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futurepilot16
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Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:07 am

They don't work. If any one still believes these abstinence only programs for teenagers work, they need to look at the stats. Furthermore, I think it's a big waste of money for the gov't to be spending to make sure kids don't have sex.

Article from newsweek

http://www.newsweek.com/id/219818
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Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:14 am

Sex - ed doesn't work, especially in American high schools. C'mon, anyone who has gone through high school in the States and had contact with more than 3 other students at the school will know that underage sex is rampant.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 am

Sex-ed as a concept can be very effective, not at stopping teenage sex (and who gets to say that it should be stopped?) but at making sure that teens have sex responsibly. As a Unitarian I underwent our fellowships "Our Whole Lives" 3 month sexual education program and it was a very good way to not only discuss the health/physical aspects of sex but emotional, cultural, and psychological as well. It was a very good experience and it informed me of everything I need to know.

Sex-ed can work, abstinence only cannot.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:02 am

Anyone that's not a complete dumbass knows to use a condom. In school education or not.

99% of high school kids think sex ed is a complete joke and don't take it seriously. However, they do know that using a condom is usually the best method they can use to be safe.
 
Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:07 am



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):

Using a condom can just avoid getting into trouble later on. I don't see why anyone would want to not use a condom; if you get a girl pregnant in high school, you are so screwed for a long, long time. Using a condom protects you and your partner... so why not??
 
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LTU932
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:28 am

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

        

I don't understand why people continue to insist on teaching abstinence in sex-ed. Sex is an essential part of our lives, and we need to show kids how to do this.

Quoting Elite (Reply 4):
Using a condom can just avoid getting into trouble later on. I don't see why anyone would want to not use a condom; if you get a girl pregnant in high school, you are so screwed for a long, long time. Using a condom protects you and your partner... so why not??

Not to mention that using a condom can also prevent the spread of AIDS and of STDs.

[Edited 2009-10-29 20:29:44]
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:55 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 4):
Using a condom protects you and your partner... so why not??

So true but as you and I know when you're young and new to sex things get hot and heavy really quick and the old "just the tip" game gets thrown by the wayside.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:20 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
I don't understand why people continue to insist on teaching abstinence in sex-ed. Sex is an essential part of our lives, and we need to show kids how to do this.

Not only that, but these morons don't realize that the states that push abstinence only a lot, states like Texas, and Mississippi, and Arkansas and the rest of these states, also are constantly in the top ten for teen births and teen pregnancy. So not only is it not working, but it is actually backfiring and teen pregnancy is on the rise in these states.

It's part of the reason i'm glad I grew up in New England. People might look at me and say oh yea your Lib and all that, but at the same time, our schools didn't spend an outrageous amount of money telling us not to have sex, rather they actually found some very raunchy ways of showing us how to have sex safely, which proves why New England isn't anywhere near the top ten in teen pregnancy. It just proves a point that if you constantly tell somebody not do something, they're gonna want to do it more. I think a better use of that money would be to teach these kids safe sex, rather than this rediculous no sex before marriage crap.
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):

99% of high school kids think sex ed is a complete joke and don't take it seriously. However, they do know that using a condom is usually the best method they can use to be safe.

Really? That's why so many of my patients seem to think that condoms are not on the MEL for intercourse? For me it is. No condom, no sex.

But most of my patients seem to consider condoms optional, which is sad.

I try to empower young women to say no to sex, but in the populations I serve, it seems as if all they want is for that man to love them, even if I know that it's just sex.
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Tugger
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:36 am



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 2):
As a Unitarian I underwent our fellowships "Our Whole Lives" 3 month sexual education program and it was a very good way to not only discuss the health/physical aspects of sex but emotional, cultural, and psychological as well. It was a very good experience and it informed me of everything I need to know.

Sex-ed can work, abstinence only cannot.

An excellent program! They teach it for all ages too, from 5 to the teens (age appropriate), ti learn about your body, how you interact with others, how sexuality plays a part in it, and how important it is to respect your body and anothers.

Sex ed, relevant sex ed, is good and important. Abstinence is an option and one that should not be excluded but neither should a complete education on all that encompasses human sexuality.

