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ipodguy7
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:53 am

R.I.P. to those who tragically passed away, prayers to their families and all those in Haiti. God Bless Haiti!
 
Ken777
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:52 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 80):
Every administration we have had - Republican or Democrat - makes the same decision - to hamstring the military professionals until civilian leadership can be brought up to speed.

I'm of the opinion that in terms of overall policy it's OK to have civilians looking in charge and working together.

Then you get in the ground and need to get things done.

The experts there would be the military. Not the infantry boots-on-the-ground, but those experts at delivering supplies, construction (SeaBee's), MASH units, ATC. Name it and the pragmatic and efficient operations that need to be done can best be done by the military.

Maybe Obama needs to get Colin Powell to work as an intermediary between the military and "the others". Throw in that Raging Cajun General (Honore ?) and those two can get things moving.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 89):
This shows why Obama first sent the aircraft carrier.

I think he's sent in more than one Navy ship - at least one destroyer? And the Coast Guard who have been in place and been exceptional - which seems to be their minimum standards in times like these.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 96):
It seems that the Port-au-Prince airport is not able to cope with the influx of aid. What a logistical nightmare...

A good reason to use Miami and other close airfields to consolidate and manage the flow of supplies, personnel and equipment that flow into the country. Then utilize the ATC and communications that Navy ships can provide.

Maybe someone independent of the US can even get Cuba to free up their airspace for cargo planes and commercial airlines. Might be today's crisis that gets some doors open re Cuba.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:11 am

Personal update

It's surreal. My mom lost one of her first cousins. She initially survived the quake with a broken arm and leg. She was found the morning after at 5 AM and taken out of the rubble. Upon arrival at the hospital, there was no room and she was moved to a triage area outside in the street. She passed away later that day, it seems from internal bleeding and just from not having enough help down there to tend to everyone. Her son in Miami find out about her via these 'virtual' facebook searches that have been happening on various Haiti quake sites on FB. Sadly, I know we are going to hear more and more stories just like this.

So right now the main issue is getting to those injuries and people fast. To use aviation terms, its like surviving the crash but trying to get out of the plane before it catches fire.

People have survived the quake but since most homes are built of concrete and not the usual wood and drywall, people are buried under stone. Homes were raining concrete cinder blocks.

I got an email from another cousin who just spent Christmas in Haiti and lives on Long Island, where she is now:

I finally got direct contact from home. My brother-in law just called from the doctor's office to be treated for some minor wounds to the leg and arm. He was using the doctor's cell phone. The family is ok, no one was hurt even though he had to pull them from under the debris. The house collapsed and they had been sleeping in their cars. The neighbour across the street whose house was not damaged is helping but no one sleeps in their homes, those who still have homes. He can't use the car since the keys were in the house but a friend came to visit this morning in a motorcycle and was able to take him to the doctor's. For food, they buy stuff on the street and get help from the neighbour. I told him that internationl help is on the way but he has not seen anything yet. I am going to work today, staying in the house is depressing. With such destruction, it is a miracle that they all came out alive. Please keep them and Haiti in your prayers

So this gives a glimpse of how they are surviving day to day.

My uncle, his son and family are alive but we are still trying to establish how they are going on the day to day. Sleeping w/ neighbors or in cars? I have another great uncle who is OK and fortunately, his wife only has a broken leg from wall that collapsed on her. I alos have a great aunt who is a nun that we are still waiting to hear from. No word yet.

Some of these family members who are down in Haiti also faced Hurricane Gilbert in Florida several years ago. That leveled Florida. But this quake is far more devastating. I can't imagine going through both of these tragedies in a lifetime.

There have been reports of donations scams. The only real donation cause I know is to text "Haiti" on your phone to the number 90999 and that sends $10 to the American Red Cross. When you get your cell phone invoice, you would see it as a separate charge. It's a very quick and easy. Also there is Wyclef Jean's text "yele" to 501501 to donate $5.

I am thankful for what little positive news that we receive.

And to think, a year ago today (it was a Thursday night, but on Jan 15, US 1549 went down in the Hudson and a miracle prevailed.)


