RussianJet
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Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:19 pm

Over 130 people are already reported to have died as a result of the twin bomb attack near the Ministry of Justice in Baghdad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8324546.stm

In addition to the fatalities, a whopping 520 people are reportedly injured by the attacks.

This has been described as the most deadly attack since August 2007.

Is there really any hope so long as people are to this day still intent on wreaking such havoc and carrying out such appalling acts of violence?

This is certainly a big reminder that this mess is very far from over. Stability for Iraq seems a very, very long way off right now.
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tk747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:58 pm

This is really sad, I can't believe what a mess Iraq has turned into, I bet the Iraqi's are really thankful to the Americans for their "new, free and democratic" country.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:11 pm



Quoting Tk747 (Reply 1):
This is really sad, I can't believe what a mess Iraq has turned into, I bet the Iraqi's are really thankful to the Americans for their "new, free and democratic" country.

Of course there are some who are of the opinion that it is up to the Iraqi people to do the right thing with their newly-gained 'freedom' and that it is their own fault if they choose violence and chaos. Others, more correctly in my opinion, say that a fool could have predicted this mess even before our western interference, and that the result of our meddling is a free hand for terrorists and malcontents and little choice but living in fear for the vast majority of the population at large, who in reality have no control over anything much that has happened to them over the last decade.
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baroque
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:19 pm



Quoting Tk747 (Reply 1):
This is really sad, I can't believe what a mess Iraq has turned into, I bet the Iraqi's are really thankful to the Americans for their "new, free and democratic" country.

Do not they also have Aus and the UK to thank too, I am sure they will not when it comes to remembering. Although it seems BP got the concession on Rumailia, although there is a certain logic about that since a precursor of BP found the thing in the first place.

Some logic to the attack on the Min Justice and I wonder which Prov Govt office they also attached - might be a hint as to the cause in that selection.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:23 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 3):
Do not they also have Aus and the UK to thank too

They certainly do. I for one feel totally ashamed for the UK's participation in this entire folly.
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tk747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:26 pm

Pretty ashamed at Australia for participating in this war as well.

[Edited 2009-10-25 08:27:45 by tk747]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:45 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):

Is there really any hope...?

No. We shouldn't have gone in and we can't fix it. So we need to leave. If we had any decency, we'd open our country to any Iraqi immigrant who wanted to come live here, but we don't have any decency, so we won't.
-Doc Lightning-

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RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
So we need to leave.

In fairness, we kind of are leaving now - but it's all rather too late, the damage is well and truly done.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:34 pm

sickening.

why does this continue?

Car Bombs Kill Dozens in Baghdad - Don't Worry, You Can Still Watch FOOTBALL TODAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jres6Tzc_Ak&feature=player_embedded

Suicide bombings kill dozens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuPByYEuM_s&feature=player_embedded

BAGHDAD BLAST TOLL (PASSES 130) 25/10/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RifAe3jsyFM&feature=player_embedded

Two Bombs Rock Baghdad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_Cewmg8Ic&feature=player_embedded

Death toll past 100 in Baghdad bombings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GShyj2parA&feature=player_embedded

Iraq? Afghanistan?
What next?
Iran?

What is the use?

STOP THE WAR!!!!!!!!
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Dreadnought
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:26 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):
What is the use?

STOP THE WAR!!!!!!!!

Aaaaagggghhhh!!! The idiocy of this statement is leaping off the screen and burrowing into my brain!!!

Reality-check: WE are not the ones at war. Most of our troops are holed up in barracks out in the countryside, and we have left the cities. The only ones at war are the islamo-fascists who are setting off the damned bombs!

So why don't you complain to them? I'm sure they will be very reasonable  Yeah sure
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RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:42 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The only ones at war are the islamo-fascists who are setting off the damned bombs!

That's certainly the case now, but it was us who foolishly created the perfect conditions for them to wage their campaigns of horror by rushing in and crying 'freedom'.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:50 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
That's certainly the case now, but it was us who foolishly created the perfect conditions for them to wage their campaigns of horror by rushing in and crying 'freedom'.

You might not understand this, as your country was one of those that fortunately became a more or less free country without a lot of violence. That is not always the case. Sometimes you have to fight for it. Or are you of the opinion that nothing is worth fighting about?
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RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
as your country was one of those that fortunately became a more or less free country without a lot of violence

I am British.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
Or are you of the opinion that nothing is worth fighting about?

Of course I am not, but this certainly wasn't worth it. It's a total disaster. We've only succeeded in creating a mess - that wasn't worth the life of even one single British soldier.
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TheCol
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:36 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 2):
little choice but living in fear for the vast majority of the population at large, who in reality have no control over anything much that has happened to them over the last decade.

That's what the extremists want them to believe. Unfortunately the majority of the Iraqi population don't have the slightest clue about real democracy. It would take decades to break the cycle of violence and oppression in that country. The same goes for Afghanistan.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:40 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 13):
That's what the extremists want them to believe

It's pretty true so long as people can't queue to vote for fear of suicide bombers or shootings isn't it? Not to mention attacks like today's. I see your point, but there's no point in denying that the insurgency is actually achieving some of its aims rather than being all bluster. The place is highly unstable.

[Edited 2009-10-25 13:53:05]
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UAL747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:47 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Reality-check: WE are not the ones at war. Most of our troops are holed up in barracks out in the countryside, and we have left the cities. The only ones at war are the islamo-fascists who are setting off the damned bombs!

Last time I checked we were still at war. Iraq was far more stable with Saddam in power than it was after we came in. The bloodshed that has happened in that country after we came in is far greater than anything Saddam did. And the sad fact is, we took that stability (albeit under a dictatorial regime), and crapped all over it. That country will not be stable for a long time to come. Al-Qaeda and other terrorists organizations did not come into Iraq into we set foot in that country. This is widely known and accepted. We opened up a theater, and for god knows what..

This is our generations Vietnam. No one knows why we are there anymore, and we need to tuck our tails and exit stage left, throw a party and call it Mission Accomplished 2010 or something.

UAL
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socalfive
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:39 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
No. We shouldn't have gone in and we can't fix it. So we need to leave. If we had any decency, we'd open our country to any Iraqi immigrant who wanted to come live here, but we don't have any decency, so we won't.

I agree totally, but this thing is all about money and control and until it is no longer profitable, we'll still be there, what's killing me though is the troops of every country laying down there life in the name of patriotism being paid peanuts right alongside all the Blackwater maniac goon squads that are being paid 100k + that have almost no accountability.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:01 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
No. We shouldn't have gone in and we can't fix it

We could but Obama promised codepink he would withdraw which just made the radicals and insurgents wait and now will just start killing again. Besides who cares, the DNC doesn't want to be the worlds policeman. Now it's just a matter of time before all hell breaks loose and Israel and radical Islam go at it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Aaaaagggghhhh!!! The idiocy of this statement is leaping off the screen and burrowing into my brain!!!

Mine too but consider the source. Most of Europe could care less because they don't really care what happens to Israel either. So it's just as easy to say stop the war and let the radicals wipe them off the map.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
but there's no point in denying that the insurgency is actually achieving some of its aims rather than being all bluster. The place is highly unstable.

Well we opened the floodgates by having our poor excuse for a president play ball with these radicals and tell them we are going to talk and not do what Bush did so what do you expect? It was all over at that point and now Netanyahu will have to clean up the mess if this gets worse which it's well on it's way since we have cut and run.
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ual777
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:53 am



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 15):

This is our generations Vietnam. No one knows why we are there anymore, and we need to tuck our tails and exit stage left, throw a party and call it Mission Accomplished 2010 or something.

Speak for yourself. This is MY generation's finest hour and we know EXACTLY why we are still there. I joined the Corps in '04 and I lost two friends when the USMC cleaned out Fallujah. I was medically discharged and I am now trying to find a waiver to go to Army or Marine OCS.

We have this thing 90% won. We were on the VERGE of losing it too. Wanting to pull out know after the roots of success have finally taken hold is heinous.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:26 am



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 16):
what's killing me though is the troops of every country laying down there life in the name of patriotism being paid peanuts right alongside all the Blackwater maniac goon squads that are being paid 100k +

Just a point of order... I'll have made a little over $100K this year while deployed. Hell, even your average E4 is gonna come home with anywhere between $40-$60K.

So I'm wondering, when did that become "peanuts" for pay?
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stasisLAX
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:44 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
WE are not the ones at war. Most of our troops are holed up in barracks out in the countryside, and we have left the cities. The only ones at war are the islamo-fascists who are setting off the damned bombs!

