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kc135topboom
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Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:44 pm

Discretionary spending in the US is essentially everything the government buys. It includes large portions of the defense budget and GSA purchases or services. It also includes pork projects that members of Congress want.

While I agree that all pork projects should go, I disagree on defense spending. This may be "discretionary", but they are also a Constitutional requirement and social programs are not.

It seems the President wants to freeze discretionary items but continue on with his yet to be approved social programs like 'health care reform'.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.pJ5uNs8bNc
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:12 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
I disagree on defense spending.

I don't. if you can find some of the waste there, why not cut it? Just because it's defense doesn't mean you just allow them to spend with a blank check. They work for US, not the other way around, KC, so they're not a sacred cow.

They should be asked to keep their spending under control as much as anyone else. Just because they want the latest and greatest gadget, doesn't mean they need it, and should not be rubber stamped.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:57 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
While I agree that all pork projects should go, I disagree on defense spending. This may be "discretionary", but they are also a Constitutional requirement and social programs are not.

While I agree in principle, the fact is that there is a humongous amount of waste in the defense procurement sector. Why does it take 20 years and tens of billions of dollars to develop a new artillery piece and a whole lot more to develop an airplane? That whole process needs to be rethunk so that the contractors share some of the financial risk, and thus have an incentive to have the product in production within a period of time commensurate to getting a return on investment.

In the 1940s, the greatest fighter of the war, the P-51 Mustang was developed, from concept to first flight of the prototype, in just 100 days, and was developed entirely using company funds, not under a government contract. Now of course planes are much more complicated, but 20 years???
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kc135topboom
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:00 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
I disagree on defense spending.

I don't. if you can find some of the waste there, why not cut it? Just because it's defense doesn't mean you just allow them to spend with a blank check. They work for US, not the other way around, KC, so they're not a sacred cow.

They should be asked to keep their spending under control as much as anyone else. Just because they want the latest and greatest gadget, doesn't mean they need it, and should not be rubber stamped.

There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare. The proposed heath care reform bills promise even more waste and fraud. I say lets begin with the biggest cases of waste first, then work our way down through the entire list.

But, Obama is still playing games with the budgets, now he promises to work on the deficit, beginning AFTER the Nov. elections. WTF? Does he think we are all stupid?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31899.html

This plan to force Congress to pass onlyn what the President wants reeks of a violation of the Constitutional mandated seperation of powers. Congress and the SCOTUS will be all over this.
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:08 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
Obama is still playing games with the budgets, now he promises to work on the deficit, beginning AFTER the Nov. elections. WTF? Does he think we are all stupid?

He is a realist. He wants to see what he is up against before he tries to invest in this country. What is the problem with that?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

No, you are right. Spending infinitely to bomb the snot out of everyone else is much better than seeing that our own tax payers can at least eat and have access to a doctor.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
This plan to force Congress to pass onlyn what the President wants reeks of a violation of the Constitutional mandated seperation of powers. Congress and the SCOTUS will be all over this.

But, when it was done under the last president, it was acceptable? Uh... huh?

We all know you hate Dems and Obama, KC. Why is this exactly news? I would guess you are pissed off that the Dems spending is supposedly out of control so they are trying to do something about it and you are pissed off about that. This is a perfect example of how righties put party before country.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:51 pm

Odd think about Port - a lot of the money goes to local projects that need to get done. While it has a bad name there has also been an understanding that Reps & Senators know what needs to be done in their states more than and administration.

So if we cut out port maybe we can return the money to the states - each state getting the exact funds they sent - and let each state determine which projects are to get done.

Of course, that would lead to some problems, like ensuring a new interstate highway actually meets at the state lines where they need to meet. Otherwise we might end up taking a 2 lane country road from the end of one states to the start of the next state's.

Same with education dollars? That would be a fun issue to watch.

Defense would also get a hit. Re-engine the KC-135s if it's cheaper than a new tanker. But there goes my hopes of 3 or 4 real Battleships with 16" guns for REAL shore support.

Just like with the Tea Party shouting, I want to see a list of what will be cut, and intelligent discussion of a cut or shifting payment to states or individuals.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:19 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):

There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

When it takes years and years and years to, as Charles said, come up with a new aircraft, or a new artillery piece? Remember all the stories a few years back, about the $10,000 toilet seats and the like that were on the military's books?

I think there's just as much waste, just as much bureaucracy, just as much redundancy in jobs within that bureaucracy as there is in any civilian program. Maybe more. And it should be dealt with in the same way-severely.

But one of the big problems in this nation-not just in the military, but in civilian programs, like you mentioned-IS that permanent bureaucracy, which protects itself like a momma bear protecting her cubs. It has survived attempt after attempt by president's and congresses-controlled by both parties-to tame it. Taming that bureaucracy would save us billions a year, and would make so many programs, defense and otherwise, work better and be so much less wasteful.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:56 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
Obama is still playing games with the budgets, now he promises to work on the deficit, beginning AFTER the Nov. elections. WTF? Does he think we are all stupid?

He is a realist. He wants to see what he is up against before he tries to invest in this country. What is the problem with that?

A realist? You, my friend need to pull your head out of the sand. He knows what he is up against, he reads the papers, and watches MSNBC and CNN (but not FoxNews or the Drudge Report). This is an attempt at grabbing power for the Congress. Do you know why he wants to wait until November to put his panel in place? Because that is when the Republicans will take control of Congress, and the government checkbook.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

No, you are right. Spending infinitely to bomb the snot out of everyone else is much better than seeing that our own tax payers can at least eat and have access to a doctor.

I have scene to many people sell the food they bought with their LoneStar Card (how welfair is distributed here in TX), at a discount, and use the money to by drugs and booze.

Who in the US that is ill or injured is denied seeing a doctor in a hospiutal emergency room?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
This plan to force Congress to pass onlyn what the President wants reeks of a violation of the Constitutional mandated seperation of powers. Congress and the SCOTUS will be all over this.

But, when it was done under the last president, it was acceptable? Uh... huh?