***moderator's note*** I unfortunately had to remove an off topic post what was completely cruel and unnecessary. Apparently one user, an American, felt Haiti didn't deserve our help. However, I contend that perhaps this anonymous user may have forgotten what it is to be human, let alone American.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:38 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):
Personal update

Mirrodie,
My thoughts and prayers are with you, your mother and your family. I'm sorry for such tragic loss, and I hope and pray for the best for your family.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):
***moderator's note*** I unfortunately had to remove an off topic post what was completely cruel and unnecessary. Apparently one user, an American, felt Haiti didn't deserve our help. However, I contend that perhaps this anonymous user may have forgotten what it is to be human, let alone American.

I think 95% of the A.net community thanks you for this.

On personal view:

It is with so much sadness that I see this beautiful country brought to its knees yet again. I was not thinking along the "Robertson line", but sure as hell Haiti has had some tough luck.

I've been there twice, as a tourist, and with my dad as a 6-month relocation. I've visited Cap'Haitien, Jacmel, Port-au-Prince, Port-au-paix... I really miss it, and I really wish there's something more than send money we could do from here.

I love Haiti. A truly sad moment.

I hope they can get through this, as they have gotten through everything.
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:08 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):

Mirrodie, my thoughts and prayers to you and your family. Its never easy to lose someone close. May they rest in peace.
 
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mayor
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:02 am

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the Haitian people.


I've donated most of my DL Skymiles to the ARC for Haitian relief. How about you??
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:37 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):
It's surreal. My mom lost one of her first cousins. She initially survived the quake with a broken arm and leg.

Thank you for removing that heartless comment. I'm sorry to hear about your family member, I think the response within the next few days will be crucial, especially to people who are injured. We can't allow these people, who survived being trapped under tons of debris, die on the side of a road. I'm touched by the images of first rescuers arriving to help.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):
There have been reports of donations scams. The only real donation cause I know is to text "Haiti" on your phone to the number 90999 and that sends $10 to the American Red Cross. When you get your cell phone invoice, you would see it as a separate charge. It's a very quick and easy. Also there is Wyclef Jean's text "yele" to 501501 to donate $5.

People can also donate directly to the red cross web site with a credit card. Keep in mind, avoid any E-mails that offer any free flights to Haiti. Avoid clicking on help ads from off websites. The only way to avoid scams completely is to type in the website's address directly in the address bar.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:24 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):
***moderator's note*** I unfortunately had to remove an off topic post what was completely cruel and unnecessary. Apparently one user, an American, felt Haiti didn't deserve our help. However, I contend that perhaps this anonymous user may have forgotten what it is to be human, let alone American.

American, Chinese, Lebanese, African, or whatever one is...... There is always going to be someone that has something stupid to say in tragedy. I remember some very insulting comments made by people from other countries, saying that the US deserved 9/11. No matter what the case is, I think sensitivity is cruicial.

Today I made a financial donation. I felt very good about it. Even Union 76 Gas Stations/Circle K has a dollar for dollar match on donations going right now. And my work is also taking donations and I am going to do what I can to help.

Hey, will Bill and Melinda Gates foundation help out in something like this? The worlds richest man sure could make a big difference.

Latest estimates are 50K possibly lost in this tragedy. I can't even imagine. 50 thousand bodies. Wow, it is almost surreal. Those poor people of Haiti. My deepest sympathies for those suffering there.  Sad
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:58 pm

Haiti earthquake caught on tape.

The video shows buildings collapsing in Port-au-Prince, Haiti
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a6_1263431503

From a hill top you can see what appears to be dust and smoke from the earthquake.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=296_1263354482

 crying 
 
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mayor
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:49 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 106):
People can also donate directly to the red cross web site with a credit card.

As I said, above, you can donate miles via the ARC website.
 
Ken777
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:28 pm

The Red Cross has been receiving some major donations - and they promise that 90% of your donation will reach Haiti.

Personally I'm donating to the Doctors Without Borders. They were actually there when the earthquake hit and I think their need is greater today.

