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AutothrustBlue
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:08 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 145):
Actually last season the Euroleague tried out a new system, which includes two additional officials, who´s only job is to watch the goal line. If successfull, this system might be introduced by FIFA.

Didn't FIFA say they would introduce the goal line officials for the 2012 Euros?

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 142):
Because the boundaries of a soccer field are so clearly defined, they could easily adapt the same replay technology used by the NFL to watch for goals, and possibly even offside calls. I know that Adidas has been studying the idea of using geolocation to track players and the ball itself by putting small RFID transmitters in the shoe and building a special ball with a big RFID transmitter in the middle of the ball, and with such tracking technology it'll be really hard to miss determining whether a goal was scored and we could easily track players to determine offside calls.

I remember of hearing such an idea. It would be great if introduced, but it's odd that despite the advent of technological advances, FIFA hasn't chosen to capitalize on them.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:08 pm

From the BBC:

Quote:
BBC Radio 5 live's Chris Waddle

"Germany play exactly like Bayern Munich, Schalke or Werder Bremen play every week - their international football is the same as their club game. The Premier League is 100 miles an hour, we can only play one way and it's poor. You can't win international trophies playing at 100 miles an hour."

Jan
 
okees
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:09 pm

England didn't deserve to get to the round of 16 to begin with. Their performance was horrible this entire tournament. I do not think that the disallowed goal would have been a game changer, especially since most of the players on the field didnt even make a fuss about it not counting, indicating they might have believed it bounced on the line, hence a "fair" no goal. That being said, refereeing has been absolutely horrible. I'm against video replays because it takes away from the game, but I like the 2 officials standing by the goal line watching it idea. I think it will work out nicely.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:10 pm

I can't wait to see what the English tabloids will say tomorrow. But for the moment, I will savour this, because we're close to our goal. Now we wait who will be our next football victim!

SCHLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!
 
okees
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:14 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 153):
Now we wait who will be our next football victim!

I'm predicting a Germany - Argentina. Hopefully the result is like the 2006 result.. Can't wait!
 
andz
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 149):
Other than watching Japan's Blue Samurai team I will boycott the World Cup from today on.

How noble. The world cup will go on without you watching, much to your horror I am sure.

England's disallowed goal was a travesty to be sure, but at the end of the day it didn't matter. Germany were the better team on the day and England progressed one match further than they deserved on their group form.

I cannot wait to see the tabloid headlines on Sky News tomorrow morning.
 
Derico
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting okees (Reply 154):
I can't wait to see what the English tabloids will say tomorrow. But for the moment, I will savour this, because we're close to our goal. Now we wait who will be our next football victim!

I would feel it's an empty win. Considering how often northern europeans complain about the diving southern europeans, Neuer knew it was a goal and should have not played the ball as if nothing happened. That was a cheat just like the divers so many complain about...
 
okees
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:23 pm

The game did not end 1-0 for Germany with which the disallowed goal would have made all the difference. How many times in sports do teams/players bounce back from bad calls? The fact of the matter is that England did not bounce back, England did not play well for more than the last 12-15 minutes of the first half, and England did not find the spirit to attack. Blaming others before blaming yourself is sad. A win is a win, it was not an empty win, Germany deserved it all with their disciplined formation, near perfect passes, and beautiful finishing. The English defense was caught sleeping on so many occasions which is probably why they lost. NOT because of the disallowed goal.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:24 pm

4-1, that's a proper humiliation for a team that was amongst the favourites! Congrats to Germany, well played!
 
AR385
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:27 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 142):
I know that Adidas has been studying the idea of using geolocation to track players and the ball itself by putting small RFID transmitters in the shoe and building a special ball with a big RFID transmitter in the middle of the ball, and with such tracking technology it'll be really hard to miss determining whether a goal was scored and we could easily track players to determine offside calls.

Yes. And then with the advent of artificial intelligence we can have robots playing the game. They won´t dive, and would never commit fouls, hand-fouls or complain. Much less go on strike when their teammates are sent home, or in this case turned off.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:28 pm

Quoting AutothrustBlue (Reply 150):
Didn't FIFA say they would introduce the goal line officials for the 2012 Euros?

While FIFA probably plays a role in the Eurocup, it it run by the UEFA and they are more competent or more willing to listen to criticism of football contreversies.

Personally I think soccer needs something that takes away the full authority from the referee. Not to the extent of the NFL which reviews damn near everything but there has to be a happy medium.

The pitch is way to big for one ref to cover everything and that needs to be changed.
 
okees
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:34 pm

The more rules the game has, the more boring it gets, and the more mistakes will be made. Keep it simple. The sport has been doing just fine for more than 100 years, there is no need to complicate things. All this technology nonsense will not pass.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 127):
A cheated final result. Like it or not England was cheated of one goal.

I wouldn't be proud to have won this one. It certainly wasn't fair and square.  


What are you on about? England needed to score at least 3 more times even if the goal was allowed, it didn't happen and that is that, 1 decision can't be blamed for the result.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:09 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 145):
Actually last season the Euroleague tried out a new system, which includes two additional officials, who´s only job is to watch the goal line. If successfull, this system might be introduced by FIFA.

Why bother inventing already invented?   Why not join the rest of the world in 21st century and use TV cameras? Simply introduce the option for refs to review uncertain goals on TV as it has been done for ages in ice hockey.
If there is enough time for the sissy players to practice their acting skills pretending injuries there should be enough time for this as well.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:12 pm

Quoting okees (Reply 157):
The game did not end 1-0 for Germany with which the disallowed goal would have made all the difference.

No, but if it had been 2-2 at half time, who knows what might have happened in the 2nd half?

The saddest thing about this has nothing to do with this particular game, England or Germany. It has to do with the fact that FIFA makes untold millions from the tounament, yet refuses to implement simple technology that could remove controversy and potential injustice from the game. If it's good enough for rugby, tennis and cricket (to name just a few), why hasn't it been done for the biggest single-sport event in the World?

What drives me mad is that this 'non-decision' could have happened in a 1-0 final and at the end of it, Septic Bladder would have been standing there grinning from ear to ear as he presents the trophy to the 'winners' and he couldn't care less as long as the cash registers are still working.

I would love to be proved wrong, but the man has no shame.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 160):
Personally I think soccer needs something that takes away the full authority from the referee.

He doesn't need to lose any authority. Allowing him to consult an off-pitch, 5th official would not take away any of his authority. In the case of this game, the next time the ball went dead, all he would have had to do is ask the TV ref, did the ball cross the line? Only the on-pitch ref can make decisions, but help him to make the correct ones. It works perfectly acceptably in rugby union. When a borderline onside decision results in a goal, consult the TV ref to confirm if the player was onside. If TV ref says player was clearly offside, then the free kick can be awarded. The flow of the game hasn't been interrupted because the scorers would still be half-way through their rehearsed celebration routine.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:14 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 118):
Thank you FIFA, for robbing us from a great game at half because of your antisocial, recluse, dictatorial, retrograde ways.

Uhh, FIFA didn't allow four goals, England did.
 
SpeedBirdA380
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:20 pm

I find it quite incredible (but not surprising) that most on here dont seem to care that England were cheated out of a perfectly legitimate goal....

Sure they were awful but to simply dismiss that goal as nothing "because Germany were better and scored 4 goals" is ridicolous.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:23 pm

Well deserved for playing like 11 marathon runners with no signs of being a team. It may be the premier league but as a National team...they play terribly.

See ya. BTW hope Mexico finally gets a dual revenge against Argentina and then Germany....
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 164):
The saddest thing about this has nothing to do with this particular game, England or Germany. It has to do with the fact that FIFA makes untold millions from the tounament, yet refuses to implement simple technology that could remove controversy and potential injustice from the game.

One would reasonably expect that the FIFA discovered the urgent need for an option to review disputable goals when the infamous goal scored by the "hand of god" during a WC finals took place almost quarter of a CENTURY ago!

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 162):
1 decision can't be blamed for the result.

You obviously never played a team sport.
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:28 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 166):
I find it quite incredible (but not surprising) that most on here dont seem to care that England were cheated out of a perfectly legitimate goal....

Sure they were awful but to simply dismiss that goal as nothing "because Germany were better and scored 4 goals" is ridicolous.

Yes, it was horrible that they were not awarded the goal that was clearly scored.