I'm calling you on that, when did President Buish set up a panel to direct Congress on what to spend on what. Come on, prove it, you said it Seb146, now put up or shut up.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
We all know you hate Dems and Obama, KC

I don't hate the Dems or Obama, I just don't like what they are doing to MY country. Apparently some 58% of the country agrees with me.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 4):
I would guess you are pissed off that the Dems spending is supposedly out of control so they are trying to do something about it and you are pissed off about that. This is a perfect example of how righties put party before country.

In FY-2009, that just ended, the Democrat Congress and President over spent the budget by $1.4 TRILLION. Am I pissed off at that, you bet your ass I am.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
Defense would also get a hit. Re-engine the KC-135s if it's cheaper than a new tanker. But there goes my hopes of 3 or 4 real Battleships with 16" guns for REAL shore support.

I fully agree with you there, Ken. Re-engine the KC-135Es and recommission the 4 Iowa class BBs, instead of the jokes of the KC-X and DDG-1000 USS Zumwalt ( a class of 1 ship).

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):

There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

When it takes years and years and years to, as Charles said, come up with a new aircraft, or a new artillery piece? Remember all the stories a few years back, about the $10,000 toilet seats and the like that were on the military's books?

It also take years to design test and build a new car model. Yes, I remember the $10K toilet seat. It was a speicial design for airplanes (the C-5) and only produced for the 115 of them. Low production rates tend to push the unit price up. Did you notice Congress did nothing about it, except make headlines about it?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:09 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
he reads the papers, and watches MSNBC and CNN (but not FoxNews or the Drudge Report).

Why WOULD he watch FOX or read Drudge? They're both right-wing propoganda outlets. MSNBC is certainly to the left, but CNN, whether you and the right like it or not, is not a left-wing FOX.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):

It also take years to design test and build a new car model.

Now you're comparing the private sector with the military. Doesn't work. And, yes, you are right, though, there is also bureaucracy in provate sector companies, too. But we're talking the government here, not Ford.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:14 am

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Obama has neither the power nor the intention of slowing down spending, but he has little to lose by posing as a fiscal conservative. All part of a re-branding effort to distance the President from the radical liberalism we witnessed in year one.
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seb146
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:35 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I don't hate the Dems or Obama, I just don't like what they are doing to MY country.

So, from your statement, you believe Dems and Obama are foreign entities? They have a vision for this country that is not spend spend spend with no way of paying for it, like the republicans had under Bush. When anyone had a problem with that way of thinking, we were told we were anti-American, to support the president, and we didn't know what we were talking about. How about using your own party's words?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
(but not FoxNews or the Drudge Report).

Like Drudge is a legit source? How can you be sure he does not watch FOX news? Are you there with him 24/7?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Who in the US that is ill or injured is denied seeing a doctor in a hospiutal emergency room?

Typical republican stand on health care: If you can't afford the premiums, just wait until you have to go to the ER, then never get health care because of your pre-existing condition.


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I have scene to many people sell the food they bought with their LoneStar Card (how welfair is distributed here in TX), at a discount, and use the money to by drugs and booze.

People do that with food baskets they get from non-profits and churches as well. What is your point?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
In FY-2009, that just ended, the Democrat Congress and President over spent the budget by $1.4 TRILLION. Am I pissed off at that, you bet your ass I am.

And you just gloss over the trillions spend under Bush with no plan for paying any of that back?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
All part of a re-branding effort to distance the President from the radical liberalism we witnessed in year one.

Raise taxes and be self-sufficiant instead of borrowing trillions from China, Japan, Saudi Arabia AND sending good jobs overseas for the privilge? That was a great idea, wasn't it? Take the new Bay Bridge, for example. It is over budget and behind schedule. One reason is: pieces for the new deck are coming from Shanghai, China. American steel workers are out of a job and who knows how strong Chinese steel is. But, we are in debt to the Chinese.
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:36 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
I say lets begin with the biggest cases of waste first

I say end all waste wherever it is, period.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

Whatever. If it's waste, it's waste. I'd like a thorough review of black projects analyzed for both their utility and possible ROI.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:43 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
A realist?

If I recall correctly the commission that reviewed military bases to be shut down was not able to get their work done in a week or two.

Whatever Obama's commission ends up with, it's best that it come out after the election simply so it will not be the focus of the election. Since it does not appear to be mandatory to comply with there is value in having it discussed outside of the election process. We might even have a month or two when politicians can try to act as statesmen and do their best for the country, not the party.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Who in the US that is ill or injured is denied seeing a doctor in a hospiutal emergency room?

It is true that anyone can get treatment in an ER - which is why so many uninsured pack them.

But as soon as the "Emergency" has been taken care of it becomes a matter of money to get various treatments later. Maybe a patient has CS or MS or MD. Of cancer of one type or another? If you have insurance you might get a lot of financial help, but you'd better have money.

My best example is blood transfusions as my wife had a lot while getting chemo for leukemia. My insurance did not cover that - maybe because blood is generally a "donated" product.

Not now days. Our bills were for over $1,000,00 per unit. Doesn't matter that my wife and I had donated in the past, or that I have a brother-in-law who has gone past the 125 unit donation level. The Red Cross charges the hospitals and the hospitals add in a healthy profit margin - all on blood that you and I may be donating this week.

Gotta have that cash. People without it are simply going to die quicker than those with the money.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I just don't like what they are doing to MY country.

Neither did I during the Bush/Cheney years.

I know some of the men listed on The Wall, just as you do. And I find it intolerable that decisions were made to toss young men and women into battle in Iraq when there was no WMD. 40,000+ Purple Hearts and neither Bush nor Cheney are man enough to apologize to the country or the families impacted.

And the games played in the financial sector - with Madoff as the poster boy.

Maybe it's because I actually lived overseas that keeps me from being afraid of genuine health care reform. And genuinely concerned about the potential horrors of giving health insurance companies what they want in the area of legal protections.

After 8 years of conservatives screwing this country into the Great Recession I'll happily stick with Obama.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:36 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I just don't like what they are doing to MY country.

Neither did I during the Bush/Cheney years.

Yes, but in that case we were un-American, as people like KC135 and other righties told us, ad nauseum, during the entire Bush years. But, funny now, he thinks the same thing makes him PATRIOTIC.

And guess what, KC135, WE were also being patriotic for opposing Bush's policies. I don't think you're being unpatriotic for being the opposition, but at least give us the same credit you're looking for right now.

