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racko
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10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:13 pm

Breaking news....apparently there was a mass panic, no more information so far.
 
aloges
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:15 pm

   horrid      
 
racko
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:18 pm

Horrid indeed...WDR has live pictures, they don't want to abort right now because they don't want to create further panic. The space there looks awfully small for 1.4 million people.
 
srbmod
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:27 pm

It's being reported on Yahoo! and some other sites:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100724/...eu/eu_germany_love_parade_deaths_1

If you do a Google Search for "Love Parade", under the "latest" results tweets from people on the scene are popping up rather quickly.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:36 pm

Good that my girlfriend and me didn't go there today!

According to the WDR are nine rescue helicopters in service. Inofficial sources are reporting at least 10 death and over 100 injured people.

Horrible!

Patrick
 
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aerdingus
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:38 pm

My god, that's just horrible.
 
racko
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:57 pm

WDR says 15 dead. 100+ injured. Apparently the Love Parade was done on a closed-off space this year...this is crazy, 2 entrants/exits for 1.4 million people...and why do it in Duisburg anyway? Berlin, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich...but Duisburg?!?!?
 
petertenthije
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:02 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 6):
Apparently the Love Parade was done on a closed-off space this year...this is crazy, 2 entrants/exits for 1.4 million people..

Not just that, but also the entrance led through a tunnel! Apparantly something happened in or near the tunnel causing a panic with nowhere to go but one direction. In the chaos a lot of people got trampled.
 
CPH-R
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:03 pm

Whoa, flashback to June 30th 2000 

It sounds crazy and a certain recipe for disaster, that people were being funneled through the same tunnel in order to enter or exit the area.
 
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falstaff
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:08 pm

What is the Love Parade? Sounds like something hippies would go to.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:10 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 6):
Apparently the Love Parade was done on a closed-off space this year...this is crazy

They just said on WDR that the area can hold a maximum of 500.000 people but 1.400.000 are there.

Also: Several people went to the police half an hour before the mass panic happened to tell them that there are way too many people on the area. But apparently did the police not do anything.

15 death and over 100 injured people just because of some morons who didn't do their planning carefully enough.   

Patrick
 
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KPDX
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 9):
What is the Love Parade? Sounds like something hippies would go to.

I was also wondering, and thought the same.

Anyways, RIP to all the people I guess..
 
Scorpio
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:17 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 9):
What is the Love Parade? Sounds like something hippies would go to.

Wikipedia is your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Parade
 
racko
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:19 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 9):
What is the Love Parade?

Giant techno party.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 10):
But apparently did the police not do anything.

Not to jump to conclusions, but this fits my experiences with the German Bereitschaftspolizei at football matches, 0 flexibility, completely ignoring the dynamics of lots of people in small spaces. I was once in a underground train station and they sprayed pepper spray into the masses because people were pushing towards them.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:33 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 13):
but this fits my experiences with the German Bereitschaftspolizei at football matches, 0 flexibility, completely ignoring the dynamics of lots of people in small spaces.

I agree completely (speaking from my experiences with the police during Bundesliga games)!

The party continues meanwhile, many people still don't know what happened in the tunnel because all mobile phone networks are completely overloaded there. But there are also more and more people leaving the area (those who know what happened), all exits are open and emergency teams have built up tents on the nearby Autobahn to provide medical help (several rescue helicopters are still waiting near these tents).

Patrick
 
aloges
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:34 pm

You'd expect them to at least mention the stampede on their website... http://www.loveparade.com/

So they're still going because they don't want to anger the ravers by cutting the music, thereby possibly causing another mass panic. But it seems weird that they'd just go on like nothing happened.
 
petertenthije
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:49 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 15):
But it seems weird that they'd just go on like nothing happened.

Not at all. If they stop the party, then you will have over a million people trying to go home. Local infrastructure can't handle that even when at full capacity. Now they are nowhere near capacity. One of two access tunnels has been closed, and the A59 autobahn has been closed as well. The A59 is now in use by emergency services: tent hospitals, landing site for several helicopters, staging post for ambulances, etc.
 
aloges
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:58 pm

I meant the video streams on the website and all the "the music is as loud as before" comments from the reporters on location. Sure it's not the most important thing to update their website at this moment, but it wouldn't take long and surely someone who isn't actually at the parade could put a message on it.
 
iliribdl
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:01 pm

RIP to those that died.  
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:14 pm

Two rescue helicopters (one from the ADAC another one probably from the German Army) just overflew our house shortly after each other, probably on the way from Duisburg to some hospital in Hagen.

