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rfields5421
Posts: 6225
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:09 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
I would start a consulting company . Many companies are looking for contractors now ... and looking to cut costs

Not something I haven't tried. There are a couple thousand new IT one or two person consulting companies in the Dallas area in the past 18 months. Most get about one 30 hour job every couple months according to what I hear at various places we meet.

While finding a job is very much about getting in the front door due to someone you know, or who recommends you - IT consulting is even more competitive and subject to inside recommendations.

I haven't given up hope - and yes, I've done some consulting work. Sometimes it pays more than the unemployment I give up, sometimes less. I've got most jobs from other out of work people calling for help with something they don't have experience with.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:26 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 47):
Superfly commented that he was against making people work for the money, while receiving the hand-out.... something about it being a punishment. But I wonder if anyone would be opposed to your suggestion? Hell, it might be an incentive for them to get off their lazy asses, and not wait around for NINETY NINE freakin' weeks.

You seem to be clueless about the state of the US economy. Try reading up on the subject before categorizing 15+ million people as "Lazy." Given that much of the long term unemployed are older, they've paid into the system for years, so hardly "a hand out" as you claim. Eligibility for Unemployment is determined by prior wage and the reason you lost your job. You have to submit your work search logs and review your progress with a caseworker.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/business/economy/03jobs.html

Look at the graph on the multimedia section of the article. Net job creation by the private sector has been in positive territory for the past few months and is not growing at a pace to keep up with population growth let alone recouping the jobs lost in the recession. Much of those numbers have been inflated by temporary census hiring (overall) and of course the impending state layoffs as the stimulus money expires.

You can't get jobs if the economy isn't creating them. The US economy is based on consumer spending and job creation comes typically from small business hiring. Neither of which are doing well right now.

You all seem to spout out notions of people sitting on their asses, but yet the actual stats dispute that claim. Using anecdotal stories of a few abusing unemployment doesn't give you the right to judge so many desperate people actually trying to find a job. $325 a week is hardly a sustainable wage, and you still have to pay taxes on that. I am not sure what planet some of the people here are living on, but I'd like to see a household actually manage their life on $1,200 a month. Unless you're some kid living in your parents' basement, it's practically impossible.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 45):
Man you are right about that ... but in most cases a employee will have some idea that the ice is thin. Of course there are exceptions ... like a pending contract getting canceled and the workforce cut that happens . This happened to me .... after I had relocated to another state . It was tough no doubt ...very uncertain times .. but we made it .. we made it without taking your money to get by.

Not when the entire economy tanks within a few months. Everyone has been hit hard by this recession. There is no way to hedge that kind of risk.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 48):
Why couldn't they do what the Republicans suggested and simply redirect the money this government wastes to pay for this?

Statement on the economic impact:

"The President's Council of Economic Advisers calculates that every $1 spent on unemployment benefits boosts economic output by $1.60. Similarly, the Congressional Budget Office says unemployment checks offer the biggest bang for the buck of any government policy designed to jump-start economic growth — anywhere from 70 cents to $1.90 for every $1 spent on benefits. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, pegs the figure at $1.61."

Source:http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2010-07-15-unemployment15_CV_N.htm

Edit: Misread thegreatRDU's comment, sorry about that!

[Edited 2010-07-20 16:31:25]
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:50 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 48):
Why couldn't they do what the Republicans suggested and simply redirect the money this government wastes to pay for this?

Sure, when the Republicans are willing to do the same to pay for elective wars, then you can do that.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:38 am

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 51):
You seem to be clueless about the state of the US economy.

Blah blah blah. Lash out at me, all you want, it doesn't make a difference. Face it... this argument is just like the abortion argument: each side has firmly set opinions, and very few can be persuaded. You're just spinning your tires.

But if it means anything, I think it's obvious that my disgust is squarely aimed at the oafs, who need the NINETY NINE weeks of hand-outs. I agree with AGM100, they ought to pay it back. If they don't, then they are ungrateful oafs.  
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:39 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
I have no problem with people who lost their jobs receive UI until they find another job. Forcing them to do manual labor to receive a small UI check is ridiculous.

I seem to remember a whole bunch of people here that were all for out of work people getting in on these "shovel ready" jobs that the stimulus bill was going to fund when it was up for consideration last year. They were all going to be out there like the chain gang in Cool Hand Luke spreading tar and pea gravel.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
By the way, many retail jobs are shutting down too so that job at Subway probably wouldn't be available anyway. Not to mention, if there was an opening at a Subway, the hiring manger is going to want someone with fast-food experience, not a laid off airline pilot or engineer.

Given the choice of a person with a work history and a 16 year old with none and no clue, I think I know who I'd choose since both would probably last just as long.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 52):
Sure, when the Republicans are willing to do the same to pay for elective wars, then you can do that.

Two wrongs make a right theory? BTW the current President and Speaker both endorsed paygo at the start of his administration. So far it's been all go and no pay.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:25 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 42):
Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable

That's an incredibly narrow minded and ignorant view. There's no such thing as a completely safe job and it's not always clear that layoffs are coming.

The is extremely narrow-minded and crass statement of him to make. This is a man that claims to have 'risen to the to of his company', yet is completley clueless on this issue. Makes me wonder....

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 43):
when does it end ?..... 126 weeks ? 200 weeks?

When the economy shows signs of recovery. Doesn't really matter since that money goes right back in to the economy.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 47):
Hell, it might be an incentive for them to get off their lazy asses, and not wait around for NINETY NINE freakin' weeks.

Even though members have given you real life experiences of what their work search history? Are you saying that rfields5421,sv7887 and ShyFlyer are "lazy-asses"?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 47):
**I am still sh*tting bricks over that. I can't believe they last for ninety nine weeks. Unfreakin'-believable.

Stay seated on the toilet with that attitude.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 53):
I agree with AGM100, they ought to pay it back. If they don't, then they are ungrateful oafs.

Should that be in the form of a tattoo or yellow arm band?
Bring back the Concorde
 
sv7887
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:17 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 53):
Blah blah blah. Lash out at me, all you want, it doesn't make a difference. Face it... this argument is just like the abortion argument: each side has firmly set opinions, and very few can be persuaded. You're just spinning your tires.

Either the economy is creating jobs or it isn't. This isn't a moral judgment or argument like abortion. It's simply fact based.

I have the statistics on my side. You don't. That's the difference.

The state of the job market can be clearly stated with job creation, discouraged worker numbers, and real unemployment rates. I've shown links to those in my last posts. These are all measurable through well established economic indicators.

Your "opinions" don't mean anything when it can be factually proven a) unemployment is a serious problem b) the US economy is not creating jobs, c) the American consumer, which drives economic growth is not spending at the moment. Add the lack of lending, national debt, investment in the stock market, and the global slowdown and you have a recipe for trouble.

It's a good reason investors have not jumped back into the stock market, rather they've parked their money into bond funds and money market accounts.
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:23 am

I guess is this good...after all "unemployment benefits creates jobs..."   
Our Returning Champion
 
Superfly
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:29 am

For what it's worth, California Republican Senate candidate Carly Fiorina has flip-flopped on her stance on the unemployment extension. She now is saying that she would vote with the Democrats and support the unemployment extensions.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15560970?nclick_check=1
Bring back the Concorde
 
AGM100
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:36 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 55):
The is extremely narrow-minded and crass statement of him to make. This is a man that claims to have 'risen to the to of his company', yet is completley clueless on this issue. Makes me wonder....



I have not risen to the top ... I own the company and took the extreme risks involved in doing so. I understand employee relations as good as anyone else.

I have worked in the airline / MRO industry all my life ... and full well know the ups and down of it. I have seen people , especially in the maintenance field come and go in the revolving door world of heavy maintenance . They choose to be mechanics or airframe technicians .... they get a job at a MRO for a heavy maint program that they fully understand is going to end eventually. They decide ... they understand the business and they choose to do it.

What I did was use those employment opportunities when I was in the maint work force to learn ... to meet people , to network and to position myself to get out of that cycle. That is all , I used my days of stripping aircraft , bucking rivets and installing interiors to learn and move on. I made relationships , I worked my ass off, got noticed and made solid alliances . Those days of as I call it "eating shit" have paid off for me ... people know that I am a man of my word and they trust me to do what I say. I never expected a hand out , I never expected assistance .... I earned every single thing I have the hard way. And I resent people who blame there life situation on others ...even if they have been totally disadvantaged and screwed over . Your life is your life and you better get control of it... and most certainly stop looking for a saviour.

That said ... I would happily stack my charitable giving against anyone else . My controller had ripped my ass for sending too much money to charities . That is because I do sympathise with people who are struggling and disadvantaged ... and I understand the true meaning of life is what you do for others . I just don't need the federal government to direct my givings for me ... I am fine without them.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
daedaeg
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:54 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!? What are these people doing? Laziness has no bounds, apparently.