By the way, it's OUR freakin' country too.
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:43 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Yes, but in that case we were un-American, as people like KC135 and other righties told us, ad nauseum, during the entire Bush years. But, funny now, he thinks the same thing makes him PATRIOTIC.

Yeah I've noticed a lot of the same people who called those of us on the left unpatriotic for disliking Bush's policies claiming that disliking Obama's policies is somehow patriotic. Double standards at their finest.
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Mir
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:45 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
In the 1940s, the greatest fighter of the war, the P-51 Mustang was developed, from concept to first flight of the prototype, in just 100 days, and was developed entirely using company funds, not under a government contract. Now of course planes are much more complicated, but 20 years???

Let's not forget the diversification of manufacturing into as many states as possible so as to try and win votes. That can only add inefficiencies to the whole process.

-Mir
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Flighty
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:51 am

Why doesn't Obama just hire some big consultant like McKinsey? Oddly enough, it would probably save hundreds of billions of dollars. A lot of federal spending is without purpose and produces nothing. It could be cut by half.

And, surprisingly, the economy would re-employ those people in reasonable ways. Cutting taxes and putting national finances on a firm footing will be an excellent boost to the economy. The long term security of the country should always be a top priority. We're like a millionaire who always visits a payday lender. It's foolish behavior.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:14 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
Why doesn't Obama just hire some big consultant like McKinsey?

You mean as far as cutting out some of the waste in the government? I'm sure it's been tried, but, again, the permanent bureaucracy will protect itself as if it's at war, and has thwarted president's, Democratic and Republican, for years.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 16):
The long term security of the country should always be a top priority.

And, it is, at great expense, every year, no matter who is president, but it should not get a free ride, simply because we're talking security and the military. They should have to be disciplined in their expenditures as well.
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Flighty
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:28 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
And, it is, at great expense, every year, no matter who is president, but it should not get a free ride, simply because we're talking security and the military. They should have to be disciplined in their expenditures as well.

Oh... I meant financial security! Sorry. I agree, if anything the Pentagon should be more closely audited.

But you're right, bureaucrats always thwart this stuff. They just need to be outfoxed.
 
Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:44 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
I agree, if anything the Pentagon should be more closely audited.

When I was in the Navy there were plenty of inspections/audits and I doubt if they have been reduced over the years.

A military audit, however, is focused as much on operational fitness as it is on purchasing.

What could be of importance is increasing the use of computer modeling on various supplies and equipment. We now have massive computer power available throughout the military and operational research has advanced to the point where systems can increase efficiency.

Even basic inventory management. I spent a lot of time in the retailing sector and systems were emerging when I shifted to the consulting side that would "keep an eye" on new shipments arriving. If there were no sales within a limited time frame it would highlight the situation - because it might be that there were problems in distribution, or some cartons simply got pushed to the side.

The military can keep as intensive an eye on their parts inventory. Stocks getting low in one base of a product, but another base is loaded with that part? Get the military to buy from itself first. Watch inventories for effective lead times.

Maybe even get efficient companies like WalMart who are the experts on inventory controls.

And focus some purchasing at the local levels. Basic tools? Approve companies like Sears, Lowes and HomeDepot as "accepted local suppliers" so we don't spend money for a $200 hammer.

Lots of approaches to improve efficiencies, but recognize that various departments, including the DoD that will need funding and efforts to dramatically cut federal budgets will cause more problems than solutions.

That's why the Tea Party shouting is only focused on cutting taxes - without taking the responsibilities for where the cuts will come from on the spending side.

Maybe we should cut spending in the various states based on the level of support the Tea Party is given in the November election.  Yeah sure
 
dragon6172
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:17 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
After 8 years of conservatives screwing this country into the Great Recession I'll happily stick with Obama.

I usually just read the political throwdowns that appear on the forum but there are some comments that irk me, this being one of them. Just because conservatives screwed the country for eight years does not mean that the next group in office should get a free pass with all of their policies.

It is like someone leading your group to a bottom of a well, electing someone else to lead you out, but the newly elected idea is to fill the well with water and float out. Sounds great, but what about the people who can't swim?

Maybe a poor analogy, and maybe you do not intend to blindly follow, but that is how I took your comment.
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seb146
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:04 pm



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 20):
It is like someone leading your group to a bottom of a well, electing someone else to lead you out, but the newly elected idea is to fill the well with water and float out. Sounds great, but what about the people who can't swim?

Maybe a poor analogy, and maybe you do not intend to blindly follow, but that is how I took your comment.

Actually, it is a very good analogy. In this one, even though I can not swim, I would much rather give that a go than stick with leadership that will keep digging and telling us we are going to get out any second.
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Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:52 pm



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 20):
does not mean that the next group in office should get a free pass with all of their policies.

Obama hasn't had a free pass - he's been attacked from day one and Senator-Elect Brown is another indication.

But, to be blunt, I do think that the conservative Administration caused some very serious problems in this country.

With 40,000 Purple Hearts because of dumb decisions (or desire for Iraq's oil) the WMD issue is at the lead - and should stay at the lead for a long time.

And the Great Recession is another issue that shouldn't go away.

Sorry that you don't like people slamming those who slammed the country with incompetence and greed (my opinion), but that's how I see it.

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 20):
Maybe a poor analogy, and maybe you do not intend to blindly follow, but that is how I took your comment.

And I don't believe that I have blindly followed anyone since serving under some outstanding Commanding Officers in the Navy. In those days you not only followed, but saluted as we did.

But look at how many are blindly following the Tea Party. All I know about them is that the want to cut taxes and spending. Can you give me a list of the cuts we, as a country, will have to live with under them? Are they going to close down the VA and stop paying benefits? Wouldn't surprise me in the least as I have yet to see any serious discussions on what spending is going to be cut.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:11 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I don't hate the Dems or Obama, I just don't like what they are doing to MY country.

So, from your statement, you believe Dems and Obama are foreign entities?

I need yo to point out exactly where I said that? Do you have any formal education?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
They have a vision for this country that is not spend spend spend with no way of paying for it, like the republicans had under Bush.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
(but not FoxNews or the Drudge Report).

Like Drudge is a legit source? How can you be sure he does not watch FOX news? Are you there with him 24/7?

