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MadameConcorde
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Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:42 pm

I am not sure if this was posted.

The Moscow police seemed to be rather brutal from what we see in the pictures
It seems that it is not the first time the Russian police is being forceful with gay activists.

http://www.mosnews.com/gallery/1764.phtml

Russian police forcefully broke up an unauthorized march by homosexuals in Moscow on Saturday, news agencies reported.
Some 20 activists were detained and dragged into a waiting police bus.
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alberchico
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:47 pm

To be fair every single year the parade ends up in violence caused by the local auhorities. Mabye its time the gay pride parade was scrapped altogether and each person celebrated the day privately to avoid problems with the authorities.....
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whappeh
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:00 pm

Didn't this happen a few months ago to go with Eurovision?
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Yellowstone
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:06 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
Mabye its time the gay pride parade was scrapped altogether and each person celebrated the day privately to avoid problems with the authorities...

Kind of defeats the purpose of a pride parade, doesn't it?
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futurepilot16
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:09 pm



Quoting Whappeh (Reply 2):

Kind of defeats the purpose of a pride parade, doesn't it?

Well, not really. What's better, protesting out loud when you know your words mean nothing to the cops in riot gear who can hurt you REALLY bad. Or getting together for their "parade" in private? I don't see the point in them making all this noise. I just don't get it. If they're gay and proud of it, why do they need to let everybody else know about it. Not everyone condones their lifestyle or wants to hear about it. I know eventually times will change there, but for now they should keep quiet to avoid the headaches, bruises, broken legs etc.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:40 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
Well, not really. What's better, protesting out loud when you know your words mean nothing to the cops in riot gear who can hurt you REALLY bad. Or getting together for their "parade" in private? I don't see the point in them making all this noise. I just don't get it. If they're gay and proud of it, why do they need to let everybody else know about it. Not everyone condones their lifestyle or wants to hear about it. I know eventually times will change there, but for now they should keep quiet to avoid the headaches, bruises, broken legs etc.

You mean like the Freedom Riders should have stayed quiet to avoid the headaches, beatings, firebombings, etc.? The bravery required to claim your rights as a human being in the face of violence and injustice is to be applauded.
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TheCol
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:46 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
unauthorized



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
violence caused by the local auhorities.

Yeah, because Russia is such a great democratic state. They've sure come a long way in 18 years.  Yeah sure
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mt99
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:47 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
What's better, protesting out loud when you know your words mean nothing to the cops in riot gear who can hurt you REALLY bad.

Yes, Nothing good came out of Stonewall Riots for gay society.  Yeah sure
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ADXMatt
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:13 am

Another reason we are blessed with the freedoms we have in our country.
 
Elite
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:56 am



Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 8):
Another reason we are blessed with the freedoms we have in our country.

There have been violence against people in protests and pride parades in every country... the United States of America are not exempt, although obviously the situation in the USA is better.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting Alberchico (Reply 1):
To be fair every single year the parade ends up in violence caused by the local auhorities. Mabye its time the gay pride parade was scrapped altogether and each person celebrated the day privately to avoid problems with the authorities.....

How about the Authorities stop committing violence? The participants aren't hurting anyone.

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 8):
Another reason we are blessed with the freedoms we have in our country.

We are not "blessed." We had to fight, and are still fighting, tooth and nail against the forces of Ignorance who believe that my love for my partner is somehow less valid than someone else's just because my partner is another man.
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Mir
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:38 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
Well, not really. What's better, protesting out loud when you know your words mean nothing to the cops in riot gear who can hurt you REALLY bad. Or getting together for their "parade" in private? I don't see the point in them making all this noise. I just don't get it. If they're gay and proud of it, why do they need to let everybody else know about it. Not everyone condones their lifestyle or wants to hear about it. I know eventually times will change there, but for now they should keep quiet to avoid the headaches, bruises, broken legs etc.

By that logic, MLK and others like him should have just kept their mouths shut.

-Mir
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futurepilot16
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:37 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 5):
You mean like the Freedom Riders should have stayed quiet to avoid the headaches, beatings, firebombings, etc.? The bravery required to claim your rights as a human being in the face of violence and injustice is to be applauded.



Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
By that logic, MLK and others like him should have just kept their mouths shut.

-Mir

You all are taking this a completely different way. In no way shape or form do I think that what MLK, or the freedom riders advocated for, is in ANY way at all related to what the gays in moscow is advocating for. I find it disrespectful to compare to civil rights to gay rights at all. Some might gays don't have much civil rights, but they do. Btw, I never said anything about them keeping their mouths shut, by all means they have the right to protest they should do it. My logic stems from the fact that there's about 80 people protesting, by the time the cops get there, their protesting means nothing to anyone because they don't make much noise. So all their pain is for nothing. Why not spend time to organize a decent size protest rather than go out there every week and get arrested.
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7324ever
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:45 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
You all are taking this a completely different way. In no way shape or form do I think that what MLK, or the freedom riders advocated for, is in ANY way at all related to what the gays in moscow is advocating for. I find it disrespectful to compare to civil rights to gay rights at all. Some might gays don't have much civil rights, but they do. Btw, I never said anything about them keeping their mouths shut, by all means they have the right to protest they should do it. My logic stems from the fact that there's about 80 people protesting, by the time the cops get there, their protesting means nothing to anyone because they don't make much noise. So all their pain is for nothing. Why not spend time to organize a decent size protest rather than go out there every week and get arrested.

So basically the only people who don't deserve rights in this world are gays? Really, black people were more violent in there protests and you say they can protest BUT gays who are having a peaceful parade don't get to and the cops can beat them up. Do you see the big  redflag  in your logic?!
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Jetsgo
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:53 am

Any guy dressing in a brides outfit in a public parade that has a history of trouble, and in Russia of all places, is just asking for trouble. I have little sympathy for that.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:06 am



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 13):
Really, black people were more violent in there protests and you say they can protest BUT gays who are having a peaceful parade don't get to and the cops can beat them up.

No, most civil rights protests in the south were peaceful. The violence started after the cops brought their attack dogs and nightsticks, and turned on the firehoses. But since you're from serbia, I say you need to learn a little bit more about american history before you say anything about civil rights protests.
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stasisLAX
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:14 am

Social conformity is a necessity in a nation like Russia - otherwise, the vast number of ethnic groups that were forced into the fold of the old Soviet Union could go spinning off on their own..... or Moscow fears that result.


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7324ever
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:10 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 15):
No, most civil rights protests in the south were peaceful. The violence started after the cops brought their attack dogs and nightsticks, and turned on the firehoses. But since you're from serbia, I say you need to learn a little bit more about american history before you say anything about civil rights protests.

Haha no I live in the states I know about civil rights. People were violent, the gay PARADE was not. Just because you paid attention from one of your high school classes about the civil rights dosen't mean you can get fissy. I know how it works, These people were not hurting anything and who are you to say that they get no rights and the cops can do what they want. Any ways who are YOU to say when you don't know anything on Russian civil rights...

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futurepilot16
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:55 am



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 17):
Haha no I live in the states I know about civil rights. People were violent, the gay PARADE was not. Just because you paid attention from one of your high school classes about the civil rights dosen't mean you can get fissy. I know how it works, These people were not hurting anything and who are you to say that they get no rights and the cops can do what they want. Any ways who are YOU to say when you don't know anything on Russian civil rights...

Doesn't matter where you live. Fact is blacks didn't start the violence (most of the time) when they protested. But at least they had the common sense to organize huge rallies rather than get together with a couple of people you met in a bar, get drunk, put on wedding dresses and run around in the middle of the street like crazy people. That, my friend, is not "advocating" for civil rights.
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DocLightning
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:01 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):

You all are taking this a completely different way. In no way shape or form do I think that what MLK, or the freedom riders advocated for, is in ANY way at all related to what the gays in moscow is advocating for. I find it disrespectful to compare to civil rights to gay rights at all. Some might gays don't have much civil rights, but they do.

I can be:
1) Fired from my job
2) Denied housing
3) Denied adoption rights
4) Denied the right to marry

all because I am gay. I made no choice to be this way, but I am an adult and I pay a lot of taxes and I expect to be afforded the same rights. They in no way detract from yours.

So it is a very fair and very valid comparison. Gay people happen, just like any other minority group happens. And we have a right to happen.
-Doc Lightning-

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7324ever
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:02 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
Doesn't matter where you live. Fact is blacks didn't start the violence (most of the time) when they protested. But at least they had the common sense to organize huge rallies rather than get together with a couple of people you met in a bar, get drunk, put on wedding dresses and run around in the middle of the street like crazy people. That, my friend, is not "advocating" for civil rights.

So your saying all gay guys, cross dressers, and lesbians that choose to have a peaceful protest in the city deserve to get beat up by cops but African Americans that burn cars and break shop windows are aloud to do what they want.

That, my friend, is what we call an "OXYMORON" and seeing as how your not billy maze then I guess that leave the other half. They get rights, the cops beat them up for no reason.

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Mir
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:22 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 15):
No, most civil rights protests in the south were peaceful.

And this parade in Russia wasn't?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
But at least they had the common sense to organize huge rallies rather than get together with a couple of people you met in a bar, get drunk, put on wedding dresses and run around in the middle of the street like crazy people.

You seem to know more about this parade than the article the OP linked to says. Do you have a source for that stuff?

-Mir
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mt99
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:27 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 18):
people you met in a bar, get drunk, put on wedding dresses and run around in the middle of the street like crazy people

How is that different from Mardi Gras? If running down the street acting crazy is reason enough to condone police viopence the the Super Bowl celebrations should also be stppoed
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futurepilot16
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:17 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 20):
So your saying all gay guys, cross dressers, and lesbians that choose to have a peaceful protest in the city deserve to get beat up by cops but African Americans that burn cars and break shop windows are aloud to do what they want.

People seem to think that gays face this universal fight where they're denied everything in the world, which is completely not true. Blacks are able to become something in this country today because of all those "violent protests" where they burnt cars and broke shop windows. But yet you seem to think that it meant nothing to this country at all right, just violence I suppose

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
I can be:
1) Fired from my job
2) Denied housing
3) Denied adoption rights
4) Denied the right to marry

Being fired from your job for being gay, or denied adoption rights, or any of those things could happen to anyone. A black person could be fired for being black, obviously they won't say that's the reason they fired you. No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay, because they would be putting a target on their back for lawsuits. Any one could be denied housing options, does that mean we should change the law when you never know where there is descrimination? You seem to think that all these issues don't happen to a lot of people. The only thing gays are troubled with right now is not being able to marry in all states, which will be completely gone in the U.S. within the next five years. A family could be denied adoption rights becaue they seem unfit, does that mean gays take it personally if they're denied? Spare me your so called descrimination because a lot of people have been through far worst.
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bananaboy
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:41 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
A family could be denied adoption rights becaue they seem unfit, does that mean gays take it personally if they're denied?

Is that not discriminatory then if two couples with similar financial, educational and social backgrouds are trying to adopt, and one couple is turned down because of their sexuality?

Hardly a level playing field, is it?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
What's better, protesting out loud when you know your words mean nothing to the cops in riot gear who can hurt you REALLY bad. Or getting together for their "parade" in private? I don't see the point in them making all this noise. I just don't get it.

What utter rubbish. What do you think would be accomplished by protesting in private? A protest generally involves taking a public stand against a perceived wrong. Staying out of the limelight is not going to get anything accomplished. There may well be other, smarter, and possibly more effective ways for them to succeed with their agenda, but I admire their bravery to stand up publicly for what they believe.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
How about the Authorities stop committing violence? The participants aren't hurting anyone.

 checkmark 

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
Spare me your so called descrimination because a lot of people have been through far worst.

Maybe, but that still doesn't a) condone the fact that it occurs, or b) mean that society should be working to eliminate it where possible.


