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baroque
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Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:25 pm

Let us stop pussy footing about we need action, and NOW!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/lord-mon...-arrest-the-warmist-criminals.html

Appearing on The Alex Jones Show yesterday, Lord Christopher Monckton went further than ever before in his vehement opposition to the elitists running the climate change scam, calling for the UN to be shut down and for fraudulent peddlers of global warming propaganda like Al Gore to be arrested and criminally prosecuted.

Monckton said that those who are threatening to shut down economies, bankrupt nations, and deepen the problems of the third world by implementing draconian policies in the name of global warming should be indicted, prosecuted and imprisoned “for a very long time”.

.....

“We the people have got to rise up worldwide, found a party in every country which stands for freedom and make sure we fight this bureaucratic communistic world government monster to a standstill – they shall not pass,” he added.

Monckton said that the United Nations should be “closed down,” adding that he talked to a senior UN ambassador in Canada who told him that he no longer saw any purpose in the UN and it exists “only to enrich itself at the expense of the nations it claims to serve, it’s time it was brought to an end.”

.......

Monckton said that the agenda behind the global warming movement was to set up a communistic world government which will be run by people who “do not care how many people they kill with their policies” and that their goal is to “do away with democracy forever by stealth using the excuse to save the planet.”

Monckton said that the people running the scam had a “deliberate desire to control population by killing people in large numbers deliberately if necessary.”

The former advisor to Margaret Thatcher said that the warmists were sounding more and more desperate and knew that they had been rumbled as a result of climategate, which would only make it more urgent for them to try and force through a binding treaty in Copenhagen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Qhm6YRdJE&feature=player_embedded
 
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falstaff
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:58 pm

This guy is fantastic.... I agree with him 100%. Global warming in the new communism. The elitists want to control the masses and take away our freedoms. They want to tell us what to drive, where to live, how to build our homes, how we will manufacture, etc. Global warming people want to tell us we need to regress and live a simpler lifestyle. Man has always progressed and worked hard to increase his standard of living. We cannot and will not go backwards.
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tbar220
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:14 pm

I thought this might be an article from The Onion....

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 1):
Man has always progressed and worked hard to increase his standard of living.

Your standard of living is different than my "elitist" standard of living. My standard of living includes pure drinking water, clean air to breathe, and food free from poisons and pathogens.

My "elitist" standard of living includes the possibility that my grandchildren and great grandchildren will be able to live on this planet with the clean water, air, and food.

My "elitist" standard of living thinks that it is progress, not "regression", when we move to a lifestyle of less consumption and cleaner output.

My "elitist" standard of living means working hard to make extra money to be able to buy high quality food in a world where mass produced, industrialized agriculture is poisoning the masses.

And finally... my "elitist" standard of living believes that people who say that they should be able to live how they want, to consume how they want, and call that progress; those people are doing so at the expense of others and their children and grandchildren.

Progress and standard of living are not measured by goods, consumption, and manufacturing. At least not in my "elitist" world.
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windy95
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:21 pm

Three cheers for Lord Monckton.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Your standard of living is different than my "elitist" standard of living. My standard of living includes pure drinking water, clean air to breathe, and food free from poisons and pathogens

What does this have to do with CO2 and global warming?
 
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:36 pm

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 1):
Global warming in the new communism.

It's sad when people who have no idea about communism try to draw comparisons that make no sense.

It's even sadder when it is someone such as Vaclav Klaus, who did experience communism and who now exploits such ridiculous, spurious comparisons for his own personal gain and megalo-maniacal fantasies. That's just shameful.

It's true that Al Gore is not an ideal symbol of how things should be done and true too that the UN is full of self-important bureaucrats and is mired in confusion and corruption, but so would be ANY effort made to take on the problems we face transnationally. It is the nature of politics--it is human nature. I'd rather we at least face up to the problems involved than stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist by shouting down anyone who points them out.

Anyway, cue the usual brigade of deniers to be all over this thread like flies on *&^% worshipping this nutcase in a glorious self-congratulatory cluster$%^. That is the way conspiracy theories work...

[Edited 2010-01-25 06:42:54 by N229NW]
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:38 pm



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Your standard of living is different than my "elitist" standard of living. My standard of living includes pure drinking water, clean air to breathe, and food free from poisons and pathogens.

I don't think you will find anyone who is going to argue with you in favor of dirtier water, air and more contamination of our food.

The undeniable fact is that global warming became a business back in the 1990s. Just ask Al Gore. Just ask any of the literally hundreds of institutions and so-called research foundations that owe their existence and prosperity to the whole global warming hype and the funds they receive to pump out a lot of bogus science to keep the frenzy going. Now, one scandal after another is showing what a scam this all is. The science was rotten, and when honest scientists called foul, they were ignored.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tists-says-knew-data-verified.html

Why? Follow the money. Follow the ideology.
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n229nw
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:44 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Follow the money. Follow the ideology.

Follow the denial money right back to the oil and coal lobbies, you mean...right?
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:54 pm

Quoting N229nw (Reply 4):
It's sad when people who have no idea about communism try to draw comparisons that make no sense.

It's even sadder when it is someone such as Vaclav Klaus, who did,/i> experience communism and who now exploits such ridiculous, spurious comparisons for his own personal gain and megalo-maniacal fantasies. That's just shameful.

While I agree that the term 'communism' tends to get thrown around with abandon, I think you need to look at the bigger picture.

The issue is not communism, but Statism, of which communism is but one offshoot. You have many people in governments and NGOs who sincerely feel that we must have a world government, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which would be income redistribution from wealthy to poor countries, environmental governance etc. Only with a world government, they believe, will bring an end to wars, starvation, and environmental decline. Global warming has been seen for the past 20 years as a possible excuse to establish global governance on a limited scale, with financial teeth, on which to build further later.

By the way, is anybody here a Star Trek fan? I'm a big fan of the whole series, and you can see that exact ideology in the "history" they created for the show - how the 21st century had global nuclear war, and the 22nd century saw the emergence of world government, the elimination of poverty, war, racism, and all other vices followed the creation of world government, giving rise to the idealistic reality of the show, where even the idea of money is obsolete. While I love the shows, Gene Roddenberry and the writing team who later took over were clearly strident progressives who believe that a world government will solve all ills of the world.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 6):

Follow the denial money right back to the oil and coal lobbies, you mean...right?

Both sides of the argument have reasons to lie. We should be skeptical of both sides.

The psychological dynamic is here as well. Many people believe in global warming simply in order to feel part of a group they see as benevolent, wanting to care for something other than themselves. The same feeling you might get volunteering for charity work, or giving a lot of money to Haitian earthquake victims. And you can feel morally superior to those who don't believe, because they are just evil people who want to pollute the world to make money. There are huge similarities between global warming and a religion.

[Edited 2010-01-25 07:01:46]
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:06 pm



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Your standard of living is different than my "elitist" standard of living. My standard of living includes pure drinking water, clean air to breathe, and food free from poisons and pathogens.

I already have that. The USA did not always have that and with hard work the wonderful country we have today came to be. The same could be said for a lot of other places in the world.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:07 pm

Oh Alex Jones? Why does he always sound so hyped when he talks?
Can't he ever have a talk show without yelling?  Wow!  Confused
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:32 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 1):
lobal warming in the new communism.

Big version: Width: 300 Height: 391 File size: 28kb


I hope that Mr. Jones had consumed his usual 30 cups of coffee prior to the interview.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:38 pm

I think it's fairly amusing that Alex Jones has had Lord Monckton on his show, given a) the amount of time that Alex Jones has railed against the NWO death camps and b) how Lord Monckton used to advocate total isolation in camps of all who were infected with HIV / AIDS.
 
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:04 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Why? Follow the money. Follow the ideology.



Quoting N229NW (Reply 6):
Follow the denial money right back to the oil and coal lobbies, you mean...right?

The sad truth about all of this is that extremists on both sides of the argument are turning the discussion into a circus. The global warming scientists do have a lot to answer for and recent revelations of how data is ignored or cooked has done some serious damage to what should be an important, rational debate.

Likewise the climate change deniers (aka Monckton et al) skew the debate in the other direction, trying to posit that the large, and growing, output of fossil fuel emissions couldn't possibly be having an effect on climate trends. That flies in the face of all the evidence of other planetary changes (e.g. species extinction and habitat destruction) caused by mankind's activities.

Whatever happened to evidence gathering by scientific method followed by reasoned analysis and debate? It's like each side is tying to sell a new brand of toothpaste.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:13 pm



Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
Monckton said that the agenda behind the global warming movement was to set up a communistic world government which will be run by people who “do not care how many people they kill with their policies” and that their goal is to “do away with democracy forever by stealth using the excuse to save the planet.”

I'm sorry, this is the kind of person actually taken seriously by some here? Talk about 'out there'. So global warming is a 'communist conspiracy' now?  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

oh, and:

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
Monckton said that the people running the scam had a “deliberate desire to control population by killing people in large numbers deliberately if necessary.”

I think if the rest of what he said didn't already clearly show him to be little more than a conspiracy nut, then this one simply seals the deal.

Quoting N229nw (Reply 4):
Anyway, cue the usual brigade of deniers to be all over this thread like flies on *&^% worshipping this nutcase in a glorious self-congratulatory cluster$%^. That is the way conspiracy theories work...

Yup. I can already hear them swarming in. I give it ten more posts before this turns into the 'post you local weather to prove GW is a fraud' thread of the week...
 
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:30 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Both sides of the argument have reasons to lie. We should be skeptical of both sides.

I've got no problem with skepticism, but I would remind you of this. Politicians lie all the time, often with very little consequence. This applies to politicians on both sides of the global warming debate. Scientists, on the other hand, very rarely lie, because if they do their careers are destroyed. This is not to say that scientists never lie, nor that they can't be wrong in their conclusions, but on balance I'll trust a scientist far more than a politician. So yeah, politicians are roughly evenly split on the GW issue, but I'm not using them for support (sorry, Al). The scientists, on the other hand...
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:07 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 14):
Scientists, on the other hand, very rarely lie, because if they do their careers are destroyed. This is not to say that scientists never lie, nor that they can't be wrong in their conclusions, but on balance I'll trust a scientist far more than a politician.

Generally yes, but you have people who may have started out as scientists, but who have crossed over (to the dark side  Wink) of UN politics, or are simply department heads worried about their budgets. You are not dealing with scientists as much as former scientists turned bureaucrat/politicians.
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baroque
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:21 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
simply department heads worried about their budgets.

As Yellowstone writes they will not worry about their budgets for very long. Look up William MacBride of thalidomide fame and check on his fate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
You are not dealing with scientists as much as former scientists turned bureaucrat/politicians.

And to stay listed in their profession, they cannot afford to lie. The rules are most strict for the med profession, but just check the rules re ethics of any scientific body such as AAPG, AusIMM, Geo Soc Aus and I imagine Geol Soc Amer.

http://www.aapg.org/business/codethic.cfm

1. Members shall not make false, misleading, or unwarranted statements, representations or claims in regard to professional matters, nor shall they engage in false or deceptive advertising.
2. Members shall not permit the publication or use of their reports or maps for any unsound or illegitimate undertakings.
3. Members shall not give professional opinions, make reports or give legal testimony without being as thoroughly informed as reasonably required.


Relation of Members to One Another

1. Members shall not falsely or maliciously attempt to injure the reputation or business of others.
2. Members shall freely recognize the work done by others, avoid plagiarism, and avoid the acceptance of credit due others.
3. Members shall endeavor to cooperate with others in the profession and shall encourage the ethical dissemination of geological knowledge.

Duty to the Association

1. Members of the Association shall aid in preventing the election to membership of those who are unqualified or do not meet the standards set forth in this Code of Ethics.
2. By applying for or continuing membership in the Association each member agrees to uphold the ethical standards set forth in this Code of Ethics.
3. Members shall not use AAPG membership to imply endorsement, recommendation, or approval by the Association of specific projects or proposals.

Discipline for Violations of Standards

Members violating any standard prescribed in this Article shall be subject to discipline as provided by the Bylaws.
 
tbar220
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:28 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 8):
I already have that. The USA did not always have that and with hard work the wonderful country we have today came to be. The same could be said for a lot of other places in the world.

That might be great for where you live in the U.S. (where just out of curiousity?), but tell that to a community whose drinking water is being polluted by the toxicity of a superfund site. Tell that to a community that has a coal fired power plant upwind. Tell that to a community who is so poor they can't afford anything other than cheap meats that are either pumped full of dangerous hormones and antibiotics OR can be infected with salmonella. .

Where I live in Chicago, if there is too much rain, you would be STUPID to go into Lake Michigan because the water would be so polluted. If you live on the south side of the city, your rates of asthma are higher because of the pollution. Much of the population is so poor that they can't buy meat other than cheap and unhealthy pork, chicken, and beef.

To me, this does tie in back to the global warming debate because those opposed to limiting emissions main argument is that it would curtail their way of life; i.e. what they consume, how much they consume, and what they produce/manufacture. I just can't believe that people accept that they can do whatever they want ("The American Way" / "It's a free country", etc.) at the expense of things such as the air that I breathe.

Finally, when the argument is all about us trying to take "freedoms" away, my counter to that remains the same. The same corporations and individuals who create these emissions and consume these products are taking away my "freedoms" to breathe clean air, which I think is a basic universal human right.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:37 pm

I dig this Lord Monckton cat. He gives voice to what so many of us think and isn't afraid of taking on charlatans and frauds like Algore.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 1):
This guy is fantastic.... I agree with him 100%. Global warming in the new communism. The elitists want to control the masses and take away our freedoms. They want to tell us what to drive, where to live, how to build our homes, how we will manufacture, etc. Global warming people want to tell us we need to regress and live a simpler lifestyle. Man has always progressed and worked hard to increase his standard of living. We cannot and will not go backwards.

Amen brother.
 
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:44 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 3):
Three cheers for Lord Monckton.



Quoting N229nw (Reply 4):
It's sad when people who have no idea about communism try to draw comparisons that make no sense.

Its sad when people who appear to have no idea try to tell others they have no idea.

The principles of the Green movement are exactly parallel to those of communism.

1. Take from the successful and distribute to the unsuccessful.

2. Create a equal flat economy by punishing success and propping up the people who do not succeed.

3. Centralizing the economic controls within the government. Controlling commerce with strict laws making the government the single controller of who and what gets produced and who gets to produce it.

They have latched on to another very important factor in order to facilitate their agenda ...guilt and fear of killing polar bears and destroying our planet....a very effective vehicle that spans generations. This flavor of fear simply replaces the loathing of the rich used to raise the torches and red flags of the populists in days gone buy.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:50 pm

The only Global warming eminates from all the hot air expoused by the mouths of politicians in the Washington Beltway. Al Gore is no more an expert on this issue than Al Roker can predict earthquakes. It is just beaurocratic business as usual in which over paid bloated elitists grandstand their cases, attend expensive fund raisers at taxpayer expense, Hopenhagen conventions, which turned out to yield nothing more than an episode of Saturday Night Live could have.
As I recall, ice flows have been breaking apart for some time...I seem to recall an unsinkable ship, a beauty, any one ever hear of the Titanic?...sank 100 years ago from...Oh my God!...from an iceberg. Last winter and the previous winter in Europe, airliners had to descend to flight levels lower than normal to prevent fuel freeze as some of the coldest air on record was descending to lower altitudes.
I winter surf and for the last thirty five years, I've yet to see palm trees growing on my New York Beaches in January. In fact the overall water temp is predictable to the week...almost to the degree every year. I'm glad to see most average individuals see through all this rankor like wet toilet paper. Apparently the top brass forget who funds most taxbases that they so freely enjoy, people like you and me...hard workers that know the difference...j
 
Falcon84
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:01 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 1):

If you really believe that those of us who think we need to do something about global warming is the "new communism", then what you and this lunatic are proposing is the new fascism.
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AGM100
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:46 pm

Like most ideas , the good idea of taking care of the planet has been hijacked by the far left. For all the positive things that has already been done to clean up manufacturing operations and industries in the US . The left has actually set the efforts back by once again ...going way to far over the edge and grabbing for power.

Like health care ...the lefts solution is to have government take it all over and distribute it out as they wish. Its over reaching ...and in the end will fail.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
you and this lunatic are proposing is the new fascism.

Fascism is socialism ...to keep it simple, communism with some basic tweaks to retain nationalist fervor. All end up the same ..the government and unions being the central commanders in the command economy...doomed to suppress freedom and prosperity of non elitists .

Both systems eventually centralize all power at the state level , that is not what I stand for. It always reminds me of how fragile our system is ... and how we really need both sides of the spectrum engaged so that we maintain a balance.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:51 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 22):
Fascism is socialism ..

Wrong. Fascism is not socialism. Communism is the branch that has Socialism in it.

Both are dictatorial forms of government. Fascism allows private property, where Communism, in the form we had during the days of the USSR, believes everything is owned by the state.

Fascism is the furthest brand of conservatism; Communism is the furthest brand of liberalism.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:57 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 3):
Three cheers for Lord Monckton.

Three year prison term for Lord Monckton.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 13):

I'm sorry, this is the kind of person actually taken seriously by some here? Talk about 'out there'. So global warming is a 'communist conspiracy' now?

 bigthumbsup  . You have to wonder what they'll come up with next.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 11):
I think it's fairly amusing that Alex Jones has had Lord Monckton on his show,

I'm pretty sure they're cut from the same cloth. Any one that Alex Jones has as a guest should be taken lightly. They live from day to day thinking everyone is out to get 'em.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 13):
I think if the rest of what he said didn't already clearly show him to be little more than a conspiracy nut

 checkmark 
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AGM100
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:06 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Fascism is the furthest brand of conservatism

True .... the way I see fascism is that the government basically controls the "corporations" who essentially are nothing more than bureaucracies with names like " Krupps" , Mercedes , BMW ..Fiat (In WWII), etc.

I agree with you that if we let our right wing go over the edge that we could end up in this situation.... This is why I tend to always side with downsizing government ...either way it ends up badly if they become to powerful. Thus my opposition to Universal health care , cap and trade etc ..

We need to argue for balance somehow ... or we are in big trouble.
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:10 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 24):
Three year prison term for Lord Monckton.

How tolerant.  Wink
 
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:15 pm

Ah, the ever amusing TVMOB. Possibly the person in the world most out of touch with reality
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:21 pm

Christopher Monckton is an extremist politican, famous as one of the more mental of the Thatcher administration.

It's not only climate change he makes bizarre and ill-informed comments on. At the start of the HIV pandemic he said that the entire population should be screened forcibly every month, and anyone found to be infected with HIV should be immediately detained in isolation for the rest of their lives. He's since admitted that he was wrong because he didn't know all of the facts.

History is repeating itself. A dinosaur Conservative gets off on the the attention of the shouty US right-wing press. He makes increasingly obscure and offensive comments, either for the attention or because he's truly lost it. Less than a month ago he called the protestors at Copenhagen 'Hitler Youth'.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:59 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Wrong. Fascism is not socialism. Communism is the branch that has Socialism in it.

Both are dictatorial forms of government. Fascism allows private property, where Communism, in the form we had during the days of the USSR, believes everything is owned by the state.

Stop comparing apples and oranges (both of you). Socialism and Communism are economic concepts. Fascism is a political concept.

I would also add that Fascism, as applied in Europe in the 20s and 30s, was economically socialist, for the most part. The power of the state, above all else.
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AGM100
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:12 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Socialism and Communism are economic concepts

Agreed faciasm is the political motivator but both end up in the same place... just keeping it simple
( for me ) . Both endow all power to the state . That is one reason I prefer the title of "statist" over the ones usually being thrown around these days.

Statism covers it ... and encompasses fascism , socialism , and Communism. ( IMO ).
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Yellowstone
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:20 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
Statism covers it ... and encompasses fascism , socialism , and Communism. ( IMO ).

That ignores an important distinction - namely, the nature of the state. Under a socialist system, certain sectors of the economy are considered too vital to the public interest to be left in private control. As such, they are to be put under public control, with the state serving as the agent of the public will. In contrast, a fascist system subordinates both the people and the economy to the state. Rather than the state representing the will of the people (e.g. as determined through democratic elections), the state is superior to the people.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
AGM100
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:25 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):
Under a socialist system, certain sectors of the economy are considered too vital to the public interest to be left in private control

Agreed , and even I understand that controls are required ..especially in a economy the size of ours. But that should be limited ...very limited. Certainly not as much as we have now...IMO and no where near what Obama wants.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Arrow
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:30 pm



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 28):
He's since admitted that he was wrong because he didn't know all of the facts.

Well that immediately separates him from a lot of his lunatic peers, left and right. I'm happier with lunatics who can admit they are wrong than lunatics who won't, regardless of where their lunacy is on the political spectrum.

Our problem worldwide is the high number of infallible loonies who have enough skills to make them electable. Governments are infested with them.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
We need to argue for balance somehow ... or we are in big trouble.

 checkmark  Good point, but I don't see much of that in your neck of the woods. When it comes to climate change, the world needs a lot less of both Al Gore and Lord Monkton. Take them and and their radical cronies out of the picture and some reasonable progress might be possible.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:36 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):

That ignores an important distinction - namely, the nature of the state. Under a socialist system, certain sectors of the economy are considered too vital to the public interest to be left in private control. As such, they are to be put under public control, with the state serving as the agent of the public will. In contrast, a fascist system subordinates both the people and the economy to the state. Rather than the state representing the will of the people (e.g. as determined through democratic elections), the state is superior to the people.

That is the theoretical argument, but it falls flat. Basically you are saying that the democratic process makes state control over some/most/all aspects of people's lives, i.e. the loss of freedom, morally justified.

I don't buy it. First of all, just because a plurality voted for it does not make it right. Hitler was elected, as were many dictators.

Secondly, Power corrupts. Our own country, which was at one time one of the freest of all, is one where the people drown in a sea of bureaucracy every time you do anything. The state has the power to demand anything from you with no evidence of a crime, your bank statements, accounting for all you do, and enforce those demands with jail time. The more power you give to them the more it gets turned right back in our faces. No matter who I vote for this year, the IRS will still be there, My business will still have to jump through bureaucratic hoops if we want to sell services in Montana.

Thirdly, I see no difference that you state. Hitler, Mussolini, Kim, Mao, Stalin, Dada, Duvalier, all of them subordinated both the people and the economy to the power of the state, and for the benefit of the state (or specifically, those privileged few who ran it.)
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:38 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):
That ignores an important distinction - namely, the nature of the state. Under a socialist system, certain sectors of the economy are considered too vital to the public interest to be left in private control. As such, they are to be put under public control, with the state serving as the agent of the public will. In contrast, a fascist system subordinates both the people and the economy to the state. Rather than the state representing the will of the people (e.g. as determined through democratic elections), the state is superior to the people.

Socialism requires at least some degree of fascism to operate. You cannot have socialism without giving someone more rights than another person.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:39 pm

As for the title of the thread, look at what these fanatics are saying:

World economic growth at odds with climate targets
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...rld-economic-growth-climate-change
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
777236ER
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:40 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 33):
Well that immediately separates him from a lot of his lunatic peers, left and right. I'm happier with lunatics who can admit they are wrong than lunatics who won't, regardless of where their lunacy is on the political spectrum.

Well yes, but saying that forced monthly blood tests for the entire population, followed by detention in isolation for those with HIV is a slightly misguided view point to take isn't really rehabilitation to me.
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fruitbat
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:47 pm

Man-made climate change (or not)......Oh stuff it I really can't be bothered any more because every thread on here descends into a "my dads bigger than your dad" argument - it's worse than the comments posted in the Grauniad or Daily Wail (UK newspapers - work it out).

If it's happening, the solution is being delayed by those who deny it, and we're in danger of being totally screwed.

If it's not, then we're wasting time and energy worrying about it that could (supposedly) be used more productively elsewhere.

At least (scam or not) it's forced some organisations and companies to think outside the box and innovate a bit more - I love my clockwork radio and torch, and can't wait to see an a/c with Open Rotor engines!

Quoting Arrow (Reply 12):
Whatever happened to evidence gathering by scientific method followed by reasoned analysis and debate? It's like each side is tying to sell a new brand of toothpaste.

Spot on old bean.

25th Jan resolution - don't post on climate change threads until 1/1/2011 !
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gor

Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:49 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
ascism allows private property

There is no private property under fascism. The only "private property" is the one allowed to the individual so long he follows the state's command. This fails the control test of property rights. Just like you don't really have any other rights.

[Edited 2010-01-25 12:50:38]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
AGM100
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:13 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 33):
Good point, but I don't see much of that in your neck of the woods

How can you argue for balance with the group of radicals running around nowadays? . I want a clean environment , and I agree that some laws should play a role but these characters want such radical change that I must oppose them . I admit I am guilty of being "disagreeable" but I do not see much balance coming from the other side of the issue either. So we are swinging back and forth ..with little middle ground.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
CPH-R
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:43 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 24):
They live from day to day thinking everyone is out to get 'em.

To be honest, I don't think they do. At least Alex Jones has most likely figured out that there's a lot of money to be made off conspiracy theorists, just look at all the crap he's selling through his websites.

IIRC someone looked him up a few months ago and noted that he had bought a house in a well-off neighbourhood in Houston.
 
cws818
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:43 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 8):

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 2):
Your standard of living is different than my "elitist" standard of living. My standard of living includes pure drinking water, clean air to breathe, and food free from poisons and pathogens.

I already have that. The USA did not always have that and with hard work the wonderful country we have today came to be.

Thanks in no small part to the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act....

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 22):
Fascism is socialism

If you study history you will realize that the fascists were quite opposed to socialism.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 40):
How can you argue for balance with the group of radicals running around nowadays?

As though "radicals running around" is a recent phenomenon?
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:17 am

I have not followed on Lord Moncton but I am not keen on Alex Jones. Look him up in this video. He is showing a very aggressive behaviour sort of scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB03TLRbLX4

He is not going to do his movement any favovurs by showing himself like this.  Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Superfly
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:29 am



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 17):

Where I live in Chicago,

If you live on the south side of the city, your rates of asthma are higher because of the pollution. Much of the population is so poor that they can't buy meat other than cheap and unhealthy pork, chicken, and beef.

Tell that to a community who is so poor they can't afford anything other than cheap meats that are either pumped full of dangerous hormones and antibiotics OR can be infected with salmonella. .

 redflag 
Sorry my friend Tbar220 but I have to call B.S. on that one.
Most of my extended family resides on the south side of Chicago. They don't shop at trendy upscale enlightened grocery stores such as Whole Foods and the like. Most buy the affordable meats you despise at Moo & Oink and other low cost groceries in their neighborhood.
They make it taste incredible! Hell next time I am in town and there's a barbecue at my uncle's pad, I'll invite you over for a taste.
I have plenty of relatives that live well in to their 90s and are in great health and sound mind for their age.
All of those stores about lower-end neighborhoods getting substandard meats is a bunch of lies and hype by a bunch of extremist vegans/vegetarians and PETA like groups. They are on a crusade to raise the cost meat production and eventually run them out of business so our society becomes vegan.
On the south side of Chicago, street gangs are far more dangerous than a pork chop.





Quoting Cws818 (Reply 42):
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 22):
Fascism is socialism

If you study history you will realize that the fascists were quite opposed to socialism.

 checkmark 

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
Appearing on The Alex Jones Show yesterday, Lord Christopher Monckton went further than ever before in his vehement opposition to the elitists running the climate change scam, calling for the UN to be shut down and for fraudulent peddlers of global warming propaganda like Al Gore to be arrested and criminally prosecuted.

Monckton said that those who are threatening to shut down economies, bankrupt nations, and deepen the problems of the third world by implementing draconian policies in the name of global warming should be indicted, prosecuted and imprisoned “for a very long time”.

Hate to say it but I agree with most of what Lord Christopher Monckton is saying.
I don't have a problem with the United Nations and I don't have a problem with Al Gore. Afterall, I voted for Al Gore and still feel that he and most voters were robbed of an election in 2000.
That said, I think he needs to hang up the whole global warming nonsense.
Bring back the Concorde
 
TheCommodore
Posts: 3458
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gor

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:30 am

DocLightning,reply=10]Oh Alex Jones? Why does he always sound so hyped when he talks?
Can't he ever have a talk show without yelling?    
[/quot

Its allan Jones, Not alex Jones.

If you don't like the volume he speaks at turn the radio down.

[Edited 2010-01-26 02:57:29]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:32 am

Again, It's Allan Jones not alex !

Have you ever listened to him ???? as you don't seem to know his name ???
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 am



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 41):
To be honest, I don't think they do. At least Alex Jones has most likely figured out that there's a lot of money to be made off conspiracy theorists, just look at all the crap he's selling through his websites.



What crap ?

Maybe In your opinion.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 41):
IIRC someone looked him up a few months ago and noted that he had bought a house in a well-off neighbourhood in Houston.

So what if he did !

Is that a crime ?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
Hate to say it but I agree with most of what Lord Christopher Monckton is saying.
I don't have a problem with the United Nations and I don't have a problem with Al Gore. Afterall, I voted for Al Gore and still feel that he and most voters were robbed of an election in 2000.
That said, I think he needs to hang up the whole global warming nonsense.

Your right on bro !!
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:10 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Fascism allows private property

Nominally private. In practice the government allocates resources:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Fascism, as applied in Europe in the 20s and 30s, was economically socialist

 checkmark 

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Stop comparing apples and oranges (both of you). Socialism and Communism are economic concepts.

While Socialism and Communism are supposedly economic concepts, both cannot be realized without interventionist (in the first case) or totalitarian (in the second) government. The economics are inseparable from the politics.
 
baroque
Topic Author
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RE: Lord Monckton: Shut Down The UN, Arrest Al Gore

Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:36 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 46):
Again, It's Allan Jones not alex !

Have you ever listened to him ???? as you don't seem to know his name ???

Are you talking about the parrot? Aka Allan Jones but more correctly spelled Alan Jones?

Because if you are, then I am not how sure the parrot relates to this thread. Then again of course Alan Jones may have had had major facial surgery, a voice transplant and moved to Texas, and be having Utube videos posted under Alex Jones.

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