I'm actually ok with temporary unemployment hand-outs. It helps maintain a level of stability in the community, and in families. But the key word is temporary. When we have people living off of these hand-outs, and choosing to spend their time going on vacations, or sitting at home, it's a major problem. Benefits for 3 months. Max.

Well you have a secure government job, so clearly this is an issue you can't relate to. But even in good times it can take 2 to 3 months to find a decent job. In this ecomomy, it will most likely take much longer to find something that will allow a person to make ends meet. UI is insurance. It's not a handout. The unemployed and their employer pay into the system. And the average UI check is only a few hundred bucks a month. It's not like you're going to get the same amount you were making on your job. Trust me, most people would rather work and make money, than be on unemployment. Are there people who milk the system? yes, no doubt about it. But that's not the majority.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 10761
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:32 pm

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 51):
Not when the entire economy tanks within a few months. Everyone has been hit hard by this recession. There is no way to hedge that kind of risk.

There is a way to hedge. Most financial experts agree that 3 to 6 months of salary should be in the bank at all times. For events exactly like these. Far too many folks live far beyond their means, and then when they loose a job , they are flat out surprised. My wife and I have over a years worth, but that is because we planned for her to stay home for a few years and raise our kids

Quoting daedaeg (Reply 60):
But even in good times it can take 2 to 3 months to find a decent job.

Possibly, but if it came down to it, I would either try to start my own business or take a job in another field where my skills can be applied. The current 99 week unemployment period actually discourages a shake up in the market workforce as far too many people hold out hope of getting a "similar" job rather than moving on and getting new skills or finding another niche in another industry. 99 weeks also allows some people to coast by. Part of me wishes my wife had been let go instead of going on maternity leave so we could have gotten paid for her staying at home. ( not that we would have done this, or that my wife's boss would have let her go). There are folks out there perfectly coasting when they need to be shaken up and motivated. I would imagine that far fewer than 50% of those currently on unemployment past 6 months are truly working hard to get a job.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:41 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
There are folks out there perfectly coasting when they need to be shaken up and motivated.

I doubt they are really coasting on their whopping $300 a week check. For most people, they can't live on that.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:47 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 62):
I doubt they are really coasting on their whopping $300 a week check. For most people, they can't live on that.

300 a week is 1300 a month. At that rate a lot of folks can survive. Especially if their spouse is working. If unemployment is less than what they could be making elsewhere and they are motivated, then they will go get a job. 300 a week is the average, and incidentally, it is just barely over minimum wage.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:58 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:17 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 1):
You made the choice to be in a job that was vulnerable ... you failed to see the writing on the wall ...

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. For example, back in my hometown, Cummins engine company cut more than a thousand jobs last year...and then went on to have their most profitable year in the history of the company. Cummins was and remains a stable and growing company, the employees that were cut (which include a few hundred high-level workers like design engineers) had no indication that their jobs were vulnerable and would have had to move away from the town where they are raising their families in order to find another job (which would probably have seemed "more vulnerable"). The truth is that in this economy, unless you are a CEO or other high-level corporate officer of a stable company, all of our jobs could be considered vulnerable. I don't care what company you work for, we are in the midst of the worst financial crisis since the great depression, and greed is increasingly the deciding factor when companies are making decisions.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
I'm sorry... but unemployed for 6, 8, 10,12 months!? What are these people doing? Laziness has no bounds, apparently

It's called a recession and actually, it is greed that has no bounds. Corporate greed specifically. For example, Cummins, in Columbus, IN, and Whirlpool, in Evansville, IN, recently announce that they were moving thousands of jobs to Mexico, not because they could not make a profit here, but because they could make a bigger profit by paying workers in Mexico less. It is not the workers laziness or fault.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:00 pm

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 64):
I don't care what company you work for, we are in the midst of the worst financial crisis since the great depression, and greed is increasingly the deciding factor when companies are making decisions.



And Greed was the factor that built the company in the first place too then.. I guess . Or did the owner do it because he felt bad for the unemployed ?

Why is my comment of personal responsibility being called ridiculous ..? Personal responsibility and the drive to succeed and be secure is the main motivating factor that creates economy everywhere. So a person that decides to just work a assembly line somewhere must take at the minimum enough responsibility to save money and protect themselves against layoffs .,.,.. that is life . The people that just show up and work , don't take any view of there larger situation are free to do so. But , it is not the responsibility of those who do to pick up there lives for them. We must get back to the idea that bad choices have consequences ... and that includes wall street companies and corporations . We have to get back to letting people and companies fail . This is the way we all learn .... by failing and this is the way mankind progresses not by growing the dependent class.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:19 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 65):

And Greed was the factor that built the company in the first place too then.. I guess . Or did the owner do it because he felt bad for the unemployed ?

