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Revelation
Topic Author
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GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:45 pm

Have you seen the new GM commercial?

The new CEO is walking around what is (allegedly) a GM design studio.

The main pitch is GM is offering to let you return a new GM car up to 60 days after purchase if you don't like it.

He said "We are putting our money where our mouth is" but of course my first thought was "He's putting OUR money where his mouth is".

They showed four new GM cars in an arrangement.

I have to say the designs of those cars and others they showed during the commercial are hideous. Strange, elongated and misshapen headlights. Grills gaping wide open. Grotesquely large emblems. To me they looked like the designers were in love with mutant reptiles.

Not one car had any appeal to me.

I think GM (and our loan money) is in deep, deep trouble.
 
Elite
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:50 pm

I haven't seen the new commercial - what new GM cars are you talking about? I thought I read in TIME and Economist that there is new hope for GM because of smart, innovating new designs.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:15 pm



Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):

The new CEO is walking around what is (allegedly) a GM design studio.

I'm pretty sure that IS the GM design center in Warren, MI


I actually like some of the new products that GM has, very sharp and bold.
 
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:33 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 1):
what new GM cars are you talking about?

Sorry, I only saw the commercial once, and I'm not all that familiar with GM's products.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
I'm pretty sure that IS the GM design center in Warren, MI

It could very well be.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
I actually like some of the new products that GM has, very sharp and bold.

Hopefully not too bold for the market.

I don't know, like many people it takes me a while to get accustomed to change. Maybe in a couple of years I'll think they are great. But I have to wonder if GM has a couple more years left in it. Hopefully all the changes they've made to reduce costs will give them enough time for their new products to catch on.
 
D L X
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:26 pm

I'm quite surprised with some of the new cars, especially the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. FINALLY, a luxury car in the BMW 3-series size, made in America. (Yes, yes, I know the 3-series is also made in America, but not by an American company.) I'm going to test drive the LaCrosse this weekend, and I *might* *might* just buy one.  Smile  Smile  Smile
 
tommy767
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:19 pm

actually GM has had some very cutting edge styling for this decade, even during the early days of their financial troubles. The Cadillac CTS, Malibu (4 and 5 generation), Saab 9-3, Buick Lucerne, Saturn Vue were all very aerodynamic and sporty for this decade.

Now you want to talk about conservative, bland or even hideous styling head right over to Toyota. I think they are very good cars but really have some bloated looking vehicles such the new camry or prius. I always say, would it kill toyota to make a hybrid that didn't look like such a weird mess?
 
flanker
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:00 pm

I don't like how the CEO opened that commercial. It seems negative towards the brand and the people who build the cars. However, government motors is making some pretty nice cars at the moment.
 
Flighty
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:40 pm



Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
(and our loan money)

It wasn't really a loan. The money will never come back to the US government. *Especially* not the Chrysler money.

The people who work for GM are politically powerful, so next tax day understand that they will be getting a cut of your annual pay, because they have more power than you do. An offer you can't refuse.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:22 pm

Quoting Elite (Reply 1):
smart, innovating new designs.

The problem I see with their new cars is that they did nothing but freshen up the looks yet they still feel cheap and poorly built. GM cars as of late have been nothing but an orgy of cheap plastics, thin unbreathable cloths and leathers that seem to originate from rat skin.

Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
(Yes, yes, I know the 3-series is also made in America, but not by an American company.

All 3 series are made in Germany, AFAIK. My dad's 325i was built in Munich. The only beamers built in the US are the X5 and X6

[Edited 2009-09-25 14:23:16]

[Edited 2009-09-25 14:23:30]
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:55 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
luxury car in the BMW 3-series size, made in America.

The Buick LaCrosse is a fine vehicle, the only problem is that it's front-wheel drive.  Sad
So no it's not a competitor to the the BMW 3-series which is rear-drive. The smallest American sedan that is rear-drive is the Dodge Charger. Still larger than the BMW 3-Series, but not much.
 
Ken777
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:15 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
I'm quite surprised with some of the new cars, especially the 2010 Buick LaCrosse.

I think that the LaCrosse is an attractive car, but a bit pricey.

Actually I believe that the Big 3 need to cut some prices after the cost cuts they received. It seems that they just happily increase prices without thought to the consumer's ability to pay.

And price is the only thing making me look at KIA rather than GM or Ford for a new car.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:33 pm

I haven't seen the commercial (and probably never will) but if that travesty they call the Camaro is any indication, GM is going down the ugly slope after Chrysler.
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:50 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Actually I believe that the Big 3 need to cut some prices after the cost cuts they received. It seems that they just happily increase prices without thought to the consumer's ability to pay.

