plateman
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:29 pm

Terrible news just coming out of Fort Hood, Texas .... 7 shot dead, 12+ injured.

Just hitting the news now

UPDATING (3:47EDT): Three shooters (confirmed) possible in three diff locations (not sure) -FOX

[Edited 2009-11-05 12:48:29 by PlateMan]
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JakeOrion
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:32 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Sad sad news. I wonder what the story is one this one for going on a rampage.
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fraspotter
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:27 pm

I'm watching the coverage on CNN... talking to Kay Bailey Hutchison (senator from texas) right now... Guess it was at a warrior transition center for soldiers heading to Iraq and Afghanistan... Now they're reporting 10+ dead and close to 30 wounded...
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plateman
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:53 pm

UPDATE ORIGINAL POST:

Army Spokesperson:

12 Dead
One suspect (solider) dead
Two suspects (soldiers) in custody

SO SAD>
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falstaff
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:10 pm

There has got to be something interesting here other than just your run of the mill shooting rampage. If one guy went off his rocker and shot the place up I could see it being an odd, but seemingly random event. When you have two or possibly three shooters you have a plan and multiple people conspiring to commit a act of violence. I heard on the radio, here in Detroit (WJR) that the FBI says it doesn't look like terrorism. Really? I say any event that leaves scores wounded and twelve dead an act of terror. I would be terrified wouldn't you?

Remember a year or so ago when New Jersey police caught those would be terrorists who wanted to attack Fort Dix in just this fashion.

This may not be your garden variety Jihadist terrorist attack, but just these early facts point to this being an organized event.

[Edited 2009-11-05 14:17:46 by falstaff]
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KPDX
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:22 pm

Horrible! I live near the base and all of our schools have been in lock down (I just got out). There are medical/news helicopters EVERYWHERE right now. Most I have ever seen in the air at once.


RIP to all killed, its amazing how cowardly some people are....
 
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Dreadnought
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 4):
There has got to be something interesting here other than just your run of the mill shooting rampage. If one guy went off his rocker and shot the place up I could see it being an odd, but seemingly random event. When you have two or possibly three shooters you have a plan and multiple people conspiring to commit a act of violence. I heard on the radio, here in Detroit (WJR) that the FBI says it doesn't look like terrorism. Really? I say any event that leaves scores wounded and twelve dead an act of terror. I would be terrified wouldn't you?

Oh, wonderful... At least one of the shooters is a muslim. Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-ki...ort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
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AGM100
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:02 pm

Shooter "identified" by ABC . Woa this is a big big deal... a Major ?? If this is true a definite double agent for the insurgency . Man , nothing like bringing the fight to the enemy ... A terrible day for Ft Hood and its personal .


http://abcnews.go.com/WN/soldiers-ki...ort-hood-shooting/story?id=9007938
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iairallie
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:16 am

Such horrible news. I've brought troops in and out of ft. Hood many times. I also went to a military family congregation there for church one Sunday. Such sweet friendly folks. My prayers are with them all.
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greggarious
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Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:14 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
Woa this is a big big deal... a Major ?? If this is true a definite double agent for the insurgency .

To which insurgency are you referring to? Iraqi? Afghan? It takes a long time to reach the rank of major, usually longer than either insurgency has been going on for. I think it's premature to link the shootings to any actions abroad, much less to call him a double agent for a disorganized, non-governmental collection of resistance fighters and terrorists... to be honest, his rank would suggest an isolated incident to me. According to CNN, he was upset about an upcoming deployment to Iraq. Terrible that he acted on his misgivings in this manner... such a sad incident.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html
 
Mir
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:51 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
Shooter "identified" by ABC . Woa this is a big big deal... a Major ?? If this is true a definite double agent for the insurgency .

No indications that this is terror-related yet, so let's hold off on that sort of stuff for now.

RIP to those who were lost. It's awful when we lose our troops in battle overseas, but this is just horrific.

