Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Mortyman
Topic Author
Posts: 5939
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:51 pm

'Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist'

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...Article/ShowFull&cid=1263147942240

Can we hope that all the parties involved grabs this chance... ?
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5050
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:14 pm

If this is true, it may be an interesting and potentially important development in the area.

However, I fear that some time within the next 24 hours we'll be hearing an official Hamas denial of this report.

Here's hoping I'm wrong...
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1686
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:37 pm

Lol did anyone read the comments below the article?
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:02 pm

Maybe a rift between the exiled top HAMAS leadership in Damaskus and the HAMAS members, who are actually living in the Gaza strip. The first ones tend to put the purity of the ideology above anything else, while the later share the hardships of living in Gaza with the local population and have a much more pragmatic stance.


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:54 pm

Pardon me if I take their statement with less than full face value. I do hope it is true, but we've seen this song and dance before by them.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15828
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:24 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
'Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist'

Suggest deletion. April Fool's Day posts shouldn't be occurring until April 1st.  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JJJ
Posts: 4039
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:06 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
but we've seen this song and dance before by them.

Ehm, no. This is a first.

Remember we're talking Islamic Hamas here, not secular Fatah.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14561
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:03 pm



Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):

Remember we're talking Islamic Hamas here, not secular Fatah.

Regardless, this requires more verification before it can be taken as truth.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:55 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Pardon me if I take their statement with less than full face value. I do hope it is true, but we've seen this song and dance before by them.

I agree Falcon , but those are big words to come out of any Hammas member. Its a foundational issue for them and even the utterance of those words is amazing to me.

It may have something to do with Israel's final operational test of the Iron Dome system this month. (AWST Jan09) Essentially Israel can now shoot down Hammas rockets fired in salvos and from 2 to 50 miles away. The test engaged and destroyed Qassam class (type ) rockets fired in a salvo , and destroyed multiples.

Man it must be tough being on the other side of the fence from Israel ....
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
usair320
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:53 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:05 pm

As much as I dislike John Bolton he did have a pretty damn good point on how a two state solution would not be the best solution for peace . What talked about was a three state solution where Israel would exist within it's current borders (minus the settlements in the west bank), all residents of the Gaza strip would be granted Egyptian citizenship (thus making Gaza part of Egypt), and citizens of the West bank would be granted Jordanian citizenship (thus making it part of Jordan).

That all aside if Hamas truely said this (which knowing them is a big if) then maybe we can begin negotiations for a two state solution. Although I will admit that I'm not sure if all that much would change with a two state solution.
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:15 pm



Quoting Usair320 (Reply 9):
all residents of the Gaza strip would be granted Egyptian citizenship (thus making Gaza part of Egypt),

Nobody in Egypt will accept this. It looks like another Balfour agreement. John Bolton can not take or give anything.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:17 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
'Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist'

All this is so far is a comment. I'll believe it when Hamas actually changes their charter, and all talk about exterminating Israel and Jews ceases.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
usair320
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:53 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:44 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 10):

Nobody in Egypt will accept this. It looks like another Balfour agreement. John Bolton can not take or give anything.

Can you give some insight on how the Jordanians wold accept those from the West Bank?
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:05 pm

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 12):
Can you give some insight on how the Jordanians wold accept those from the West Bank?

They will not either. Mr. Bolton is living in LaLa land.
This idea will eliminate any hope for a Palestinian state

[Edited 2010-01-22 12:08:03]

[Edited 2010-01-22 12:08:41]
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 10201
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:39 pm



Quoting Usair320 (Reply 12):
Can you give some insight on how the Jordanians wold accept those from the West Bank?

Wasn't the West Bank part of Jordan in the first place? And most inhabitants of Jordan are Palestinian.

But they would never accept it for religious reasons.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:26 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
Wasn't the West Bank part of Jordan in the first place?

Kinda sorta not really. The West Bank was designated by the UN as part of the Arab State in the initial division of the British mandate of Palestine. At the conclusion of the 1948 war, Jordanian and Iraqi forces occupied the West Bank, and Jordan annexed that territory, though that annexation was only recognized by Jordan and the UK. Israel conquered the territory in the Six-Day War in 1967. At the 1974 Arab League summit in Rabat, it was unanimously agreed that the PLO was the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinians in the West Bank; with this agreement, Jordan surrendered its claims to that territory.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
And most inhabitants of Jordan are Palestinian.

Not true. The population of Jordan is just over 6 million. There are just under 2 million Palestinian refugees in the country, most of whom are Jordanian citizens. So yes, a significant portion of Jordanians are Palestinian, but not most.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
But they would never accept it for religious reasons.

Not religious reasons, economic reasons. The West Bank is woefully underdeveloped. If it were to join Jordan, it would be a drain on their country's resources. They want the West Bank to be Israel's problem, not theirs. Same with the Gaza Strip vis a vis Egypt.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
cpd
Posts: 6742
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:47 pm



Quoting Usair320 (Reply 9):
As much as I dislike John Bolton he did have a pretty damn good point on how a two state solution would not be the best solution for peace . What talked about was a three state solution where Israel would exist within it's current borders (minus the settlements in the west bank), all residents of the Gaza strip would be granted Egyptian citizenship (thus making Gaza part of Egypt), and citizens of the West bank would be granted Jordanian citizenship (thus making it part of Jordan).