And price is the only thing making me look at KIA rather than GM or Ford for a new car.

The Mercury Grand Marquis is a good deal. Especially for the amount of car you get for the money.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:15 pm



Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
I think GM (and our loan money) is in deep, deep trouble.

They have been for a long time, because they can't (won't) build a good car.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
I actually like some of the new products that GM has, very sharp and bold.

But mechanically, they have been falling short for a long time.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
the only problem is that it's front-wheel drive.

 checkmark 

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
So no it's not a competitor to the the BMW 3-series which is rear-drive.

Hardly anyone since 1980 has cross shopped a Buick and a BMW. Buick got bad, real bad.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
I think that the LaCrosse is an attractive car, but a bit pricey.

Considering what it is, it is definitely overpriced. Pontiac was making (importing actually) good cars and they get cut. Buick should have been put out of its misery. It is like GM doesn't want to succeed.
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:32 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
Hardly anyone since 1980 has cross shopped a Buick and a BMW. Buick got bad, real bad.

I can't recall any models of any year that are remotely similar between Buick and BMW.
Buick did not get bad at all. Buick is the shinning star at General Motors in my opinion.
Buick is my favorite division at GM.
Some of the best Buicks ever made came out after 1980.
Buick is the only manufacture that can make a good front-drive large sedan.
Cadillac should have NEVER went front-drive. The Eldorado and Allante will always have the dubious distinction as the worlds most expensive front-drive cars.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:56 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
I'm quite surprised with some of the new cars, especially the 2010 Buick LaCrosse. FINALLY, a luxury car in the BMW 3-series size, made in America.

Let us know what you think! I was -really- impressed by it...if you'd asked me two years ago if I'd seriously consider a Buick, I'd have laughed out loud.

And BTW I think the US-import 3ers either come from Leipzig, Regensburg, or Munich. Call me crazy, but it sticks in my head that they also import a select few from...South Africa?? Maybe I've just been reading too many of Andz's posts  Wink

BMW Spartanburg builds the SUV's I think, and used to build the Z.
 
sccutler
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:13 am

I like the looks of both the Buick LaCrosse, and the Lucerne.

My Cadillac Deville, while FWD, is tight, smooth and fa-a-a-st st 102,000 miles. I intend to drive it at least 50,000 miles more before selling.

I anticipate spending the money I would have spent on a new car: (1) getting my '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Cabriolet back into roadable trim, and (2) building up and, ultimately, installing a TCM IO550 engine (hopefully with Millennium cylinders) for my Bonanza.

I drive old cars, so I can afford an old airplane.
 
melpax
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:24 am



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 15):
And BTW I think the US-import 3ers either come from Leipzig, Regensburg, or Munich. Call me crazy, but it sticks in my head that they also import a select few from...South Africa?? Maybe I've just been reading too many of Andz's posts

Don't know about the 3 series cars sold in the States, but I know that most of the 3s sold here in Oz are imported from South Africa. Same goes for the Benz C-Class, VW Golf (I think a version of the Polo sold here is imported from China), and the Previous model Toyota Corolla! (not sure where the current model is imported from)
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:59 am



Quoting SCCutler (Reply 16):
(1) getting my '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Cabriolet back into roadable trim,

I drive old cars, so I can afford an old airplane.

Now you're talking!
Smart move.  yes 
 
jcs17
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:29 am

GM is still a company that generally puts out an inferior product that is unpopular. That's the end of the story.

At the end of the day, GM should have folded.

If I was President...

1. There should be an auction for GM's plants.

2. They will keep General Motors workers in each plant they bid on, however labor should be allowed to be reduced to normal levels.

3. There will be no hiring off the street for 10 years (which should allow for furloughed workers to come back through retirement).

4. Companies with established operations in the US like Toyota, Subaru, Hyundai, MB, BMW, etc. should pay at rates equal to which their previously established plants are paying.... and those not established in the US market should match the average of those plants.

5. Unless there is gross malfeasance occurring in any of these plants in terms of workers rights, the UAW should agree to a 10 year moratorium in these plants.
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:47 am

The Lucerne is a direct aim at the ES/Avalon/TL crowd not so much the 3-series crowd.
 
mirrodie
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:30 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
but an orgy of cheap plastics, thin unbreathable cloths and leathers that seem to originate from rat skin.

And that is no different from Toyota, Nissan, Honda and any other brand out there. Plastics and the other points you mention are all used to make cars at a similar price point.
/

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
All 3 series are made in Germany, AFAIK. My dad's 325i was built in Munich.