This is a civil war within Iraq - the Iraqis need to settle it themselves.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:20 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
You might not understand this, as your country was one of those that fortunately became a more or less free country without a lot of violence. That is not always the case. Sometimes you have to fight for it.

I still don't get why apologists for the whole campaign continue to live the delusion that a destabilized, democratic Iraq is better for our interests. Can you please tell me how an Iran-friendly Shi'a leadership at odds with neighboring oil nations and Israel, democratically elected or not, are a long-term benefit to our interests? It's automatically better than the previous tyrant because they were voted in? What if, on balance, in the end they stand for more or less the same things? How does that scan? Sanctions, military barriers and seizure of funds severely marginalized Saddam's reach, but he retained enough power to maintain relative stability - the evidence is there.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
We could but Obama promised codepink he would withdraw which just made the radicals and insurgents wait and now will just start killing again.

The withdrawal and SOFA plans date to the previous adminstration. Either way insurgent resurgence was a foregone conclusion - why don't you get that? That's what happens when you artificially destabilize a country.
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UAL747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:19 am



Quoting UAL777 (Reply 18):
Speak for yourself. This is MY generation's finest hour and we know EXACTLY why we are still there. I joined the Corps in '04 and I lost two friends when the USMC cleaned out Fallujah.

I'm very sorry for your loss and please do not feel I have any disrespect for you or any other service member. You have my full support. However, I do not support the ideologies that put you or your friends in Iraq and the countless civilian and non-civilian deaths that could have been prevented.

I honestly know WHY we are there, it's because we have to be...now..., but the justification for this war was a lie and because of that, we are just fighting for nothing. We HAVE to be there because we created the chaos, if we leave, all hell will break loose, and that is our own doing, not anyone else's. Again no disrespect, but I sincerely doubt that this is going to go down as one of the finest hours of a generation.

UAL
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Dreadnought
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:56 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
I am British.

Sorry. I saw the Kazakh flag.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 21):
I still don't get why apologists for the whole campaign continue to live the delusion that a destabilized, democratic Iraq is better for our interests.

Well I still don't get why opponents for the whole campaign continue to live the delusion that an Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be better for our interests.
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RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:47 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
Well we opened the floodgates by having our poor excuse for a president play ball with these radicals and tell them we are going to talk and not do what Bush did so what do you expect?

Are you serious? Obama is in office five minutes and the whole thing suddenly becomes his fault? That's utterly laughable. This bloody insurgency was in full effect years and years before Obama became president.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 18):
We have this thing 90% won.

Obviously we don't.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 20):
This is a civil war within Iraq - the Iraqis need to settle it themselves.

A civil war that we triggered. It is out fault.
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:57 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):

Well I still don't get why opponents for the whole campaign continue to live the delusion that an Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be better for our interests.

Sorry the burden is on you to defend your delusion seeing as the points I bring up are consistently unchallenged, including the most recent post.

In hindsight to all that has transpired, on balance, there's less to support the notion that Saddam's Iraq would have continued counter to our interests any worse than the current situation. We'll never know now but it's worth pointing out Tehran's recent antics have accelerated since his departure. Worse, Saddam's disdain for Shari'a is now replaced by...well who knows? The future could very well bring anything. We'll also never know now but it's worth pointing out that Hezbollah has been increasingly marginalized not by the lack of funding from Saddam but several years of rapidly changing political will in Lebanon. And I dare say whereas before the destination of choice for young men from the Gulf region with histrionic anger in their hearts may have been South Asia, there is now another in Iraq. That would have been incomprehensible before given Saddam's brutal suppression of dissent.

All of those facts lead a logical mind in the direction of concluding that the current status of Iraq does not provide stability any more or less complimentary to our interests at this point in time.

[Edited 2009-10-26 00:59:47]
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NIKV69
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:57 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Obama is in office five minutes

This argument is weak pal, been a bit longer than 5 minutes. You going to keep saying this after next year too? He has been in office long enough and he has made our enemies stronger by waffling, and being weak and passive. Even the French president laughed at him when he showed his lack of spine with Iran. Now that is funny!