Yeap, Durdge is legitiment.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Falcon84

Falcon said he does not watch FoxNews. Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I have scene to many people sell the food they bought with their LoneStar Card (how welfair is distributed here in TX), at a discount, and use the money to by drugs and booze.

People do that with food baskets they get from non-profits and churches as well. What is your point?

Fraud is fraud, that's my point.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
In FY-2009, that just ended, the Democrat Congress and President over spent the budget by $1.4 TRILLION. Am I pissed off at that, you bet your ass I am.

And you just gloss over the trillions spend under Bush with no plan for paying any of that back?

Obama did that in ONE YEAR, in 8 years Bush's total deficeit spending is $1.1T.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
I say lets begin with the biggest cases of waste first

I say end all waste wherever it is, period.

I agree, but you need to start somewhere.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

Whatever. If it's waste, it's waste.

Yes, it is.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 11):
I'd like a thorough review of black projects analyzed for both their utility and possible ROI.

Submit a FOIA request.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
A realist?

If I recall correctly the commission that reviewed military bases to be shut down was not able to get their work done in a week or two.

Thery preselected the bases to be closed, not on military value, but political value.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
Who in the US that is ill or injured is denied seeing a doctor in a hospiutal emergency room?


It is true that anyone can get treatment in an ER



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
But as soon as the "Emergency" has been taken care of it becomes a matter of money to get various treatments later. Maybe a patient has CS or MS or MD. Of cancer of one type or another?

Here in Tarrant County, TX the publicly own hospital is John Peter-Smith Hospital, they spend some $45M dollars per year in care for people who cannot pay, after their visits to the ER. ER costs add another $10M, for a county with a total population of around 550,000.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I know some of the men listed on The Wall, just as you do. And I find it intolerable that decisions were made to toss young men and women into battle in Iraq when there was no WMD. 40,000+ Purple Hearts and neither Bush nor Cheney are man enough to apologize to the country or the families impacted.

Bush met with many of the wounded in military hospitals around the world, he also met with many of the families who lost loved ones in both wars. Johnson never did that for any of the 58,000 names on the wall, or the 500,000 wounded.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
I just don't like what they are doing to MY country.

Neither did I during the Bush/Cheney years.

Yes, but in that case we were un-American, as people like KC135 and other righties told us, ad nauseum, during the entire Bush years. But, funny now, he thinks the same thing makes him PATRIOTIC.

And guess what, KC135, WE were also being patriotic for opposing Bush's policies. I don't think you're being unpatriotic for being the opposition, but at least give us the same credit you're looking for right now.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 14):
Yeah I've noticed a lot of the same people who called those of us on the left unpatriotic for disliking Bush's policies claiming that disliking Obama's policies is somehow patriotic. Double standards at their finest.

Where did I ever say those opposed to conservitive views are unAmerican?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
I agree, if anything the Pentagon should be more closely audited.

When I was in the Navy there were plenty of inspections/audits and I doubt if they have been reduced over the years.

A military audit, however, is focused as much on operational fitness as it is on purchasing.

Yes, that was their job. DOD has an IG just for the purchase contracts.

Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 20):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
After 8 years of conservatives screwing this country into the Great Recession I'll happily stick with Obama.

I usually just read the political throwdowns that appear on the forum but there are some comments that irk me, this being one of them. Just because conservatives screwed the country for eight years does not mean that the next group in office should get a free pass with all of their policies.

What great depression are we in? We are in a recession, according to both Bush and Obama.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23597
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:18 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Obama did that in ONE YEAR, in 8 years Bush's total deficeit spending is $1.1T.

So, when Obama and Dems slow down and even roll back their spending, you will be okay with throwing away $1 trillion.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
I need yo to point out exactly where I said that?

When you said "They" and "MY country" is makes you look like you believe Dems/Obama are not from The United States.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Yeap, Durdge is legitiment.

So is MSNBC, Maddow, Olbermann, CNN, then.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
dragon6172
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:26 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
Sorry that you don't like people slamming those who slammed the country with incompetence and greed (my opinion), but that's how I see it.

I never said I had a problem with you slamming the conservatives. All I said was that I took your statement to mean you would blindly follow the current administration because the previous administration screwed the country. To me that is not the right reason to support someone. If you truly believe that what Obama is doing is right... that is great and I do not have a problem with that.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
What great depression are we in? We are in a recession, according to both Bush and Obama

He said Great Recession. Even in what you quoted.


Two examples of why I stick to reading these threads. People from both sides of the line do not bother to read and really understand what the opposing person is trying to say.
Phrogs Phorever
 
Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:01 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
in 8 years Bush's total deficeit spending is $1.1T.

Bush/Cheney's decisions are far more expensive than $1.1 Trillion. The cost of Iraq alone is projected out at $3+ Trillion - probably more if we take care of the vets.

And a lot of the spending in Obama's first year has been for cleaning up the problems left by Bush & Cheney. Bush was "lightly" addressing the auto and financial sectors - leaving the heavy lifting for Obama.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Bush met with many of the wounded in military hospitals around the world

BFD. He was the reason why they were there. The "Decider" who got to see a small part of the cost this country has had to pay.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
What great depression are we in?

We managed to avoid a depression. The mess the conservatives left has been called the Great Recession. Recession with an "R". It could have easily hit a Depression level, but major tax dollars were spent to avoid that. You might not agree with the investments that Obama made to avoid a true depression, but I have to think of the costs of the Depression we could have had.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:46 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

Pure conjecture. You have no idea, really.

How are those "star wars" programs working out? I wonder how many tens of billions have been dumped into that boondoggle. Trillions?

There's unbelievable waste in defense.

I saw lots of lazy techs nursing overtime and raking in over $100K per year doing nothing and Engineers running side businesses and running gambling operations. People defacating in hallways and defense contractors breaking laws (and getting caught).
 
cws818
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:17 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

No, because:
(1) He never said it; and
(2) "legitiment" is not a word.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
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seb146
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:28 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Here in Tarrant County, TX the publicly own hospital is John Peter-Smith Hospital, they spend some $45M dollars per year in care for people who cannot pay, after their visits to the ER. ER costs add another $10M, for a county with a total population of around 550,000.

What about becoming enrolled in a legitimate health care plan if they move to, say, Ohio or even the other side of Texas? That is all well and good that they pour that much into ER care, but how far beyond that does the care extend? What about care to prevent people from going to the ER in the first place?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:49 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Submit a FOIA request.

There's no point - it will be turned down. Little has changed about black budgets since the beginning of the Cold War.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 27):
People defacating in hallways

Uhm, what? Excuse me?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1658
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:51 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):
Uhm, what? Excuse me?

Yep. I'm completely serious.
 
Flighty
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:10 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Maybe we should cut spending in the various states based on the level of support the Tea Party is given in the November election.

Most of those states are so poor, they don't pay any taxes anyway. With the exception of Texas.

About the military, no doubt they have their processes. I still think a huge McKinsey team could cut out $100B per year, perhaps $200B out of the $600B total. I've seen businesses (such as airline companies) make similar cuts and still function just fine.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:17 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
With 40,000 Purple Hearts because of dumb decisions (or desire for Iraq's oil)

How much oil are we getting from Iraq? what little we do get we pay how much for? I'll answer for you, the Us imports an average of 20,000 bbls of oil from Iraq each day (about 1-2 tanker ships per month). We pay the market price for that oil, lately about $75-$80 per bbl.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
And the Great Recession is another issue that shouldn't go away.

You are right, but it has been extended by Obama and his wasting money at a rate of $100M per hour.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 24):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Obama did that in ONE YEAR, in 8 years Bush's total deficeit spending is $1.1T.

So, when Obama and Dems slow down and even roll back their spending, you will be okay with throwing away $1 trillion.

When will they slow down? Come on, put it here for all to see.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 24):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
I need yo to point out exactly where I said that?

When you said "They" and "MY country" is makes you look like you believe Dems/Obama are not from The United States.

No, I believe Obama and the Dems are Americans, stupid Americans, but still Americans. BTW, this is MY country, just as it is YOURS.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
in 8 years Bush's total deficeit spending is $1.1T.

Bush/Cheney's decisions are far more expensive than $1.1 Trillion. The cost of Iraq alone is projected out at $3+ Trillion - probably more if we take care of the vets.

Nope, they over spent the federal budget by $1.1T in 8 years, Obama more than matched that in ONE year. The PROJECTED costs of the war belong to Obama, not Bush. He lives in Dallas, not Washington now.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Bush met with many of the wounded in military hospitals around the world

BFD. He was the reason why they were there. The "Decider" who got to see a small part of the cost this country has had to pay.

You said;

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
40,000+ Purple Hearts and neither Bush nor Cheney are man enough to apologize to the country or the families impacted.

So now it is a BFD? How many families has Obama met? How many wounded has he visited? He only went to visit those wounded at Fort Hood a few months ago AFTER President Bush visited them. He called that attack a law eforcement issue (as he did with the Christmas Day underwear bomber) and still will not call them terrorists attacks.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 27):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
There is waste in DOD spending, but it does not even compare to the waste and fraud in the current social programs like medicare.

Pure conjecture. You have no idea, really.

How are those "star wars" programs working out?



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 27):
I wonder how many tens of billions have been dumped into that boondoggle. Trillions?

There's unbelievable waste in defense.

Noi, canceled DOD programs, or any other government program cancelled is a savings not a waste. The waste would be continuing to pay for it ince you know it is too expensive and probably will never work (much like the A-400M). What about all those wasted dollars ACORN got? They now have a Federal suit to get more money.

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 28):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

No, because:
(1) He never said it;

Oh really? Rewriting history are we?

Obama Team Continues Effort to Isolate Fox News

FOXNews.com

Senior Obama administration officials took to the airwaves Sunday to accuse Fox News of pushing a particular point of view and not being a real news network.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...continues-effort-isolate-fox-news/

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Here in Tarrant County, TX the publicly own hospital is John Peter-Smith Hospital, they spend some $45M dollars per year in care for people who cannot pay, after their visits to the ER. ER costs add another $10M, for a county with a total population of around 550,000.

What about becoming enrolled in a legitimate health care plan if they move to, say, Ohio or even the other side of Texas? That is all well and good that they pour that much into ER care, but how far beyond that does the care extend?

Read it again, it not only is ER care, at a costs of $10M to the county, but also has another $45M for their care after the ER visit, including expensive treatments like chemo.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):
What about care to prevent people from going to the ER in the first place?

What about it? Most people with health insurance don't see their doctir until they are sick and do nothing for preventive care.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Maybe we should cut spending in the various states based on the level of support the Tea Party is given in the November election.

Most of those states are so poor, they don't pay any taxes anyway. With the exception of Texas.

You cannot do that. Al;so you do understand that last summer's tea parties were held in all 50 states (or is it 57 states? according to Obama), don't you?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
About the military, no doubt they have their processes. I still think a huge McKinsey team could cut out $100B per year, perhaps $200B out of the $600B total. I've seen businesses (such as airline companies) make similar cuts and still function just fine.

How are you going to do that? the Military is not run line a company or an airline. The military spends about $100B each year on new weapons systems, $250B on pay and benefits for the troops, the rest is mostly MilCon, R&D, and O&M.
 
Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:18 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
Most of those states are so poor, they don't pay any taxes anyway. With the exception of Texas.

So you're complaining that they get, say, maintenance funds for their Interstate system? That's pork.

About the military, no doubt they have their processes. I still think a huge McKinsey team could cut out $100B per year, perhaps $200B out of the $600B total. I've seen businesses (such as airline companies) make similar cuts and still function just fine.

McKinsey or any other "management specialist" scares me when it comes to the military. It's one thing to look at an airline and cut the olives out of the salads or pull the pillows. It's another thing to let them loose on our military.

Want to save defense dollars? Cut training in half. There. Don't even need to waste monty on McKinsey - I'll give you that one for free.

Want to save more money? Don't use real ammunition on half the training you do carry out. It's free to have the service personnel to yell our "Bang!, Bang!, Bang!" (the Artillery and Navy ships would yell out "Boom!, Boom! Boom!") Saves money big time.

And we can start a "Bring Your Own Weapon" program for recruits. If they have their own guns before they enlist then let them use what they know best. Of course you'll need to bring your own ammunition for training, but there won't be that much training so nothing to worry about.

The Navy can also save money by pulling ships from mothballs instead of building new ones.

The Air Force? If props are cheaper than jets, well why not? Those props did a hell of a job in WW II. And I bet we can build DC-3s a lot cheaper than those fancy new planes.

And let's face it, there is no way McKinsey will know jack squat about winning battles. (Even Cheney & Rumsfeld knew phuck all about winning battles intelligently.)
 
cws818
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:34 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 28):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

No, because:
(1) He never said it;

Oh really? Rewriting history are we?

Obama Team Continues Effort to Isolate Fox News

FOXNews.com

Senior Obama administration officials took to the airwaves Sunday to accuse Fox News of pushing a particular point of view and not being a real news network.

Precisely. You said that Obama said so. He didn't. His aides did, but they are not Obama.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:44 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
In the 1940s, the greatest fighter of the war, the P-51 Mustang was developed, from concept to first flight of the prototype, in just 100 days, and was developed entirely using company funds, not under a government contract.

What an extraordinary statement and very revealing.

Of course it was a government contract, just not a US government contract.
Wiki:
In 1939, shortly after World War II began, the British government established a purchasing commission in the United States, headed by Sir Henry Self. Serving along with Sir Wilfrid Freeman, the "Air Member for Development and Production," in 1938, Self was given overall responsibility for Royal Air Force (RAF) production and research and development. He sat on the (British) Air Council Sub-committee on Supply (or "Supply Committee") and one of his many tasks was to organize the manufacture of American fighter aircraft for the RAF. At the time, the choice was very limited; none of the U.S. aircraft already flying met European standards, with only the Curtiss Tomahawk coming close. The Curtiss-Wright plant was running at capacity, so even that aircraft was in short supply.

And it was Designed and built in just 117 days for the record.

No it was not developed entirely using company funds.

Kindelberger replied that NAA could have a better aircraft with the same engine in the air in less time than it would take to set up a production line for the P-40. The British Commission set as conditions that the fighter was armed with four British Type .303 machine guns, equipped with the Allison V-1710 liquid-cooled engine, would cost no more than 40,000 dollars and that the first production aircraft be received by January 1941.[4] From the initial placing of the contract on 24 April, a roll out in early August of the prototype until the first flight on 26 October 1940, a remarkably short gestation period occurred. [5] By now the executive head of the British Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP), Freeman ordered 320 aircraft in March 1940. In September, MAP increased the first production order by 300.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:47 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Noi, canceled DOD programs, or any other government program cancelled is a savings not a waste. The waste would be continuing to pay for it ince you know it is too expensive and probably will never work (much like the A-400M).

Not sure what you're suggesting. The one program I mentioned would be more similar to if Airbus "dissolved" the A-400M program but then launched an A-400Mb project with most of the same people doing all of the same stuff.

Even if that weren't the case, I've seen people making well over $100k per year working on defense programs drink beer and surf the web for hardcore porn while "on the job." You can rant all you like about ACORN, but you'll never convince me that somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 - 50% of the defense budget isn't complete waste.
 
Airport
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:22 am

Here you go...

Obama officially proposes to freeze all non-security discretionary spending for 3 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/....spending.freeze/index.html?hpt=T1
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:44 am



Quoting Airport (Reply 38):
Obama officially proposes to freeze all non-security discretionary spending for 3 years.

After the massive increases of this year, that's hardly any help.
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
dxing
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:25 am

Well good luck with that. As the saying goes, the President proposes, the Congress disposes. He can say he wants to freeze the budget save defense all he wants but in the end it is Congress that will do appropriations and I just don't see them being to inclined to freeze anything in an election year. I commend the President on the idea and hope it gets traction but I seriously doubt, given how ineffective he was on the health care debate, that Pelosi or Reid are gong to pay him much mind now. Like to know why foreign aid isn't on the list of things to be frozen though. To me that's the first place you start.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Ken777
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:31 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
How much oil are we getting from Iraq?

No surprise - no oil benefits, just like no WMDs.

Totally stupid decision all the way around. But you know the oil men in the WHite House were looking at the benefits of Iraq Oil.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
You are right, but it has been extended by Obama and his wasting money at a rate of $100M per hour.

The question I think we all would like answered is what would be the cost if that money hadn't been spent. Financial sector racked with bankruptcies, GM and Chrysler shut down, along with ALL their dealers, etc. People's investments in the market for their retirement totally wiped out, A true depression in our lifetime. Maybe we could have just filed for Bankruptcy for the federal debt, written it off and started all over.

We have gone through a scary time. It's getting better, but there is no rapid cures.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
The PROJECTED costs of the war belong to Obama, not Bush.

That projected cost of $3 Trillion was before Obama was elected. It was reported when the country started understanding just how bad things were.

Part of the $3 Trillion? Replacing equipment that is worn down in war, or lost in combat. There there are supplies, everything from annunciation reserves to a mountain of spare parts.

And then there is the cost of taking care of Vets. For at least 60 or 70 years. The last Vets from WW I are just about gone, but there are a lot of WW II Vets, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, Afghanistan (where we were going after the terrorists) and Iraq.

Looking at the Vet benefits from Iraq as well as capital spending and inventory replenishment we are looking at $3 Trillion for Iraq.

The one thing we will always agree on is taking care of ANY Vets.

I'll support you on re-engine efforts for some of the KC-135s, as well as a minimum purchase for 767 tankers. We'll probably be in agreement in the need to keep equipment well maintained and continue training at all levels.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
So now it is a BFD?

Truman was right - the buck stops at that desk in the Oval Office. Bush made the decision and there has been a horrid cost paid by those in uniform. I don't care if he made visits to hospitals (and miss the problems at Walter Reed while he was strolling around) as those visits by VIPs generally means a lot of people take time away from the patients to get the place "looking 4.0".

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
No, I believe Obama and the Dems are Americans, stupid Americans, but still Americans

When I look at the Oval Office Bright Sparks the first guy to pop in my mind if Bush II. I did manage to buy a cheap, used copy of the DVD "W" and it pretty well matched my opinion of Bush & Cheney. I also consider Palin shrewd, but far from an intellectual. Regardless of which end of the political range they are Obama and Hilary far outclass Bush II and Palin. But then so does Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Al;so you do understand that last summer's tea parties were held in all 50 states

Until the Tea Party delivers some specific cuts on spending and other details I can't consider them that much of a political party. At least if the conservatives split off from the Republican Party we'll pretty well know what they are going to do.

Big question for us, Top, is if the Tea Party would gut funding for the VA. That would probably be near the top of their list.
 
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kc135topboom
Topic Author
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RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:12 pm



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 35):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 28):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

No, because:
(1) He never said it;

Oh really? Rewriting history are we?

Obama Team Continues Effort to Isolate Fox News

FOXNews.com

Senior Obama administration officials took to the airwaves Sunday to accuse Fox News of pushing a particular point of view and not being a real news network.

Precisely. You said that Obama said so. He didn't. His aides did, but they are not Obama.

Like in all administrations, those aides are parrots for the President.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 37):
Even if that weren't the case, I've seen people making well over $100k per year working on defense programs drink beer and surf the web for hardcore porn while "on the job."

You are probibly right, as I have scene that type of activity in commerical business jobs too. I would just as soon fire tham as I would any government employee doing the same things.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 37):
You can rant all you like about ACORN, but you'll never convince me that somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 - 50% of the defense budget isn't complete waste.

Perhaps, but you still have 100% waste in ACORN.

Quoting Airport (Reply 38):
Here you go...

Obama officially proposes to freeze all non-security discretionary spending for 3 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/...pt=T1



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):
After the massive increases of this year, that's hardly any help.



Quoting DXing (Reply 40):
Well good luck with that. As the saying goes, the President proposes, the Congress disposes.

Wow, a whole $250B spread over 3 years, that is less than $100B per year. This looks like nothing but shifting money from buying things for the government (which produces jobs) to giving that money away in social programs. The lines at the liquier stors is getting longer.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
How much oil are we getting from Iraq?

No surprise - no oil benefits, just like no WMDs.

Totally stupid decision all the way around. But you know the oil men in the WHite House were looking at the benefits of Iraq Oil.

You know that how?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
You are right, but it has been extended by Obama and his wasting money at a rate of $100M per hour.

The question I think we all would like answered is what would be the cost if that money hadn't been spent. Financial sector racked with bankruptcies, GM and Chrysler shut down, along with ALL their dealers, etc. People's investments in the market for their retirement totally wiped out, A true depression in our lifetime. Maybe we could have just filed for Bankruptcy for the federal debt, written it off and started all over.

You have to go back to see why GM and others were in such a position. Why did Ford not need a government bailout? The free market would weed out those to weak to continue and reward those who can. Jobs would just shift from one company to the other one.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
The PROJECTED costs of the war belong to Obama, not Bush.

That projected cost of $3 Trillion was before Obama was elected. It was reported when the country started understanding just how bad things were.

Part of the $3 Trillion? Replacing equipment that is worn down in war, or lost in combat. There there are supplies, everything from annunciation reserves to a mountain of spare parts.

Doesn't the DOD need those things anyway?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Looking at the Vet benefits from Iraq as well as capital spending and inventory replenishment we are looking at $3 Trillion for Iraq.

I agree we need to spend the money on the Veterans who deserve it, but that money is seperate from DOD money. The DVA is not part of the DOD.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
The one thing we will always agree on is taking care of ANY Vets.

Yes, we aill always agree on that.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
I'll support you on re-engine efforts for some of the KC-135s, as well as a minimum purchase for 767 tankers. We'll probably be in agreement in the need to keep equipment well maintained and continue training at all levels.

Yes, we agree on that, as well as recommissioning the Iowa BBs instead of a new DD that will never be albe to provide the fire power needed for NSFS/NGFS missions.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
No, I believe Obama and the Dems are Americans, stupid Americans, but still Americans

When I look at the Oval Office Bright Sparks the first guy to pop in my mind if Bush II.

Perhaps, but he was far from the first. Even in our life time there was Johnson, Carter, and Ford.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Al;so you do understand that last summer's tea parties were held in all 50 states

Until the Tea Party delivers some specific cuts on spending and other details I can't consider them that much of a political party. At least if the conservatives split off from the Republican Party we'll pretty well know what they are going to do.

Big question for us, Top, is if the Tea Party would gut funding for the VA. That would probably be near the top of their list.

I doubt the conservitives will abandon the GOP, yet. But the conservitives will and do fully support the troops, during their time in the service and when they leave the service and need additional care for their wounds, injuries, and illnesses they got during their military service. We do owe that to them, they all earned that.
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:35 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 42):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 35):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 28):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Did you forget Obama saying FoxNews was not a legitiment news agancy?

No, because:
(1) He never said it;

Oh really? Rewriting history are we?

Obama Team Continues Effort to Isolate Fox News

FOXNews.com

Senior Obama administration officials took to the airwaves Sunday to accuse Fox News of pushing a particular point of view and not being a real news network.

Precisely. You said that Obama said so. He didn't. His aides did, but they are not Obama.

Like in all administrations, those aides are parrots for the President.

So, what you are saying is that your original statement was wrong - that Obama himself did not state that Fox was an illegitimate news organization. Thank you for the clarification.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
ATTart
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:31 pm

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:19 pm

It's your fault!!! No it's your fault!!! No I am telling you it's your fault!! No I am telling you it's your fault!!!! Well, you are wrong!!! No your are wrong!!!  banghead   banghead   banghead  The circle of Life in D.C, Politics.
Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
 
Starbuk7
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:09 pm

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:03 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Now you're comparing the private sector with the military. Doesn't work. And, yes, you are right, though, there is also bureaucracy in provate sector companies, too. But we're talking the government here, not Ford.

So, have you ever worked for the DoD. You are making some fairly wild assumptions if you haven"t been part of it.

I happen to work for Defense Logistics and there is FAR LESS waste than there used to be. We have been making many changes in the last 5 to 10 years and there is much more control on spending and more contractor risk involved in ALL contracts.

My team actually designed, bought parts off the shelf, and installed a wireless ICS system in 35 C-2A aircraft in less that 1.5 years. Not the 10+ years you all seem to be referring to now.

Defense spending is a must for this country if we are to stay FREE.
 
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kc135topboom
Topic Author
Posts: 11208
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:05 pm



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 43):
So, what you are saying is that your original statement was wrong - that Obama himself did not state that Fox was an illegitimate news organization. Thank you for the clarification.

Where was I wrong, just because those exact words did not flow, publicly, from Obama's mouth? He told those words, or words to that effect to someone. Then he leaves it up to his parrots to repeat those words publicly on the talk shows. Those words started with the "Big O" and are echoed by his cronies. They can say nothing to the press without his personal approval.

Like all liberals, you like to zero in on insignificant information than get surprised by the facts, which you then ignore. Like all liberals and socialist supporters of this 'rigime' you convenitly bury your head in the sand when anything negitive is said about Barack Hussain Obama. Yet you all jump up in unison when it comes to Bush, or the 'blame Bush for everything' crowd.

You fail to see that we are now strapped with the worst POTUS since Jimmy Carter, the one term wonderless inept POTUS. It took President Reagan years to fix the failures of Carter, and we still have some of his failures haunting us today (can you say Iran?).
 
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seb146
Posts: 23597
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:15 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
Like all liberals, you like to zero in on insignificant information than get surprised by the facts, which you then ignore. Like all liberals and socialist supporters of this 'rigime' you convenitly bury your head in the sand when anything negitive is said about Barack Hussain Obama. Yet you all jump up in unison when it comes to Bush, or the 'blame Bush for everything' crowd.

Except when "conservatives" do the exact same thing, they are patrots; everyone else is anti-American.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
You fail to see that we are now strapped with the worst POTUS since Jimmy Carter, the one term wonderless inept POTUS. It took President Reagan years to fix the failures of Carter, and we still have some of his failures haunting us today

Five (terror, drugs, poverty, Iraq, Afghanistan) endless wars, trillions in debt, crumbling infrastructure..... You really don't see how George Walker Bush is the worst president in history? No, "conservatives" turn a blind eye to their own. As long as the candidate aligns themself behind the national republican line, they are the only candidates the country needs to consider; anyone else is socialist/communist/marxist/nazi/Democrat and, as such, are the spawn of the Devil.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):
What about care to prevent people from going to the ER in the first place?

What about it? Most people with health insurance don't see their doctir until they are sick and do nothing for preventive care.

Wrong again. Most people do go see their doctor for preventive care. I guess you are one of the "conservatives" that believe every single supporter of the right-wing are absolutly healthy and wealthy so have no worries about their health. Well, you are wrong.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Read it again, it not only is ER care, at a costs of $10M to the county, but also has another $45M for their care after the ER visit, including expensive treatments like chemo.

So, socialist medicine works for the good of all. Interesting.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
When will they slow down? Come on, put it here for all to see.

Let's see here: The American people are complaining about spending, so the administration freezes one type of spending. Oh, gee... a president who listens to the people. Where was that over the past 8 years?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
I believe Obama and the Dems are Americans, stupid Americans, but still Americans. BTW, this is MY country, just as it is YOURS.

So, if I tow the right-wing line, you and DX and Karl Rove, et al. will think I am not "stupid?" That way of thinking is stupid. We can have an opinion, it just has to be the right-wing opinion. And, you don't see a problem with that? Dictatorship? Chavez? Nothing wrong with your line of thinking? Because people in places like Montana, upstate New York, and Texas hear the right-wing opinion, never balance that out, so they decide anything not right-wing is evil. IMO, that does not make them "stupid" but, rather, lazy. "Stupid" would be trying to remove the chain from a saw while it is running or changing a tire on a hill.

BTW, do you realize how quickly I would be banned if I were to call anyone on the right "stupid?"

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
The PROJECTED costs of the war belong to Obama, not Bush. He lives in Dallas, not Washington now.

So, the fact that he waged wars with no way to pay for it, he gets a pass? Why not give Obama a pass for the stimulus Bush passed? Because it took effect under Obama?

More right-wing hatred of anything not right-wing. And, the more the hatred is pointed out, the more denial there is. This must be Egypt.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 33):
Senior Obama administration officials took to the airwaves Sunday to accuse Fox News of pushing a particular point of view and not being a real news network.

Show us again where OBAMA himself said FOX is not a legit news agency? You do know Karl Rove and Sarah Palin are FOX "contributors," right? How far to the left are they? How do they, and O'Reilly, Hannity, and Beck give opinions on the Dems point of view? Are they positive or negative?

One reason FOX is so "popular," you must understand, is it just happens to be on in restaurants, bars, and travel centers (airports, truck stops, etc.) around the country. It is also avaliable on basic cable where MSNBC (the opposing view) is a "premium" channel.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 24):
So, when Obama and Dems slow down and even roll back their spending, you will be okay with throwing away $1 trillion.

That's not at all what he said...Way to dodge the point when you don't like what you hear, I congratulate you. All he said was that Obama has spent more in his first year than Bush (The Inept/Worst President Ever/He Stole the Election) did in his entire presidency, with no indications of support. Now, since you want to go down that road, how are you going to rationalize The Dear Leader Obama STILL spending more than you griped about Bush ever spending when they do this "freezing" of discretionary funds and get spending down to "acceptable" levels?

Does this "freeze" include the prevention of sending 100 delegates to more media frenzies like the Copenhagen Circus where they spent over a million bucks to fly Congressional Cronies at ten grand a pop, and many other profligateness?

[Edited 2010-01-26 09:49:28 by luckyone]
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama May Freeze 'discretionary Spending'

Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:07 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):

Quoting Cws818 (Reply 43):
So, what you are saying is that your original statement was wrong - that Obama himself did not state that Fox was an illegitimate news organization. Thank you for the clarification.

Where was I wrong, just because those exact words did not flow, publicly, from Obama's mouth?

Yes, there is where you were wrong.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
They can say nothing to the press without his personal approval.

There are a lot of unauthorized leaks in every administration that the president would rather not happen.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 46):
Like all liberals, you like to zero in on insignificant information than get surprised by the facts, which you then ignore.

Like the fact that Obama didn't say that Fox was not a legitimate news source?
I suppose information is only insignificant when you are the one who was unaware of it.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor

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