greggarious
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Question On Police Jurisdiction

Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:51 pm

I got pulled over by my village police department for making an illegal U-turn yesterday afternoon, one stoplight away from the edge of the village, before getting on a county road to go meet up with a friend. Apparently, a policeman noticed and pulled me over, but not before I was already a half mile past the edge of the village. And he didn't trail me for that half mile, either... instead he barreled out of there at 65+ to chase me down (speed limit on the county road is 40 MPH).

He cited me for making the turn (a no U-turn sign had been posted at the intersection recently, which I hadn't seen before, so bummer) but as I drove away with the ticket I got to thinking that the cop had stepped outside his jurisdiction to pull me over. I called the police station later on and verified that the village police department's jurisdiction ends at a park on the edge of the town, about a half mile away from where I got pulled over. The last thing the officer said before letting me go was that the traffic court is usually "pretty lenient" if I decided to contest it. I'm planning on contesting the ticket before I head back up to school, but am I right on the issue of the officer's jurisdiction? Any help is appreciated.
 
max550
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:59 pm

When the infraction occurred you were within his jurisdiction, right? If you were then he definitely had jurisdiction.
If you are in NY, any officer in the state can cite or arrest you, as long as he has reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed. In some other states the jurisdiction will extend throughout the county or to a certain distance outside of their city or town.
I believe that in all states an officer can pull you over as long as they are in hot pursuit, meaning that they saw you commit an infraction within their jurisdiction and they followed you out.
It varies from place to place but as long as you were within his jurisdiction at the time I don't think you'll be getting out of it that way.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:52 pm

Depends on the state. A police officer here with one of the smaller cities told me that he had police powers anywhere in the county.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
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jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:03 am



Quoting Max550 (Reply 1):
If you are in NY, any officer in the state can cite or arrest you, as long as he has reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed. In some other states the jurisdiction will extend throughout the county or to a certain distance outside of their city or town.

And in many places it extends over state lines as well if engaged in hot pursuit. Connecticut has an agreement with New York State where an officer of a town bordering New York can pursue into New York and issue a ticket for an offence that occurred in Connecticut. I believe this also applies to the other bordering states, Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

If the offense involves an arrest, then the pursuing officer can detain and the local police jurisdiction makes the arrest based on the pursuing officers complaint, and goes through the extradition process to return the arrested individual to Connecticut.

JetStar
 
Lufthansa411
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:54 am

RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:56 am



Quoting Max550 (Reply 1):
If you were then he definitely had jurisdiction.



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 3):
Connecticut has an agreement with New York State where an officer of a town bordering New York can pursue into New York and issue a ticket for an offence that occurred in Connecticut.

Sort-of. At least in NY, before a police officer leaves his main jurisdiction, he has to radio and notify the jurisdiction he is entering, even if they have an agreement already in place. If they do not radio ahead, they are technically not allowed to issue a ticket, even if the violation occurred in NY.

I remember a thread a while back about a man and woman who went through a red light to see a dying relative in hospital. The ticket was later dropped when it was discovered (among other things) that the hospital where the couple parked was not in the officers jurisdiction, and he did not radio the next town over to say he was entering their jurisdiction.
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:46 am

I always thought, in California at least, a police officer has legal authority anywhere in the state.
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falstaff
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:44 pm



Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 2):
A police officer here with one of the smaller cities told me that he had police powers anywhere in the county.

I don't know about that. I thought only federal agencies could do that. Also some, maybe all, railroad police have national arrest powers due to railroads being involved in interstate commerce.

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 4):
before a police officer leaves his main jurisdiction, he has to radio and notify the jurisdiction he is entering, even if they have an agreement already in place.

I know that is how it works in Michigan.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
I always thought, in California at least, a police officer has legal authority anywhere in the state.

I know Michigan police officers do if the crime is a 90 day misdemeanor or higher.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
greggarious
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Posts: 239
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:33 pm



Quoting Max550 (Reply 1):
NY,



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
California



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 6):
Michigan



Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 2):
Depends on the state.