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
That's utterly laughable. This bloody insurgency was in full effect years and years before Obama became president

Not as laughable as the frequency and level of violence has been increasing and will continue to do so as they take advantage of the weak individual we have in the white house. in fact most people will not feel like laughing. It's pretty sad. They watched the campaign and knew Obama would just cave in like a cheap suit in the name of getting votes. Well I hope you and he are proud. These people's blood are on his hands. For things seemed to be improving before he came along and made it clear he would cut and run.
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RussianJet
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
This argument is weak pal, been a bit longer than 5 minutes.

Compared to the amount of time this crap has been going on, it may as well be a lot less than five minutes. What is totally weak is trying to shift the blame for this ridiculous mess in such an obviously flawed and transparently risible manner.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
Well I hope you and he are proud

Proud of the fact he's taking troops out of Iraq? You bet.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
These people's blood are on his hands

Complete tosh. Don't pretend like we don't know where all of this really started and who is to blame. You can't just re-write the last ten years now there's someone you don't like in the White House.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
and knew Obama would just cave in like a cheap suit in the name of getting votes

Votes from people who know that this whole thing was a massive mistake and a disgrace to what should be a great country that sets a good example to the world? Good.
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UAL747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:43 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
. They watched the campaign and knew Obama would just cave in like a cheap suit in the name of getting votes. Well I hope you and he are proud. These people's blood are on his hands.

Revisionist History at it's finest my friend!
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Arrow
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:38 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
These people's blood are on his hands. For things seemed to be improving before he came along and made it clear he would cut and run.

Wow. That's breathtaking. If the blood of all those killed in Iraq since January is on Obama's hands, what does that say about the blood of the tens of thousands killed between 2003 and January 2009? Including 4000+ US soldiers?

The revisionist history underway since Dubya and Darth Vader left office will leave the average historian's head spinning. A war is launched on three premises: WMDs, links to Al Qaeda, and a fevered hunt for uranium. All three prove bogus, and all three were in serious doubt before any US marine set foot in Iraq. Yet here we are 9 months into a new presidency and somehow the mess created over the last six years is his fault?

This idea that "things were improving until Obama came along" is pure BS. Things have been "under control, sort of" since the surge because the bad guys were successfully bought off and switched their allegiance out of expedience. The insurgency is now waiting patiently for that day when US troop levels sink low enough that they can launch their mayhem with only Iraqis troops to deal with. And remember, there was agreement on both sides of the political spectrum in the US that US troops would begin a gradual withdrawal -- and they already have.

These latest hits are specifically aimed at destabilizing Maliki in the run-up to the next election, and they would have done it regardless of who is in the White House and what his announced intentions are. The hawks think the surge was successful because, on the surface, it was; violence went down. But once you remove the US troops and leave the Iraqis to themselves, that house of cards will crumble.

What I find fascinating about this whole misadventure is the fact that the US is now propping up an Iraqi government that is culturally and philosophically aligned with -- Iran!!! If Maliki thinks he won't survive an insurgency (minus sufficient US troop support), guess where he'll go for help.
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DocLightning
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:11 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):

You might not understand this, as your country was one of those that fortunately became a more or less free country without a lot of violence. That is not always the case. Sometimes you have to fight for it. Or are you of the opinion that nothing is worth fighting about?

Our countries weren't full of religious wackos at the time we won our independence.

Do you know what will bring peace to Iraq? Genocide.

Now, who's volunteering to run that program?
-Doc Lightning-

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victrola
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:14 pm

It seems to me that Iraq is not a country that could be ruled by anything but a brutal dictatorship. You have at least 3 major groups, Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds, plus a number of other minority groups that have been at each others throats for centuries. The only thing that kept the place stable was the brutal Sunni dictatorship under Sadaam Hussein.

The removal of Hussein merly exchanged one set of problems for another set. I'm not sure which set of problems was worse.

Maybe the U.S. should just pull out. My guess for that scenario is that there would be a civil war followed by the eventual establishment of a Shia dictatorship. Would this be so bad? I don't know.

The U.S. may have the military power to quell much of the violence. However are we supposed to stay there forever? I am sure that all sides in the conflict in Iraq, for whom the outcome of the situation is a matter of life or death, have the patience to outlast the United States.
 
dxing
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:22 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Our countries weren't full of religious wackos at the time we won our independence.