However, I do not think that the outcome of the game would have changed, and so, I think it's just time to move on. Germany just plain outplayed England. Game over.
 
SpeedBirdA380
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:36 pm

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 169):

Yes, it was horrible that they were not awarded the goal that was clearly scored.


  

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 169):
However, I do not think that the outcome of the game would have changed, and so

But thats not the point. It was a goal. The rules of the game state it was a goal. People can argue all day long it would not have mattered to the final result but England had a goal disallowed when it should of stood.

What many on here seem to be saying is "well,seeing as Germany played better then it really doe's not matter that a clear goal was disallowed. I find such talk hard to swallow and I very much doubt those people would be saying the same thing if it was their team it happened to.....

But yes you are right - its time to move on. England had a dreadful world cup apart from a reasonable performance against Solvenia.....

[Edited 2010-06-27 11:39:02]

[Edited 2010-06-27 11:43:26]
 
David L
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:39 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 145):
Actually last season the Euroleague tried out a new system, which includes two additional officials, who´s only job is to watch the goal line. If successfull, this system might be introduced by FIFA.

Yes. And they missed some incredibly obvious incidents. I wonder how the cost of paying those two officials compares to the cost of having an extra TV monitor for the 4th official.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 142):
I know that Adidas has been studying the idea of using geolocation to track players and the ball itself by putting small RFID transmitters in the shoe and building a special ball with a big RFID transmitter in the middle of the ball, and with such tracking technology it'll be really hard to miss determining whether a goal was scored and we could easily track players to determine offside calls.

That's what scares people like Blatter. We don't need to go to such lengths. The evidence in the stadium today was sufficient. Where a TV replay still leaves doubt, the referee is free to disallow a goal. Forget fouls, offside, throw-ins, goal-kicks and corners - doubts about those happen several times in every game. Balls clearly crossing the line but being disallowed happen relatively rarely and they make a huge difference to the game.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 146):
If the 1st half had ended 2-2, nobody knows what would have happened in the 2nd half.

Exactly. It's not good enough to simply add one England goal to the final score. The whole complexion of the game would have changed. It's not a Sunday League match, it's the World Cup. It's important.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 146):
England didn't deserve to win

Not the way they played having been denied a genuine equaliser then losing a third goal, no.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 146):
Yes, you can't even say you beat a good England team.

They were doing OK after a bad start and before they went 3:1 down. I don't know what the answer is but those players are normally very talented yet they don't fire on all cylinders for England at major finals. They could probably do with a good sports psychologist to convince them to be themselves and shake off the "fear".

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 151):
The Premier League is 100 miles an hour, we can only play one way and it's poor.

5 Live isn't the most dependent source and Chris Waddle is obviously upset. English clubs have been doing very well in Europe.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 160):
Personally I think soccer needs something that takes away the full authority from the referee

I don't particularly. I just think that the referee shouldn't be forced by FIFA to ignore evidence that hits him in the face... the same evidence that the many millions of us can all see very clearly in every major game.
 
Klaus
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:43 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 166):
I find it quite incredible (but not surprising) that most on here dont seem to care that England were cheated out of a perfectly legitimate goal....

Of course that goal should have counted – it was a clear misjudgment by the referee.

Still, do you really think the tired and incoherent english side could have won the game even then?

The german team played a fast, lively and rather precise game all in all. The english team were simply not up to the same level.

Quoting Derico (Reply 156):
Neuer knew it was a goal and should have not played the ball as if nothing happened. That was a cheat just like the divers so many complain about...

I don't think so. Neuer was facing the field and could not see where the ball actually hit the ground. It was a somewhat bizarre bounce anyway, with the ball hitting the post, touching down clearly behind the line, then bouncing up against the post again apparently due to heavy spin, after which Neuer caught it.

In the post-game interview Neuer said that he suspected that the ball could have been in but played the ball off as quickly as he could in any case. And in my view he was right in relying on the referee to make that decision.

