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dragon-wings
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26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:35 pm

A 26 foot wave hit a curise ship off the coast of France killing 2 people.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe...cruise.ship.wave/index.html?hpt=T2

[Edited 2010-03-03 13:36:07]
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DocLightning
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:57 pm

Wow... 26 feet doesn't seem that high, but apparently this one packed quite a punch.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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OA260
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:18 pm

Not a good week for cruise ships after the Costa Europa

 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:47 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Wow... 26 feet doesn't seem that high, but apparently this one packed quite a punch.

Stand underneath it and you might think differently! That's just shy of an Olympic high-dive of pure moving water.

1 cubic meter = 1000 kg

That's a lot of momentum transfer
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GQfluffy
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:06 am

That's what happens when they put a hotel on a hull.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
AverageUser
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:53 am

Can anyone count 14 decks on the ship's desk plan?

http://www.picassotravel.com/images/...LE%20PAGE%20DECK%20PLAN%202010.jpg

Seems to me the affected area was the restaurant on deck 5, which seems to be protruding on and level with the foredeck.

 
Crosscheck007
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:00 am

Was the ships name..... POSEIDON?

Cheers,

007
Je l'attends pas un homme. J'apporte le parti, j'apporte le feu d'artifice.
 
AverageUser
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:01 am

Quoting Crosscheck007 (Reply 6):
Was the ships name..... POSEIDON?

Sometimes life imitates art:

http://www.onnettomuustutkinta.fi//uploads/76rhyqiu2oo.pdf (page 74).

Two people in a capsized ship survived in an airbubble, banged on the bottom, yelled out their names, and were heard by the rescuers, a helicopter brought rescuers to cut a hole in the hull, and they were saved. One of the men, the chief engineer, returned to his work on the same ship after it was repaired, the other left the maritime field for good.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:11 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 3):
Stand underneath it and you might think differently! That's just shy of an Olympic high-dive of pure moving water.

not when you're a ship 150 feet above the water.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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MadameConcorde
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:20 am

This is all very sad. Many of the cruise ships that are out are not made to withstand any bad weather.

I will not go cruising on ships other than the Cunard Queens. The QE2 and QM2 are the only ones I have sailed on and I will go sailing on no others.

I remember last time Queen Victoria was here, Captain McNaught decided to wait 3 hours ffor the storm to clear and stayed in the harbour instead. Another time he did not take Vickie to Monaco again because of bad weather and moored in the Bay of Villefranche instead. Although QV is a big strong ship, Captain McNaught was just playing it safe and he was right.

This is a recount by Captain Ronald Warwick about the QE2 and the 1995 freak wave.
I have got a whole collection of QE2 stories like this one.

read on...

In one prominent rogue-wave encounter, Capt. Ronald Warwick, who followed in his father's footsteps to command the British ocean liner Queen Elizabeth II, was on the bridge at 4 a.m. on Sept. 11, 1995. Two hundred miles off Newfoundland, headed for New York, Warwick had been trying, without success, to dodge Hurricane Luis.

Minutes before, monstrous seas smashed windows in the Grand Salon, 72 feet off the water. Warwick had given the order confining passengers to quarters.

Suddenly, a huge wave loomed off the bow, huge even for a ship the size of the QE2, at nearly 1,000 feet long, more than 100 feet wide, carrying nearly 3,000 people.

Hundreds of miles from shore, the face of the wave was steep, like a breaking wall of water. Warwick later described that "it looked as though the ship was headed for the white cliffs of Dover."

Officers on the bridge estimated the wave at 92 feet, because they were eyeball to eyeball with the crest.

"(I)t broke with tremendous force over the bow. An incredible shudder went through the ship, followed a few minutes later by two smaller shudders," Warwick recalled in a 1996 article in Marine Observer.

The ship's bow dropped into a "hole" of a trough behind the first wave and was hit by a second wave of between 91 and 96 feet high that cleaned a mast right off the foredeck.

