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Aaron747
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Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:15 am

So once again the cadre of professional anarchists hell-bent on causing disruption every time there's an issue in the Bay Area rears its ugly head. The trial of the BART cop who was tried for murder in the death of a young man last year was billed to be a test of racial tensions if the verdict went the wrong way but it didn't matter in the end because these hooligans always take advantage of the situation. We need to find out WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE and stop them from pursuing these activities (look no further than your local chapter of A.N.S.W.E.R. and other such malcontent organizations).

Despite pleas from family members of the man who was killed, this stuff went on anyway tonight. You can bet the local black community heeded their words, but these idiot anarchists weren't listening.

"Please, let's keep peace," grandfather Oscar Grant, 65, said on a loudspeaker at the intersection of 14th Street and Broadway. "I know what went on down there was wrong. Please don't tear up the Bay Area.

"Don't dishonor my grandson's death by tearing up Oakland. I know the verdict was wrong."


But is that what these morons in black jeans and hoodies did, no way:

JJ Fryzel, an Oakland artist who just moved into a gallery called Show And Tell Art on Thursday, said a group of looters threw rocks through her window.

"They were throwing rocks at me," Fryzel said. "I was standing right there. I said, 'Oh s-, spare me.' ... They have no idea what they are doing. No clue."


Of course these people know what they are doing - they are anti-capitalist whiners who just take delight in the opportunity to use other issues as an excuse to wage destruction on any kind of business. They don't give a damn about the young black man who lost his life in this case.

Officials said the main instigators appeared to be organized "anarchist" agitators wearing black clothing and hoods. Many of the most aggressive demonstrators smashing the windows of banks and shops were white.

I'd like to see enhanced sentences for these 20-40 somethings who see fit to prey on their neighbors and businesses within their own community. It's high time for this crap to stop!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../a/2010/07/08/BAFL1EBKII.DTL&tsp=1
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:01 am

What irks me is why the trial was moved to Los Angeles.
This is the same corrupt system that let off the 4 officers that beat Rodney King, O.J. Simpson, Soon Ja Du and plenty other cases of injustice.
It should have stayed in Alameda county.
The media keeps emphasizing the race issue too. The bottom line is that an unarmed man was murdered by a police in uniform. This scumbag officer should serve a life sentence.

As for the protesters, they should respect the wishes of Mr. Grant's family.
 
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seb146
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:41 pm

I would like to point out that people were actually peaceably assembled for the afternoon and early evening. There were groups of people carrying banners and chanting early on. I suspect these were locals who were there to, as the family said, honor Oscar Grant and honor the city of Oakland. I agree the violence came probably by hooligans who had nothing to do with the verdict but just wanted to break stuff. Just like WTO in Seattle.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
The media keeps emphasizing the race issue too. The bottom line is that an unarmed man was murdered by a police in uniform.

I noticed that, too. When a "minority" officer (read: Latino, Black, Asian) kills a white suspect, the media says "officer involved shooting.... the officer is on paid leave." But, when a White officer kills a "minority" suspect, the media says "A White officer killed a Black/Latino/Asian suspect.... the officer may face charges."

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
This scumbag officer should serve a life sentence.

I never thought he seemed remorseful over the shooting. No matter what the verdict, his life is ruined anyway. He will have to live with "oh, you are the transit cop who shot that unarmed kid" his whole life. He will be lucky to get a part time job flipping burgers.

[Edited 2010-07-09 08:44:37]
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:50 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):
He will be lucky to get a part time job flipping burgers.

Or get a job at Fox news.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
(look no further than your local chapter of A.N.S.W.E.R.

I did some research on this group and they are a terrorist sympathizing organization.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:57 pm

I think the jury decision was spot on.

This incident was in no way was murder, which requires pre-medidated intent to kill. This incident was nothing but a tragic accident by a young police officer in the heat of the moment. There were even two witness that testified the officer mentioned his intent to taser the man. He simply reached for the wrong weapon.

Off course it should not have happened, but nevertheless, the verdict still sends a loud message to police that they can be held criminally liable for incidents.
Law enforcement has learned from this incident, with many California agencies having revised training and now require a taser to he holstered and used by the weak hand only to avoid such inadvertent accidents.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:35 pm

Now Holder is getting the DOJ involved. Is this an attempt to draw attention from his misstep with Arizona Immigration lawsuit and the fumbled involvement with the Black Panther case? With a resume like Holder's, one would think he'd be a little more of a forward thinker; unless he's another puppet. Reminds me of another of a AG; Asscroft.  article
 
LH459
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:18 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
I'd like to see enhanced sentences for these 20-40 somethings who see fit to prey on their neighbors and businesses within their own community. It's high time for this crap to stop!

      One comment, though: according to a statement released by the OPD this morning, many of the arrested anarchists are not even FROM the Bay Area! These people just travel around causing trouble, and it needs to stop now! Clearly they are organized and work across state lines, so I think it's time for the Feds to get involved (if they aren't already).

Quoting seb146 (Reply 3):
I agree the violence came probably by hooligans who had nothing to do with the verdict but just wanted to break stuff. Just like WTO in Seattle.

   A crowd of these people smashed the windows of the Whole Foods market which is at the bottom of the hill I live on. I saw the composition of the crowd while driving home from a friend's place: There was a cadre of masked anarchists in black, egging on a group of teenagers in standard XXL white t-shirt and jeans ghetto attire.
 
chrisair
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:46 pm

Don't forget what Grant's uncle said during the presser in LA.

When I heard what he said live on KCBS yesterday, I knew all hell would break loose in Oakland. When asked about violence he said "people will express themselves in ways they feel appropriate."
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:11 pm

What a terrible situation .... horrible.

Why would anyone even want to be a cop in Oakland or LA .... they must be nuts. They need to think about what it would be like without cops.... the city would burn down in 3 days.

The officer deserves punishment ... the sentence IMO is fair .... but the riots are un called for and serve no purpose except to polarize us further .
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:34 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):

The officer deserves punishment ... the sentence IMO is fair .... but the riots are un called for and serve no purpose except to polarize us further .

The riots are fueled by racial tension, yes, but the property damage is being done by these A.N.S.W.E.R. anarchists. I don't know how many times these people have been arrested before, but next time they need to throw away the key. Those people were very active on campus when I was going to college and were constantly trying to recruit people and incite various forms of anti-authority mayhem. They are positively useless!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
So once again the cadre of professional anarchists hell-bent on causing disruption every time there's an issue in the Bay Area rears its ugly head.

Um... try a bunch of angry/bored young men. "Dude, it's a riot! Let's go f*uck with the cops!"

And so I disagree, Aaron, that they are anti-capitalist or anarchist or any other sort of "-ist." They may CLAIM to be, but what they really are is a bunch of violent hoodlums who are trying to justify their looting and rioting by an "-ism."
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:37 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
And so I disagree, Aaron, that they are anti-capitalist or anarchist or any other sort of "-ist." They may CLAIM to be, but what they really are is a bunch of violent hoodlums who are trying to justify their looting and rioting by an "-ism."

Just peruse this site a bit and you will find evidence of exactly what you described above:

http://answersf.org/

These people indeed want to f*ck with cops and authority, but they take themselves seriously and are indeed organized.
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:03 am

Gained a new Hero today .,.. I just heard Oscar Grant's father call for peace and honor for the people of Oakland. A real patriot and a sensible man.

He disagreed with the verdict .... and has lost a son , but he saw past the moment and stood for justice.
 
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johnboy
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:13 am

I was just amazed at the television coverage......all afternoon and evening there was live coverage of reporters breathlessly reporting on.......nothing.
You could almost hear the disappointment in every voice.

I guess they got their wish later in the evening.
 
Zentraedi
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:47 am

While I don't agree with the anarchists' behavior, I'm more inclined to be against the cops for the simple reason that a bunch of them went around, confiscating cell phones and actually deleting video evidence of the incident. That sort of thing scares me much more than just 1 racially motivated murder.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:56 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 9):
The riots are fueled by racial tension, yes, but the property damage is being done by these A.N.S.W.E.R. anarchists.
Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 14):
While I don't agree with the anarchists' behavio

ANSWER is not an anarchist organization. ANSWER characterizes itself as anti-imperialist, and its steering committee consists of Maoists, communists, socialists, civil rights advocates, and progressives. Many of ANSWER's leaders were members of Workers World Party at the time of ANSWER's founding, and are current members of the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

http://www.zcommunications.org/ten-q...tiwar-organizing-by-michael-albert

So they are the exact opposite of anarchists.
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:26 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):
the sentence IMO is fair

2 years?
You've got to be kidding. There are people serving longer sentences for much less serious of crimes.
When ever there is injustices like this, people are going to be pissed off and yes there will be civil unrest.
I am no fan of ANSWER but this verdict gave them a good excuse to riot.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:21 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 8):

Why would anyone even want to be a cop in Oakland or LA .... they must be nuts. They need to think about what it would be like without cops.... the city would burn down in 3 days.

Lies! More like 3 hours...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):

And so I disagree, Aaron, that they are anti-capitalist or anarchist or any other sort of "-ist." They may CLAIM to be, but what they really are is a bunch of violent hoodlums who are trying to justify their looting and rioting by an "-ism.

Correct. Some people will use any pretense to start trouble.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 12):

He disagreed with the verdict .... and has lost a son , but he saw past the moment and stood for justice.

Amazing if you ask me. I know I wouldn't have anything like that kind of clarity in his shoes.
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
You've got to be kidding



Super ... do you believe that the officer knowingly pulled his .40 and shot a kid in the back at point blank. ?

Sorry I don't ... he made a terrible horrible error and may even deserve more years in prison but I don't believe he shot him on purpose. This is not Somalia or Kabul ....
 
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seb146
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:34 pm

Quoting johnboy (Reply 13):
I was just amazed at the television coverage......all afternoon and evening there was live coverage of reporters breathlessly reporting on.......nothing.
You could almost hear the disappointment in every voice.

It was almost as if the media wanted a riot. It was almost as if the media played up the race card just to get people to get out.

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 14):
I'm more inclined to be against the cops for the simple reason that a bunch of them went around, confiscating cell phones and actually deleting video evidence of the incident. That sort of thing scares me much more than just 1 racially motivated murder.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
2 years?
You've got to be kidding. There are people serving longer sentences for much less serious of crimes.

See... I don't believe the shooting was racial. I do believe it was an accident. Possibly, in the heat of the moment, the officer drew his gun instead of his Tazer. His fellow officers might have even influenced his decision to draw a weapon. But, I do not believe race had anything to do with it.

Superfly is right: Drunk drivers who kill recieve more time. A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone. They made a horrible and stupid mistake. 2 years for a decision that could have been corrected in 2 seconds (check weapon before pulling trigger)? That seems rather generous.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:40 pm

We have had too many of these white cop kills black man under suspect conditions all over the USA with subsequent violent reactions by some in the Black communities to the death and what seems to be weak justice penatlies as to the cop. Still, that should NOT be an excuse by some Black persons to go into violent acts against persons and private property.
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:05 pm

Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 20):
We have had too many of these white cop kills black man under suspect conditions all over the USA with subsequent violent reactions by some in the Black communities to the death and what seems to be weak justice penatlies as to the cop.



So we have a few options here ...

1. Send every white cop involved in a shooting of a black person to prison for life. Just make it a policy ..if you shoot a black person your guilty and will be gone.

2. Instruct the officers to just stay out of trouble ... if they see a violent incident happening ...just get in the car and let it happen.

3. Take all white police officers out of the inner cities ..... keep them from being put in the position. Let the locals police themselves or have special black police forces in high minority areas.

4. Take guns away from cops and issue only non lethal tools.


I disagree with your statement that we have far too many of these incidents ... how many time every single day do white cops encounter black people .... hundreds of times a day I would guess. Very rare are these incidents ...very rare in comparison ... but it keeps the poor black victim crowd happy.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone.



But a drunk driver was being irresponsible and had to think of the danger of there action prior to driving off. Your implication is that the officer thought about his action before and overrode his judgement to shoot the kid .. That defence implies the officer thought .... " I am going to shoot him ...no I better not .... ya what the heck ".... I do not believe that.
 
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seb146
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:24 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
But a drunk driver was being irresponsible and had to think of the danger of there action prior to driving off.

