Even though I try to follow US politics via online sources etc, being in Europe always leaves you with a limited view on what's happening on the other side of the pond.

You hear about birthers, about death panels, about Obama socialist and a lot of other stuff, some of which is discussed on here as well.

The question I ask myself is though: Is this the majority of Republicans/Conservatives, or is it just a loud minority?

Or, in other words:

Is there someone on this board who...

...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican
...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but:
...does think Obama was born in Hawaii
...does not think Obama is a socialist
...does not think Obama is a fascist
...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid
...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate
...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC
...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

Anyone? Why don't you speak up?

And again, please don't abuse this thread to discuss that Obama really was born in Kenya.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but: ...does think Obama was born in Hawaii ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist ...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC ...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

Change the first line to "economically conservative with respect to fiscal policy and industrial regulation" and you hit me every item on that list - except I'm not a registered Republican though I've voted for several since being of age.

I'll never be a Republican so long as the party continues to chase their fringe evangelical base and abandons libertarian issues in favor of thought and morality policing.

For a host of similar and unrelated issues, I couldn't possibly be bothered to register Democrat either. I'm rather hopeful sooner or later a good organization realizes there's a lot of folks who meet the criteria you posted, starts gathering funding, and establishes a legitimate third party with the legs and wheels to challenge these two festering groups of inefficiency, infantilism, and idiocy before either or both of them suck America's potential out of the room for good.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): The question I ask myself is though: Is this the majority of Republicans/Conservatives, or is it just a loud minority? Or, in other words:

It's the monority politicians and other right wing GOP member groups who are swaying the minds of the majority. Their views are so biased that it's rediculous. They listen to racist morons like Rush Limbaugh who claims that he loves america, but he wants our president to fail ( I mean who says that, this is not a competition). And guys like Glenn Beck (he requires no explanation, his actions speak for itself.)

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but: ...does think Obama was born in Hawaii ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist ...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC ...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

-I don't disagree with lot of his policies, but I don't like some, and i'm an avid supporter.
-Yes he was
-No he is not
-No he is not
-Yes death panels are stupid (Sarah Palin's doing, what a surprise)
-Palin was the worst decision McCain made during his campaign
-Fox News and the actions of their anchors speak for itself (not much intereted in msnbc)
-I wish the country both Dems and GOP, left wing and right could just sit down and discuss -this healthcare like normal human beings, but the GOP won't allow it, they feel more than content with rudly disrupting the town hall meetings like kids instead of actually channeling their energy and tell people what they think about the healthcare bill.

[Edited 2009-08-11 07:11:36]

[Edited 2009-08-11 07:12:45]

I used to be a registered Republican and, having grown up in an oil company environment, was right of center - but not a conservative like we see today.

The face of the Republican Party has changed over the years. I recently read that when LBJ was signing the Civil Rights Bill he said that he was giving the South to the Republicans for 50 years. Looks like he was right - there are areas of the South that seem to have a very strong influence on the Party, and that shift opened the door for the religious right to gain strength.

I'll still vote for the candidate that I feel is the better option, but the hard right has made the All Other option look a lot more attractive over the past few years.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican

I am independent, though I tend to skew Republican.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...does not think Obama is a socialist

He has shown socialist tendencies and I don't like the auto bailout. But I'm not one of the people who refer to him as Comrade Obama or his cabinet as the Politburo.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate

Can't stand her. Turns out that Legally Blonde might not be completely fictional.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC

They both suck since I know that they aren't informative and I don't find them particularly entertaining. Neither is a news network and their people aren't journalists. They are entertainers.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): Anyone? Why don't you speak up?

Because for some of those you would have to consider yourself an independent or a democratic party member.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 1): I'll never be a Republican so long as the party continues to chase their fringe evangelical base and abandons libertarian issues in favor of thought and morality policing.

There is absolutely no way a GOP candidate could win if they paid attention just to the evangelicals. I'm not in favor of abortion but my shadow only darkens churches doors on three occasions, weddings, baptisms, and funerals so I am hardly a bible thumper in any sense of the word. Similarly, do you not agree that the left chase their fringe base during the primaries? Is that not just as strange?

To the rest,

The President was born in Hawaii.

Yes the President is a socialist, the history is clear but being a socialist is not against the law.

