tried their best to excise the thinkers from the party. There's little denying that.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): So let me get this straight....this forum is the definitive answer as to whether Gov. Jindal gets mocked on the national stage?

If you want to extend it to the national stage, be my guest. Show me some examples of events that happened to Jindal that led to mockery from the left. I could be wrong (and this will be your first ever chance to prove me wrong!! j/k) but just site a couple links to something other than a discussion of his awkward response to the Obama address in January.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): Quoting D L X (Reply 47): DXing, your non-answer shows you completely missed the point of the question. Do you honestly not see a difference between how people attack Palin versus how people attack Romney and the others? Nope, they all get the personal attack on different levels.

Come on, man to man. You REALLY think Romney and Huckabee get the same amount of ridicule as Palin?

C'mon...it was a joke. Whether you think it is in poor taste or not probably depends on your political beliefs.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 51): Didn't she say she could see Russia from Alaska? Certainly not from Wasilla.

Actually, you can see Russia from Alaska...from at least one spot! Of course, it's nowhere near Wasilla!  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diomede_Islands

Quoting N867DA (Reply 54): C'mon...it was a joke. Whether you think it is in poor taste or not probably depends on your political beliefs.

All jokes said about Sarah Palin are in poor taste.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): A check of the video, linked in reply 23, shows that she turns and looks briefly at the lake when she says "This is a source of inspiration....".

She's looking at the people to her right. The lake is behind her. And she didn't make the brief pause that everyone does when you make an off-topic observation.

The video makes it even more clear that she's talking about the people who came being an inspiration, and thus the editor is correct on that point (which, as I said before, does not mean I think he's correct on all his suggestions).

-Mir

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): Sorry, what part of a "lifetime" appointment don't you understand?

What part of a 4 year TERM and an appointment don't you understand.

He is retiring, Sarah quit. Got it? Play your semantics game with someone else, it is getting really old.

Well gosh, she's in the glue again. Maybe she can make another speech, and this time let VF edit it ahead of time.

Palin implicated in ethics probe

Independent investigator finds evidence Alaska Governor may have violated ethics laws by accepting private donations to pay her legal debts.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ed-in-ethics-probe/article1226263/

There's something really bumptious about an ethics violation for fund raising to cover the legal costs of her ethics defenses.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 58): There's something really bumptious about an ethics violation for fund raising to cover the legal costs of her ethics defenses.

Most of the ethics violations are BS. They're cooked up by the opposition to waste her time and resources.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6): Which is why you can see what an under educated person she is.

In my opinion, it'd be pretty hard to fool an entire state that you've got what it takes to lead a state: I think she's just playing to the audience. 1. she knows her behavior garners national attention (and $$$). 2. she's continuing her image to her very very loyal base, one that polls have shown tend to be lower income and white, a populist perhaps. CNN reported that around 70% of SarahPAC's funds came from donations $200 and lower, compared to the high hundreds and low thousands that similar national figures usually get.

I personally had a lot of respect for her until she ran for vice-president. Many of her lines appeared ill-conceived and her image almost deliberately dumbed down. What I thought to be a sophisticated, inspiration leader became half-witted and consistently caught off guard, with remarks such as "I can see Russia from...", and her speech (which I watched live), an incomprehensible mess.

Whether or not she really felt it was the right thing to do in her mind, I think it was the wrong thing politically. Whether or not she felt she wasn't the best person for the job, what if she became pres/VP one day and decided it wasn't for her, is she going to be the person to quit because it just didnt feel right? How do you think their resignation affects the world's view on her abilities, let alone her image? Why did she accept the republican Vp nomination even though she was unprepared? In spite of any pressure, she is a professional, and therefore is not excused from blaming others of setting her into traps and what not, traps that a well prepared and politically astute person would be able to see (and therefore such traps are ubuiquitous)

I think these are a few of many questions people will ask if she runs.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19): It's a half-assed attempt to defame someone, a childish prank. How would YOU feel if the same thing was done to your Obama guy? Hmmm???

We can both agree there is no hard evidence on both sides that the document in question is either real or madeup. Palin has not acknowledged/denied anything.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2): Dow Ends The Day At 14,000 (by GuitrThree Jul 20 2007 in Non Aviation) Oh and note the date of the above thread! It has been where since 20 Jan. 2009?

January 20, 2009 - Bush hands the Dow to Obama and it closed at 7,949.09.

July 21, 2009 - The dow closed at 8,915.94. That's a 12% upswing since Obama took charge.

  

Quoting Greaser (Reply 60): We can both agree there is no hard evidence on both sides that the document in question is either real or madeup.

Hmm? The document is a transcript of Palin's speech. Someone at VF or elsewhere just had to watch the speech and write down what she said - it's not like it's a leaked secret document or anything.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 51): Give me a break.

Sorry, she drew larger crowds than McCain during the campaign. If she was such a horrible speaker they wouldn't have bothered to show.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 51): Nice try. If the governor of Alaska is unclear about the US acquisition of the territory, i.e. under whose administration did it take place, she has no business being in the office.

Again, please demonstrate where in the speech she says that Alaska was aquired during the Lincoln administration that Secretary Steward was a part of. Of course she mentions Lincon, the GOP does not identify itself as the party of Johnson. Please leave the puns out of the thread.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): That wasn't a comment about The Right, it was a comment about Pennsylvanians as a whole, democratic and republican.

It was as much a comment about those in Pennsylvania as the rest of the country and those who live in rural areas and lean to the right.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): How does that deal with intelligence?

