planespotting
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More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:23 pm

There's an interesting article in the Chicago Tribune today, and it makes it sound like the Big Ten is seriously looking at expanding to a 12th school this year.

Jim Delany never will be a contestant on "Top Chef," but the Big Ten commissioner frequently has used a cooking analogy when asked about the prospects of Big Ten expansion.

"A back-burner issue," he has called it.

Not anymore. According to a league official, the Big Ten will release a statement Tuesday saying the matter has moved to the front burner.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...big-ten-foot-dec15,0,2684882.story

The main reason seems to be the lack of a conference title game, which makes for a December that's pretty devoid of the Big Ten.

It's somewhat surprising that Notre Dame doesn't seem like a likely candidate, at least according to this article ... it specifically mentions Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Missouri, Cincinnati and Louisville, but I suspect there is really nothing definitive yet.

I like the idea of Pitt joining the Big Ten out of the schools listed here, but I'm not really sure why. Rutgers and Syracuse are in New York/New Jersey, which doesn't really seem like Big Ten country, and Cincy and Lousiville don't seem like Big Ten schools. Missouri's in the Big 12 and seems like a good fit there. Pitt, on the other hand, is a tremendous research institution, has decent athletics and would seem to bring the same aesthetic that most Big Ten schools have.

But I digress ... any thoughts?
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Boeing4ever
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:28 pm

So, any idea how they're going to cleverly work a "12" into the "Big Ten" logo?

I've heard Nebraska get mentioned before. But that was years ago. I suppose this current list is the one.

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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:29 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):


But I digress ... any thoughts?

Maybe Pitt can leave and Notre Dame will come into the Big East fully finally. It is interesting that many of the school targeted are Big East school. I'm not exactly sure why the conference looks so good in their eyes. Pitt is a natural fit for the Big East, good athletics, good research, great fan base (well maybe not so much), but those are all typical qualities of Big East schools.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:46 pm

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 2):
Maybe Pitt can leave and Notre Dame will come into the Big East fully finally. It is interesting that many of the school targeted are Big East school. I'm not exactly sure why the conference looks so good in their eyes. Pitt is a natural fit for the Big East, good athletics, good research, great fan base (well maybe not so much), but those are all typical qualities of Big East schools.

Pitt will never leave the Big East. Missouri is a better fit for the Big Ten than Pitt is. I still find it hard to accept Penn State as a midwestern basketball school. They've always, always, been an Eastern team. Pitt would not only lose their identity, but also their biggest rival(s). JoePa specifically mentioned Rutgers and Syracuse as potential Big Ten expansion teams because he wants easy wins, which would not be the case with an up-and-coming Rutgers team. Syracuse is terrible in football right now, but it's also one of the bedrock schools of Big East basketball. There would be no way the Big East could replace someone of Syracuse's basketball caliber.

[Edited 2009-12-15 06:49:26]
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:26 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
It's somewhat surprising that Notre Dame doesn't seem like a likely candidate, at least according to this article ...

Not really, Notre Dame has a national TV presence with NBC. If they join the Big 10, would they have to give up that contract and have their games shown on the Big 10 Network which would limit their national exposure.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:03 pm

So, what do you name this conference, then? It would hardly be the Big Ten, anymore and we don't need TWO Big 12s, do we? Maybe we could call it the Dirty Dozen....  Wink
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planespotting
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:04 pm



Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 4):
Not really, Notre Dame has a national TV presence with NBC. If they join the Big 10, would they have to give up that contract and have their games shown on the Big 10 Network which would limit their national exposure.

True, but its status as an independent and the tv contract aren't worth as much as they used to be. Mid-major conference teams get tv viewers every week on ESPN and other networks, so it's not like it used to be when only Big Ten/Pac 10/SEC/Big East/ACC/Notre Dame were the only schools to get a national audience.

But I'm not surprised that Notre Dame still wants to hang on to their indy status - mainly that people just aren't talking about them as a serious option to expand the Big Ten. That's been floating around every so often for the last 20 years, so it just seems odd that it would be dropped now that the Big Ten is serious about expansion.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:44 am



Quoting Mayor (Reply 5):
So, what do you name this conference, then? It would hardly be the Big Ten, anymore and we don't need TWO Big 12s, do we? Maybe we could call it the Dirty Dozen.... Wink

We could call it Big 12 north Big 12 South. Throw all the schools in both conferences in, then divide the northern schools from the southern schools and so on. Unfortunately, it probably won't work out geographically.

