Longhornmaniac
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Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:56 pm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...80125#39680125

Very moving speech.

Pass it on.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
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Mir
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:17 pm

Link doesn't work - there's one here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39691906/ns/us_news-life/

That speech took some big brass ones. Props to him. And the message can't be said enough.

-Mir
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:25 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
That speech took some big brass ones. Props to him. And the message can't be said enough.

+1 on that. Some big brass ones doesn't even begin to describe it. Even if one kid listened to what he had to say, the world would be better for it.



CanadianNorth

[Edited 2010-10-15 17:30:07]
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DocLightning
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:13 am

Homophobia kills. Prejudice kills. Hate kills.

But today, love carried the day.

Thank you, Mr. Burns.
-Doc Lightning-

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Jean Leloup
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:40 am

Indeed, very moving. I was nervous how the rest of the council/audience would react. How conservative of a place is Ft. Worth?

This got me thinking. A lot of conservatives (on here and elsewhere) want to emphasize that they have nothing against gay people, they just don't want what they perceive to be gay culture and priorities to be "shoved down their throat" or "in their face". In other words, they're opposed to what they believe is the "gay agenda", but claim to have no problem letting gays live their lives in peace.

Without going into the defensibility of that stance, I would suggest that the recent situation is a chance for such conservatives to put their money where their mouth is:

Surely, conservatives who believe in 'live and let live' can get behind a growing movement to help teens be free from bullies who want to tell them they're worthless. Surely people who believe in accountability and justice would support serious punishment for those who harass others, unprovoked. And surely, those who believe in traditional religious values and in doing what's right will take the time to teach their children never to devalue or harm others who are simply different from themselves.

Surely?

This is a battle that can be won, and one in which all thoughtful, responsible adults should be on the same side. But will they be?

JL
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DocLightning
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:49 am

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 4):

Surely, conservatives who believe in 'live and let live' can get behind a growing movement to help teens be free from bullies who want to tell them they're worthless. Surely people who believe in accountability and justice would support serious punishment for those who harass others, unprovoked. And surely, those who believe in traditional religious values and in doing what's right will take the time to teach their children never to devalue or harm others who are simply different from themselves.

"Therefore special concern and pastoral attention should be directed toward those who have this condition, lest they be led to believe that the living out of this orientation in homosexual activity is a morally acceptable option. It is not."

-Letter to the Bishops, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, 1986
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...9861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

"Homosexuality is not a "valid alternative lifestyle." The Bible condemns it as sin."
-The Southern Baptist Convention
http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/pssexuality.asp

"God Hates Fags."
-Westboro Baptist Church
www.godhatesfags.org

Surely?

To say things such as these and then turn around and say, "But we don't support bullying these people" is called "talking out of both sides of your mouth." If you teach that the mere existence of an individual is inherently sinful, then you are devaluing and degrading that individual.

And so I would submit that there is no room for ANY such prejudice, be it racial, gender, sexual in this world. For too long has this behavior been defended as "religious freedom" when it would never be tolerated if it were anything else. Oh, they treat it as if homosexuality is something different, but it's not just homosexuality:
http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/08/2...church-turns-away-biracial-boy.htm
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ries/110606dnTSWperry.351c57c.html

And stories abound.

So no. I am not willing to accept religion as being a valid justification for teaching that some people are inherently inferior. And on that view, I will not budge a millimeter.
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Jean Leloup
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:26 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):

I have no idea what that response was about. Who was trying to justify discrimination based on religion? Certainly not me.

My post was a challenge to those who criticize homosexuality but claim not to be oppressors, to stand up and act like it by standing up for the oppressed. A fairly obvious "Put up, or at least shut up."

I don't see how your quotes from conservative religious authorities address my point in any way.