Tugg
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QXatFAT
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:56 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
If any one still believes these abstinence only programs for teenagers work,

I still believe it works for some because I still have chosen to remain a virgin until I am married. I guess its not complete failier huh?

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):
Anyone that's not a complete dumbass knows to use a condom. In school education or not.

We must have a lot of complete dumbasses in the United States then because here in my city, we still have one of the highest teen and pre-teen pregnancy stats in the United States. When I was a senior in High School (2004), they even had a condom machine in the nurses office and STILL we had so many students pregnant or bringing their children to child care on campus. Sad.

As I am a Christian, I believe it is important for the Christian community to share what our religion teaches on sexual impurity. I dont think though that by just putting a ring on your finger will give you a magical forcefield to protect you from the desire of sex. Give me a break. I would say 8 out of 10 kids that do that thing end up getting or givin oral or go all out and have sex and some have kids.

In order to be responsible I believe you need to mention, if you dont want to have some sort of STD, AIDS, or a child you can not afford to have or take care of, dont have sex in the first place. Once you are mature enough and in Christianitys view married, then have sex with your wife or husband that you know does not have AIDS or an STD.

For the non-Christian, same first thing of abstinance is the sure proof way to not catch such things but in the flip side of reality, talk sex! Let them know the reality of human nature and how to be responsible. Too often I believe teenagers think they can get away with certain things without having a consequence. We live in a consequenceless society. Teach them that you still have the possibility to get a girl pregnant or be pregnant if you use a condom, but its sure as heck a lot safer to use one.
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:03 am

My parents got me this wonderful book by Pater Mayle called "Where Did I Come From?" And then "What's Happening to Me?" The books are dedicated "to blushing parents everywhere." They're GREAT books.

But when it comes to sex ed, I do think that there is a way to do it. First of all, your instructors need to be people who your students can envision having sex. Nothing turns off high school kids like someone who looks like he last had sex in the 80's. Second, they need to be hit with facts like this: "If a woman doesn't get pregnant after having unprotected sex for one year, she needs to be worked up for fertility issues." That little factoid --screw without a condom and you WILL be a parent in one year-- scares them, but in abstinence-only education, that fact can't be used.

But the fact is that teenagers have been having sex since teenagers were invented. Some cultures have accepted this and tried to simply mix this into everyday life. I believe our culture is moving in that direction. But I am at a loss at the poor decision making I see among so many of my young patients.

Men (and I'm talking to those of you not in monogamous relationships), part of your job as a man is to respect women. You protect her from yourself by bagging it. If you aren't using condoms, then you aren't being a man.
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Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:17 am

I think it's also important for us to not encourage underage sex... just because statistics seem to show that it's not working (and we all know what statistics really mean) doesn't mean that we should stop trying. Whatever you do, ultimately, is up to you and you will have to face and bear the consequences when/if they come. But the least that can and should be done is education in this area and getting the message out.
 
Maverick623
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:23 am



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):

99% of high school kids think sex ed is a complete joke and don't take it seriously.

Mmm... I'd wager more like 100%.

Quoting Elite (Reply 4):
Using a condom protects you and your partner... so why not??

Kids Teens don't think like that. They want to know what it's like without wearing one.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
we need to show kids how to do this.

Well, don't force it upon them, but make sure that they know it's ok to ask.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
People might look at me and say oh yea your Lib and all that, but at the same time, our schools didn't spend an outrageous amount of money telling us not to have sex, rather they actually found some very raunchy ways of showing us how to have sex safely

Haha. Arizona skirted the issue of sex-ed entirely by showing us a video (in 5th grade) of guys getting boners and girls on their periods. It was comical, because this was stuff most of us had learned about long before then.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):

But the fact is that teenagers have been having sex since teenagers were invented.

It's a biological function for the purpose of reproduction. The "prime time" for doing that is... wait for it...... 14-18 years old. Which is funny, many of these "abstinence only" supporters are Christians. Maybe someone forgot to tell them that Mary got pregnant at 15?

Also, humans are one of, I believe, only 4 species that have casual sex.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
Men (and I'm talking to those of you not in monogamous relationships), part of your job as a man is to respect women. You protect her from yourself by bagging it.

And you should add "protect yourself" to that, because men aren't the only ones with STDs.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:37 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
It's a biological function for the purpose of reproduction.

It may be, but kids that are having sex aren't doing it for the purpose of reproduction... they're doing it for lust, which is against what is being preached in the Bible.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
Maybe someone forgot to tell them that Mary got pregnant at 15?

No, but you might have forgotten the fact that it was Virgin Mary who got pregnant!
 
Maverick623
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:18 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 14):
It may be, but kids that are having sex aren't doing it for the purpose of reproduction... they're doing it for lust

Which is the human emotional response to the need to procreate. It's no more a conscious feeling than true love (which incidentally is also a human emotional response).

Quoting Elite (Reply 14):
which is against what is being preached in the Bible.

I, for one, take great offense to being "preached" to with absolute rules by a collection of stories and letters, of which the most recent are 1900 years old, and all of which were written by men.

And speaking of that, were you aware the Bible preaches slavery is OK? Maybe we should teach our kids that Lincoln was wrong and that slavery is the only option.

Quoting Elite (Reply 14):
fact



Quoting Elite (Reply 14):
Virgin

Not a fact, an opinion. Facts are verifiable. And there's absolutely no evidence to support a conclusion that humans can auto-reproduce.
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Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:29 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
Which is the human emotional response to the need to procreate. It's no more a conscious feeling than true love (which incidentally is also a human emotional response).

I was referring to the fact that it was against one of the teachings in Christianity. Obviously, many people view sex as something much less than sacred; they merely view it as an act that they do for fun, much like watching a TV show.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
I, for one, take great offense to being "preached" to with absolute rules by a collection of stories and letters, of which the most recent are 1900 years old, and all of which were written by men.

And speaking of that, were you aware the Bible preaches slavery is OK? Maybe we should teach our kids that Lincoln was wrong and that slavery is the only option.

Oh yeah, I'm sure  Yeah sure Quit the bullshit. The Old Testament is full of war and revenge, does that mean that Christianity preaches hate and revenge? The Bible is the word of God to many, many people around the world, and it preaches against pre-marital sex. Don't bring in how the Bible preaches that slavery is OK and what not, that's going completely off topic.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 15):
Not a fact, an opinion. Facts are verifiable. And there's absolutely no evidence to support a conclusion that humans can auto-reproduce.

You bring in Virgin Mary and yet you refuse to accept the fact that she was a virgin who gave birth without have sexual intercourse. Either bring in the full story or don't bring it in at all. Don't nitpick and chose and not give the whole story. That's taking things completely out of context.
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:48 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
but these morons don't realize

A little criticism? You do realize you could be arguing that the sun is going to come up in the morning, but when you berate folks, you weaken your argument. Your posts are littered with insults, veiled and overt. End of debate lesson.  Smile

That having been said, abstinence only sex-ed probably (I say probably because I haven't looked at any data) doesn't work. Sex-education needs to be well-rounded and cover the bases, in an age-appropriate manner.

Parents need to be involved in this education process. But, here's where I depart from the Conservative line; when the parents are unwilling or incapable of teaching their children about sex-ed, the duty falls to the State. It hurts to say that, but the State has a vested interest in reducing teen pregnancy and out-of-wedlock births. (I won't get into the reasons the State may want a lot of these folks; different thread, different debate)

Parents that don't want the State to educate their children about all the aspects of sex-educaion, should opt out.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
condom machine

Folks need to understand that many teens will not use condoms because they think they are bullet proof. Pregnant? No way. AIDS? That's for gays. VD? Not going to happen, and even if I do get it, there are drugs. Unfortunately, too many kids need to learn the hard way.

Education, education, education. Don't scare them. Just the facts.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
First of all, your instructors need to be people who your students can envision having sex.

Wow, if my high school English teacher had also been sex-ed, I would have funked out a couple of times.
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 14):

No, but you might have forgotten the fact that it was Virgin Mary who got pregnant!

Oh yeah. In fact, I've delivered a few babies from teenage girls who swore up and down they were virgins as the baby was coming out.

Why everyone believed THIS 15yo "Virgin..."

