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JJJ
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:28 am

Having a NED-ESP final would ensure there's a new world cup winner to join the exclusive club of Brazil, Italy, Germany, Uruguay, Argentina, England and France.

I really look forward to tonight's match, more than a semi it's going to be at least 3/4 of a final 

Germany is playing great football, but it will be the first team that will try to attack against Spain and thus leave some space for Spanish play to develop.
 
Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:36 am

Quoting iakobos (Reply 148):
Van Persie is between the shooter and the keeper, the fact that he does not touch the ball is irrelevant, make your conclusion.

The conclusion is that V Persie wasn't offside at all, he was equal with the defender, thus giving advantage to the attacker, Otherwise show me a clear picture him standing offside.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 150):
I really look forward to tonight's match, more than a semi it's going to be at least 3/4 of a final 

For Spain and Germany of course it's a final already. A very interesting match with some very strong teams. The winner will face the best team of this tournament: Holland.
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LTU932
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:45 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 150):
Having a NED-ESP final would ensure there's a new world cup winner to join the exclusive club of Brazil, Italy, Germany, Uruguay, Argentina, England and France.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but fact is that it will be Germany joining the 4 Star Club, which is currently composed of Brazil (5 stars) and Italy (4 stars).  
Quoting severnaya (Reply 151):
The conclusion is that V Persie wasn't offside at all, he was equal with the defender, thus giving advantage to the attacker, Otherwise show me a clear picture him standing offside.

I didn't see that scene (I presume you mean the one where van Persie jumped to let the ball in so it becomes a goal), but something tells me that if RvP was offside, it was what we call passives Abseits (passive offside), which means the goal was valid.

Trust me when I say that the passive offside rule is a very controversial. In Costa Rica for example, the local TV analysts declare everything that was an offside an offside, even if the player offside did not intervene in the play (which is a wrong interpretation of the offside rule). In Germany however, we make the distinction between active and passive offside, but many times it's very subjective to decide what is considered passive offside, because others can see it as active offside. Some people are even pleading that the passive offside rule gets abolished and replaced with a rule, were ANY and ALL offside positions are called offside, regardless whether it is a passive, or an active offside.
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JJJ
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:27 am

Quoting severnaya (Reply 151):

The conclusion is that V Persie wasn't offside at all, he was equal with the defender, thus giving advantage to the attacker, Otherwise show me a clear picture him standing offside
http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/645/golzi.jpg

His leg is clearly behind the defender. Close call, but offside nevertheless. He was blocking the line of sight of the keeper, thus played an active part.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 152):
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but fact is that it will be Germany joining the 4 Star Club, which is currently composed of Brazil (5 stars) and Italy (4 stars).

I just hope for a great match, for Spain getting to the semis is already uncharted territory. In any case giving Germany another beating after Vienna '08 won't hurt 
 
Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:44 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 153):
His leg is clearly behind the defender. Close call, but offside nevertheless.

This video-shot is 1 milli-second too late as the ball has released already from Sneijder's leg.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 153):
He was blocking the line of sight of the keeper,

No, there I disagree with, he wasn't blocking the sight of the keeper.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 153):
I just hope for a great match, for Spain getting to the semis is already uncharted territory.

   Spain in the semi-finals is already an never-seen-before achievement of them, so they're happy and with a win of Die Mannschaft a much more interesting Holland-Deutschland is waiting. Go Deutschland 
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:45 am

Quoting severnaya (Reply 151):
The winner will face the best team of this tournament: Holland.

The best team of this tournament will be the one who wins the match on Sunday. And something tells me it won't be Holland.
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:49 am

Quoting severnaya (Reply 154):
No, there I disagree with, he wasn't blocking the sight of the keeper.

There's no way to disagree. Van Persie was a) blocking the keeper sight, but more importantly b) confusing him and the defenders as to whether he would or would not touch the ball. The fact that he jumped at the last moment and did not actually touch the ball is irrelevant. He was an active participant in the play. He was offside, and it should have been flagged as such. However, it was an extremely close call. We have seen much bigger blunders.
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Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:26 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 156):
There's no way to disagree. Van Persie was a) blocking the keeper sight, but more importantly b) confusing him and the defenders

Well have a look, is he blocking the keeper's sight?