Yes, the way he has acted since taking office has been facist in definition which is an authoratarian form of government. Taking over GM, dictating the sale of another. Attempting to take over 1/5th of the national economy. Attempting to set pay for executives. Just a few examples as we are only 6 months into his Presidency.

"Death Panels" are nothing more than another name for that part of the bill advanced by the President dealing with "health commissioners" which will have the force of law behind them to dictate medical practices. The bill is vague in many areas as are all bills. Regulation is then set by the bureaucrats. That is where, and rightly so, the fear that "death panels" will be set up. People fear bureaucrats far more than they do politicians since bureaucrats aren't elected, are usually next to impossible to fire, and usually remain faceless.

Palin was as good a choice for VP as Senator Biden has proved to be so far.

If ratings are any indicator, many more people now, than just a few months ago dislike MSNBC than do Fox.

If you disregard the 10 second videos the country is sensibly discussing health care. You don't get that out of the main stream media because it doesn't sell.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but: ...does think Obama was born in Hawaii ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist ...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC ...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

I am a registered Republican but am leaning toward registering independent but if you do that in my state Oklahoma you can't vote in the primaries.
I disagree with the policies mainly becuase of the amount they added to a all ready bloated deficit, then whenever his cronies or himself explain it everything is Bushes fault. Blaming everything on Bush is not what you call sound fiscal policy.
This is the same crap that followed Bush also, the Florida vote and his TxANG service. The Dems even tried this with McCain since he was a Navy brat born in Panama. tit for tat.
Prove to me he that is not a Socialist, everything points that way. Americans generally love and will fight for their country but all have some sort of disgust of what goes on in DC.
No he is not a Fascist
If you read about this in the actual bill it is very vague. I don't want any Fed bureaucrat telling me or a love one to suck it up and take some motrin. Death Panel may be over the top though.
About as happy as when they picked the gaff machine Joe Biden. Don't be throwing rocks in glass houses.
Fox Schmox, MSNBC, I also read in a email that even Snopes is biased now owned by 2 very liberal Californians. What is the truth?
What is going on now is throwing out the baby with the bath water. I am for reform of health care but it also has to be tort reform to go hand in hand with it or the costs will just keep skyrocketing. $20.00 for a single band aid is insain but also a Dr ordering unnessasary tests to add to the bottom line of the hospital and or to CYA from a malpractice suit is what needs to be reformed. For the uninsured or uninsurable ie pre-existing conditions we need to fix Medicare at the state level. I like the idea of Dr's who own their practice that don't take insurance but charges a set monthly fee like a retainer but in some states this illegal because of insurance laws. This is a great business model that holds down cost and shows common sense but a trial lawyers ie congressmen don't like it.
As for calling protesters unAmerican this is rich coming from a crowd that went out of their way to woo the Cindy Shehans and Michael Moore's of the world. Heck these Dems are acting like Mayor Daley of 1968 Chicago at the convention before he ordered the CPD to get rid of the protestors. The Dems are totally in control now and they need no help from the Republicans in the House or Senate to get this passed. The Dems have much better discipline in voting the party line than do the GOP so what is the problem. The flyover Dems are not buying what the coast Dems are selling.

s there someone on this board who...

...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican
Yes, I am registered republican I even have and do work with some famous repulbicans involved in politics.
disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but:
.
..does think Obama was born in Hawaii
I do think he was born in Hawaii but I do not get why they just wont show the birth certificate to shut everyone up about that stupid issue.

...does not think Obama is a socialist
Thats a close one, he is extremely liberal.

...does not think Obama is a fascist
.No except for limiting executives pay that was a little crazy IMO

..does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid
Yea a little bit.

...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate
That was a HORRIBLE DECISION if he picks Romney he wins and I and many other people would be much happier right now. Palin is a complete idiot and I hope she does not do well in 2012.

...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC
Nope, I watch all three CNN, FOX News and MSNBC most of my watching will be on CNN. Some stuff from FOX News is crazy and a lot of stuff from MSNBC is crazy. I feel that MSNBC is more biased than FOX, Fox really does seem to give more facts than MSNBC and it is more fun to watch anyway. I hate Rachel Madow there is just something about her voice and looks. CNN is the way to go for decent news coverage but they go to the left a lot too.

...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care
Yes.