Quoting Elite (Reply 14):

It may be, but kids that are having sex aren't doing it for the purpose of reproduction... they're doing it for lust, which is against what is being preached in the Bible.

Fine. You believe in the Bible. You believe that some 15yo girl 2000 years ago pulled the same trick that 15yo girls pull today and went into denial and claimed she didn't have sex even though she was pregnant. That's great. Power to you.

It has no place in sex ed. You can teach Bible all you want in Church. Your Church can have sex ed classes that tell kids to ignore what they're taught in school. But the Bible has no place in a school unless it's a literature class.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:52 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
I still believe it works for some because I still have chosen to remain a virgin until I am married. I guess its not complete failier huh?

Did the abstinence-only program convince you to remain abstinent until marriage? Or had you made that decision yourself before your sex-ed program?
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san747
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:43 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
We must have a lot of complete dumbasses in the United States

What else is new?

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):

I still believe it works for some because I still have chosen to remain a virgin until I am married. I guess its not complete failier huh?

Yes, in general, it has been a complete failure-

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):

Not only that, but these morons don't realize that the states that push abstinence only a lot, states like Texas, and Mississippi, and Arkansas and the rest of these states, also are constantly in the top ten for teen births and teen pregnancy.

If you, QXatFAT, actually manage to remain completely chaste until marriage, great. I would actually be very impressed at such an achievement, but the vast majority of people your (and my) age (I'm 21) will not hold off until their wedding night. Therefore, those who don't hold off are obligated to information about how to protect themselves and be responsible.

Abstinence-only education does not provide that information, therefore it has a huge flaw, which shows itself in tangible terms with higher STD and teen pregnancy rates in areas where abstinence-only is the predominant educational method.

Quoting Elite (Reply 16):
The Old Testament is full of war and revenge, does that mean that Christianity preaches hate and revenge?

It certainly can be (and has often been) interpreted so. "Christianity" and "piety" have been used as excuses for all sorts of discrimination, prejudice and outright violence throughout history.
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:01 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):

I still believe it works for some because I still have chosen to remain a virgin until I am married. I guess its not complete failier huh?

No, it didn't work because it makes it worse. In YOUR specific case, you made your decision, and I respect it. If more young people did the same it would solve a lot of problems.

But wishing that it would be the case is not the same as dealing in reality. The fact is that abstinence-only education causes more teen pregnancies, more teen births, and more STD's.

In my world, I believe in facts that can be proven.

Abdtinence-only works for you because of your religion. Many of us choose not to have a religion and we have a right to know the whole truth.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:02 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 10):
I still believe it works for some because I still have chosen to remain a virgin until I am married. I guess its not complete failier huh?

Once you finally do get a shag and find out what fun it is I'm pretty sure you'll kick your own butt for wasting the prime of your youth not bumping uglies with the honeys.

Considering the new testament was written by some turkey's decades if not centuries after jc met his maker any talk of abstinence in the bible is something I would take with a big grain of salt.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 14):
No, but you might have forgotten the fact that it was Virgin Mary who got pregnant!

Not getting at you but seriously I can't believe people still believe this fallacy, we are not scared peasants in the middle ages or 16th or 17th puritans.

As for a virgin pregancy, my theory behind this was Joseph was having a wee play with his doodle, got some sperm on his fingers then had a wee play with Mary's lower regions, bingo one virgin pregency. I know a couple who's daughter was conceived just like this, two silly christian kids having a play with each other, 9 months later bingo one virgin birth just like jc.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:18 pm

From the Article:

"The programs that have by far the strongest evidence that they have a positive impact … are those that give the message that not having sex is safest, but if you have sex always use condom and contraception,"

BINGO!

Those who simply want to hand out condoms are wrong; those who simply want to teach abstinence-only are wrong. The best approach is a comprehensive program, telling kids that, yes, absitinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy and STD's, but that if you're going to be foolish and not listen to that advice, at least protect yourself.

Abstinence-only programs simply are people trying to bury their head in the sand to the reality of being a teenager. Teens have, and always will, experiment with sex. That's not going to change. We are short-changing them by hiding some basic realities.
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:23 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):

Abstinence-only programs simply are people trying to bury their head in the sand to the reality of being a teenager. Teens have, and always will, experiment with sex. That's not going to change. We are short-changing them by hiding some basic realities.