Salem ring a bell? And of course all the colonies believed that all men were created equal by their creator, just that those with black skin didn't really count did they? And American Indians were just there for the shooting.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 31):
The removal of Hussein merly exchanged one set of problems for another set. I'm not sure which set of problems was worse.

The removal of Saddam Hussien took the violence that was already happening on an almost daily basis in the dark, supressed by a dictator, and brought it out into the light. Given the amount of mass graves that have been unearthed and the stories that Iraqis tell of the fear of living under Hussien is just as comparable as their fear of AQ.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
This has been described as the most deadly attack since August 2007.

Considering that bombings were an almost weekly experience prior to the surge, 2 years between large attacks would seem to be an improvement. I guess we should have given up the ship when Hitlers V-1 and V-2 weapons started falling on London and environs when those folks thought that D-Day would have eliminated that kind of threat no?
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AGM100
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:45 pm

What ?!! Muslims using Suicide Bombs against each other again ..!! Wow . Whats next ...

Muslims Kill more Muslims in a month in Iraq , Afghan , Somalia , Darfur , than Israel has killed in 10 years in Palestine .... amazing . They are having a Jihad against themselves....
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:17 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
The removal of Saddam Hussien took the violence that was already happening on an almost daily basis in the dark, supressed by a dictator, and brought it out into the light.

BFD. Apparently nobody still in support of this misadventure is at all concerned about the larger questions now posed by Iraq, not the least of which is what happens with further development of the Iranian relationship. Hate to repeat myself, but it would really be ironic if a more confident Maliki government were to join up with Tehran and point swords at Israel with all the military hardware and training they've acquired from us in the last two years. Team Bush said history would be the judge - we will very well see what kind of stability they wrought. What's the old saying about planting demon seeds??
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NIKV69
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:19 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 27):
What is totally weak is trying to shift the blame for this ridiculous mess in such an obviously flawed and transparently risible manner.

Fact is no matter whether you agree or not about going into Iraq things were changing for the better until Obama promised the far left he would withdraw and now things have degenrated and more people will die in the name of winning an election.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 27):
Complete tosh. Don't pretend like we don't know where all of this really started and who is to blame. You can't just re-write the last ten years now there's someone you don't like in the White House.

So I guess it was our fault that Saddam gassed people too huh? Oh I forgot not our problem right?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 27):
Votes from people who know that this whole thing was a massive mistake and a disgrace to what should be a great country that sets a good example to the world? Good

Yea I noticed how Saddam and the rest of radical Islam were taking that example. You either don't understand what is going on there or don't care.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 10536
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:30 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35):

Fact is no matter whether you agree or not about going into Iraq things were changing for the better until Obama promised the far left he would withdraw

Once again Mr. Revisionist, the withdrawal timetable was established by the previous President, with provisions for cutting the final withdrawal date should certain political developments occur. Read the actual document if you can be bothered:

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...s/releases/2008/11/20081127-2.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35):
Oh I forgot not our problem right?

No, not really. Are you suggesting it's our responsibility to reverse the course of 2,000 years of troubled history in a particular country??
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:32 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
BFD.

In fact it is a big deal. Hussien was able to run rampant with no fear of immediate retribution. Not so with these attacks. The people responsible know they are being hunted and when caught, will face certain punishment.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Hate to repeat myself, but it would really be ironic if a more confident Maliki government were to join up with Tehran and point swords at Israel with all the military hardware and training they've acquired from us in the last two years

Well correct my memory if it is wrong but wasn't Hussien paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel money for their loss thus encouraging the practice?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Team Bush said history would be the judge - we will very well see what kind of stability they wrought.

And it's going to take a lot longer than 8 months out of office for that to be decided.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
RussianJet
Topic Author
Posts: 5983
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:03 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
Considering that bombings were an almost weekly experience prior to the surge, 2 years between large attacks would seem to be an improvement. I guess we should have given up the ship when Hitlers V-1 and V-2 weapons started falling on London and environs when those folks thought that D-Day would have eliminated that kind of threat no?

Mmmmm yeah, I think we've been through this before, no? The Iraqi situation is not World War 2, never was, and never will be - and I for one will never ever entertain any attempt at ill-founded comparison between the two.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35):
Fact is no matter whether you agree or not about going into Iraq things were changing for the better until Obama promised the far left he would withdraw and now things have degenrated and more people will die in the name of winning an election.