I also am Pro-Choice, I think Gay-Marriage should be left for the states to decide, drinking age should be dropped to 19, Second Amendment is huge people with clear criminal records should be allowed to own a gun but no reason to allow assault weapons and it should be a bit harder to buy a gun, more background checks. Pro Death Penalty also. I think GM should have went bankrupt themselves, but the banks did need money, I am not for a government health care, I say make a cheap private option which is helped and regulated by the government for people who cant afford health care, something in those lines.

Anything I miss? I really think I am the Ultra Moderate Republican.

[Edited 2009-08-11 09:44:38]

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): Is this the majority of Republicans/Conservatives, or is it just a loud minority?

That does not happen because, from what I have seen over the past 9 years, they are called liberals and demonic, and socialist, and evil and bad, and so on and so forth and are not allowed to express their ceturist and/or rightist views, since they are not worth it.

Quoting DXing (Reply 6): the left chase their fringe base during the primaries? Is that not just as strange?

The left fringe base is groups like ELF and PETA. They are not "chased" so much as included in debate. Things like emissions control, clear-cutting forests, food safety in regards to farm animals and such things. Is that such a horrible thing? How is that as bad or worse than people who want all abortions banned, no government involved in their lives at all, and the ability to stock-pile weapons in the name of God?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4): The face of the Republican Party has changed over the years.

Correct, but so has the face of the Democratic party.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4): I recently read that when LBJ was signing the Civil Rights Bill he said that he was giving the South to the Republicans for 50 years.

Also correct. LBJ needed the GOP to pass his civil rights bill, because his own Democratic party was against it.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 2): It's the monority politicians and other right wing GOP member groups who are swaying the minds of the majority. Their views are so biased that it's rediculous.

Did you learn all of that in UCONN? Don't you think the views of the left are also biased? Don't you think the "leaders" in the DNC are being lead around by fringed left wing groups, like unions, ACORN, and College Proffessors? None of them have any reality of how to run a business, balance a checkbook, manage assets, or money, or run a government.

I don't like Obama's policies, I question if he was born in Hawaii, and I hope he fails as POTUS. I do not know the man personally, so I do not wish him any ill will.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but: ...does think Obama was born in Hawaii ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist ...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC ...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

-Im with him on abortion and gay rights I figure what the hell let them do what they want.

-He was born here

-I could go ether way. Some of his policies are close to the "red" and I always make the Omama communist joke.

-He is still somewhat a fascist but a fascist is in support of a complete right wing government and he is left wing

-To be honest I really don't no or care about "Death Panels"

-McCain yes Palin sure why not sure there are better choices but she was fine to me.

-I watch what ever is on. Sometimes fox sometimes MSNBC I do watch MSNBC for Chris Hansen his specials are awesome!

-I try to avoid the health care issue. I don't like it, don't support it, don't want to pay for it.


I just see Comrade Obama as another Democrat president. He hasn't or I doubt he will do something that puts him on the map as god himself. Sure he is black and that is a great step forward in America but people should not support him for that reason alone. I say support the issues not the skin color.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 9): The left fringe base is groups like ELF and PETA.

Sure, makes no difference the question remains unanswered.

Quoting DXing (Reply 6): Similarly, do you not agree that the left chase their fringe base during the primaries? Is that not just as strange?

During the primary campaign President Obama was, at various times, for immediately withdrawing the troops from Iraq, closing Gitmo immediately, giving the terrorists held there regular civilian trials, ending President Bush's domestic wiretap program, and ending don't ask don't tell. All geared to satisfy the left of left in the democratic party. How many of those has he kept since he took office? So spread the criticism.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter):

Those moderate Republicans have switched to the Democratic party or retired from politics all together. They are a dying breed. The last specimen of moderate Republicans is Arlen Specter (D-PA) that has recently switched to the Democratic Party.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10): LBJ needed the GOP to pass his civil rights bill, because his own Democratic party was against it.

LBJ already had the Republicans and the liberal wing of the Democratic Party which was growing very strong. It was the southern Dixicrats (now Republicans) that didn't go along with Civil Rights legislation.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10): Quoting Ken777 (Reply 4): The face of the Republican Party has changed over the years. Correct, but so has the face of the Democratic party.

You are both correct.
The southern bigoted Dixiecrats are no longer a part of the Democratic Party. They are now Republicans. The moderate Republicans of the past are mostly Democrats.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 9): The left fringe base is groups like ELF and PETA.