When Sneijder shoots: No!


When it's direction is changed by an Uruguayan player: No!
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:37 am

Quoting severnaya (Reply 157):
Well have a look, is he blocking the keeper's sight?

Err, is he in the trajectory of the ball? Yes. Does the ball pass right under his feet? Yes. Therefore, does he hides the trajectory of the ball at any point in time? Oh yes!
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:51 am

Quoting severnaya (Reply 154):
This video-shot is 1 milli-second too late as the ball has released already from Sneijder's leg.

come on ...

Quoting severnaya (Reply 154):
No, there I disagree with, he wasn't blocking the sight of the keeper.

of course he is. He is standing exactly where the ball is going at. In the replay it even looks as if he tried to stop the ball and fails to control it.
No one is blaming the ref as it was a close call, but let's admit things that seemed clear during the live broadcast and that the replays proved the offside existed. Then you can interpret the rules as you wish, but at the end of the day, it's offside.
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Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:54 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 158):
Err, is he in the trajectory of the ball?

Not when Sneijder shoots the ball, and that determines the case of offside.

Quote:
Since offside is judged at the time the ball is touched or played by a team-mate, not when the player receives the ball, it is possible for a player to receive the ball significantly past the second-to-last defender, or even the last defender (typically the goalkeeper).

Yes, perhaps Van Persie is in the trajectory of the ball when one of the Uruguayans touches the ball, but that is irrelevant per above quote.
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Andreas
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:16 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 153):
He was blocking the line of sight of the keeper, thus played an active part.

Did anybody listen to what Oliver Kahn said last night....he said that it was active offside...the colour of the Dutch jersey alone is more than enough to greatly distract the goalies attention      
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draigonair
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:30 am

wohooo go Holland  lets see if it will be either germany or spain in the Finals :D
cheers
 
Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:47 am

Quoting DRAIGONAIR (Reply 162):
either germany or spain


Today in Bild


 
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:08 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 160):
when Sneijder shoots the ball, and that determines the case of offside.

Exactly, and Van Persie was offside when Sneijder shot the ball. The only question is if he was actively involved in the play or not. It is pretty clear that he was: he was threatening to touch the ball, hence confusing a defender and the keeper, and he hid the ball from the keeper's eyes during part of the trajectory.

It's actually pretty simple.
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:33 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 163):
Today in Bild

  
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:35 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 164):
Exactly, and Van Persie was offside when Sneijder shot the ball. The only question is if he was actively involved in the play or not. It is pretty clear that he was: he was threatening to touch the ball, hence confusing a defender and the keeper, and he hid the ball from the keeper's eyes during part of the trajectory.

It's actually pretty simple.

could not have said it better myself
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Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:46 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 164):
Exactly, and Van Persie was offside when Sneijder shot the ball. The only question is if he was actively involved in the play or not.

  

I'd love to read/hear/watch some expert (aka Cruyff, Netzer etc) opinion.
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:51 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 167):
I'd love to read/hear/watch some expert (aka Cruyff, Netzer etc) opinion.

Oh, do you think I'm less of an expert than Cruyff or Netzer??  
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:00 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 167):
I'd love to read/hear/watch some expert (aka Cruyff, Netzer etc) opinion

when Cruyff played it would have been an offside 100% since there was no interpretation of the rule back then. In other words, it didn't matter if the trajectory of the ball would confuse the gk, etc., it was offside if any attacker was behind the last defender, even if not close to the action.
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Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:01 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 169):
when Cruyff played it would have been

I was actually talking about nowadays, not about the player-Cruyff era, sorry for not making myself clear.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 168):
Oh, do you think I'm less of an expert than Cruyff or Netzer??

Clearly, mostly due to your profile flag!   

[Edited 2010-07-07 06:04:15]
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UALWN
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:39 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 170):
Clearly, mostly due to your profile flag!