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 4):

Not really, Notre Dame has a national TV presence with NBC.

In basketball they're in the Big East and they get excellent exposure. I think now is the time for Notre Dame to join the Big East because we're improving year by year. We already have the best basketball conference in the country, which has proven to send numerous players onto great NBA careers. It's only a matter of time before schools like Pitt and West Virgina and Cincy, and someday hopefully UConn will put the Big East on the map as a contender.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:34 am

It's not as big of a name as the Big Ten would want, but I think the perfect scenario for this is to move Iowa State from the Big 12 to the current Big Ten. Then, the Big 12 could add TCU. They could then move Oklahoma to the North division for better parity and the constant chance of a Texas/Oklahoma title game.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:57 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
Pitt joining the Big Ten

Perhaps...there was some uproar when Penn State joined, but it's pretty well accepted now, and Pittsburgh is closer to Big 10 country than University Park.

Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
Cincy and Lousiville don't seem like Big Ten schools

Nope, they don't.

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
I've heard Nebraska get mentioned before.

No way would they leave the Big 12.


How about Iowa State? I've heard they have some dissatisfaction with the Big 12 in recent years.

But then who would replace them in the Big 12 North? How about...Missouri State? Or Univ. of South Dakota?
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:42 pm



Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):
How about Iowa State? I've heard they have some dissatisfaction with the Big 12 in recent years.

But then who would replace them in the Big 12 North? How about...Missouri State? Or Univ. of South Dakota?

I think if that were to happen, you would most likely see a shakeup among the 11 schools in the North and South divisions, and then TCU would be added, IMO...
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:55 pm



Quoting KstateinALB (Reply 10):
I think if that were to happen, you would most likely see a shakeup among the 11 schools in the North and South divisions, and then TCU would be added, IMO...

I never thought of TCU, but I like that...then, who would transfer from North to South? Can you split up the Oklahoma teams?
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:55 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):
It's somewhat surprising that Notre Dame doesn't seem like a likely candidate, at least according to this article ... it specifically mentions Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Missouri, Cincinnati and Louisville, but I suspect there is really nothing definitive yet.

I like the idea of Pitt joining the Big Ten out of the schools listed here, but I'm not really sure why. Rutgers and Syracuse are in New York/New Jersey, which doesn't really seem like Big Ten country, and Cincy and Lousiville don't seem like Big Ten schools. Missouri's in the Big 12 and seems like a good fit there. Pitt, on the other hand, is a tremendous research institution, has decent athletics and would seem to bring the same aesthetic that most Big Ten schools have.

What would Pitt/Rutgers/Syracuse bring to the Big 10 that they don't already have (other than a 12th team)? They already have access to the Pittsburgh/New York/Philadelphia/TV markets because of Penn State (in fact, that's why they were added).

Just the same, what would Iowa State bring to the Big 10? They already have access to the Iowa market because of Iowa, and the two schools have an annual non-conference game with each other.

Typically, the main driver of conferences adding teams is money and exposure--not necessarily the desire to include schools of similar background and geography. (for more on this, I'd check out SI writer Stewart Mandel's "Bowls, Polls, and Tattered Souls--I'm interested in hearing his take on this)

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 4):
Not really, Notre Dame has a national TV presence with NBC. If they join the Big 10, would they have to give up that contract and have their games shown on the Big 10 Network which would limit their national exposure

True--while Notre Dame and the Big 10 are seemingly a perfect match, the reality is that there is no financial incentive for Notre Dame to join the Big 10--they have an entire network whose sole college football exposure is dedicated to them.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):
But then who would replace them in the Big 12 North? How about...Missouri State? Or Univ. of South Dakota?

If one of the Big 12 north teams were to defect, then the conference would have a bit of a situation on their hands. As of now, the conference is geographically split into TX/OK in the South division, and CO/IA/MO/KS/NE in the North.
Oklahoma and Texas are going to remain in the same division to guarantee that they can play an annual regular season game--(If OU were to go north, then the two schools would only play each other every other year). Oklahoma State will remain in the South for that same reason--so they can maintain their rivalry with OU.

I don't think they would admit TCU simply because UT would raise too many objections (mainly, they would be afraid of getting beat--back when Baylor and Texas Tech were included in the Big 8's expansion, Texas was forced to do so because of political reasons, and Tech wasn't as good then as they are now).

Arkansas would be an attractive target--but I doubt they would leave the SEC.
Basically, I'm not really sure what the Big 12 would do if they lost one of their teams, mainly because of the lack of attractive substitutes (and as much as I would love to see TCU in the Big 12, it's not going to happen as long as Mack Brown is afraid of playing them).

Now, a bizarre and wildcard choice for the Big 10 would be TCU. It would give the Big 10 access to the Texas and southwest television market, as well as provide an excellent opportunity for schools like Michigan and Ohio State to recruit in Texas.
I know it isn't very likely, but who knows? Should be interesting to watch.
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:41 pm

Has anyone considered "sleeper schools?" I mean some kind of "dark horse" college in the Midwest that no one has considered but somehow come out of this as a Big Ten school?

All of them that I can think of come from the MAC. But the only one that makes a lot of sense is Miami (Ohio). Great academics, a decent athletics program, and an enrollment that is larger than Northwestern.

Northern Illinois could also be considered, with an enrollment of 24,000, but I don't think their academics are in the category for the Big Ten to want them.

I don't really consider any team from the MAC as having a good chance of making it in the Big Ten, but perhaps there will be a surprise. At most, adding a MAC school would make most other Big Ten teams happy, as it would take some time for their athletics to catch up.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 9):

How about Iowa State? I've heard they have some dissatisfaction with the Big 12 in recent years.

But then who would replace them in the Big 12 North? How about...Missouri State? Or Univ. of South Dakota?

I don't think there's any chance of Iowa State. There's really no reason for the Big Ten to want them (no new population/fan base to speak of, not that huge of a revenue producer, etc ...), and there's really no reason for them to want to leave the Big 12 (they play Nebraska every year, and one of Texas/Oklahoma every year - both of which are big games for their fans). Plus - there's no other big time program north of the Nebraska/Kansas state line and west of the Mississippi that could support a D1 team. Unless a team like Northern Iowa were to jump from FCS to FBS, but as a public university with only 13,000 students, ain't no way that's going to happen.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 12):

If one of the Big 12 north teams were to defect, then the conference would have a bit of a situation on their hands.

Exactly - because neither Texas nor Oklahoma will want another team on their schedule every year with a chance at spoiling their season (with the addition of TCU, I mean).
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:09 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
So, any idea how they're going to cleverly work a "12" into the "Big Ten" logo?

I was thinking the same thing.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:13 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 12):
Basically, I'm not really sure what the Big 12 would do if they lost one of their teams, mainly because of the lack of attractive substitutes (and as much as I would love to see TCU in the Big 12, it's not going to happen as long as Mack Brown is afraid of playing them).

My guess is that if Missouri went to the Big 10 (the only Big XII school that I could actually see leaving the conference), the Big XII would choose a school like Utah, BYU, or Memphis to replace them with. It would be a school that would expand the TV market and is good in either football or basketball (or both). I don't think Arkansas, LSU, or any other SEC school would ever consider leaving the SEC for the Big XII.

I agree that no way does the Big XII take in another Texas team like TCU. The Texas teams don't want it because of recruiting purposes, and the other non-Texas Big XII members wouldn't like that either because they already think Texas has too much power. Besides, DFW is already a Big XII market so you don't gain any more TV viewers.

I'll also be interested to see what happens to a conference like the Pac 10 if the Big 10 expansion happens. It might force the Pac 10 to expand to 12 teams, and if they did, I think their sights would be set on adding Utah and poaching another Big XII team away (Colorado). So, if Missouri went to the Big 10 and CU to the Pac 10, maybe the current Big XII becomes the Big 10??? Big XII and Big 10 could just swap names.  Smile
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:28 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 12):
Basically, I'm not really sure what the Big 12 would do if they lost one of their teams, mainly because of the lack of attractive substitutes (and as much as I would love to see TCU in the Big 12, it's not going to happen as long as Mack Brown is afraid of playing them).