Those people are in the Green Party.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): The last specimen of moderate Republicans is Arlen Specter (D-PA) that has recently switched to the Democratic Party.

Wouldn't you consider Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins (R-Maine) both Moderate Republicans as well?

But I do think there are not as many as there used to be.

I think you will see a continual shift towards the more conservative "Blue Dog" democrats

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): Why don't you speak up?

Why bother? I'd hate to shatter your preformed biases.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): Is there someone on this board who... ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican

Republican since 1980

..disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but:

I agree with some of Obama's policies and disagree with others. All on a case by case basis


...does think Obama was born in Hawai

I do not in any way Question Obama's Natural born citizen status


...does not think Obama is a socialist

I do not believe he is a socialist (in most of the world he would be a centrist)


...does not think Obama is a fascist

See answer above


...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid

I do have some issues about who makes the decisions but that is still the case to day with private health insurance. I have had to appeal decisions made by my insurance regarding my daughters care


...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate

I am a life long Republican and feel Palin was the worst possible choice as VP. I could not bring myself to cast a vote for her and thus this became the first election in which I was eligible to vote for President but did not vote (I did vote in all other contests this past election)

...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC

I am not a fan of FOX news, too slanted and often presents news with an agenda even if the story is non-political. This causes moderates like myself to feel that they hurt republican politics my putting such a hateful spin on things

..just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

I agree 100%. As a patient with a genetic disorder and a father of an 8 year old with the same issues I am in favor of open and rational discussions of this issue sadly there are some on both sides of the issue that would rather spew nonsense in order to tow the party line with the resulting gridlock getting us nowhere


Politics are not simple A or B choices (R or D?). Each issue has to be looked at and judged on it's own an even then there are gray areas that require closer inspection. Some of my politics are quite liberal while some are more conservative each issue is separate as is each of political stances of said issues

IHAP

Heck I am also see the need to allow abortions in some cases (rape, incest, life of the mother in jeopardy if pregnancy goes to term).and would not object to a modicum of gun control (keep all the arms you want as long as there is some type of cursory check to make sure there is no logical/legal reason why you should not have a gun)

According to this, Republicans are far more spread out than Democrats, who tend to be Left Libertarians.

However, I will point out that the main body of the GOP is Right-Authoritarian, which is the same direction as Fascist parties (Communism falls to the upper left, socialist democracy to the lower left, and anarchy to the lower right). I see a lot of GOP accusing Obama of being a "Fascist." Better stick to "Socialist."

Moderate Republicans are much fewer than in the past. Snow, Collins, and a few others are definitely moderates, but since the Gingrich revolution in 1994 most prominent Republicans, and certainly the majority in Congress, are pretty far to the right. Goldwater was considered far right in his day, but would be much more moderate by today's standards. Today's Republican party has no place for anyone like Gerald Ford, Nelson Rockefeller, Lowell Weicker, and certainly no place for someone like Teddy Roosevelt.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but:

I do.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): does think Obama was born in Hawaii

Yea he is a US citizen

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist

I don't think he is but not sure Pelosi is not pulling his strings to try to make this country very far left.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid

I think it's a little overdone but does expose flaws in Obama's plan which can never work as written.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate

I think she was a great choice but she wasn't prepared for the media attack on her and McCain ran a terrible campaign himself.

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC

I watch FOX, I mean Beck is an idiot and Hannity is losing his mind but O'Reilly and the rest are good. As is reflected in the fact they destroy CNN and MSNBC in the ratings. As far as MSNBC goes when you put idiots on like Olbermann and Maddow what do you expect?

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

We are trying but Pelosi has got it in her head that she wants to ram this down our throats and will not listen to the people that put her in office which will be her ultimate demise. A demise that I will celebrate by drinking heavily!

Quoting Dvk (Reply 18): Today's Republican party has no place for anyone like Gerald Ford, Nelson Rockefeller, Lowell Weicker, and certainly no place for someone like Teddy Roosevelt.

Nor does the Democratic party have any room for the likes John F. Kennedy (wanted to cut taxes on rich and middle class alike as well on corps), or even Truman (union strike buster).

Quoting DXing (Reply 20): Nor does the Democratic party have any room for the likes John F. Kennedy (wanted to cut taxes on rich and middle class alike as well on corps), or even Truman (union strike buster).

Dream on. JFK would still be a Democrat, and he would be welcome with open arms. The tax cuts JFK wanted were at a time when tax rates on the rich were much higher than they are now, so it was a very different situation. Truman busting certain union strikes is not the same thing as trying to destroy organized labor altogether, which is what Republicans generally want nowadays.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 14): Wouldn't you consider Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins (R-Maine) both Moderate Republicans as well?

They just haven't switched parties.  
It's amazing that George Voinovich and Richard Lugar are considered moderates. They are self-described conservatives but the Republican Party has shifted so far to the right that they stand out as moderates.

Quoting DXing (Reply 20): Nor does the Democratic party have any room for the likes John F. Kennedy

  

More like the Democratic party has no room for people like Strom Thurmond, Jessie Helms or David Duke. All used to be Democrats but switched to the Republican party.

Let's see:

Quoting Racko (Thread starter): Is there someone on this board who... ...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican ...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but: ...does think Obama was born in Hawaii ...does not think Obama is a socialist ...does not think Obama is a fascist ...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid ...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate ...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC ...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

-Registered Republican - check
-Disagrees with most of this current administration's policies - check
-Yes, he was born in Hawaii. I'll say most Conservatives/Republicans believe this.
-Sorry, he's the closest to a Socialist we have ever had, but is he? Let's see what else he wants the government to run.
-Elitist: yes, fascist: no.
-Did I miss something entirely (I have been on vacation)...death panels?
-Romney would have been a much better choice.
-Dislike all cable news. Too much editorialization, too little reporting.
-What's to discuss? The liberals have just about shut down all debate. But yes, if we, the people (not the politicians) decide we need to take and do something about the cost of health care, then let's dicuss.

See, the Liberals have defined who our spokepeople are...and thus, have defined Conservatism. Granted, we don't have a strong voice right now. But, let's wait on the mid-terms. Pelosi and conmpany are gone. If they manage to ram this healthcare abortion down our throats (as they are trying), I see a major shift in the house.

Obama and gang are moving way too fast. Why are they pushing so much in so little time, while doing everything they can to shut down debate? Because they know the American people won't stand for it. If Obama and crew wanted this healthcare bill through, they should have done it before Stimulus and the Budget.

They have awakened the public. And we won't be spoken to the way they are speaking to us.

I consider myself to be a moderate Republican. I can't stand Obama, but also dislike Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Anne Coulter and Co. I don't believe that Obama isn't a fascist, but he may be a socialist; I also believe that the Democrats whining about the town hall disruptions are hypocrites who were silent when members of their party did the same thing for years on college campuses around the country.

Quoting DXing (Reply 20): Nor does the Democratic party have any room for the likes John F. Kennedy (wanted to cut taxes on rich and middle class alike as well on corps), or even Truman (union strike buster).

This is something I do not get about Liberals sometimes. Why should a Doctor who went to 8 years of school or the lawyer who spent over $200,000 on his or her education and 7 years of school who makes more money than the high school drop out have to pay a higher percentage of their hard earn money????????????????????

Interesting that when seeking "moderate" republicans, the OP has managed, among others, to get posts from people who certainly have come across as anything but moderate in the past.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 26): to get posts from people who certainly have come across as anything but moderate in the past.

Only because you have deemed them that without hearing anything they have to say except the opposition to Obama.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 21): The tax cuts JFK wanted were at a time when tax rates on the rich were much higher than they are now, so it was a very different situation.

How so? Democratic party members today would be more than happy to raise the level on the rich back to what it was before JFK. Even back then they did not support the cuts.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 21): Truman busting certain union strikes is not the same thing as trying to destroy organized labor altogether, which is what Republicans generally want nowadays.

Really? Telling the miners that they would be drafted into the Army if they didn't return to work? If that's not union strike busting I don't know what is.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 25): Why should a Doctor who went to 8 years of school or the lawyer who spent over $200,000 on his or her education and 7 years of school who makes more money than the high school drop out have to pay a higher percentage of their hard earn money????????????????????

A good point. I especially don't understand the trial lawyers. If the President gets his way on health care they will be killing the goose that lays their golden egg,

If a moderate Republican is someone who votes with the democrats too say:

1. Fund Fannie and Freddie Mac and vote to drop oversight of them.

2. Vote to increase welfare entitlements so as to continue the comfort of the dependent class.

3. Vote to ignore illegal aliens and work towards "comprehensive immigration reform" ie amnesty.

4. Vote for bail outs and illegal funding of banks.

5. Vote for prescription drug plans that involve government price fixing.

6. Vote with the green machine too cripple drilling , Nuke plants , and clean coal.

7. Vote against school vouchers , vote to increase spending on the education system black hole budget.

Yep ... we have had plenty of moderate republicans who have helped dig the hole.