You lose some, you win some – and this wasn't a final or even a decisive goal, unlike the (in)famous 1966 goal England got to count. This one was more obvious, but less important. Let's call it a carmic draw.
 
exFATboy
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:46 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 164):
The saddest thing about this has nothing to do with this particular game, England or Germany. It has to do with the fact that FIFA makes untold millions from the tounament, yet refuses to implement simple technology that could remove controversy and potential injustice from the game. If it's good enough for rugby, tennis and cricket (to name just a few), why hasn't it been done for the biggest single-sport event in the World?

This is one of those things I've never understood - why does it seem that international sports (FIFA, the Olympics, etc) have such a tendency to fall under the control of unaccountable cabals that run things for their own satisfaction rather than the good of the sports? IOC has gotten better in recent years, to be sure, but still...

The idea that the world's largest sporting event (or second largest, depending on how you measure such things) doesn't use even the simplest technology to prevent travesties like this

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 162):
What are you on about? England needed to score at least 3 more times even if the goal was allowed, it didn't happen and that is that, 1 decision can't be blamed for the result.

Ah, but that presumes the rest of the game went the same way. Entirely possible that both England and Germany would have come out of the locker room at halftime with different strategies if the score had been 2-2 rather than 2-1.

On the other hand, I can't help but think England would still have lost - and I was rooting for England. They couldn't match Germany's speed and had already come close to disaster at several other points in the first half

Citizens of Hope and Glory,
Mother of the Free...
England played like crap to-day,
I blame Wa-ayne Roo-ney...


(Okay, I don't really blame him, but his name rhymes with Free, he had a particularly bad World Cup, and he's just looks like such a chav I can't help it!   )

I don't know who to support now, all three of my teams - USA, England, Australia - are out! (In all fairness, I never had any hopes for the Socceroos. Sorry, Australia.) Since my support seems to be the Kiss of Death, maybe I should root for Germany now?   
 
andz
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:46 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 170):
The issue is it was a goal and was incorrectly disallowed and as such would have made the game 2:2.

Didn't you watch the second half? It would have been 4-2, which would have been quite an ironic score given the commentator's "shades of 1966" remark.
 
GDB
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:47 pm

Here we go, 'it woz the disallowed goal that lost it'.
Oh please, how many actual goals had England scored in the whole WC up to then?

No doubt Capello will get a roasting, but how many managers have England had in the past 4 years?

'The Golden Generation'. Golden Shower more like, as shown in 2006 too.

The far better team won, face it.

I do though feel sorry for those who shelled out 1000's of £'s to support this team who, as we have seen, treat these supporters with barely concealed contempt.
But what is £5000-8000 to them?

I'm just glad that I don't really care either way, though the media makes it hard to tune it out, for the England side though, to paraphrase the characters in Wayne's World . 'they are NOT worthy'.
 
Klaus
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:48 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 170):
But thats not the point. It was a goal. The rules of the game state it was a goal.

No. The rules of the game state that the referee makes a final decision right on the spot – right or wrong, it's final.

The idea is apparently to avoid lengthy interruptions and debates while the referees consult the video playback. But this particular goal is certainly another argument for a refinement of the overall refereeing setup, that much is true.
 
SpeedBirdA380
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:53 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 172):
Still, do you really think the tired and incoherent english side could have won the game even then?

stranger things have happened in football...lol

Quoting andz (Reply 174):

Didn't you watch the second half? It would have been 4-2, which would have been quite an ironic score given the commentator's "shades of 1966" remark.

Would it have made it 4:2...? A goal changes everything in football. Whats to say if the goal had been given England might not have gone and scored a third..? Sure they were TERRIBLE but they still got two past the German defence so who know's what might have happened if the goal had been allowed.

Anyway. England were terrible and deserve to be on a plane home.
 
Klaus
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:56 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 177):
stranger things have happened in football...lol

Not that many, though...!   
 
CPH-R
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:56 pm

Scandal #2 of the day coming your way, Tevez was very much offside on that goal.
 
racko
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:58 pm

This missed offside call makes Lampard's shot look like a difficult decision. Holy shit.
 
BR076
Topic Author
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:58 pm

Great , another offside goal by Argentine  
 
Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:01 pm

Pffff, what a refereeing in this World Cup, disgusting!! Such a clear offside......if they fail to see even this, poor Mexicans.
 
Rj111
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:11 pm

Congratulations to Germany. Over the 90 you were definitely been better.

