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Aeroflot777
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:55 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 93):
200$? Come on, 40/50€ gets you from Sheremetyevo or Domodedovo to any point in Moscow proper, and intra-city fares are cheaper than that.

Seriously... Don't you love exaggeration?

Aeroflot777
 
tu204
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:21 pm

Absolutely no surpise about us getting the 2018 whatsoever. Pretty much any of my friends abroad (i.e. non Russian) that I spoke to that have any knowledge on football knew that was going to happen. Even the western bookmakers agreed.
Qatar is a surprise, but knowing a few (namely a pair of students living in my apartment building two floors below me, who by the way, regardless of being Muslim are pretty shitfaced right now and throwing a party that I wish I was at) they will do a good job just due to passion and abundance of money.

Now the good news for me: if I turn my head to my left right now, I can see the stadium lights (off at the moment) of the Dynamo Stadium in Moscow, which is 5-8 minutes walking distance from my front door. It will be one of the venues for the WC. Sooooo, football fans of Airliners.net, early bird special: 50 Euro/night sleeping space or 150/night room with 4 sleeping places. PM for details and reservations 
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Severnaya
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:23 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 79):
Last time I paid $200 for a cab fare was in Moscow. Love those $500/night Best Western rooms too. I'll watch 2018 from home.

You paid $200 for a cab fare in Moscow? To where were you heading, to Novosibirsk? Seriously taxi drivers are laughing about people like you accepting their initial fares. Hotel rooms are like in any big city expensive, however when you search a little you end up paying not more than $100 a night in a good 4 star hotel. The Maxima hotels are good value of their price!

Quoting ojas (Reply 94):
Yes the summers are unforgiving, but that is only during the months of June - September

And when exactly is the WC? Indeed! I know the Qatari want the WC to be organised on another date during one of their better periods, but don't count that Europe and South America are agreeing with that. Congratulations to Qatar anyway!

2018 final draw:
Russia (winner) 9, 13 votes
Spain/Portugal (second): 7,7 votes
Holland/Belgium (third): 4,2 votes
England already out in 1st round with 2 votes.   

2022 final draw:
Qatar (winner): 11,10,11,14 votes
USA (second): 3,5,6,8 votes
S-Korea (third): 4,5,5 votes
Japan (fourth): 3,2 votes
Australia (out in 1st round): 1 vote
Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
 
sw733
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:33 pm

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 103):
Qatar is a surprise


"Bid cities for Qatar: Doha, N. Doha, S. Doha, E. Doha, W. Doha, Central Doha, S Central Doha, NNW Doha, The Surface of the Sun"



"Russia and Qatar? Wait, is FIFA picking World Cup sites or settings for Call of Duty missions?"
 
srbmod
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:46 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 94):

For those of who you who are seriously ill informed about the weather conditions in Doha - Qatar need to "google" it out soon. Yes the summers are unforgiving, but that is only during the months of June - September. It gets pretty cold in winters and is very very pleasant during the months of Oct- Nov and Mar - April.

But the World Cup has been typically held in the June-July time period (a few started at the end of May). There's no way that FIFA will move the dates to better suit the weather, as to hold it any other time of the year would seriously impact the major football leagues. I highly doubt those leagues would suspend their seasons in order to fit the World Cup or continue playing without the players that are on their respective national teams. In addition, you think UEFA would suspend the cash cow that they have in the Champions League? The World Cup is traditionally held in the time period between seasons of the major football leagues. Major League Soccer is one of the few leagues whose schedule overlaps the World Cup.
 
Mir
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:04 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 94):
For those of who you who are seriously ill informed about the weather conditions in Doha - Qatar need to "google" it out soon. Yes the summers are unforgiving, but that is only during the months of June - September. It gets pretty cold in winters and is very very pleasant during the months of Oct- Nov and Mar - April.

And when it is that the World Cup will be played? Last I checked, it was during the months of June-September.

I suppose they could start matches late at night to ward off some of the heat - the European TV audience would still be able to watch. 7pm (4pm GMT), 10pm (7pm GMT), 1am (10pm GMT), etc.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:06 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
Which cities, apart from Moscow and St. Petersburg are suitable enough, and are they easily accesible to fans and staff (not to mention possible distances and time differences)?

That's what made me wonder if any of the delegates visited any city apart from Moscow or St Petersburg. Take Nizhny Novgorod which I'm pretty familiar with as an example, it's the forth largest city in Russia and a complete dump, there aren't any hotels which I would rate above a 3 star (at best) there are only 2-3 which most Europeans would want to stay in, the airport is crap, the previous direct flight to St Petes was dropped early this year, the so called fast train to Moscow isn't that fast, the downtown area is a dump, so is the uptown area around the Kremlin, transport within the city is terrible, traffic is typical Russia style crazy, the roads are poorly maintained, public transport is terrible, the metro doesn't go where most of the people need it to go, they need at least another 2-3 bridges over the river, it took nearly 10 years to build the newest one which only recently opened. As a tourist there is nothing much to do or see, very few decent places to eat, not shopping to speak of, to bring the city up to even moderate Western European standards would cost billions. Other cities like Yaroslavl, Volgograd and Samara are just as bad, if not worse.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 78):
Agreed - I think Russia is a great choice for 2018. . Domestic transport is pretty good by airline (and, to a lesser extent, train), security will be an issue but it usually is when a huge event is held anywhere.

Are you serious air transport in Russia is terrible, it's ok if you are starting or ending your trip in Moscow, if you want to go from anywhere to anywhere else 9 times out of 10 you have to transit through Moscow, there is bugger all point to point routes in Russia. Even the new slow fast train between St Petes, Moscow and Nizhny isn't that impressive.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 79):
Last time I paid $200 for a cab fare was in Moscow.

Next time just wave down a car, most inner city rides will cost 500 to 1000 RUB, generally a taxi from any of the airports to a central hotel will cost approx 1800 RUB. The only place I can think of where you would pay $200 from the airport to CBD is Oslo, taxis in Norway are scary expensive, taxis in Russia are dead cheap.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 93):
Unless you got on one of those Cayenne taxis, of course.

Or the pink Maybach.
 
bhill
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:23 pm

Me thinks it's time for FIFA to change the qualifying rules...how about only those countries that actually QUALIFY for the WC can bid? I would rather the petro-rich buy players contracts then the WC...kinda like American baseball and football....
Carpe Pices
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:39 pm

odd, the two best bids for 18/22 both finish last, yet FIFA still managed to pick Qatar which had an appalling report card...and Russia, well that place is as corrupt as FIFA itself.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:40 pm

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 108):
odd, the two best bids for 18/22 both finish last, yet FIFA still managed to pick Qatar which had an appalling report card...and Russia, well that place is as corrupt as FIFA itself.

Didn't a huge report on FIFA's corruption just come out 24 hours prior to the bid?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Jalap
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:43 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 92):
Secondly for those of you who think Qataris are not interested in football .... you need to know more. The qatari kids are virtually born with talent to play this sport.

No doubt they are football crazy, only problem is that their entire population fits into those 9 stadiums!
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:44 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 106):
Take Nizhny Novgorod which I'm pretty familiar with as an example, it's the forth largest city in Russia and a complete dump

Weird... I've been there so many times and fail to notice what you are talking about. BTW, is a 6.5 hour train ride to Moscow too long for you? There are trains leaving constantly both during the day and the night. Me thinks, someone had some weird bad experience over there. The walks in downtown are beautiful as well.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 106):
Other cities like Yaroslavl, Volgograd and Samara are just as bad, if not worse.

Um... ok then. When were you last in those cities? I don't understand where your comments are coming from. Very amusing actually.
 
cpd
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:47 pm

Time for wikileaks to release some info on FIFA!
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:52 pm

And just to add to the comment above - you might want to hop on the train that takes 3.5 hours as well. Runs about twice a day. Maybe that is fast enough?  
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 101):
150/night room with 4 sleeping places

Yea, unless there is a full American breakfast included along with some phenomenal Russian hospitality turn those prices into Rubles

    

I honestly cant believe that this happened and would have never suspected them to win Russia beccause of its current state and Qatar because of the heat. I knew there was corruption everywhere but I honestly never suspected FIFA...

Why were they both announced together? And when is the 2026 announcement?
 
Alias1024
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:11 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 105):
I suppose they could start matches late at night to ward off some of the heat - the European TV audience would still be able to watch. 7pm (4pm GMT), 10pm (7pm GMT), 1am (10pm GMT), etc.

I'm thinking this is what they will do, as it will make for good viewing times in Europe and Africa, and acceptable times in North and South America. What tourists are going to do during the day is totally beyond me.

