Man oh man. After months of name calling from the GOP and no answers, somebody from the dems finally fired back. Rep. Grayson (D) from florida, said the GOP were neanderthals "who think they can dictate policy to America by being stubborn." BTW, I love it. With all this talk of death panels and communist and socialists set on "destroying the constitution", I was waiting for the Dems to respond and even thought it's just a Rep. i'll take it. Here's a video of his appearance on the situation room on CNN


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_aiQcAt6Q&feature=related

BTW, he also asked the GOP to apologize to america and I think they owe more than an apology. They have insulted America. (Please don't turn this into another arguement/childish thread. Lets at least talk politics like adults.)

I think Rep. Grayson's comments that Republicans are a bunch of "knuckle-dragging neanderthals" was out of line. I think his use of the word "holocaust" was also out of line. However, I think the demands from Republicans that he apologize in front of congress were also out of line. What Grayson said on CNN does not compare to the breach of decorum displayed when Rep. Wilson yelled "you lie" at the President of the United States in a joint session of congress, interrupting the President's speech.

As to Grayson's point that the Republican health plan seems to be "don't get sick" and if you do "die quickly", I think he's uncomfortably close to the truth. Here's House Minority Whip Eric Cantor and possibly the most inept answer I've ever heard from a politician:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yyiJpeA4w

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): (Please don't turn this into another arguement/childish thread. Lets at least talk politics like adults

I think you blew that out of the water with the almost giddy tone of your posting.

But the simple fact is that Grayson is from a very conservative district and these comments are probably political sucide for him. And I don't think he is aware of that.

I don't think we will have to worry about his loud insane rantings after next November.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 1): I think Rep. Grayson's comments that Republicans are a bunch of "knuckle-dragging neanderthals" was out of line

I agree that his comments are out of line, but I thought it was out of line when Joe Wilson callled the president a liar in front of 40 million Americans. I thought Sarah Palin was out of line when she proposed the rediculous idea of death panels. I also thought it was out of line when Rep. Franks called Obama, and I quote, "An enemy of humanity." With the exception of Joe Wilson, nobody said any of these people were out of line with their comments and nobody certainly asked for an apology, again, with the exception of Wilson. I think U.S. politics is a prize fight on pay-per-view, but the republicans have time and time again hit below the belt with their comments and this is one of the first public response from a democrat.

Dear Rep. Grayson,

Correction,

Republicans are neanderthals...and so are Democrats. You are all sub-human filth undeserving of any compassion. You are all liars and criminals. You know know honor, you have no honor. You are loyal only to your party and not to your country or your constituents. The only ones who follow you are blinded sheep who load up on FOX and MSNBC "commentators". May you all rot in hell you miserable pussbags. You deserve no respect, only contempt. You are beneath even the lowliest of the low.

You all owe us an apology, and should BEG for forgiveness.

Signed,
A fed up American public.

Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered.

  B4e-Forever New Frontiers  

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 4): Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered.

  

you could end this thread (and many similar) with this very line. Never truer words have been spoken

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 4): Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered.

Bravo! That's pretty close to the truth.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): Man oh man. After months of name calling from the GOP and no answers, somebody from the dems finally fired back. Rep. Grayson (D) from florida, said the GOP were neanderthals "who think they can dictate policy to America by being stubborn." BTW, I love it. With all this talk of death panels and communist and socialists set on "destroying the constitution", I was waiting for the Dems to respond and even thought it's just a Rep. i'll take it.

I would not say the Dems have not given any answers. What about Pelosi's comments about people carrying swashisicers? What about Barnie Frank's comments? There are hundreds of comments from both sides, but in my opinion, the Dems have stooped to new lows.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): BTW, he also asked the GOP to apologize to america and I think they owe more than an apology. They have insulted America.

When does America get an apology from the Dems for bankrupting the country and trying to turn us int scoialism? They have insulted America.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): (Please don't turn this into another arguement/childish thread. Lets at least talk politics like adults.)

Then why start out with childish comments?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 1): I think his use of the word "holocaust" was also out of line.

It was. The holocaust killed more than 6M people just because of their religion. The GOP did that too?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 1): I think the demands from Republicans that he apologize in front of congress were also out of line.

It was.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 1): As to Grayson's point that the Republican health plan seems to be "don't get sick" and if you do "die quickly", I think he's uncomfortably close to the truth.

