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futurepilot16
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GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 pm

Hmmmm    , I thought those bailouts didn't work. Maybe we should have let them fail and let thousands of people lose their job in true "capitalism" form like others suggested.

Other than the obvious bailout of GM by the fed, what is the reason for GM's turnaround? Personally, I hate GM cars because I think they're all crap. Did the Government's "Witch hunt" of Toyota contribute to GM's success. Toyota's misfortune in the last year or so had to have helped because GM showed stronger sales in overseas markets led by CHINA  , where Japanese car makers usually dominate that market.

Is GM now a success story for other American corporations to follow, or is their large profit just lucky and nothing to happy about?

Some of the numbers:
$1.3 Billion second quarter net earnings, compared to $865 Million first quarter earning.
47% surge in Global production since a year earlier.
Revenue rose to $33.2 billion from $31.5 billion in the first quarter.

Also good news for people who don't like the "socialist" values of this company  
Quote:
Sources told Reuters on Wednesday that the largest U.S. automaker had secured a $5 billion credit facility, marking its return to the capital markets a year after it emerged from a government-funded landmark bankruptcy.

The credit facility was a last hurdle toward filing for an initial public offering of stock that allows the U.S. Treasury to reduce its nearly 61 percent stake in GM — and the automaker to begin to shed its "Government Motors" label.

Let's hope for continued prosperity for GM (despite my hatred for their vehicles) and hope other companies can follow suit, so they can all pay us back our bailout money.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38672838/ns/business-autos/
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
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LAXintl
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:14 pm

It helps that the company dumped $122Billion in debt, told bond holders to take a massive 90% hair cut, got new labor deals, and received $50Billion in sweetheart government cash during Ch11.

I call the whole episode shameful oversteping by Government.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Okie
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
It helps that the company dumped $122Billion in debt, told bond holders to take a massive 90% hair cut, got new labor deals, and received $50Billion


I think the number is $84Billion. Irregardless at the rate they are going GM should finally have their heads above water in another 10 years.

Okie
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:36 pm

Well the higher than expected sales of the Camaro, are a large part of this. But I have to agree with the OP, the vast majority of these vehicles are such crap! I have to wonder if some of the sales can be attributed to cash strapped families buying their car based on lower cost, rather than higher quality?
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sv7887
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:26 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Is GM now a success story for other American corporations
to follow, or is their large profit just lucky and nothing to happy about?

If there is a success story in the US Auto industry, it's Ford. No bailouts, just good business planning, competent leadership and class leading products. Their Sync system is better than what's in my 60K Mercedes. Quality is top notch.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Hmmmm , I thought those bailouts didn't work. Maybe we should have let them fail and let thousands of people lose their job in true "capitalism" form like others suggested.

They haven't repaid the bailout money yet and the US Government is on record as saying they don't think they'll get all their money back. Given their new cost structure, smaller size, and lack of debt, it's hard to see how they couldn't make a profit. That said, I think GM will be profitable long term. Their new product lines are very good.

GM is a special case because they had already started to restructure and put emphasis on building better cars. Their cost structure was killing them along with the numerous brands and infighting amongst the management of the various divisions. The new Buick LaCrosse, Regal, and Enclave are evidence of this. That's why the bailout made sense in this case, because they already were building much better cars and just needed turnaround capital.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
ther than the obvious bailout of GM by the fed, what is the reason for GM's turnaround? Personally, I hate GM cars because I think they're all crap. Did the Government's "Witch hunt" of Toyota
contribute to GM's success. Toyota's misfortune in the last year or so had to have helped because GM showed stronger sales in overseas markets led by CHINA , where Japanese car makers usually dominate that market.

Better vehicles pure and simple. GM's new products are quite good and quality has been way up from the past few years. The new Buicks are just excellent all round. Cadillac still suffers from having largely a one hit wonder, the CTS, and not much else to support it. Chevy is getting a bunch of new cars very soon. GMC has always been profitable for GM, so I don't see any changes needed there. You can see this in their residuals. GM is a lot less dependent on massive incentives to move their cars.

The problem GM has is their corporate culture. They are just resistant to change, slow to react to the market, and there is too much corporate infighting. I say this as someone who consulted in the industry in my last job. I don't think the bankruptcy has changed that enough, but their outgoing Chairman and CEO Ed Whitacre has done his best to focus on the product.

Also I don't see the investment at the dealer level. If you're trying to sell a 50K Cadillac and compete with a Lexus or Mercedes, you can't have a dealership stuck in the 1970s.

I think the Toyota recalls have definitely helped. Toyota quality has been going down for some time now, it's plainly obvious when you sit in a new Corolla and compare it in a '98 model. The Koreans (Hyundai) and the revitalized domestic automakers are going to give them hell.
 
swissy
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:26 pm

Means nothing just lets wait and see and lets not forget how many people (economical/spending) they destroyed, would not put too much into it....

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
If there is a success story in the US Auto industry, it's Ford.

Could not agree more and I am still pi... that I did not invest some of our funds with Ford.....now if they have produce a vehicle I could use... I would get rid of my GLK... 

GM & Chrysler??? Thank you but no thank you 

Cheerios,
 
windy95
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:06 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
It helps that the company dumped $122Billion in debt, told bond holders to take a massive 90% hair cut, got new labor deals, and received $50Billion in sweetheart government cash during Ch11.

I call the whole episode shameful oversteping by Government

Correct. Should of let them die. Other makers would haved filled in the gaps. We the people will still never get all of our money back. More pandering to the Union voters. Have to pay them back somehow.
 
EA772LR
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:11 pm

I'll never buy a GM again because of how they handled their 'selected' dealerships. They ruined a lot of peoples livelihood and they did it in a smug way. Not to mention, how is that Ford has managed to do so well despite not taking billions of our dollars? I could care less if GM succeeds or not.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
Ken777
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I call the whole episode shameful oversteping by Government.

And the liquidation of GM at that time would have pushed us deeper. A true depression was possible at the rate we were heading down when you consider that the Great Recession was the closest we have been since the Great Depression.

This becomes even more important when you are reading that we went down so far in this Great Recession that it is possible to have a double dip. Far higher risk than lighter recessions we have had in the past.

In terms of the lesser of the two evils Obama made the right choice.

And you'll notice that Bush kept them going until Obama could be sworn in and make that unpopular decision.

Personally I'm glad Obama made that choice, but them I supported Iacocca's bailout at Chrysler. Look at how many man years of employment (and tax revenues) that generated.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
Cadillac still suffers from having largely a one hit wonder, the CTS, and not much else to support it.

It is stupid that GM/Caddy cannot deliver the DeVille line at a high quality, very competitive level. Thought it was queer when they changed the name from a very well known brand to bloody initials. Might have well been named the "WTF". If the car is basically sold to old people (who have deteriorating memories) then keep the name we can remember!

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
Also I don't see the investment at the dealer level. If you're trying to sell a 50K Cadillac and compete with a Lexus or Mercedes, you can't have a dealership stuck in the 1970s.

Our Caddy dealer has spent some big money refurbishing their property and it is up to date. Their ability to compete will be based on the products they can sell and dropping the "WTF" line will hurt them.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
it's plainly obvious when you sit in a new Corolla and compare it in a '98 model.

Try comparing the '98 to the '90 and you really get sick. My first Corolla was a '71 and I was sold on the line until they took out costs (and quality) in the mid 90's. Look for the drop in MSRP during those years to spot when they took out the top quality.

Quote:
General Motors Co GM.UL may delay its filing for an initial public offering to early next week from the initial target date of Friday after the unexpected departure of Chief Executive Ed Whitacre, a source familiar with the situation said on Thursday.
Quote:
The U.S. Treasury, which has a 61 percent stake in GM after its $50 billion taxpayer-funded bailout, is considering selling its stake in several pieces over the next two to three years, the source said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67B4JW20100812

Maybe the taxpayers can be allowed to buy some of the government owned shares. Set up a block in the 1040 to allow those making $250K a year or less to buy each year through the IRS. Limit the amount so we can get 3 to 5 years out of the program.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:29 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Maybe we should have let them fail and let thousands of people lose their job in true "capitalism" form like others suggested.

That's exactly what we should have done.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Other than the obvious bailout of GM by the fed, what is the reason for GM's turnaround?

They cleaned up their act, but they did it with government money.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Toyota's misfortune in the last year or so had to have helped because GM showed stronger sales in overseas markets led by CHINA 

Actually, it was probably because GM is smart enough to work in the Chinese market and Chinese people love Buicks for some reason.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
got new labor deals

Labor getting out of control is part of what got them into that mess in the first place.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
But I have to agree with the OP, the vast majority of these vehicles are such crap!