Have you ever been drunk? What danger do you think of when setting off to do something when you are drunk. I have staggerd home in the middle of the night. That is very dangerous, but when I was drunk, it is not the immediate danger they see, but the goal. Luckily, when I have "walked" home after drinking, I made it safely. But, some do not because they think "Oh, I can make it across the street/freeway without getting hit. My house is just a few feet away." The same line of thinking, I would suspect, goes on with drunk drivers. They don't think of the danger, just that they are very close to where they need to be. It is still stupid and irresponsible and should carry a stiff penalty. However, I do not believe for a second Johannes Meserle (sp) had the intention of shooting anyone in the back. I do not believe for a secod that he went to work that day thinking "today would be a good day to shoot someone."
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:00 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
I disagree with your statement that we have far too many of these incidents ... how many time every single day do white cops encounter black people .... hundreds of times a day I would guess. Very rare are these incidents ...very rare in comparison ... but it keeps the poor black victim crowd happy.

A cursory review of the YouTube videos depicting this incident reveal something else very important - if there are any young people around, there is nobody around to defend the cops and the atmosphere becomes highly toxic. There was a multiracial young crowd on the BART train that witnessed the incident for several minutes, and based on what I saw in the videos, it was nonstop berating and verbal abuse of the cops who were on the platform trying to deal with several arrests. Add alcohol into the mix at 2 am on New Year's Eve and it's a very ugly picture.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:09 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
Drunk drivers who kill recieve more time. A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone. They made a horrible and stupid mistake.

Putting your key in the ignition and driving away is clear intent, not a mistake.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:34 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
Superfly is right: Drunk drivers who kill recieve more time. A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone. They made a horrible and stupid mistake. 2 years for a decision that could have been corrected in 2 seconds (check weapon before pulling trigger)? That seems rather generous.

To err is human, as the saying goes. We can all judge, mistakes happen and will continue to happen. If the police were 100% black, it would still happen. The hatred is for Authority. That is the enemy, first and foremost. You are bothering me while I am trying to have a good time, drinking stealing, rapeing, robbing banks, assaulting people. It does not matter what color the Policeman or woman is, nor the color of the lawbreakers. Who are you to bother me? Sad and tragic things happen because of that reasoning. The press does not help at all.
 
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seb146
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:05 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
Drunk drivers who kill recieve more time. A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone. They made a horrible and stupid mistake.

Putting your key in the ignition and driving away is clear intent, not a mistake.

Not intent to murder. No one driving drunk is not thinking "Gee, I would really love to mow down a few people." No. The intent of the drunk driver is to get home. It is a stupid way to do it. They should be punished heavily. But, when an officer has two weapons, both shaped similar, how long does it take to look and see which weapon they have in their hand?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25):
If the police were 100% black, it would still happen. The hatred is for Authority. That is the enemy, first and foremost.

But, if a police force were 100% black and one of those officers shot a black suspect, nothing much happens to the officer. No jail time, no court hearing. But, because police forces are made up of the community, when a white officer shoots a black suspect, there is a court hearing and protests. This is equality in 21st Century America.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:32 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
Not intent to murder. No one driving drunk is not thinking "Gee, I would really love to mow down a few people." No. The intent of the drunk driver is to get home. It is a stupid way to do it. They should be punished heavily.

In legal terms, that does not matter.

When you put the key in and drive off, you take full responsibility for the operation of that vehicle and results there off.
One can be charged with vehicular homicide or other crimes when not even drunk, being drunk just makes it worse as your action prior to the accident are even more reckless.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
But, when an officer has two weapons, both shaped similar, how long does it take to look and see which weapon they have in their hand?

A heat of the moment incident which you describe how easy it is to confuse.

Its actually good the Judge allowed lesser charges to be considered over the objection of the prosecution as other otherwise a Not Guilty verdict would have come in, as no one in their right mind could believe officer Mehserle was intent on murder that day.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
This incident was in no way was murder, which requires pre-medidated intent to kill.

That is the definition of first degree murder, weather or not pre-meditation was a factor is a major legal issue.

One convicted of killing from rage would get a 2nd and possibly a 3rd degree sentence.

I do agree that the charge was probably right however the cop could have been charged with 3rd degree murder (if it could be proved that the killing was an unintended consequence) but probably not 2nd degree which is what Johannes Mehserle was being charged with.
 
BN747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Conclud

Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:04 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
I disagree with your statement that we have far too many of these incidents ... how many time every single day do white cops encounter black people .... hundreds of times a day I would guess. Very rare are these incidents ...very rare in comparison ... but it keeps the poor black victim crowd happ

Your perspective as expected .. is always so one-sided. But I'll say this much, there are now a lot of minority cops patroling white and non-minority areas. After, saaayyy 50+ years of black cops 'mistakenly' shooting/killing unarmed 'white teens' accidents..50+ years worth and no less... then you come back and tell us "there hasn't been that many of these incidents."