Can he back that up? NO he cannot. He and his fellow Dems have not allowed any Repub inputs (amendments) into any of the various health bills. It is far from any truth. You can always be sure of a lie if a Dem is saying something.

Quoting HercTech (Reply 5): Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 4): Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered. you could end this thread (and many similar) with this very line. Never truer words have been spoken

Quoting Cpd (Reply 6): Bravo! That's pretty close to the truth.

That is the truth.

I can't wait for Grayson to join the unemployed in November 2010.

[Edited 2009-10-02 04:40:03]

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 4): Dear Rep. Grayson, Correction, Republicans are neanderthals...and so are Democrats. You are all sub-human filth undeserving of any compassion. You are all liars and criminals. You know know honor, you have no honor. You are loyal only to your party and not to your country or your constituents. The only ones who follow you are blinded sheep who load up on FOX and MSNBC "commentators". May you all rot in hell you miserable pussbags. You deserve no respect, only contempt. You are beneath even the lowliest of the low. You all owe us an apology, and should BEG for forgiveness. Signed, A fed up American public. Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered.

/stands and applauds, slow clap

Shit yeah. Lock up the thread now, because no one’s gonna top that one.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): When does America get an apology from the Dems for bankrupting the country and trying to turn us int scoialism? They have insulted America.

When W came into office President Clinton had left the nation with a surplus and the debt was decreasing.

Who bankrupt the nation?
Bush was in office for 8 years and what was the most significant domestic program implemented?

People think the stimulus only happened under Obama.
The first stimulus was in the fall of 2008 under Bush. The 2nd was proposed by the Bush administration and picked up by the Obama administration.
Bailout of the banking system was under Bush.
Bailout of the car industry was proposed under Bush and inacted under Obama.

If a republican proposes it...its okay
If a democrat proposes it...its socialism.

Obama has been in for 9 months. That is less than 1/4 of a term.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 6): The holocaust killed more than 6M people just because of their religion. The GOP did that too?

Did someone not read the quote? He did not accuse the GOP of atrocities in WWII. He was referring to the fact that 40,000 Americans die every year due to a lack of health insurance and access to affordable health care. He considered this a holocaust. The use of an "a" versus "the" makes a big difference.

That said most people GOP and DEM have said that the use of the word was wrong.

Also not all GOP are Neanderthals but certainly there seems to be too many lacking of thought and the ability to work without the core ideals set by our founding fathers. This is evident in the tactics of ...
1) Undermining the democratic system by claiming that Obama was not lawfully elected
2) Supporting the birthers even though evidence is solid that he was born in America.
3) Calling for open overthrow of the US government instead of using the system set up 233 years ago.
4) Scaring people by using terms most americans actually don't understand. "Socialism"...most people do not understand that this is NOT and economic nor political system but a sub-system for taking care of people in a country. Japan is a free market, democracy with a socialist sub-system. They are the 2nd richest nation in the world. Most Americans do not understand how other countries work nor what those people have.
5) Claiming "death panels" and other things for the simple reason of derailing the system, creating fear and undermining the truth.

The GOP doesn't like that they lost the last Presidential election. They don't like that they lost congress. So what do they do...undermine the system, insult the system, try to hoodwink the masses by spreading lies and embracing the most extreme elements of their party. This is a very dangerous road for America and the GOP. We hate extremists from other countries but embrace them in the US. Extremism either right or left is dangerous and is un-American. Our founding fathers built this nation on compromise, working together and developing ideas for the greater good of the nation.

Was Grayson wrong? As far as I can tell....no. 40,000 Americans die every year due to a lack of affordable health care. The GOP plan is more private, which means don't get sick and don't have preconditions. No GOP congress person is against cutting their own public health care. But certainly are against it for everyone else.

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right."
-Thomas Paine

"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance."
- Will Durant

Woah!

I think someone incorrectly quoted me. I said nothing about the holocaust!

I will never comment on that topic, ever.

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 4): Truth hurts. Just deal with it. Your ideologies are all the very reason America has suffered.

From both sides, from both sides, truth is what we need. The distortion of facts is beyond belief in politics today. I would hope that anyone with common sense would not swallow the line of either party without extreme skepticism. Unfortunatly, that is not the case in many instances on here.