JL
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ltbewr
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:47 pm

I have had to facing psychical and verbal bullying (and not just from the kids, but also from the nuns) as a school kid, even transferring from a Catholic school to a Public schools after 7th grade. I have also had to facing bulling in the form of annoying harassment as a young adult finally taking a swing at the offender and then quit my job on the spot. I remember my emotions at those times of dealing with it and the lack real help from parents and others (this is in the 1960's and 70's).

Bullying and harassment by your peers at any age can be devastating, with results from death, using drugs and alcohol to abusive levels, damaging your long term health, significant psychological damage, never wanting to trust others, being socially very awkward and great difficulty developing healthy relationships with a significant other or sexually.

This emotional display of this man as an adult, expressing the effects bullying and harassment can do to someone and knowing how it effects people in the present and years later is deserving of it's attention. Perhaps we can finally have the badly needed attention to this issue and begin to end the bullying.
 
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:30 pm

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6):
My post was a challenge to those who criticize homosexuality but claim not to be oppressors, to stand up and act like it by standing up for the oppressed. A fairly obvious "Put up, or at least shut up."

No one should stand by and see another physically or verbally abused. That is not right. Teachers and school administrators should especially be on the look out for those situations.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
Bullying and harassment by your peers at any age can be devastating

True, but kids are worst on other kids. They still retain more of the hive mentality since they have not matured and the hive does not tolerate those that are percieved to be different very well. What those college kids did, placing a camera and streaming that kids sexual activity was just wrong. I wonder how the girl involved would feel if just her undressing without her knowledge were streamed live on the intenet? They should face some serious punishment but probably won't. The Cy-Fair ISD has some questions to answer about why they did nothing to help the kid.
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:13 pm

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6):

My post was a challenge to those who criticize homosexuality but claim not to be oppressors, to stand up and act like it by standing up for the oppressed. A fairly obvious "Put up, or at least shut up."

I was agreeing with you. But I was also saying that "traditional religious values" are incompatible with justice and doing what's right as long as those "traditional religious values" teach that homosexuality is inherently wrong.
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tbar220
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:09 am

Bravo! Great speech, and I feel he is brave making this speech. We need more people like him.
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iairallie
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:49 am

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 4):
Surely, conservatives who believe in 'live and let live' can get behind a growing movement to help teens be free from bullies who want to tell them they're worthless. Surely people who believe in accountability and justice would support serious punishment for those who harass others, unprovoked. And surely, those who believe in traditional religious values and in doing what's right will take the time to teach their children never to devalue or harm others who are simply different from themselves.

Surely?

Of course, I've never personally met a conservative or religious person who condones bullying for any reason. Bullying is wrong.
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:01 am

Quoting iairallie (Reply 11):

Of course, I've never personally met a conservative or religious person who condones bullying for any reason. Bullying is wrong.

When you teach that some people are inherently inferior to others, you condone bullying, even if not expressly so.
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iairallie
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:16 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
When you teach that some people are inherently inferior to others, you condone bullying, even if not expressly so.

My faith doesn't teach that. It teaches that we are all children of God. It teaches EXPRESSLY not to bully but to love your neighbor.
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:28 am

Quoting iairallie (Reply 13):

My faith doesn't teach that. It teaches that we are all children of God. It teaches EXPRESSLY not to bully but to love your neighbor.

If your faith actually teaches that (and all faiths do claim to teach that, but only a few really do) then it's not one of the ones I'm angry at.
-Doc Lightning-

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iairallie
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:04 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
If your faith actually teaches that (and all faiths do claim to teach that, but only a few really do) then it's not one of the ones I'm angry at.

It does actually teach that but I'm pretty sure it's one of the ones you are pissed off at.
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RE: Ft. Worth City Councilman Speech To Gay Teens...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:12 am

Quoting iairallie (Reply 15):

It does actually teach that but I'm pretty sure it's one of the ones you are pissed off at.

If it teaches that gay people are inherently morally inferior, then your faith has a defective moral compass and encourages bullying.

You don't have to like my saying it. But I'm saying it.

I sincerely hope it doesn't.
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