Is The GOP Interested In Fixing Healthcare At All?

KSYR · Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:29 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 478):
We only have about 30,000 vets from the current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now extrapulate that program across the entire 306M population of the US and what do you have?

30,000? Try many times that.

Military healthcare (not VA) is excellent; great facilities, excellent physicians and low wait times. But, like you said, it is difficult to take a relatively successful limited program and expand it to meet the needs of 300 million people.

kc135topboom · Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:40 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 483):
Go ahead and ignore the fact that at press conferences, soft-ball questions were lobbed at Bush by people like Jeff Gannon. It happened.

Oh yeah, Bush always stack his press conferences with Bush supporters only. Which Bush supporter locked the doors so he couldn't leave at a conference in South America, making his exit after the questions look goofy. What is the name of the Iraqi Reporter, you think was a Bush supporter that threw his shoes at the President in Iraq?

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 497):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 496):
They are required to send a bill, you are not required to pay it if that is beyond your means. Non payment of medical bills cannot be reported to credit reporting agancies.

Are you advocating skipping out on medical bills?

No, but some people in the US cannot afford to pay those bills, yet still need health care.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 498):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 493):
they are all "blue states" controlled by Democrats, and most often vote Democrat.

Colorado was a red state until Obama turned it blue last year - I would bet that Republicans will try to bring it back to red ASAP.

I would also consider Maine & Vermont to be "switchable".

And even California has a Republican governor.

Colorado might, or might not return to Red, Vermont has never been Red, even though they once had a Republican Governor, their US Senator Bernie Sanders switched from "R" to "I", but really votes "D". I don't know why he just hasn't got the guts to say that. Former VT Governor Howie Dean became chairman of the DNC. The state is almost as full of nuts and fruits as California is. It has really become a suburb of New York State. Maine has the two most liberal repubs in the Senate, both nut cases, too. CA is a soild Blue state, with almost no hope of ever being Red. When thwe Governator defeated the former Dem. Gov. anyone could have won, including me. That was because Grey davis was totally inept.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 498):
A note on the Sunday morning shows - 12,000 Americans loose their health insurance each day.

What would you suggest when that rate doubles, or triples?

Or what would you suggest when premiums double (yet again) or triple?

How many of that 12,000 per day loose health insurance as a result of the current unemployment rate? Some 500,000 + Americans are loosing their jobs each month, over 3M since Obama signed the "stimilus" bill into law.

12,000 X 30 days equils some 360,000, so it is Obama's own policy that is throwing these people off the health insurance roles.

How many Americans are added to health insurance policies each day?

Now, it appears the Dems in Congress and the BHO Administration are starting to back step on health care reform. The WH appears ready to drop the "public option".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

Government run health care is no longer essential.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRqy6w7DFAB0

Princess Nancy is going to be pissed................

Yellowstone · Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:09 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 499):
And which you have ass backwards. Why would it behoove the Congress to write any new laws if the old law would just supercede it?

I'm not saying the old law supercedes the new law, but if the new law modifies the old law, the unmodified parts of the old law are still in effect. Suppose, for example, there was a law defining the rules of basketball. The section on fouls might read something like:

Quote:
(1) Commission of any of the following acts will result in two free throws being awarded to the opposing team:
(A) illegal screen (with definition)
(B) hitting the opponent (with definition)
.......
(M) running into a stationary defensive player

And so on. Now, suppose you wrote a new law that added on another item (N) to that list. The new law would not have to again specify that two free throws were to be awarded, because the existing law already says that, and the preexisting text (1) governs the lower level item (N).

Ken777 · Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:43 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 499):
So you would rather see the goverment in the drivers seat and sucking up more and more tax dollars.

I'd rather see the government in the driver's seat, with private insurance providing Gap coverage - like we see with Medicare today.

That way we can ensure that people are covered, eliminating the need for a surcharge on fees to cover the uninsured.

We can also ensure that the "Pre-Existing Conditions" crap is eliminated from this country.

Quoting DXing (Reply 499):
How much of that has to do with the recession we are in?