Moderate Republicans are a rapidly evaporating "breed". Libertarians are taking their place in the political spectrum.

Source: www.lp.org

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 26): Interesting that when seeking "moderate" republicans, the OP has managed, among others, to get posts from people who certainly have come across as anything but moderate in the past.

Really, why don't you give us your definition of a moderate conservative? How about a moderate liberal?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 25): This is something I do not get about Liberals sometimes. Why should a Doctor who went to 8 years of school or the lawyer who spent over $200,000 on his or her education and 7 years of school who makes more money than the high school drop out have to pay a higher percentage of their hard earn money????????????????????

Actually, the reasoning was rather simple and applied to the times that progressive taxation was first applied.

The folks that required the most from government were the rich. They needed protection for their property and their persons. Their homes required more of the resources surrounding them. In short, the government was forced to expend more money and resources to protect the rich and their property.

But, now we have the inverse. The poor require more services from the government. They use police, fire and EMS more often. Welfare, Section 8 housing, subsidies (though, many well-to-do also benefit from these), and a myriad of other wealth distribution schemes operated by various governments at the federal, state and local level. These take wealth, in the form of taxes, from the rich and middle class and give to the government to dole out as it sees fit.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 30): Moderate Republicans are a rapidly evaporating "breed". Libertarians are taking their place in the political spectrum.

Libertarians have a place in the Republican party, but are a bit too fringe to take over. Though, I certainly have more Libertarian tendencies than Liberal.

I think you'll find that so-called moderate conservatives will turn out in droves against the current administration and current congress in 2010. 448 days until we can correct the mistakes of 2006 and 2008. 1258 until we rid ourselves President Obama.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):

Those are the moderates the Liberals love, but the party can do without.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 30): Moderate Republicans are a rapidly evaporating "breed". Libertarians are taking their place in the political spectrum.

I disagree.
The moderate Republicans are switching to the Democratic Party.
Arlen Specter, Jim Webb, and James Jeffords are not liberals.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28): I especially don't understand the trial lawyers.

Trial lawyers are lawyers who look for a lawsuit to file, especially potentially big ones as they work on a percentage basis that you are not allowed to call a commission. If they don't win they don't make money.

Defense lawyers are lawyers waiting for the trial lawyers to file their lawsuits so THEY can make money regardless of if they win or loose. Defense lawyers are the ones who piously tell the world that there is a REAL need for tort reform, while quietly praying that it never happens.

Easiest way to think of it is that they both make money in the end - they're lawyers.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 34): Defense lawyers are the ones who piously tell the world that there is a REAL need for tort reform, while quietly praying that it never happens.

Correct which makes there sole support of the democratic party even more strange.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 8): I do think he was born in Hawaii but I do not get why they just wont show the birth certificate to shut everyone up about that stupid issue.

It has been validated when Obama decided to run and the supreme court won't hear the case and keep throwing it out. Also what would showing the certificate accomplish as the birthers are still going to think it is faked regardless of whatever evidence is presented.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13): Those moderate Republicans have switched to the Democratic party or retired from politics all together. They are a dying breed. The last specimen of moderate Republicans is Arlen Specter (D-PA) that has recently switched to the Democratic Party.

They are there but they are either being silenced by the extreme right by fear of losing all credibility (example being Michael Steele rushing to apologize to Rush when he didn't need to)

Or simply they are in hiding waiting for the complete meltdown of the GOP and hoping to clear the slate which I think is the best option for them.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 23): -Sorry, he's the closest to a Socialist we have ever had, but is he? Let's see what else he wants the government to run.

Maybe by US standards but by most world standards he is centre right fiscally, pretty much in line exactly with conservative Canadian PM Stephen Harper.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29): Yep ... we have had plenty of moderate republicans who have helped dig the hole.

Yeah and where was the condemnation of that by conservatives, you guys should have been screaming at Bush last October to veto TARP (if he even could), or pretty much anything that violates traditional conservative principles. When in power the GOP is pretty much a rubber stamp for their leader and it then gives them unchecked power, which history tells us ends badly no matter who has it.

