Further to my disgust at ICBC and their insurance rip off

Insurance Rip Off - Encourages Dishonesty? (by YVRLTN Oct 6 2010 in Non Aviation)

A new 0.05 blood alcohol concentration drink drive law has been passed in BC, along with new stricter speeding laws.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/tou...ws+start+Monday/3547095/story.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ng-laws-in-country/article1548399/

Dont get me wrong, drink driving is not to be condoned, but for the average male at least 0.05 is not considered 'drink driving'.

The idiots will probably still be idiots, while the average law abiding citizen will now no longer be able to have a glass of wine when out for dinner or a beer with the boys after work. What is most disturbing is the police are now given on the spot powers to make judgements and hand out the penalties, whatever they see fit in their eyes. I respect the police force for what they do generally, but there are officers in the RCMP round here anyway who have a serious chip on the shoulder and no doubt this will only fuel their power trip.

So we have the provincial car insurance scheme raping people for a minor scratch and now we have persons ending up with criminal convictions because they had a date with their wife and had a glass of wine. As far as I can see, its all in the name of safety and appeasing MADD (in itself a comendable concept but has been taken too far), but is just another cash grab from a province who's citizens already may much more for everything than the rest of the nation. Way to go Gordon Campbell and BC...gotta pay for those games somehow eh!

As an aside, its easy top say 'get a cab' etc etc, but in this economy all many can afford is maybe a simple meal for a special occasion (maybe because they were screwed by ICBC.....) and adding cab fares makes it even harder. I know for a fact the local bars are really really hurting already. People will simply stay home rather than pay for the cab so both couples can have bottle of wine, or the idiots will still continue to be idiots.

The speeding laws I can understand more, 40 over in a 50 zone for example is probably dangerous. 130 on a highway though??? Not so sure...

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter): Dont get me wrong, drink driving is not to be condoned, but for the average male at least 0.05 is not considered 'drink driving'.

Says who? I've known plenty of guys who with just one or two glasses of wine get noticeably tipsy. And some girls more so. I'm not too sure a standard glass of wine will make you blow a .05 though. However, it has been proven that even sips of alcohol can affect how you drive.

Honestly though, I'm more worried about the retards that take 500mg or more of Tylenol/Bendaryl/Sudafed etc etc just because they have a slightly runny nose/headache/whatever, and then decide it's a good idea to drive. I bet those are way more dangerous drivers than those that had a glass of wine or two. And it's (technically) not illegal.

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter): The speeding laws I can understand more, 40 over in a 50 zone for example is probably dangerous. 130 on a highway though??? Not so sure...

May want to specify that's in KmH   

[Edited 2010-10-08 20:57:51]

We have the same0.05 limit here in Western Australia. The Drug and Alcohol Authority has produced a Standard Drink measure of 10gm of pure alcohol. To stay within the limit they recommend that for men you consume no more than two standard drinks in the first hour and no more than one per hour after that. For women they recommend no more than one standard drink per hour.

Examples of standard drinks include:

• 1 375ml glass of mid-strength beer (3.5% Alc/ Vol);
• 30 ml nip of spirits like whiskey, rum, or brandy (40% Alc/ Vol); or
• 100ml of wine (12% Alc/ Vol).

So it should still be possible to go out and have a meal and share a bottle of wine or have a couple of beers.

As a designated expert (in the eyes of the criminal code) in this two things.

The .05 limit is a provincial limit and is not a criminal conviction it just goes on your driving record only(like a traffic ticket). To get a criminal charge you still need to blow greater than .08g/100ml.

After doing hundreds and hundreds of breath tests. I have learned this. At .05 in a large proportion of people there is significant impairment.

Here is my example. One course I was a volunteer drinker and i pounded them back and blew a 182 and pretty much remember nothing. On another course I drank like i normally did. I was sure I would blow over 100 and I felt hammered. I blew a 62. That was after 5 drinks in an hour.

It is not on the spot judgments. The driver will have to blow an alert on a roadside alcotest. These are calibrated to blow an alert between .05-.99g/100ml of alcohol in blood. This is a court approved instrument and not based on some random judgement.

gs

And then you have guys like me who don't drink and who are more than happy to drive you home, and no, I don't charge a thing, just a handshake and promise you won't drive drunk ever. (Lost a best friend that way).

I know I'm not alone, we're out there.

Enjoy

F

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 4): I know I'm not alone, we're out there.

That makes two of us.

The ladies seem to appreciate it especially, and I've been, uhm, "rewarded" for my good deeds after the fact once they sober up.    Provided they remember of course  

I'm only learning to drive here, so have no intention of drinking before lessons, but even on getting a license I plan to get into a car like I get into a glider...not within 12 hours of drinking, and even then only in moderation, and feeling no ill effects. I just don't see it being worth the risk, the statistics speak for themselves.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 4):

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):

                    

What is the problem? If you want to go out and not pay for a taxi, then don't drink - what is so important about those couple of drinks anyway??

Quoting Quokka (Reply 2):

The limit has been .05 here in Victoria since the 70's. Yes, you can still have a glass of wine with dinner or a beer with the boys after work, as long as you don't over do it. If I'm driving, I normally only have a couple of 'normal' drinks, or else I'll drink light beers. Not worth losing your licence for 18 months or more over 1 or 2 extra drinks.....

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter): A new 0.05 blood alcohol concentration drink drive law has been passed in BC, along with new stricter speeding laws.

0,05 is the normal limit in most responsible societies. By 0,08 your reflexes, regardless of what you say or perceive are cut in half. After 0,05, reflexes diminish EXPONENTIALLY with additional parts of alcohol. 0,05 is normal in most places NOT 'super strict'. It has been the standard in most of Australia since the 70's for that reason. That was when 0,08 vs 0,05 was debated and decided. I'm shocked that, 40 years later, it is not the case in Canada.

It's very low where I come from too (Ireland). As far as I am concerned, if it saves one life and prevents one family from going through the grief car accidents cause, these laws are justified.

Irregardless of laws, I've chosen to never drink and drive. Small amounts of alcohol may not affect one's driving ability so much, but no alcohol does not affect one's ability to drive at all.

[Edited 2010-10-09 13:09:42]

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7): What is the problem? If you want to go out and not pay for a taxi, then don't drink - what is so important about those couple of drinks anyway??

  

I don't quite understand how some people find it impossible to go an evening without a drink. I like the odd drink every so often, but if I'm driving, I just don't drink anything. That said, it's still annoying in some ways even though I actually really like non-alcoholic drinks - people rarely provide nice drinks for those who aren't drinking alcohol and you end up having a choice of warm tap water or warm tap water, or getting the patronising 'driving, are we?' comments should you choose to have Coke. I think we need to get over the 'not drinking' issue that exists in this country - it'd almost certainly make the roads a safer place.

I'm all for drunk driving laws.

Make the limit 0.2%, for all I care. And make it a felony.

BUT... provide alternative transport.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7): What is the problem? If you want to go out and not pay for a taxi, then don't drink

  

My girly and me drunk for approx. 100 EUR yesterday night. When I have 100 EUR for alc, then I have also 35 EUR for a taxi!

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 11): Irregardless of laws, I've chosen to never drink and drive.

Same here!

I admit, I drove totally drunk a couple of times when I was younger, especially when I was on vacation in Spain. Nowadays I do not drink a drop of alc when I know that I have to drive afterwards, I do not fancy to crash my car (with no insurance because I was drunk) and to lose my drivers license, both were pretty expensive and I don't want to pay again for them.

Patrick

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter): Way to go Gordon Campbell and BC

"According to court records Campbell's blood-alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit"

Yeah way to go Gordo   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): Make the limit 0.2%, for all I care. And make it a felony.

This is already the norm in many countries in Europe, some in Africa and elsewhere. Some countries are even stricter with lowere limits and much harsher penalties. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country
At least in major European cities there is usually cheap and efficient public transport to get people home if they do go out for a meal and a drink.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1): Honestly though, I'm more worried about the retards that take 500mg or more of Tylenol/Bendaryl/Sudafed etc etc just because they have a slightly runny nose/headache/whatever, and then decide it's a good idea to drive. I bet those are way more dangerous drivers than those that had a glass of wine or two. And it's (technically) not illegal.

This is more my point, sure, crack down on drink driving, but is it really in the name of safety, or is it a further cash grab? The officer decides on the sport what the penalty will be and it can be anywhere within a range of $3000+. Is there a standard system to base the penalty on?

So if youre cracking down on drink driving, then how about those who smoke pot & drive? Pretty hard to test for it. Then there are the said retards who pop all sorts of medications and cough syrups, or even undergoing treatments. Even though driving while on a cellphone is now also illegal, it is still done regularly and is just as dangerous, and Im not too sure handsfree makes a vast improvement either, most can easily drive with one hand, but the phone call generally gets more attention than the road from personal observation. Then theres fatigue, do you then ban someone for driving because they didnt sleep? And the moms with screaming / fighting kids. Morons with poodles on their laps. Those scanning for a radio station / adjusting the satnav. All these things make drivers impaired

Im also not convinced 0.05 = impaired on a 250 lbs male. It may, but everyone is different and the effects are different, which is why discretion is required.

