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falstaff
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:06 pm

Quoting flanker (Reply 49):
It has a better burn


No it doesn't. It is less volatile so it resists burning so it can be compressed tighter before the sparkplug ignites it. Flighty is likely needing higher octane fuel in his lower compression ratio (not compression in general, but compression ratio) engine because of high amounts of carbon in his combustion chamber. The high amount of carbon has increased his ratio. This is probably due to the carb problems he is describing. One of issues sounds like a rich mixture/choke condition which will cause excessive hydrocarbons out the exhaust and carbon build up. It can get bad enough that a valve or two can stick open making the problem worse. These are problems most drivers haven't thought about in years because we all got used to our fuel injected cars. To the professional technician who still sees carbureted engines this is something that comes up. Marine Mechanics in freshwater areas (older boats are very common) see it more often. Get a carburetor out of adjustment and you will be amazed how crappy an engine will run. Speaking from experience I meet a lot of people who think they can make a carb work good. They actually have no idea what they are doing, they just adjust the mixture and idle screws and make things worse.
 
Flighty
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:11 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 50):
Marine Mechanics in freshwater areas (older boats are very common) see it more often.

Ding. This boat is 17 years old and that's a young boat around here. It has low hours but there could easily be some buildup / sludge. So that increases the compression, eh....    interesting, thanks falstaff.

It overall runs pretty well. It is a Mercruiser. Just got a prop for it, 14x23!!  
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:16 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 36):
Which car, may I ask? Many engines produce only a little bit of extra power with 98 instead of 95, and some manufacturer recommendations reflect that. And with the phase-out of regular 91, Aral is also getting rid of Ultimate 100 and, as the thread starter has mentioned, is (re)introducing 98 Super Plus and Ultimate 102.

It's a BMW 528 iA (MY 2000).
 
flanker
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:17 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 50):
No it doesn't. It is less volatile so it resists burning so it can be compressed tighter before the sparkplug ignites it

I understand what you're saying, but I have always been under the impression from what I have read that higher octanes have a resistance to heat and at higher pressures and temps it will burn more efficiently allowing for more potential energy to be released.
 
N1120A
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:27 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 47):
I have no idea if that affects whether or not 93 is offered here.

I remember that it used to be 92. I too wonder if the oxygenation requirements change this.

Quoting A342 (Reply 46):
No 93+ octane fuel available over there?!?

Having said that, like most high-performance cars, it can also run on 91 octane gas, but will not produce full power.

Remember, we have a different system. 91 = 95 in Germany (and Europe generally).

Quoting falstaff (Reply 45):
Another thing on the octane rating in the USA. In higher altitudes you will have different requirements. In high altitude areas 85 octane will be an ok substitue for 87 octane. You will see 85 in a high altitude area, but will not see it in a place like St. Louis.

Hence you will sometimes see 90 instead of 91/92/93.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
I remember that it used to be 92.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
91 = 95 in Germany (and Europe generally).
Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
90 instead of 91/92/93.

So let me ask you a stupid question: Why the fuck is there no worldwide standart? Is that too fucking hard to invent?

I'll buy a bus ticket tomorrow, no worries with gas types anymore!  

Patrick
 
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falstaff
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:47 pm

Quoting flanker (Reply 53):
I understand what you're saying, but I have always been under the impression from what I have read that higher octanes have a resistance to heat and at higher pressures and temps it will burn more efficiently allowing for more potential energy to be released.


That is true, but it only burns better in a higher compression engine, using high octane gas in an engine that doesn't need it it will not burn any better.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 51):
sludge


probably not sludge. Sludge is a oil related issue, usually caused by not changing it or a crank case ventilation issue (Toyota had a problem with that a few years ago). Sludge shows up in the lubrication system. Carbon shoes up in the intake and induction system. There are tricks to get rid of sludge, like there are tricks to get rid of carbon deposits.
 
N1120A
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:51 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 55):

So let me ask you a stupid question: Why the fuck is there no worldwide standart? Is that too fucking hard to invent?

Its just a different version of a similar equation. I didn't invent the rules.  
 
A342
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 54):
Remember, we have a different system. 91 = 95 in Germany (and Europe generally).

I know, that's why I largely used the American system in my post.

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 52):
It's a BMW 528 iA (MY 2000).

Not worth buying Super Plus, IMHO. The compression ratio is low enough to work fine with Super.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:43 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 36):
Again, may I ask which type?

I use only two companies. BP Ultimate & Gull (a local company) Force 10 (10% BioEthanol). I drive a Renaultsport Clio 172 and the factory recommends 98. The Shell V power in this country is not so good.
 
chrisair
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:52 am

There's a place here in Tucson that sells 104 octane "racing gas." I've always been tempted to run my car dry and stick a tank of that in and see what happens. I can't quite bring myself to do it with the $5.10/gal price though...

I also remember filling a rental car up in Wyoming with 85 octane and taking it back into SLC. I saved $0.10/gal over regular prices in SLC and the car knocked around SLC. 
 
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falstaff
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:13 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 60):
There's a place here in Tucson that sells 104 octane "racing gas." I've always been tempted to run my car dry and stick a tank of that in and see what happens

If you have a fuel injected car you will destroy the O2 sensors with the lead and it will end up running worse. I have fixed that problem a dozen times or so on teenagers cars. The high octane won't do anything special unless you have a high compression engine. I have run racing gas in some of my old engines just to run leaded gas through them again and they run the same as always no added performance.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:04 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 61):
If you have a fuel injected car

At least in the U.S., just about every car 1993 vintage and newer is equipped w/fuel enjected engines. Unless Chrisair and/or others are driving something older using leaded racing gas on today's cars is indeed a detriment, not a benefit.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 48):
If you want 100 and 110 leaded racing fuel (off road use only you can find that at some stations.
Some stations; more like Few and Far Beteen stations... especially since leaded gas has been out of the mass market for just about 2 decades.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 48):
Don't use leaded gas in a fuel injected engine as the lead will kill your O2 sensors.

Other than that racing fuel example you gave; most people couldn't find leaded gas throughout the U.S. if they tried. 15 to 20 years ago, maybe; less likely today.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:20 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 62):
just about every car 1993 vintage and newer is equipped w/fuel enjected engines

The last car sold new in the USA without fuel injection was a 1991 Dihatsu (spelling?) Charade. That was even an oddity among those junkers as most of them were EFI, throttle body I think. I think the last time I saw a Dihatsu in the USA was 1992... I believe the last American car without fuel injection was a 90 Cadillac Brougham, with the 5 liter (a Olds 307, not a Chevy 305). I get people who want to argue this all the time becuase they think their Chevy truck from the 90s was carburated. When I say it was throttle body injected they sometimes say "that is the same as a carbureator or no I'm pretty sure it was a carbureator". When I ask whey they think that they tell you because the airfilter was round.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 62):
especially since leaded gas has been out of the mass market for just about 2 decades.

Leaded gas is only sold for the "off road" market. Availibility probably changes depending on the market. In the south Detroit suburbs there is a lot of racing cars so you can find it easily. The last time I saw leaded gas at a pump for road use was in Warrensburg, Missouri in 1994.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:28 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 63):
The last car sold new in the USA without fuel injection was a 1991 Dihatsu (spelling?) Charade.

I thought the 1992 Jeep Grand Wagoneer was the last new vehicle sold in the U.S. without a fuel injected engine. I have an old issue of Collectible Automobile magazine that had an article covering the '63-'92 Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer at home. That might list that tid-bit; I'll double-check.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 63):
I believe the last American car without fuel injection was a 90 Cadillac Brougham, with the 5 liter (a Olds 307, not a Chevy 305).

I thought that the Olds 307 was still around a year or two later ('91 or '92). I have a couple of old broucheres laying around at home; I'll double-check.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:54 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 64):
I thought the 1992 Jeep Grand Wagoneer was the last new vehicle sold in the U.S. without a fuel injected engine.

I think that is the case. I was referring to cars, not trucks. I am going off the text book that I teach out of. Modern Automotive Technology. Trucks always were a few years later on technology than cars, at least back then.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 64):

I thought that the Olds 307 was still around a year or two later ('91 or '92). I have a couple of old broucheres laying around at home; I'll double-check.

The 5.0 was still around, but it was a throttle body injected 305 not the carbureated 307.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:39 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 65):
The 5.0 was still around, but it was a throttle body injected 305 n

Yeah, thats what they used standard in the 91-93 Caprice, 91 Olds Custom Cruiser. The 5.7 was optional. From 94+ the base engine was the 4.3L L99 V8.
 
idealstandard
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:53 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 36):

All fuel grades in Europe nowadays have the necessary additives, no need to pour anything else into your tank or buy more expensive fuel. I also speculate that the mileage increase is a placebo effect.

Premium diesel fuels as well as V-Power 95 are ABSOLUTELY useless.

The fact that it gives me 50 miles extra to a tank on the Munich-Dunkerque (funnily enough - 585miles) which is an average slog (all motorway) is all that matters to me. Therefore, no idea what you are talking about - its quite absurd to suggest you know better than a car owner that does 35,000 miles in Germany alone per year on the motorways in his own car.

IS.
 
MasterBean
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:15 pm

Tesco sell bog standard petrol which is £1.17 a litre and 99 octane petrol, branded as Momentum which they say increases performance and mileage and cost 5p a litre more. I filled upon bog standard petrol because it's petrol and that's all a car needs.
 
A342
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RE: Regular Gas To Dissapear In Germany?

Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:25 pm

Quoting idealstandard (Reply 67):
Therefore, no idea what you are talking about - its quite absurd to suggest you know better than a car owner that does 35,000 miles in Germany alone per year on the motorways in his own car.

Unless all conditions are comparable on every single trip, the comparison is not meaningful.
And the fact that premium diesel does not deliver a substantial advantage hasn't been established by me, but by major car magazines. The German motor club ADAC found out that a fuel saving of 1-5.6% is possible, but that is more than offset by the price disadvantage. See here (German only):

http://www1.adac.de/Auto_Motorrad/Ta...onentID=102570&SourcePageID=237593

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