So you think that immigration laws are Un-American?

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): There's little denying that.

No more so than Pelosi, Reid, Durbin, Dodd, Rangel, Waxman, Waters, and Biden.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): Show me some examples of events that happened to Jindal that led to mockery from the left.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...-jindal-mccains-vice_n_115899.html

Jindal is a master practitioner of the "aw shucks, who me?" school of politics.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoi...bobby_jindals_dance_with_the_d.php

But one of Jindal's job titles hasn't gotten much attention -- and it just might prompt a few questions if his Veep candidacy gains steam: Exorcist.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): and this will be your first ever chance to prove me wrong!! j/k

tonite. j/k

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): Come on, man to man. You REALLY think Romney and Huckabee get the same amount of ridicule as Palin?

They certainly did during the primary campaign. Not as much after since they had been defeated. But if their names come up as candidates, the flame thrower will be turned on them again. Palin distresses those on the left so much, because of the crowds she is able to draw, that for some reason, evidently born out of fear, they have to keep the flame thrower on full all the time.

Quoting Mir (Reply 56): She's looking at the people to her right. The lake is behind her. And she didn't make the brief pause that everyone does when you make an off-topic observation.

The lake is also on her right and wraps around behind her. Here is another angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpVEhGU6vGM

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 57): He is retiring, Sarah quit. Got it?

He quit a lifetime appointment, he violated every rule you accused Palin of violating. You can call it semantics all you want but you laid down the ground rules with Palin so you can't go back and change them now.

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): Again, please demonstrate where in the speech she says that Alaska was aquired during the Lincoln administration that Secretary Steward was a part of. Of course she mentions Lincon, the GOP does not identify itself as the party of Johnson. Please leave the puns out of the thread.

She states that "a member of President Abraham Lincoln's Cabinet, William Seward, he providentially saw in this great land vast riches and beauty and strategic placement on the globe an opportunity." Aside from the grammatical errors (strike "he" after Seward, change "land" to "land's" to make "opportunity" the direct object of "saw"), the sentence states that a member of Lincoln's cabinet did the seeing. However, Seward was not a member of Lincoln's cabinet when he saw Alaska's great whatever, so that statement is incorrect. Either it should read "a member of President Andrew Johnson's cabinet," which was Seward's position at the time, or "a former member of Lincoln's cabinet," which would also accurately describe Seward.

There really is a disadvantage to being a West-Coaster who works late.... I've missed so much since my last post!

So here goes:

Quoting DXing (Reply 32): By either re-ordering or completely changing words and sentence stucture he turned the speech from a populist one into a New York snob speech

The speech was not a populist speech. It might have been what she intended to achieve but she's so incapable a communicator that she failed utterly to achieve an intelligent populist tone. Ronald Reagan took a populist approach to politics. Intelligently. Palin does such a botched job of it that it warrants mockery.

Wait a minute: maybe her supporters think that the following equasion is necessary for a populist to win.... "populist" = "idiot"

Quoting DXing (Reply 34): Using east coast leftism to try and insert catchwords and delete the populist tone that she uses.

Sorry. Elite East Coasters can't help that Grammar and Spelling were invented outside of the 'Grate State of Alaaaska'.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37): Nuff said.   But it was still childish and juvenile on Vanity Fair's part.

The smily confuses me, Airframe. Do you agree with my comments that it is not possible to misrepresent someone's words when they are their very own? Or did you bother to read my comment at all?

That said, sorry if VF hurt your feelings. Was it childish, or was it just a way of expressing utter exasperation that this empty-headed, nit-wit of a pot-hole on the road to Neo-conservative Hell, tries soooo hard only to make herself look soooo foolish?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): Like VF is so popular, and creditable it has a very wide cirulation base?

You may try to mock Vanity Fair but that kinda takes you off-message in trying to defend the indefensible Sarah Palin.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): I like Palin, I like her looks, I like her freshness, and I like her position on real issues. I do defend her, but not really so much because the left digs up the weidest things, like the VF artical to attack her.

KC- Stop. Please. Apart from the looks and freshness which, I take to be agreement over my point about supporting her for her looks- thank you- what does Palin bring to the GOP table? What does she contribute to the vast, venerable, tried-and-true, historic, coherent, and interconnected philosophy, dialogue, ethos, and policy approach of the Republican Party?

Because as an outsider, as a political scientist, as a politician, and as a public policy and media analyst, I see she brings nothing of substance whatsoever. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

I'm sorry, KC and everybody else who is infatuated by her, all she is doing is stroking your own egos.

She IS pretty. She does have an air of genuine-ness to her. But it's all fake. I say this because if it were the real Sarah Palin, she would not have messed up as badly as she did during the campaign. Sarah Palin does not know who Sarah Palin is so how could anybody else possibly know?

To wit: Governor Sarah Palin is an expert on foreign affairs because she can see Russia from Alaska. I am expert on all "Sarahs" because I once had a girlfriend named "Sarah". Both statements use the same logic. Both are laughable. Only I'm not imagining myself to be President of the United States. Oh- and I don't truly think that because I had a girlfriend named "Sarah" I'm an expert on "Sarahs".

Her "You can see Russia" statement was equivalent to HR Clinton's "We were under fire in Kosovo" statement, when video showed anything but. It exposed Clinton to be an opportunistic fibber (as all politicians, of all stripes, of all countries are) and it was a serious reason why she lost the nomination. Clinton lost a considerable amount of credibility with that statement.