Totally different price point. Totally different discussion. BMW and similar lines dont even belong in this discussion.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:31 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Buick did not get bad at all.

The Regal and LeSabre of the 90s didn't seem that good to me. Maybe you have to be 65+ to like them.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Some of the best Buicks ever made came out after 1980.

My dad had a 96 Roadmaster Limited that was a solid powerful car. The biggest problem was that many of the luxury features failed at various times. The air suspension, seat heaters, etc.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Buick is the shining star at General Motors in my opinion.

In China sure. Honestly though, I can't see myself ever wanting a Buick.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Buick is the only manufacture that can make a good front-drive large sedan

Large sedans shouldn't be front wheel drive at all.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Cadillac should have NEVER went front-drive.

Definitely.
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:51 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
The Regal and LeSabre of the 90s didn't seem that good to me. Maybe you have to be 65+ to like them.

I liked the W-body Regal of the early 1990s when I was in my late teens. Especially with the electronic instrument panel.
LeSebre? Mine as well get the Park Avenue.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
My dad had a 96 Roadmaster Limited that was a solid powerful car. The biggest problem was that many of the luxury features failed at various times. The air suspension, seat heaters, etc.

My Grandmother still has hers.
I love driving that car when I visit.
Her's has had those problems too but I rather blame my cousin who drives it a lot! He doesn't know how to maintain any car he's ever owned!  mad 

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
Large sedans shouldn't be front wheel drive at all.

I agree but some think they're better in the snow.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:30 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
I agree but some think they're better in the snow.

That is what AWD is for. FWD should not be in anything bigger than a compact and NEVER in any car that bills itself as being a luxury or sport sedan. Everyone talks about the Maxima and how great a car it is. I'd say how much greater it could be if they'd make it rear or all wheel drive.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Her's has had those problems too but I rather blame my cousin who drives it a lot! He doesn't know how to maintain any car he's ever owned!

My dad wasn't (isn't) that big on maintenance either, but I don't think it was his fault. Just marginal 90s Detroit engineering. Right idea, bad execution.

The other thing about that car was that the beige leather (vinyl actually I think) had worn pretty badly, especially the steering wheel. And the trim bits left something to be desired. Also, the C pillars on that thing were huge (they had to be in order to house the neon lights - awesome) and created a massive blind spot. My mom's Caprice wagon on the other hand, that is like a fishbowl. Doesn't even need the side mirrors really.
 
hjulicher
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:57 am



Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 19):
GM is still a company that generally puts out an inferior product that is unpopular. That's the end of the story.

You make it seem that nobody buys GM products which is totally not the case, and maybe GM North America doesn't sell or produce the best products, but other GM divisions actually do make very good products. I think the problem that the US gets different cars then other areas is because Americans care less about the interior plastics and feel. However, there are always those of us who do care, and so we're always disappointed with the feel of their interior plastics (me especially with the newly released Camaro).

However, in terms of engineering, GM is one of the best. Again, the North American markets was skimped on because earlier in this decade, most Americans didn't bother or care enough about fuel efficiency. Lately every new GM product has had fuel efficiency on par or better than their rivals. The new 3.6 V6 being installed across the board gets very strong numbers while outputing over 300hp. Additionally, the new Equinox SUV gets 32mpg hwy. GM can build good cars, and I think they need to address quality in their cars. Engineers design the cars well, but then the marketing department says they are too expensive and costs have to be slashed because they won't sell. I'd pay a premium for an American car if it was manufactured with exceptionally good plastics inside, well-engineered for fuel economy and reliability, and tasteful design. I think the new Chevy products are really hitting the mark, and I also thought bringing Opel as Saturns over to the US was a good idea.

I'm more confused about Buick, but the new LaCrosse sedan is very good looking, albeit equally bloated as Lexus. I'd have to sit in one to compare however. Buick does very well in China, and since that's a growing market and Buick has a name, Buick was kept in favor of the other brands.

I think now with just four core brands, GM will be able to spend development dollars more equally and no one company would be starved of new product.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:26 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 21):

And that is no different from Toyota, Nissan, Honda and any other brand out there. Plastics and the other points you mention are all used to make cars at a similar price point.

I am well aware of that, thank you. Hence why I avoid all those brands you mentioned.

German/most European cars seem to be the few exceptions.

If GM, or anyone else for that matter, builds a crap product, they get crappy business. Simple as that.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 21):
Totally different price point. Totally different discussion. BMW and similar lines dont even belong in this discussion.