Don't be fooled by it. I was born Andorran, but I also carry a US and, most relevant for this discussion, a Spanish passport. I'm a "soci" of FC Barcelona, and a big Cruyff fan.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:40 pm

Quoting severnaya (Reply 170):
I was actually talking about nowadays, not about the player-Cruyff era, sorry for not making myself clear.

I know, no worries  

I was just giving a bit of info for the new football fans that might have not known how the rule was in Cruyff's time. Btw, Jihann was one of the greatest players, and also a very successful coach, but he is one of those legends that should keep their mouth shut 
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Beta
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:14 pm

GO SPAIN! GO!

Torres finally is going to score a goal today! Villa will continue his 1 goal/game streak! And some one else will add a final goal. Klose will score a consolation goal for Germany to make it:

Spain 3 v Germany 1

Guarantee!
 
IBERIA747
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:01 pm

Quoting Beta (Reply 173):
And some one else will add a final goal.

How about Pedro? He hasn't scored in this world championship so far, and he always scores in every tournament he's in.  

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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:13 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 174):
How about Pedro? He hasn't scored in this world championship so far, and he always scores in every tournament he's in.

I take it you are from BCN? Do the people in cataluña for the most part support Spain in the WC? I remember in the 92 olympics the Nou Camp being very supportive of Spain, but some things have changed since then.

gracias!
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lxa333
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:14 pm

ESPAÑA 2- GERMANY 1....past games were illusions, argentine defense=joke and England have that world cup factor. Spain will deliver today!
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:19 pm

everyone is so sure Spain will win, but what has Spain done until now to support that? Lost to the Swiss for starters, but they also played average the rest of the tounament. They were not superior to Paraguay (deserved to pass, but barely), so I wonder why is Spain so favourite for today ...
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IBERIA747
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:34 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 175):
I take it you are from BCN?

Originally from Zaragoza but I live in Madrid. However, everyone in my family supports Barça....myself included, of course.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 175):
Do the people in cataluña for the most part support Spain in the WC?

Well there are two important factors here.
1.- There are hundreds of thousands (maybe more) of people living in Cataluña who are not of catalan origin.
2.- There is a huge percentage of the "100% Catalan" population who are not "anti-Spain" but remain quiet most of the time. Same thing happening in the Basque region.

After all, we are all part of the same country and it's always good to see supporters in every corner of España.

VAMOOOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
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IBERIA747
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:42 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 177):
everyone is so sure Spain will win

Not in this forum mate. If you look at the replies here I think there are just 4 or 5 people supporting Spain.
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There may be someone else, and out of those 5 I have pointed out 3 happen to be from Spain. I guess that is not "everyone".

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 177):
I wonder why is Spain so favourite for today ...

I don't think Spain is favourite for tonight's match, but I think that not being the favourite could be good for our team.

[Edited 2010-07-07 09:46:01]
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SKY1
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:51 pm

Today in the LH's desk at Madrid-Barajas Airport there are several flags. Could anyone guess what's the flag?  

I wonder if the IB desk at FRA, MUC or TXL is decorated with the black, red and dark yellow colors.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:53 pm

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 178):
Originally from Zaragoza but I live in Madrid. However, everyone in my family supports Barça....myself included, of course.

supporting Barca in Madrid ... that's not easy!! I remember once walking around BCN with my RM shirt .. let's say I wasn't too popular 

I lived nearly half my life in MAD and of course I'm a RM fan and former socio  
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 178):
Well there are two important factors here.
1.- There are hundreds of thousands (maybe more) of people living in Cataluña who are not of catalan origin.
2.- There is a huge percentage of the "100% Catalan" population who are not "anti-Spain" but remain quiet most of the time. Same thing happening in the Basque region.

thanks. Isn't the Federation trying to make a friendly match in Bilbao for the near future?

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 178):
After all, we are all part of the same country and it's always good to see supporters in every corner of España.

Too many people don't see it that way unfortunately  

funny thing is those that believe in the independence of Cataluña say the Catalan football teams should compete in the Spanish league .. how is that for irony?