Quoting Cpd (Reply 10): I think someone incorrectly quoted me. I said nothing about the holocaust! I will never comment on that topic, ever.

I don't know why it quoted you when I selected the writer of the comment.
Sorry Cpd. I didn't me to misquote you.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): The holocaust killed more than 6M people just because of their religion. The GOP did that too?

Alan Grayson said the following
"I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in America,"

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): I can't wait for Grayson to join the unemployed in November 2010.

He said he has been in the House for only 8 months. Are there really 2 year terms in the HR?

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 13): Are there really 2 year terms in the HR?

Yup 2 years in the House and 6 in the Senate.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): President Clinton had left the nation with a surplus

Incorrect, He was just projecting one through questionable accouning. There never was actually a surplus.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Grayson either needs to be put on something or have the dosage cut. Not sure which yet

Quoting L-188 (Reply 14): Which has nothing to do with the fact that Grayson either needs to be put on something or have the dosage cut. Not sure which yet

I look at it as one good insult, deserves another, tit for tat, all those things done so well in politics. One side started it and now it continues.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): When W came into office President Clinton had left the nation with a surplus and the debt was decreasing

That is simply untrue and no amount of book keeping will ever make it so. As long as SS taxes are shunted into the general fund with IOU's given to SS then there is no surplus and an unfunded liability continues to build.

Not surprisingly Grayson's electoral district has recently been placed in the "toss up" category from "lean Democrat" for 2010. Enjoy your one term in office, congressman.

I actually like watching these districts for their implosion value. They decided they didn't like Bush, so they went with the DNC's candidate of choice for their congressional seat. Turns out the DNC's guy, a Harvard-trained New York lawyer, isn't quite what they thought he would be. Shocker.

Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 17): actually like watching these districts for their implosion value. They decided they didn't like Bush, so they went with the DNC's candidate of choice for their congressional seat. Turns out the DNC's guy, a Harvard-trained New York lawyer, isn't quite what they thought he would be. Shocker.

I fail to see how that is a shocker, they are all liars and thieves, it is the nature of the beast. does anyone think a Republican will be different? Throw them out on a regular basis, that will improve the system. It is not rocket science.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 1): As to Grayson's point that the Republican health plan seems to be "don't get sick" and if you do "die quickly", I think he's uncomfortably close to the truth. Can he back that up? NO he cannot. He and his fellow Dems have not allowed any Repub inputs (amendments) into any of the various health bills. It is far from any truth. You can always be sure of a lie if a Dem is saying something.

Did you watch Rep. Cantor's comments at his healthcare town hall meeting?

Here's the summary of Cantor's suggestion for someone that has cancer and lost their health insurance due to losing a job:

1. Apply for government programs.

2. If you don't qualify, bankrupt yourself and your family.

3. If you are still sick, beg for charity.

4. If that doesn't work, die.

I guess Rep. Grayson forgot about the charity part of Cantor's health plan, so he figured if you are going to die, you might as well do it before bankrupting your family.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2): I think you blew that out of the water with the almost giddy tone of your posting.

Double   

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 3): I agree that his comments are out of line

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): BTW, I love it

Really? Didn't seem that you thought it was out of line. Infact, you loved it.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): I think they owe more than an apology

What about all the Dems that have continued in the wreckless spending? Catch my word continue there so you know I am not just saying its you'r liberal buddies. The Dems owe a huge appology for bailing out wreckless spending and lending, miss-management (hello! free enterprise not free government bailout cash!), and a health care we can not afford. What pisses me off more than anything is that my tax dollars will help fun abortions. I am heated!

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 20): The Dems owe a huge appology for bailing out wreckless spending and

Well, if that's the case then the republicans owe an even bigger apology for not regulating the "wreckless spending". Don't make it seem as though this economic issue started yesterday, and they Dems certainly didn't start it. And the fact is I did like what he said because it's about time, but obviously it's out of line and childish, but I agree with his statement, no matter how much out of line it is.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 21):

Re-read my post and you will see it all started out with the word "continued". Don't leave out important things.

By the way, the Republicans really can't do anything right now because of a total Democrat controlled Senate and House. Enjoy until 2010.

QXatFAT
Don't Tread On Me

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 22): By the way, the Republicans really can't do anything right now because of a total Democrat controlled Senate and House. Enjoy until 2010.

Again? What's in 2010? Anyway, you seem to not realize that the democrats have been pushing to be bi-partisan for the last 11 months now, and the republicans continue this stubborn childish routine of not wanting to get along with the democrats. It's kinda like how you see a mother and a child in walmart, the mother offers the child a certain candy, but the child doesn't want that one, so they throw themselves on floor and throw a temper tantrum. Then, if we do pass policies wthout their votes they'll say "Well, the Dems have all the votes and we have none, it's like a dictatorship where we have no say    . They do things without asking our opinions, Nazi communist socialist fascist regime Obama administration." and so on and so forth.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23):

Politics is something that should be studied in my honest opinion for ya buddy. Can you say liberally brainwashed?

Goodnight and adios with this topic

QXatFAT
Don't Tread On Me

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 24): Politics is something that should be studied in my honest opinion for ya buddy. Can you say liberally brainwashed?

Not in the least bit, I have a serious distaste for politics.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): When does America get an apology from the Dems for bankrupting the country and trying to turn us int scoialism? They have insulted America. When W came into office President Clinton had left the nation with a surplus and the debt was decreasing.

What surplus? That "surplus" was all done with fuzzy math, smoke amd mirrors, and tricky accounting. Then, after that, you may recall a "little incident" call 9/11 happened and threw everything planned out the window.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Who bankrupt the nation? Bush was in office for 8 years and what was the most significant domestic program implemented?

Probibly precription drug coverage. Not one I agreed with, and it isn't the best of bills, but it is something the Dems have talked about, but did nothing on since Medicare in 1965.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): People think the stimulus only happened under Obama. The first stimulus was in the fall of 2008 under Bush. The 2nd was proposed by the Bush administration and picked up by the Obama administration. Bailout of the banking system was under Bush. Bailout of the car industry was proposed under Bush and inacted under Obama.

How about getting the facts right before you start saying simething that is only partially true. Yes, Bush did push for and got the first stimulus package in Oct. 2008, and Obama voted for it from his Senate seat, and attended the meeting with Bush and McCain to draw up the plan. The second package was changed totally by the Obama team and was nothing like the second Bush plan. Bush did bail out the banks, and Obama was at that meeting, too, and voted for it in the Senate. Bush disaproved the request to bail out the car industry, he thought it was a bad idea, and he was right. Obama got with the UAW and pushed through the auto bailout in Feb. 2009, after Bush was out of office.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): If a republican proposes it...its okay If a democrat proposes it...its socialism.

No, both proposals were bad ideas.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Obama has been in for 9 months. That is less than 1/4 of a term.

We agree on something, actually it works out to be about 1/5 (20%) of his term.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Quoting Cpd (Reply 6): The holocaust killed more than 6M people just because of their religion. The GOP did that too? Did someone not read the quote? He did not accuse the GOP of atrocities in WWII. He was referring to the fact that 40,000 Americans die every year due to a lack of health insurance and access to affordable health care. He considered this a holocaust. The use of an "a" versus "the" makes a big difference.

Nice play on words, but everyone knows waht he said, and ment. BTW, where exactly is this 40,000 Americans dieing from no health care come from? It is a made up number. All US Hospitals are required by law to provide free life saving medical procedures.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): 1) Undermining the democratic system by claiming that Obama was not lawfully elected

I know no one who says he did not win the election by getting the most electorical votes.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): 2) Supporting the birthers even though evidence is solid that he was born in America.

The short form is not "soild evidence".

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): 3) Calling for open overthrow of the US government instead of using the system set up 233 years ago.

Who is doing that? Those opposed to Obama's or Congress's ideas will simply wait for the next election, in 13 months.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): 4) Scaring people by using terms most americans actually don't understand. "Socialism"...most people do not understand that this is NOT and economic nor political system but a sub-system for taking care of people in a country. Japan is a free market, democracy with a socialist sub-system.

Socilaism CAN BE a sub system, but not the one as being proposed in the US, it will become the political system of the future here.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): 5) Claiming "death panels" and other things for the simple reason of derailing the system, creating fear and undermining the truth.

Then why do "buearucrats" get to review and decide how much medical care a person will receive? It is still in HR-3200.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): The GOP doesn't like that they lost the last Presidential election. They don't like that they lost congress.