If your mind is capable....imagine standing in someone else's shoes who has seen 'too much, too many years.. of the white cops killing a black teen' paradigm.


BN747

[Edited 2010-07-11 11:06:46]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:30 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):

So they are the exact opposite of anarchists.

Believe it or not, communism is a form of anarchism in its pure form. The ultimate goal of communism was that the idea of personal property would disappear, everyone would get along and work for the good of the commune, and there would be no need for a government.

Like many things, it was hijacked by people who had other plans...
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:31 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
If your mind is capable....imagine standing in someone else's shoes who has seen 'too much, too many years.. of the white cops killing a black teen' paradigm.



I cant ...I don't see them as black teenagers I see them as people .... I don't see it as white cop versus black youth issue like you. You are the one who is not capable of thinking outside those lines .

My mind is very capable ..... how many ? Give me a number of incidents that you know of where a white officer shot a black kid .... ?? Just a number even a estimate ......

The day that white cops just start blasting black people randomly ..... or a cop says die negro as he pulls the trigger then your claim will be valid. This situation is far from either of those .... and you know it. Using it to excuse these little thugs is all you are trying to do .... like Aaron said it was a highly volatile situation and a very sad outcome . But the truth is Mr. Grant and his friends bare responsibility .... he did not deserve to die but he should have thought about that before doing the deed.
 
BN747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:09 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
I cant ...I don't see them as black teenagers I see them as people .... I don't see it as white cop versus black youth issue like you. You are the one who is not capable of thinking outside those lines

Ahh ye ol 'I'm Color Blind' mindest. Just like the 'I don't see disabled people...to me they're just people' the biggest load of crap ever. It's nice in thought as is it's intention, unfortunately, reality is people do judge and prejudge..it's woven into our social fabric - in ever nation. Based on your pervious disclosures about race, you're about as close to color-blindness as New York is to Pluto. If everyone lived in your world, everything would be perfect and if everyone lived in my world..everything would be perfect - except in truth....it really wouldn't! Because, human societies, social interactions are far far more complicated than your "'I'm Color Blind" mentality. They are deeply rooted into the very histories that brought them together in the 1st place. An 'I'm color-blind' person means well but he's dismissing all the cultural diversity that person of color brings and it's associations within the community he/she lives. One may as well not venture beyond a 'hello/goodbye' with such a person because 'the blinders' he chooses to wear will surely set him up to make a fool of himself instantly and unknowingly. Reality is bitch, but most us digest it and take it for what it is...and not take the easy way out by pretending 'it isn't there'...esp. when the person on the 'socially short-end of the stick' has seen it all his life and knows better.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
My mind is very capable ..... how many ? Give me a number of incidents that you know of where a white officer shot a black kid .... ?? Just a number even a estimate ..

History can be quite useful if you know it...

..so can google..

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
The day that white cops just start blasting black people randomly ..... or a cop says die negro as he pulls the trigger then your claim will be valid.

I you can stomach it, obtain the book 'White Law, Black Resistance'... a factual hsitoric account of what you claim doesn't/never existed -- althought something tells me you can't possibly be up for that.


BN747
 
AGM100
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:37 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 32):
I you can stomach it, obtain the book 'White Law, Black Resistance'... a factual historic account of what you claim doesn't/never existed -- althought something tells me you can't possibly be up for that.



Ok ... I will . I know you have trouble believing it ...but I am post racial . I don't care what color you are ...if you are a good citizen and live a positive life , raise your family .... I dont give flip what race you are. I simply hate stupid ass people like Oscar Grant who confront the police and cause violence in our streets ... don't care what color he is.

Your the one with a guilt chip on his shoulder running around seeing the world though injustice colored glasses .... we all get discriminated against in life in one form or the other .... so flippn what . You are either choose victim-hood or courage ... you seem to choose victim-hood.
 
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seb146
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:41 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
I simply hate stupid ass people like Oscar Grant who confront the police and cause violence in our streets ... don't care what color he is.