Quoting bhill (Reply 107):
Me thinks it's time for FIFA to change the qualifying rules...how about only those countries that actually QUALIFY for the WC can bid?

Funny you should mention that. It is very likely that the US would not have been given the 1994 World Cup if we hadn't qualified for 1990. FIFA was very concerned about having a totally uncompetitive team in the tournament. The general sentiment was that if the US couldn't qualify for 1990, especially with CONCACAF powerhouse Mexico disqualified, the risk of embarrassment was just too high.

With Qatar ranked 113th in the world, I wonder what's changed in FIFA's thinking.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
tu204
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:20 pm

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 115):

Yea, unless there is a full American breakfast included along with some phenomenal Russian hospitality turn those prices into Rubles

Well, as for the condition of my flat, ask Superfly, he has been here (although he may have been too drunk to remember it)
Top notch 4 bedroom apartment. As for the service....well, my wife will not be THAT old    in 8 years. And I guarantee a good stay. 
BTW I am totally serious about this   All funds will go to my son's college account if he is not able to get a free seat at a University.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
aviationmaster
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:45 pm

While I would have loved to have seen England, Austalia or Portugal/Spain host the World Cup, I am also okay with Russia having been awarded it. At least Russia (incl. the days of the former USSR) has some sort of a footballing history, in which they've brought out some quality players over the course of time. As for Qatar? WTF!?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 117):
With Qatar ranked 113th in the world, I wonder what's changed in FIFA's thinking.

Easy.          and more   
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:27 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 109):
Didn't a huge report on FIFA's corruption just come out 24 hours prior to the bid?

There were multiple news reports about corruption in the MAFIFA throughout the last 3 weeks or so. And IIRC, the English boulevard papers (SUN and the lot) were the most vocal about it, which would explain why England finished last.

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 114):
I knew there was corruption everywhere but I honestly never suspected FIFA...

Then you haven't been following football very closely   . As someone said before, the MAFIFA is about the most corrupt organisation out there next to the IOC.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:42 pm

I just heard on the TV reports, that Australia spent $45 million over 3 years on this bid.

What a waste of money.

How any sporting bid can cost that much is totally ridiculous. The other losing contenders, together with Australia, must have spent close to, if not, over !100 million.

That is crazy   

And all this while there is so much fall out from the greatest financial crisis that most can remember.

The mind boggles .

[Edited 2010-12-02 14:43:11]
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
cpd
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:12 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 119):

What a waste of money

Indeed it's a waste of money - made worse by the fact that the winning countries knew well ahead of time they'd won. Pretty poor.  

The result is an outrage and questions should be asked about how these decisions were reached.

[Edited 2010-12-02 17:13:53]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:19 am

Russia, despite all the corruption, I can still understand as a choice. Russia still has something to offer in terms of football, like a rich football history, regardless of whether they wore CCCP, or they wear the Russian eagle. But Qatar has absolutely nothing to offer. Their national team is meaningless, even San Marino could easily beat them, and while the people appear to be crazy about football, it comes back to what I said, Qatar offers absolutely nothing in terms of football. The only thing they do offer is money for Joseph Septic Blatter and its cronies.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:01 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 120):
The result is an outrage and questions should be asked about how these decisions were reached.

These things have been happening for years and arguably decades. It's funny how it seems that you guys are getting outraged now.
 
cpd
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:33 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 122):
These things have been happening for years and arguably decades. It's funny how it seems that you guys are getting outraged now.

I've been outraged for years already. Not just now.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:14 am

Actually I feel rather sad for Russia.
They are a good host, rich footballtradition and will put on a great show, but being picked at the same time as Qatar and you know that this will be about one thing only, corruption.

Qatar is a disgrace.
The sooner we are rid of the likes of Blatter, Warner and Bin whatever the better. Thiose people are seriously tarnishing the sport.

Also England tend to forget a few things.
UEFA made a deal to support Germany for 2006 and then get behind England as its next candidate.
All countries agreed then England decided to go up against Germany for 2006. Since then they have very fragmented support in UEFA and several countries will not support them at all.
I think the choice of UEFA member Russia is part of the payback...

I screamed out loud when I read Qatar.
Pls pls pls let me see Israel qualify for this tournament and beat Qatar in the opener 3-0.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:15 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 116):
BTW I am totally serious about this   All funds will go to my son's college account if he is not able to get a free seat at a University.