Say what you will about the democrats they do try to debate on issues internally (although they are piss poor at doing it), and in the long term its probably a good thing that Obama is being slowed down. As he is unlikely to lose congress in 2010 if the GOP can't get some other demographics back on their side, barring some huge mess up.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28): How so? Democratic party members today would be more than happy to raise the level on the rich back to what it was before JFK. Even back then they did not support the cuts.

Nobody in the Democratic party has come close to suggesting returning to the tax rates on the rich that existed in the 50's and early 60's (some of which I believe approached nearly 80%), and there's absolutely no evidence that any Democrat wants to return to those rates. If no Democrats supported the Kennedy tax cuts, then just how did they pass? The Republicans didn't control Congress at the time, so clearly the tax cuts had some Democratic support.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28): Quoting Dvk (Reply 21): Truman busting certain union strikes is not the same thing as trying to destroy organized labor altogether, which is what Republicans generally want nowadays. Really? Telling the miners that they would be drafted into the Army if they didn't return to work? If that's not union strike busting I don't know what is

You didn't even read what I said correctly. I didn't deny that Truman busted any strikes; I said it's not the same thing as trying to abolish organized labor altogether, which is what a large number of Republicans want.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 37): Nobody in the Democratic party has come close to suggesting returning to the tax rates on the rich that existed in the 50's and early 60's (some of which I believe approached nearly 80%), and there's absolutely no evidence that any Democrat wants to return to those rates.

91% was the top tax rate prior to 1964. No evidence? Cap and Trade, the surcharge proposed to pay for health care initatives. Also remember that back prior to the tax cuts of 1964 there were no payroll taxes to pay for medicare or medicaid (2.9% self employed). Many States didn't have income taxes and those that did had far lower rates. 91% total tax rates are not out of range at all. New Yok City has a top total income tax rate of 47%. In California if you make between 47K and 1 million dollars a year the State rate is 9.3% on top of the federal 35% which will automatically go back up to 38% starting in 2011.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 37): If no Democrats supported the Kennedy tax cuts, then just how did they pass? The Republicans didn't control Congress at the time, so clearly the tax cuts had some Democratic support.

Getting assassinated has a positive effect on your proposed legislation. The tax cut was not passed until early 1964.

Quoting Dvk (Reply 37): I said it's not the same thing as trying to abolish organized labor altogether, which is what a large number of Republicans want.

How many unions are there in the military?

Quoting DXing (Reply 38): How many unions are there in the military?

You missed the point. Truman busted strikes, not unions. Many Republicans want the latter.

Quoting DXing (Reply 38): New Yok City has a top total income tax rate of 47%. In California if you make between 47K and 1 million dollars a year the State rate is 9.3% on top of the federal 35% which will automatically go back up to 38% starting in 2011.

And those rates are still nowhere near the 91 percent marginal rate prior to 1964. And please keep that word "marginal" in there. The rich don't pay 35 percent of every dollar, only of those above a certain amount.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 39): You missed the point. Truman busted strikes, not unions. Many Republicans want the latter.

The point was that if it came down to it Truman would have forceably enlisted the miners thereby busting their union. It didn't happen because the miners backed down.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 39): And those rates are still nowhere near the 91 percent marginal rate prior to 1964.

As stated, most States either didn't have an income tax or the rate was much lower. Gas taxes were much lower, telecommunication taxes were virutually non existent, there are so many hidden taxes that now exist that didn't then there is not enough room to list them all or those that are being proposed.

Kennedy was a virtual Republican by todays standards.

Quoting DXing (Reply 40): As stated, most States either didn't have an income tax or the rate was much lower. Gas taxes were much lower, telecommunication taxes were virutually non existent, there are so many hidden taxes that now exist that didn't then there is not enough room to list them all or those that are being proposed.

You're dodging the point. Even with all those taxes, no one today pays anything close to a 91 percent marginal tax rate.

Quoting DXing (Reply 40): The point was that if it came down to it Truman would have forceably enlisted the miners thereby busting their union. It didn't happen because the miners backed down.

Precisely - he busted the strike. But the corollary to his policy was that as long as unions didn't strike in such a fashion as to cripple essential resource production, he was fine with union activity. Many current Republicans, on the other hand, oppose unions even when they aren't striking.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41): You're dodging the point. Even with all those taxes, no one today pays anything close to a 91 percent marginal tax rate.