I would like to see how the game would have panned out had that goal been allowed though. Very gutting to see something like that happen. Surely there is no excuse for these errors in football now. It took literally seconds on the replay to determine if that had gone in.

I guess this was payback for '66.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:18 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 149):
This cheating England of a goal gives me much less respect for the FIA and the competition itself.

Other than watching Japan's Blue Samurai team I will boycott the World Cup from today on.

Though I agree with your angst, unfortunately inaction solves nothing.  
Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 170):
The rules of the game state it was a goal.

Exactly. And while I see what you are trying to say, Klaus, saying the referee gets the final say, its not a rule. Its no different than the rules of this website not being enforced uniformly. In fact, how these forums are moderated is a LOT like FIFA oversight. THere are rules and there there is how they are applied.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 172):
carmic

You mean, kharmic?


Argentina, enough with the diving already. You will never excel in that arena.


First goal by ARgentina, it was clearly offsides.

But Higuian's 33' minute goal was an exercise in precision.


That was BEAUTIFUL. HE literally took that ball from the goalie's mouth and redirected it into the net. Brilliant control!!!

 
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scbriml
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:19 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 174):
Didn't you watch the second half? It would have been 4-2, which would have been quite an ironic score given the commentator's "shades of 1966" remark.

But major sport isn't that simple. 2-2 at half time is very different to 2-1 and a deflated team who've had a perfectly good goal not given.

Quoting GDB (Reply 175):
Here we go, 'it woz the disallowed goal that lost it'.

I haven't seen anyone who's said that. England didn't deserve to win, but football is the bigger loser here. Even bigger having just seen Tevez's clearly offside goal given against Mexico.

Two travesties today. Does Blatter have eyes?
 
David L
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 172):
Still, do you really think the tired and incoherent english side could have won the game even then?

They were not "tired and incoherent" until they went 3:1 down from a counter-attack after sustained pressing for "another" equaliser. Had the goal been allowed, England would have had the psychological advantage, rather then the feeling that it didn't matter what they did, and might have continued the pressure.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 176):
The idea is apparently to avoid lengthy interruptions and debates while the referees consult the video playback

Less time than it takes to make a substitution? There are up to six substitutions in every game. How often is there a dispute about whether or not the ball crossed the line? Even if you still think that's a "lengthy interruption and debate", what's to stop the 4th official watching the replay and letting the referee know if it's crossed the line as "bleedin' obviously" as that one did?

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 177):
Would it have made it 4:2...? A goal changes everything in football.

Absolutely right. It would have made it 2:2 at that point. Nothing else is known about what would have happened.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 179):
Scandal #2 of the day coming your way, Tevez was very much offside on that goal.

Again, Blatter's fault. The ref has no choice but to ignore the evidence that's in his face.
 
andz
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:24 pm

Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Reply 177):
Would it have made it 4:2...? A goal changes everything in football. Whats to say if the goal had been given England might not have gone and scored a third..? Sure they were TERRIBLE but they still got two past the German defence so who know's what might have happened if the goal had been allowed.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 185):
But major sport isn't that simple. 2-2 at half time is very different to 2-1 and a deflated team who've had a perfectly good goal not given.

I understand the reasoning, and there is tension in the Mexico-Argentina game about a controversial goal too. However, the fact remains, Germany put 4 past England and I really don't think that the disallowed goal made that much difference. It could deflate, or motivate.

If it had finished 2-1 however....
 
racko
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:24 pm

This was actually made worse by the fact that the replay was actually shown on the video screens in the stadium, so everybody knew what a terrible call this was.
 
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KPDX
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:41 pm

Wow, that was a stellar goal!

3-0.
 
Scorp82
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:42 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 189):
Wow, that was a stellar goal!

3-0.

It was!
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:44 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 176):
The idea is apparently to avoid lengthy interruptions and debates while the referees consult the video playback. But this particular goal is certainly another argument for a refinement of the overall refereeing setup, that much is true.

The desire to minimize delay in the game is understandable, but in this case it was pretty clear it was a goal and the refs just flat out blew it.

One possibility would be to allow each manager a single "challenge" each half, or use a system similar to the "Coach's Challenge" in American football, where a team is penalized for an unsuccessful challenge. In the NFL, you lose a timeout, since soccer doesn't have timeouts, perhaps you lose a substitution?