He was drunk and acting stupid. However, I believe he did NOT set out to cause violence or confront police. He was just drunk on New Years and acting stupid. Unfortunatly, it happenes. And, no, it does not matter what color the person's skin is. If they are acting stupid, they should be detained for the safety of themselves and others. This is not an "us versus them" issue as the media wants it to be but rather a "here is one extremely horribly bad consequence if you get drunk and start acting the fool." Plenty of people of all backgrounds have been drunk or high or both on public transit and have never had a problem.
 
BN747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:03 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
Your the one with a guilt chip on his shoulder running around seeing the world though injustice colored glasses .... we all get discriminated against in life in one form or the other

Now that's an enormous contradiction..either we are (as you say discriminated against in some for or another) or I'm wrong (the chip thing) for recognizing that too! Both can't be right. Am I wrong (in your eyes) for seeing the reality of your latter statement? Twisted logic at it's best.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
so flippn what . You are either choose victim-hood or courage ... you seem to choose victim-hood.

Wrong again, victims are very real things. They happen by the minute in the form of robbery, beatings, discrimination (sexist and racist) rape, theft, killings, etc in every city on this planet.

Your right-wing talking head leaders have taught you successive to combat charges of racism with 'calling people sympathetic to victims) do you do the same for women? Run around and loosely calling the all wannabe victims as well?
Because you CANNOT in any shape of form proclaim sexism and sexist acts against women - DEAD. And as you cannot do that..you cannot do the same for racism and acts of it. Yes, both of these victims are real, you just choose recognize only one demographic and listen to what the talking point guides tell you regarding on how to deal with the other.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 32):
I you can stomach it, obtain the book 'White Law, Black Resistance'... a factual historic account of what you claim doesn't/never existed -- althought something tells me you can't possibly be up for that.



Ok ... I will

HA! In a pigs eye....but be warned, I'll know if you really did (should you really decide to do so) or whether you just skimmed it and come back and try to pass it off as if you really did. The difference in your 'knowledge of the subject' compared to today and (after reading it) will be truly immeasuarable.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
If they are acting stupid, they should be detained for the safety of themselves and others

True

Quoting seb146 (Reply 34):
This is not an "us versus them" issue as the media wants it to be

Not true, the history of these type of stories have built a solid foundation of mistrust between minorities and police. This incident just added another floor to the ever growing taller pyramid of that mistrust. If there were no such history...you'd have a very valid statement. History beat the media to the punch.


BN747
 
N1120A
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:43 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
What irks me is why the trial was moved to Los Angeles.

Why?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
The media keeps emphasizing the race issue too. The bottom line is that an unarmed man was murdered by a police in uniform. This scumbag officer should serve a life sentence.

Well, yes and no. The question is whether a cop would have shot an obviously white guy in the back with either a taser or a gun.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
This is the same corrupt system that let off the 4 officers that beat Rodney King, O.J. Simpson, Soon Ja Du and plenty other cases of injustice

Corrupt? O.J. was a completely different situation from King and Soon.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
When a "minority" officer (read: Latino, Black, Asian) kills a white suspect, the media says "officer involved shooting.... the officer is on paid leave."

Its exceedingly rather rare that such situations happen.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

Or get a job at Fox news.

I wouldn't put it past those scumbags.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

This incident was in no way was murder, which requires pre-medidated intent to kill.

You don't know the definition of murder then.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):

Superfly is right: Drunk drivers who kill recieve more time. A drunk driver who kills a person had no intent to kill anyone. They made a horrible and stupid mistake. 2 years for a decision that could have been corrected in 2 seconds (check weapon before pulling trigger)? That seems rather generous.

Exactly.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 23):
there is nobody around to defend the cops and the atmosphere becomes highly toxic.

Um, the cops have how many different weapons on them?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):

Putting your key in the ignition and driving away is clear intent, not a mistake.

Driving while drunk is reckless, not intentional conduct.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):

In legal terms, that does not matter.

You have demonstrated a clear misunderstanding of what the legal terms actually are.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 28):

One convicted of killing from rage would get a 2nd and possibly a 3rd degree sentence.

No such thing as third degree murder in CA.
 
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OA412
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:45 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):

What a load of crap. The worst racists I have ever encountered are the ones who claim that they are color blind, and the ones who claim that people are victims because they choose to be so. Even the most well meaning among us judge and prejudge as BN747 put it. It's the way you process that judgement that matters.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
we all get discriminated against in life in one form or the other .... so flippn what .