And whenever someone wants to not teach something I get very worried. Knowledge is only dangerous to those who fear truth. Those who fear truth are always on the side of evil.
-Doc Lightning-

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LTU932
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:48 pm



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
Well, don't force it upon them, but make sure that they know it's ok to ask.

Yes, agreed. I may have expressed myself badly. We need to make sure that those kids know about Safe Sex, but also about contraceptives and how to prevent STDs from spreading. Sex isn't evil, sex is not just there for ensuring the continuation of any living species, but for humans, as long as the proper precautions are made and as long as it's consensual, it's also there for recreation.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:08 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
Sex isn't evil, sex is not just there for ensuring the continuation of any living species, but for humans, as long as the proper precautions are made and as long as it's consensual, it's also there for recreation.

Sex is a great many things in human society, much like it is for bonobos. It's a form of communication, currency, recreation, procreation, and abuse. We're not the only species that uses sex that way. Dogs use mating to assert dominance hierarchies. Dolphins do the same, and they seem to use it for play. Bonobos have sex for...everything.

It's part of a healthy adult life and while I do counsel that it is a risk factor for STI's and pregnancy, I am careful to not tell my patients that they should or should not be having it.

I'll give you an example. I was interviewing a 19yo gentleman who had been referred for evaluation for social anxiety disorder. The gentleman told me that he was not particularly bothered by his symptoms. I asked him a few questions and slipped in a "are you sexually active?" In fact, he had been sexually active since 16 with three lifetime female partners. Hardly a jock number, but it was reassuring to me that he was socially functional enough to have sex.

I get far more concerned by young adults who aren't having sex or at least engaging in some sort of sexual activity, because it suggests to me that something is psychologically wrong.
-Doc Lightning-

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dc9northwest
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:03 pm

I think the many of the societal problems of sex today stem from the lack of understanding that because sex is the most intimate action humans can have, it should be sacred; not in a religious sense, but in the sense that you shouldn't shag every girl/man you meet on the street. While the latter is an exaggeration, I'm sure there are some people (men mostly) who have a similar approach to sex. Most women seem to be able to conceal this more easily than most men. I find the aforementioned approach wrong, and a plague to society. While no doubt everyone has the right to make their own decisions, I think that problems arise because sex is so pleasurable. In fact, sex addiction should be as medically valid as drug addiction, in my opinion. I'm sure Doc can comment on this issue (though it might not be currently called explicitly an 'addiction', by using definitions of such, in the end, the difference is inconsequential). Hence, like someone on psychotropics, sex makes one lose one's head. Thus, no doubt, problems will occur, because sex leads to pregnancy in certain situations.

Such as when people do not use protection and contraceptives. To be sure nothing goes awry, I think both are needed.

Nevertheless, once you trust your partner fully (there's this: can you ever really do so?), and know that they're taking contraceptives (or you are, if female), and only then, you can neglect a condom. In my opinion, only then should sex happen, but most people would not share this last view.

Another point: Alcohol. Yes, alcohol. Aside from legally meeting the definition of rape, inebriation causes several problems regarding judgement. And my wager is that this is when things start going downhill. You see, many people use alcohol as a social lubricant, hence eventually fucking while drunk. And when one is drunk, one doesn't exactly act rationally. This is from observation only; I have never been attracted to the effects of alcohol.

People should be educated, but only a tiny fraction of people want to. This is the problem...

Frankly, I think that any outside sources on sex will have a much lower influence then they should... But then again, why are we surprised? The media NEVER offers the full story, neither do TV shows... Even the government has hidden interests. Let the condom industry be as powerful in lobbying as the tobacco industry and everyone would use condoms.
 
Airport
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:43 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
And whenever someone wants to not teach something I get very worried. Knowledge is only dangerous to those who fear truth. Those who fear truth are always on the side of evil.

Brilliantly brilliantly put. Could not agree more.  thumbsup 
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:45 pm



Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 28):
In fact, sex addiction should be as medically valid as drug addiction, in my opinion. I'm sure Doc can comment on this issue (though it might not be currently called explicitly an 'addiction', by using definitions of such, in the end, the difference is inconsequential). Hence, like someone on psychotropics, sex makes one lose one's head.