Mark
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7324ever
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):

People seem to think that gays face this universal fight where they're denied everything in the world, which is completely not true. Blacks are able to become something in this country today because of all those "violent protests" where they burnt cars and broke shop windows. But yet you seem to think that it meant nothing to this country at all right, just violence I suppose

Wrong, Now your contradicting your self first you say that they gays were having a drunken violent protest and that there not getting anywhere doing this and deserve to get arrested and beat up by the cops, now your saying the only way to get rights and to be heard is to have violent protests. So your digging your self into your own grave get out while you still can.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):

Being fired from your job for being gay, or denied adoption rights, or any of those things could happen to anyone. A black person could be fired for being black, obviously they won't say that's the reason they fired you. No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay, because they would be putting a target on their back for lawsuits. Any one could be denied housing options, does that mean we should change the law when you never know where there is descrimination? You seem to think that all these issues don't happen to a lot of people. The only thing gays are troubled with right now is not being able to marry in all states, which will be completely gone in the U.S. within the next five years. A family could be denied adoption rights becaue they seem unfit, does that mean gays take it personally if they're denied? Spare me your so called descrimination because a lot of people have been through far worst.

SO you say all gays are treated equally and blacks have it FAR worst?! Were are your sources that say this. Blacks can get married in all 50 states gays can get married in 3. What do you have that says blacks are denied housing on a daily basis but all gay couples get houses. Stop talking in terms of high school politics and learn what your talking about.
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GDB
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:01 pm

This is to a degree, all linked in with a 'Pride' campaign of a different kind.
The Putin inspired Nationalism, complete with that most sinister of arms, the indoctrinated, deeply prejudiced, robotic 'Putin Youth'.

This state violence occupies the same space as all those (including another recently) investigative journalists who will keep on getting murdered.
Usually when they have the party pooping habit of uncovering serious human rights abuses, often involving-as in the latest case, Moscow's pet Chechen thugs.

Back to this violence against the demo in question, kind of shows up a rather brittle, fragile ego kind of nationalism.
 
avek00
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:11 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay, because they would be putting a target on their back for lawsuits.

In many US states, a person fired on the basis of sexual orientation would have zero recourse to the courts, and the employer would summarily win any lawsuit.
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DocLightning
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:19 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):

Being fired from your job for being gay, or denied adoption rights, or any of those things could happen to anyone.

No, they cannot just fire someone for being black. They have to show cause that the person was not performing up to par. They can simply terminate me for being gay. Well, for me they cannot because I am an independent contractor and that is part of my contract and my employer's policies.

But that does not give me an automatic legal protection.

I love my boyfriend with all my heart and soul. I love him in a way that makes my heart hurt. I want to marry him and to make him part of my family, but we live in California, and we can't do that.

I can go to an expensive lawyer and get some mimicry of a marriage, but I can't marry him. And I can't keep my job. And I can get thrown out of my housing. Just for existing. And that's just wrong.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:00 pm

The thing I find rather interesting about these "gay pride" parades is that they basically intentionally reiteratate all those stereotypes gays spend the remaining 364 days fighting against.
Maybe someone with more insight will explain this to me, but purely from a cost/benefit perspective this seems like a totally counterprodictive thing to do.
If the aim is to be accepted by the majority, endless time and money has been spent on legislation allowing marriage, fighting claims about excessive promiscuity of gays then go out on the street dressed like freaks, having almost an orgy on the street is giving the opposition a welcome ammo and it should be of a no surprise if that ammo is being used.
 
mt99
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:53 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 29):
The thing I find rather interesting about these "gay pride" parades is that they basically intentionally reiteratate all those stereotypes gays spend the remaining 364 days fighting against

Its one day. Just like Christmas, the Super Bowl and Mardi Gras. One day. One day on which a group of people just let loose and act a bit crazy. What's wrong with that?

You also fail to see the courage it takes to participate. If it wasn't for those people who march he gay community would still be hidden. The first gay prides parades 40 years ago were only a few dozen people. Look at them now. They do serve a purpose. The cost/benefit you ask for can be seen clearly.

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I am a gay man, who attend gay pride, but i do not have the balls to get dance down the street in drag, like some other do. I applaud them and thank them for bringing MY issues to the forefront.

Ill steal a line from Rent to describe the courage some of the participants: "They are more men than most you will ever be, and more women than most you will ever get"  

[Edited 2009-07-27 17:56:20]
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racko
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:51 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay

Did they abolish "Don't ask, don't tell" while I wasn't looking?
 