For links to any donation on line I would only use very well known sites, like CNN or your local newspaper. Otherwise type in the name directly. There are going to be far too many scams going on these days. The bums probably started developing their scam as soon as the news got out the other day.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:44 pm



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 103):
I've been there twice, as a tourist, and with my dad as a 6-month relocation. I've visited Cap'Haitien, Jacmel, Port-au-Prince, Port-au-paix...

Thats more than I have been but I am tied to it and can't wait to go back. Would love to herar more about your experiences there, perhaps in another thread. A 6 month time there, I would love to hear about it from your perspective.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 107):
I can't even imagine. 50 thousand bodies.

And unlike 9-11, where years later, we have the technology to identify remains and give some families peace, the truth is that here, the bodies are being collected and simply dumped.

Only some are lucky to go to morgues. I am not clear where the bodies are being taken, being buried or cremated. But to think of the thousands who will have to be presumed dead.

I meant to mention this earlier. Falcon84s flag caught my eye (and I never see flags, dont pay attention.) Then I caught on that a few of you changed your flags to Haiti.

That's very touching.
 
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OA260
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:03 pm

Really is a terrible situation. We have been donating at work , we are a big organisation so will hopefully be able to contribute a decent amount to go towards the relief efforts. If everyone does their bit however small then it will make a real difference.


And amongst all the tragic stories a ray of hope. A 2 year old boy is rescued by Spanish rescue workers.




And re united with his Mother.

 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:16 pm

Video footage from the city showed bands of Haitian youths armed with machetes wandering the streets looting, as the local police were largely invisible.

Looting on Rise amid Haiti's Growing Desperation
In this CBS News video, men carrying machetes are seen walking the streets of Port-au-Prince
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01...orld/worldwatch/entry6097747.shtml
 Confused  Yeah sure

Anarchy rules Haiti
Who's running Haiti? No one, say the people
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14205092.htm

Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeg3yUWgHqI&feature=player_embedded#
Haiti is spiraling out of control
gangs are taking over Port au Prince.

Scientists comment on the Haiti earhquake
http://www.fleshandstone.net/healthandsciencenews/1738.html


Miriam Labranche had a simple reason to risk the drive out of Port-au-Prince to the border yesterday. "There's nothing to eat,” she said. “The shopkeepers are dead. The markets have collapsed.”
Miriam returned last night from the Dominican border with spaghetti, sausages, milk, juice and fruit stuffed in the back of a four by four to feed a family of ten and neighbours in the once relatively prosperous Delmas district of the capital.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...us_and_americas/article6988721.ece

"It's sub-standard construction," says London-based architect John McAslan, who has been working on a project linked to the Clinton Global Initiative in the country.
"There aren't any building codes as we would recognise them," he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8460042.stm

 Yeah sure  Sad
 
Ken777
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:21 pm

To add to Haiti's misery is the damage to the prison, allowing gangs and other criminals to escape. Haiti has already had some policemen killed because of this.

While I'm a strong supporter in the military going in to clear streets, get the airport working and manage the logistics I also believe that the UN should send in the "peace keepers" - cops who can shoot the SOBs who are killing and looting without the "blame" going to the US.
 
desertjets
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:24 pm

The projected death toll is very difficult to fathom. Unfortunately I think most of us were ready for the worst when news of the quake hit. A large quake so close to a major population center is never going to be a good thing.

Hopefully more tragedy can be avoided as the humanitarian efforts get into full swing. I do have to think there is a bit of luck involved in that the Vinson's group was in transit/training from Norfolk to San Diego when the quake happened. Having such an asset already operational, crewed and a days sail away really helps.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:47 pm

Well besides Pat Robertson's view of things.... there's always the FAR Left, to give their 2 bits:

Film actor Danny Glover made his assessment:

Quote:
“When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?”

Obviously, his opinion would be bigger news if Glover had – in the manner of some others – simply blamed a deity.

------------------------------------------------------
I believe the FIRST priority on the ground, to minimize #'s of DEATHS is to establish a perimeter for helicopters to bring in essential supplies of water and food, first and foremost. MANY things need to be done, but first and foremost the people need to drink clean water.

This blocking of the airport for sniffing dogs is really ridiculous to me..... They want to "try" and save hundreds, but the situation is so very critical, that THOUSANDS could die while the world looking for Hundreds ! ! ! What a Joke ! You HAVE to Balance out the needs of the MANY over the needs of a few in such dire dire situations. LIFE AND DEATH situations of this magnitude preclude the USUAL search and rescue "teams".

THE FOCUS should be on sustaining hundreds of thousands. THAT SHOULD COME FIRST IN THIS DIRE SITUATION. But the powers that be just can't operate any other way than their Standard procedure. This situation is beyond ANY Standard !

[Edited 2010-01-15 11:53:05]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:08 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 113):
Video footage from the city showed bands of Haitian youths armed with machetes wandering the streets looting,

I'm not condoning any such behavior but I have a question.

What is the difference between looting and scavenging food and water to feed ones family, children when the stores are destroyed?

One definition is that a scavenger takes food, water or clothing and a looter takes a color TV, cell phones, etc.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:14 pm



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 117):
What is the difference between looting and scavenging food and water to feed ones family, children when the stores are destroyed?

One definition is that a scavenger takes food, water or clothing and a looter takes a color TV, cell phones, etc.

A scavenger would be someone who finds food lying in the street. I doubt there is much of that. A looter would include those that takes food, maybe by force, from a person or family that has some. That is no better, because the people he is stealing from also need it.
 
MarSciGuy
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:32 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 118):
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 117):
What is the difference between looting and scavenging food and water to feed ones family, children when the stores are destroyed?

One definition is that a scavenger takes food, water or clothing and a looter takes a color TV, cell phones, etc.

A scavenger would be someone who finds food lying in the street. I doubt there is much of that. A looter would include those that takes food, maybe by force, from a person or family that has some. That is no better, because the people he is stealing from also need it.

Alright Dread, I accept and agree with your definition - however - If someone in desperate need takes food from a collapsed grocery that is abandoned, which is that considered?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:35 pm



Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 119):
Alright Dread, I accept and agree with your definition - however - If someone in desperate need takes food from a collapsed grocery that is abandoned, which is that considered?

Finders/keepers, I suppose. But like I said, I don't expect that there is a lot of that sort of stuff laying around (could have been different immediately after the quake).
 
mirrodie
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:57 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 112):
And re united with his Mother.

Let me tell you, I saw that photo on TV and it floored me, nearly moves one to tears. That's my son, my daughter, those big eyes and that smile. That's the face any parent yearns to see each morning.


Its a very happy photo in such a devastating time.


As of my writing, one of my cousins, a nurse in MIA, is flying in this evening. She was just there 15 days ago on vacation. She is returning to a different world.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:06 pm

A missionary from the Dallas surburg of Highland Park died last night in Guadeloupe from her injuries sustained in the quake. She and another member of the group from the Highland Park Methodist Church were being evacuated from PAP to a hospital in Martinique last night, when her condition worsened. The flight diverted to Guadeloupe, but her injuries were too severe and she passed away.
 
Ken777
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:16 pm



Quoting MarSciGuy (Reply 119):
Alright Dread, I accept and agree with your definition - however - If someone in desperate need takes food from a collapsed grocery that is abandoned, which is that considered?

It would seem that any food & water is stores should be handed out. Obviously the "paperwork" on the store's debts are either permanently lost or worth the dust that is only them.

It reminds me of the store manager for WalMart after Katrina. She basically opened the doors to the people - and told them to take what they need in the way of food, water and clothes. The corporate offices backed her totally, which impressed me no end.

Today, when you get down to the bare facts, the issue is keeping people alive. There is more money pouring into charities like the Red Cross than they will be able to spend in the next week, or month, on food.

News on CNN: Haiti has just officially turned control of the airport to the US. There is also another "Memorandum of Understanding" between the two countries allowing US Doctors to perform surgery and other treatments. (I guess acknowledging and approving their license).

Two major steps for Haiti.
 
Derico
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:19 am

Amazing story in the news tonight with feel good ending: a mother rescued from earthquake gives birth to child via c-section, and both are safe.

 
futurepilot16
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:54 am

Just watching AC360 on CNN, and he did a report on the mass graves popping up on the outskirts of the capital. Words can't explain, shocked I am to see that. They literally had 50-60 bodies piled into the back of dump trucks, and the back up the truck to a whole, and just empty it. Seeing lifeless bodies just dumped into a whole like garbage, as I said there's just no words to describe it. The level of poverty in Haiti, level of disorganization, the lack of gov't and law and order, is unlike anything i've ever seen before in my life. Just knowing that there will be tens of thousands of bodies in those mass graves and their families will never know what happened to them is something I still can't believe.
 
TheCol
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:01 am

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...rticle.aspx?cp-documentid=23267587
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...rticle.aspx?cp-documentid=23266943
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/201...mer-corporate-haiti-donations.html

- The Canadian death toll is now at 6.
- The Canadian government has prepared 50 million dollars for Haiti.
- Over 21 million dollars in bank and business donations have been raised.
- 144 members of the Canadian Forces DART (Disaster Assistance Response Team) are now on the ground, along with their equipment and air assets.
- Both HMCS Halifax and HMCS Athabaskan will arrive in 4 days with 500 personnel, another helicopter, and relief supplies.
- An additional 800 Canadian Forces personnel and sixty vehicles have been mobilized for a peacekeeping mission.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 102):

I couldn't possibly imagine what your family is feeling right now. My sincerest condolences for your loss.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:26 am

5.7 Magnitude quake hits Venezuela

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XtOUatn1OE

Another earthquake has struck - this time in Venezuela, which is also in the Caribbean region. The tremor's been confirmed by the U.S. Geological Survey. It's been measured at 5.6 on the Richter scale, making it a medium-strength earthquake.
There have been no reports of any damage or casualties so far.
Experts say the new earthquake could be an aftershock of the one which devastated Haiti on Tuesday - which was force seven in magnitude.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:58 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 112):

A 2 year old boy is rescued by Spanish rescue workers.
And re united with his Mother.

Both pictures are nice. Above the happy and smiling Spanish rescue worker holding
"his" boy in his arms, and below the pretty small boy smiling at his mother. The boy now has had TWO birthdays within some two or three years. May God be with them .....
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:09 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 125):
Just watching AC360 on CNN, and he did a report on the mass graves popping up on the outskirts of the capital. Words can't explain, shocked I am to see that. They literally had 50-60 bodies piled into the back of dump trucks, and the back up the truck to a whole, and just empty it. Seeing lifeless bodies just dumped into a whole like garbage, as I said there's just no words to describe it. The level of poverty in Haiti, level of disorganization, the lack of gov't and law and order, is unlike anything i've ever seen before in my life. Just knowing that there will be tens of thousands of bodies in those mass graves and their families will never know what happened to them is something I still can't believe.

What do you think would happen when the "big one" hits California, destroying major urban centers?
There won´t be enough morgue space to keep the bodies until identification and it is imperative to get rid of the bodies to prevent the spread of diseases.
Mass graves or open air cremation are the only options then (In WW2 Germany, after big bomb raids on cities, there often was no option than to make gratings out of railway rails and to burn the dead bodies en masse).

Jan
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:10 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 101):
he's sent in more than one Navy ship

-
I have no doubt about this, but you see, the fleet of aircraft carriers is what impresses NON US-Americans the most !

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 108):
The video shows buildings collapsing in Port-au-Prince, Haiti

Nice, apparently well-built buildings, with well kept front-gardens. A sinister warning to all who thought "in MY city, buildings are well built" !
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:53 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 129):
What do you think would happen when the "big one" hits California, destroying major urban centers?

I'm sorry but casualties on this scale are not a realistic prospect in California, nor is the development pattern consistent with great masses of people felled in the streets by structural failures.