I personally think if this happens it'll be Missouri or Iowa State, both of which have the academics and location the Big Ten would want, I think Missouri would be the frontrunner (if they want to leave) because it opens up Kansas City and St. Louis, and Iowa State would probably jump at the opportunity to be in the conference with Iowa. Then I would guess, if this happens, Colorado State or Utah will go to the Big 12, and then Boise State shift to the Mountain West.
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:33 pm



Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 16):
I personally think if this happens it'll be Missouri or Iowa State, both of which have the academics and location the Big Ten would want,

'

I think for this reason Cincinatti is the ideal fit.

You get a school with a big market. Big potential to develop a rivalry with Ohio State in conference, and you get a fairyl decent university.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:44 pm



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 15):
the Big XII would choose a school like Utah, BYU, or Memphis to replace them with.

IMHO Utah and BYU are a package deal. I doubt either school would move to the Big XII or Pac 10 without the other one.

TCU is a different story, but might stay in the Mountain West if the conference allows Boise St. to join and leapfrogs the Big East into the BCS.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:31 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 18):
IMHO Utah and BYU are a package deal. I doubt either school would move to the Big XII or Pac 10 without the other one.

I think if either the Big XII or Pac 10 invited one without the other, that school would jump at the opportunity. They would still be able to have a non-conference rivalry game (like Florida-Florida State).

I still think if the Pac 10 expanded they would target a Utah/Colorado combo. And I think the Big XII would have no qualms in taking BYU.

But at the end of the day the Pac 10 has been pretty insistent that it really only wants 10 teams.
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Thread starter):

It's somewhat surprising that Notre Dame doesn't seem like a likely candidate



Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 4):

Not really, Notre Dame has a national TV presence with NBC. If they join the Big 10, would they have to give up that contract and have their games shown on the Big 10 Network which would limit their national exposure.

Exactly. Notre Dame's NBC contract is a huge cash cow for the university, both because of the direct money NBC pays and because it keeps the alumni following the team

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):

In basketball they're in the Big East and they get excellent exposure.

Two completely different animals.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
We already have the best basketball conference in the country

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

...no

Quoting FlybaurLAX (Reply 14):
Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
So, any idea how they're going to cleverly work a "12" into the "Big Ten" logo?

I was thinking the same thing.

Perhaps make it cursive and curve the T to look like a 2?

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 19):

But at the end of the day the Pac 10 has been pretty insistent that it really only wants 10 teams.

Remember, we used to be the Pac 8
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canoecarrier
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:01 pm

I'm not sure why you all think Mizzou would leave the Big 12 for the Big 10? As a Missouri alum I just don't see it happening. MU was an original member of the Big 6 then the Big 8 and now the Big 12. They have the longest running football rivalry west of the Mississippi with Kansas, which is also the 2nd longest in the country behind Yale/Harvard.

Being in the Big 12 allows them to consistently recruit well in football in Texas something that I don't think they'd do nearly as well if they joined the Big 10. Hell Chase Daniels probably wouldn't have come to Mizzou if he wasn't guaranteed to play at least 3 games a year close to home.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that they'll look to the east or northeast US for another school. No team is going to leave the SEC and TCU/SMU are too far away. And whoever said the Big East had the best basketball conference, what are you smoking?
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
We already have the best basketball conference in the country

        

...no

What is so laughable about that? The Big East absolutely has as strong of an argument as anyone for that. What, are you going to try to argue for the pac-10?  Yeah sure

You might disagree and argue ACC instead or something, but treating the Big East like the SWAC with a laughing response, get a life..
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planespotting
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:43 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Exactly. Notre Dame's NBC contract is a huge cash cow for the university, both because of the direct money NBC pays and because it keeps the alumni following the team

The Big Ten network has been a huge money maker for the Big Ten over the last two years, and Notre Dame would be looking at a similar (although not as high) payout each year. Their BCS payout (even though their an independent and don't have to split their share) is only around $4.5 million, and that's only if they get into a BCS game. If they don't, they get nothing. If the Big Ten gets a BCS bowl game, each school gets more than $1 million - if they get two BCS bowls, each school gets almost $3 million ... just for being in the Big Ten.