Sasha
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:55 am

Guys you're all missing the point...

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Some 20 activists were detained and dragged into a waiting police bus.

Guess what for...  Smile I bet for a closed-doors police parade.
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Doona
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:00 am



Quoting SashA (Reply 32):
Guess what for... Smile I bet for a closed-doors police parade.

What?

Cheers
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:37 am



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 29):

One of the best, if not THE best post written in this entire thread. Thank you.

Aeroflot777
 
fridgmus
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:04 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):


How about the Authorities stop committing violence? The participants aren't hurting anyone.

No offense to the Russian people, but the Russian Police are not known for their sensitivity and won't be changing their attitudes anytime soon, unfortunately.
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ManuCH
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:59 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
I can be:
1) Fired from my job
2) Denied housing

Just to back up your statement - me and my boyfriend were denied an apartment because we are gay. The landlord was very clear: he didn't want us because he was afraid that other potential tenants wouldn't want to live next to us if they knew we were gay.

He's a complete idiot, and I also told him straight into his face - but that's the way it happened. I even asked a lawyer: he said that I might obtain $200 damage compensation after a 5 year lawsuit costing me tens of thousands of $. Not worth it.

My boyfriend was denied his job as a primary school teacher because the guy taking the decision stated "for sure I'm not employing any gays here" in front of the municipal assembly.

Luckily, we found an even better apartment elsewhere where they didn't care about our sexual orientation, and he also found an even better job (still as a primary school teacher but in a more "interesting" school) where they also don't care about sexual orientation.

Gay prides will continue to exist until these discriminating episodes will exist. I'm all for not having gay prides anymore, shouldn't there be any need for them anymore.

Regarding this particular issue, Russia wasn't exactly a democratic state last time I checked, so the reaction of Moscow police doesn't surprise me. But still, they should keep it up and continue protesting. I think it's worth it.
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:05 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
does that mean gays take it personally if they're denied?

Um there are specific laws prohibiting gay adoption.....al little more stringent than parents being turned down becuase they are unfit..

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
Being fired from your job for being gay, or denied adoption rights, or any of those things could happen to anyone. A black person could be fired for being black, obviously they won't say that's the reason they fired you

Yes but if it comes out they can be sued if they are denied because of race....Not if they are gay


Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay, because they would be putting a target on their back for lawsuits.

Again Cracker Barrel did just this to a lesbian and was sued and it was dismissed..

This is about fighting for human rights and not just a bunch of queers prancing around...
We in Canada need to remember that we are very fortunate simply because of where we were born...There are many that have to fight for their survival....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:52 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):

Really, you just need to quit while you're ahead because you've made it clear on a few occasions that you don't have the first clue as to what you're talking about.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
A black person could be fired for being black, obviously they won't say that's the reason they fired you. No one in this country would openly tell you that you're fired because you're gay, because they would be putting a target on their back for lawsuits

WRONG! In many states there are no such laws prohibiting hiring discrimination based on sexuality. While I'd like to HOPE that most employers would be classy enough to give another reason, in many parts of the US an employer COULD tell a prospective employee that he/she wasn't hired because they're gay and there would be no legal recourse. Not to say there aren't other ways to react (public exposure leading to boycotts and bad press) but those have no legal standing.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
A family could be denied adoption rights becaue they seem unfit, does that mean gays take it personally if they're denied?

Not quite. It's one thing to be declared unfit after the interviews and background checks. It's another to be told that you can't even try. Again, in many states it's spelled out in black and white that if you are gay, you are not even allowed to consider adoption in that state.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):
Any one could be denied housing options, does that mean we should change the law when you never know where there is descrimination? You seem to think that all these issues don't happen to a lot of people

Again, there's nothing in federal LAW that says that a landlord CANNOT discriminate based on sexuality. Some states do have their own laws that protect against that form of discrimination but not all.

No one is saying that gays are special or that various levels of discrimination don't still happen to other minorities, especially visible minorities, but the fact is those groups have legal recourse if a case can be proven. In many of these situations, gays and lesbians have no ability to sue for discrimination.

Furthermore, gays and lesbians have to deal with other forms of social rejection that many (especially visible) minorities will never have to deal with. Show me a case of a child born to black parents thrown out of the house because he/she was born albino. Not saying it hasn't happened, but the occasions are so rare that it's statistically insignificant. However, gay children are thrown out and ostracized by their families every day because of something they have no control over.

That is what the purpose of putting gay rights out there. All we're asking for is legal recognition. I'm not saying that discrimination will disappear overnight. One only has to look to the civil rights movement to realize that just because you get your protections down on paper doesn't mean you can change the beliefs of people. But gays deserve, as much as any other minority group, the same legal benefits. You don't have to agree since you haven't and most likely never will have deal with discrimination based on your sexuality but I would appreciate it if you would stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

Thank you.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:47 pm



Quoting LH423 (Reply 38):

Sorry but I don't get your point. I mean, if gays care about discrimination so much, then why do they feel the need to put it out there SO MUCH, which further aggravates stereotypes of gays. I mean you don't see me going out there with a t-shirt admitting that i'm straight. If your sexuality is gay, I don't see the need to put out it out there by wearing dresses, talking like females (if they're a guy in both cases) and acting in the way they do. As a matter of fact, I don't see the need to announce anyone's sexuality at all. But, this is america, where there is freedom of expression, so they are welcome to do that. But yet when they get discriminated against, they cry about it.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
7324ever
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 10:46 pm

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:51 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39):
Sorry but I don't get your point. I mean, if gays care about discrimination so much, then why do they feel the need to put it out there SO MUCH, which further aggravates stereotypes of gays. I mean you don't see me going out there with a t-shirt admitting that i'm straight. If your sexuality is gay, I don't see the need to put out it out there by wearing dresses, talking like females (if they're a guy in both cases) and acting in the way they do. As a matter of fact, I don't see the need to announce anyone's sexuality at all. But, this is america, where there is freedom of expression, so they are welcome to do that. But yet when they get discriminated against, they cry about it.



Dude they put it out there BECAUSE IT IS THERE!

Ignoring it won't give them equal rights. How does that Advocate gay stereo types?
Not all gays dress up like women and talk like girls. What you do in your free time I won't judge, but the stereo type that all gays are trannys was created by people like you who think gays are the devil. Your a disgusting person to think they are less than straight people just because they live life different. Every body who gets discriminated against will cry about it. The blacks, Hispanics, gays, Canadians, Americans, EVERY BODY DOES!
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:52 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 17):
on Russian civil rights...

What civil rights? Last time I checked, Russia does a good job at making sure nobody strays from Putin's doctrine.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
7324ever
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 10:46 pm

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:58 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 41):

What civil rights? Last time I checked, Russia does a good job at making sure nobody strays from Putin's doctrine.

From a very good book "Animal Farm"

"All animals are equal. Just some are more equal than others." *Animals being people*

Seeing as how they act against gays. I guess your right.  Yeah sure
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:42 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 42):
*Animals being people*

Thank you, Captain Obvious.  Big grin
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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Aeroflot777
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:44 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 41):
What civil rights? Last time I checked, Russia does a good job at making sure nobody strays from Putin's doctrine.



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 42):

Seeing as how they act against gays. I guess your right.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 36):
Russia wasn't exactly a democratic state last time I checked

Oh so freakin naive. It's ok though... you guys are all experts on what happens here in Russia. It's amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about, or better yet, have never set foot on Russian soil, yet they are so well educated via "popular" news agents on how we Russians live our lives in our own country. BRAVO to all of you. Definitely an accomplishment!

Aeroflot777
 
steman
Posts: 1671
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:55 pm

Sometimes I think that Gay Prides are not necessary anymore in many Countries.
Civil rights and gay rights are pretty much a given thing in many Countries of Western Europe and North America.
True, there is still much to do but let´s admit it, for most of us it´s more of a big celebration than a fight for rights.
Gay Prides are an occasion of enjoying ourselves as a community and offer the city a big party.

But when I read certain comments of some user here, probably young and with a good education and certainly coming from a free and civilized Country like the US, well, I think to myself: we need to march, we need to fight for our right everywhere and everytime. We have to eradicate prejudice and misconceptions everywhere, not only in Moscow.

So, in two weeks I will be participating in the parade in Mannheim, Germany for the Region´s Gay Pride, or, as we call it here, Christopher Street Day (Christopher Street, New York, USA).

Ciao

Stefano
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 35):

No offense to the Russian people, but the Russian Police are not known for their sensitivity and won't be changing their attitudes anytime soon, unfortunately.

That's how they were here. They aren't anymore.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39):
Sorry but I don't get your point. I mean, if gays care about discrimination so much, then why do they feel the need to put it out there SO MUCH, which further aggravates stereotypes of gays. I mean you don't see me going out there with a t-shirt admitting that i'm straight. If your sexuality is gay, I don't see the need to put out it out there by wearing dresses, talking like females (if they're a guy in both cases) and acting in the way they do. As a matter of fact, I don't see the need to announce anyone's sexuality at all. But, this is america, where there is freedom of expression, so they are welcome to do that. But yet when they get discriminated against, they cry about it.

I, for one, long for a day when there is no more need for the Human Rights Campaign and Lambda Legal. I long for a day when "gay" is merely viewed as a fact of life and that people like me can simply be allowed to exist and be the way we are. I want to enjoy the same life and rights that any other man does. I want to become a husband and a father and raise kids. I want to make my mark on the world in my own little way and know that when I walk off this mortal coil, I have done something to make my world better. I want to pay my taxes, serve others, and enjoy my life.

But I find myself constantly butting up against realities. I can't talk about my partner openly at work for fears that parents will make ignorant decisions based only on my sexuality. I can't marry the man I love. Adoption is a hit-or-miss issue.

I just want what you have. It won't hurt you to support me getting it. And on the day that gays are simply accepted as a fact of life, you won't notice us anymore.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
7324ever
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 10:46 pm

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:08 pm



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 44):

Oh so freakin naive. It's ok though... you guys are all experts on what happens here in Russia. It's amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about, or better yet, have never set foot on Russian soil, yet they are so well educated via "popular" news agents on how we Russians live our lives in our own country. BRAVO to all of you. Definitely an accomplishment!

Aeroflot777

I am. I do not know just about anything when it comes to Russian internal affairs. Im sorry for that and I should learn about it before I demolish it. And I have been to Moscow and St Petersburg. Beautiful cities.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 43):

Thank you, Captain Obvious. Big grin

You are most certanly welcome! Just helping out the edjamcatly challenged!  bigthumbsup 
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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ManuCH
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:10 pm



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 44):
Oh so freakin naive. It's ok though... you guys are all experts on what happens here in Russia.

I apologize, I didn't mean to be offensive. You're right, most common preconceptions about Russia come from the media (and mind you, even the most reputable ones). I would be glad to learn more about it without the media twist. And I still hope protesters will be allowed to express their opinion out loud without repression someday.

Now, this was about a parade. But how's a homosexual's everyday life in Russia? Are gays allowed to be openly together (as in "sharing an apartment" and admitting openly that they are together), or is it frowned upon, and you're better off hiding it?
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
GDB
Posts: 14251
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: Moscow Police Break Up Gay Pride Parade

Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:24 pm



Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 44):
Oh so freakin naive. It's ok though... you guys are all experts on what happens here in Russia. It's amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about, or better yet, have never set foot on Russian soil, yet they are so well educated via "popular" news agents on how we Russians live our lives in our own country. BRAVO to all of you. Definitely an accomplishment!

Maybe, but what happened, what keeps on happening, the statements of some Russian politicians too, is pretty unambiguous.

I'd be cautious about singling too much mud at Western news either, sure many are silly, pandering, plenty of us on here attack them frequently.
But, we can choose another source, we can choose a multitude of sources.
Putin changed that state of affairs in Russia didn't he?
Maybe not ALL are effectively government mouthpieces, but most major ones are.
And don't be an investigative journalist working for one that is independent still, judging by the body count.

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