So flippin what? So it's OK that people are denied opportunities because of their gender, or the color of their skin, or their sexuality? You claim to be "color blind" and then you blow off discrimination as though it is acceptable behavior.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
You are either choose victim-hood or courage ... you seem to choose victim-hood.

Yeah it's just that simple...

[Edited 2010-07-11 19:46:57]
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:53 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 18):
Super ... do you believe that the officer knowingly pulled his .40 and shot a kid in the back at point blank. ?

Besides the point.
There are people serving 20+ years for making a 'mistake'.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
I am post racial .
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
but it keeps the poor black victim crowd happy.

Comments like this is why we don't believe you're claim to be color-blind and post racial.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Why?

Because of L.A.'s poor track record with high-profile cases. Last week's verdict is another example.
Also, the reason for moving the trial to SoCal was lame to begin with. The claim was that racial tensions were higher in Alameda county? There is no place on this planet free of racism.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Driving while drunk is reckless, not intentional conduct.

  

....and this cops actions were reckless and he should pay the price as all other's do when they kill people.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):

You are spot on 100%!
The member posting from Arizona is either being facetious or needs some serious schooling.
 
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:42 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 35):
The difference in your 'knowledge of the subject' compared to today and (after reading it) will be truly immeasuarable.

That usually does happen when we read any book of critical thought or opposing view. BN I know you wont be happy until every white person floggs themsleves in the morning for past sins.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
You claim to be "color blind" and then you blow off discrimination as though it is acceptable behavior.


I was saying that it happens to everyone .... it takes courage to overcome and press on.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
Comments like this is why we don't believe you're claim to be color-blind and post racial.


Of course ... no one is 100% color blind . That does not matter ...it is your actions in life that count. And I have faced the issue in my life ... and have made the right choices.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
The member posting from Arizona is either being facetious or needs some serious schooling.


Do not think that I don't know that African Americans have gotten a raw deal ... who could deny it. But when in business I see successful people of all color's shapes and sizes ...it makes me wonder. I told you before that I have worked and lived life with all kinds of people ... they are people who don't look back ..they don't look for excuses . If they get discriminated against they don't care ...they keep there pride and they keep pressing on. That is the message we need to give to men like Oscar Grant out their.... not victim hood and reasons for excuse. Like the grandfather of Oscar Grant said ... just like that honourable man said.
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:10 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
I told you before that I have worked and lived life with all kinds of people ... they are people who don't look back ..they don't look for excuses .

This is not a discussion about self-help vs. social programs. This about an unarmed man already in handcuffs that was murdered by a law enforcement officer (branch of government).

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
in business I see successful people of all color's shapes and sizes ...

...and they put up with bigoted narrow-minded people in the business world too. They just may not get in your face about it.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
BN I know you wont be happy until every white person floggs themsleves in the morning for past sins.

That is not what BN747 wants nor is suggesting and you know that. Again, comments like that is why we don't believe you're genuine in your comments about race issues and your claims to be open-minded.


I am sure you'd feel much different if it was your kid that was murdered by a police officer.
 
N1120A
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:22 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
The worst racists I have ever encountered are the ones who claim that they are color blind, and the ones who claim that people are victims because they choose to be so

This is so true.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
So it's OK that people are denied opportunities because of their gender, or the color of their skin, or their sexuality? You claim to be "color blind" and then you blow off discrimination as though it is acceptable behavior.

Take a look at people like Rand Paul who want to roll back the Civil Rights Act to nothing. Same mentality.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):

Because of L.A.'s poor track record with high-profile cases. Last week's verdict is another example.

Remember, the King trial was moved for similar fair trial reasons. The problem is that they moved it to Simi Valley, which is the epitome of Cop Land.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
Also, the reason for moving the trial to SoCal was lame to begin with. The claim was that racial tensions were higher in Alameda county?

The main reason was for fair trial reasons due to media coverage. It is a common occurrence in all jurisdictions.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 40):
This about an unarmed man already in handcuffs that was murdered by a law enforcement officer (branch of government).

Precisely.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 37):
The worst racists I have ever encountered are the ones who claim that they are color blind, and the ones who claim that people are victims because they choose to be so

This is so true.

Sad but true.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Remember, the King trial was moved for similar fair trial reasons. The problem is that they moved it to Simi Valley, which is the epitome of Cop Land.