It is classified as such, but it's a disorder when it causes a problem for the patient, not when the patient's values differ from your own.

You think sex should be sacred. Others disagree with you. I don't think that anyone has the right to tell another person that their way of or reasons for having sex aren't valid. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult and nobody is being injured or hurt, then it's not anyone's place to call it wrong. The problem is that having casual sex without a condom does endanger one or both partners and their other partners.

The problem with sex isn't with why people are doing it, but with how they're doing it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
san747
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:36 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):

I get far more concerned by young adults who aren't having sex or at least engaging in some sort of sexual activity, because it suggests to me that something is psychologically wrong.

Absolutely! I'm always amazed at my age (21) when I encounter a peer who isn't even interested in having sex or interacting in a physical or romantic way with the opposite (or same) sex (as need be). Sexuality and sexual attraction to others are common experiences in all human beings, so when I see someone not even acknowledging them, it seems like a red flag.

Just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not talking about those who voluntarily want to hold off on sex until they're married or anything like that. I'll use QXatFat as an example, since he's been the most vocal in this thread about promising to remain a virgin until marriage. He obviously is aware of his own sexuality and has made a conscious decision concerning how he will deal with it. There is nothing wrong with that.

If he (or I, or anyone else) simply denied having sexual feelings in any way, then that would, as DocLightning says, be a cause for concern, both psychologically, and possibly even physiologically as well, I'd imagine.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Elite
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:44 am



Quoting San747 (Reply 31):

There's no way a normal person would not have these "thoughts" or "feelings"; anyone who says so is pretty much always just downright lying. I mean, people start thinking about these things when they are like, 11 years old.
 
san747
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:50 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 32):

There's no way a normal person would not have these "thoughts" or "feelings"; anyone who says so is pretty much always just downright lying. I mean, people start thinking about these things when they are like, 11 years old.

Exactly, which is why I'm so against abstinence-only sex ed. It essentially is telling adolescents to simply pretend those feelings don't even exist, instead of acknowledging a mature and healthy way of dealing with them.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:06 am



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
As for a virgin pregancy, my theory behind this was Joseph was having a wee play with his doodle, got some sperm on his fingers then had a wee play with Mary's lower regions, bingo one virgin pregency. I know a couple who's daughter was conceived just like this, two silly christian kids having a play with each other, 9 months later bingo one virgin birth just like jc.

ROTFL!!!
Reminds me the scene from Woody Allen's "Celebrities" when the main hero tries to get laid at a party but is rejected because the lady wants to remain faithful to her husband and as she claims "her body belongs to her husband" only to offer him a blow-job because "she can do with her head whatever she wants to".
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:31 am



Quoting San747 (Reply 33):
It essentially is telling adolescents to simply pretend those feelings don't even exist, instead of acknowledging a mature and healthy way of dealing with them.

Worse than that. It tells them that engaging in these acts is wrong and that having these feelings is wrong.

And the irony is that the abstinence-only folks won't allow masturbation to be presented as a safe, healthy alternative to sex.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
TSS
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:17 am



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
Once you finally do get a shag and find out what fun it is I'm pretty sure you'll kick your own butt for wasting the prime of your youth not bumping uglies with the honeys.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
Or worse yet, finding out after the wedding that your partner remained a virgin until marriage because she had no interest in sex whatsoever and that that attitude didn't change one bit once the ring was officially on her finger.  eek 
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):

Once you finally do get a shag and find out what fun it is I'm pretty sure you'll kick your own butt for wasting the prime of your youth not bumping uglies with the honeys.

And you'll also learn that there is a VAST difference between sex and love. In fact, true love is nothing like sex at all.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
N104UA
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:14 pm

If you want proof that Abstinence Only Programs are a waste of time look at Sarah Palin's daughter. If they would have taught her and Levi about condoms we never would have to be seeing Levi all of the time now.
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
Falcon84
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:40 pm



Quoting N104UA (Reply 38):
If they would have taught her and Levi about condoms we never would have to be seeing Levi all of the time now.