I was just clarifying where they're made, alright? and I wasn't the only one...  Yeah sure
 
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Revelation
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:11 pm



Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 25):
Engineers design the cars well, but then the marketing department says they are too expensive and costs have to be slashed because they won't sell.

In theory, the bankruptcy and getting rid of Pontiac etc should have cut their costs so hopefully they will be able to improve the product without increasing the prices.

BTW the commercial is available via YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0te5...Phase_II_-_60_Day_|_Divisions_|_gm

The buggy-eyed reptile I talked about is at 0:39 into the clip.

At 0:49 you see the 4 car lineup I was taking about.

From left to right:
- Pug nosed gangsta truck
- Gaping mouthed comic muscle car (is that the new Camaro?)
- Buggy eyed reptile
- Indistinguishable generic looking car

I'm not impressed, but maybe I'm not the target audience.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:35 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):

From left to right:
- Pug nosed gangsta truck
- Gaping mouthed comic muscle car (is that the new Camaro?)
- Buggy eyed reptile
- Indistinguishable generic looking car

 rotfl   rotfl 

I just loved the part where he says "car for car, when compared to the competition, we win" and then "I know when you get into one of our cars you're gonna like waht you see"

I don't know what he's smoking, but I want some of that stuff.  Silly
 
BMI727
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:12 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 28):
"car for car, when compared to the competition, we win"

Do they not have Mercedes Benz dealers in Detroit?
 
Pyrex
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:53 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
The Mercury Grand Marquis is a good deal. Especially for the amount of car you get for the money.

It is true you get a lot of car for your money, but only because that butt ugly thing is the size of a small battleship, not because it is any good. If you are running a sleazy airport car service or 80+ and living in Florida the Grand Marquis might be a choice worth considering, everyone else should stay away.
 
flanker
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:31 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 28):

I just loved the part where he says "car for car, when compared to the competition, we win" and then "I know when you get into one of our cars you're gonna like waht you see"

The new Malibus may not beat a 09 A4, but the change from the old models is fantastic! I think the interior is exceptional compared to any previous malibu generation
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:11 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
FWD should not be in anything bigger than a compact and NEVER in any car that bills itself as being a luxury or sport sedan.

 checkmark 

I would hope that front-wheel drive goes away for mid-size and large cars in the future.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
My dad wasn't (isn't) that big on maintenance either, but I don't think it was his fault. Just marginal 90s Detroit engineering. Right idea, bad execution.

In my cousin's case, I blame him. Wrecked a 2-year old Lexus SC400 coupe, ruined a 7-year old Monte Carlo by letting it run out of oil yet continued to drive it. He'll screw up just about any car.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:05 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
ruined a 7-year old Monte Carlo by letting it run out of oil yet continued to drive it.

My dad did that too...but it was with a lawn mower.
 
sccutler
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:06 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):

In my cousin's case, I blame him. Wrecked a 2-year old Lexus SC400 coupe, ruined a 7-year old Monte Carlo by letting it run out of oil yet continued to drive it. He'll screw up just about any car.

Damn. Abusing a perfectly decent car, and a Lexus, too.
 
mirrodie
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:26 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 26):
I am well aware of that, thank you. Hence why I avoid all those brands you mentioned.

German/most European cars seem to be the few exceptions.

If GM, or anyone else for that matter, builds a crap product, they get crappy business. Simple as that.

Then perhaps all brands should be avoided, as they are all just rubber, plastic cloth and leather at the end of the day. :-/

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 26):
I was just clarifying where they're made, alright? and I wasn't the only one...

I know.

At the end of the day, it's not a Euro/German vs American car thing. Its value. The used car lot nearby has more BMWs and Acuras in it than Toyota or GM. And the area has home values in the 500s to 1.2Ms. So it can support higher price points but it doesnt seem that is what the market is pushing these days.

Seems there is less of a tendency toward fancy cars and more of a drive toward higher MPGs, hence the Equinoxes and Acadias (high MPG for their size).

As far as 'cheap interior plastics' that some here are complaining about, I guess I dont notice that. I'm too busy keeping my eyes on the road, avoiding apathetic drivers busying themselves with their superior plastic interiors and iPhones while driving.  Silly
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:56 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 29):
Do they not have Mercedes Benz dealers in Detroit?

I'd take a CTS over a C-class any day of the week. Infact, I'd take an SRX over a GLK as well.
 
A340Spotter
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:25 am

All I want to know is why Pontiac isn't a part of their lineup in the commercial. There are still a few 2010 models to be sold.

