MD-90
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:34 pm

If you spell 'ridiculous' as 'rediculous' then I (and many others) will judge you as being either stupid or ignorant.
 
baroque
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:26 pm



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 50):
spell 'ridiculous' as 'rediculous' then I (and many others) will judge you as being either stupid or ignorant

I thought that was a value judgment on communistic philosophies. Tell me I am not mistaken. It would be two much to bare.
 
AverageUser
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:35 pm

I mostly have the reverse problem: I may know the spelling but can't pronounce the word.

Among ourselves we're able to communicate the spelling of English words by the virtue of our native language being an orthographically spelled one. You'd not recognize our rendition of "thoroughly" or "superstition", but it gets the job done without any spelling by the letters. At least there's some compensation for having a very complicated grammatical system and v.v.
 
DucatiRacer
Posts: 243
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:43 pm

Personally, I would be very happy if I never saw another reference on this message board to a car's "breaks". The word is "brakes" - same goes for aircraft too. Unfortunately, the worst offenders all seem to have the Stars and Stripes flying by their name, so it is not a non-English speaker issue.

My other pet peeve is the use of the word "mines" - unless the post is actually talking about multiple locations at which some sort of material is being hauled out of the ground.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12528
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:31 pm



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 44):
One I can't correct, We have

Comma then capitalized "We?" <----- FYI I hate that rule (putting the punctuation within the quotation marks), and frequently don't follow it in informal writing

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
One shouldn't be obsessive about other people's mistakes, but on the other hand it is rude to be and remain utterly careless about one's posts which the other members have to endure, don't you think?

There's a difference between "utter carelessness" and "not wasting time carefully editing a post on an internet forum." Most posts that I've read do not appear to be utterly careless.

Hell, this forum is leaps and bounds better than many others in terms of proper writing.

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 42):
I would, if it saves someone I care about looking like a remtard in the future for not knowing the difference between 'you're' and 'your', for example.



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 44):
Often feel like doing so.

My parents used to try and correct me when I used improper grammar in my regular, everyday speech. I eventually told them, "look, I know that I'm not using proper grammar, but I just don't care."

I'm not in the habit of using proper grammar in my everyday writing and speech; I won't be in said habit anytime soon.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
GAIsweetGAI
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:46 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):

True. Then again, given all the math I've done these past years, I usually use the inclusive or as the default. And I didn't really want to lengthen my post.  bouncy 
"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
metroliner
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:12 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 54):
Hell, this forum is leaps and bounds better than many others in terms of proper writing.

Mega-agree with you there!

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 54):
I eventually told them, "look, I know that I'm not using proper grammar, but I just don't care."

Fair enough. I do the same, too, sometimes. I've just had it programmed into me very inorganically.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 54):
I'm not in the habit of using proper grammar in my everyday writing and speech; I won't be in said habit anytime soon.

A pity - it's a beautiful language. But I'm an English grad, so you might forgive me for asking you to forgive my sticklery.  Smile
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:48 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Actually, "to gift" is now accepted in the lexicon as a verb.

Not by me!  Smile And if has been accepted, it can be unaccepted...I shall fight them on the beaches, and on the message boards, and in the blogs...

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 44):
We have a newsreader here in Sydney, very pretty and easy on the eye but cannot get a sentence right.

But hotness forgives much, does it not?
 
AM744
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:24 pm

I find your effort commendable.

Quoting Texan (Thread starter):
Remember that your only contact with many people will be through your writing. If you write well, you are more likely to convince them that you are credible.

So true. I can see a manager or customer asking himself "His language skills are poor, I wonder if his engineering designs pay attention to detail?" Valid questioning if you ask me.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
Also bear in mind this is a multinational community, many of whose participants' native language isn't English.

Thus, native speakers have a greater responsibility when it comes to use of English. I learn a lot from Web forums and they give me the chance to practice the language on a regular basis. Not being a native speaker is no excuse for not aiming for perfection.
 
exFATboy
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:55 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 58):
Not being a native speaker is no excuse for not aiming for perfection.