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 12): I don't quite understand how some people find it impossible to go an evening without a drink

Its not impossible, but its quite normal to have a glass of wine with a steak for example. Personally Im pretty sure I will be fine as Quokka says, but I will never take the risk. So if you have an extreme view, you could say a police state are taking away your simple pleasures in life.

And Im pretty sure the idiots who used to get completely blotto and drive will continue to do so.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 4): And then you have guys like me who don't drink and who are more than happy to drive you home

Great, but not all of us have someone who can do that for us. We have zero family here and no friends who live in our town.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14): My girly and me drunk for approx. 100 EUR yesterday night. When I have 100 EUR for alc, then I have also 35 EUR for a taxi!

For some of us, eating out is a luxury, so no, we dont spend EUR 100 and we cant afford the taxi.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1): May want to specify that's in KmH

Seeing as my flag says Canada and the topic is about BC  

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 17): Quoting fridgmus (Reply 4): And then you have guys like me who don't drink and who are more than happy to drive you home Great, but not all of us have someone who can do that for us. We have zero family here and no friends who live in our town.

I've driven lots of strangers home. I just don't want anyone to get into a wreck and kill or injure someone. If I see you in a bar/restaurant and you're drunk, I'll offer to drive you home, no charge. I do it all the time when I'm in the US.

If more of us non-drinkers did that, then we'd have a better world, Doc Lightning could concentrate on playing with Paco and cops could eat more doughnuts!!! (No offense to our Law Enforcement Brothers and Sisters!).   

And besides, my best friend who taught me to skydive would still be alive today!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): Make the limit 0.2%, for all I care. And make it a felony.

I think you mean 0.02%, don't you?  The problem with so low levels is that's almost impossible to measure it accurately in field conditions.

No greasespot, your beloved alcolyzer is not that accurate. The person who made it court approved should be shot.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 2): mid-strength beer (3.5% Alc/ Vol);

3.5% = "Mid-Strength" beer?!?

Now I know to never drink beer in Australia.

Anyway, the new law in BC doesn't sound all that strict to me. Drinking and driving is disgusting.

.05 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The disappointing part is that repeat offenders do not face tougher penalties. I think anyone who gets caught a second time should lose all driving privileges for at least a year, maybe more. I get so fed up with hearing about people who have 10 - 15 DWI convictions. If someone gets caught driving while intoxicated, odds are it is not the first time they have done so, its just the first time they have been caught. To get caught a second time, it would have to be a pretty routine event.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 18): If more of us non-drinkers did that, then we'd have a better world, Doc Lightning could concentrate on playing with Paco and cops could eat more doughnuts!!!

Actually, I don't think it's necessary. You don't have to serve us, drinkers. It's all about responsible drinking. All we have to do is to leave our cars home or in the parking lot wherever we drink. Cabs are there, more than willing to take us home. As a heavy drinker, brewery employee and car owner/driver, all I have to say to cops: please do more spot check.
Alcoholic beverages and driving don't mix well. Please take off the roads all those who can't understand it.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 19): The problem with so low levels is that's almost impossible to measure it accurately in field conditions.

So arrest on suspicion and take to the station for more accurate analysis, as is required in the UK. No problem.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14): My girly and me drunk for approx. 100 EUR yesterday night. When I have 100 EUR for alc, then I have also 35 EUR for a taxi!

Precisely. Either walk, pay for a cab, get a lift, or don't drink. There is no rocket science here. I have just come back from a nice dinner. We didn't want to drive, so we forked out for a cab. Expensive evening, but you make your choices.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 23): So arrest on suspicion and take to the station for more accurate analysis, as is required in the UK. No problem.

Sure. Except this is not an option in Ontario (I don't know about other provinces). Once the thing shows you the number, you're guilty.

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 19): I think you mean 0.02%, don't you?

Meh. What's a decimal point among friends?  

Australia's favourite racing driver (until Mark Webber wins the F1 WDC   ) Peter Brock raced with the number "05" from the late 1970s, as a specific recognition (and perhaps with Victorian Government support initially) of Victoria's adoption of a 0.05 limit.

AFAIR, NSW didn't drop from 0.08 to 0.05 until the 1980s. We now have 3 limits - Zero (for learner and provisional drivers), 0.02 for drivers of large vehicles and public transport vehicles, and 0.05 for others. All convictions result in a fine ($1000+) licence disqualification of at least 3 months (up to 12), and some offences may result in a gaol (jail?   ) term.