Why is my comment of personal responsibility being called ridiculous ..? Personal responsibility and the drive to succeed and be secure is the main motivating factor that creates economy everywhere. So a person that decides to just work a assembly line somewhere must take at the minimum enough responsibility to save money and protect themselves against layoffs .,.,.. that is life . The people that just show up and work , don't take any view of there larger situation are free to do so. But , it is not the responsibility of those who do to pick up there lives for them. We must get back to the idea that bad choices have consequences ... and that includes wall street companies and corporations . We have to get back to letting people and companies fail . This is the way we all learn .... by failing and this is the way mankind progresses not by growing the dependent class.

No, there is a difference between trying to make a profit and greed IMO. Greed sends jobs oversees, hurting the US economy. Trying to make a profit means companies will work ethically and care about their workers and the communities they are in. I feel that your comment is ridiculous because we are in the midst of a recession. The idea that people chose to be in a vulnerable job is ridiculous because any company CAN FAIL. Sure, choosing a job at a startup may be more risky than a job at a large, well established company; but we are in a financial crisis and all jobs are and companies are vulnerable. A start-up failing may be a learning experience, but a multi-national corporation failing is just bad management and greed.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:38 pm

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 66):

I think it is catch-22, you have to be greedy to be big, so there really can't be a big, "ethical" company. As long as they don't go Enron-crazy, greed/profit-driven is the only way to survive. It's the name of the game.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:18 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
Most financial experts agree that 3 to 6 months of salary should be in the bank at all times. For events exactly like these.

That sounds fine & dandy if you can save that up or had no major expenses that came up while you were working. . Many expenses such as student loans on top of your regular monthly expenses can make it difficult to save up that amount.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
My wife and I have over a years worth, but that is because we planned for her to stay home for a few years and raise our kids

Good for you. Everyone's case is different. Everyone has a story to tell.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
I would either try to start my own business.....

That requires a lot of money. Banks aren't just handing out business loans at the moment.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 63):
Especially if their spouse is working.

What if they is no spouse in the picture?
What if the spouse is out of work too?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 61):
getting new skills

What college/university offers a degree in less than 99 weeks? Usually it takes 3-5 years to get a Masters or another degree.



So all of you members who still think the 20 million+ unemployed people are "lazy" despite the real life stories presented in this thread, please tell us which industries are hurting for new hires. Outside of bankruptcy lawyers, I can't think of any field that is doing well.
Bring back the Concorde
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 910
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:02 am

This administration has made everything worse...this is a global economy they are chasing jobs away...
Our Returning Champion
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 69):
This administration has made everything worse...this is a global economy they are chasing jobs away...

Jobs have been going overseas long before Obama was elected President.
UI checks go directly towards mortgage payments / rent, utilities, groceries, gas/bus fare to get to job interviews and other necessities.
Can you imagine how bad things would be if these 20million+ didn't have the funds to pay for these necessities?
It would be a lose, lose situation for everyone.
Bring back the Concorde
 
thegreatRDU
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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:44 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 70):

Jobs have been going overseas long before Obama was elected President.
UI checks go directly towards mortgage payments / rent, utilities, groceries, gas/bus fare to get to job interviews and other necessities.
Can you imagine how bad things would be if these 20million+ didn't have the funds to pay for these necessities?
It would be a lose, lose situation for everyone.

Of course they were...what I'm saying is this administration has made it worse/accelerated...but you know what? I'm glad Obama's stimulus has "saved or created 3 million jobs"   ....
It's a global economy..and the emerging markets are where the money is...they are pro-business
Our Returning Champion
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:49 am

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 71):
It's a global economy..and the emerging markets are where the money is...they are pro-business

Great. Hopefully they can start hiring some people. A vast majority of those on UI would much rather work.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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casinterest
Posts: 10761
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:00 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
So all of you members who still think the 20 million+ unemployed people are "lazy" despite the real life stories presented in this thread, please tell us which industries are hurting for new hires. Outside of bankruptcy lawyers, I can't think of any field that is doing well.

It's not that all are lazy. I think a good amount are,especially the further you get into the duration of the unemployment. Specifically those making a wage below minimum wage while on unemployment. Plenty of minimum wage jobs are available. The IT industry is hiring. Health Care for all those aging boomers that need care.
What isn't going to come back is all the jobs lost to manufacturing overseas and the Auto Industry jobs that paid high middle wage incomes to folks. All those Construction jobs and lending jobs that were all over the place during the housing boom probably aren't going to recover much anytime soon.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:21 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 73):
Plenty of minimum wage jobs are available.

I think you need to scroll up and read more of the replies in this thread.
Many retail chains are closing it's doors. Also many minimum wage jobs don't want to hire older people that have skills, degrees and years of experience in a different industry.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 73):
The IT industry is hiring.

Sure about that? You may want to read the post by Sv7887 as well as rfields5421 post #37 in this thread.
However, IF you are right, then explain this.....

Quoting casinterest (Reply 73):
What isn't going to come back is all the jobs lost to manufacturing overseas and the Auto Industry jobs that paid high middle wage incomes to folks. All those Construction jobs and lending jobs that were all over the place during the housing boom probably aren't going to recover much anytime soon.

So with that said, what college or university offers a degree to become an IT professional in less than 99 weeks?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 73):
Health Care for all those aging boomers that need care.

Read DocLightning's post #30.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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casinterest
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):
think you need to scroll up and read more of the replies in this thread.
Many retail chains are closing it's doors. Also many minimum wage jobs don't want to hire older people that have skills, degrees and years of experience in a different industry

There are plenty of help wanted signs in Raleigh.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):
Sure about that? You may want to read the post by Sv7887 as well as rfields5421 post #37 in this thread.
However, IF you are right, then explain this

Same as above.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):
So with that said, what college or university offers a degree to become an IT professional in less than 99 weeks?

IT doesn't necessarily require a degree, and I didn't take Unemployment when went to college.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):
Read DocLightning's post #30.

Docs specialty is in Pediatrics. Not in elderly care.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:19 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 75):
There are plenty of help wanted signs in Raleigh.

So everyone should pack their bags and move to Raleigh to work at McDonald's and Subway.  
Quoting casinterest (Reply 75):
IT doesn't necessarily require a degree,

True. Instead they want previous work experience. How can one obtain that in less than 99 weeks?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 75):
I didn't take Unemployment when went to college.

You couldn't do that any way. You're not allowed to go to college and receive UI at the same time.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 75):
Docs specialty is in Pediatrics. Not in elderly care.

There are plenty of sick babies that need care. There are more babies than aging baby-boomers.
Bring back the Concorde
 
slider
Posts: 7550
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:24 pm

And just think---less than half of the stimulus funds have been spent.

No jobs created. No economic growth. None of the major indicators have reversed. No clue from Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

Hope and Change, baby.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:35 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 76):
So everyone should pack their bags and move to Raleigh to work at McDonald's and Subway.

It's a possibility  
Quoting Superfly (Reply 76):
True. Instead they want previous work experience. How can one obtain that in less than 99 weeks?

Why are you so big on 99 weeks. I thinkk there should be UEI, but 99 weeks is extreme. 6-9 months max .

Quoting Superfly (Reply 76):
There are plenty of sick babies that need care. There are more babies than aging baby-boomers.

Babies as a whole and toddlers are a lot healthier than the boomers. The percentages needing treatement tilts much higher in the aging population.

The problem with 99 weeks, 6 months or any UEI, is that eventually it runs out. To truly fix what is wrong with the US economy, we need to reduce exporting nations dependence on our consumption. To an extent, UEI helps prolong that seperation, by keeping our consumption artificially high, but UEI doesn't really do anything to change the jobs outlook on a long term basis. If the economy isn't recovering, then we still have problems.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:42 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 78):
Why are you so big on 99 weeks.

Huh?
I am using that as an example because that is the maximum one can receive.
You do realize that almost all of that UI money goes right back in to the economy immediately.

I feel this thread is going in circles. Everything you need to know about this topic has already been discussed.
Just scroll up and read the above post.
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casinterest
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:53 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 79):
You do realize that almost all of that UI money goes right back in to the economy immediately.

I know it goes in, but that is part of the problem. We are a consumption based economy, and our production is slipping away. This money doesn't really help us generate new jobs. Although it probably does help keep some jobs from going away for a bit longer.
I know people need it, but for the economy as a whole, it isn't providing a solution to the biggest problem of creating jobs.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
avek00
Posts: 3241
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 80):
I know it goes in, but that is part of the problem.