So don't think that the Big Ten would be a huge money looser for a team like Notre Dame, which hasn't won a national championship in more than 20 years, or won a top tier bowl game since 1994, when they beat Texas A&M in the old Cotton Bowl Classic.

Quoting Jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 22):
What is so laughable about that? The Big East absolutely has as strong of an argument as anyone for that. What, are you going to try to argue for the pac-10?

I think they have may have been thinking he was talking about the Big Ten?
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us330
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:47 pm

Regarding Missouri--there's no incentive for the Big 10 to add them since Illinois already has access to the St Louis market. And I don't think there's much of an incentive for Missouri to leave the Big 12, either.

The only school I could see leaving the SEC for the Big 12 would be Arkansas, and that is only because of their historical ties to the remnants of the old SWC conference. Considering the SEC is about to begin a massive TV deal with ESPN/ABC, though, I doubt they would be willing to leave that money and exposure on the table.

The Pac 10 would only expand for a big name historically strong program with a decent academic reputation. They have no interest in BYU because it isn't a research university, and considered Utah, but there is little potential financial gain in adding the Salt Lake City/Utah market. Same goes for Boise State, Fresno State, and Hawaii (they already have access to the Idaho/California/Hawaii markets because of regional coverage). In the mid-90s, they did consider adding Colorado and Texas or Texas and Texas A&M, but decided against it. Also, there's no real incentive for them to expand unless they could get on of those three teams.

Boise State isn't joining the Mountain West anytime soon (although in a perfect world, the Mountain West would add Boise State, Hawaii, and Fresno State). Apparently, there's no love lost, for whatever reason, between Boise State and the Mountain West.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 18):
TCU is a different story, but might stay in the Mountain West if the conference allows Boise St. to join and leapfrogs the Big East into the BCS

TCU would join the Big 12 in a heartbeat. They only joined the Mountain West this decade, and haven't really had a permanent home since the Southwest Conference dissolved. They'd kill for the chance to play schools within driving distance, since just about all of the Big 12 schools either travel well or have a pretty solid alumni base in the DFW area. Rather than go after Texas and OU's scraps, they could get some big time recruits.

The only problem, as I've said, is that the Big 12 won't invite them because of Texas (and probably Oklahoma, since they were beat by TCU not too long ago in Norman).

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 18):
IMHO Utah and BYU are a package deal. I doubt either school would move to the Big XII or Pac 10 without the other one.

Disagree. They might be pretty strong rivals, but I don't think it is necessarily a rivalry with any level of respect underneath it. I think the two schools flat out hate each other, and one would leave the other one in the Mountain West if given the opportunity to move to a BCS conference.
 
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:49 am

The teams they should consider:

-Pitt
-Cincinnati (although Ohio State may not want that, for obvious reasons).
-Missouri
-Iowa State
-Notre Dame (won't ever happen though).
-Syracuse

Beyond that, I can't think of many other schools that would fit the criteria.

Hate to exclude any MAC schools from that list, but I just can't see any of them, right now, being Big 10-ready. The closest one to being conistently good enough in most sports to be included would be Miami of Ohio.
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canoecarrier
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:15 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
The teams they should consider:

-Pitt
-Cincinnati (although Ohio State may not want that, for obvious reasons).
-Missouri
-Iowa State
-Notre Dame (won't ever happen though).
-Syracuse

Cincinnati probably won't happen for exactly what you're thinking.

Missouri won't leave because in my opinion alumni don't want it, they'd give up one of the longest standing rivalries in college football/basketball for what? They are currently competitive in the Big 12 North. I just don't see them leaving.

Iowa State doesn't seem like a decent option for the Big 10. Why would they want to add a college that consistently sucks at basketball and football? At least Indiana brings basketball to the table. Do you really need another agricultural college in the Big 10? It would be like adding another Minnesota, and they already have a team in Iowa.

Notre Dame probably won't be convinced to leave their independant status as most you have have already noted they have a lucrative TV deal with NBC.