The difference is that Palin just doesn't know when to shut up. Sometimes it really IS better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and be KNOWN as one. Hillary shut up and became Secretary of State- and a very good one at that.

Palin just keeps digging herself into holes that just makes her look like an idiot. It's because she's too green. And like fruit that's chemically ripened too early, it's never really ripe- even if it looks like it is because the fruit was picked from the tree too early. And then it rots from the inside out, looking pretty as ever- but never, ever ripe- no matter what is done to gussy it up.

Even when you put lipstick on a pig.... it's still a pig.   

The really sad part of her Foreign Affairs gaffe is that the Governor of Alaska must be more aware of foreign affairs than any other governor. There are delicate negotiations between Alaska and Canada all the time. Fisheries. Forestry. Watershed and wildlife management. Tourism. Transportation. Energy.

Indeed, you have to drive through, fly over, or sail around Canada to visit the rest of the USA or to import foodstuffs and finished goods from the lower 48. And yet she chose to talk about Russia- a country, on another continent, with which Alaska has virtually no dealings at all because on a clear day she can see a barren Russian island from a barren Alaskan island.

Does her pressing need to get a gas pipeline built (using a Canadian company) through Canada (a foreign country) to the Lower 48 have anything to do with foreign relations? Maybe just a little.

It would have been a golden opportunity to solidify her foreign affairs credentials as a State Governor to have mentioned her frequent and ongoing dealings with Canada- a continental neighbour.

But she chose to say she's an expert at foreign relations because she can see Russia.

How absolutely, ridiculously, idiotically, pathetic.

I've other examples of self-inflicted nincompoopery that screams for mocking. But I've said enough.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): I don't like Obama, I don't like his positions on issues, and I don't like him driving my country into banruptcy. If you were an American you would understand, my Canadian friend.

KC135, I thank you for your graciousness, my American friend. However, I trust that it is not an attempt at condescension. In fact, while you may not agree with Obama and his approach it is so easy to forget that Obama inherited this entire mess from the Republicans. It is so easy to forget that for all his theatrics about suspending his campaign to "Save the American Economy" John McCain came up with nothing at all to make a difference. He even voted in support of the bills that are 'bankrupting' your country.

What would McCain, your exalted Republican leader even with Palin by his side, have done differently than Bush, which would have been more of the same and exacerbated the situation? If they didn't do that, then what would they have done differently from Obama who chose to steer a new course?

More tax cuts and more deregulation would have made matters even worse for your grandchildren. Stimulating the economy, investing in people and restoring some controls on a banking and investment system gone amok adds to the grandchildren's collective mortgage as well.

You are in a lose/lose situation. Be honest with yourselves. Who put you in this most undesireable and uncomfortable position? What is the alternative?

You may not like Obama's approach- but he's the best thing you've got right now whether you like it or not. Consider his approach as cod-liver oil: unpleasant and even unwanted but absolutely necessary to regain strength and vitality from a near-fatal illness.

This is off topic clearly, but the United States was bankrupted by the Republicans and George Bush. He took you to war that proved to be too costly. No sacrifices were made at home to support the troops. (Except the President didn't play golf.) Rationing? Munitions recycling? Extra taxes to pay for the war? Nothing. Nada. So who paid for the war?

Bonds were issued and snapped up by the Chinese. Companies were allowed to expand and merge using credit that was floated by the Chinese. Consumers were manipulated to take on unaffordable debt to finance the great deregulation experiment- all funded by the Chinese to purchase goods- imported from China.

But don't blame the Chinese. For them it's just business. Blame the regime that encouraged it.

Tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate. Yet the Republicans were prolific spenders! It was a mantra that had become a cliché. And it was clear 20 years ago that eventually you'd have to pay the piper. Consider yourselves lucky. You were just fortunate enough to have been in the middle of an election to collectively boot the f*ckers out who put you in this mess in the first place when the issue came to a head.

The hole that Bush and his self-serving friends dug for you folks down South is horribly, horribly deep. And the only way to start building out of the catastrophe you're in is to invest in the economy and the future. And if it appears to be bankrupting your country, maybe you should be looking at the cause for the need to pay the interest, AND the principle as well as continuing to live today.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." My American friends, Palin supporters or not, none of you can afford more of the same. You need some intelligent debate over the economic direction of your country. Obama arguing one side of the debate, and...... Palin on the other????!!!! Please. Tell me you can do better than that.

That is why you need to drop Palin in favour of someone with gravitas.

Now for the record, Obama may not be doing things the way you might like it to happen, is actually, finally, bringing the United States into line with how the rest of the G8 deals with problems. I have had very long and eloquent discussions with Halls120 about the American ethos and I do respect the typically American belief that the government will probably louse everything up. The United States federal government is an incredibly inefficient, bloated, structurally compromised inertia-driven beast.

But we Socialists in Upper Canuckistan stand to have the strongest economy in this recession of any of the G8 because of regulation, debt management, centralized health care, and a myriad of other initiatives. So perhaps, and I'm only saying, perhaps, there are some things that could be done better in the United States following a Canadian (North American) approach.

And I do know "haow" to spell, thank you.   

* * *

OK- now where were we?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): If she is a lost cause, why would she make a good fundraiser for Romney or Huckabee?

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I don't mean for HER to be a fundraiser for these two. I mean for YOU to fundraise for Romney or Huckabee. If you employed your powers of persuasion in the service of somebody who sees things the way you do but who has a grip on reality, fact, and history, and who has the knowledge, skills and ability to be President, you could make a real difference, my friend. I say that genuinely.