Patrick
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:24 pm

What a rediculous idea to put it at an abandoned railway station and put fences around it. People leaving the area are blocking the main railway tracks so that no one can leave the site either. In Berlin there was enough space to leave the site. Not in Duisburg.

This will result into a huge legal investigation. I am wondering whether friends of mine went there, because I know some people who regularly listen to techno music...

RIP to all who have died. What a tragedy. But I really have the impression the organisation (police, organisators, city of Duisburg is totally unable to cope with the situation. Smells like bad planning, but thats easy to say when sitting in front of a computer).
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:34 pm

According to Bild.de appeared several ambulances and the fire brigade near Duisburg main station because too many people try to catch the shuttle busses (the station was closed and busses are running instead) and many of them collapsed.

• BILD-Reporter Uwe Wojtuschak: „Die Busse stoppen jetzt weit vor dem Bahnhof, doch alle strömen her. Inzwischen gibt es hier auch viele Notarzteinsätze, weil Menschen kollabieren. Die Feuerwehr ist mit mehreren Leiterwagen vorgefahren.“

Patrick
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:08 pm

Could this have happened because of groups of neo-nazis or skinheads attacking the love festival that would have created the mess?

Any idea of the presence of these groups anywhere nearby the techno fest?

Rest in Peace all victims.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Any idea of the presence of these groups anywhere nearby the techno fest?

Nothing like that happened according to people who were in the tunnel during it happened (right-wing groups are very rare in this part of Germany btw.), everyone said that it was clearly a mass-panic. Most of the people blame the police because they didn't close the entrance when more and more people arrived and the organisators in general because they used an area that can hold 500.000 people at the max and not the 1.400.000 who were there this afternoon.

The founder of the Love Parade - Dr. Motte - said earlier on TV that the organisators should be ashamed of themself, they didn't plan the event carefully enought but where only looking to make as much money as possible.

Patrick
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:51 pm

The news channel n-tv just had several people who left the area on the microphone. All of them said that there were too few police and rescue teams, they were completely overstrained with the situation. They also showed pictured where policeman reanimated people because there was no rescue team available. One girl said, that a security guard told her that there are at least 25 victims now. That must have been horrible!

Patrick
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:00 pm

I am seriously shocked how poor the organisation seems to be. I mean it is not like events with one million people are rare in germany. Especially in North Rhine Westfalia, usually the police and authorities are used to manage such big events.

Worst of all is that the loveparade takes place close to the railway tracks which are actually needed in order to reach the main station of Duisburg. With the tracks blocked, it is impossible to get people away from the railway station by train.

I am no friend of telling people what they should have done after it happened, after all we know more afterwards than before, but this time many issues actually were raised beforehand. I still did not get an answer from a friend who might have been at the love parade... I hope he is alright.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:19 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 25):
I am seriously shocked how poor the organisation seems to be. I mean it is not like events with one million people are rare in germany. Especially in North Rhine Westfalia, usually the police and authorities are used to manage such big events.

I agree completely!

Who the hell gave his OK to let the event take place on an area that can hold 500.000 people at a max. while it is well known that more than 1.000.000 people visited the Love Parade in the last few years? It is also beyond me that they used an area that was surrounded by fences and not a completely open area like it was the case at every other Love Parade before! It is a real shame that this happened today!

I am so glad that my girlfriend and me didn't go there today, who knows what had happened to us!

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 25):
I still did not get an answer from a friend who might have been at the love parade... I hope he is alright.

I hope the same!

Patrick
 
iliribdl
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:21 pm

Everything was going good, Tiesto had just played about an hour ago or so, then the tragedy happened.  
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:41 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 17):
I meant the video streams on the website

They finally changed their website:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1530/loveparadescreenshot.jpg

Patrick
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 23):

The founder of the Love Parade - Dr. Motte - said earlier on TV that the organisators should be ashamed of themself, they didn't plan the event carefully enought but where only looking to make as much money as possible.