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 179):
Not in this forum mate. If you look at the replies here I think there are just 4 or 5 people supporting Spain.

one thing is support, but even some of the betting agencies have Spain as favourite. That's where I don't agree. Honestly it's 50-50 for tonight. Spain has a strong team that still has not performed as expected, while Germany is a good team that has scored most goals than anyone else, and has the revenge of two years ago in their head ... what a match this is going to be!
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:16 pm

The octopus said Spain. How could anyone dare to contradict an octopus?   
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JJJ
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:54 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 177):
so I wonder why is Spain so favourite for today ...

They're not. Spain has struggled (like always) against locked-up opponents while Germany has looked terrific all the way (Serbia excepted).

However there are signs that this _could_ be the breakthrough match for Spain: namely that Germany will not just park the bus and hope for a counter-attack, this will free spaces that Spain need for the kind of attacking football they're known for.

Also, VdB has finally seen that Torres is just not fit and will start Pedro instead. Thats AWESOME news for Spain, as they will finally play with 11. I myself would have preferred Llorente, but a Pedro-Villa-Iniesta is still a fearsome attacking trident except that they can forget about high crosses.

Well, I'm off for a few beers, see you later!
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:00 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 183):
They're not. Spain has struggled (like always) against locked-up opponents while Germany has looked terrific all the way (Serbia excepted).

we agree on that, that's why I was surprised to see some of the famous online betting places giving Spain as favorites by a small margin.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 183):
Also, VdB has finally seen that Torres is just not fit and will start Pedro instead. Thats AWESOME news for Spain, as they will finally play with 11. I myself would have preferred Llorente,

Lloerente can come in for the last 20 minutes and be the "revulsivo" if necessary!
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:29 pm

None of the Spanish players sung their National Anthem, while most of the German team did.
One point for Germany already...

Well, we will find out soon enough if the Octopus is right!  Wow!
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Sabena332
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 185):
None of the Spanish players sung their National Anthem

This is because the Spanish national anthem doesn't have a text!

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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:38 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 186):
This is because the Spanish national anthem doesn't have a text!

Oh I never knew this. Thank you!

Allright, the game is on and the vuvuzelas are all over the stadium!
May the best one win!
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NIKV69
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:13 pm

All Spain do far, Germany looks too cautious.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:18 pm

I watched the whole first half with a neutral eye, I did not find this exciting at all.
I have seen much better during the competition, with so-called "small" teams.
I hope the second half will be better, or maybe penalties again.  
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NIKV69
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:24 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 189):
I did not find this exciting at all.

Two European teams, to be expected.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 189):
I have seen much better during the competition, with so-called "small" teams.
I hope the second half will be better, or maybe penalties again.

You will when you get African and South American teams playing. As for the end of this game hard to say at this point. Spain is going to break through soon I think.
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Severnaya
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:32 pm

The guy walking on the field with a vuvuzela was the most interesting part of the first half.....
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:34 pm

I don't know if it is just me but i find these days European football rather brutal. I don't see the "chutzpah".

The smaller teams were artists, improvising sort of. They had action.

Let's see how the second half goes and most of all, let's see if Octopus is right!  
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petertenthije
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:59 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 192):
Let's see how the second half goes and most of all, let's see if Octopus is right!

Spain just scored! Time to get out the recipe book?
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:00 pm

GGOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Just a matter of time Spain has taken it to Germany all game and a great header
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:01 pm

The octopus has scored a goal..............

  
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NIKV69
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RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:12 pm

Spain couldn't convert a 2 player breakaway? Del Pierro did! May mean something
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
Derico
Posts: 4472
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:12 pm

Germans diving all over the place. 3 in 5 minutes...
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
SpeedBirdA380
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:57 pm

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 196):
Spain couldn't convert a 2 player breakaway? Del Pierro did! May mean something

If Spain don't win this game they have no-one to blame but themselves...they have totally outplayed Germany.

Germany are certainly playing better though after the goal.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14262
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Official 2010 Fifa World Cup Thread #7

Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:20 pm

ESPANA! ESPANA! ESPANA!

WOW! I expected more from Germany!
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.

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