Don't be distracted by bubble-gum. Every time Palin gets into the news, she upstages the credible conservatives. She knocks the GOP off message. She is a distraction. Start building in another direction! (Crap. Did I just quote Sarah Palin?)

Look, if you keep defending Palin and all her gaffes, for all the hot air that gets spent here by us all, you are actually contributing to another Democratic win because you're distracted by a mirage and those of us who see right through her transparent dimwittedness are only happy to keep you distracted. Don't you see?

But hey- defend her if you must. Thank you. Another Democratic win is in the bank! Tell you what: If Palin is on the GOP ticket in 2014, I'll bet you $5.00 (USD), KC135TopBoom, that Obama will still be President. (I'm not much of a betting person so when I do bet, I'm as certain as I can ever be.) If she's even so much as lurking in the side-wings, she'll be enough of a distraction to throw the GOP off-message. And if there's one thing Obama gets right, it's messaging.

The inverse of my thinking is this: If she is off the national scene in 2014, the Presidency will definitely be up for grabs. But she has to be completely GONE. Vamoosed. Back to being a Hockey-mom in Wasilla Alaska, running an insurance agency or something like that. She has to be completely shut out and silenced by the RNC for that to happen. So there you have it.

Oh hang on- gambling across State lines is a felony.... darn those restrictions in the "Land of the Free".   I keep forgetting I'm not dealing with another Canadian in a different province. I'll tell you what: I'll post a $5.00 (USD) 'bond', if you'll do the same to the inverse, that if Sarah Palin is on the GOP ticket in 2014, the Democrats will retain the Presidency.... is that better wording? Are you game?

You know, I'll have to think about it but I might even be willing, upon some more reflection, to say that if Palin is nearing a formal intention to run for President in the weeks leading up to the 2012 mid-term elections, the Dems will increase their majority in both houses.

I might even go so far as to say that if she's on the ticket in 2014, the Democrats will even further increase their absolute majorities in both Houses. But I have to think about that. Ten more dollars will make me think for a while yet.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): By 2012, with Obama (King Barack 1), Pelosi (the Princess), and Reid (the village Idiot) running things, no one will ever want to admit they were democrats.

Maybe. But I doubt it. And what's with the monikers? I thought you didn't want them being used, such as Sarah "Quitter" Palin? Take the highroad. Lead by example.

Quoting DXing (Reply 43): Yes. Whenever he steps onto the national stage he gets mocked.

I just don't see that at all. His debut national speech was horrible. It was trite. It was like shooting fish in a barrel it was such fodder for mockery. Whoever wrote that speech seriously underestimated his abilities- or at least failed to convey them. I'm sure that writer's services won't be used again. (No wait: maybe Palin retained this person to write her speeches!)

But Johal is a force to be reckoned with and will soon eclipse Palin as the outsider / populist to take the race in the backstretch. "Why," you might ask? Because he can communicate. He can rub two brain cells together, pat his head AND rub his tummy at the same time.

Seriously, because Johal has a maturity, and demonstrates knowledge, skills and ability that signals to his supporters that he is in it for the long-run and is in it for something more than his own ego gratification.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 51): Vanity Fair's attempt to give her speech some credibility is a cheap shot, frankly.

My dear fellow Canucklehead... this was no attempt to give her speech credibility. How does metaphorically expressing exasperation, and exposing in no uncertain terms, second-rate, second-grade elementary school sentence structure (as delivered on the lakeshore), possibly add credibility to it? Or have I missed your wit? I apologize if the latter is the case.

Quoting DXing (Reply 52): The left revels in mocking the right as being stupid.

The "Right" is not stupid. People like Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, George H.W. Bush, contributors to the New Republic, Ron Paul, Huckabee, Romney, Johal and countless others are not "stupid". The "Right" is just weakened by stupid people like Sarah Palin. (And Rush Limbaugh, for good measure! )

Quoting D L X (Reply 55): All jokes said about Sarah Palin are in poor taste.

All jokes about Monica Lewinski are in bad taste. All jokes about Bristol Palin and her pregnancy are in bad taste.

All jokes about Sarah Palin are fair game.

Edited for Impact.

[Edited 2009-07-22 01:16:49]

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): He quit a lifetime appointment, he violated every rule you accused Palin of violating. You can call it semantics all you want but you laid down the ground rules with Palin so you can't go back and change them now.

No for the UMPTEENTH time you are wrong. Palin quit her term before it was over. I did not make up the rules, nor set standards. Sutter is retiring. Let's see he is 70 years old and eligible for Social Security. That makes him a retiree. Want more examples

Get over it. Your girl is a quitter. You Loose. Move on DX for once in your life realize that you are in the WRONG. The more you persist in this lame example the more credibility you loose.


And for you guys and gals who don't get political humor here's some more!







[Edited 2009-07-22 05:15:41]

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 64): However, Seward was not a member of Lincoln's cabinet when he saw Alaska's great whatever, so that statement is incorrect. Either it should read "a member of President Andrew Johnson's cabinet," which was Seward's position at the time, or "a former member of Lincoln's cabinet," which would also accurately describe Seward.

Sorry, but nothing she says in the speech is factually incorrect. Seward was a part of Lincolns cabinet and she does not say that he advocated the purchase of Alaska during Lincolns administration. Considering that the Russian-American telegraph line was ok'd by President Lincoln and was most likely one of the base ideas for Sewards idea to buy Alaska, how can you say with any authority he was not a member of Lincoln's cabinet when he recognized Alaska's potential? Winning the civil war, in his case keeping the British and French at bay would have taken precedent over advocating the purchase of Alaska.