Wow good on you mate, Ive been studying Russian for 2 years and I am very serious about going as this certainly gives me the excuse.

Back on topic all I can say is wow. I walked into my History class where my teacher always has his TV tuned to CNN during the class change, I saw Russia won the Bid in Bold letters for 2018 and good thing I did not decide to head to the Bathroom because just 20 seconds after I walked in the door, I saw the Qatar announcement live and all I could think is how... while unfortunately the rest of my classmates were thinking what the hell is Qatar proly some crazy Arab country who knows where? OMG the terrorists won its gonna be in Iraq -_-

I then proceeded to grab the globe and point it out to everyone including my teacher who though it was part of Saudi Arabia.

WEll whats done is done and what we can do now is hope for the best, Im sure that in 8 and 12 years there will be change.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:44 am

As others have mentioned, Russia I kind of understand but just doubt they will be ready in 8 years (and trust me, this is not being a sore loser - I was extremely thrilled when someone other than Spain/Portugal won the bid, so kudos to you, Russia).

As for Qatar, there are simply no words to describe the abomination this is. And with an absolutely dominant number of votes, no less.

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 114):
I knew there was corruption everywhere but I honestly never suspected FIFA...

Seriously, where have you been living for the past 80 years? Why do you think FIFA goes so violently against any country/person that decides to use civil courts in sports matters? Because they very well know if the Swiss ever get tired of hosting that corrupt organization and start investigating them a lot of people will have a really bad time...
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
JJJ
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:19 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 126):
I was extremely thrilled when someone other than Spain/Portugal won the bid, so kudos to you, Russia).

While I'm generally against this kind of big event spending, the stadia for the Sp/Pt bid are all there, the airports, transport infrastructure and hotels are already there and the football atmosphere is great.

OTOH, it was just fair that a country that had not hosted anything since the USSR era, and the Black Spider Yashin-led team that won an EC, two runners-up and a semis place in the WC still has a place in the collective memory of football. Even if there needs to be some massive (and quick) investment to get their facilities up to standards.

Then Qatar, that I cannot understand. Air-conditioned stadia? Special allowance for alcohol during the WC? WC in a 1-million people country?

That's just crazy.
 
speedbird9
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:56 am

Absolute disgrace that every country or joint bid bribed fifa except England and even when it gets revealed we still lose and we were promised atleast 7votes. suppose better luck next time lets try for 2026 com'on ENGLAND!!!!!
 
Thorben
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:57 am

I still don't see why so many people are so mad. Why not allow it to those that never had World Cups before? Qatar is a small country, but that isn't its fault. They wanted the cup, they made a great concept for it, so it is OK they got it. Russia isn't as modern in its infrastructure as many other countries, but they can make a World Cup possible. I think it would have been very unfair not to recognise this and give it to countries that already have had World Cups.

In addition, the US didn't get it for the same reasons the Olympics 2016 went to Rio instead of Chicago. You can not be a good host if you treat your guests like criminals. International sports events draw in many people from around the world, a lot also from Muslim countries, so it has to be in a place where they can go without trouble, too.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
bill142
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:14 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 127):

Then Qatar, that I cannot understand. Air-conditioned stadia? Special allowance for alcohol during the WC? WC in a 1-million people country?

The Qatar bid has to be more suspicious than then Russian one. There's clearly something dodgy going on here. All the other candidate countries have more experience with hosting these kinds of events. I mean for Australia to only get one vote, is clearly odd to me. If you look at how well we ran the 2000 Olympics, the Rugby Wold Cup in 2003 and no doubt the 2015 Cricket World Cup will be run, then if you include the quality of our infrastructure (roads, stadiums etc) then we're really at the top of the candidate nations. It all goes to show how corrupt FIFA really is.
 
Thorben
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:01 am

Quoting bill142 (Reply 130):
There's clearly something dodgy going on here. All the other candidate countries have more experience with hosting these kinds of events.

Doha had the Asia games 2006.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:12 am

Russia fair enough. But Qatar is a joke, a very bad joke.

The head of the Asia FA is from Qatar. fat cat and he and his mates bought the world cup to a country that is not fit to host it. This is a country the size of London and all matches should be played in the capital Doha.

In Doha we are supposed to see 200.000 hotelrooms anyone thats been there knows that this is not possible nor sustainable. Supporters wont be able to get hotelrooms not will they be able.