True, but it does mean we native English speakers can and should take that into consideration before blasting someone for poor grammar, spelling errors, or the dreaded "aircrafts" error, the single most common error on this particular board.
 
MD-90
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:20 pm



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 59):
True, but it does mean we native English speakers can and should take that into consideration before blasting someone for poor grammar, spelling errors, or the dreaded "aircrafts" error, the single most common error on this particular board.

I have to admit that I get annoyed by 'Airbii.' Airbus is NOT a Latin word and should never be spelled like that. The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Although I do realize that some users think it's cool, which I'm okay with.
 
TSS
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 60):
I have to admit that I get annoyed by 'Airbii.' Airbus is NOT a Latin word and should never be spelled like that. The plural of Airbus is Airbuses.

So you're saying that we shouldn't refer to a group of Lexuses as "Lexii"?  Wink
Can we still refer to a group of Infinitis as "Infinitae"? Big grin
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
baroque
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 60):
that I get annoyed by 'Airbii.' Airbus is NOT a Latin word and should never be spelled like that. The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Although I do realize that some users think it's cool, which I'm okay with.

I think quite a number use it because if 'twere Latin, Airbii would be incorrect. It is a sort of in joke. Wrong declension IIRC.
 
GAIsweetGAI
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:05 pm



Quoting TSS (Reply 61):
Can we still refer to a group of Infinitis as "Infinitae"?

"Infiniti" is already a plural... one Infinitus, a few Infiniti Big grin

Quoting Baroque (Reply 62):
I think quite a number use it because if 'twere Latin, Airbii would be incorrect. It is a sort of in joke. Wrong declension IIRC.

"Airbi" perhaps?

(Memories of long gone latin classes...)
"There is an art, or rather a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
 
Mir
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:29 pm



Quoting MD-90 (Reply 60):
Airbus is NOT a Latin word

Didn't the Romans once control Toulouse? That's close enough for me.  Smile

-Mi
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
baroque
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:42 pm



Quoting GAIsweetGAI (Reply 63):
"Airbi" perhaps?

(Memories of long gone latin classes...)

Depends what you think it comes from. If from Omnis, Omnibus is the dative and ablative plural and singular. But nominative, dative and accusative would all be omnia in the plural and omne in the singular.

The Germans have a different view of it all
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bus

I recently learned in Colombia you can get into serious trouble with small buses (or would it be busses?). Not going further with that.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:14 pm

Guidelines for aspiring writers:

Verbs has to agree with their subject.
Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
And don’t start a sentence with a conjunction.
It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
Avoid clichés like the plague. They’re old hat.
Also, always avoid annoying alliteration.
Also, too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies.
Parenthetical remarks (however useful) are (usually) unnecessary.
One should never generalise.
Comparisons are as bad as clichés.
Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
The passive voice is to be avoided.
Eliminate commas, that are unnecessary.
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earthshaking ideas.
Use the apostrophe in it’s correct place, and omit it when its not needed.
Even if a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
And finally: proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
 
Tiger119
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:02 am



Quoting Airstud (Reply 3):
Oxford University Press's style guide says it is acceptable to end sentences with prepositions.

Quoth Winston Churchill, "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I shall not put."



Quoting Comorin (Reply 11):
I, for one, am grateful that I can hear the voices of many around the globe

- I have only finished about half of the posts and I have enjoyed the comments. Especially Airstud's and Comorin's. Others as well. My first response to Texan's thread starter was that of humor. I thought it was humorous. I was also thinking of different areas in this country and how we speak. "What time is it right now?" "It is a 'quarter of' 1 O'Clock" versus "What time is it right now?" "12:45" In the midwest. And terminology is different. My grandmother (RIP) would say, "Sit on the Davenport" which translated to a country boy (me) "Sit on the couch." And the reason I have not read all the responses is, well, I must work. And at this time, I must start thinking about going home. Have a nice day and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all A.Netters.

STILL freezing in HFY,

David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
Westjet!Eh!
Posts: 93
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:08 am

Hehe.... My professor told the students to write simple English. It must be easy to write and read. That's all!
 
aero145
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:48 am

No time to read through the thread, sorry guys. But those I find important to talk about:

”Whom”

”Whom did you meet”, not ”Who did you meet”. ”To whom are you talking?”, not ”To who are you talking?” ”She is someone whom I admire” not ”She is someone who I admire”.

And again, as in the first post: ”Whose?” vs. ”Who’s?”. ”Who’s?” means ”Who is?”.

”Whose aircraft is this?” is correct. ”Who’s aircraft is this?”. would mean ”Who is aircraft is this?”
 
Doona
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:02 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
There's a lot of things in there labeled as "unnecessary filler", which I tend to object to. Those things that you call "filler" can (and do) add variety to writing, making it less repetitive, and thus more interesting to read.

My high school Swedish teacher said to me that anything new or different that grows language is good, and OK even if it is technically wrong. New additions that on the other hand shrinks or limits the use of language is to be abhorred.

So Texan, I agree with you on the grammar stuff, the "would of" drives me nuts, but I'm with Mir on the whole vocabulary-thing. Written text needs to be varied and alive. Which it isn't if we replace all three word phrases with a three letter word. And as a journalist, I need to be varied in my writing. If I put the word "about" into every other sentence, my editor would tear me a new asshole.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
RussianJet
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:41 am

I would have written 'legible' instead of 'readable'.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
iakobos
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:43 am

Surprisingly not a remark (yet) about the incorrect usage of THAN and THEN, undoubtedly a very common error for native (American-) English speakers.

Dutch speakers do have a mitigating factor as their own DAN is phonetically similar to THAN, though, it actually means THEN.

So, THAN is a conjunction, used to introduce the second element in a comparison.
eg: Mir is taller than Klaus.

THEN is an adverb and relates to time.
eg: he stopped his ranting for a while and then started again.

A language is said "living" because it evolves continuously in the sense of enrichment, not by improper usage of its basics.
 
RussianJet
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:51 am

Not strictly on topic, but I cannot stand the American construction 'different than'.

There is a distinct and very sound linguistic logic in saying 'similar to' and 'different from'. Think positives and negatives. 'Than' should be reserved purely for comparison, and while some might argue that 'different' is a comparative, it in fact is not in the pure sense, such as words like 'bigger' and 'noisier'.

But the worst such Americanism, the VERY worst and most ridiculous (and I know this has been mentioned before), is 'I could care less'. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH! it is so absurdly illogical to say that in the context in which it is so regularly used.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
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OA412
Moderator
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:43 pm



Quoting Iakobos (Reply 72):
Surprisingly not a remark (yet) about the incorrect usage of THAN and THEN, undoubtedly a very common error for native (American-) English speakers.

Oh my how could I forget that one. Another one of those common mistakes that simply irritates me. Maybe I'm overly anal but I just believe that a lot of these mistakes can be chalked up to carelessness and laziness.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
But the worst such Americanism, the VERY worst and most ridiculous (and I know this has been mentioned before), is 'I could care less'. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH! it is so absurdly illogical to say that in the context in which it is so regularly used.

It's absolutely rampant here. I've come across very few people who understand that correct correct phrase should be "I couldn't care less".
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
baroque
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:02 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
I could care less'.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 74):
It's absolutely rampant here. I've come across very few people who understand that correct correct phrase should be "I couldn't care less".

At last someone else. I was beginning to wonder ....... In some cases you wonder if they really do mean the opposite but questions to try and work this out are met it seems with a lack of comprehension or perhaps they just could not care less about what indeed they do mean.
 
petertenthije
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:50 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 73):
'I could care less'

Missing negatives and double negatives, like the criminal with the smoking gun saying "I didn't do nothing", are indeed annoying.
Attamottamotta!
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:50 pm

What about the infamous "irregardless"? I remember Stephanie of Monaco even used it in one of her records during her (brief) recording career.
 
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OA260
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:03 pm

When the Americans stop using the idiotic word ''deplane'' them come back and talk to me  Wink
 
Tiger119
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:18 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 78):
When the Americans stop using the idiotic word ''deplane''

- Should it not be "Disembark?"

Yes, it's still cold here at HFY,

David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
 
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OA412
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:55 pm



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 77):
What about the infamous "irregardless"? I remember Stephanie of Monaco even used it in one of her records during her (brief) recording career.

For those who watch American Dad, there was a hilarious episode entitled "Irregarding Steve" that dealt with people using this very 'word'.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
unattendedbag
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:25 pm



Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):
where lots (not lot's) of people come to unwind and shmooze about planes and travel and hot bods

Im not sure you can "schmooze about planes". Schmooze cannot have an object (planes).
Slower traffic, keep right
 
texan
Topic Author
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:43 pm

My apologies for my absence in the thread. I had company in town and could not break away for more than about five minutes at a time.

I also owe an apology for not clarifying this is mostly for American English. Other countries and regions likely have their own grammatical and usage rules that may vary greatly from the United States. Some of the suggestions I made may have universal acceptance. So, my apologies for not making that clear. My further apologies if I offended anybody.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 6):
Even if nobody is interested, the guide will still be be attached. Instead, please say "in case anybody is interested".

Touché! That is something I will work on.

Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 2):
Your hints are entirely wrong for scholarly writing. If you want to use it on a.net, fine.

For non-fiction scholarly writing they are pretty accurate. Many scholarly writers fluff their pieces with meaningless phrases or phrases that can be condensed and made clear.

Another point I should have made clear, however, is that I do not know how to write fiction and will not give any tips on fiction. Fiction writers may have their own set of rules. If they do, you should probably ignore my suggestions.

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 26):
I don't think the various comments will define a position we should all take

This is also true. I made suggestions, but they are not required.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 40):
Do you correct grammar mistakes in casual conversation?

I do. It drives my family and friends crazy sometimes, but most of them also ask me to help them make their writing clear and concise. If you can correct someone's spoken or informal grammar, then he or she will often stop making that mistake when writing.

And I also taught legal writing. In that course, my suggestions had to be followed. The list is influenced by former Texas Supreme Court Justice Jim Baker; and authors William Zinsser, Bryan Garner, William Strunk, and E.B. White. All of these men are great writers and great teachers. To truly learn to write well and express your ideas and arguments clearly, read their books on grammar, writing, and style.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):

There's a lot of things in there labeled as "unnecessary filler", which I tend to object to.

Your point is taken. While my suggestions will help make writing clear and concise, you also cannot lose your own voice. Perhaps a better suggestion would be: "Do not overuse these phrases" or "Use these phrases sparingly."

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
Klaus
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:06 pm



Quoting Texan (Reply 82):
Many scholarly writers fluff their pieces with meaningless phrases or phrases that can be condensed and made clear.

A certain elegance in writing does not automatically imply a lack of meaning.

Nor does superficial simplicity automatically produce a meaningful text.

Even embellishments can serve a purpose – it's just the question whether they are actually serving their intended purpose really well, as the case may be...!  cool 
 
Stealthz
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:38 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 48):
But which newsreader are you furious with?

You might do the ratings of Network 10 Late News a service if you watched regularly!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Scorpio
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RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:54 am



Quoting Iakobos (Reply 72):
Dutch speakers do have a mitigating factor as their own DAN is phonetically similar to THAN, though, it actually means THEN.

Actually, it means both then and than, making it even more confusing.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: A Suggestion For Grammar And Spelling

Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 84):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 48):
But which newsreader are you furious with?

You might do the ratings of Network 10 Late News a service if you watched regularly!!

Aha. But disregard the possibility that I think Tony Jones is prettier. For non-skippies, Tony Jones is anchor (hate that term too) of a competing program. And he leads on to the totally gorgeous Ali Moore.

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