Why the fences? Did they start charging entrance fees? (In Berlin the event was held on a major street in the middle of a big park, with access from all sides. The problem there was that the organisers declared the event as a political demonstration (by German law the state is responsible for cleaning up the mess and damage after political demonstrations, while during a commercial event it is the organiser´s responsibility). After thwo years and bills, which ran into six digit n umbers, the Berlin state government challenged the organisers (who demanded licence fees for the use of the term "Love parade" and charged participants like DJ´s with fees) went to court and the judges decided that the love parade was in fact a commercial event, where the organiser has to cover the expenses for cleaning up afterwards. Out of protest the organisers now moved their event to other cities.

Jan
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:01 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 29):

Why the fences? Did they start charging entrance fees

No, but they used an abandoned railway cargo station, with the Autobahn on one, and the railroad on the other side, with only one entrance. The Autobahn was planned as the emergency exit. The site was planned for 600.000 people, apparently, 1.4 million tried to attend.
 
TheCol
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Could this have happened because of groups of neo-nazis or skinheads attacking the love festival that would have created the mess?

More likely a bunch of meth heads had something to do with it.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:22 pm

My friend Alexandra who is working as a surgeon at the university hospital of Essen just texted me to ask what was going on at the Love Parade earlier today, she wrote that I should answer quick because she just has time for a smoke before going back to the operating room where she already spent the last four hours.

Patrick
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:40 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 31):

More likely a bunch of meth heads had something to do with it.

So you are sure there was no neo-nazis around there trying to provoke the TechnoFesters?
 
Danny
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:41 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 30):
The Autobahn was planned as the emergency exit. The site was planned for 600.000 people, apparently, 1.4 million tried to attend.

So they planned for less people than attended all parades in previous years. With one entrance. Then they thought it is possible to control 1.4 million people crowd mostly under influence of alcohol and drugs.

  
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:50 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
So you are sure there was no neo-nazis around there trying to provoke the TechnoFesters?

See my reply #23! There were no neo-nazis who provoke the ravers! And as I also wrote in the same reply: Neo-nazis are a very, very rare occurrence here in the Ruhr-Area! Sure, there are probably enough people with such an attitude living here, but they would never show that in public because they know that every second one they encounter here would spit on them or beat them up.

I have not seen or heard any update since an hour because I am watching my beloved Sportstudio right now, but I am sure - judging from what I have seen and heard - that there where simply too many people in the tunnel that leads to the party ground.

Patrick
 
TheCol
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:06 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):

I doubt anybody knows what the definite cause was, and probably never will.
 
petertenthije
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:09 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 35):
that there where simply too many people in the tunnel that leads to the party ground.

That's what I heard on Dutch television as well.

Roughly 45 minutes before the stampede several partiers already mentioned to police and officials that it was too crowded in the tunnel, and things where getting out of hand. Shortly before the stampede apparantly the police closed of the entrance to the venue.

The problem however is that they did not close the entrance before the tunnel. They closed it at the end of the tunnel, and let everyone stay inside the tunnel! With hindsight I suppose it's easy to say that's grade -A- stupid. And that's not even getting started on the wisdom of having a single entry point, leading through a tunnel, for an event known to attract over a million people!

The people in the tunnel had four problems:

1) people behind them pushing forward not knowing the area was closed;
2) The tunnel heating up from having 1000s of people in it;
3) Lack of oxygen was reported by survivors! There's only so much fresh air that can enter the tunnel.
4) No where to go. Can't go forward, there's a fence. Can't go backwards cause everyone behind you is pushing forwards. Can't go left or right, cause, well, you're in a tunnel.

The heat and lack of oxygen caused people to faint. There's footage of unconscious people being "crowd-surfed" to first aiders that stood on an embankment. Those that did not get up, or where not "crowd-surfed" away, where probably the ones trampled to death.

I have a feeling this event will become a text-book case on how not to organise large scale events.

[Edited 2010-07-24 15:11:52]
 
CPH-R
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:12 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 36):
I doubt anybody knows what the definite cause was, and probably never will.

Too many people + too little space + random panic = carnage.

It happened in Cincinatti, it happened in Minsk, it happened at Roskilde. Hell, it happened in South Africa 1½ months ago. And it happened today in Duisburg.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:16 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 37):
The heat and lack of oxygen caused people to faint. There's footage of unconscious people being "crowd-surfed" to first aiders that stood on an embankment. Those that did not get up, or where not "crowd-surfed" away, where probably the ones trampled to death.