-Mir
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ltbewr
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:56 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Oh, wonderful... At least one of the shooters is a Muslim. Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

Just because a person has an Arab/Middle Eastern Name doesn't mean they are automatically Muslim, indeed he could be a Christian.

The alleged shooter is a Psych-Doctor and specialized with soldiers with post-trumatic syndrome. Some comments have come out having a mixed record in his posts. It was reported he was to be deployed soon to Iraq. He may have made posts on an internet board about ending his life. Knowing from his daily work how bad it was in Iraq, combined by his ethnic background, he apparently deeply feared being deployed to Iraq.

By the way, a wild coincidence to another mass killing - Maj. Hasan went to Virginia Tech (he was in the ROTC program). The Army paid for his medical schooling. He is a born American. .
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:34 am

Apparently he (the shooter) is still alive.

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 9):
It takes a long time to reach the rank of major

About 8 years.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:39 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
Apparently he (the shooter) is still alive.

Too bad.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
Just because a person has an Arab/Middle Eastern Name doesn't mean they are automatically Muslim, indeed he could be a Christian.

Maybe so, but I have a feeling that this major's feelings about Islam will turn out to be at the core of this incident. I may be wrong, in which case I will duly apologize. We shall see.
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NIKV69
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:44 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Too bad.

Yea after this is all said and done he probably would have preferred a quick death because he will be tried and sentenced to die anyway.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:04 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Maybe so, but I have a feeling that this major's feelings about Islam will turn out to be at the core of this incident. I may be wrong, in which case I will duly apologize. We shall see.

It's being reported that he is indeed Muslim, a psychiatrist, and a strong and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq. This was going to be his first deployment.

It just really upsets me that a fellow soldier would do this to his brethren. Extremely disturbing.
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stratosphere
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:09 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
It's being reported that he is indeed Muslim, a psychiatrist, and a strong and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq. This was going to be his first deployment.

Gee do you wonder why muslims are getting profiled..Here we go again..And he was an Army officer to boot...Geeez.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 am

Too bad the earlier reports had the shooter listed as dead..But not so..Too bad. Hopefully he will get the death penelty.
 
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:43 am

This just makes me sick to my stomach to read!

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 17):
Hopefully he will get the death penelty.

 checkmark 

...but after we get as much information out of him as possible. I have a sick feeling there may be more of these cowards serving in the military hoping to carry out similar attacks.
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ltbewr
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:50 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 17):
Too bad the earlier reports had the shooter listed as dead..But not so..Too bad. Hopefully he will get the death penelty.

Since the acts took place on a military base, the Code of Military Justice would apply so could upon conviction he could be given a death sentence. I suspect he is in rough physical condition, so who knows if he will survive.
Cleary this has been a horrible act, taking place at a loction where soldiers go thorugh upon deployment off the base (like to Iraq) or upon return to the base from deployment. Some civilian employees may have been killed, or at the least injured.
So far, only the name of the alleged murderer has been released, probably the others are being withheld pending notification of next of kin and to preserve the investigation. Hopefully in the next few days, more details will come out as to what led to the Major's action and what went wrong as to security that allowed this to happen.
 
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:53 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
If this is true a definite double agent for the insurgency

Huh? Do you really buy that, AGM? Which insurgency are you talking about. This was an American-born soldier. He wasn't born in the Middle East. He's from here.

I think it's more likely he was just nuts and went nuts here, not that he's part of some insurgency.

Sadly, that's a pretty xenophobic statement to make about a man who is an American, and served in our Armed Forces.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Maybe so, but I have a feeling that this major's feelings about Islam will turn out to be at the core of this incident. I may be wrong, in which case I will duly apologize. We shall see.

Maybe so, but you have no qualms about jumping to that conclusion do you, Charles.

Even if he did it because he was distraught about going and fighting fellow Muslims, we don't need comments like this to stir the pot. There'll be nuts out there, no doubt, who'll want to take this out on someone who is/looks Muslim. Why give them any ammo?
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:28 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
I suspect he is in rough physical condition, so who knows if he will survive.

BBC says he is stable and his death isnt imminent. They also suggest his motive was he was racially harassed due to his ethnic background. To be honest, particularly seeing some posts on here, I can believe it... not that it justifies his horrific action by any means of course.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345713.stm


The gunman has been named as Major Nidal Malik Hasan. He is now said to be wounded after being shot a number of times, but in a stable condition in custody.

"His death is not imminent," said Lt Gen Cone.

Maj Hasan, aged 39, was a military psychiatrist and was reportedly due to be sent on a mission to Iraq.

His cousin said Maj Hasan - a US-born Muslim - had been resisting such a deployment.

"He hired a military attorney to try to have the issue resolved, pay back the government, to get out of the military. He was at the end of trying everything," Nader Hasan told Fox News.

He also said that Nidal Malik Hasan had been battling racial harassment because of his "Middle Eastern ethnicity".

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 9):
It takes a long time to reach the rank of major,



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 9):
he was upset about an upcoming deployment to Iraq.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
It's being reported that he is indeed Muslim, a psychiatrist, and a strong and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq. This was going to be his first deployment.

So why the hell sign up and go all the way to being a major and go to Fort Hood in the first place if he didnt expect to get sent to the heat of the action??? Something doesnt add up...
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fraspotter
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:42 am



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 21):
So why the hell sign up and go all the way to being a major and go to Fort Hood in the first place if he didnt expect to get sent to the heat of the action??? Something doesnt add up...

Was he active duty, reservist or national guard? Many of these higher ranking medical professionals are "part timers" who have practices and jobs in the civilian medical sector... It could be that this guy was one of them and until now wasn't called to deploy... Though this is purely speculation, it is something to think about...
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:55 am



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 21):
So why the hell sign up and go all the way to being a major and go to Fort Hood in the first place if he didnt expect to get sent to the heat of the action??? Something doesnt add up...

Because believe it or not, there are some people who expect a "free lunch." The US taxpayers paid for him to receive years of education, college degrees, numerous state accreditation, etc. And there is a strong, well paying, civilian job market for those skills. The US military is very reluctant to release these highly trained individuals prior to their full service obligation. The intent is to prevent people from taking advantage of the military/tax payers paying for all their education... only to get out prior to their commitment obligation.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
I think it's more likely he was just nuts and went nuts here, not that he's part of some insurgency.

Insurgency motivated? No. Religiously motivated: Yes, at least partially. He has reportedly made posts on religious websites, glorifying suicide bombers. Reportedly openly spoken out against the wars overseas. Reportedly deeply disturbed about the prospect of fighting fellow Muslims. And may have been wearing his Muslim religious garb when he went on his murder spree.

Look I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that he is Muslim... especially if those religious beliefs were possibly motivating factors. It's very disturbing, and definitely ought to be discussed.
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UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:03 am

I'm glad the b*****d is still alive. Now hopefully the coward will get what he deserves (if that is even possible).
 
baroque
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:18 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Falcon84 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 14835 posts, RR: 81
Reply 20

Sad event. But aside from the reportage, the first post worth the bandwidth, thanks for adding sanity Falcon.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:24 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Look I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that he is Muslim... especially if those religious beliefs were possibly motivating factors. It's very disturbing, and definitely ought to be discussed.

I don't either, but to assume. as AGM, that he's part of some insurgency right off the bat is simply fueling the fire of religious intolerance. It should be discussed. And if he was distraight that he might go over there and kill a relative of his, and that's what set him off, it is valid.

I just don't see jumping to such conclusions until we find out more.
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Tugger
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:40 am

Very sad event. My condolences for the dead and injured and their friends and family.

Another sad aspect of this is what this terrible little man has done to "his people" in America. He feels persecuted and stereotyped so he goes and does something that aggravates the public's fears and will increase the undue suspicions of people of middle eastern decent and Muslims in America. On my way home today I heard a talk show host agreeing with a caller that said "we have to really watch out more for these people, we can't let them gain our confidence" and he was talking about Muslims.

It's really sad.

Tugg
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futurepilot16
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:11 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 27):
Another sad aspect of this is what this terrible little man has done to "his people" in America. He feels persecuted and stereotyped so he goes and does something that aggravates the public's fears and will increase the undue suspicions of people of middle eastern decent and Muslims in America

I can't help but think that this man is a gutless coward. He joined the military and the military put him through school and he advanced through the ranks. Unfortunately, he was also a muslim extremist in the closet. He was terrified of being deployed because he's a wimp. So he decides to go on a shooting spree.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 21):
He also said that Nidal Malik Hasan had been battling racial harassment because of his "Middle Eastern ethnicity".

Cry me a river please, cry me one as long as the amazon river. There is no justification for such a cowardly act. He was mental nutjob just like the other extremists and after getting into the minds of all the soldiers that had been deployed, he started going to extremist websites and glorifying their actions. I'll bet any amount of money that today this man thinks he is a martyr? I hope they feed his body to the sharks.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 21):
"He hired a military attorney to try to have the issue resolved, pay back the government, to get out of the military. He was at the end of trying everything," Nader Hasan told Fox News.

Please, "AND HERE COMES THE FAMILY TO DEFEND THE HORRIFIC ACT OF THEIR LOVED ONE". I'm not buying into it. You can't make me believe that a Major in the us army was being made fun of for being muslim so bad that he wanted to kill so many people. Seriously, think about it. How many people could say such things to a major in the army without facing some severe punishment? I believe that he was just a coward who felt guilty about deploying because he didn't want to kill the same people that he glorifies.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
L-188
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:15 am

Well, he will end up with a Kansas vacation but this one might be of limited duration.

Any Idea when the last military death sentence was issued out. I don't see anything less in this case.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:03 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 29):

Any Idea when the last military death sentence was issued out

A very long time ago. 1961.
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:27 am

My heart goes out to my brothers and sisters and to anyone else who has been affected by this terrible act of cowardice. The US Army is truly better than this. With an organization of 1.1 million people inevitably you're going to have some bad apples, however soldiers just do not hurt other soldiers like this period. What I want to know is if CID was already taking a look at this guy and he has made statements both written and oral in the past that are deleterious to the mission of the US Army and US Federal Government why didn't he get the boot? Yes yes hindsight is 20/20, we face personnel quality issues given the rigors of the fight we're in, roger got it, but the picture that the media is painting clearly shows that this guy clearly had no place being an officer in the United States Army. Sad day.
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TheCol
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:33 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Too bad.

Not really, now he can be interrogated and military can get to the bottom of this. He can be executed for treason at a later date.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:09 am

First of all, RIP to all my dead brothers and sisters at Ft. Hood. My thoughts and prayers are with their families.
I'm a PROUD soldier in the U.S Army serving as an Arabic Linguist. I come from a Middle Eastern descent (non-muslim) and I'm not a US citizen. I joined this great Army to fight in the war of terror. I love this country and everything it stands for, but it really breaks my heart when I hear people catagorizing us as terrorists because of todays incident. While this guy MIGHT have been a terrorist, there are thousand of Arab/muslim soldiers in the US military who are loyal to USA and would pay the ultimate price for the everything America stands for.
With that said, I would like to comment on the following:

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 28):
He was terrified of being deployed because he's a wimp.

With all due respect, I strongly disagree with your statement. He was terrified of deployment because he's human. People look at us and think we fear nothing. This is not true. I am an American Soldier, and deployment scares me too. If you've never been deployed it might be hard for you to understand. Would I go on a shooting rampage because i'm scared? HELL NO.
Do I pray and go to church more often? You bet.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 28):
You can't make me believe that a Major in the us army was being made fun of for being muslim so bad that he wanted to kill so many people. Seriously, think about it.

Good Point. But also, as someone mentioned above, it takes a long time to get promoted to Major. Which is why I wonder if this is a psych. type incident as opposed to terrorism.

Thank you for reading.

P.S. UH60FtRucker: You are in my thoughts brother. Press the fight.

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futurepilot16
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 am



Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 33):
With all due respect, I strongly disagree with your statement. He was terrified of deployment because he's human. People look at us and think we fear nothing. This is not true. I am an American Soldier, and deployment scares me too. If you've never been deployed it might be hard for you to understand. Would I go on a shooting rampage because i'm scared? HELL NO.
Do I pray and go to church more often? You bet.

Ok, I was a little out of line. But i'm pissed that someone would look at that as an underlying cause for this man killing 12 people. I know friends who are 18, 19 and 20 years old who have been to Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea, Japan, all over the world. These are teenagers putting their life on the line for this country. Who have died in the prime of their life for this country. But this 39 year old man decides he wants to abandon the army, then kill 12 people all because he doesn't want to get deployed? I'm calling B.S. on this one.

I'm sure you get scared when you get deployed too, and I respect your job and what you do, but at least you didn't try to come up with a million ways to avoid deployment because you're scared. You and hundreds of thousands of American troops accepted their responsibility based on the oath you took. This man didn't follow through. He did everything in his power to try to not get deployed and when all else failed, he killed 12 people and injured 20 more. That to me sounds like a coward.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:38 am



Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 33):
ut also, as someone mentioned above, it takes a long time to get promoted to Major.

Typically 8-10 yrs after your commissioning based upon your branch and the needs of the Army. Our biggest shortfall right now in the officer corps is at the O3/O4 level. Regardless, it doesn't seem as though this was some sort of premeditated/coordinated act of Islamic terrorism from what I've been able to sift out of the news thus far. Looks more like this dirtbag allowed his personal/religious views to cloud his judgement and he up and decided to act on it at an individual level. Apparently this guy has had a stream of bad evals in the past anyway, a total sh*t soldier all around.

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MadameConcorde
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:00 am

This is a tragedy.

RIP victims.

From various witnesses it seems that the main suspect was a religious fundamentalist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqWn2WN_HjM&feature=player_embedded

He was filmed in a local convenience store on the security video the same day wearing religious attire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEnNkIATbgM&feature=player_embedded

This happened in Texas and the suspect is still alive. He will go on trial and there is probably little chance that he escapes the death penalty when judged. One thing he will never be able to escape is the equivalent bad karma for his horrible action.
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JJJ
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:09 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 28):
He was terrified of being deployed because he's a wimp

Had he been a wimp he'd probably tried to get a self-inflicted wound or something like that.

It's much more likely he was a religious nutcase who didn't endorse and didn't want to be sent abroad to fight fellow muslims and prefered to die fighting.

He knew he was going to be shot, he was a 'suicide shooter'. He'll probably think's he's going to paradise over this.

Remember WW2? Japanese-Americans were sent to fight in Europe, not the Pacific theatre, precisely to avoid soldiers doing these sort of things.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:32 pm



Quoting Greggarious (Reply 9):
It takes a long time to reach the rank of major, usually longer than either insurgency has been going on for.

Not always. The Army has direct commissions for professionals, that will not be in combat.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
This was an American-born soldier. He wasn't born in the Middle East. He's from here.

So? Radical ideas can come from anywhere. A lot of people like to bring the Oklahoma City bombing up as an act of terrorism commited by a born American. This is another example. If the guy turns out to be a radical Islamist him being American born doesn't matter. There are radical Islamists in the UK that have been born and raised there.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 36):
This happened in Texas and the suspect is still alive. He will go on trial and there is probably little chance that he escapes the death penalty when judged

I doubt this trial will occur in a state court. Since the crime was commited by an active duty soldier on a base he will get a court martial.

I am glad he is still alive. I hope he lives so he can be put against a wall and shot.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 30):
A very long time ago. 1961.

Doesn't mean we can't have one in 2010. I think this case warrants death by firing squad.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 37):
didn't want to be sent abroad to fight fellow muslims and prefered to die fighting.

Being a "head shinker" I doubt he would have seen any combat. I am sure he would have sat in his office building and done the same job he did here. Just because you are in a war zone doesn't mean you are in combat. A good example is my buddy, Alex's, dad who was a map maker in Vietnam. He was in country for a year, but rarely ventured out of his office.


Off topic, but.... This is a big important story, but there have not been very many posters. If this was a "would you hit it thread" there would be a 100 responses by now.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
na
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:00 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 38):
Doesn't mean we can't have one in 2010. I think this case warrants death by firing squad.

I think life imprisonment on a pork meat diet is better.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Look I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that he is Muslim... especially if those religious beliefs were possibly motivating factors. It's very disturbing, and definitely ought to be discussed.

True. That will be examined, and if found to be true thats indeed disturbing. I just read somewhere that he called himself a Palestinian - and he wasnt one. And that he probably made strange statements in an internet forum regarding suicide killers. Also that he was a medic having problems with patients because he behave strangely and that he was on supervision. A very mysterious case indeed - maybe a "sleeper"? Someone who turned islamist after he joined the army perhaps? (I´d wish the CIA could place such a nutcase to hunt down Bin Laden).

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 21):
So why the hell sign up and go all the way to being a major and go to Fort Hood in the first place if he didnt expect to get sent to the heat of the action??? Something doesnt add up...

Because believe it or not, there are some people who expect a "free lunch." The US taxpayers paid for him to receive years of education, college degrees, numerous state accreditation, etc. And there is a strong, well paying, civilian job market for those skills.

Freeloaders.
Anyone servng the US forces (or any forces everywhere) should be aware he/she could be sent to war. Someone denying that must be a complete idiot. And being a psyachatrist what did he fear so much. Frontline duty wouldnt have been much of a risk for him.
 
baroque
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:10 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 38):
Off topic, but.... This is a big important story, but there have not been very many posters. If this was a "would you hit it thread" there would be a 100 responses by now.

Well don't accept this as a reason but entertain the possibility that after 12 have been killed in a tragic incident, and a fair number of posters spend a large part of their posts urging a 13th killing to be made - most I assume in similar ignorance of the circumstances to that which I have - many do not feel that it is useful to contribute more. Not that I am about to argue there could be a good reason for killing any of the 12, but that hardly means I should agree that thirsting for the death of another person of whose circumstances I know nothing is a reasonable point of view.

So it might just be that a fair few posters rather despair of that type of discussion. Let's kill another. Na. Not today.

One a more general point, it is interesting that Islamic terror gets an immediate star as a cause and no mention is made of the fact that this is the how manyieth multiple killing this year in the US? And how many of the others were related to extreme Islam? None that I recall. And I tend to pay a fair amount of attention. So why is there such a rush to blame Islam and not the more reasonable, immediate hostility towards the predilection within US society for ALL multiple killings? Arguably with the numbers of this type of crime, you would only have to wait a short while before being able to pin one on your "favourite" group. If you think about it Falstaff, you might recognise that at least you risk this conclusion. Whereas Falcon and a couple of Canadian posters do not.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:12 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 38):
This is a big important story, but there have not been very many posters. If this was a "would you hit it thread" there would be a 100 responses by now.

 yes   Sad

It seems that this Nidal Malik Hasan was known for being a Muslim extreme. His name appeared on radical internet postings. Troubling portrait of the man:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...106/US.Fort.Hood.Shooting.Suspect/

Quote:
Born and reared in Virginia, the son of immigrant parents from a small town near Jerusalem, he joined the Army right out of high school, against his parents’ wishes. The Army, in turn, put him through college and then medical school, where he trained to be a psychiatrist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html?_r=1