Far from fact - actually a very intensely disputed assertion.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 35):
So I guess it was our fault that Saddam gassed people too huh? Oh I forgot not our problem right?

Specious reasoning at its best. Saddan gassed people so there was no option but to invade, right? Nothing like a bit of consistency in foreign affairs.
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:26 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 37):

Well correct my memory if it is wrong but wasn't Hussien paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel money for their loss thus encouraging the practice?

Yes - nothing the Syrians, Iran, and who knows else haven't been doing. I'd say having full Iraqi backing of Iran's recent activities is far worse given the obvious conflict of interest there with all we've given their ungrateful sorry you-know-whats. And even so, paying terrorists active in Israel is not a direct impact on our interests, unless you are one of those who believes Israel should permanently be on the US teat.

Quoting DXing (Reply 37):
In fact it is a big deal. Hussien was able to run rampant with no fear of immediate retribution.

One tyrant among many - not our responsibility to undo those things is it? Containment, as prescribed by Mr. Cheney when he was originally SecDef, was keeping him more or less in line where the region is concerned. What happens within his own borders is another thing entirely - and as many analysts have pointed out - somewhat expected given Iraqi history.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:48 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 38):
The Iraqi situation is not World War 2, never was, and never will be - and I for one will never ever entertain any attempt at ill-founded comparison between the two.

You don't have too, but that does not make the comparison any less valid.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):
And even so, paying terrorists active in Israel is not a direct impact on our interests, unless you are one of those who believes Israel should permanently be on the US teat.

You are the one who brought Israel into the argument. To now say, well paying suicide bombers familes has nothing to do with us is just a little disingenuous.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):
One tyrant among many - not our responsibility to undo those things is it?

Unless that tyrant has shown the ability, and the incentive, to use weapons far more dangerous than ordinary bombs as well as pay people (those pesky suicide bombers in Israel come to mind) to do his dirty work.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):
Containment,

Was proven to be useless on 9/11. No, Saddam Hussien had nothing to do with it but the attack proved that the oceans on both our coasts no longer protected us from madmen intent on doing us harm.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13052
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:35 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 38):
Far from fact - actually a very intensely disputed assertion.

Only because you refuse to see it because you hate the GOP and Bush so much but fact things were getting better. Until of course Obama had to cater to the far left anti-war throw backs from the 60's who hate the GOP and any sort or war. Even if it means trying to stop evil dicators and people who just believe in killing if they don't get their way. Kind of like Bill Ayers who was nice enough to plant bombs that would go off when nobody was around. Except these people don't care if people die.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 38):
Saddan gassed people so there was no option but to invade, right? Nothing like a bit of consistency in foreign affairs.

Well you are naive enough to believe that radical Islam can be reasoned with. Which is a fantasy. If you are Jewish, female or believe in thinking for yourself your wrong and risk death. Can't wait to see how Obama can talk with those guys. Should be interesting.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:47 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 40):
Was proven to be useless on 9/11. No, Saddam Hussien had nothing to do with it but the attack proved that the oceans on both our coasts no longer protected us from madmen intent on doing us harm.

Then it's irrelevant to this discussion, isn't it? We're comparing radical Islam to a dictator - not the same variety of fruit.

Quoting DXing (Reply 40):

Unless that tyrant has shown the ability, and the incentive, to use weapons far more dangerous than ordinary bombs as well as pay people (those pesky suicide bombers in Israel come to mind) to do his dirty work.

Again, BFD when compared to many past characters we've associated with. The Maliki government is aligned now with their neighbor to the east, who have been doing everything in that sentence and more. So how has the situation changed, really, where our interests are concerned?

Quoting DXing (Reply 40):
To now say, well paying suicide bombers familes has nothing to do with us is just a little disingenuous.

How? If Iraq were funding strikes within the US that would be something else but that wasn't the case, was it? If Israel didn't like it, that was their problem to deal with, as the Iranian situation is showing now.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
Well you are naive enough to believe that radical Islam can be reasoned with. Which is a fantasy.

Saddam was not a radical Islamist. Far from, in point of fact.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:53 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
Until of course Obama had to cater to the far left anti-war throw backs from the 60's who hate the GOP and any sort or war. Even if it means trying to stop evil dicators and people who just believe in killing if they don't get their way.

Did you bother reading the Bush administration's link regarding the SOFA at all?  Yeah sure

All I'd like to know is: how did removing the stability represented by Saddam's brutal repression make our interests in the region more secure?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:29 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
Then it's irrelevant to this discussion, isn't it? We're comparing radical Islam to a dictator - not the same variety of fruit.

Absolutely not. If he was encouraging suicide bombers to do their dirty work in Israel, it's not much of a leap to support home grown terrorists here. That he didn't think of it or act on it if he did is our good fortune.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
Again, BFD

Again it is a big deal. Which character have we dealt with before that was gassing his own people? The Malike government has to deal with Iran much as we have to deal with Mexico and Canada. To think they could ignore a neighbor they share such a long border with would be kind of naive.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
So how has the situation changed, really, where our interests are concerned?

We are involved in their government and actually have a working relationship with them. Can you say we had the same with Hussien?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 42):
How? If Iraq were funding strikes within the US that would be something else but that wasn't the case, was it? If Israel didn't like it, that was their problem to deal with, as the Iranian situation is showing now.

By our good fortune it wasn't. After 9/11 I agree with President Bush, we can't afford to depend on good fortune.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:41 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 44):
We are involved in their government and actually have a working relationship with them. Can you say we had the same with Hussien?

How easy it is to forget the 80s - apparently. Where did he get the raw materials for his poison gas?
 
RussianJet
Topic Author
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:46 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 40):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 38):
The Iraqi situation is not World War 2, never was, and never will be - and I for one will never ever entertain any attempt at ill-founded comparison between the two.

You don't have too, but that does not make the comparison any less valid.

It sure does. There is no comparison. Utterly, utterly different things.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
Well you are naive enough to believe that radical Islam can be reasoned with

Strange, I don't recall saying that. In any event, when did this suddenly all become about radical Islam? Is that all of a sudden the latest reason for creating this hellish situation? What will it be next week I wonder?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 45):
How easy it is to forget the 80s - apparently. Where did he get the raw materials for his poison gas?

Touche.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:09 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 46):
Strange, I don't recall saying that. In any event, when did this suddenly all become about radical Islam? Is that all of a sudden the latest reason for creating this hellish situation? What will it be next week I wonder?

The Islamists in Iraq were not especially radical until their original government was knocked down without much thought apparently as to what would replace them. THEN the radicals arrived - in spades.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13052
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:31 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 46):
Strange, I don't recall saying that. In any event, when did this suddenly all become about radical Islam? Is that all of a sudden the latest reason for creating this hellish situation? What will it be next week I wonder?

No we don't change the reason. That is what the left does to try to explain away the fact they don't want to have any involvement with a stable middle east. Unless of course it involves having Obama sit down and having a beer with some guys who don't understand anything but how to build bombs and decapitate people if they don't get their way and that way is to have Isreal off their holy land, women who cover their faces and have no rights and do what they are told or they are beaten or worse and no western influence whatsoever and no democracy. We fought Adolph Hitler, Japan and a regime who was doing basically the same thing by killing jews and trying to wipe out anybody who didn't agree with the New Order in Europe why is this different? Just because they use suicide bombers and not ovens? They fly planes into buildings and not into military installations like Pearl Harbor? You all want to render AQ and Hezbollah and the rest irrevelant and a small bunch of radical nuts but your crazy to think these groups won't get stronger now that we have a passive, weak president who thinks his prepared, empty rhetoric will solve the war that is going on. Judging by the words and actions of the leaders of AQ and other world leaders he doesn't have the guts or experience to handle what is going on. Which suits you and the far left fine because it's not our problem what happens over there. It's real scary.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Huge Bomb Attack In Baghdad

Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:13 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 45):
How easy it is to forget the 80s -

That was how long before 2003? Of course situations and relationships never change, the world is supposed to be static as evidenced by the global warming crowd right?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 45):
Where did he get the raw materials for his poison gas?

I don't know, where did he get the material and technology for his nuclear reactor?

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 46):
It sure does. There is no comparison. Utterly, utterly different things.

 redflag  Getting blown up by a V-1 or a car bomb has exactly the same effect. If we follow the defeatists and utopians line of logic then any attack is reason to consider the entire war a failure and the country as hopeless. Fortunately the allies had a little more intestinal fortitude.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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