No, it's part of what is helping to keep the United States from falling into a deeper recession or even a depression.

Alot of the "conservative" posters in this thread seem to downplay or ignore the reality that UI spending is good for everyone, unemployed and employed alike. Virtually all UI funds given out go immediately into economic activity, which keeps others in the community employed and preserves the value of homes and businesses.

And with respect to 99 weeks, let's get something straight. No one in the United States is entitled to 100% UI at the same rate for 99 weeks straight. Rather, an individual is entitled to 26 weeks of unemployment insurance from the state of his or her residence at a rate determined by the state. If those benefits are exhausted, a worker may be eligible for up to 73 weeks of additional UI, at between 50-80% of the prior state UI rate, paid for by the federal government, and with rather stringent needs to show proof of seeking work, and a level of high unemployment in the relevant state.
Live life to the fullest.
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:58 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:53 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 77):
No jobs created. No economic growth. None of the major indicators have reversed. No clue from Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

Hope and Change, baby.

Actually, I heard the number of jobs created was closer to 682,370...which is economic growth
http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

[Edited 2010-07-22 15:23:00]
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.

We should put them to work cleaning up oil in the Gulf.   

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 45):
I think welfare recipients should have to pay it back ... I would support a program like that , If you borrow say 5000 over a period of months .. you pay it back over time. Or ..you work it off in the community , something to support and teach the value of the money they are receiving . Now it is simply seen as government stash ....

I don't know why anyone wouldn't support such a system. First, it will encourage people who go on it to get off as soon as possible to minimize the amount they would have to pay back. Second, if they choose to repay it through community service, then the entire community benefits.


Quoting BAKJet (Reply 82):
Actually, I heard the number of jobs created was closer to 682,370...which is economic growth

Let's take a look at how they fudge those numbers by "recycling" jobs, especially with Census Workers:

Last week, one of the millions of workers hired by Census 2010 to parade around the country counting Americans blew the whistle on some statistical tricks.

The worker, Naomi Cohn, told The Post that she was hired and fired a number of times by Census. Each time she was hired back, it seems, Census was able to report the creation of a new job to the Labor Department.

Below, I have a couple more readers who worked for Census 2010 and have tales to tell.

But first, this much we know.

Each month Census gives Labor a figure on the number of workers it has hired. That figure goes into the closely followed monthly employment report Labor provides. For the past two months the hiring by Census has made up a good portion of the new jobs.

Labor doesn't check the Census hiring figure or whether the jobs are actually new or recycled. It considers a new job to have been created if someone is hired to work at least one hour a month.

One hour! A month! So, if a worker is terminated after only one hour and another is hired in her place, then a second new job can apparently be reported to Labor . (I've been unable to get Census to explain this to me.)

Here's a note from a Census worker -- this one from Manhattan:

"John: I am on my fourth rehire with the 2010 Census.

"I have been hired, trained for a week, given a few hours of work, then laid off. So my unemployed self now counts for four new jobs.

"I have been paid more to train all four times than I have been paid to actually produce results. These are my tax dollars and your tax dollars at work."


Source

In other words, the Census Bureau would hire someone, say that is "1 job created", then terminate that person, then hire a new person. Rather than saying that's still 1 net job (2 people hired and 1 fired), the Census would say that "2 jobs were created", despite one person being unemployed.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:44 pm

Unemployment is good .... the more people in need is just what the democrats want. They thrive on the needy ... and despise the self motivated independent greedy people. The engine of America is self motivated entrepreneurs .... the creators the thinkers and the risk takers .... we are now the enemy. Like all good Marxists ..they have branded us as rebels ... they have branded us a racists , greedy self serving crackers . We do not conform to the unionization of America ..we do not conform to the nanny state ideas of the left ...our taxes may be seen as low now but continued spending will only see to it that our grandchildren are slaves to the tax man.

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 66):
Greed sends jobs oversees



In some cases you may be right.... but also a major factor is forced high wages and benefits packages wrought by unions. Not to mention regulations and taxes....
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:58 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:27 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
In some cases you may be right.... but also a major factor is forced high wages and benefits packages wrought by unions. Not to mention regulations and taxes....