Simi Valley, L.A. is the same damn thing!
It's the same media market. I knew that case was over once it moved to Simi Valley. They basically wanted an all Republican jury by re-locating there.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
The main reason was for fair trial reasons due to media coverage. It is a common occurrence in all jurisdictions.

Totally outdated idea now that we have the Internet.
 
N1120A
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:24 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):

Simi Valley, L.A. is the same damn thing!

Not at all.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):

Totally outdated idea now that we have the Internet.

Not really, especially given the normal composition of juries.
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:58 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
Not at all.

The only thing separating Simi Valley and L.A. is a hill.
It's basically a gated community within metro Los Angeles.
It may not be as cool & hip as West LA, Brentwood or Hollywood but it's still Los Angeles.
Yeah, yeah it's in Ventura county but the flavor is very much metro Los Angeles.
 
BN747
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:13 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
The only thing separating Simi Valley and L.A. is a hill.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
Simi Valley, L.A. is the same damn thing!

Whoa dude...you're down here every year for the holidays (OR you've never hung out in Simi Valley -- which you don't wanna)...

..you know if Simi Valley and LA were the same...OJ's trial would have lasted all of 30 mins (Prosecuter : Opening statement -then- Jury: We've heard enough, Guilty' .... and Mark Furhrman would either be LA's Police Chief or Mayor. I'd like to see Simi Valley get a latino mayor!   

BN747
 
N1120A
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:25 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):

The only thing separating Simi Valley and L.A. is a hill.

And a huge dose of culture.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):

It's basically a gated community within metro Los Angeles.

You need to look again Larry.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):

It may not be as cool & hip as West LA, Brentwood or Hollywood but it's still Los Angeles.

The only thing "Los Angeles" about Simi Valley is that a large portion of the LAPD lives there.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
Yeah, yeah it's in Ventura county but the flavor is very much metro Los Angeles.

It is part of Metro Los Angeles, but the demographics are shockingly different. Simi Valley is even very different from the rest of Ventura County.
 
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OA412
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Take a look at people like Rand Paul who want to roll back the Civil Rights Act to nothing. Same mentality.

   And then people defend him (and others like him) by claiming that his words were taken out of context. Really? What sort of a fool do you take me for?

[Edited 2010-07-12 01:04:16]
 
Superfly
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:26 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
The only thing "Los Angeles" about Simi Valley is that a large portion of the LAPD lives there.

Which is why I said that there was no point in moving the trial to Simi Valley.
That is enough reason right there! It's still the same media market. Moving the trial to Simi Valley was basically assuring a not guilty verdict.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
And a huge dose of culture.

Which is why I said;
"It may not be as cool & hip as West LA, Brentwood or Hollywood but it's still Los Angeles."
"It's basically a gated community within metro Los Angeles."

I used to go to CSUN in Northridge and I've had friends in Simi Valley which is only 15-20 minutes away on the 118.
I know very well the demographic make up of Simi Valley.
In fact, Simi Valley and Los Angeles share a border. Look at it on a map.
Granted the boundary is along the ridge of the Santa Susana Mountain ridge but they are neighbors.
Yes we've all had/have neighbors we don't like but Simi Valley is you next door neighbor.


That said, from a legal standpoint, moving that trial to Simi Valley was pointless. Same for the Oscar Grant trial.
Give me one good reason as to why the Oscar Grant trial shouldn't have been tried in the county the crime took place?

Apparently moving trials have caused more harm than good.

BN747 & N1120A, I can totally understand why you don't want to claim Simi Valley but like it or not, it's still part of the Los Angeles metropolitan area.
 
N1120A
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RE: Arrests In Oakland As Bart Cop's Trial Concludes

Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:48 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):

In fact, Simi Valley and Los Angeles share a border. Look at it on a map.

Yes, we know this. That doesn't change the fact that Simi Valley is exceptionally different from a demographic point of view.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):

Which is why I said that there was no point in moving the trial to Simi Valley.

I think that they should have moved it to San Francisco if they were going to move it.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):

Give me one good reason as to why the Oscar Grant trial shouldn't have been tried in the county the crime took place?

I will give you the reason the used. Fair trial. I'm not saying I agree with the change of venue.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
I can totally understand why you don't want to claim Simi Valley but like it or not, it's still part of the Los Angeles metropolitan area.

No one said it isn't. That said, Pleasanton is part of the San Francisco metro area and is hardly called "San Francisco."

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