My friend who is currently on duty in a hospital in Essen also wrote me per SMS that they had severe back injuries, some people apparently climbed up a wall and felt down.
 
thomil13FRA
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:17 pm

German media have now updated the number of casualties. According to them, there are now 18 fatalities and 120 injured. The Situation is still chaotic, though.

Also, according to German news websites, some people tried to avoid the tunnel by climbing up blocked escape stairs and scaffolds. Some of hte climbers fell back into the crowd, which apparently caused the mass panic.
 
LH526
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:48 pm

RIP all those who have died in this tragi event!

1.: Love Parade is not what it used to be. Back then it was a "real" protest walk of a sub culture, today it's nothing more than an open air festival for kiddies under the brand name "Loveparade" as spirit that has long vanished since.

2.: It's the f****ng duty of the organisation team to take care and plan ahead of streams of people, movements, infrastructure planing etc ... they failed miseraly wich led to the death of more than a dozen people ... that's negligence at it's best ... and possible manslaughter! It's not the police's duty to deal with the lapse of the Loveparade team, they are there to protect and to serve, that's what they did, and as the LP team didn't do their homework beforehand, they should spend a considerably amount of time in jail!
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:31 pm

I just received an SMS from a friend who attended the loveparade. Fortunately he wrote that he is alright, he was nowhere close to where it happened.

The worst thing is that it seems to be clear that the infrastructure cannot cope with the people trying to leave the area, either. So with other words, they continued the party so that not all decided to leave at the same time.

What a tragedy. Reminds me of Roskilde 2000.
 
NoUFO
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:50 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
So you are sure there was no neo-nazis around there trying to provoke the TechnoFesters?

Guess what - even in Germany Nazis are rare occurrence, and if you spot some than certainly not at a love parade with thousands of ravers and hundreds of policemen. Frankly, had this happen in say: The Netherlands or Denmark, you wouldn't even have thought of asking this question - let alone twice, right?

Back to the topic: No matter how good the organization, a stampede can always occur if thousands of people are standing close to each other, be it a gig, a football game, pilgrimage or whatever. Try evacuating thousands of people who had consumed some alcohol and perhaps some fancy pills and see that the death remains close to zero. Good luck.
Even if this was still Berlin's Tiergarten Park with plenty of room to escape, some people would have overrun others and possibly killed them.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 42):
, they continued the party so that not all decided to leave at the same time.

Which hints that they did spent some thoughts on how to cope with a stampede or similar beforehand.
 
aero145
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:10 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 32):
before going back to the operating room where she already spent the last four hours.

Dayyum, poor girl. How is the situation at the hospital?
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4724
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:04 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Which hints that they did spent some thoughts on how to cope with a stampede or similar beforehand.

I am not sure. It seems more that the police asked the organsator to continue in order to avoid the exit and the railway station being flooded with people.

Fortunately it seems there were no more issues later on so that all people came home safely.
 
racko
Topic Author
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:17 am

16 victims identified so far, 12 Germans, 1 Dutchman, 1 Italian, 1 Australian, 1 Chinese.

The mayor of Duisburg is a real winner...born 1955, named Adolf, and "we can't come to conclusions right now, but it wasn't our fault".
 
TheSonntag
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:21 am

This will be a nasty investigation. From a legal point of view, there are many people which in the end could be held responsible:

1. Mayor 2. Police 3. Security in the tunnel 4. Organisation.

While it certainly does not look good what the mayor is saying, I can understand him. After all he is also subject to the criminal investigation taking place.

The organisator said, it was the last loveparade ever.
 
aloges
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:26 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 45):
Fortunately it seems there were no more issues later on so that all people came home safely.

Not exactly... http://www.wdr.de/mediathek/html/reg...ueck.xml?offset=1805&autoPlay=true

Quoting racko (Reply 46):
The mayor of Duisburg is a real winner...born 1955, named Adolf, and "we can't come to conclusions right now, but it wasn't our fault".

According to several reports, he said, "people have fallen to their deaths because they tried to climb barricades". What he doesn't seem to realise is why they tried to.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: 10 Dead, 30+ Injured At Love Parade

Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:33 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
So you are sure there was no neo-nazis around there trying to provoke the TechnoFesters?


One can safely assume that there were no disturbing elements present.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10753448

Apparently there was a single entrance through a tunnel. Totally irresponsible.

Commiserations to all those affected by this disaster.

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