Quoting NoUFO (Reply 54): No, most join a public health insurance.

I was referring to your specific case.

May I ask you what happens if a person hasn't a private health insurance and doesn't join a public insurance? Is there a general coverage by the state in Germany? For example, if this person needs a cure for a serious disease (for example cancer), who pays? In Italy it's paid by the state, you don't need to pay anything for hospital treatments (there's just the exception of not-serious medications if you go to the E.R., in this case you have to pay a ticket, for example 20-50 euro) and you don't need a private health insurance.

Quoting MasterBean (Reply 41): Actually, Swindon does have one big famous feature, a roundabout.

And a Honda plant!

Quoting janmnastami (Reply 55): May I ask you what happens if a person hasn't a private health insurance and doesn't join a public insurance?

Back then when I was self-employed (and PWM2TXLHopper was in Berlin), this was indeed possible. Any self-employed did not fall within mandatory social insurance. I think(!) nowadays things have changed somewhat, and you need a certain minimum income, otherwise you have to have health insurance.
If I haven't had health insurance and was diagnosed with cancer - tough luck. I would have to pay the treatment out of my own pocket. If I couldn't, which is likely, I would have to pay as much as I could, allow the state marshal to seize goods I don't really need and declare private bankruptcy. Then the state would cover the rest of the expenses. The hospital *has* to provide the services I need, even if it's unclear who is going to pay for it. After seven years of private bankruptcy during which I would have to live on minimum income (the rest will be seized), my remaining depth would be waived.

But that's exactly state does not want to happen. Some call it nanny state, and while there is some truth to it, a generous wellfare state, wanted by the majority of the population, has to protect itself from fraudulent or egoistic behavior like this: "I'm not going to pay in and save some money, and *IF* anything serious is going to happen, I'll rely on somewhat generous welfare which is only then barely affordable if everyone pays in."
The reason why state forces you to buy health insurance is not that politicians say: " I know better than you what is good for you" but "otherwise we cannot afford what you want us to provide".

The reason "only" 30 percent of all jobs fall within mandatory social insurance is that many are low paid part-time jobs where a mother (or father) works 2x4 hours a week while the kids are in school. The partner then works fulltime and covers the family with the (mandatory) social insurance. Or take students who get insurance via their university. Then there are self-employed people wealthy enough to escape mandatory health care.

[Edited 2010-10-28 09:38:18]

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 57): The reason "only" 30 percent of all jobs fall within mandatory social insurance is that ...

Oh, and then there are civil servants. State will cover half of their health expenses. Whether or not they get an insurance that covers the other half of their bill is up to them, so they do not under mandatory social insurance either.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 53): Thanks for the clarifications! I must admit, my knowledge relating to life in the U.K. is limited only to what I've read, and from things people have told me who are either from there, or spent time there. I've traveled in 23 European countries, but for some reason the U.K. has just never interested me very much, and I've never visited. Perhaps this has to do with my opinion that the U.K. is the most similar part of Europe to the United States culture wise? Especially the New England region of the country where I'm from, and where the majority of the population is of English background. Heck, even the architecture of the buildings here is similar if you go to small country towns, or the old parts of cities like Boston. Where I live, I could even name three dozen towns that are named after those in England. We've got York, Manchester, Exeter, Hampton, Portsmouth, Yarmouth, etc.

Anyone who feels that the UK is very similar to the US, has never visited the UK. We may shae some city names, but thats about all. Culture, architecture, cuisine, education etc are all different.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 53): Also, in Europe, is it not true that you often have to travel long distances from your home town to a hospital in a large city, for a lot of specialty procedures/surgeries? Especially if you don't live close to a major metropolitan area? Not every small and medium size town has a state of the art, world class hospital/medical facility with all the latest advances in technology just a quick drive away, like in the USA. Here, if you need major heart surgery, brain surgery, or some other major, highly specialized procedure, there's usually the facilities and specialist doctors close by that can do it, without transiting hours away to a major city.