And that is the other part of what got them into this mess in the first place.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
If there is a success story in the US Auto industry, it's Ford. No bailouts, just good business planning, competent leadership and class leading products.

   The good companies get through recessions without failing.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
If the car is basically sold to old people (who have deteriorating memories) then keep the name we can remember!

Cadillac was largely skating through on reputation before the Escalade, and they have started to turn it around a bit, but still have a lot of work to do.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
futurepilot16
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:18 pm

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
If there is a success story in the US Auto industry, it's Ford. No bailouts, just good business planning, competent leadership and class leading products. Their Sync system is better than what's in my 60K Mercedes. Quality is top notch.

I know, ford is really good. I was just hoping that GM would be a something that other companies who were in trouble, could look at and follow their business approach

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
They cleaned up their act, but they did it with government money.

As much as I agree, gov't money alone didn't do all this, it took some different business strategy on the CEO's part.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
Chinese people love Buicks for some reason.

Probably because they take it and laugh at how inferior a buick is to an Asian made car.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 6):
Correct. Should of let them die. Other makers would haved filled in the gaps. We the people will still never get all of our money back. More pandering to the Union voters. Have to pay them back somehow.

Whenever I see this I always respond by saying that the fifty billion dollars we would have saved in order to let GM die, would have gone to unemployment and welfare to all those workers who would have lost their jobs in the first place. We certainly wouldn't have gotten that money back.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Okie
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
In terms of the lesser of the two evils Obama made the right choice.


No at $1,400,000.00 per employee at tax payer expense, maybe you think that was a good investment, Okie does not.
They should have taken bankruptcy and would have to answer to their bond holders and stock owners instead of having a new board of directors of 535 from the legislative branch of government.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
And the liquidation of GM at that time would have pushed us deeper


GM was not filing for liquidation only looking for reorganization.
And today it appears that the top brass gets to walk the plank because of bucking the Obama administration. So for all intents and purpose Government Motors will operate as efficiently as the DMV or Postal Service. They also pulled back the idea of an IPO to sell stock in the new Government Motors, which I am not sure that would get many investors as the shareholders would have to buck the 535 member board of directors.

Okie
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:26 pm

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 4):
If there is a success story in the US Auto industry, it's Ford.

Correct. BTW, for 2009 and 2010 (so far) Ford has outsold Government Motors.

GM did pay back some of their 2009 government loan a few months ago......with money from another government loan......
 
waterpolodan
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:43 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 10):

Probably because they take it and laugh at how inferior a buick is to an Asian made car.

Strangely, they actually like Buicks and consider them luxury items. It's sort of like how you'll see Budweiser as a fancy import beer in many other countries and people pay more for a Bud than "cheap" domestic brews that are far better, can't account for taste...
 
BMI727
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:27 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 10):
Probably because they take it and laugh at how inferior a buick is to an Asian made car

That wasn't sarcasm, Chinese people really do love Buicks. I don't see it myself, but the brand is very popular over there.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 10):
would have gone to unemployment and welfare to all those workers who would have lost their jobs in the first place.

Those programs are a mess of their own, but there is a dangerous precedent where companies can do as they please and count on the government to bail them out when they screw up.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Ken777
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:41 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
That's exactly what we should have done.

I'm assuming that you would be happy to pay the increased taxes that would have developed out of that. Lost wages, lots of unemployment payments, more home foreclosures, more food stamps, more Medicare, etc. ASt some point it comes out of your wallet too.

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
No at $1,400,000.00 per employee at tax payer expense, maybe you think that was a good investment, Okie does not.

Adjust that number to the final costs when all loans, interest and stock sales are included. We simply can't tell by today's numbers. Just like we could not tell how big a disaster the Iraq Invasion for WMDs would turn out.

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
GM was not filing for liquidation only looking for reorganization.

As soon as they filed for re-organization they were at risk of creditors moving them into liquidation. The battles would have been long term, with car sales taking an even bigger dive.

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
And today it appears that the top brass gets to walk the plank because of bucking the Obama administration.