Warwick, his passengers and crew were lucky. No one was injured. It was a far different fate for the German container ship Munchen, which sank in the middle of the Atlantic in 1978 with no warning, no May Day.


QE2 ruled the waves.

        
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:55 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
This is all very sad. Many of the cruise ships that are out are not made to withstand any bad weather.

That statement is not correct, all ships are made to withstand bad weather, a ship sank in April 1912 where a lot of people died, you may have heard of it, the RMS Titanic. In response to this disaster The International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) was passed in 1914. All ships have to meet SOLAS requirements, these cover everything from construction, fire protection and detection, life saving appliances, navigation.

Ships are also built to under the rules of several classification societies, the major classification societies are:

Den Norske Veritas
Lloyd's Register
American Bureau of Shipping
Bureau Veritas
Germanisher Lloyd
Russian Maritime Register of Shipping

So to say that the QE2 and QM2 are safer than other passanger vessels just isn't correct.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
I remember last time Queen Victoria was here, Captain McNaught decided to wait 3 hours ffor the storm to clear and stayed in the harbour instead. Another time he did not take Vickie to Monaco again because of bad weather and moored in the Bay of Villefranche instead. Although QV is a big strong ship, Captain McNaught was just playing it safe and he was right.

And he probably wouldn't have attempted either situation in QM2 either, bad weather makes handling a ship difficult, Monaco is a rather small harbour, even superyachts have issues entering and leaving.

BTW Queen Victoria and Queen Mary 2 were both built under Lloyds Register supervision.

[Edited 2010-03-04 12:13:16]

[Edited 2010-03-04 12:13:44]
 
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Aesma
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:51 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 4):
That's what happens when they put a hotel on a hull.

I would say a hotel as a hull.

KiwiRob : sure, those boats won't sink easily, and they have enough life rafts. But I always wondered about safety when seeing windows very low on the hull.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:49 pm

If it was a safety issue then ships wouldn't have windows close to the waterline.
 
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OA260
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:33 pm

 
cptkrell
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:56 pm

So, is this being suspected as a so-named rogue wave encounter or was the water a result of weather or seismic activity?

Just wondering as I haven't heard any further reports. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
747400sp
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:07 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
This is all very sad. Many of the cruise ships that are out are not made to withstand any bad weather.

I will not go cruising on ships other than the Cunard Queens. The QE2 and QM2 are the only ones I have sailed on and I will go sailing on no others.

I remember last time Queen Victoria was here, Captain McNaught decided to wait 3 hours ffor the storm to clear and stayed in the harbour instead. Another time he did not take Vickie to Monaco again because of bad weather and moored in the Bay of Villefranche instead. Although QV is a big strong ship, Captain McNaught was just playing it safe and he was right.

This is a recount by Captain Ronald Warwick about the QE2 and the 1995 freak wave.
I have got a whole collection of QE2 stories like this one.

read on...

In one prominent rogue-wave encounter, Capt. Ronald Warwick, who followed in his father's footsteps to command the British ocean liner Queen Elizabeth II, was on the bridge at 4 a.m. on Sept. 11, 1995. Two hundred miles off Newfoundland, headed for New York, Warwick had been trying, without success, to dodge Hurricane Luis.

Minutes before, monstrous seas smashed windows in the Grand Salon, 72 feet off the water. Warwick had given the order confining passengers to quarters.

Suddenly, a huge wave loomed off the bow, huge even for a ship the size of the QE2, at nearly 1,000 feet long, more than 100 feet wide, carrying nearly 3,000 people.

Hundreds of miles from shore, the face of the wave was steep, like a breaking wall of water. Warwick later described that "it looked as though the ship was headed for the white cliffs of Dover."

Officers on the bridge estimated the wave at 92 feet, because they were eyeball to eyeball with the crest.

"(I)t broke with tremendous force over the bow. An incredible shudder went through the ship, followed a few minutes later by two smaller shudders," Warwick recalled in a 1996 article in Marine Observer.

The ship's bow dropped into a "hole" of a trough behind the first wave and was hit by a second wave of between 91 and 96 feet high that cleaned a mast right off the foredeck.

Warwick, his passengers and crew were lucky. No one was injured. It was a far different fate for the German container ship Munchen, which sank in the middle of the Atlantic in 1978 with no warning, no May Day.


QE2 ruled the waves.


A true Cunard Queen, ( QM, QE, QE2 AND QM2) can really take some stuff!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:17 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
not when you're a ship 150 feet above the water.

Well, apparently you are wrong or people would not have been hurt.  

Height doesn't provide stability, width does. If the wave hit broadside, it would result in a momentum transfer along the shortest moment of inertia of the ship. How much of an angular acceleration does it take to toss an unsuspecting person into the bulkhead next to them? Probably not much.
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GQfluffy
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:24 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
That statement is not correct, all ships are made to withstand bad weather...Ships are also built to under the rules of several classification societies...So to say that the QE2 and QM2 are safer than other passenger vessels just isn't correct.

Well, like you said, all ships are designed for bad weather, yet some are designed for certain areas of the world and those particular weather and sea conditions. The Queens (old and new...well...QM2 anyway) were designed for what is essentially the worst, roughest route in the world to receive regular steaming service. I have little doubt in my mind that this 35'/10-15 meter wave would've been nothing for any of the Queens, even if it hit broadside.

Yes, even the largest, boxiest, most fugly cruise ship has to be designed to certain standards, but in this case, I'd say this design failed.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
Crosscheck007
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:21 am

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 7):

Crazy!!   


Cheers,

007
Je l'attends pas un homme. J'apporte le parti, j'apporte le feu d'artifice.
 
grozzy
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:09 am

The Cunard queens are designed as liners. They can cope with Atlantic storms. I wouldnt want to be on a carribean cruise ship in the middle of a stormy Atlantic.
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:48 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 17):
I have little doubt in my mind that this 35'/10-15 meter wave would've been nothing for any of the Queens, even if it hit broadside.

If hit broadside that probably means QM2 has lost her steering, she would be in serious trouble if hit broadside by a 90ft rogue wave.

Quoting grozzy (Reply 19):
I wouldnt want to be on a carribean cruise ship in the middle of a stormy Atlantic.

There is no doubt ships are built for certain environments, I very much doubt you would see a cruise ship in the middle of the Atlantic in a winter storm. However the senarios which Madameconcord brought up i.e. entering Monaco harbour would have been a problem for any ship, the QM2 would be no exception.

Cruise ships have encountered and survived rogue waves in the past:

Norwegian Spirit encountered a rogue wave in January 06 off the coast of Tortola

Norwegian Dawn encountered 3 70ft waves off the coast of Georgia in 05
 
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speedygonzales
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:00 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):

Haven't you heard that black paint on the lower hull of a cruise ship gives it magical wave-avoiding properties?  
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:37 am

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
the senarios which Madameconcord brought up i.e. entering Monaco harbour would have been a problem for any ship, the QM2 would be no exception.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
Monaco is a rather small harbour, even superyachts have issues entering and leaving.

I have seen QV docked in Monaco only two times. The first time the weather was perfect. I forgot the Captain's name that time. Captain McNaught was still Master on the QE2. Generally she always stays out at sea and the passengers are ferried into harbour with the little shuttles.

This is a picture of Vickie that same night as they were waiting for the powerful wind storm to clear before they could take Vickie out to sea. Aside from one or two harbour staff there was hardly a soul outside. It was so freezing cold and windy. A perfect night to see the Cunard Queen without any restrictions. I got me heaps of pictures that night.

In fact the real problem that night besides the bad weather was the two mega-yachts Lady Moura and Atlantis that were docked right nearby Vickie. It really took the experience and expertise of a Ship Master like Captain McNaught to get Vickie in and out of the harbour that day.