Well, I agree with you on that. Had it been the other way around, it would be the Dems crying in their soup. That is a political reality here in the US.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Was Grayson wrong? As far as I can tell....no. 40,000 Americans die every year due to a lack of affordable health care.

I think he is, where is this 40,000 deaths coming from? Where are the statistics? Who put together this number? Why haven't we heard much about this before? I think he just made it up.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): The GOP plan is more private, which means don't get sick and don't have preconditions. No GOP congress person is against cutting their own public health care. But certainly are against it for everyone else.

Let me correct you, Almost no one in Congress (all Dems and most Repubs) wants to give up their plan for any version of what they want for the rest of us. However, there was one Republican Congressman who did propose this as an amendment, it lost, along party lines in committee Dems against it, Repubs for it).

Quoting Cpd (Reply 10): Woah! I think someone incorrectly quoted me. I said nothing about the holocaust! I will never comment on that topic, ever.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12): I don't know why it quoted you when I selected the writer of the comment. Sorry Cpd. I didn't me to misquote you. Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7): The holocaust killed more than 6M people just because of their religion. The GOP did that too?

Correct, I said it. I don't know why but the a.net servers have done this many times in the past.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12): Alan Grayson said the following "I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in America,"

Then why didn't the Dems do it in 1992, when Hillery wanted it, and they were still the majority party until 1993? Then he would not have had to "aploigize" to us.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 18): I fail to see how that is a shocker, they are all liars and thieves,

You and I agree on this, my friend, it is really both parties, not one or the other.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter): After months of name calling from the GOP and no answers, somebody from the dems finally fired back.

You mean, someone from the DNC swung at a pitch in the dirt? Yeah, that's something to be proud of.  

I don't care what side you're on. Be polite and professional.

Mods please note - this thread is insulting to Neanderthals.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 28): Mods please note - this thread is insulting to Neanderthals.

Yeah, we don't like this one bit!  

Ha ha! People forget us Neanderthals can be a bit sensitive  

Quoting Comorin (Reply 28): Mods please note - this thread is insulting to Neanderthals.

LMAO!

/thread


 

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 23): Again? What's in 2010? Anyway, you seem to not realize that the democrats have been pushing to be bi-partisan for the last 11 months now, and the republicans continue this stubborn childish routine of not wanting to get along with the democrats.

Come on, seriously. The Dems aren't getting anything done because of Republican whining? You seem to forget that there's

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 22): a total Democrat controlled Senate and House.

They could railroad this through and the only reason they're NOT is because they know it would spell disaster for their re-election. There's enough disagreement in the Democratic party alone that is causing the current stalemate.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 25): Not in the least bit, I have a serious distaste for politics.

Well there's a hypocritical statement if I've ever seen one.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 32): They could railroad this through and the only reason they're NOT is because they know it would spell disaster for their re-election. There's enough disagreement in the Democratic party alone that is causing the current stalemate.

This is the basic difference between Dems and Republicans that the right does not understand: The Democrats want to come to a consensus within the party and make sure everyone is heard. The Republicans just want to do what an elite few and if anyone within the party opposes it, they are ostricized and called all kinds of (sometimes nasty) names.

Also, I find it fascinating that if anyone on the right says anything negative about any Democrats, they are freedom loving Americans doing the right thing and should be given medals and accolades, but if anyone from any other part of the political spectrum says even one negative word about any Republican party member for any reason, that person speaking needs to be tried for treason and are un-American and must be a socialist/communist/nazi/devil person and should be shut up immediatly if not sooner.

Freedom of speech runs both ways. You find it patriotic that one person shouts "liar" at the president? Then, you should also find it partiotic when someone calls the GOP "neanderthals." Don't like it? I am sure China or Venezuela will welcome you with open arms!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 26): I think he is, where is this 40,000 deaths coming from? Where are the statistics? Who put together this number? Why haven't we heard much about this before? I think he just made it up.

Here's the citation - unfortunately, you'll probably have to have a subscription to access the online journal.

Andrew P. Wilper, Steffie Woolhandler, Karen E. Lasser, Danny McCormick, David H. Bor, and David U. Himmelstein
Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults
Am J Public Health, Sep 2009; doi:10.2105/AJPH.2008.157685

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27): You mean, someone from the DNC swung at a pitch in the dirt? Yeah, that's something to be proud of. I don't care what side you're on. Be polite and professional.

Oh ok I get it. So when the rpublicans say something, they're right on the ball. But when a demcrat says it, they're not being polit or proffesional.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 32): Come on, seriously. The Dems aren't getting anything done because of Republican whining? You seem to forget that there's

Dude, read my post about the Dems wanting to be bi-partisan and working together with the republicans and not just shoving reform after reform out there, because they can do that, but they want to be bi-partisan. And you know that if the Dems did start to push reforms without consent from the republicans, then we'll start to hear talk of dictatorial gov'ts and what not, you know it.

I can only imagine how differnt this thread would be if this comment came from the GOP towards the dems. Would the dems call it a racist statement if someone from the GOP said it? I personally feel that they would classify it that way and dont think it is an appropriate comment from anyone regardless of party affiliation.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 35): Dude, read my post about the Dems wanting to be bi-partisan and working together with the republicans and not just shoving reform after reform out there, because they can do that, but they want to be bi-partisan. And you know that if the Dems did start to push reforms without consent from the republicans, then we'll start to hear talk of dictatorial gov'ts and what not, you know it.

No, they want a job after November 2010 - that is why nothing is moving. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They want this socialistic plan to go through; but they know they will be voted out of office, because a strong majority of American's oppose these health care bills.

Forget public option.... Tort reform, tax incentives for buying your own insurance, open the insurance game to go across state lines -- we are and have been proposing many free market alternatives to the public option, but the liberals and Democrats have been voting them down. This means one thing, they really do want the socialistic system!

We want reform, but we don't want a reform of the system to socialism!

The Democrats have no desire to be bi-partisan, if they did, they wouldn't have voted down and trodden on all of our free-market suggestions to reform.

Quoting Heavymx1 (Reply 36): I can only imagine how differnt this thread would be if this comment came from the GOP towards the dems

You don't have to imagine it, just do a websearch for Joe Wilson.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 37): No, they want a job after November 2010 - that is why nothing is moving. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They want this socialistic plan to go through; but they know they will be voted out of office, because a strong majority of American's oppose these health care bills. Forget public option.... Tort reform, tax incentives for buying your own insurance, open the insurance game to go across state lines -- we are and have been proposing many free market alternatives to the public option, but the liberals and Democrats have been voting them down. This means one thing, they really do want the socialistic system! We want reform, but we don't want a reform of the system to socialism! The Democrats have no desire to be bi-partisan, if they did, they wouldn't have voted down and trodden on all of our free-market suggestions to reform.

Man what are you talking about? First off, new polls show that a majority of americans want the public option. Second, why should the Democrats listen to the republicans? They have been in office for 8 years and have done NOTHING but destroy the country. Now the Dems propose something and the republicans say NO try our plan? that is rediculous. If the Dems propose something, the republicans say no, but for some reason we should accept their proposals though. Please!            

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39): Man what are you talking about? First off, new polls show that a majority of americans want the public option. Second, why should the Democrats listen to the republicans? They have been in office for 8 years and have done NOTHING but destroy the country. Now the Dems propose something and the republicans say NO try our plan? that is rediculous. If the Dems propose something, the republicans say no, but for some reason we should accept their proposals though. Please! no no no no

Because your plan involves fundamentally changing the system - and costs trillions. Our proposals cost little to nothing, and don't fundamentally change the system to socialism. Wouldn't it be wiser to try the options that are free before spending a trillion+ dollars on a socialism plan?

I would like to see these polls, and I would also question the credibility. Every single credible poll I have seen indicates America is continually gaining strength in opposing the public option. Your All-mighty Liberal Congressmen know this, and that is why it is not passing, because they know they will get voted out and be without a job next election if they pass it....

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27): I don't care what side you're on. Be polite and professional.

Good words Doc but I guess once you put on a suit and head to the capital, all "politeness" is left at home. Sad.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 35): the Dems wanting to be bi-partisan and working together with the republicans and not just shoving reform after reform out there

Really? I think the Dems haven't passed it because they are afraid of their constituents as seen in town halls (by Dems and Republicans). When the people speak collectively, we are heard, but only for a short time...pockets still need to be filled with cash.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39): destroy the country.