Thousands...possible yes, tens or hundreds of thousands, no. As a case in point, the Hanshin quake in 1995 struck just 20 km from Kobe, a city of 1.5 million built mostly on landfill. Thanks to building code non-compliance and older residential structures that had never been retrofitted, the death toll was fairly high for a developed country at ~6400.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanshin_earthquake
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:09 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 131):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 129):
What do you think would happen when the "big one" hits California, destroying major urban centers?

I'm sorry but casualties on this scale are not a realistic prospect in California, nor is the development pattern consistent with great masses of people felled in the streets by structural failures.

Thousands...possible yes, tens or hundreds of thousands, no. As a case in point, the Hanshin quake in 1995 struck just 20 km from Kobe, a city of 1.5 million built mostly on landfill. Thanks to building code non-compliance and older residential structures that had never been retrofitted, the death toll was fairly high for a developed country at ~6400.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_H...quake

Ok, the US West Coast and Japan have earthquakes all the time so their building codes are suited to this situation and the buildings are stronger.
But, as a comparable example, take Lisbon in Portugal. AFAIK, same as in Haiti, the last major earthquake their had there was during the 18th century and virtually destroyed the city. Since then the ground has been quiet, but this doesn´t mean that there wouldn´t be an earthquake again. But over the time the danger has disappeared from the people´s mind and I´m quite sure that the Portugese building code doesn´t demand buildings to be earthquakeproof, so, if there comes another earthquake the numbers of casualties will be devastating.
Or an example closer to home:
I´m living in the German Hunsrück Hills just south of the river Moselle and about 40 km west of the Rhine. The hilly region north of the Moselle is called the Eifel and is a geologically active zone. In fact there exists a vulcanic hot spot beneath these hills, reaching from the Rhine to Luxembourg. The last eruption happened about 10.000 years ago, but the region is still active, as can be seen by hot springs and the fact that geologists observed that the ground is still lifting slowly. As they say, the danger is far from being over. Similar to the Yellowstone Caldera in the US, they know that eventually there´ll be an eruption again (which will be accompanied by earthquakes), but nobody can predict WHEN it will happen.
This means that I have some vulcanoes sitting about 30 km from my home. Now, do you think that any of the houses (and many, like mine, are more than 100 years old), have been built to withstand earthquakes? I actually presume that the old beam-and-wattle designs, like the one I live in, might withstand an earthquake better than most modern brick-and-concrete-slab houses.

Jan
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 17840
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:16 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 132):
I actually presume that the old beam-and-wattle designs, like the one I live in, might withstand an earthquake better

I would wager a guess that you're correct.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 132):
I´m living in the German Hunsrück Hills just south of the river Moselle and about 40 km west of the Rhine. The hilly region north of the Moselle is called the Eifel and is a geologically active zone. In fact there exists a vulcanic hot spot beneath these hills, reaching from the Rhine to Luxembourg.

That's absolutely fascinating - I never heard of that before. Thanks for giving me some more web research to do on volcanism in mid-continental Europe!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:09 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 133):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 132):
I´m living in the German Hunsrück Hills just south of the river Moselle and about 40 km west of the Rhine. The hilly region north of the Moselle is called the Eifel and is a geologically active zone. In fact there exists a vulcanic hot spot beneath these hills, reaching from the Rhine to Luxembourg.

That's absolutely fascinating - I never heard of that before. Thanks for giving me some more web research to do on volcanism in mid-continental Europe!

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eifel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_Eifel

Jan
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16146
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:03 pm

This has been a obscenely devestating earthquake. If the numbers of maybe 140000 dead come to be, that is maybe 10% of the population of the region of the quake dead. The already weak structured and poor government of Haiti can bearly help their own people. Logistics are a horror story, with fear of riots, violence and many more deaths before the situation can be stablized.

