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photopilot
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:19 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 90):
Shocked at Alonso's lack of performance. Could they not turn up his engine to allow him to pass Petrov?

I'd be interested in knowing what gear ratios the Renault and the Ferrari were running in 7th gear. Alonso couldn't seem to close or gain on the strait, despite the aero tow. Makes me wonder if he was bumping up against his rev limiter and simply couldn't go faster.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:53 pm

Quoting photopilot (Reply 100):
I'd be interested in knowing what gear ratios the Renault and the Ferrari were running in 7th gear.

Marc Gene (Test Driver at Ferrari) is always a gust commentator on Spanish TV, he said that Ferrari opted to run a high downforce configuration for this race and that their 7th gear has a very short ratio, tha'ts why he could not match up against the Taxis... sorry ... Renaults.

MIAspotter.
 
B747forever
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:09 pm

Isnt Vettel the youngest WDC winner ever in F1?
 
Sabena332
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:15 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 102):
Isnt Vettel the youngest WDC winner ever in F1?

He is!

As I wrote in my reply above, I am not a big F1 fan anymore but I am glad that Vettel made it. Hats off!

Patrick
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:19 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 102):
Isnt Vettel the youngest WDC winner ever in F1?

Yes, he's about 7 months younger than Hamilton was when he won in 2008.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:20 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 81):
He spent nearly the majority of the race trying to to overtake Petrov, and his inability to do so pretty much cost him the title

it wasn't his inability, it was that the Renault was not inferior to the Ferrari. There was nothing Alonso could have done.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 84):
Exactly, Ferrari should have concentrated on their own race instead of Webber's,

Agreed. Ferrari screwed up, not expecting to find Petrov in the middle, thinking that they would at least finish 4th anyway. Granted, had Alonso not ended up behind Petrov probably he's be WDC now, but still .... the team screwed up. He was running some fast laps and getting away from Webber when he was called in. And Massa? as much as I like him, he's been useless for the team effort.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 90):
Shocked at Alonso's lack of performance

I was shocked that he let the third spot at the beginning, but after that I can't really blame him so much because Petrov was not slow enough to let Alonso any chance.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 99):
Yes, but in the Davis Cup, the team wins the title, not the individual

And at the time Ferrari was still fighting for the contructors championship, and Massa was too slow. They were risking the 1-2 with Massa at front. Ferrari went for both the team points and the individual points. Maybe our differences come because Ferrari fans tend to be fans of the car, no matter who is driving, whereas for most other teams, fans will cheer for the driver first.
 
cpd
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 105):
Agreed. Ferrari screwed up, not expecting to find Petrov in the middle, thinking that they would at least finish 4th anyway. Granted, had Alonso not ended up behind Petrov probably he's be WDC now, but still .... the team screwed up. He was running some fast laps and getting away from Webber when he was called in. And Massa? as much as I like him, he's been useless for the team effort.

Poor strategy from both Ferrari and Redbull - though it is easy in hindsight to say that.

The idea was good, but getting boxed in behind Algersuari and the Renaults was the risk, and sure enough, it happened.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 105):
not expecting to find Petrov in the middle

But it wasn't just Petrov, they ended up behind Kubica and Rosberg as well. Even if Alonso had managed to 'frighten' Petrov out of the way, he'd have had an even tougher time getting past Kubica and Rosberg.

A very flat end to the season for Alonso and Ferrari.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:01 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 106):
Poor strategy from both Ferrari and Redbull - though it is easy in hindsight to say that.

in Ferrari's case it was for both cars, in RBR's case it was only for Webber. They almost screwed up too but they were smart enough to see that the situation had become very favourable for Vettel and they told him to push hard cause the strategy had changed.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 107):
But it wasn't just Petrov, they ended up behind Kubica and Rosberg as well.

Yes, but Kubica still had to have his pit stop. Hadn't Alonso been behind Petrov, Kubica would not have come back from the pits in front of Alonso. I think Ferrari was sure they'd come in front of Petrov (or at worst, that Petrov would have been easy to pass), as well as Massa coming in front of Alguersuari in order to pressure Webber. The idea possibly included that any one of the guys in front would encounter some problem and end up DNF.
What pisses me off is that Alonso was fast at the time he went in. He didn't need it at all. A few more laps would have made him WDC today.

In any case, despite the disapointment, Ferrari still managed to get a second place, beating both Mclaren's and one RBR with a slower car. He only lost by 4 points against the best duo car/driver, so all in all, it was a good season for Ferrari. If only Massa could have been up to what was expected ...

And in general, it was an awesome season overall. Getting into the last race with 4 contenders is great, no matter who ends up winning or losing.

Quoting sudden (Reply 89):
Thank you all who participates in these threads.

 

agreed. These threads add an extra spice to the F1 season! Maybe some day we'll all be able to have an F1 anet meeting somewhere  
 
cpd
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:31 am

my wish for next year is Abu Dhabi race at a conventional time of the day, so that the viewing for here is at more reasonable hours (rather than midnight!!).

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 108):
What pisses me off is that Alonso was fast at the time he went in. He didn't need it at all. A few more laps would have made him WDC today.

Since Schumacher and Brawn left the red team, brilliant strategy hasn't been one of their stronger points. I used to be a Ferrari fan before I defected to Brawn GP (who is now MGP). Maybe next year, MGP will be faster than everyone else for once.

I have a feeling Renault might be very tough next year too.

[Edited 2010-11-14 16:33:08]
 
cpd
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:51 am

What also amazed me was the super-yacht parked beside the track. If I'm not mistaken, it was "Al Mirqab", the super-yacht of Sheik Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani. What a magnificent ship.

[Edited 2010-11-14 18:52:42]
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:57 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 105):
Maybe our differences come because Ferrari fans tend to be fans of the car, no matter who is driving, whereas for most other teams, fans will cheer for the driver first.

Actually, for me, as a Williams fan, the team comes first, and that is precisely why I say it doesn't matter which order the drviers finish, so long as they finish ahead of the rest of the pack. If, as you say, Ferrari fans are fans of the car, then surely they can't be upset had Massa won in Germany instead. After all, he's still a Ferrari driver.
 
GolfOscarDelta
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:02 am

I know this sounds silly but does anyone else think Mark was sacrificed by RBR to bait Alonso. Because he didn't seem to do anything at all after his pit. Not at all aggressive, he seemed to have resigned to the fact that he was not going anywhere as long as Petrov wasn't letting Alonso get by.

Also its funny how Adrian Newey for all his genius has cars that are not robust, unless the cars have 4 sec of clear air they can't perform their aero magic. Surely they should have considered that they were going to be stuck behind Alonso sometime this year and when they were all their aero magic fails. Rather Silly actually!

[Edited 2010-11-14 20:08:31]
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:41 am

Quoting GolfOscarDelta (Reply 112):
I know this sounds silly but does anyone else think Mark was sacrificed by RBR to bait Alonso. Because he didn't seem to do anything at all after his pit. Not at all aggressive, he seemed to have resigned to the fact that he was not going anywhere as long as Petrov wasn't letting Alonso get by.

No, I don't think so. What was Webber supposed to do? Webber needed to get ahead of Alonso to have any chance of winning the title, so naturally, Red Bull took a gamble on pit strategy, but lost. Trouble is that they didn't account for the traffic that Webber would face on pit exit. That gamble didn't pay off.

Quoting GolfOscarDelta (Reply 112):
Also its funny how Adrian Newey for all his genius has cars that are not robust, unless the cars have 4 sec of clear air they can't perform their aero magic. Surely they should have considered that they were going to be stuck behind Alonso sometime this year and when they were all their aero magic fails. Rather Silly actually!

I think it has more to do with the characteristics of the track than anything. I'm no aerodynamicist, and I'm no physicist, but some tracks are easier to overtake on than others. Abu Dhabi's track is one of the worst on the F1 calendar as far as overtaking is concerned. The race was a bit of a procession, really.
 
codeshare
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:15 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 109):
Since Schumacher and Brawn left the red team, brilliant strategy hasn't been one of their stronger points. I used to be a Ferrari fan before I defected to Brawn GP (who is now MGP). Maybe next year, MGP will be faster than everyone else for once.

I have a feeling Renault might be very tough next year too.

Exactly Kimi's title was won by a point, from then on they are just sliding towards the bottom. McLaren stayed at a certain level, and last year we had Brawn and RBR join, with RBR keeping up the form this year.

Whatever is left of Renault   if more or less same people stay and their attitude they could be a strong contender.

KS/codeshare
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:45 am

If I were the Red Bull team director, I would have invited every driver and team member to the Red Bull party in Abu Dhabi to end the season in style and celebrate the new World Champion and Formula 1 altogether with no discrimination what so ever.

  
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:48 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 111):
Ferrari fans are fans of the car, then surely they can't be upset had Massa won in Germany instead. After all, he's still a Ferrari driver

yes but Ferrari was thinking in the long run, not the just one race. And let's not foret that Massa was being slower and everyone behind was catching up.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 113):
No, I don't think so. What was Webber supposed to do? Webber needed to get ahead of Alonso to have any chance of winning the title, so naturally, Red Bull took a gamble on pit strategy, but lost

The thing that surprises me is that Webber at no point was even remotely close to try to pass Alonso. Compare Webber-Alonso with Alonso-Petrov. The attitude was completely different. Alonso made 3 mistakes that, had Webber been at his tail, would have meant that Webber woud have passed him, bu he looke like he didn't care about what was going on.
 
codeshare
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:18 pm

Yes, some articles suggest that Webber was passive, like if he didn't care at all. But what do we know what was going on inside his head ?

KS/codeshare
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:28 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 116):
The thing that surprises me is that Webber at no point was even remotely close to try to pass Alonso.

I think Webber knew that his chance of the title was over after Q3 - he REALLY needed to be on the front row. With Alonso, Vettel and both McLarens in front of him, his task was just about impossible.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:39 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 118):
I think Webber knew that his chance of the title was over after Q3 - he REALLY needed to be on the front row. With Alonso, Vettel and both McLarens in front of him, his task was just about impossible.

Feir enoug, but it also seemed that he didn't care about helping his teammate. Now we know that Alonso got stuck behind Petrov for 35 laps, but at that point no one knew for sure the strategy had failed, and the decision of the WDC between Alonso and Vettel could well have been in Webber's hands.
 
PanHAM
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:42 pm

Webber and Vettel are not the best of friends. Safe to say that Webber could not care less about Vettels chances to win or lose the race.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:56 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 101):
tha'ts why he could not match up against the Taxis... sorry ... Renaults.

The "Taxis" still powered the World Champion team. And Alonso not being able to overtake any of the Taxis make him what? a Rickshaw driver?  
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 108):
What pisses me off is that Alonso was fast at the time he went in. He didn't need it at all. A few more laps would have made him WDC today.

Indeed. That was their biggest mistake. Obviously the danger was not coming from Webber.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 113):
Abu Dhabi's track is one of the worst on the F1 calendar as far as overtaking is concerned

And that's why F1 needs to go away from these crap Disneyland-like circuits. I understand the facilities are fantastic, but the rest is just bland. The layout is totally not interesting.

Nothing beats old-timers like Monza, Spa or Montreal.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 118):
I think Webber knew that his chance of the title was over after Q3 - he REALLY needed to be on the front row. With Alonso, Vettel and both McLarens in front of him, his task was just about impossible.

I agree.
 
legoguy
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:25 pm

Good to see the banter between the new smaller teams, as Lotus finished ahead of Virgin Racing in the standings, Richard Branson lost a bet and has to serve as a stewardess (female clothing) onboard an Air Asia flight  http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101115...e-as-stewardess-after-7f81b96.html

Also I quite enjoyed the montage the BBC played as their end credits...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8KQ024Nz3U

What a fantastic season!
 
bill142
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:16 pm

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 116):
The thing that surprises me is that Webber at no point was even remotely close to try to pass Alonso. Compare Webber-Alonso with Alonso-Petrov. The attitude was completely different. Alonso made 3 mistakes that, had Webber been at his tail, would have meant that Webber woud have passed him, bu he looke like he didn't care about what was going on.

I think you're right. There was something missing with Webber. I don't know if qualifying just defeated him or the situation just got the better of him, but it wasn't the same driver we've seen on other occasions this season. Webber should have passed Alonso on a number of occasions.

Quoting legoguy (Reply 122):
Good to see the banter between the new smaller teams, as Lotus finished ahead of Virgin Racing in the standings, Richard Branson lost a bet and has to serve as a stewardess (female clothing) onboard an Air Asia flight http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101115....html

Could be interesting to see. Will be sold as a charity flight.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:30 pm

This is F1 related...

Want to fly with Stewardess Richard Branson?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101115...e-as-stewardess-after-7f81b96.html

I hope they will stick him on the people's side in the Economy cabin and not in First or Business Class where he would have a much easier time.

 
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:07 pm

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 121):
And Alonso not being able to overtake any of the Taxis make him what? a Rickshaw driver?

Got to hand it to you for that one! 
 
blueflyer
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:19 pm

What I do wonder is, if next year the two drivers find them in different situations, whether Red Bull will remember the fair and impartial way they treated their drivers and favor Webber over Vettel the way they did Vettel on several occasions this season, be it is by taking a part off one driver's car for the other, or allowing both drivers to race until the very end because both had a mathematical shot at winning the title.

I hope it ends up being the case (if only because it would make for a hell of a season again), but I am not optimistic. I remain convinced that, when hard decisions need to be made, Red Bull will lean towards Vettel.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 119):
Feir enoug, but it also seemed that he didn't care about helping his teammate.

I don't think that Webber's teammate has shown much willingness over the season, let alone before the final race, to be a teammate. A simple Yes to the question everyone asked would have settled that, but instead Webber's teammate had to parse words. I don't think that Webber purposely declined to attack Alonso because he didn't want to help Vettel, but he may not have put much of an effort into it, and I don't blame him for that.

Also, think of the atmosphere right now if Webber had pushed hard to pass Alonso and taken him out...
 
sudden
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:33 pm

Folks,
I opened up the off season thread,
F1 2010-2011 Off Season (by sudden Nov 15 2010 in Non Aviation)
 
CXB77L
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:08 am

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 126):
I don't think that Webber's teammate has shown much willingness over the season, let alone before the final race, to be a teammate.

I disagree.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88135

Quote:
If the situation occurs on Sunday then we know we are driving for the team.

Do we really need him to spell it out? It is a foregone conclusion that if the team can be best served by letting Webber ahead of him, he'd do it. Like he said, they are driving for the team.
 
blueflyer
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:39 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 128):
Do we really need him to spell it out?

Vettel is a smart guy. All he did, repeatedly, was to give himself wiggle room just in case "the situation" occurred on Sunday and he didn't cede the way, so no one could accuse him of lying, going back on his word, whatever, afterwards.
 
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scbriml
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:20 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 128):
Do we really need him to spell it out?

No, but it's easy to say you'll do something when, inside, you don't believe you'll need to do it. From the same article:

Quote:
Vettel has said the only approach he can take for this weekend is to focus solely on the win - and then work out the title implications later.

After Q3 it would have been as clear to Vettel as it was to Webber that moving over to let Webber through was very unlikely to be required.
 
cpd
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:39 am

Roberto Calderoli has demanded the dismissal of Ferrari boss:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/91520/fe...nso-chairman-toyota-ends-hrt-deal/

Had to like Luca di Montezemolo's very cutting and personal response to the politician. I agree with Luca on that sentiment.

Toyota has also abandoned HRT.
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:03 am

Some of the times from test drivers yesterday:

Pos Driver Car Time
1. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 1m39.616s
2. Oliver Turvey McLaren 1m40.725s
3. Antonio Felix da Costa Force India 1m41.381s
4. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber 1m41.432s
5. Dean Stoneman Williams 1m41.522s
6. Mikhail Aleshin Renault 1m42.073s
7. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 1m42.489s
8. Paul di Resta Force India 1m42.736s
9. Sam Bird Mercedes 1m42.985s
10. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin 1m43.518s
11. Pastor Maldonado HRT 1m43.750s
12. Jules Bianchi Ferrari 1m43.894s
13. Rodolfo Gonzalez Lotus 1m44.924s
14. Rio Haryanto Virgin 1m49.439s

All timing unofficial
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: F1 2010 Abu Dhabi: The Final Chapter

Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:48 pm

Final testing day for the new drivers. Here are the times:

1. Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull) 1'38"102 (77 laps)
2. Jerome D'Ambrosio (Renault) 1'38"802 (83)
3. Sam Bird (Mercedes) 1'39"220 (82)
4. Gary Paffett (McLaren) 1'39"760 (84)
5. Jules Bianchi (Ferrari) 1'39"916 (93)
6. Sergio Perez (Sauber) 1'40"543 (91)
7. Paul di Resta (Force India) 1'40"901 (27)
8. Pastor Maldonado (Williams) 1'40"944 (81)
9. Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso) 1'40"974 (61)
10. Yelmer Buurman (Force India) 1'41"178 (67)
11. Davide Valsecchi (Hispania) 1'43"013 (32)
12. Luiz Razia (Virgin) 1'43"525 (70)
13. Josef Kral (Hispania) 1'44"143 (61)
14. Rodolfo Gonzalez (Lotus) 1'44"312 (41)
15. Vladimir Arabadzhiev (Lotus) 1'45"723 (49)

Please note that 3 drivers were faster than Vettel's pole postion last week (1’39’394). It might not be very relevant to compare because settings might not be the same, but if you take Ricciardo, for example, being 1.2 seconds faster on the same car is still an impressive achievement.

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