And taxing you and your future kids to death isnt destroying a country? Give me a break. As stated before, I think you need to read up on how goverment actually works and how it affects the people. You said your not interested in politics but yet you start threads about it a lot lately.

Try reading this article and the downward opinion on government health care. Gives you the numbers right there and the article is from September 30th. Is that close enough for validity?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123332/Ma...ance-Personal-Responsibility.aspx#

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 40): and costs trillions. Our proposals cost little to nothing, and don't fundamentally change the system to socialism.

Well why didn't the GOP change it the last 8 YEARS in office instead of spending their time creating enimies all over the world? Why didn't they propose this? The gov't spent the last 8 years worrying about this axis of evil and all that other stuff, when we needed to worry about us more. We needed to help our own country but nooooooo, the GOP and their faithful gun toting friends decided that killing 6000 coalition troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans was more important than making sure our own country is well maintained. Way to go guys, way to go      

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 37): Tort reform, tax incentives for buying your own insurance, open the insurance game to go across state lines -- we are and have been proposing many free market alternatives to the public option, but the liberals and Democrats have been voting them down.

The more I think about it, the worse that option sounds. Think about it: that option does nothing for the millions that are working but not insured right now. That simply helps the insurance companies and those that make a lot of money. We do need an "evil" and "nasty" and "horrible" socialist style proposal that helps those who CAN help themselves, but can not AFFORD to help themselves. If that is socialism, then I am a socialist! Let's help those who help themselves.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 43): The more I think about it, the worse that option sounds. Think about it: that option does nothing for the millions that are working but not insured right now. That simply helps the insurance companies and those that make a lot of money.

How would enacting tort reform to reduce the cost of healthcare only benefit the insurance companies? How exactly would eliminating state boundaries to competition help insurance companies? I know a lot of Democrats have a severe problem with the concept of competition, as it highlights the weak, but that argument will require a LOT of spinning to make state boundaries look something like benefits the consumer.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 44): How exactly would eliminating state boundaries to competition help insurance companies?

Why are all my credit cards issued from either Delaware or South Dakota? It's done because those states don't cap the interest rate, allowing credit card companies greater ability to screw and exploit their customers.

Do you really want your health insurance provider taking this page from the credit card issuers playbook?

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9): Japan is a free market, democracy with a socialist sub-system.

And that socialist sub-system is acting as a huge anchor on Japan's economy, which has been in recession or near recession for 20 years now.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 42): Well why didn't the GOP change it the last 8 YEARS in office instead of spending their time creating enimies all over the world?

You might have been too young to remember, but the world didn't like us before Bush.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 45): It's done because those states don't cap the interest rate

As they shouldn't. If you don't want high interest rates you have a good choice, don't take the cards.

Oh, and the reality is that state "regulation" drove companies away from several states to the point that, if there were no jurisdictions like Delaware to fall back on, you simply wouldn't be able to get any credit cards in some states. But let's not allow facts to get in the way of a good discussion.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 45): Do you really want your health insurance provider taking this page from the credit card issuers playbook?

Who said anything about reverting to the worst state regulation? Enact Federal regulation of insurance companies, as exists for banks, and allow them to offer insurance wherever they want. In the meantime fire thousands of worthless state regulators and use that money to help provide health insurance for lower income people.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 47): Who said anything about reverting to the worst state regulation? Enact Federal regulation of insurance companies, as exists for banks, and allow them to offer insurance wherever they want.

Do you really think the GOP is interested in increasing federal regulations and oversight for the health insurance industry? They've been fighting tooth and nail for years to get the federal government less and less involved in healthcare.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 47): As they shouldn't. If you don't want high interest rates you have a good choice, don't take the cards.

Schools in this country does a terrible job of teaching financial literacy. For too Americans, a credit card agreement is gibberish sprinkled with nonsense. Credit card companies know this and take full advantage of it.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 35): Oh ok I get it. So when the rpublicans say something, they're right on the ball. But when a demcrat says it, they're not being polit or proffesional.

Show me a single post anywhere on A.net where I have defended Republican behavior.

I think the Republican party is the most god-awful, messed-up organization. Religious fundamentalists with fiscal conservatives? They don't have a valid platform and they are clueless as to how to analyze data or facts. They simply emote, get people to emote with them, and garner votes that way.

But I expect EVERYONE to be polite and professional. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR UNPROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR, no matter what colors you wear.