Despite the horrors on the ground there, if there is any good about it, it is the outpouring of help from the world to help the Haiti as well as those already there to helping them with minimal supplies.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:56 pm

Haiti earthquake in pictures: The unimaginable horror which has torn a country apart

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...ble-horror-torn-country-apart.html

How would you feel if this had happened to you, where you live?  Confused  Sad
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 6140
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:12 pm

The Norwegian government announced today that Norway increases it's aid to 100 million NOK ( ca 17.6 million USD ) . The minister for aid and development urged all Norwegians to give support to the various aid organisations.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/01/16/n...rdskjelv/naturkatastrofer/9962077/
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:58 pm

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:40 pm

You can use iTunes gift cards to donate to the red cross for Haiti earthquake relief. So, if you got a ton of iTunes gift cards for christmas (I know I did  Smile ) this is a very good way to use them IMO.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26186
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:35 am

A dilemma..... Thoughts?


Cruise ships still find a Haitian berth

Sixty miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, luxury liners dock at private beaches where passengers enjoy jet ski rides, parasailing and rum cocktails delivered to their hammocks.

The 4,370-berth Independence of the Seas, owned by Royal Caribbean International, disembarked at the heavily guarded resort of Labadee on the north coast on Friday; a second cruise ship, the 3,100-passenger Navigator of the Seas is due to dock.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...n/17/cruise-ships-haiti-earthquake
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:38 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 145):

Both American and Canadian fleets need to dock somewhere. I doubt those cruise ships will be there for long if there is nowhere else to go.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6797
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:56 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 125):
Just knowing that there will be tens of thousands of bodies in those mass graves and their families will never know what happened to them is something I still can't believe.

And unfortunately, its happened before. History points to the Holocaust as well as the Bosnia Serbia war's mass graves.

I've mentioned this I think elsewhere but 8 years after 9-11, we still sought DNA identification techniques. However in Haiti, they will only remember or long mourn the missing presumed dead.


***personal update***

-We learned today that my great aunt survived with minor injuries. She is a nun living in a convent atop a hill in an area called Carrefour. It overlooks all of Port au Prince. The view now from there, she adds, is unfathomable.

One wing of the convent building where she lived collapsed and 6 of her sisters died.

-2 other cousins living here have flown down to give medical aid. The stories being emailed back are heartbreaking.

Thanks for your words, your contributions and hope.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:24 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 139):
a second cruise ship, the 3,100-passenger Navigator of the Seas is due to dock



Quoting TheCol (Reply 140):
Both American and Canadian fleets need to dock somewhere. I doubt those cruise ships will be there for long if there is nowhere else to go.

The roads from the resort site are narrow, twisting things climbing over the hills around the sea coast. The resort newly completed pier has no cargo handling equipment. Any cargo shipped into the port would have be unloaded manually - then taken out in dozens of small trucks to Cap Haitian.

Shutting down the resort would put several hundred, may thousands of Haitian workers out of jobs, with no paycheck to buy food. Continuing to operate the resort keeps incoming coming into the area and the people of Haiti. It is a lot better than putting people out on the street out of misplaced sympathy.
 
acho
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:06 pm

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:49 am

A highly trained Mexican rescue team "Topos" or "Moles" was sent to Haiti adn has saved many lives, I hope that rescue teams can save many more.

I am quite surprised with the attitude that many people in Haiti have taken in respect to this disaster where they loot, steal and hurt other people. In the 1985 Mexico City earthquake Mexicans had an attitude of helping other people and many civilian rescue teams with no expierience in earthquakes went to rescue people form the rubble. The army had instructions to "shoot to kill" all looters, and if it wasn't the army it would be civilians who would attack looters.

I'm praying for the people of Haiti.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:50 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 136):
How would you feel if this had happened to you, where you live?

Difficult to imagine. What however from all the pictures becomes plainly obvious that also well built houses crash in case of such an earthquake. What however makes the fate of the Haitians worse is that they lived in a poor country with lack of infrastructure and organisation.
 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:33 pm



Quoting Acho (Reply 143):
I am quite surprised with the attitude that many people in Haiti have taken in respect to this disaster where they loot, steal and hurt other people. In the 1985 Mexico City earthquake Mexicans had an attitude of helping other people and many civilian rescue teams with no expierience in earthquakes went to rescue people form the rubble. The army had instructions to "shoot to kill" all looters, and if it wasn't the army it would be civilians who would attack looters.

