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Revelation
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RE: Georgia MegaChurch Leader Caught Being Gay

Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:05 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
There are also positive aspects of religion, but the religions that emphasize the positive aspects of religion in general rarely attain great power or influence for the very reason that they do not stoop to the behaviors necessary to achieve such status.

This is also not to say that religion is the source of all evil. Dogmatism might be, but religion hardly has a monopoly on evil. You might point to Iran, Al-Qaeda, the Inquisition (and general behavior of the RCC), Christian Identity movements, the Israeli/Arab issue as examples of how religion causes evil, but I will point to North Korea, China, the USSR, and Cuba as examples of how religion is not necessary to cause great evil. Of course, you could argue that they have a lot of similar traits in that there is absolute authority with no system of checks and balances.

I'm with you here.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
Religion can get dangerous because if God is on your side, then everything you do is so ordained and not subject to dissent

Thus many of my Catholic friends are defending the undefendable when it comes to the priest sex scandals. Most will tell me it's nothing but people trying to get money from the Roman Catholic Church, and to damage the good name (?) of the Roman Catholic Church.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
People are attracted to dogmatic belief systems, religious or otherwise, because it gives them a set of instructions by which to live their lives. They don't have the stress of having to make their own decisions and form their own worldview. But, as well-intentioned as these systems may be at their outset, they are invariably overcome by corruption.

Hmm, not sure the correlation between dogmatism and religion is 100%.

The Christian church I attend is really non-dogmatic.

And also not sure the correlation between dogmatism and corruption is 100%.

Seems to me some military organizations are really dogmatic and not corrupt.

In any case, thanks for raising the points.
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lowrider
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RE: Georgia MegaChurch Leader Caught Being Gay

Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:06 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
n addition, there have been egregious violations of tax laws.

That sounds like a problem of insufficient enforcement, which is entirely different from the insufficient regulation you charged earlier.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
Granting churches automatically tax-exempt status should also be found unconstitutional

You will be happy to know that it is not automatically granted then. There are criteria that a church has to meet in order to be recognized as a such and gain tax exempt status.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
Because nobody is allowed in a LDS temple other than a Mormon, there is nobody to prove that this ever occurred.

There are legal instruments, such as subpoenas and audits, that could force the church to produce their financial records if the IRS really wanted to see them. They could even have them bring it outside the temple.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
So you just happen to have a bunch of Mormons who just happen to donate a huge amount of money to a political cause in another state, but of course the Church has nothing to do with it.

They do have the right to peaceably assemble, and donate their money as they wish, no matter whose idea it is. Of course, if you did want to tax churches, you would have to remove the restrictions restrictions on their political activity. As it currently stands, churches cannot directly lobby or participate in the political process, due to their tax exempt status. If you change this, all of the churches will be allowed to directly lobby their various representatives, just like any other corporation. Do you think that will make things better or worse?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
If any other nonprofit tried to do that, they'd lose their nonprofit status.

Examples to back this up?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
Similarly, the LDS Church and the Catholic Church have vastly expensive properties filled with priceless relics. The LDS Church, in particular, demands that all members pay a whopping 10% of their annual income to the Church. Their operating costs cannot possibly be that high. And yet... they are tax-exempt.

In one sentence, you say they have extensive properties. In the next, you claim that these extensive properties cannot have extensive operating costs? Which is it?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 46):
You're the one that made reference that a tax could kill a church and I simply pointed out that's incorrect.

So you think it is impossible to tax a church, group, or business to the point where it would have to shut its doors? How does that logic work?
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RE: Georgia MegaChurch Leader Caught Being Gay

Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:42 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 51):
So you think it is impossible to tax a church, group, or business to the point where it would have to shut its doors? How does that logic work?




In theory, yes.
Has it ever happened?
No.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 50):
Most will tell me it's nothing but people trying to get money from the Roman Catholic Church, and to damage the good name (?) of the Roman Catholic Church.



They may have a point.
Even though I'm sure it did happen, I think the media made the ordeal to be bigger than it really was.
I was raised Roman Catholic as well and participated in the church when I was younger. I would only here about these bad Priest on the television.
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RE: Georgia MegaChurch Leader Caught Being Gay

Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:37 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 50):

Hmm, not sure the correlation between dogmatism and religion is 100%.

I never said it was. I was talking about dogmatic religions.

If you take non-dogmatic religions, like Quakerism, Unitarianism, Bhuddism, Taoism, Shintoism, Hinduism (to a degree... they certainly have their hard-line elements) or even some more moderate Christian denominations, you have examples. And those religions AREN'T busy trying to direct everyone else's lives.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 51):

In one sentence, you say they have extensive properties. In the next, you claim that these extensive properties cannot have extensive operating costs? Which is it?

I said that their operating costs cannot possibly be as high as their revenue.
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Aviacsa737
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RE: Georgia MegaChurch Leader Caught Being Gay

Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:03 am

Im Catholic, and i am also quite Gay, all i can say is that being honest about my homosexuality is probably much less of a sin than being a hypocrite about the issue. Apparently this doesnt set in with some of the more fundamentalist faiths. I dont have gay sex, and then go about condemning it, something that is the text book defenition of hypocracy but yet they cant see. Apparently one can not be gay and yet still be religious and conservative about other issues according to them. As an example of that, i would have to disagree with them. Its much better being honest about being gay than hating yourself AND being a hypocrite.
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