You would never travel large distances in the UK for medical treatment, for the simple reason that by US standards we don't have any long distances. England is only 400 or so miles from North to South.
Specifically with regard to specialised medical procedures, it came to the attention of the relevant authoroties here years back, that in order to be competent at such procedures, a doctor or surgeon needed to carry them out regularly. It is no good having the equipment if you don't use it on a regular enough basis to be safe. Thus for an example paedatric cariology is concentrated on a handful of regional centres, as it was found that surgeons doing this work just a few times a year were killing more patients than they cured.
I live close to one of our major regional hospitals, to my knowledge the only specialisations it doesnt cover are cardiology and burns. The regional cardiology unit being only 10 miles away. The maximum disatnce any one would travel to this hospital is 80 miles.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 59): Anyone who feels that the UK is very similar to the US, has never visited the UK. We may share some city names, but that's about all. Culture, architecture, cuisine, education etc are all different.

As somebody who has visited the US 6 times, I agree wholeheartedly with this.

We share the same language (well... almost  ) but that's about as far as it goes. The rest of it is completely different in every way - even down to general day to day customs.

Honestly PWM2TXLHopper, come to the UK. You'll be (hopefully pleasantly) surprised.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 44): If you ever got the chance to become a citizen over there, you're required to forfeit your American citizenship, so it might be a good idea to become an naturalized legal resident, but retain American citizenship?

At least in the UK this is not true, dual citizenship is perfectly accepted (I am a dual British - Colombian citizen myself) and they don't ask you to forfeit your other citizenship. Problems with this would arise more from the other country, rather than the UK.
I've no info about other European countries though.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 59): Anyone who feels that the UK is very similar to the US, has never visited the UK. We may shae some city names, but thats about all. Culture, architecture, cuisine, education etc are all different.

I wouldn't say it is the same, but I would say it's the "most similar'. More similar to the USA than say Italy, or France, or Spain, or Eastern Europe.

There, people actually listen to rock music more than other places in Europe where I find electronic and house music to be most popular. As somebody pointed out, in the U.K. a lot of people, even the young, drive cars. The language is the same. A lot of people are out of shape and getting fat, as was also pointed out. Lots of common last names, names of towns and cities. Pubs close early (I thinks it's between 12-2 in England, right) Heck, at least concerning London, it seems London is the most violent out of the big European cities. I hear about more shootings and gun crime, gangs, and inner city violence in London than other big European cities. To me, that's kind of similar to urban American cities, too.

Also, in my experience in bars in Europe, it seems the British are the most likely to want to brawl, which is common to American drinking culture. When I go out here drinking in the USA, it seems like no matter where I go, dive bar or more upscale, around closing time a fight always breaks out, or you run into people looking for one. Yet, in my experiences in most of Europe, fights in drinking establishments aren't anywhere near as common. When I bar tended in Berlin, the entire two years I was there, the only fights or rowdy young drinkers we ever had were British guests. Literally! Especially during football games.

So, of course it's not a carbon copy of the USA, but more similar than most other countries in Europe? I'd say yes.

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 61): At least in the UK this is not true, dual citizenship is perfectly accepted (I am a dual British - Colombian citizen myself) and they don't ask you to forfeit your other citizenship. Problems with this would arise more from the other country, rather than the UK.

Yeah, the problem lies within the USA. In every U.S. Passport, there's section that clearly states that if you become a legal citizen (not legal resident) of another country, you are required to relinquish your American citizenship under the the threat of commiting treason.


Mine states...."Under certain circumstances, you may lose your U.S. citizenship by performing, voluntarily and with intention to relinquish U.S> citizenship, any of the following acts. 1. Being Naturalized in a foreign state 2. Taking an oath or making a declaration to a foreign state 3. Serving in the armed forces of a foreign state. Accepting employment with a foreign government. 5. Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer overseas. Warning: A person who holds dual citizenship of more than one country at the same time is considered a dual citizen. A dual citizen may be subject to the laws of the other country that considers that person a citizen while in that country's jurisdiction, including conscription for military service. Dual citizenship may hamper efforts to provide U.S. consular protection to dual citizens in the foreign country of their other nationality.







[Edited 2010-10-29 08:34:32]