The entire thing just makes me sick. I dont know how much those voters got but I have no doubt their bank accounts are happy.
I would love Asia to get the world cup more often but a country the size of Essex with 1.5 million inhabitants???
There wont be infrastructure to cope with this.
I am sure Blatter is happy...
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:15 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 111):
Weird... I've been there so many times and fail to notice what you are talking about. BTW, is a 6.5 hour train ride to Moscow too long for you? There are trains leaving constantly both during the day and the night. Me thinks, someone had some weird bad experience over there. The walks in downtown are beautiful as well.

If you think Nizhny is a nice place you're a little odd, I'm there every 2-3 months, it is a dump and can't be compared to any Western European city of the same size. I've never had a bad experience in Nizhny, apart from a few cold showers, but the city is a tip. 6.5 hours on a train is far too long for what is supposed to be a fast train. Have you seen the airport?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 111):
Um... ok then. When were you last in those cities? I don't understand where your comments are coming from. Very amusing actually.

Yaroslavl 3 weeks ago, Samara early this year.

I enjoy going to Russia I always have fun when I am there but you simply can't compare any city in Russia (besides Moscow and St Petes) to any Western European city, they are dirty, run down, and decades behind, don't even get me started about the residential districts they are even more shocking.
 
Thorben
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:45 am

The more I think about it, the more I like it. Actually I would have preferred Spain/Portugal over Russia, but this is still a great choice, especially since Spain already had the cup in 1982. Also Portugal and Spain are not known for having the money right now.

Russia and Qatar both will get a boost out of this.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 132):
In Doha we are supposed to see 200.000 hotelrooms anyone thats been there knows that this is not possible nor sustainable.

They'll get it done, even with rather temporary ones and with hotel ships and things like that.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
ltbewr
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:51 am

One has to wonder as to the USA if our political positions throughtout the world, our wars in Iraq and Afganistan, our increasingly strict limits on access nto our country, all might have doomed us in the end.

That the UK will have the Summer Olympics in 2012, that there is a lot of security and costs factors already with them, may have killed off their chances.

I wonder if Russia will really host them in the end, especially if the Winter Olympics in Sochi have serious problems.

Qatar? We can't predict what the world will be like in 2022, that is 12 YEARS from now. I think this is more about symbolism toward the 'middle east' where Europe gets much of it's oil, fears that European and many other countries now and in the forseeable future cannot afford the stadium and security costs to hold the cup. By that time, perhaps countries like Qatar may be the only ones that could afford to host.
 
Thorben
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:24 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 135):
One has to wonder as to the USA if our political positions throughtout the world, our wars in Iraq and Afganistan, our increasingly strict limits on access nto our country, all might have doomed us in the end.

I think it is not the wars, it is rather the entry policy the US has for foreigners.

A Qatari entering the US has way more trouble than an American entering Qatar.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Severnaya
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RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:49 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 135):
I wonder if Russia will really host them in the end, especially if the Winter Olympics in Sochi have serious problems.

Sure  
Quoting qantas077 (Reply 108):
odd, the two best bids for 18/22 both finish last,

Two best bids? Based on what?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 106):
the so called fast train to Moscow isn't that fast,
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 133):
If you think Nizhny is a nice place you're a little odd, I'm there every 2-3 months, it is a dump and can't be compared to any Western European city of the same size. 6.5 hours on a train is far too long for what is supposed to be a fast train.

There are several really interesting places to visit in Nizhny. And you may be visiting it every 2-3 months, but that doesn't change the fact that the Moscow-N-Novgorod train takes less than 4 hours  
Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
 
Quokka
Posts: 1315
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:26 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:05 pm

Quoting speedbird9 (Reply 128):
every country or joint bid bribed fifa except England and even when it gets revealed we still lose

Do you know how much Australia paid in bribes? After all, you do say every country so I assume you have definite knowledge that Australia was also paying. That might explain how it reportedly cost over $45 million to launch the bid.

Disgraceful that bribery is the norm, yes. But hardly surprising that no-one votes for England when England raises the accusation. I can see that raising accusations after the ballot would have appeared to be been sour grapes, but raising it just days beforehand was like shooting oneself in the foot.

With Russia gaining the right to host 2018 I assume that the bureaucratic visa and entry requirements will have to be relaxed and made far more visitor-friendly than the present cumbersome arrangements. That can only be good for the growth in general tourism to Russia.
 
Severnaya
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:03 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:12 pm

Quoting Quokka (Reply 138):
With Russia gaining the right to host 2018 I assume that the bureaucratic visa and entry requirements will have to be relaxed and made far more visitor-friendly than the present cumbersome arrangements. That can only be good for the growth in general tourism to Russia.

Visas are currently fairly straightforward and not more difficult to get for foreigners entering Russia than Russians entering some other countries.

The RUS government has already announced that everyone having a ticket for the match will enjoy visa free travel to, and within Russia.

2018 however also is already on the agenda to be the year the visa requirements between Russia and the Schengen zone will be abolished, but that all depends on the willingness of certain Schengen countries opposing it.
Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:21 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 129):
You can not be a good host if you treat your guests like criminals. International sports events draw in many people from around the world, a lot also from Muslim countries, so it has to be in a place where they can go without trouble, too.

Clearly you have never been to the U.S. - I cross that border anywhere from 3 to 8 times a year and never had any problems whatsoever. When I wak down any street in NYC I see more diversity in national origins of people than in most European countries. Yes, if you are from some countries you will need a visa but that is a fairly straightforward process unless you're on the naughty list.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 136):
I think it is not the wars, it is rather the entry policy the US has for foreigners.

A Qatari entering the US has way more trouble than an American entering Qatar.

Have you ever tried to obtain a visa to Russia? Or tried to enter Qatar with an Israeli passport, for that matter?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:31 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 140):
Clearly you have never been to the U.S. - I cross that border anywhere from 3 to 8 times a year and never had any problems whatsoever. When I wak down any street in NYC I see more diversity in national origins of people than in most European countries. Yes, if you are from some countries you will need a visa but that is a fairly straightforward process unless you're on the naughty list.

I've been to the US at least five times and entered it a sixth time when coming from the Canadian side of the Niagara falls. I've been to many countries and I know what I'm talking about.

Don't make the US entry procedures look like something easy and enjoyable. They aren't. There were enough cases of people with absolutely clear conscience having a lot of trouble at the border. Plus this biometric issue.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 140):
Have you ever tried to obtain a visa to Russia?

Yep. Was very easy. Only thing I was unhappy with was how they spelled my name in Russian, but I guess they know their alphabet better than I do.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 140):
Or tried to enter Qatar with an Israeli passport, for that matter?

No sir, but I would guess getting the Israeli citizenship would be the hardest part of that.

Anyway, Israel is an interesting point. If they qualify, the Qataris will have to deal with it. But I guess they are willing to do that. Qatar is neither Saudi-Arabia nor Iran.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13184
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 140):
Have you ever tried to obtain a visa to Russia?

Putin announced ticket holders won't have to apply for a visa, they will also get free domestic transport. Getting a visa for Russia is pretty easy these days, it just takes a little time, not that ticket holders will need one.

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 137):
There are several really interesting places to visit in Nizhny.

The Kremlin, a couple of Cathedrals and the Pechersky Monastery, that's about it, nothing for football fans to get excited about. There will need to be a lot of hotel development, what's there now isn't good enough, ditto the airport.

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 137):
but that doesn't change the fact that the Moscow-N-Novgorod train takes less than 4 hours

I didn't say it took 6.5 hours Aeroflot777 did, but for a fast train 200kph is pretty slow, it's a pity the trains are capable of more but the track isn't.
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3212
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:25 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 126):
Russia I kind of understand but just doubt they will be ready in 8 years

Putin will not let it fail. Aid will be given even if private firms come upon hardships at any point.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 133):
If you think Nizhny is a nice place you're a little odd, I'm there every 2-3 months, it is a dump and can't be compared to any Western European city of the same size.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 133):
any city in Russia (besides Moscow and St Petes) to any Western European city

Ok, here's the problem... Why in God's name are you comparing secondary cities in Russia to any Western European counterpart? How big is Russia? Especially compared to any country in Western Europe. Colossal development can't happen everywhere at once. The rise of modern city infrastructure in these places didn't even start until mid 1990s. You simply can't put these places in the same sentence with Western Europe. Why grant the Cup to generic places that have already held the Cup? If anything, this will expedite the development process for the same cities you call a "dump". And by the way, these "dumps" often have a far more rich history than many smaller cities in Western Europe.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 134):
Russia and Qatar both will get a boost out of this.

Exactly. It would be a tad bit boring to have the games in a place that constantly gets huge events. People are so predictable... never want to venture out for new adventures.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 135):
I wonder if Russia will really host them in the end, especially if the Winter Olympics in Sochi have serious problems.

Have you been keeping up with the news? Seems like everything is on track. Where do you get this gibberish from?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 142):
The Kremlin, a couple of Cathedrals and the Pechersky Monastery, that's about it, nothing for football fans to get excited about.

Um... we'll then it's the loss for the football fans. If rich, history-packed cities aren't anything exciting - then I don't know what is. I can say the same thing about other country's bids too... What if England won? Milton Keynes, Sheffield, Sunderland, and Plymoth are also far from being a thrill to visit, right?  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 142):
I didn't say it took 6.5 hours Aeroflot777 did, but for a fast train 200kph is pretty slow, it's a pity the trains are capable of more but the track isn't.

What's the pity? No one has a problem with it. It's a comfortable train ride that offers a broad range of services. 6.5 hours for regular service and 3.5 for fast service is more than what's needed out of a train link. I'm still not understanding your argument.

[Edited 2010-12-03 11:26:11]
 
sw733
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:29 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 143):

Have you been keeping up with the news? Seems like everything is on track. Where do you get this gibberish from?

There's a popular sentiment in much of the western world that any country other than the "usual suspects" (USA, Canada, Western Europe, A/NZ, and Japan mostly) simply cannot make things work as well...and the unfounded concerns over things being done on-time for the South Africa games is a prime example. A lot of the western world figured there was no way a bunch of Africans could pull it off, but we Africans new otherwise...and we were right - the games were a great success.

So yeah, living in the USA not, I can tell you there has already been a lot of people saying there is no way Russia or Qatar can pull this off, it's too big of a project, blah blah blah. I think it's all poppycock, but it's still there.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:20 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 143):
Exactly. It would be a tad bit boring to have the games in a place that constantly gets huge events. People are so predictable... never want to venture out for new adventures.

Some, yes. I'm open to new adventures. I've been to Moscow some time ago and I loved, although I was very sceptic before. I have not yet been to Qatar, but I hope I can do it at some point.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5197
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:30 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 141):
Anyway, Israel is an interesting point. If they qualify, the Qataris will have to deal with it. But I guess they are willing to do that
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 124):
Pls pls pls let me see Israel qualify for this tournament and beat Qatar in the opener 3-0.

the two aren't exactly not talking, will be a none issue if Israel makes it.
 
Aeroflot001
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:43 am

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:36 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 126):
Seriously, where have you been living for the past 80 years?

Sorry Im only 17 and I never actually followed FIFA or did any digging into the whole corp. I just watched the cup and thats it.


Has a country that won the bidding process ever had their win rejected?
 
dc9northwest
Posts: 2270
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:33 am

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:11 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 135):
I wonder if Russia will really host them in the end, especially if the Winter Olympics in Sochi have serious problems.

Russia will have no problems hosting this World Cup. None. Let's be serious, South Africa did it without problems against all the naysayers. Russia has more tradition in football and more money.

Now, Qatar should also have no problems, but they'll have to pay people to fill the stadiums too. In Russia, that'll take care of itself.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 142):
The Kremlin, a couple of Cathedrals and the Pechersky Monastery, that's about it, nothing for football fans to get excited about. There will need to be a lot of hotel development, what's there now isn't good enough, ditto the airport.

That's about four more places to visit than you find in all of Qatar. Aside from all the typical fake oil stuff, which I do not consider.

OK. Qatar's stadia are air-conditioned... How about getting there? Will there be A/C limo service for everyone to inside the stadium? No? OK. Come on, who will decide to go to Qatar instead of waiting 4 years or going to Russia? What can you do the three days your team doesn't have a match? Sit in the hotel? You can't really walk outside given the heat. Horrible solution...

Massive failure on FIFA's part. But it's not like they care about the game at all. That's something everyone knows.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13184
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: Fifa 2018 And 2022 Decisions Soon

Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:19 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 143):
Why in God's name are you comparing secondary cities in Russia to any Western European counterpart?

Ok we'll compare these cities to secondary cities in Western Europe and they still lag decades behind.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 143):
Colossal development can't happen everywhere at once.

Have you been to China?

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