Christ, can you imagine the screams of outrage if US troops shot at looters?
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 6140
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:36 pm

The USA has asked Norway about it's possibilities in providing ships for service to the crisis in Haiti.

Norway has one of the largest merchant fleets in the world and has historically provided ships in crisis situations. The Norwegian government is positive to the request

Article in Norwegian only:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/article3471727.ece
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6389
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:04 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 145):
Christ, can you imagine the screams of outrage if US troops shot at looters?

The usual suspects are alredy outraged because of the mere presence of the US military on the ground.

Speaking on his weekly television show, Chavez opined that the U.S. mission in Haiti was a ruse to initiate military occupation.
“I read that 3,000 soldiers are arriving, Marines armed as if they were going to war,” Chavez said. “They are occupying Haiti undercover.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl.../01/18/2010-01-18_hugo_chavez.html

The United Nations must investigate and clarify the dominant U.S. role in earthquake-ravaged Haiti, a French minister said Monday, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.
...
"This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Joyandet, in Brussels for an EU meeting on Haiti, said on French radio.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2010/01/18/AR2010011801850.html
 
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Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
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RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:14 pm



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 147):
The United Nations must investigate and clarify the dominant U.S. role in earthquake-ravaged Haiti, a French minister said Monday, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.
...
"This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Joyandet, in Brussels for an EU meeting on Haiti, said on French radio.

We can expect nothing else from Chavez, but the Frenchman is just being a connard. The US is the closest major power, and is only 2 hours away by plane. And oh, by the way, I did not see thousands of French troops arrive so fast (I'm sure they would be welcome if they came). Even nearly a week after the disaster, I hear that Haitian military and police are almost non-existant. Someone has to keep the peace.

The one thing that bothers the hell out of me are the journalists. There must be thousands of foreign journalists in Haiti - probably more than foreign doctors. Each of them has to be fed, housed, escorted around... They should have a dozen pool reporters and keep all the rest out so that the resources can be spent on the people who need it.

The last thing we need is Geraldo going down there, finding a puddle of muck to stand in and declaring loudly "It's really awful here." Yeah, well why don't you and your cameraman stop the show and start picking up some debris.

My wife is going to Haiti in a few days with the Red Cross.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Big Quake In Haiti

Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:46 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 148):
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 147):
The United Nations must investigate and clarify the dominant U.S. role in earthquake-ravaged Haiti, a French minister said Monday, claiming that international aid efforts were about helping Haiti, not "occupying" it.
...
"This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Joyandet, in Brussels for an EU meeting on Haiti, said on French radio.

We can expect nothing else from Chavez, but the Frenchman is just being a connard. The US is the closest major power, and is only 2 hours away by plane. And oh, by the way, I did not see thousands of French troops arrive so fast (I'm sure they would be welcome if they came). Even nearly a week after the disaster, I hear that Haitian military and police are almost non-existant. Someone has to keep the peace.

The one thing that bothers the hell out of me are the journalists. There must be thousands of foreign journalists in Haiti - probably more than foreign doctors. Each of them has to be fed, housed, escorted around... They should have a dozen pool reporters and keep all the rest out so that the resources can be spent on the people who need it.

The last thing we need is Geraldo going down there, finding a puddle of muck to stand in and declaring loudly "It's really awful here." Yeah, well why don't you and your cameraman stop the show and start picking up some debris.

My wife is going to Haiti in a few days with the Red Cross.

Actually I just read an article about the earthquake in the German Spiegel magazine.
A doctor of the German Order of Malta ambulance service said that everybody is happy about the presence of, among others, the 82nd Airborne Division. He, said that if somebody can sort out the logistics nightmare in Haiti, it will be the US military.
Even Cuba cooperates with the US military. They have opened their airspace for relief flights and have no problem with the US military using Guantanamo Bay as a staging area
for the relief operations. Actually injured Haitians have been flown to US military hospitals in Guantanamo Bay with Cuban consent (a good use of the empty planes on their return flights).

Jan

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