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 65): Wait a minute: maybe her supporters think that the following equasion is necessary for a populist to win.... "populist" = "idiot"

Keep thinking she's an idiot. Keep promoting the idea. Everytime you do that you generate interest in her since most people would be curious as to how an idiot could get so far.

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 65): Sorry. Elite East Coasters can't help that Grammar and Spelling were invented outside of the 'Grate State of Alaaaska'.

Again, do you have any proof that the transcription VF is working with is the same as the speech on the paper in front of her?

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 65): Because he can communicate.

Yet there was a whole thread here about his supposed poor communication skills.

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): Again, do you have any proof that the transcription VF is working with is the same as the speech on the paper in front of her?

Ask and you shall receive!

Search for yorself, it is there.
http://www.fnsg.com/

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): Keep thinking she's an idiot.

A fact is a fact DX. She's an idiot.

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): curious as to how an idiot could get so far.

Like the wrestler from MN, right?

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): Considering that the Russian-American telegraph line was ok'd by President Lincoln and was most likely one of the base ideas for Sewards idea to buy Alaska, how can you say with any authority he was not a member of Lincoln's cabinet when he recognized Alaska's potential?

Let's go off topic shall we. This is conjecture on your part, and without support this thesis can not stand. You need to reference this, or otherwise it is just a theory without merit.

The fact is, the Russian treasury was short of funds. Accordingly, Baron Edouard de Stoeckl, the Russian minister to the United States, was instructed in December 1866 to negotiate the sale.
http://www.answers.com/topic/alaska-purchase

At this point Seward was not part of Lincoln's cabinet, but rather Johnson's.

Why you continually try to stand up for this dolt of a politician (Palin) is beyond belief.

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): Yet there was a whole thread here about his supposed poor communication skills.

Which thread?

The one that says that Jindal would be a much better candidate against Obama than Sarah Palin?

Or this one that seems to target "Bobby" in contrast to Barack Hussein Obama?


I admit that I have not completely read all of both threads but it appears on first glance that neither of them seem to actually address his speech, how it was delivered and what he said.

Besides. As I stated, his national speech for the GOP was trite and worthy of mockery. The speech did not convey his ability to communicate.

He didn't fail- his speechwriter did.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 69): Why you continually try to stand up for this dolt of a politician (Palin) is beyond belief.

You're not infatuated with her. But hey- it's OK. The longer people defend her, the longer she'll be on the national stage. The longer she's on the national stage, the longer the GOP will be knocked off message. The longer the GOP is knocked off message, the more certain the Democrats will increase their majority in the mid-terms AND in the 2012 Presidential.

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 65): I'll post a $5.00 (USD) 'bond', if you'll do the same to the inverse, that if Sarah Palin is on the GOP ticket in 2014, the Democrats will retain the Presidency.... is that better wording? Are you game? You know, I'll have to think about it but I might even be willing, upon some more reflection, to say that if Palin is nearing a formal intention to run for President in the weeks leading up to the 2012 mid-term elections, the Dems will increase their majority in both houses. I might even go so far as to say that if she's on the ticket in 2014, the Democrats will even further increase their absolute majorities in both Houses. But I have to think about that. Ten more dollars will make me think for a while yet.

Boy, was that a big boo boo. I meant the mid-terms in 2010 and the Presidential election in 2012.   

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): Quoting D L X (Reply 53): How does that deal with intelligence? So you think that immigration laws are Un-American?

Where the @#$% did you get that idea? That is a strange leap, even for you.

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): No more so than Pelosi, Reid, Durbin, Dodd, Rangel, Waxman, Waters, and Biden.

Sorry bub, they're all highly educated. On the other hand, Limbaugh and Hannity are both dropouts.

* NOTE, I am not saying there is anything wrong with not going to college. I think for most people it is a waste to go to college. BUT, college is an absolute requirement for making policy, and if you're going to lead a discussion on policy, you should know what you're talking about.

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): Jindal is a master practitioner of the "aw shucks, who me?" school of politics.

That's ridicule?   

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): But one of Jindal's job titles hasn't gotten much attention -- and it just might prompt a few questions if his Veep candidacy gains steam: Exorcist.

Okay, now how many articles have been written about this? How much discussion is there about this? This is hardly widespread ridicule, if it's ridicule at all.

Quoting DXing (Reply 63): Quoting D L X (Reply 53): Come on, man to man. You REALLY think Romney and Huckabee get the same amount of ridicule as Palin? They certainly did during the primary campaign.

I think you have completely mixed up the words "criticism" and "ridicule." People make fun of Palin. It's fun! People *criticize* Romney and Huckabee because they don't agree with their policies.

Quoting D L X (Reply 42): The purchase of Alaska from Russia was executed under President Andrew Johnson. Not Lincoln. Palin is wrong.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 51): Quoting DXing (Reply 43): Factually she is correct. She does not say that Alaska was purchased during Lincolns administration, only that Seward was in Lincoln's cabinet, which he was. Nice try. If the governor of Alaska is unclear about the US acquisition of the territory, i.e. under whose administration did it take place, she has no business being in the office.