So clearly, it's a question of which state you're in (in my case, it's Florida). Does anyone know of any resources for looking up state traffic laws and state positions on jusrisdiction? If I'm contesting a ticket in traffic court, I'd opt for pro se representation.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:02 pm



Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 4):
Sort-of. At least in NY, before a police officer leaves his main jurisdiction, he has to radio and notify the jurisdiction he is entering, even if they have an agreement already in place. If they do not radio ahead, they are technically not allowed to issue a ticket, even if the violation occurred in NY.

I agree and should have mentioned that, but it is obvious that an office in pursuit crossing state or even town lines has to notify their dispatcher that they are leaving their jurisdiction. In my area of Southwestern Connecticut where there are many towns, there is a county hotline that connects many of the police departments and the state police so one department can contact another when needed.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 6):
Also some, maybe all, railroad police have national arrest powers due to railroads being involved in interstate commerce.

Depends on the state, this is a article about the Union Pacific Railroad Police.

Union Pacific maintains a functioning police department staffed with officers given the title of Special Agent with jurisdiction over crimes against the railroad. Like most railroad police, its primary jurisdiction is unconventional, consisting of 54,116 miles (87,091 kilometers) of track in 23 western U.S. states. Railroad police are certified state law enforcement officers and have investigative and typically have arrest powers both on and off railroad property if authorized by the state they are operating within. They also have interstate authority pursuant to federal law (Title 49, United States Code, Section 28101. Under Public Law 110-53 SEC. 1526. (RAILROAD SECURITY ENHANCEMENTS), Railroad police powers' have been expanded to include railroads other than the officer's employing agency. All of the states in Union Pacific's 23 state system authorize full police authority, except for Minnesota and Wyoming, which do not grant authority to railroad police at all.

Special Agents typically investigate major incidents such as derailments, sabotage, grade crossing accidents and hazardous material accidents and minor issues such as trespassing on the railroad right of way, vandalism/graffiti, and theft of company property or customer product. In accordance with their duties, Special Agents have the ability to access the FBI's NCIC database to run suspects and vehicles for wants and warrants, as well as criminal history checks.

JetStar
 
max550
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:51 pm



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 7):
So clearly, it's a question of which state you're in (in my case, it's Florida). Does anyone know of any resources for looking up state traffic laws and state positions on jusrisdiction? If I'm contesting a ticket in traffic court, I'd opt for pro se representation.

I can't find much information specifically relating to Florida, but from what I did find it seems to depend a lot on where you are. If the violation did happen within the officers jurisdiction, which appears to be the case in your situation, they are able to pull you over outside of their jurisdiction.
Other things I've read say that their jurisdiction extends one mile beyond their town or city if the surrounding area is unincorporated.
How much is a u-turn ticket in Florida? I don't know how your points system works or anything, but I can't imagine it would be enough to make it worth getting representation. I've gone to court here a couple times without representation for tickets and gotten the points dropped but still had to pay the fine.
 
greggarious
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:51 am



Quoting Max550 (Reply 9):
I can't find much information specifically relating to Florida, but from what I did find it seems to depend a lot on where you are. If the violation did happen within the officers jurisdiction, which appears to be the case in your situation, they are able to pull you over outside of their jurisdiction.
Other things I've read say that their jurisdiction extends one mile beyond their town or city if the surrounding area is unincorporated.
How much is a u-turn ticket in Florida? I don't know how your points system works or anything, but I can't imagine it would be enough to make it worth getting representation. I've gone to court here a couple times without representation for tickets and gotten the points dropped but still had to pay the fine.

Thanks for looking it up. I got pulled over on a county road that essentially bisects a county park, so I guess if anything it's unincorporated Dade County. The ticket, if I read the accompanying pamphlet correctly, is about $165. I'd definitely represent myself in court, not worth it to find a lawyer. Talking down the points sounds like a good way to go, I'll probably take that approach.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:07 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 6):
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 2):
A police officer here with one of the smaller cities told me that he had police powers anywhere in the county.

I don't know about that. I thought only federal agencies could do that. Also some, maybe all, railroad police have national arrest powers due to railroads being involved in interstate commerce.

Anywhere in the county, not anywhere in the country.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
Unless it's expressly prohibited, it's allowed.
You are not entitled to a public safe space.
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greasespot
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:20 pm

obviously I cannot speak for the USA but for interests sake here in Canada it is like this...

All police who are sworn in a specific province can enforce all laws anywhere in the province regardless of the city or rural area. The RCMP is sworn in nationally and they can go from province to province with out being sworn in each province.

If we are chasing someone we can continue into next province....Important for provincial border cities.

So take Ontario...the OPP handles rural area and 400 series highways.....and Ottawa city handles the city...But either one can enforce laws in either's territory....ie opp can give out tickets in the city and Ottawa police can give out tickets in 400 series highways.


So in theory there is nothing preventing an Ottawa cop from giving out a ticket in Toronto,,,

gs
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flymia
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:27 pm



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 7):
So clearly, it's a question of which state you're in (in my case, it's Florida).



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 10):
anything it's unincorporated Dade County.

I am pretty sure Dade County just recently passed a law which allows any officer from any town/village/city to have the right to write traffic tickets anywhere in the county. So a Miami Beach cop going home to Miami Lakes can stop a guy doing 90mph on the 826 if he wants too. Most of the time if you see a officer out of his city than he is either driving to or from work so he wont even want to bother making traffic stops unless the officer considers the situation an immediate danger to the public. I think the same goes for Broward County too. Even if this law was not in place you still could be cited since the infraction occurred in that officers jurisdiction he could chase you up to Palm Beach and still give you a ticket.

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 10):
Talking down the points sounds like a good way to go, I'll probably take that approach.

How clean is your driving record? If it is clean ( 1 ticket or less) you could try to fight it saying that it was a new sign I did not see it was an honest mistake and see what the judge does, or plead no contest the judge would probably just give you the fine, no tickets, no traffic school. The judge could even lower the fine too. But if your record is not so great i would just do traffic school or take it to ticket clinic and see what they can do. I had a careless ticket which was my first and only ticket. It was $188, the cop said I spun my wheels and fishtailed in a parking lot in a park. Anyway just took the ticket to ticket clinic and it was dropped.
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max550
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:09 pm



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 10):
Thanks for looking it up.

No problem, I have a good bit of experience with traffic tickets  guilty 

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 10):
The ticket, if I read the accompanying pamphlet correctly, is about $165

Wow, I can see why you're trying to get out of it. The last one I had for a u-turn here was $94. The laws vary so much by state it's impossible to keep up on them.
As long as you don't have many points I would go to court and see if they can reduce the points and if you get really lucky maybe they can reduce the fine. I've had most of my tickets reduced to "failure to obey traffic control devices" which is about the same fine but no points and it's not reported to insurance.
Florida does allow you to go to traffic school once a year, which reduces the fine and points. I think it's 4 hours and can be done online so that's another option if it really doesn't look like they'll reduce your ticket.
 
flymia
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:53 pm



Quoting Max550 (Reply 14):
Florida does allow you to go to traffic school once a year, which reduces the fine and points. I think it's 4 hours and can be done online so that's another option if it really doesn't look like they'll reduce your ticket.

I don't think it reduces fine but it is no points on your license, at least for a small thing like an illegal u turn.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Question On Police Jurisdiction

Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:43 pm

Yes he had every right to ticket you. That being said, try to fight it, cops love the OT  Silly

As far as localities, in Minnesota, you have jurisdiction anywhere in the state as long as you are on official police business.

For example:
You are a cop from a rural city going to training in Minneapolis in a police car. On your way home you witness a traffic infraction. You can stop that car and issue a ticket (although this is a hassle as tickets are preprinted with the court of the agency, rather than where the offense happened.). An officer from my agency did this, he was driving home from training in an unmarked Jeep Cherokee (sneaky sneaky...haha). A car kept tailgating him and eventually passed him in a no passing zone. Activated his lights and stopped the car and gave a verbal warning for the offense.
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