Maybe we should be looking at the cost of health insurance as a deterrent in hiring large quantities of Americans as he country comes out of a recession.

Traditionally employment has lagged in a recovery and the costs of health care will make it attractive to minimize new hires.

But at least the unemployed will be getting food stamps, Medicaid, etc. to keep them going.

Quoting DXing (Reply 499):
I wonder if you will list the amount of people that start receiving health insurance when the recession ends job losses become job gains?

Or employers deciding that it is no longer going to offer coverage to employees because of continually increasing costs. Those costs doubled for me between 2000 and 2004 so I'm more than aware that it is on a steep growth line.

It's folly to believe that employers will continue to blindly pay this benefit while the costs go through the roof.

dxing · Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:16 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 502):
I'm not

I give, it's become completely pointless and appears now to be a complete waste of time. As the old line goes, some men you just can't reach.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
That way we can ensure that people are covered, eliminating the need for a surcharge on fees to cover the uninsured.

The surcharge will still be there, in the form of ever higher taxes.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
We can also ensure that the "Pre-Existing Conditions" crap is eliminated from this country.

That can be eliminated without putting the government in charge. But if you are going to require that then open up insurance plans to cross State lines. That way, like my retirement plan, it's portable and if I don't like the insurance company I'm with I can drop them and go with someone offering a better deal. I should be able to add and subtract coverage just like I do on my home and auto.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
Maybe we should be looking at the cost of health insurance as a deterrent in hiring large quantities of Americans as he country comes out of a recession.

Then an extra tax charged by the government for those not offering insurance will be just as much of a deterrent. Right now they can hire without offering anything, after the government takes over, the only choice they will have it to hire or not hire.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
Traditionally employment has lagged in a recovery and the costs of health care will make it attractive to minimize new hires.

The cost of a new tax will be just as much of a disincentive. Right now they can offer a job without the benefit. The employee loses out as well since they will not have a choice to either pick one of the plans offered, or choose none at all.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
But at least the unemployed will be getting food stamps, Medicaid, etc. to keep them going.

Which is what government safety programs should be limited too, the unemployed and those who are physically or mentally impaired or disabled.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
Or employers deciding that it is no longer going to offer coverage to employees because of continually increasing costs.

Or large employers dumping employees on to the public option driving the cost up.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
Those costs doubled for me between 2000 and 2004 so I'm more than aware that it is on a steep growth line.

Given the medical history you have shared in this forum I am not the least bit surprised. My family, healthy thank goodness, has not experienced any where near that increase.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 503):
It's folly to believe that employers will continue to blindly pay this benefit while the costs go through the roof.

And it's folly to believe that millions can be dumped into a public option program without the cost spiraling out of control.

seb146 · Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:55 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 496):
They are required to send a bill, you are not required to pay it if that is beyond your means. Non payment of medical bills cannot be reported to credit reporting agancies.

It still dings your credit. It showed up on my credit until I paid it off. I got all kinds of legal notices and phone calls until I paid. I guess I am just "special."

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 496):
he should have no problem getting commerical health insurance through a potential empolyeer. Her is a link to the HIPAA law. Title I of that law applies to situations that MAY be like your son has.

So, the way the law is written, even though he has a pre-existing condition, he is not covered for a year to 18 months. Yeah.... really convenient.

BTW, SO means significant other.

max550 · Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:58 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 501):
their US Senator Bernie Sanders switched from "R" to "I", but really votes "D". I don't know why he just hasn't got the guts to say that.

Bernie Sanders was never a Republican, he's a democratic socialist but appears as an independent on the ballot. You must be thinking of the guy he replaced, Jim Jeffords, who was a R until 2001 when he switched to I and caucused with the D's.
Whether you like Bernie or not he's not lacking any guts.

Ken777 · Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 504):
Right now they can hire without offering anything, after the government takes over, the only choice they will have it to hire or not hire.

One of our insurance cost problems. Minimum wage jobs rarely include insurance, so these people get on Medicaid - thank you very much to those contributions.