There are some other teams that could be considered outside of the remaining Pitt and Syracuse, which I agree geographically make sense. There could even be a dark horse in a college like Vandy, but in my opinion I think it will be a team from a non-BCS conference maybe a Central Michigan or a Toledo.

I read some other threads that kept bringing up teams from the Big 12 but really? why would a Nebraska, Missouri or Iowa State want to leave? You could make a case that Iowa State might be persuaded by money but Nebraska and Missouri aren't going anywhere to say so is all Big 10 bravado. The Big 12 brings national champions from every sport men's and women's athletics.
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kstateinALB
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:16 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
We already have the best basketball conference in the country

Hmmm, I'd debate that and say right now that the Big 12 is very close to taking that away, especially with having the top 2 teams in the country right now...
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:42 am



Quoting Us330 (Reply 24):
TCU would join the Big 12 in a heartbeat. They only joined the Mountain West this decade, and haven't really had a permanent home since the Southwest Conference dissolved. They'd kill for the chance to play schools within driving distance, since just about all of the Big 12 schools either travel well or have a pretty solid alumni base in the DFW area. Rather than go after Texas and OU's scraps, they could get some big time recruits.

I too think they would leave. Even if the Mountain West became a BCS conference, they would probably love the geographic rivalries of the Big XII south. At least the Mountain West would have some good options to replace them. Boise State, Fresno State and Nevada would probably jump at the chance to join the Mountain West.

Quoting Us330 (Reply 24):
Boise State isn't joining the Mountain West anytime soon (although in a perfect world, the Mountain West would add Boise State, Hawaii, and Fresno State). Apparently, there's no love lost, for whatever reason, between Boise State and the Mountain West.

The reason given for not allowing Boise State into the conference is that they don't want to lose a non-conference game on the schedule. If Boise State comes in, they league would go to a Pac 10 type schedule with only three non-conference games per season. Most teams are going to lose at least one of those non-conference games to a traditional in-state rival, which leaves only a couple of dates per season to go outside the conference and either pad the win total for bowl eligibility or to take a BCS scalp.

I don't think they would have any interest in Hawaii due to the travel costs and scheduling challenges of a trip to the islands. I also don't think there is any interest in a twelve team league. That would require divisions and a championship game, which is precisely why the founding members of the MWC left the WAC in the first place.

The MWC was formed because longstanding WAC rivals were not getting to play each other consistently in the 16 team WAC that existed after the Southwestern conference dissolved. Five of the original Mountain West teams (BYU, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado State and Wyoming) had been together in the WAC for over thirty years. San Diego State for 20 years, and the Air Force Academy for 18 years. They bolted the WAC to preserve the rivalries.
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Falcon84
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:14 am

What about West Virginia? You don't think they'd jump at head-to-head against Penn State and Ohio State every year in sports? They''s relish that opportunity.
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us330
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:59 am



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 28):
The reason given for not allowing Boise State into the conference is that they don't want to lose a non-conference game on the schedule. If Boise State comes in, they league would go to a Pac 10 type schedule with only three non-conference games per season. Most teams are going to lose at least one of those non-conference games to a traditional in-state rival, which leaves only a couple of dates per season to go outside the conference and either pad the win total for bowl eligibility or to take a BCS scalp.

Just because they add one more team and become a ten team league doesn't mean that they have to play a round robin schedule like the Pac 10. Heck, the Pac 10 only started doing that when the season expanded to 10 games--and even then, they were able to preserve the annual geographic rivalry games by ensuring that you would face your rival every year.
It'd be pretty easy to implement--rather than play a team every team (except for your designated rival or rivals, if you want to be like the Big 10, which has a rotary like schedule, but guarantees that you have a game scheduled against your top two rivals every year), you'd merely play a team 7 out of every 8 years.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
What about West Virginia?

Forgot about them--they could very well be the darkhorse
 
tz757300
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:59 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
What about West Virginia?

No no, I don't think we'd want to leave the Big East. Backyard Brawl in everything with Pitt makes the Big East interesting, esp about football and basketball. Which also, our conference is too known for basketball to leave. Big East is fine as it is anyway, its a good mix of schools competing against each other.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
You don't think they'd jump at head-to-head against Penn State and Ohio State every year in sports? They''s relish that opportunity.