I'm no fan of Sarah and "First Dude", but the blame for Levi goes to Levi's parents, not Sarah and Todd. They're responsible for their daugther in this case, not Levi.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:07 am



Quoting N104UA (Reply 38):
If they would have taught her and Levi about condoms we never would have to be seeing Levi all of the time now.

I'm sure they didn't know them. But the talk you need to have with a boy is "I'd rather you didn't have sex, but if you do, use these. If I hear that you did without, I will cut off your balls and give them to you in a jar of preservative with a pink ribbon tied around it Understand?"

I've found that when I've given that talk to a teenager in my family, it gets a good reaction.

My dad's version was slightly. I was on my way out on a date and he slapped some condoms into my hand and told me that if I was his son, I'd be needing them.

Kids have to be raised in an environment where this is discussed and they need to be told firmly by adults about some reasonable rules and precautions. They're going to have sex. Everyone does. So leaving out this information is, in my opinion, not defensible in the best interests of the child.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:34 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
And you'll also learn that there is a VAST difference between sex and love. In fact, true love is nothing like sex at all.

Very true, one has more meaning than the other but both are a lot of fun, however banging virgins isn't fun, so two virgins having a go would be well worth watching for the amusement factor alone.
 
N104UA
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:19 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):

I'm no fan of Sarah and "First Dude", but the blame for Levi goes to Levi's parents, not Sarah and Todd. They're responsible for their daugther in this case, not Levi.

Well she should have also known about what they were and said "hey if we use one of these we won't get pregnant," and I bet that Levi's parents are pretty conservative also and not teaching him about condoms also
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
Maverick623
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:29 am



Quoting N104UA (Reply 42):

Well she should have also known about what they were and said "hey if we use one of these we won't get pregnant," and I bet that Levi's parents are pretty conservative also and not teaching him about condoms also

No, it was probably more like "I can't even risk having condoms around because Mom and Dad would kill me. That's ok, I'll just tell him to pull out".
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
baroque
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:59 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
They don't work.

A propos of working, does the computer that automatically sorts out ads have an inbuilt sense of humour? I got this just below the thread starter:

*
Loading...

*
Diploma in Aviation
Premium qualification that gets you your dream job!
www.tvsa.com.au


It does make you worry about the possibility of convincing many (all too many perhaps) Americans of something more complex such as the need to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, when something as bleeding obvious as this topic causes even a smidgin of controversy.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:11 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):

No, it was probably more like "I can't even risk having condoms around because Mom and Dad would kill me. That's ok, I'll just tell him to pull out".

Bull. It was Levi saying "baby, you can trust me. It feels better. I'll pull out." And she bought it. Hah. Because teenage guys are famous for being able to carefully control when they will ejaculate. :-|
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
N1120A
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RE: Abstinence Only Programs Are A Waste Of Time

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:36 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 16):
Obviously, many people view sex as something much less than sacred

I consider sex to be pretty damn sacred. Nothing to do with religion or how many partners one has  Wink

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 17):

Folks need to understand that many teens will not use condoms because they think they are bullet proof.

Nah. When I was in high school, most people were using condoms because we had been scared to death of HIV. Younger people haven't had that same thought tattooed in their heads and seem to be using protection less now than we did. Also, why is there never talk about hormonal birth control here? Said use, or lack thereof, is even more an issue than condom use in teen pregnancy.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
The best approach is a comprehensive program, telling kids that, yes, absitinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy and STD's, but that if you're going to be foolish and not listen to that advice, at least protect yourself.

I agree with everything but the comment about being foolish. Sex is natural and we are hard wired to start having it far younger than society pretends.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 43):

No, it was probably more like "I can't even risk having condoms around because Mom and Dad would kill me. That's ok, I'll just tell him to pull out".

Bull. It was Levi saying "baby, you can trust me. It feels better. I'll pull out." And she bought it. Hah. Because teenage guys are famous for being able to carefully control when they will ejaculate. :-|

Both hilarious. That said, I doubt either one is the case. I am betting they started with condoms then progressed to withdrawal, as happens with a lot of dumb teens. Then again, if Princess Tea Bagger had been on birth control, this whole situation would have been avoided.
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