Or walk the plank for moving the company so far down. They made the big bucks, but didn't deliver the big performances to justify it.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 10):
Probably because they take it and laugh at how inferior a buick is to an Asian made car.

Look at the quality that Toyota has taken out of their cars over the years to puff the Lexus line and you won't be laughing that much at Buick.
 
BMI727
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:47 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
I'm assuming that you would be happy to pay the increased taxes that would have developed out of that. Lost wages, lots of unemployment payments, more home foreclosures, more food stamps, more Medicare, etc. ASt some point it comes out of your wallet too.

That's why they have to keep all of those programs under control too. Food stamps generate no return on investment. Luckily it looks like GM may pay off, but there are things that the government should and should not do. Investing in car companies falls into the latter.

Where does it stop? What other companies could be on the list for government investment? How about we just throw the free market away and all become socialist?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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OA412
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:53 pm

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 13):
Strangely, they actually like Buicks and consider them luxury items.

In fact, I believe that Buicks are considered a bit of a status symbol in China. As I recall, GM actually sells more Buicks in China than they do in the US.

Quoting waterpolodan (Reply 13):
It's sort of like how you'll see Budweiser as a fancy import beer in many other countries and people pay more for a Bud than "cheap" domestic brews that are far better, can't account for taste...

I know that that's true, but I still can't wrap my brain around it. Like you said, there's no accounting for taste.
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LAXintl
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:55 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
And the liquidation of GM at that time would have pushed us deeper.

Let the chips fall where they should have.
GM is a big boy and could try its hand at a traditional Ch11 like every other troubled company.

Simply put, to me the governments job is not to walk behind its weak and crippled with bag fulls of billions in cash while strong arming other parties like the bond holders. A very dirty game they played.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Okie
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:39 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
I'm assuming that you would be happy to pay the increased taxes that would have developed out of that. Lost wages, lots of unemployment payments, more home foreclosures, more food stamps, more Medicare, etc. ASt some point it comes out of your wallet too.


At $1,400,000.00 an employee out of our wallet now working or not, so please come up with some logic to explain that cost. Right now it is not passing the smell test.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
GM is a big boy and could try its hand at a traditional Ch11 like every other troubled company


Exactly, and we probably would be talking about a corporation actually making money at this point with the same amount of workforce they have now instead of a government controlled entity owing the taxpayer $86Billion.

Okie
 
sv7887
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:36 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
Look at the quality that Toyota has taken out of their cars over the years to puff the Lexus line and you won't be laughing that much at Buick.

The sad thing is that you're seeing the Lexus line be decontented too. Look at a 02-06 ES interior versus the new one. There's hardly any wood trim and the dash and other interior pieces feel so cheap. I sat in a LS460 the other day and was surprised at how cheap it felt in certain places in the cabin. My dad's old 92 LS400 was built so much better. The Lexus dealers were much better in the 1990s, now they just have this smug arrogance like they are doing you a favor by even talking to you. Similar to the Mercedes dealers before they got humbled by the junk Benz was building from 1995-2007.

My first car was a 1995 Tercel and was practically bomb proof. Just a great little car for the money.

My 2006 Corolla was just a turd. Things rattled, the CD player skipped and it didn't even have side airbags standard. Two months ago I was contemplating getting something more economical, so I went to look at the Camry. It felt cheap inside and the guys actually refused to negotiate!

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
In fact, I believe that Buicks are considered a bit of a status symbol in China. As I recall, GM actually sells more Buicks in China than they do in the US.

That's quite true. Buick is a hit in China and was the reason GM didn't axe the nameplate. You should see pictures of the Chinese Park Avenue. The new Buick LaCrosee and Regal (Europeans will recognize it as an Opel Insignia) are excellent cars. The LaCrosse has been rated better than the Lexus ES which is quite a feat given where Buick was just a few years ago.
 
cpd
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:32 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 3):
Well the higher than expected sales of the Camaro

More of that kind of product and less of the boring Toyota clones and GM will be doing much better.
 
United Airline
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:33 am

Which is the biggest Cadillac model?
 
MD-90
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:38 am

The CTS-V is a pretty badass car, in sedan or coupe form.
 
EA772LR
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:12 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 23):
The CTS-V is a pretty badass car, in sedan or coupe form.