Though the prospect of playing Penn State again is nice, I don't think we could stand the idea of playing THE Ohio State. We just don't like them.
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Falcon84
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:01 am



Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 31):
No no, I don't think we'd want to leave the Big East. Backyard Brawl in everything with Pitt makes the Big East interesting,

Take it to the Big 10, and I'll wager it gets a lot more national attention. Bring both Pitt and WVa over.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 31):
I don't think we could stand the idea of playing THE Ohio State. We just don't like them.

We don't like Meechingan. That's what rivalries are made of.  Smile
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tz757300
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:05 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
We don't like Meechingan. That's what rivalries are made of.

Oh yeah, how could I forget, we still don't like Dick Rod (thought beat him over and over would be nice revenge Big grin)

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):

Take it to the Big 10, and I'll wager it gets a lot more national attention. Bring both Pitt and WVa over.

That would definitely spice up the competition in the Big 10/12/14/98. Though, if we both left, Big East would look pretty dull. We keep it together.
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USPIT10L
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:45 am



Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 33):
Oh yeah, how could I forget, we still don't like Dick Rod (thought beat him over and over would be nice revenge )

I prefer Coach Fraud  Wink

Besides, Penn State and WVU haven't played each other in so long, I doubt the rivalry would even matter compared to Pitt.
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futurepilot16
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:18 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

...no

Can you find one that's better? Umm NO! The Big 12 has faced no one worth mentioning in B-Ball this year as of yet. Kansas puh-leeese. And Texas isn't even worth mentioning.
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:24 am



Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 33):
Oh yeah, how could I forget, we still don't like Dick Rod (thought beat him over and over would be nice revenge

The Razorback fans in Arkansas and everywhere else will forever love Rich for going to Michigan. By doing that, he enabled one of his QBs, Ryan Mallet, to transfer to Arkansas because he didn't like Rich's offensive system. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Alias1024
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:07 am



Quoting Us330 (Reply 30):
Just because they add one more team and become a ten team league doesn't mean that they have to play a round robin schedule like the Pac 10.

It possible to do, but it has always sounded like they would follow the Pac 10 model over the Big Ten and sacrifice the one non-conference game. Again, I think it goes back to the founding of the Mountain West and the idea of playing everyone in the conference every season.

FWIW, here's what the commissioner of the Mountain West said at the beginning of this season when asked about expansion:


Quote:
"We spent a lot of time talking in general about expansion specifically, not about particular institutions. I think the conversation typically at a directors level has centered on maybe a 10th team will help us. But the real issue is practical scheduling. You really take away any scheduling for BCS purposes, if you will. Now, if conversely a team were to come in and really strengthen the BCS cause that would be reason for focus. It's something that we've looked at."

It sounds to me like if Boise State will put the Mountain West over the top, they will be added. Most likely it will be for the 2011 football season. That way they can give the required notice to the WAC and pad their stats for another season. Those win totals BSU has while in the WAC will count in the final four year evaluation when determining if the MWC gets included in the BCS or not after the 2011 season.
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planespotting
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:01 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 29):
What about West Virginia? You don't think they'd jump at head-to-head against Penn State and Ohio State every year in sports? They''s relish that opportunity.



Quoting Us330 (Reply 30):
Forgot about them--they could very well be the darkhorse

They don't have the academics. According to ESPN's Adam Ritternberg, they're ranked in Tier 3 of US News and World Report's national college academic rankings. All of the current Big Ten schools are in the top 71 (highest is Northwestern, at number 12, lowest are Indiana, Iowa and Michigan State, tied for 71st). I don't believe the Big Ten would sell out academics for a school in W. Virginia (the school doesn't have that much to offer the Big Ten other than a big time football program - no offense Mountaineers).
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tz757300
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RE: More Talk About Big Ten Expansion

Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:38 pm



Quoting Planespotting (Reply 38):
don't believe the Big Ten would sell out academics for a school in W. Virginia (the school doesn't have that much to offer the Big Ten other than a big time football program - no offense Mountaineers).

No offense taken, though I can feel right now it's starting to slowly turn around in the right direction. Now if the Big 10 wanted to increase conference beer sales, we are the school for them Big grin.
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