Quoting DXing (Reply 504):
Which is what government safety programs should be limited too, the unemployed and those who are physically or mentally impaired or disabled.

Remembering that you are one white cell away from leukemia. Hit my wife, who was exceptionally healthy, as well as TopBoom. Hope you avoid it - I really do - buy it only takes one bad white cell out of all the trillions your system makes to have you join the group.

Quoting DXing (Reply 504):
Given the medical history you have shared in this forum I am not the least bit surprised.

Actually my first (of 2) cancers was in Jan 04 and the wife got hit with leukemia in October of 06. By that time my insurance premiums had already doubled. I would also note that the entire group of small business owners in this policy group got the same shaft as I did.

If you're on an easy ride then I would suggest that you enjoy it while you can.

dvk · Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:05 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 507):
Minimum wage jobs rarely include insurance, so these people get on Medicaid

This isn't really accurate. Most people with minimum wage jobs do not qualify for Medicaid. If they did, with a sliding scale premium based on income, it would provide coverage to a lot of people who are uninsured now. It is virtually impossible for a male to qualify for Medicaid unless he is disabled. Women can qualify for limited Medicaid benefits more easily during their reproductive years, but again generally can't get Medicaid once menopause hits unless they are disabled. Medicaid provides good coverage for children who are enrolled, but that coverage ends automatically at age 19, unless again the individual is disabled.

Switching discussions, anyone who thinks the insurance industry will take care of the preexisting conditions problems without government intervention is delusional. A for profit industry is not going to do anything that could decrease their profits voluntarily, especially one as powerful as the insurance industry. They carry preexisting conditions to extreme levels, by the way. I had a healthy female patient in her 40's who was trying to get a new health insurance policy because she was changing jobs and going to be self-employed. She had no current medical problems and no major risk factors, but in her intial visit with me some years earlier she said she had suffered from bulimia for a couple of years in her teens. She had no lasting problems and was a healthy weight. The insurance company denied her application because of the recorded history of bulimia nearly 30 years earlier, and the company rejected her appeal despite a letter from me testifying to the excellent state of her current health. This is hardly a rare situation. I repeat: anyone who thinks the insurance industry will correct this problem on their own is delusional

Ken777 · Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:31 pm

Quoting Dvk (Reply 508):
This isn't really accurate. Most people with minimum wage jobs do not qualify for Medicaid. If they did, with a sliding scale premium based on income, it would provide coverage to a lot of people who are uninsured now. It is virtually impossible for a male to qualify for Medicaid unless he is disabled. Women can qualify for limited Medicaid benefits more easily during their reproductive years, but again generally can't get Medicaid once menopause hits unless they are disabled. Medicaid provides good coverage for children who are enrolled, but that coverage ends automatically at age 19, unless again the individual is disabled.

Really makes you proud, doesn't it?

Quoting Dvk (Reply 508):
Switching discussions, anyone who thinks the insurance industry will take care of the preexisting conditions problems without government intervention is delusional.

And that is why I am a strong believer in government intervention.

Health insurance companies have been given a highly profitable environment to work in and it has continually taken advantage of this situation. Great for profits, but rather shitty for Americans.

I'm on Medicare & VA Health so those companies can't screw me anymore, but I have family and friends that will be exposed to their game for years to come.

Maybe the first step is to provide a public option for those who are refused insurance by any insurance company, or who have had an insurance company refuse to pay for a reasonable treatment. Also toss in those who have been dropped by their insurance after the program, and then add individuals whose premiums would be more than, say, 5% of their after tax income.

There are enough people who would fall into thee groups to make it viable. That would leave insurance companies with policy holders who are happy paying their premiums.

Toulouse · Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Hello all,

This thread has no reached in excess of 500 posts. For those of you interested in continuing to discuss this topic, I have created a "Part 2" thread which I invite you to continue posting on.

The link to the new thread is:
Is The GOP Interested In Fixing Healthcare Part 2 (by Toulouse Aug 17 2009 in Non Aviation)

Kind regards,
Toulouse

Is The GOP Interested In Fixing Healthcare At All?

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