As for delay, just have the video from a camera over the goal projected on the stadium's screen. From "challenge" to decision, less than a minute. Of course, I'm only proposing goal challenges here, I do agree that challenges for fouls, etc, would bog the game down unacceptably.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 184):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 172):
carmic

You mean, kharmic?

You mean, karmic?
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:47 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 188):
This was actually made worse by the fact that the replay was actually shown on the video screens in the stadium, so everybody knew what a terrible call this was.

Yes, that's quite recent. However, the evidence was right there but FIFA's regulations mean that the referee must ignore it, even if it clearly shows he was wrong and he knows he was wrong. That's just ridiculous.

Quoting andz (Reply 187):
However, the fact remains, Germany put 4 past England and I really don't think that the disallowed goal made that much difference. It could deflate, or motivate.

But that's the point. No-one knows what would have happened. It's just not good enough to wait till the end of the game, add one goal to England's score and then say they wouldn't have won anyway when the situation is so easily avoidable.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:50 pm

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 191):
As for delay, just have the video from a camera over the goal projected on the stadium's screen. From "challenge" to decision, less than a minute. Of course, I'm only proposing goal challenges here, I do agree that challenges for fouls, etc, would bog the game down unacceptably.

Well, I noticed that during this WC the ref is already connected to somebody outside the field with a two way radio. It shouldn´t be a problem to have a fifth official screen video replays and advise the referee in case of controversial events (goals, offsides or even fouls).

Jan
 
Rj111
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:02 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:02 pm

A goal line camera is clearly a low hanging fruit.

Offsides can take a while to calculate even with replays.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:03 pm

Good goal by Hernandez, it is 3-1 now. Why is Argentina playing so defensive now? Looks like they have decided to not attack and hold on to the lead
 
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fca767
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:29 pm

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:04 pm

I watched from 60 mins in to the game...Amazing Ball Control from Germany... 
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:12 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 184):
And while I see what you are trying to say, Klaus, saying the referee gets the final say, its not a rule.

You mean the ref's decisions are merely non-binding suggestions? That would be new to me.
 

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 184):
You mean, kharmic?

I was sloppy, indeed...

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 191):
You mean, karmic?

...but so were you, apparently.
 

Quoting David L (Reply 186):
They were not "tired and incoherent" until they went 3:1 down from a counter-attack after sustained pressing for "another" equaliser. Had the goal been allowed, England would have had the psychological advantage, rather then the feeling that it didn't matter what they did, and might have continued the pressure.

I don't begrudge you your vastly over-optimistic estimation of the english team.   
 

Quoting David L (Reply 186):
Less time than it takes to make a substitution? There are up to six substitutions in every game. How often is there a dispute about whether or not the ball crossed the line? Even if you still think that's a "lengthy interruption and debate", what's to stop the 4th official watching the replay and letting the referee know if it's crossed the line as "bleedin' obviously" as that one did?

As I said: This goal is certainly a good reason to re-examine the refereeing setup. But there may be several different ways to improve things. Especially since the refs shouldn't have missed that one anyway.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 191):
The desire to minimize delay in the game is understandable, but in this case it was pretty clear it was a goal and the refs just flat out blew it.

No doubt. The main referee seemed to have his clear view blocked by some of the players at that monent, however. And his assistants apparently didn't pay enough attention.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 194):
A goal line camera is clearly a low hanging fruit.

Offsides can take a while to calculate even with replays.

This one was completely obvious with the current setup. The net corner cams are pretty neat as well.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #5

Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:23 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 197):
I don't begrudge you your vastly over-optimistic estimation of the english team.

Maybe we weren't watching the same game. Between England's "first" goal and Germany's third, England were applying some good pressure and weren't exactly "backs to the wall". Who's to say it wouldn't have continued if they hadn't been forced by circumstances to press ever harder and start to leave gaps at the back?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 197):
Especially since the refs shouldn't have missed that one anyway.

But they did and will continue to do so. I don't have an issue with it as the ref and linesman didn't have as good a view as we did as it happened, no matter what some think. But if Sepp Blatter is happy with forcing referees to ignore clear evidence like that then it's football that suffers. It's a farce.

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