Queen Mary 2 is way too big to fit in the Monaco harbour. She is always kept outside at some distance and she is always a sight to behold. I know she can withstand rogue waves very well. I have a story of a recent crossing where they met a huge storm and went with it rather well. Big Mary is not just any Ship. She is a Round the World Liner sailing the Seven Seas.



It was the same when Lizzie came to Monaco. She was such a wonder to look at yet people did not even pay attention. For them she was "just another cruise ship" in Monaco.



Big Mary and Vickie are both on their World Cruises right now going opposite ways. I am sure they have met some very big waves and will do again before they are back in Southampton.

[Edited 2010-03-05 00:40:15]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
AverageUser
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:08 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 14):
So, is this being suspected as a so-named rogue wave encounter or was the water a result of weather or seismic activity?

No there does not have to be any seismic activity. Sometimes "normal" waves combine into monster waves. External factors such as depth changes in the sea may contribute. For instance there's a known area off the Finnish island of Utö where in certain winds the rising of the seafloor will work in that way. That area claimed the Estonia in 1994 with 852 lives lost when the bow visor and the ramp/door broke loose in a storm.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Well, apparently you are wrong or people would not have been hurt.

My daily paper says the victims were killed by shards of class and fittings and pieces of broken furniture. Apparently the restaurant was instantly flooded by the mass of water. The hydrostatic pressure by the weight of the column of water on the windows must have been huge.

Quoting grozzy (Reply 19):
They can cope with Atlantic storms.

The unsung heroes are the ordinary container ships that will have to cope the Atlantic in any weather, any season.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
It really took the experience and expertise of a Ship Master like Captain McNaught to get Vickie in and out of the harbour that day.

You can joystick modern passenger ships with podded propulsion and bow thrusters in and out of any slot, or spin them a 360 degrees round on the spot.


Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 17):
Yes, even the largest, boxiest, most fugly cruise ship has to be designed to certain standards, but in this case, I'd say this design failed.

The design is actually a custom order one-off for short Baltic cruises starting from Stockholm, but the ship went elsewhere since the original customer failed to claim the ship.

[Edited 2010-03-05 05:25:38]
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:12 pm

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 23):
The unsung heroes are the ordinary container ships that will have to cope the Atlantic in any weather, any season.

I would consider standby vessels as the toughest vessels afloat, they have to stay out no matter what the condition.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 23):
You can joystick modern passenger ships with podded propulsion and bow thrusters in and out of any slot, or spin them a 360 degrees round on the spot.

Still bad weather, especially windy conditions make manouvering large ships difficult no matter what the propulsion system is, hence the reason why some ports still use tugs for cruise ships despite the sophisticated propulsion systems they use.
 
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c172akula
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:36 pm

It's the ocean, we can design and build as safe as we think and mother nature will always throw something at us that will claim lives.

Simple as that.
 
AverageUser
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:29 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
Still bad weather, especially windy conditions make manouvering large ships difficult no matter what the propulsion system is, hence the reason why some ports still use tugs for cruise ships despite the sophisticated propulsion systems they use.

I can't think what tugs could do to a podded propulsion ship, except being in the way. A strong tide at the harbour or any equipment failures are another matter. At least in Helsinki the big ferries that have a conventional rudder/propeller and of course the bow thrusters, moor and leave totally unassisted. Podded propulsion works equally well in all directions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bII_6r6Aeoc (the QM2, fast motion capture at around 1:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyY7BVHyEjM (not a trick video, it really is that narrow!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2_4rIE0DZw
 
Starbuk7
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RE: 26 Foot Wave Hits Cuise Ship - 2 Killed

Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:28 pm

I have done far to many cruises on 5 different aircraft carriers. They are not that special.

There is nothing that gives me the desire to go out to sea on another ship, I really do not care what kind of ammenities it has. While you are out ther you can not go anywhere else untilthe ship pulls back into port, and you are subject to what the ocean gives you. Why, I can do the same types of activities in Las Vegas and don't have to worry about sinking.

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