"The first permanent European settlement was founded in 1784, and the Russian-American Company carried out an expanded colonization program during the early to mid-1800s. New Archangel on Kodiak Island was Alaska's first capital, but for a century under both Russia and the U.S. Sitka was the capital. The Russians never fully colonized Alaska, and the colony was never very profitable. Talks for the sale of Alaska between the US and Russia began in December 1864. William H. Seward, the U.S. Secretary of State, finalized the Alaskan purchase in 1867 for $7.2 million."

Palin never talked about the sale of Alaska in her speech, and she correctly said Stward was in Lincolin's cabinet.

Quoting D L X (Reply 42): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): I like her position on real issues. Huh? She has no issues. She tows the party line, allowing others to think for her. There are no Palin issues, except for the very liberal issue of more funding for education and developmental programs for mentally disabled children. (And then she only got that idea in response to her own child's condition.)

The rights to keep my guns, her position on abortion, taxes, defense, global warming, oil drilling, cap and tax, same sex marrages, etc. Her position on programs for mentally disabled children is a position she has always had, long before Trig was born.

Quoting Mir (Reply 45): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): It has been where since 20 Jan. 2009? Up, actually. On January 20th it was at 8279. It's now at 8853.

A movement of only 574 points in six months is a flat movement. the stovk market has't gone anywhere under BHO.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): Like VF is so popular, and creditable it has a very wide cirulation base? Amongst us PROUD EASTERN ELITISTS!

Both of you?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2): Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 1): Just another sign of how scared the left is about Palin Old line, doesn't work anymore, never did... As long as you are on your own personal vendeta against her....yes, it works, and always has. It seems to always get your goat. 1. No one has of yet told me why I am afraid of her and 2. Just mentioning Palin gets yours.

Your afraid of her running and beating BHO.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): I guess you know nothington about public speaking, do you? I I've been doing so for the last 25 years, thank you. Remember....

Your profile says your max age is 45, so you have been doing public speaking since you were 20? How much public speaking did you need to do for the failed New York Air?

Call me when you get the same number of years I have now.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting D L X (Reply 42): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 36): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 21): Quoting DXing (Reply 7): BTW can we now refer to him as Justice Quitter Souter? He's retiring. Sorry, it's a life time postion that he has only held for 19 years. He is not the oldest on the Court, he is not sick He is retiring, not quitting. BTW, do you know for a fact that he is not ill?

Souter says his health is good. So, is Justice Souter lying?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): ass-u-me?

As in making an ASS out of U and ME.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): I like Palin, I like her looks, I like her freshness, and I like her position on real issues. What positions, oh I know: I was for the bridge to nowhere, before I was against it!

Kind of like Kerry, isn't it? (oh yeah, in case you forgot, Senator Kerry was the DNC nomination for the POTUS in 2004, beaten with an ugly stick by George W. Bush by over 5 million votes.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 40): my country YOUR COUNTRY? When did it become your country. Try OUR country!

When you defend the country, than you can call it yours.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): Quoting DXing (Reply 52): Speaker Pelosi make in claiming that "immigration laws are un-American". How does that deal with intelligence?

I don't know, Pelosi doesn't have any.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): You REALLY think Romney and Huckabee get the same amount of ridicule as Palin?

Just wait until all the hate press starts coming out on both in the next 2-3 years. Palin is only the first for this election cycle.

BTW, you do know that among Alaskians Palin had a high approval rating of 93% (June 2007), a low approval of 54% (May 2009), and her latest approval rating. 14-18 June 2009 of 56%. Her disapproval ratings among Alaskians was for a low of 0% in May 2007 to a high of 41.6% in May 2009. So, Palin has always been above a 54% approval rating by all Alaskians. Even when she was running for the VPOTUS, her approval ratings, among Alaskains was 63% and 64%. Obama or Clinton didn't enjoy those numbers when they were running for Alaska's votes.

Approval ratings
As governor of Alaska, Palin's approval rating has ranged from a high of 93% in June 2007 to 54% in May 2009.

Date Approval Disapproval
May 30, 2007[144] 89% ?
June 21, 2007[145] 93% ?
November 4, 2007[146] 83% 11%
April 10, 2008[147] 73% 7%
May 17, 2008[148] 69% 9%
August 29, 2008[148] 64% 14%
October 7, 2008[149] 63% 37%
March 24-25, 2009[150] 59.8% 34.9%
May 5, 2009[150] 54% 41.6%
June 14-18, 2009[151] 56% 35%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin


Can the Governor of Michigan, or the current POTUS match those numbers?

BTW, Alaska's current unemployment rate is 8.2%, Michigan's current unemployment rate is 14.1%, and the national average unemployment rate is 9.5%, even though BHO promised in Feb., when he signed the stimulus bill into law the national unemployment rate would not exceed 8%. But, then again he also promised he wouldn't raise taxes on those making $250K or less.

So, who does a better job at running their state, or the nation?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): When you defend the country, than you can call it yours.

           
Wow. That is pretty arrogant of you.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): Your profile says your max age is 45,

Gosh, I wish I were 45 again. Guess I need to change that. Thanks for the heads up.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): Both of you?

Yeah right. Try again.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): Your afraid of her running and beating BHO.

      Nice try though.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): New York Air?

1. You don't know what I did at NY. Even if I was an F/A that would be public speaking.

2. Do you even know what my occupation is? NO

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): the failed New York Air?

This is so far off topic it is ridiculous.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): A movement of only 574 points in six months is a flat movement. the stovk market has't gone anywhere under BHO.

That is why you are not my broker.

[Edited 2009-07-22 07:35:40]

Quoting DXing (Reply 67): Sorry, but nothing she says in the speech is factually incorrect. Seward was a part of Lincolns cabinet and she does not say that he advocated the purchase of Alaska during Lincolns administration.

Let's try some other statements along the lines of Palin's, and see if you think they are accurate:

A student at Harvard University, John F. Kennedy, was assasinated in Dallas.

A pitcher with the Seattle Mariners, Randy Johnson, threw a perfect game.

A senator from Illinois, Barack Obama, signed an arms reduction treaty with Russia.

The vast majority of English speakers would find the above sentences factually incorrect, but by your defense of Palin you seem to suggest that you find them acceptable.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 73): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): When you defend the country, than you can call it yours. Wow. That is pretty arrogant of you.

Agreed.

That is a quite shameful comment, KC135TopBoom. Kind of dishonors your service.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): Just wait until all the hate press starts coming out on both in the next 2-3 years. Palin is only the first for this election cycle.

Dude, McCain was in this cycle too, and he didn't get any of the ridicule that Palin is getting, except for being foolish enough to pick Palin.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): So, who does a better job at running their state, or the nation?

It's pretty naive to think that running Michigan or the Nation is the same as running Alaska. All you need to get high approval ratings in Alaska (our most socialist state!) is to give out a big check every year, paid for by the citizens of the lower 48 buying gas.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 73): Do you even know what my occupation is? NO

I do!   And yes, it involves a lot of public speaking.

Quoting D L X (Reply 75): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 73): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): When you defend the country, than you can call it yours. Wow. That is pretty arrogant of you. Agreed. That is a quite shameful comment, KC135TopBoom. Kind of dishonors your service

Really! It reminds me of this dude:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 76): Really! It reminds me of this dude:

See, I kind of like that dude!

I want him up on that wall.   (But that dude didn't call it his country to the exclusion of me.)

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): A movement of only 574 points in six months is a flat movement. the stovk market has't gone anywhere under BHO.

I agree that it hasn't really improved. But it's also true that it hasn't gone down.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 72): BTW, you do know that among Alaskians Palin had a high approval rating of 93% (June 2007), a low approval of 54% (May 2009), and her latest approval rating. 14-18 June 2009 of 56%. Her disapproval ratings among Alaskians was for a low of 0% in May 2007 to a high of 41.6% in May 2009. So, Palin has always been above a 54% approval rating by all Alaskians. Even when she was running for the VPOTUS, her approval ratings, among Alaskains was 63% and 64%. Obama or Clinton didn't enjoy those numbers when they were running for Alaska's votes.

If your point is that Palin was more popular among Alaskans than Obama or Clinton, you're really just wasting our time, because we all knew that. If Palin were to get the GOP nomination in 2012, I would expect that she would get Alaska's votes. That doesn't mean that the country has a favorable opinion of her. Massachusetts loved John Kerry, and look how far that got him.

If you want to look at Obama's numbers among his constituents when he was a senator, they were also quite positive - 73% of Illinoisans approved of his performance in July of 2007, with just over 50% strongly approving. Not as high as Palin's, but still very good considering that Illinois is a less politically homogeneous state than Alaska.

-Mir

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 66): The more you persist in this lame example the more credibility you loose.

You set the bar, now you don't like the bar becaue it is being used in a way you don't like. Next time think about that before you set the bar.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): Ask and you shall receive!

Receive what? A link that I have to register to read? The paragraph they provide, after I searched for what I wanted, provided the same paragraph that VF has. That is the same transcription from the video that VF used. Want to try again? I don't believe anyone has an actual copy of the written speech, just the video transcript of her spoken words.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): A fact is a fact DX.

Facts seem the one thing you keep coming up in short supply of.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): Like the wrestler from MN, right?

Jesse Ventura? I don't recall anyone calling him an idiot. And I've got a wad of cash that says you wouldn't do it to his face.  

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 69): At this point Seward was not part of Lincoln's cabinet, but rather Johnson's.

I've already made that point several times. It does not change the fact that he was an intergral part of Lincolns administration. I would think that even you would be able to see that restoring the Union would take precedence over national expansion. That being said it does not preclude that he had that on his mind.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/William_Seward

As Secretary of State, he argued that the United States must move westward.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 69): Why you continually try to stand up for this dolt of a politician (Palin) is beyond belief.

Why you continually have to start these regular threads to try and belittle her to try and calm your fears of her is beyond many of us.

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 70): Which thread?

Gov. Piyush Jindal To Give GOP Reply (by Confuscius Feb 24 2009 in Non Aviation)?threadid=2048690&searchid=2049857&s=gop+response#ID2049857

The thread starts the day before the speech, ends after it.

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 70): The longer the GOP is knocked off message, the more certain the Democrats will increase their majority in the mid-terms AND in the 2012 Presidential.

Yep, good luck with that.

Quoting D L X (Reply 71): Quoting DXing (Reply 63): Quoting D L X (Reply 53): How does that deal with intelligence? So you think that immigration laws are Un-American? Where the @#$% did you get that idea? That is a strange leap, even for you.

Do you think declaring that immigration laws are Un-American displays intelligence? By the Speaker of the House?

Quoting D L X (Reply 71): Sorry bub, they're all highly educated.

         That's a good one even for you. Since when is education respresenative of intelligence? If so explain Bill Gates, Thomas Edision, Henry Ford, Garret Morgan, just to name a few.

Quoting D L X (Reply 71): That's ridicule?

Quoting D L X (Reply 71): This is hardly widespread ridicule,

Not what you asked for.

Quoting D L X (Reply 53): Show me some examples of events that happened to Jindal that led to mockery from the left. I could be wrong (and this will be your first ever chance to prove me wrong!! j/k) but just site a couple links to something other than a discussion of his awkward response to the Obama address in January.

You asked, I provided.

Quoting D L X (Reply 71): I think you have completely mixed up the words "criticism" and "ridicule."

Not in this case. Huckabee was ridiculed as the next best thing to a backwoods preacher and Romney was ridiculed mercilessly by Letterman:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/20...id-letterman-mocks-mitt-romney.htm

Now that Willard Mitt Romney has dropped out of the presidential race, no one will miss him more than David Letterman. He's been mocking Romney with wicked glee in recent weeks for his matinee-idol looks. A few highlights:

"He looks like the photo that comes with the frame … He looks like a tennis pro at a restricted country club.... He looks like the guy who tells you how to buy real estate with no money down ... He looks like the owner of the steakhouse who keeps interrupting dinner to find out how things are going … He looks like an American President in a Canadian movie ... He looks like the guy on the 'Just For Men' bottle ... Mitt looks like a guy who goes to the restroom when the check comes ... He looks like a guy who would run a seminar on condo flipping … He looks like he is the closer at a Cadillac dealership.... He looks like that guy on the golf course in the Levitra commercial."

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 74): The vast majority of English speakers would find the above sentences factually incorrect, but by your defense of Palin you seem to suggest that you find them acceptable.

Nice try but you have yet to answer the question of what is factually wrong with what she said nor have you been able to show that Seward did not think about expansion prior to Lincolns assassination.

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Do you think declaring that immigration laws are Un-American displays intelligence? By the Speaker of the House?

No, but I don't think such a declaration displays a lack of intelligence either. You have half an argument there, care to finish it?

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Since when is education respresenative of intelligence? If so explain Bill Gates, Thomas Edision, Henry Ford, Garret Morgan, just to name a few.

Interesting logic... I say higher education is a sign of intelligence, you say "well what about these people who didn't have higher education?" Higher education is not the only sign of intelligence. Your examples do not prove anything, and certainly do not prove that Palin has the mental chops for the job.

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Quoting D L X (Reply 71): That's ridicule? Quoting D L X (Reply 71): This is hardly widespread ridicule, Not what you asked for.

It is EXACTLY what I asked for. Did you forget what we were talking about? You said that you _honestly believed_ that the ridicule other Republicans got was the same as the ridicule that Palin gets. Don't waste my time with little snips here and there against Jindal and say that's equal to the constant deluge of ridicule Palin gets. It's truly laughable that you think those are the same.

Which furthers my point (which you should now concede) that Palin is ridiculed on her being unfit, while others are _criticized_ over differences of opinion on policy.

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Romney was ridiculed mercilessly by Letterman:

HAHA! Seriously? You cite Letterman as "ridicule from the left?"

Let me tell you a little about Letterman. HE IS A COMIC! He makes fun of EVERYONE, regardless of political stances. He does not favor the left or the right. He favors making people laugh.   

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 66): The more you persist in this lame example the more credibility you loose. You set the bar, now you don't like the bar becaue it is being used in a way you don't like. Next time think about that before you set the bar. Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): Ask and you shall receive! Receive what? A link that I have to register to read? The paragraph they provide, after I searched for what I wanted, provided the same paragraph that VF has. That is the same transcription from the video that VF used. Want to try again? I don't believe anyone has an actual copy of the written speech, just the video transcript of her spoken words. Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): A fact is a fact DX. Facts seem the one thing you keep coming up in short supply of. Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 68): Like the wrestler from MN, right? Jesse Ventura? I don't recall anyone calling him an idiot. And I've got a wad of cash that says you wouldn't do it to his face. Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 69): At this point Seward was not part of Lincoln's cabinet, but rather Johnson's. I've already made that point several times. It does not change the fact that he was an intergral part of Lincolns administration. I would think that even you would be able to see that restoring the Union would take precedence over national expansion. That being said it does not preclude that he had that on his mind. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/William_Seward As Secretary of State, he argued that the United States must move westward. Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 69): Why you continually try to stand up for this dolt of a politician (Palin) is beyond belief. Why you continually have to start these regular threads to try and belittle her to try and calm your fears of her is beyond many of us.

Your Avoidance system is supurb, if it were installed on planes we'd never have to worry again.

You twist and turn and squirm your way out wonderfuly.

Quoting Mir (Reply 78): Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 74): The vast majority of English speakers would find the above sentences factually incorrect, but by your defense of Palin you seem to suggest that you find them acceptable. Nice try but you have yet to answer the question of what is factually wrong with what she said nor have you been able to show that Seward did not think about expansion prior to Lincolns assassination.

Not a nice try, but facts. Yellowstone shot you down in flames, you don't like it, that's too bad.

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Why you continually have to start these regular threads to try and belittle her.....

By the way DX, unless the search function is off, I haven't started another Palin thread. I have of course jumped into them, but unless you know better (that is an understatement I'm sure).

[Edited 2009-07-22 11:57:12]

Quoting DXing (Reply 79): Nice try but you have yet to answer the question of what is factually wrong with what she said nor have you been able to show that Seward did not think about expansion prior to Lincolns assassination.

So if someone made the statement that "George W. Bush's defense secretary Robert Gates has been seeking to cut back on the number of F-22 fighters," you would have no issue with its accuracy?

-Mir

[Edited 2009-07-22 12:15:52]