He was selected to join a very competitive program that's run by the military that gives a college graduate an all- expense-paid four years of medical school, two years of residency, and two years of internship all on the government's dollar. He didn't have to pay a nickel for it. He full pay and allowances while he was going through this school. And of course, his payback to the military was to kill 13 innocent soldiers."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572450,00.html

 Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
comorin
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:14 pm

This was a man who went through an inexorable decline in the state of his mind. I think he joined the Army hoping to do good for the sick and injured, but became overwhelmed by several factors. As a psychiatrist, he did not seem to have the mental makeup to be unaffected by his patients narratives, perhaps he had an innate tendency to depression himself. The spiral continues when the mission starts focusing on post 9/11 objectives, and the enemy (incidentally) happen to be of the Muslim faith.

The man had originally declared himself to be non-practising, but perhaps he turned to his faith to find strength to stay sane. In this process, we see someone who starts becoming a pious practitioner, but is still a loner and orphan untouched by love and family. He tries to get discharged from the Army, even offering to pay for his training, but that is a closed door. He is terrified that he will have to ship out to Iraq, and finally just flips out.

The point I can't connect the dots on are the link between 'flipping out' and spraying bullets on innocent bystanders. I think childhood teasing (Columbine) or a sense of failure and alienation (Va Tech) may be that link?

I don't see any reason to go down the Islamic terror route on this, even if he cried out "Allahu.." no different than crying out "God Help Me..!" I just think he was a very disturbed person, ironically working at trying to help others overcome their own terrors.

His crime, whatever the reason, will likely and justly result in his execution.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting Comorin (Reply 42):
His crime, whatever the reason, will likely and justly result in his execution.

Thanks for that post sir. Barring any revelation that may come from investigation, I would venture there's little else to say on this matter after reading those comments.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
slider
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:31 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
It's being reported that he is indeed Muslim, a psychiatrist, and a strong and vocal opponent of the war in Iraq. This was going to be his first deployment.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 23):
Religiously motivated: Yes, at least partially. He has reportedly made posts on religious websites, glorifying suicide bombers. Reportedly openly spoken out against the wars overseas. Reportedly deeply disturbed about the prospect of fighting fellow Muslims. And may have been wearing his Muslim religious garb when he went on his murder spree.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

Major Nidal Malik Hasan declared “Allahu Akbar” as well.

Forget stress and whether he was on anti-depressants possibly. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. A Muslim terrorist who used the very institutions we hold sacred against us.

A radicalized Muslim who made prayers daily—sometimes in his ARMY UNIFORM no less—posted on radical websites and who was refusing deployment to an active theater. This man, and I used that term loosely, is an enemy of the United States—he made his choice as to which side he stands on. Execute him.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/...esolving_the_cognitive_disson.html

Great article that I suggest everyone read and reflect on—it’s time to call things for what they are. If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, eats and acts like a duck, it’s a damn duck. We continue to ignore this obvious threat to our existence—and indeed the survival of Western Civilization—at our own peril.
 
na
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 44):
Major Nidal Malik Hasan declared “Allahu Akbar” as well.

Oh my god.
Why did no on really notice? I mean, really notice. The army is not a liberal ad agency or TV station where every employee can do and think what he wants without no one taking care.
 
baroque
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:44 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 44):
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

Major Nidal Malik Hasan declared “Allahu Akbar” as well.

Forget stress and whether he was on anti-depressants possibly. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. A Muslim terrorist who used the very institutions we hold sacred against us.

A radicalized Muslim who made prayers daily—sometimes in his ARMY UNIFORM no less—posted on radical websites and who was refusing deployment to an active theater. This man, and I used that term loosely, is an enemy of the United States—he made his choice as to which side he stands on. Execute him.

That is not remotely what the article that you cite states. Let me quote:

Military officials were trying to piece together what may have pushed Hasan, an Army psychiatrist trained to help soldiers in distress, to turn on his comrades. Cone said the 39-year-old Hasan was not known to be a threat or risk.

"I'm not aware of any problems here," said Col. Steve Braverman, the Fort Hood hospital commander. "We had no problems with his job performance."

An imam from a mosque Hasan regularly attended said Hasan, a lifelong Muslim, was a committed soldier, gave no sign of extremist beliefs and regularly wore his uniform at prayers.
....
Retired Col. Terry Lee, who said he had worked with Hasan, told Fox News said Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq and got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars.

Braverman said at a news conference early Friday that Hasan was on deployment orders to Afghanistan. A military official later told The Associated Press that Hasan was to be deployed to Iraq. It was not immediately possible to verify the discrepancy.

The military official, who did not have authorization to discuss the matter publicly and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity, said Hasan had indicated he didn't want to go to Iraq but was willing to serve in Afghanistan.
.......
Officials are not ruling out the possibility that some of the casualties may have been victims of "friendly fire," that in the mayhem and confusion at the shooting scene some of the responding military officials may have shot some of the victims.

The officer who shot the gunman, Kimberly Munley, also was wounded.

"She happened to encounter the gunman. In an exchange of gunfire, she was wounded but managed to wound him four times," Cone said. "It was an amazing and aggressive performance by this police officer."

Cone said some 300 soldiers had been lined up to get shots and have their eye tested at a Soldier Readiness Center when the shots rang out. He said one soldier who had been shot told him, "I made the mistake of moving and I was shot again." The commander said survivors told him that during the rampage, soldiers "would scramble to the ground and help each other out."

Cone acknowledged that it was "counterintuitive" that a single shooter could hit so many people. But he said the massacre occurred in "close quarters.


It might be worth mentioning that they were not military weapons and in some countries, he would have had considerable difficulty bringing privately owned weapons onto a military base. And being a Muslim would not have made that any easier. You have a problem with gun violence more than with followers of Mohammad.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:13 pm

Reports are saying that Nidal Malik Hasan was not the only shooter at the scene.
Now it is -Quote) "up to 3 gunmen".

"A shooter opened fire. That person was killed. At this time, we are looking at 12 dead and 31 wounded. They are dispersed among the local hospitals in this area in Texas," said Lieutenant General Bob Cone.

The shooter was counted among the 12 dead.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091105...fp/usshootingcrimemilitarysoldiers

Police raid shooting suspect's Killeen apartment

In the morning, neighbors said Hasan handed Qurans and donated his furniture to anyone who would take it.

Neighbors described Hasan as a quiet man who began wearing "Arabic clothing" in recent weeks. Edward Windsor, a neighbor, never suspected Hasan was in the Army.

http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=36899

 Yeah sure
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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mayor
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 46):
You have a problem with gun violence more than with followers of Mohammad.

Lets not go down that road again.

The fact is, he took an oath to protect his country. No one coerced him into taking that oath. Reportedly, he went into the army pre-9/11. Any soldier, combat or not, knows that they may, at any time, be called to go into a combat zone. Since he was not a combat soldier, but a psychiatrist, it's doubtful he'd see any frontline action.

He'll face a court martial and I'm sure will be found guilty, unless he could be proven insane, but I don't know if the UCMJ has provisions for an insanity defense. In any case, this seems to be pretty premeditated, rather than a spur of the moment thing.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Twelve Shot Dead At Fort Hood Army Base

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:30 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 40):
One a more general point, it is interesting that Islamic terror gets an immediate star as a cause and no mention is made of the fact that this is the how manyieth multiple killing this year in the US? And how many of the others were related to extreme Islam?

This is a juicy story for the US media because it involves a Muslim, if the killer was white/christian, it would just be another shooting story (not uncommon in America). The media will undoubtedly try hard to find links to "muslim extremism" and anything else that might stir the pot and paint Muslims in a negative manner. Some fall for it obviously as seen by some of the responses on this thread.

The only thing that's puzzling is why this guy joins the US military (as a muslim) then freaks out over being deployed to Muslim countries. He surely knows that joining the US military there is a great chance his combat zone would be in the Middle East.
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