As a 2004 Grand Prix and 2005 GTO owner, and coming from a longtime GM family (Grandfather sold Chevy's for decades), I'm supremely disappointed with the GM product line at this time. Granted, the cost of importing the Pontiac G8 from Australia didn't help, but how many negatives were ever heard on this model? Very few. It was to be my next car but now I'll look to an import most likely.

My wife and I are in the crossover market at this time and we test drove the 2010 Equinox. Looks nice on the outside but really felt shoddy on the inside. It was immediately crossed off. The Acadia? When a salesperson advised me that there's too many mechanical issues with it, it didn't even get a chance. Now Saturn going away kills another option. We're probably going with a Mazda CX-7 or CX-9 and be happy with something that looks good, gets decent mileage in the case of the CX-7 and feels like it will last for years to come. No Chevy in my view feels that way anymore and it saddens me.

JSD
 
Type-Rated
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:10 am

I had a 1989 Buick Reatta, the handbuilt two seater car from GM. I really liked it. It had a great build quality to it and to me felt like a Jaguar when driving it. I kept it for 4 years before trading it in for something bigger (my driving needs changed). I still miss it.
 
Superfly
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:32 am



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 38):
I had a 1989 Buick Reatta,

Beautiful car!  Cool  yes 

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 36):
I'd take a CTS over a C-class any day of the week.

 checkmark 
Same here!
Better looking car, faster and more reliable.
Best of all, it's made with expert union members. Not outsourced scabs in the former slave states.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:10 pm



Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
All I want to know is why Pontiac isn't a part of their lineup in the commercial.

I guess you didn't hear about GM phasing/killing off the Pontiac brand as part of their re-structuring program earlier this year. Usually when a brand is being phased out it is almost NEVER advertised. Similar happenned during Oldsmobile's and Plymouth's final year.

Update: In case nobody else already heard, the Penske/Saturn deal just recently fell through, so now the Saturn brand will be gone before the last Pontiac rolls out.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
There are still a few 2010 models to be sold.

IIRC, the only Pontiac available for the 2010 model year is the Vibe; and that's only due to the fact that the platform (which is also shared with the Toyota Matrix) was recently revamped this past model year (though it had an early (spring 2008) introduction).
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6797
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:42 pm



Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
My wife and I are in the crossover market at this time and we test drove the 2010 Equinox. Looks nice on the outside but really felt shoddy on the inside.

So are we. Equinox/GMC Terrain twins were a bit tight. I didnt think the SLT trim was shoddy though.

Interesting thing though, although the MPG on the Equinox/Terrain is higher, the annual fuel cost was LESS on the bigger Traverse/Acadia.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
The Acadia? When a salesperson advised me that there's too many mechanical issues with it, it didn't even get a chance.

Wow, you got a down to earth honest salesman. Never heard or read that about the Acadia! I just feel that for $40K, you can get a Honda Pilot, same MPG and same amenities for less. no brainer.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
Now Saturn going away kills another option.

Given your thoughts on the Equinox, the Vue is a tighter carbon copy. On the flip side, you might be able to snag a GREAT deal on a Saturn right now.

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
We're probably going with a Mazda CX-7 or CX-9

Drove my friend's, real nice, but again, the Pilot seems a better value for the same amenities. And the back door swings WAY wide. Its a Mazda with a Grand Marquis back door  Wink

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 37):
No Chevy in my view feels that way anymore and it saddens me.

Yep. Chevy = GM = future?


I hope for the best for GM but they have got to start making better decisions to compete in this market.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13753
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:51 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
All 3 series are made in Germany, AFAIK. My dad's 325i was built in Munich.

the 3 series is made/assembled in the following locations:

Leipzig, Germany
Munich, Germany
Regensburg, Germany
Rosslyn, South Africa
Cairo, Egypt
Jakarta, Indonesia
Kaliningrad, Russia
Shenyang, China
Kulim, Malaysia

The North American market gets them from the German plants and some from South Africa.
 
A340Spotter
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:52 am

RE: GM: May The Best Car Win?!?

Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:41 pm



Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 40):
I guess you didn't hear about GM phasing/killing off the Pontiac brand as part of their re-structuring program earlier this year. Usually when a brand is being phased out it is almost NEVER advertised

No, I had heard about the killing off of Pontiac. Now with the new model year upon us, the advertising has kicked in (or them). My local dealer updated their sports radio ad to only mention GMC-Buick. Sad.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 40):
IIRC, the only Pontiac available for the 2010 model year is the Vibe

And that seems to be the case, indeed. It's the only model that shows up on the Pontiac website as a 2010. Lends creedence to the dealer telling me that a well known former boxer/salesman picking up 2 G8 GXPs and placing them into storage for investment purposes.

JSD

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