I don't think less benefits in the US is what needs to happen. Instead, we just need to make sure that companies are forced to follow the same regulations abroad. Sure, there is a lot of more complicated stuff like how to make companies stay in the US at all. But regulations taxes and unions help Americans IMO. Withouth we would still have sweatshops and child labor.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 83):
Let's take a look at how they fudge those numbers by "recycling" jobs, especially with Census Workers:

Hmm. Interesting if it's true, but I don't think the New York Post is the most reputable newspaper (correct me if I'm wrong). I mean heck, Fox hasn't even picked this story up have they?
 
thegreatRDU
Posts: 910
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:15 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
Unemployment is good .... the more people in need is just what the democrats want. They thrive on the needy ... and despise the self motivated independent greedy people. The engine of America is self motivated entrepreneurs .... the creators the thinkers and the risk takers .... we are now the enemy. Like all good Marxists ..they have branded us as rebels ... they have branded us a racists , greedy self serving crackers . We do not conform to the unionization of America ..we do not conform to the nanny state ideas of the left ...our taxes may be seen as low now but continued spending will only see to it that our grandchildren are slaves to the tax man.

Finally someone who gets it..

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 85):
I don't think less benefits in the US is what needs to happen. Instead, we just need to make sure that companies are forced to follow the same regulations abroad. Sure, there is a lot of more complicated stuff like how to make companies stay in the US at all. But regulations taxes and unions help Americans IMO. Withouth we would still have sweatshops and child labor.

That's crazy...what authority does the US have to regulate businesses on foreign soil..the jobs left because we drove them away...you also say "regulations, taxes, and unions help Americans"    ha! tell that to the auto industry...tell that to the manufacturing industry..tell that to the airlines...

Quoting BAKJet (Reply 85):
But regulations taxes and unions help Americans IMO. Withouth we would still have sweatshops and child labor.

That was what a hundred plus years ago? It's 2010..If what you said was true Michigan should be the poster boy for economic prosperity.....
Our Returning Champion
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:19 am

Quoting casinterest (Reply 80):
Although it probably does help keep some jobs from going away for a bit longer.

That's fine. At this point, it's a hell of a lot better than going in to an all out depression.
Bring back the Concorde
 
dragon6172
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:52 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Additionally, I also have been a proponent of some required service in return for unemployment benefits.
Maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits. Let beneficiaries sweep streets, clean up parks and beaches, paint facilities as needed etc.
Lets make use of this pool of folks for societal benefit in return somehow.

I like this idea.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Benefits for 3 months. Max.

Going along with above, I say 6 months of benefits with no pay back requirement. I would figure that the best chance of getting work is when your work history is the most recent. Any UI past that should have some sort of "payback" required. Does not have to be much, lets say every month of benefits requires 10 hours of community service. With a maximum of 99 weeks of benefits, that means in a little less than 18 months a person would be required to provide 180 hours of service... or 1% of their time. Not unreasonable at all!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I am troubled by the premise that you and a few other members have in assuming that everyone who is out of work needs to be monitored and wants to milk the system.

I do not think they assume EVERYONE needs to be monitored. But their are enough people who DO milk the system that monitoring should be required for everyone.
Phrogs Phorever
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:03 am

Quoting dragon6172 (Reply 88):
I do not think they assume EVERYONE needs to be monitored. But their are enough people who DO milk the system that monitoring should be required for everyone.

Well considering the fact that you have to have had a job in order to qualify for UI means that these people would rather work. You can't just walk off a job and collect UI. You can't break a company policy and purposely get fired to collect UI. It has to be of no fault of your own. People on UI have to show proof that they are looking for work while receiving benefits.
Do you have any idea how many people the states would have to hire in order to monitor every UI recipient? It would be a HUGE money loss to go after a tiny minority of people that abuse the system.
As I said before, UI recipients aren't of the same ilk as those the abuse AFDC and disabilities. Those pay more money and for a longer time. That is where the abuse should be monitored and it is.
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casinterest
Posts: 10761
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:28 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 87):
That's fine. At this point, it's a hell of a lot better than going in to an all out depression

If we are in a V recovery Unemploment is good as it helps bridge some folks across the gap. If we are in a lighting strike of a recession/depression, it does no good as folks will still have nothing on the other side of the gap of Unemployment.

Unemployment insurance comes at a cost for those currently employed and the employers. So no matter what, we still need new jobs and growth. We need people hungry enough to see an nitch and fill it .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:45 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 90):
Unemployment insurance comes at a cost for those currently employed and the employers.