You're failing to acknowledge the point, that the total tax burden, whether it be 91% straight income tax, or a conglomerate of lesser federal and state taxes that add up and will be added too shortly will shortly make up the same amount.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41): Precisely - he busted the strike. But the corollary to his policy was that as long as unions didn't strike in such a fashion as to cripple essential resource production, he was fine with union activity. Many current Republicans, on the other hand, oppose unions even when they aren't striking.

   Please name those, if you can. Which leading republicans have called for the end or even the restriction of unions.

Quoting DXing (Reply 42): Please name those, if you can. Which leading republicans have called for the end or even the restriction of unions.

Not sure about leading Republicans, though I'm sure I'd find something if I looked, but Republican members of this forum express anti-union sentiment all the time, suggesting that the American economy would be better off without them.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 36): Yeah and where was the condemnation of that by conservatives, you guys should have been screaming at Bush last October to veto TARP (if he even could), or pretty much anything that violates traditional conservative principles. When in power the GOP is pretty much a rubber stamp for their leader and it then gives them unchecked power, which history tells us ends badly no matter who has it.

Correct ... we missed the opportunity to stand . I posted on here and opposed it big time .. but we certainly needed tea party style opposition . For what its worth , there were many at the tea parties who were flaming Bush over it ... It opened the door for the wrecking crew in there now.

This goes to the McCain campaign as well... McCain should have went to Washington and opposed that bill. I thought he was going too ... Bush gave him a fastball down the middle to hit out of the park ... and he missed it. It was a huge mistake by his campaign.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 43): Not sure about leading Republicans, though I'm sure I'd find something if I looked, but Republican members of this forum express anti-union sentiment all the time, suggesting that the American economy would be better off without them

That's called freedom of speech, of course as we now know that is considered Un-American. BTW I am not a "moderate" republican, I am a fiscal conservative. Unions are fine, Union leaders are for the most part, the most dangerous to their members.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 36): Also what would showing the certificate accomplish as the birthers are still going to think it is faked regardless of whatever evidence is presented.

Exactly. There is no piece of evidence that you can show the Birthers that will convince them that he was born in the U.S. Too much of their personal identities rests on this belief.

You will sooner show a religious man "proof" that his religion is wrong.

...considers himself conservative or is even a registered republican
Yes I'm a registered Republican, but I have more Libertarian tendencies than most GOPers have.


...disagrees with a lot of policies of the Obama administration, but:

I disagree with almost all of his economic and spending policies.

...does think Obama was born in Hawaii

Of course. The birthers are nuts

...does not think Obama is a socialist
Well his economic policies have been borderline socialist policies. The bailouts, Healthcare overhaul, micromanagement of GM, and other such policies.

...does not think Obama is a fascist

I don't think he is a facist

...does consider the talk about "death panels" to be stupid

I do not believe Obama is out to kill my grandmother, but I still strongly oppose government health care.
...wasn't exactly happy with the choice of Palin as McCain's running mate

I was not happy at all. there were so many other Republican governors who would've been far better.

...dislikes Fox News just as much as MSNBC

Depends on the program. I don't love fox, but I still watch Fox more than any other network.
...just wishes the country could sensibly discuss about health care

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46): Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 36): Also what would showing the certificate accomplish as the birthers are still going to think it is faked regardless of whatever evidence is presented. Exactly. There is no piece of evidence that you can show the Birthers that will convince them that he was born in the U.S. Too much of their personal identities rests on this belief.

All true but by presenting his birth certificate at the WH to reporters he would completely marginalize the people known as "birthers" and eliminating virtually any press coverage. Rarely is the person at the center of a conspiracy theory in position to end the theory for the vast majority. Here's the chance. Some will always believe, as in the reference to religion, but who pays any attention to them after the myth is so completely busted?

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 36): They are there but they are either being silenced by the extreme right by fear of losing all credibility (example being Michael Steele rushing to apologize to Rush when he didn't need to)

Proof that Michael Steele is nothing but a token figurehead for the Republican Party to give the illusion of diversity.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41): You're dodging the point. Even with all those taxes, no one today pays anything close to a 91 percent marginal tax rate.

  

Quoting DXing (Reply 45): That's called freedom of speech, of course as we now know that is considered Un-American.

How about flag burning?
These mobs showing up at these town halls are just as bad, if not worse.