Check out the new Motor Trend shoot out between the CTS-V Coupe, the A5S, and the M3. The M3 walked away from the other two. I agree though, the CTS-V is a mean car. I just think everything Cadillac makes looks cheap and gaudy. My ex-girl friend had a 2005 (IIRC) CTS, and that thing was a POS. I then drove my friends 2004 BMW 328i and that was hands down a much finer car, inside and out. I know that's not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I was really unimpressed with the CTS. Just felt and looked like a cheap car trying to be a premium car.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
Flighty
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:35 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 24):
I just think everything Cadillac makes looks cheap and gaudy.

Sadly I think almost all car brands have styling problems. Have you seen the new BMW 5 series...    It looks like a Cutlass Ciera from about 1994. It's like they are trying to make the blandest possible non-BMW looking car.

Mercedes is looking good these days. Audis look like they did 10 years ago, only far uglier (A6...)

And yes, Cadillac looks like something is very wrong. their 1993 Eldorado and STS were looking very good. They should be making Fleetwoods today, but... they don't wish to sell real Cadillacs because apparently GM does not like Cadillac. It seems odd but what else can it be.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:46 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 22):
Which is the biggest Cadillac model?

In terms of overall size (and NOT counting the Escalade SUVs and trucks), the FWD DTS (formerly DeVille) and RWD STS sedans are Cadillacs largest car models for 2010. For 2011, the DTS sedan is being replaced with a smaller model (XTS (?)) and I believe that the STS will also be discontinued as well.

Quoting sv7887 (Reply 20):
That's quite true. Buick is a hit in China and was the reason GM didn't axe the nameplate.

   Very true. Had it not been for the Chinese market, Pontiac (which I believe sold more models in the U.S. than Buick) would've probably survived.

It's also interesting that all the Buick models sold in China use the older, more familiar (to the U.S.) names like Park Avenue, Riviera & Regal; the latter nameplate makes a return to the States for 2011. In contrast, Buick seemed heck-bent on terminating all the long-running and familiar nameplates when they redesigned their cars during the last decade.

In their view, GM had to kill off one of them (Buick or Pontiac); but the decision either way would have some consequences. Killing off Buick would have meant walking away from a more profitable market (China) whereas killing off Pontiac meant discontinuing some good-selling but cheaper models (Vibe and G6) that, for the most part (except for the Vibe, Solstace and G8) already existed elsewhere in GM's (mostly Chevy's) line-up.

Worth noting: killing off the Pontiac G8 placed GM in breach of an earlier agreement they had with Holden to sell X number of cars in the U.S. GM is rectifying that (and avoiding some damage to its CAFE fleet) with its tentative launch (to the fleet/police market only) of the Holden-based Caprice sedan for 2011.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
It is stupid that GM/Caddy cannot deliver the DeVille line at a high quality, very competitive level. Thought it was queer when they changed the name from a very well known brand to bloody initials.

I wasn't completely thrilled about Cadillac changing their model names either (Lincoln's now doing similar as well); BUT, to their credit, they did the change a little more gradual and there's some small hint of a connection with at least the first letter of the model-name's initials.

First and foremost, unlike Buick, the name changes (except for maybe the (dare I say it) Catera/CTS) did NOT take place at the same time as a major restyle. This allowed people to get familiar with the new naming convention as it related to each respective model.

Second, as earlier stated, the first letter of the 3 stood for the previous name: DTS for Deville, STS for Seville (the STS and SLS designations were originally trim-level suffixes) and CTS for Catera. Worth noting: unlike the former-mentioned two models, the Catera-CTS transition involved a one-year gap (Catera gone after 2001 and the all-new CTS debuting in 2003). Nonetheless, one familiar w/Cadillac's earlier model names still had SOME sort of connection with the newer model names. For 2011, it appears that the previously-gradual transition has now gone out the window with the new XTS sedan replacing the 2010 DTS sedan.

Buick, OTHO, renamed EVERY one of their models that underwent a redesign midway through the previous decade. The long-running Century/Regal were both replaced with an all-new LaCrosse (which had to use a different name (Allure) in Canada because in French, the word was slang for somethng of a sexual nature). Both the Park Avenue and long-running (since 1959) LeSabre were replaced with an all-new sedan called Lucerne; which is being discontinued for 2011 BTW. Even the Rendezvous (one of the first of the so-called CUVs) was replaced with an all-new model called the Enclave.

That type of quick, across-the-board renaming/redesigning convention ultimately led to a complete disconnect within the division and probably caused some confusion among past Buick buyers who were seeking newer models. On the other end of the buyer spectrum, its mission of enticing newer (and younger) buyers wasn't as successful as originally hoped or planned. So Buick, in The States, got hit saleswise on both ends of the buyer spectrum IMHO as a result of their approach to renaming every vehicle.

Thread Title: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

It's worth noting that in 2004, all Buicks were still using their older names and the only Cadillacs using the 3-letter initials were the CTS (which rolled out for 2003) and the SRX cross-over made it debut. All other Caddies still used their older, more familiar names.

[Edited 2010-08-13 08:58:36]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:33 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 26):
That type of quick, across-the-board renaming/redesigning convention ultimately led to a complete disconnect within the division and probably caused some confusion among past Buick buyers who were seeking newer models

Do ya think?         

I was a complete car nut and now can't tell you what Buick or Lincoln sell (or why).

We can be sure that the general public has no idea what Buick or Lincoln brands mean anymore (plus Cadillac). The brand managers wanted a clean slate. So, here we are. The problem with a clean slate is, you compete right against the imports, only they are for real, and you're only pretending you are them. Since you threw away what you had before, you are left only with new car models. But the car market is conservative and new name models rarely sell well. The ONE example of a good seller with a new name is Ford Fusion. Focus also did well, in the early 2000s. Any others?

But mostly, the Civic, Accord, Sonata nameplates have decades of build behind them. As did Town Car... Oh wait...
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: GM Posts Largest Quarterly Profit Since 2004

Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:50 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
But the car market is conservative and new name models rarely sell well. The ONE example of a good seller with a new name is Ford Fusion. Focus also did well, in the early 2000s. Any others?

Among newer domestic models (2000-2010):

Chevy Cobalt (at least early on)
Chevy HHR
Chrysler PT Cruiser (this was originally supposed to be a Plymouth model)
Chrysler Sebring (although the latest generation (2008+) has been an all-out sales bomb plus its very ugly)
Pontiac G6, (which laid the groundwork for the 2008-current Chevy Malibu)
Ford Escape
Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX
Buick Rendezvous (which kicked its ugly Pontiac Aztec cousin in the dirt saleswise)
Buick Enclave (though it laid the groundwork for the Chevy Traverse, I still see more of the Buick model than I do of the Chevy and GMC Arcadia).

If one looks before the year 2000, there were plently of domestic new model/new name that had successful launches; those examples include (and this is certainly no exhaustive list, so I might miss a few):

1960 Ford Falcon
1960 Chevy Corvair (though it would encounter controversy some time later)
1963 Chevy II (Nova)
1963 Buick Riviera
1963 Jeep Wagoneer
1964 Chevy Chevelle (Malibu)/Pontiac Tempest/Lemans/Oldsmobile F-85/Cutlass
1964-1/2 Ford Mustang
1965 Chevy Caprice
1966 Oldsmobile Tornado
1967 Chevy Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
1967 Ford Bronco
1970 Chevy Monte Carlo
1970 Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Barracuda
1970 Ford Maverick
1971 Ford Pinto (despite the gas tank controversy it would later face)
1971 Chevy Vega/Pontiac Astre (cars would later have issues)
1973 Buick Century/Regal
1975 Chevy Chevette
1975 Chrysler Cordoba
1975 Ford Granada/Mercury Monarch
1976 Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare
1976 Cadillac Seville
1977 Chrysler LeBaron/Dodge Diplomat
1978 Ford Fairmont
1978 Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon
1980 Chevy Citation (good sales start but it and its siblings would get mired in recall controversy)
1981 Dodge Aries/Plymouth Reliant (aka the K-car)
1981 Ford Escort/Mercury Lynx
1982 Chevy Cavalier
1982 Chevy Celebrity
1984 Dodge Caravan
1984 Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz (yeah, these models would have issues; but they still sold well)
1985 Chevy Astro
1985 Ford Aerostar
1986 Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
1990 Chevy Lumina
1991 Ford Explorer (note: Ford did use the Explorer name earlier for a trim-level for its F-series trucks)
1993 Chrysler Concorde/Dodge Intrepid/Eagle Vision
1995 Chrysler Cirrus/Dodge Stratus
1995 Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique
1997 Ford Expedition
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981

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