It's a build in cost. Their cost does not go up if they layoff someone. There have been no income tax increases to pay for UI. The government is just paying out more of what was already being paid in to. I have a job and pay taxes and I have no problem with my tax dollars going to my fellow citizens that is on their back and in need. If I was in their boat, I'd appreciate the assistance and do everything I could to find work again.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 78):
It's a possibility

I understand you were joking but do keep in mind, moving cost is very expensive. Especially when you're not working. No one in their right mind would move cross country to take a minimum wage job.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 90):
So no matter what, we still need new jobs and growth.

  

No argument there!
Bring back the Concorde
 
BAKJet
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:58 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:10 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 86):
Quoting BAKJet (Reply 85):
But regulations taxes and unions help Americans IMO. Withouth we would still have sweatshops and child labor.


That was what a hundred plus years ago? It's 2010..If what you said was true Michigan should be the poster boy for economic prosperity.....

Sweatshops and Child Labor are both alive and well in many parts of the world.... many of the parts that supply those of us in the 1st world.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24301
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 91):
There have been no income tax increases to pay for UI.

Yes there has been in a number of states.
Depending on the state, either employees, companies, or both are paying more to support the system. I call that very much a tax as it real money out of people or business pockets.

States Raise Employers’ Unemployment Taxes for 2010
http://www.shrm.org/LegalIssues/Stat...iseEmployersUnemploymentTaxes.aspx

For instance here in California we have had a 15 percent emergency UI surcharge on the books since early 2009.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 91):
Their cost does not go up if they layoff someone.

It sure can. Read the WSJ story below from a California business. They developed a "negative balance" which raised the tax burden.
Business Owners Face Higher State Unemployment Insurance Tax
http://www.benzinga.com/media/wall-s...r-state-unemployment-insurance-tax
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:33 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 93):
For instance here in California we have had a 15 percent emergency UI surcharge on the books since early 2009.

Unaware of that but do keep in mind, UI is often a more than 50% of a reduction in income for those lucky enough to receive benefits. So even with the extra 15% tax on business, it doesn't hurt them as much as the person out of work.
I think the current system in place is fine.
The ONLY thing I would change is to allow recipients to enroll in classes to help go back to school and learn the skills they need to be a viable candidate for other jobs.
Universities should offer more evening classes of courses for those fields that are in demand such as engineering and doctors. Not b.s. yoga and art classes.
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LAXintl
Posts: 24301
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:10 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):
So even with the extra 15% tax on business, it doesn't hurt them as much as the person out of work.

Its not just business, the average tax payer in many states also has to pay higher taxes to fund IU. Many states have raised employee payroll tax contribution rates, or raised base wage amount subject to IU contribution.

At the end of the day, its both business AND the average worker that have to fund ever larger dollars to keep IU accounts from being depleted.

I don't know about you, but even a 1% increase in taxes on business or general population is a real dollars being taken away, and likely felt.
So the notion that no taxes are being raised, or that IU can be paid into eternity without affected those working is simply wrong.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
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RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:39 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 95):

You seem to have zero regard for the person out of work.
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LAXintl
Posts: 24301
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:06 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 96):
You seem to have zero regard for the person out of work.

My comments in Reply 95, have nothing to do with regard for, just stating the fact that taxes and fees' have indeed increased to support IU benefits, something you claim has not happened.

Now if you want to know my regard about the larger issue, then you may reread some of my previous post, but I'll summarize it as;
1) There must be some limit on benefits. We're at 99-weeks, and payments into infinitum cannot continue.
2) There should be some form of required work in return for paid unemployment benefits. As I proposed maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
something you claim has not happened.

...and later stated that I was "unaware" of that in post #94.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
Now if you want to know my regard about the larger issue,

So again, do you have any regard for those unemployed?
All I've heard from you is contempt and punishment for those who have lost their job.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
1) There must be some limit on benefits. We're at 99-weeks,

99 weeks is the limit.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
2) There should be some form of required work in return for paid unemployment benefits. As I proposed maybe 10-hours per week for each 40-hours in unemployment benefits.

It's never going to happen so your point in moot.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24301
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Unemployment Extensions Update

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 98):
So again, do you have any regard for those unemployed?

Listen, good and bad things happen every day in life to people around the world. Sure I suppose its sad that we don't have 100% employment in the US, but then again we don't have lots of other things 100% either.

At the end of the day, I can see government providing some small and brief subsidy to those unemployed for no cause of their own, but the last thing I want to see America become is anymore of a social nanny state.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 98):
99 weeks is the limit.

For now... If Democrats could it would go even longer.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 98):
It's never going to happen so your point in moot.

I'm still free to express it, and others have chimed in to support such held views.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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