And make Israel a part of Syria - then it'll all be even and equal, because all the major players lose. Palestine doesn't get a state, Israel loses their state. Neither side can complain because they both end up in the same predicament.

Bolton's kind of plan is not fair, and it would be seen by many as a victory for Israel by many.

This wouldn't achieve peace or stability.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:16 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
a rift between the exiled top HAMAS leadership in Damaskus and the HAMAS members, who are actually living in the Gaza strip. The first ones tend to put the purity of the ideology above anything else, while the later share the hardships of living in Gaza with the local population and have a much more pragmatic stance.

-
NO --- NO .
A) the exiled bureaucracy of Hamas in Damascus for years now has co-operated with a government which not only since 1976 has accepted the right of Israel to exist but has made lots of agreements with Israel. Which means that what they feared was to be regarded as being too compromising.
B) exactly the local Hamas inside the Gaza Territory was the one to insist on hardline positions. As soon as THEY really start to get to a pragmatist stance, their fellows in Damascus will follow.

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 9):
all residents of the Gaza strip would be granted Egyptian citizenship (thus making Gaza part of Egypt), and citizens of the West bank would be granted Jordanian citizenship (thus making it part of Jordan).

-
First to Jordan. King Hussein ceded the Jordanian claims onto the West Bank in favour of the PLO (which does not include Hamas, btw) in his peace treaty with Israel. Citizens of the WestBank technically still ARE citizens of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan nevertheless (the Haram-al-Sharif by agreement with the Israelis still is guarded by Jordanian soldiers). BUT, the West Bank legally and clearly INCLUDES East-Jerusalem, which means that in such a case, Israeli settlers in East Jerusalem so will become FOREIGN home-owners and land-owners inside the Hashemite Kingdom.

Second to Gaza. Gaza between 1948 and 1967 was inside the borders of Egypt (Kingdom of Egypt / Republic of Egypt / United Arab Republic) but kept separate as part of "Palestine". "Gaza Palestinians" however are the same folks as those "Egyptians" in the elArish Directorate. Egypt might rather hand over most parts of the elArish Directorate to Israel, making sure that there will be an Arab majority in Israel !

If however, the USA offers some 100 bio. US$ to Egypt for integrating the Gaza Territory, Mr Mubarak will gladly agree !  Big grin

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 10):
all residents of the Gaza strip would be granted Egyptian citizenship (thus making Gaza part of Egypt),
Nobody in Egypt will accept this.

-
Much depends on how many billions of US$ the USA is ready to pay !!  Wink  Wink  Smile
 
usair320
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:53 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:52 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 13):
This idea will eliminate any hope for a Palestinian state

The whole point is to avoid a Palestinian state altogether. In my perfect world a two state solution would be ideal, but I'm simply not convinced much would change beeween the Israelies and the Palestinians. The Palestinians would continue to fire rockets into Israel and the Israelies would continue to retaliate with airstrikes.The reason for the ongoing tension beetween the two goes much deeper than a simple land dispute. At the core it is a holy war and anyone who dosen't get that simply dosen't know their history. Personally I would like someone more moderate than the Laikud Party to be in power in Israel, but Hamas takes extreme to a whole new level. Maybe if the government in Palestine was more moderate I would be thinking differently, but I unfortunately have to base my opinion on cold hard facts.
 
N537FX
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:32 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:56 am

 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:59 am



Quoting N537FX (Reply 19):
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...ast/2010/01/20101230202291283.html

Why i am not surprised?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
Scorpio
Posts: 5050
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:46 am



Quoting N537FX (Reply 19):
News Flash!!!

As I feared and predicted...
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3950
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:42 am



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
As I feared and predicted...

it is very well known that they never miss a chance to miss a chance  Yeah sure
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:04 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
even the utterance of those words is amazing to me.

WADR AGM if you are amazed, it shows you have not been paying attention either to Hamas or indeed to Hamas being reported on a.net. There has been a move to recognize Israel for some years. As the AlJ report shows that still has some opposition. As one stage Hamas was saying it would at least drop that part of its basic statement if Israel would drop its blockade of Gaza. It may well be that Israel has let that opportunity pass and the offer is no longer on the table.

It is not only Palestine that never fails to miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And with Gaza the status quo suits Israel fine. Any problems and they can test a few more weapons for the US. Being recognised by Hamas would be most inconvenient, they might even have to talk to them, worse still ACT on agreements. OMG!!

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
A) the exiled bureaucracy of Hamas in Damascus for years now has co-operated with a government which not only since 1976 has accepted the right of Israel to exist but has made lots of agreements with Israel. Which means that what they feared was to be regarded as being too compromising.

 checkmark 
 
usair320
Posts: 909
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:53 am

RE: Hamas Accepts Israel's Right To Exist

Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:19 pm



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 22):

it is very well known that they never miss a chance to miss a chance

You can say that again.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], marcelh and 190 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos