Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Topic Author
Posts: 2968
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:49 am

"Democratic senators ripped their Republican counterparts for forcing cancellations of hearings throughout the Senate on Wednesday, claiming that the GOP is needlessly blocking essential national security business."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34964.html#ixzz0j9Fsbjl2

This immature, irresponsible and enormously costly stunt of shutting down all senate business simply because they can is the Republican senators' equivalent of their followers' bricks through windows. Does anyone remember when Newt Gingrich tried to shut down the government during the Clinton administration? It reflected very poorly on the Republican Party then and this will reflect poorly on the GOP today. Is this the GOP's way of cutting gas lines and throwing rocks through congressional offiice's windows?

Are "Real Americans" only likely Republican voters that live in "Real America", a GOP code word meaning "Red states"? Are citizens in "Blue states" not Americans? What the heck is going on in Washington, D.C.? Are they trying to have the Capitol and White House burnt to the ground by the extremists elements in this country? Telephone death threats are flooding into the offices of Congresspeople and Senators! If this is their aim, revolution could well be coming next.

[Edited 2010-03-24 18:51:25]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
AirStairs
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:25 am

The speed with which you went from simple fact to hysterical conjecture and hyperbole is a little worrying. The second sentence of your post accuses someone of being immature and irresponsible but you must have forgotten those priorities by the end of your paragraph when you make sweeping (and on my view irresponsible) accusations that somehow that GOP is involved or at least complicit in violence.

Your last paragraph is just.........

Let me offer: Blocking all hearings is entirely unproductive, I haven't heard one statement by a Republican even offering justification for it or explaining why or how it will help anything. But I do know that not every Republican is involved in the blocking, McCain is one example. Because the request to continue after two hours requires unanimous consent, just one Senator has the power to shut it down. NYT notes that this is not a new tactic and has historically been used by both sides of the aisle to express displeasure. But unless the Republicans can demonstrate how this is effective in any manner, they should stop now.

Did that hurt so bad?
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:27 am

Immature my arse.

These republicans are doing what hey need to do to protect our nation from the threat posed by the Democrats.

Most of the democrats who are feigning threats are in actually just trying to deflect their sins against the people of America and protray themselves as the victim.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:28 am

And please, don't equate all of us with brick-throwers. I certainly don't think every female Democrat looks like Pelosi.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:31 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
If this is their aim, revolution could well be coming next.

Whoa there! Calm it down a notch. I think we'll be okay. If we can bankrupt what remained of our future earlier this week without rioting in the streets, I think a little stunt like this should pass with minimal fuss.

Trust me, it will probably be just fine.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
AirStairs
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:45 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
These republicans are doing what hey need to do to protect our nation from the threat posed by the Democrats.

They should be doing what they need to do to protect liberty from the irrationality and emotionality of a group that wants to rush through a bill that even they admit is not the solution. But there isn't really a way the Senate can block the reconciliation vote as far as I'm aware, and delaying unrelated committee meetings does nothing to address this problem. So I would advocate a more reasoned, productive approach, knowing full well the improbability of that happening.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
These republicans are doing what hey need to do to protect our nation from the threat posed by the Democrats.

Most of the democrats who are feigning threats are in actually just trying to deflect their sins against the people of America and protray themselves as the victim.

May I ask, what threat do the Democrats pose? Do we not live here, raise our children here, love our country, invest our money here, fight and die to protect our country?  
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:52 am

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 5):
But there isn't really a way the Senate can block the reconciliation vote as far as I'm aware, and delaying unrelated committee meetings does nothing to address this problem. So I would advocate a more reasoned, productive approach, knowing full well the improbability of that happening.

Now that I can agree with. Makes them look petty, and childiish.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:54 am

I would like to know what the old Warrior John McCain thinks of this tactic.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15472
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:59 am

The Republicans are being a bunch of sore and angry losers playing to their base. The Democrats just have to let the Republicans play this out for a while, let the Republicans themselves look bad to the public and use the media to make Republicans themselves realize they need to participate normaly to get their needed input to deal with our many issues and problems. Democrats too must also move more to the center as well and not just listen to their base.
 
User avatar
2707200X
Posts: 6628
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:31 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:07 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
These republicans are doing what hey need to do to protect our nation from the threat posed by the Democrats.


The biggest threat to America are the acts of violence that are being promoted by the far right, the Tea Party movement and those on the fringe who run the GOP.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Most of the democrats who are feigning threats are in actually just trying to deflect their sins against the people of America and portray themselves as the victim.

If God forbid and I mean it any violence should happen at any member of Congress as a result of HC passage all these people who go out and promote violence and even those empathize with violence online are culpable for what happens.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:19 am

[quote=2707200X,reply=10]The biggest threat to America are the acts of violence that are being promoted by the far right, the Tea Party movement and those on the fringe who run the GOP.[/quote

I just heard on NBC local news that the Tea Party published a congressmans address. The brother of the congressman had his gas line cut which fed his outdoor grille. The Tea Party obviously gave out the wrong address.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10148
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:28 am

The Republicans are simply having a Pout-Out to show how upset they are that the Democrats brought in Health Care Reform.

They have to show that they can impact legislation, but are careful to NOT DISCLOSE the Republican that objected to the committee hearings operating normally.

So now we have some rather busy Generals sitting on their ass while the Republicans pout?

Nah. Let the Democrats on the committee invite them for drinks & dinner. And extend an invitation to the Republicans that want to come and be productive. Don't keep a record and keep the aides away - might be the most productive time that Senators have had in years!
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:29 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
May I ask, what threat do the Democrats pose? Do we not live here, raise our children here, love our country, invest our money here, fight and die to protect our country?

Lets see where to begin...didn't the Democrats just ram through a health care bill that the majority of the people did not want? Next they plan to take on immigration reform again something the majority of the people are against and if thats not enough they want to pass Cap and Trade, which is based on junk science. Those are just a few threats the Democrats pose.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 10):
The biggest threat to America are the acts of violence that are being promoted by the far right, the Tea Party movement and those on the fringe who run the GOP.

You mean like the two SEIU members that beat the Tea Party member in St Louis or maybe the MoveOn.org member that bit the finger off of the Tea Party member Thousand Oak, California?
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 10:55 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:37 am

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 9):
The Democrats just have to let the Republicans play this out for a while, let the Republicans themselves look bad to the public and use the media to make Republicans themselves realize they need to participate normaly to get their needed input to deal with our many issues and problems.

Erm, the republicans didn't just ram a trillion dollars of unwanted "help" down our throats. I doubt they have much to worry about wrt looking bad compared to the other party here. . .
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:41 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Lets see where to begin...didn't the Democrats just ram through a health care bill that the majority of the people did not want? Next they plan to take on immigration reform again something the majority of the people are against and if thats not enough they want to pass Cap and Trade, which is based on junk science. Those are just a few threats the Democrats pose.

They did pass healthcare, and we shall see shortly what the people think of it. Seems to be gaining some support, if it passes 51% in the polls, I guess it is a good bill supported by the majority. Immigration reform, I do not support any which allows a path to citizenship as proposed. Is not Sen. Sessions of Alabama a Republican? It seems according to the news, that he supports the new reform bill which allows such a path. At least his name is associated with it. Cap and trade, at this time, no opinion.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
2707200X
Posts: 6628
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:31 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:47 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
You mean like the two SEIU members that beat the Tea Party member in St Louis or maybe the MoveOn.org member that bit the finger off of the Tea Party member Thousand Oak, California?


I did say violence so YES to those freaks but I still stand by my point. I have also condemned those of the left as well as those of the right.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
AirStairs
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:51 am

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 16):
I did say violence so YES to those freaks but I still stand by my point. I have also condemned those of the left as well as those of the right.

Okay and we all condemn violence on both the left and the right so there is really no discussion here...
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:57 am

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
Is not Sen. Sessions of Alabama a Republican? It seems according to the news, that he supports the new reform bill which allows such a path.

According to Senator Sessions web site: He is against any bill that will provides a pathway to citizenship for any illegal immigrant.
 
User avatar
2707200X
Posts: 6628
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:31 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:11 am

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 17):
Okay and we all condemn violence on both the left and the right so there is really no discussion here...

I honestly don't know other than people stick with their biases, I don't read minds nor do I stand with every lib position much like plenty of conservatives don't represent the entire right wing spectrum.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4807
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 5):
They should be doing what they need to do to protect liberty

Protect liberty? Please. What liberty have we lost?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
These republicans are doing what hey need to do to protect our nation from the threat posed by the Democrats.

Oh really? What threat do the Democrats pose in your world? Is this just more of the same "only Republicans believe in freedom, liberty, America, etc." BS?
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:23 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 18):
According to Senator Sessions web site: He is against any bill that will provides a pathway to citizenship for any illegal immigrant.

I have read a couple of times about Sen. Sessions and the new immigration reform, I was confused by the insinuation that he supported it. This was in my local paper. Thanks for the info, I will check his site.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10148
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:25 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
didn't the Democrats just ram through a health care bill that the majority of the people did not want?

Starting to look like the majority are happy with the reform. Maybe it's because they slowly learned about the good parts, even with the Republicans trying to make it look bad.

Let's see what the majority says in November.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Next they plan to take on immigration reform

Good. We need to look at the situation. I'm in favor of worker permits that cannot lead to citizenship. But make them pay taxes that demonstrates being able to support their being here.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):
Those are just a few threats the Democrats pose.

Under your approach both parties are a danger if they don't agree with you. Pity.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 18):
According to Senator Sessions web site: He is against any bill that will provides a pathway to citizenship for any illegal immigrant.

I am too, but that doesn't mean we need to address the issue in a reasonable manner. Otherwise we're playing the wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more game.
 
Continental
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:30 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Oh really? What threat do the Democrats pose in your world? Is this just more of the same "only Republicans believe in freedom, liberty, America, etc." BS?

If anything, the Republicans pose a greater threat to this country! They love guns!     
 
kevi747
Posts: 991
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:59 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:39 am

Sour grapes from the party who spent 8 years flushing our great country and her economy down the toilet to line the pockets of our most unscrupulous elite.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 14195
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:43 am

Quoting kevi747 (Reply 24):
Sour grapes from the party who spent 8 years flushing our great country and her economy down the toilet to line the pockets of our most unscrupulous elite.

Now that is saying it like it happened, and is still happening. We are living with the legacy of those years. My net worth sure shows it.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3122
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:43 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 23):
If anything, the Republicans pose a greater threat to this country! They love guns!

I know you're being tongue in cheek here, but i'm a firm beliver in gun rights and i'm a flaming gay liberal.
Don't think the far-righties are the only ones who know how to operate one.  
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4807
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:51 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 23):
If anything, the Republicans pose a greater threat to this country! They love guns!

  

Quoting johnboy (Reply 26):
I know you're being tongue in cheek here, but i'm a firm beliver in gun rights and i'm a flaming gay liberal.
Don't think the far-righties are the only ones who know how to operate one.

Oh please! You probably just like the feel of that long, hard piece of weaponry.     





[Edited 2010-03-24 21:53:32]
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
AirStairs
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:01 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Protect liberty? Please. What liberty have we lost?

The liberty to decide whether or not I want to buy health insurance. It is more significant to some than others, but the precedent is problematic no matter where you stand on insurance itself.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
Let's see what the majority says in November.

I am so curious about this blind trust in majoritarianism. Do you think there is really any correlation between what the majority thinks or wants and what is good health, economic, or fiscal policy? Given that most people know woefully little about any of the 3, why do you place so much trust in them?
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:05 am

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 28):
Do you think there is really any correlation between what the majority thinks or wants and what is good health, economic, or fiscal policy? Given that most people know woefully little about any of the 3, why do you place so much trust in them?

A majority is never fully trustworthy, and completely guilty of "group think." That is the danger of the majority. 1 or 2 leaders, and a bunch of sheep. "I am your Shepherd and you are my Sheep." - or something like that. I think I heard that in a fairytale once.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Topic Author
Posts: 2968
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:47 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 29):
That is the danger of the majority

If that is a danger, then what the hell is democracy all about? Maybe Americans deserve to have a Joe McCarthy or a Timothy McVeigh or a Osama Bin :Laden type of personality show up once or twice every generation to remind us what is truly important in this country - authentic leadership put in place by the people and not put into power by special interest groups, lobbyists, the military-industrial complex, and all of the damn bankers on freaking Wall Street!

And this is coming from a registered LIbertarian, I am not a sheep of either political party!

[Edited 2010-03-24 22:49:35]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:17 am

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 9):
The Republicans are being a bunch of sore and angry losers playing to their base. The Democrats just have to let the Republicans play this out for a while, let the Republicans themselves look bad to the public and use the media to make Republicans themselves realize they need to participate normaly to get their needed input to deal with our many issues and problems.

   Being obstructionist on matters completely unrelated to health care is silly, childish, and isn't going to look good for the Republicans if they keep it up. If they want to make that bed, the Democrats need to make sure that they lie in it.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 28):
The liberty to decide whether or not I want to buy health insurance. It is more significant to some than others, but the precedent is problematic no matter where you stand on insurance itself.

I don't have the choice of whether I want police protection or not - I've got to pay for it, because it's a public service. The decision to treat health care the same way rather than as a private commodity is significant, but not without precedent.

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 28):
I am so curious about this blind trust in majoritarianism. Do you think there is really any correlation between what the majority thinks or wants and what is good health, economic, or fiscal policy? Given that most people know woefully little about any of the 3, why do you place so much trust in them?

That's a fair point, but remember also that one of the talking points of those against the health care bill is that a majority of the people don't want it. By your logic, why should we place so much faith in that? It is a two-way street.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:29 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 30):
If that is a danger, then what the hell is democracy all about?

Sorry, perhaps I should have prefaced by saying that I'm a jaded bitter queer who sees the "majority" enjoying rights of which they deem me "unfit" for, and spend millions and millions of dollars to make sure I never see those rights based on a 2000 year old text. Sorry for not clarifying that statement. And I'm also sorry that I see those people, the majority, affiliated with the GOP. But, this isn't about gay rights, is it?

So excuse my stupid invalid comment, and continue...
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15797
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:17 am

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 28):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 20):
Protect liberty? Please. What liberty have we lost?


The liberty to decide whether or not I want to buy health insurance. It is more significant to some than others, but the precedent is problematic no matter where you stand on insurance itself.

And AirStairs introduces OA412 to the mat...

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:50 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33):
And AirStairs introduces OA412 to the mat...


That was KO-worthy? Wow, how standards have fallen.  

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MoltenRock
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:35 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:18 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
This immature, irresponsible and enormously costly stunt of shutting down all senate business simply because they can is the Republican senators' equivalent of their followers' bricks through windows. Does anyone remember when Newt Gingrich tried to shut down the government during the Clinton administration? It reflected very poorly on the Republican Party then and this will reflect poorly on the GOP today. Is this the GOP's way of cutting gas lines and throwing rocks through congressional offiice's windows?

Amen! The GOP has been stoking this fear and violence 24/7. I had to laugh my arse off when Glenn Beck refused to admit facts, which is no surprise given his cultic beliefs, and saying he was "done" talking about healthcare and started to demonize all the other legislation coming down the path. He refused to even mention what items actually were in the historic bill just passed. FAUX news pretended that nothing of import was going to help well over 150 million Americans in the coming 1/2 decade.
 
Continental
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:11 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
That was KO-worthy? Wow, how standards have fallen.

Yeah, totally. Historically KO's were awarded for factual information, not opinions. Or, they were issued for a hilarious comeback. But, what I never noticed before, was that the guy making the punch has "Sugar" on his waist. 
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:35 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 13):

Lets see where to begin...didn't the Democrats just ram through a health care bill that the majority of the people did not want? Next they plan to take on immigration reform again something the majority of the people are against and if thats not enough they want to pass Cap and Trade, which is based on junk science. Those are just a few threats the Democrats pose.

Who says the majority doesn't want it?! There's a few angry folks out there who are screaming the loudest. Americans by and large want health care reform. Obama had a resounding victory over McCain, and a big part of his agenda was reforming health care. He never hid this fact once during the election, and neither did many of the democrats in the house and senate. How can you say people don't want our elected officials to do this, when they voted them in on a platform of change?

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 14):
Erm, the republicans didn't just ram a trillion dollars of unwanted "help" down our throats. I doubt they have much to worry about wrt looking bad compared to the other party here. . .

But they did ram trillions of dollars of debt down our throats by blowing up half the Middle East in endless wars while at the same time cutting taxes in a way that disproportionately favored the rich. Why is this any better than providing health care to all American citizens?

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 9):
The Republicans are being a bunch of sore and angry losers playing to their base. The Democrats just have to let the Republicans play this out for a while, let the Republicans themselves look bad to the public and use the media to make Republicans themselves realize they need to participate normaly to get their needed input to deal with our many issues and problems. Democrats too must also move more to the center as well and not just listen to their base.

  

You know, more and more I think that health care supporters should be thanking Republicans for giving them the opportunity to pass these reforms. Republicans were in charge of the government for 8 years and what do we have? Two endless wars, trillions in debt, near double-digit unemployment, a global financial crisis, hatred from the rest of the world, increasing crime, more government control over our personal lives, and the list goes on and on. Had Republicans not screwed the country up so badly, Americans wouldn't have voted them out en masse in the way that they did, thus creating an opening for Democrats to take a majority and pass health care legislation. Thanks GOP!
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4807
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33):
And AirStairs introduces OA412 to the mat...

Yeah not so much. People keep talking about the loss of freedom and liberty as if not having health insurance is some important freedom. It's not, and frankly those claiming that we've lost liberty because we must all be insured (by 2014 no less) ought to be ashamed of themselves. Additionally, this claim assumes that all of the uninsured in this country are that way by choice. Do you honestly and truly believe that?

When Thomas Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence, he spoke of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness yet so many of you are hell-bent on focusing on liberty while completely ignoring the other two. The right to Life and the right to the Pursuit of Happiness are both intrinsically tied to good health.

There are currently about 46.3 million people in this country without health insurance. The vast majority of these people did not choose to go uninsured because they were given the freedom of choice and arguing otherwise is disingenuous. So explain to me how those whose "health plan" involves only going to the ER for the most serious ailments and avoiding all routine (possibly lifesaving) procedures because they simply can't afford them are truly fulfilling all three of the basic human rights put forth by Jefferson? What's that, they're not? Didn't think so. Not so much of a KO now is it?


Quoting Mir (Reply 34):
That was KO-worthy? Wow, how standards have fallen.

Indeed.

Quoting rwSEA (Reply 37):
But they did ram trillions of dollars of debt down our throats by blowing up half the Middle East in endless wars while at the same time cutting taxes in a way that disproportionately favored the rich. Why is this any better than providing health care to all American citizens?

Frankly, anyone who argues that the wars and tax cuts for the rich are better than healthcare ought to be ashamed of themselves. I've said it before and I'll say it again, imagine what we could do in this country with all the money being spent on those wars.

Quoting rwSEA (Reply 37):
Who says the majority doesn't want it?! There's a few angry folks out there who are screaming the loudest. Americans by and large want health care reform. Obama had a resounding victory over McCain, and a big part of his agenda was reforming health care. He never hid this fact once during the election, and neither did many of the democrats in the house and senate. How can you say people don't want our elected officials to do this, when they voted them in on a platform of change?

That's the thing that makes me laugh every time I hear a conservative say "wait til December". People voted for Obama and those in the Senate knowing full well that health care reform was going to be one of his top priorities, yet there are those in the GOP now claiming that independents were duped into voting for him. Seriously? Do you really believe that independents in this country are idiots, because I certainly don't? Just more misinformation from some of the usual suspects.

[Edited 2010-03-25 11:32:21]
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15797
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:09 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 38):
this claim assumes that all of the uninsured in this country are that way by choice. Do you honestly and truly believe that?

Of course not. However, I have a huge issue with forcing change upon those who do choose to be uninsured - and there are plenty of them out there.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 38):
explain to me how those whose "health plan" involves only going to the ER for the most serious ailments and avoiding all routine (possibly lifesaving) procedures because they simply can't afford them are truly fulfilling all three of the basic human rights put forth by Jefferson?

And that's the basic difference between your way of thinking and my way of thinking - Jefferson didn't believe the government's role is to ensure you fulfill those basic human rights, but rather to ensure that government doesn't actively deny you from trying to fulfill them. He wanted and believed in LESS government, not more.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:38 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 39):

Of course not. However, I have a huge issue with forcing change upon those who do choose to be uninsured - and there are plenty of them out there.

Then how do we ensure they don't take advantage of the system? Do we put them on a blacklist where they are to be denied any treatment (or at least, the government won't reimburse emergency rooms that treat them)? I have a huge issue with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own health. Up until now, some people couldn't afford it, but under this bill there will be no excuse for not having health care.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 39):
And that's the basic difference between your way of thinking and my way of thinking - Jefferson didn't believe the government's role is to ensure you fulfill those basic human rights, but rather to ensure that government doesn't actively deny you from trying to fulfill them. He wanted and believed in LESS government, not more.

I think a lot of people prefer less regulation to more regulation. But there are times throughout our history when we as a society decided that government regulation was necessary. Several reforms were created out of the great depression, including SEC regulation of securities and eventually social security, for example. From the standpoint of a greater society, it is unacceptable that health care is out of reach to a large segment of the population for financial reasons alone. I don't see this as government being involved in personal lives; I see it as a collective decision that all in our country deserve and should have access to health care.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15797
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:56 pm

Quoting rwSEA (Reply 40):
But there are times throughout our history when we as a society decided that government regulation was necessary. Several reforms were created out of the great depression, including SEC regulation of securities

And the fundamental difference is that the regulations you speak of all pertain to optional, voluntary businesses, industries or facets of life.

Regarding healthcare, will my taxes go up? Absolutely. Does that make me happy? Not in the least. But I can learn to live with it. The problem I absolutely refuse to learn to live with is the government making something mandatory for all citizens to purchase, because it leads to a slippery slope where anything else is possible as well.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:39 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 41):
And the fundamental difference is that the regulations you speak of all pertain to optional, voluntary businesses, industries or facets of life.

Regarding healthcare, will my taxes go up? Absolutely. Does that make me happy? Not in the least. But I can learn to live with it. The problem I absolutely refuse to learn to live with is the government making something mandatory for all citizens to purchase, because it leads to a slippery slope where anything else is possible as well.

The government already makes it mandatory for you to pay for medicare and to pay for social security. This really isn't any different. Regarding increased taxes, it's something that has to happen healthcare or no. You can't cut taxes and simultaneously start two wars and expect budget sustainability. The only difference with this tax increase is that it would provide a tangible benefit to all Americans.
 
AirStairs
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:50 pm

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 30):
If that is a danger, then what the hell is democracy all about?

Democracy is about governance by the consent of the people, it is not about majority rule. The defenders of California's Prop 8 routinely use majority rule to legitimize the measure, which is meaningless because the majority cannot (or at least should not) be able to allocate and dispose of rights on a whim. If the majority is in favor of resegregating schools and restaurants, does that make it a good or appropriate policy?

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
That's a fair point, but remember also that one of the talking points of those against the health care bill is that a majority of the people don't want it. By your logic, why should we place so much faith in that? It is a two-way street.

I don't think we should place much faith in that fact that many people are for or against it because many people for it have only their most myopic self-interest in mind and many people against it have no idea what is even in it.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 38):
Additionally, this claim assumes that all of the uninsured in this country are that way by choice. Do you honestly and truly believe that?

Of course I don't but my claim does not assume that at all. It assumes that the ideas of this country are grounded not in government, but the limitation of government. Insurance mandates present an unwarranted expansion of government.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 38):
The right to Life and the right to the Pursuit of Happiness are both intrinsically tied to good health.

The right to life does not mean the right to the Mayo Clinic.
 
NW747400
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:56 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:39 pm

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
They did pass healthcare, and we shall see shortly what the people think of it.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
Starting to look like the majority are happy with the reform. Maybe it's because they slowly learned about the good parts, even with the Republicans trying to make it look bad.

New CBS opinion poll does not seem to show that the majority are happy with it. Two in three Americans still want Republicans to fight it even after Obama signed it. Seems politically expedient for the Republicans to still try and stop it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001117-503544.html?tag=pop
 
pgh234
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:20 pm

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 10):
Quoting rwSEA (Reply 42):
The only difference with this tax increase is that it would provide a tangible benefit to all Americans

What tangible benefit will it provide to us Americans who work hard and already have great heath insurance?

I do not consider higher taxes, more bureaucracy, and sky rocketing debt and government instability to be a tangible benefit for this American.

As far as the GOP acting like idiots...they are politicians, they do not know how to behave otherwise. I do not see why your expectations of them are higher.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:30 pm

Quoting pgh234 (Reply 45):

What tangible benefit will it provide to us Americans who work hard and already have great heath insurance?

It will benefit you when you lose your job through no fault of your own, and have no other means to afford health insurance. This has happened to a LOT of people over the last couple of years. It isn't bad to have a safety net.
 
Continental
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:41 pm

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 43):
The right to life does not mean the right to the Mayo Clinic.

That's fine, but shouldn't it mean the right to see a local oncologist, gynecologist or any-ologist? You don't have to go to the Mayo Clinic to receive high quality health care.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:48 pm

Hazmat now at Rep. Anthony Wiener's office in DC due to a threatening letter concerning Health Care which contained white powder...
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
pgh234
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 12:48 pm

RE: GOP Shuts Down Senate Hearings!

Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:03 pm

Quoting rwSEA (Reply 46):

It will benefit you when you lose your job through no fault of your own, and have no other means to afford health insurance. This has happened to a LOT of people over the last couple of years. It isn't bad to have a safety net.

It is not your responsibility to pay for my health care! I may lose my job if a "big evil corporation" shuts down...but guess what...I can go out and get another one! When you actually produce something or have useful skills and knowledge, it is not difficult to get jobs!...that is how capitalism works! Sometimes you hit rough patches...but if you have enough common sense to make a savings account and you have family and friends to help you...you can get through anything. Hell, even the Amish understand this. If your current skill set causes you to leech of off society...then you need to go out and get new skill sets!

If you are my friend/family/neighbor and I desire to help you in rough times...I can do it a TON more efficiently and more quickly than some government bureaucracy. Net money is saved in the process because we didn't need to hire another 16,000 people on my tax dollar.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: art, NYCVIE and 30 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos