So I missed it myself and have just seen clips. 5 more parts to go on BBC , I suspect I will probably find it funny but a race row has broken out in the media today. Is this really racism?

Viewers protest at Matt Lucas and David Walliams's 'minstrel show': Comedy duo's new BBC spoof accused of being racist

Thousands of viewers have complained that the Christmas Day show by comedy duo Matt Lucas and David Walliams on BBC1 was racist.
The spoof documentary set in an airport and called Come Fly With Me featured the pair as a range of minority characters.
Lucas darkens his face and wears a beard to play a Muslim worker called Taaj. He also adopts a strong West Indian accent to play a black woman called Precious who works in the coffee shop.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...used-racism.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

WHAT!!!!

This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard!!!!!!!!!!

Do people not realise that an airport contains god knows how many races creeds and colours. This is how an airport is.

Im shaking my head that people can be so dumb and naive!

People never used to complain about this sort of thing around 15 years ago. Why can't people get a life and if you don't like it, turn the channel over. The comedy duo have done different sketches from different races for many years, of which I haven't heard of any complaints before. This is what Matt and David do the best, play a vast amount of characters.

Like the OP, I've only seen clips of the show so far, but what I've seen is hilarious.

Considering that Matt and Lucas make their bacon by exaggerating and poking fun at various stereotypes of people from the UK, wouldn't one be able to claim racism if they didn't include various immigrant minorities who are now as much a part of British society as white people?

I can see where people get upset over "black-face" comedy, as it has bad historical connotations, but on the other hand I think one goes too far by calling it a "minstrel show". The character Taaj, for example, might as well be a white guy from Essex. All they'd have to change was his skin color and make some adjustments to his accent. Therefore I think it's a stretch to call it racist. Insensitive, perhaps, but as I've mentioned, that's what Matt and Lucas do. Of course there's a limit to that as well, but I don't think this show crosses that line.

Cheers
Mats

I get increasingly frustrated by the country that I live in, I did watch the show and I found it hilarious, I think that people are over sensitive in this country and people jump on the bandwagon all too much, I don't think that the show was in any way racist and I have many Muslim friends that found the Taaj scene very funny

Basically on the whole I saw a lot of references to Airport the BBC Documentary and Airline based on EasyJet, I did wonder what some of the people that were lampooned in the show may think, but there was no malice in the way that the show was portrayed

There was certainly a lampoon of Kelvin (Canadian Airlines LHR) from Airport

Matt
MWHCVT

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 4): Kelvin

Thanks for jogging my memory, I've been racking my brain trying to think of his name.

Quoting sunshine79 (Reply 5): Thanks for jogging my memory, I've been racking my brain trying to think of his name.

Your welcome,

One of my favourites was the one clearly aimed at Stelios (Mr Easy) Under this seat life jacket, Under this seat life jacket, Under this seat life jacket soon) Thought I suppose that could have also been aimed at our dear old MOL

Matt
MWHCVT

Quoting sunshine79 (Reply 5):

As soon as I saw that clip I thought Kelvin lol..

I remember watching "Mind your language" as a kid. Today that show would start a riot. The P.C. culture is just getting insane. You can't even greet someone anymore without offending a couple of kooks.

What a ridiculous story, wouldn't expect any less from the "Daily Heil" though.

People seem to forget comedian Lenny Henry used to "white up" for comedy and nobody ever complained.

FWIW I thought the first episode was hilarious, certainly one of the funniest things to come out in a while. I love the way it totally rips off the "fly on the wall" airline documentaries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjulXkPrLtM

From 1:45  

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7): As soon as I saw that clip I thought Kelvin lol

Didnt we all Philip, didnt we all   

On a related note I complained over that terrible Irish accent & name of the airline "Our Lady Air"  

Quoting eicvd (Reply 10):

Haha Our Lady clip too funny  

Just think of the viewing figures for the BBC thought I mean how many a.netters were tuned in to watch, I have it on series link just in case I am out

Matt
MWHCVT

Here is a link :

http://www.littlebritainfans.com/comefly_episodes.htm

Does anyone know where I can watch the first one ?

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 12):

The viewing figures were something like 10.4million, gaining around 60% of the viewing for the time of night.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13): Does anyone know where I can watch the first one ?

See the link I posted earlier, it's split into 2 parts on YouTube.

Quoting noelg (Reply 15): See the link I posted earlier, it's split into 2 parts on YouTube.

Thanks missed that post  

As stated earlier, this appeared to be an amalgamation of airline and airport. What were they meant to do, just mimic the white characters ?

Anyone who phoned in to complain was totally missing the joke.

It's not racist, but it is lazy comedy that's not funny and re-hashing crap from the 70s under the guise of being post-modern. There's nothing original here, we're back in the dis-tasteful territory spear-headed by Bernard Manning (he's not the only one, but he's the one the media can remember).

I can't understand the idea that something we would condemn in any other situation is somehow acceptable, and even funny, when wrapped in a cloak of comedy...and feeble comedy at that. Blacking up would be rightly condemned in another context, yet here we have an upper class rich white man blacking up, saying 'praise the lord' at the end of every sentence, being incredibly lazy and shopping for bargains at the airport. This isn't promoting tollerance, expanding comedy or even making a joke, it's reinforcing negative stereotypes.

It's not like the jokes are racially benign (if so, I'd question why they'd need to dress up at all). The Japanese school girls are a horrible play on a stereotype; hideous facial make up altering their eyes and singing ('ting a ling ling') whist the other one grunts unintelligibly. Everything about this sketch is about the race. The joke is that they look and sound stupid.

For a long time this pair have lost any edgy humour and instead have found a lucrative formula in dressing up as a minority and exagerating stereotypes of that minority. I thought we got over this stuff years ago after this shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbldMCfjwq4&feature=related

Quoting noelg (Reply 15): See the link I posted earlier, it's split into 2 parts on YouTube.

Very funny watched all 3 parts and will not miss next week. Taag is so funny and can be seen in everyday life in Hounslow !  

Moses is so like Kelvin in Airport its amazing even the walk .

The Japenese school girls are really funny.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18): I can't understand the idea that something we would condemn in any other situation is somehow acceptable, and even funny, when wrapped in a cloak of comedy...and feeble comedy at that. Blacking up would be rightly condemned in another context, yet here we have an upper class rich white man blacking up, saying 'praise the lord' at the end of every sentence, being incredibly lazy and shopping for bargains at the airport. This isn't promoting tollerance, expanding comedy or even making a joke, it's reinforcing negative stereotypes. It's not like the jokes are racially benign (if so, I'd question why they'd need to dress up at all). The Japanese school girls are a horrible play on a stereotype;

I think your taking it a bit too seriously to be honest. My Fathers side of the family is Indian Guyanese and I remember him laughing when the two Ronnies ''browned'' up their faces and did Popodom rap over 20 years ago . You need to laugh at yourself as well as others. The problem these days is that everyone wants to be a victim and everyone wants to be offended! Sad times. There is a big difference between having a laugh and real racism , believe me I have experienced it !

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): The problem these days is that everyone wants to be a victim and everyone wants to be offended!

I'm not a victim and I'm not offended.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): You need to laugh at yourself as well as others

So why are these upper class middle aged white men dressing up as working class ethnic minorities and laughing at them?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19): There is a big difference between having a laugh and real racism

There's no difference between laughing at someone because of racial stereotypes, and racism.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 20): So why are these upper class middle aged white men dressing up as working class ethnic minorities and laughing at them?

Because it wouldnt be funny otherwise pure and simple. Same as a Man dressing up as a Woman. The two comedians dressed up as the white girls behind the check in desks are equally as funny. I suppose the people of the North of England could be offended because of the accents used.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 20): There's no difference between laughing at someone because of racial stereotypes, and racism.

Oh there is big time , are you telling me that because Im laughing at a sterotype of an Indian that Im racist against my Father and his family?

Quoting noelg (Reply 9): People seem to forget comedian Lenny Henry used to "white up" for comedy and nobody ever complained.

Whiting up is not racist, "blacking up" is. At least according to the rules of PC.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 22): Whiting up is not racist, "blacking up" is. At least according to the rules of PC.

What are you on about? The only people who say this are the ones who are apparently making it up to prove a point.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21): Because it wouldnt be funny otherwise pure and simple.

Nonsense. The only people who see humour in white people acting out negative stereotypes of minorities are racists.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21): Oh there is big time , are you telling me that because Im laughing at a sterotype of an Indian that Im racist against my Father and his family?

The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others

You tell me. Are the differences in our characters driven by race? Lucas and Walliams seem to think so.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23): The only people who see humour in white people acting out negative stereotypes of minorities are racists.

That would be quite a few people then, in fact your stereotyping with that comment.

There was a lot of sterotyping but none of it was truly negative. There was only one scene where a 'negative' stereotype/moment was shown, that was the coffee being thrown away, and that is only if you use the word ‘negative' loosely.

Personally I thought it was very funny.

That must make me a racist. Obviously.

[Edited 2010-12-28 18:35:38]

[Edited 2010-12-28 18:42:41]

This reminds me of the mess we are in over here in the US. Everyone has an agenda. You laugh, you are racist, whatever happened to comedy and laughing at people, all people? We all have negative stereotypes where race is concerned. Much of them as true as you can get.. Welcome to the Melting Pot of Modern Life.

This series fails on every measure of PC.

It offends people of different ethnic backgrounds; it is offensive to women; maintains the limp-wristed stereotype of gay men; and it reinforces the idea that Irish Catholics breed like rabbits because of the papal objection to contraception. I am sure an animal lover will have winced at the thought a poor little doggy was frozen and people would find that funny. And the child protection people will be up in arms over a baby being stored in the overhead locker.(Will they include a send-up of the Royal family?)

In short, the show has gone out of its way to offend every PC person on the planet. The rest of us just find it funny.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 26): It offends people of different ethnic backgrounds; it is offensive to women; maintains the limp-wristed stereotype of gay men; and it reinforces the idea that Irish Catholics breed like rabbits because of the papal objection to contraception. I am sure an animal lover will have winced at the thought a poor little doggy was frozen and people would find that funny. And the child protection people will be up in arms over a baby being stored in the overhead locker.(Will they include a send-up of the Royal family?)

And don't forget old people (who are shown as being smelly, manipulative, etc.) and (German, elderly) Jewish stereotypes too with Mrs. Wolf...

I just watched it on youtube. Mostly it is really funny (and the race/accent of the characters is largely irrelevant to the character types they depict anyway), though I do think some parts are more lazy and just play on stereotypes rather than twisting them and making you think, like really great humor dealing with culture and race can do. I thought the Japanese girls part was slightly cringeworthy, especially.

The best part was Williams's delivery of the line "I will not let you down, Mr. God!" by the Airline owner...awesome!

1. Ok, most of the show was actually quite lame and not very funny, as the accents weren´t quite spot on. The West Indian woman sounds more like an Indian, so i dunno what´s going on there.

2. Have you seen some of the comedy from the States It´s the same thing. It´s funny, and people from all corners of the earth are spoofed on, so how does that make one racist and the other not?

3. Racism and discrimination based on nationality are sometimes very different things. Either way, this isn´t it.

4. I can´t speak for others, but I am a West Indian, and we are a funny set. We are quite colourful in the way we speak and act, and usually comedies based on us are quite true though exxagerated, but that is the point. But I and am sure most other West Indians don´t find it a form of discrimination. We ourselves joke about the way we are. I am quite proud to be a West Indian.

Conclusion

Just relax folks, there are bigger things in life to worry about, racism being one of them, but when it is really racism, which according to Wikipedia is, " the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race are a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

I don't consider any of it racist, and people need to get over themselves. These guys take the piss out of everyone one way and another.


However, I don't think it is particularly funny. Really, really predictable low-cost-related material. Totally facile. Some airlines have fees and extras? Woooooo, push the boundaries there chaps why don't you.    A million people already made crap jokes about paying for life jackets etc, hardly anything new.

The thing is though, it is a comedy, and comedies take the mickey out of certain people. White people, black people, northerners, southerners, Americans, Australians, French, fat people, thin people, gay people, straight people - that's the point of a comedy!

Hell a lot of comedians from other countries take the pi$$ out of themselves, take Omid Djallili for example, Stephen K. Amos, a large part of their act is making jokes about their culture and people within it.

In the modern world we all integrate with one another, and there are people in every airport like those in this programme. The joy of this is that nobody is exempt from comedic jokes and we can all make fun of each other. It's not "black people" or "muslim people" being made fun of in this programme, more the individuals themselves.

And I'm sure that nobody complaining is either black or a muslim, which is the true indication of something being offensive. This whole PC thing usually has nothing to do with such communities, more normally made up that think they will be offended by it, if you ask those people themselves they would probably say this is a massive over reaction.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23): Nonsense. The only people who see humour in white people acting out negative stereotypes of minorities are racists.

Quoting U2380 (Reply 24): That would be quite a few people then, in fact your stereotyping with that comment.

Very true got it in one. My Dad saw it last night and thought it was funny also and he is a minority, in fact im more of a minority as both my parents are foreign. Under apartheid I would not be able to sit on the same areas as Whites ! I just get on with life and dont look for things to be racist or use the race card which alot of people do use these days, I notice it all the time.

Quoting captaink (Reply 28): . I can´t speak for others, but I am a West Indian, and we are a funny set. We are quite colourful in the way we speak and act, and usually comedies based on us are quite true though exxagerated, but that is the point. But I and am sure most other West Indians don´t find it a form of discrimination. We ourselves joke about the way we are. I am quite proud to be a West Indian.

Certainly are my Dad's family speak Caribbean English and I could listen to them for hours   Your right though the West Indian lacked something and I heard the Indian sounding slant also which kind of spoilt it a bit.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25): We all have negative stereotypes where race is concerned. Much of them as true as you can get

This is an overtly racist statement. Negative racial stereotypes are not largely true, they're racist characteratures. Black people aren't stupid, East Asian people aren't sly, Jewish people aren't greedy.

Which 'negative racial stereotypes' do you think are 'as true as you can get'?

Quoting Quokka (Reply 26): It offends people of different ethnic backgrounds; it is offensive to women; maintains the limp-wristed stereotype of gay men; and it reinforces the idea that Irish Catholics breed like rabbits because of the papal objection to contraception. I am sure an animal lover will have winced at the thought a poor little doggy was frozen and people would find that funny. And the child protection people will be up in arms over a baby being stored in the overhead locker.(Will they include a send-up of the Royal family?) In short, the show has gone out of its way to offend every PC person on the planet

I don't understand the view that political correctness is bad; it worries me that so many people think this. The type of people who say 'PC gone mad' are using it as a cover to attack minorities or people they don't agree with. Political correctness has made a difference in the UK. Around Birmingham the Tories (the party in power today) fought an election with the slogan 'if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour'. I remember growing up where the minorities were universally called 'Pakis', regardless of their ethnic origin.

Of course the tide goes in and the tide goes out, but we haven't reached a point where the tide should turn. The word 'gay' is still used pejoratively (even on national radio by Chris Moyles), newspapers still attack minorities simply for being minorities and white men can still black up in the name of 'comedy'.

'PC gone mad" is an invention of those on the right, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are portrayed look like killjoys.

If there's some fallout which means that some rich white men get in trouble for rubbish comedy, then that's a small price to pay for the huge improvements in the quality in life that millions see due to political correctness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKKPbNhTkL4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BZ1zL5wWrc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbldMCfjwq4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7gy0cz5AA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlA9vkM4KIc&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1mjR-Cfs10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tW8USvdb4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of9V8livhRc&feature=related

[Edited 2010-12-29 03:47:54]

I thought it was great - the 'Moses' character was meant to be that Qantas guy from Airport right?

BAguy

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 32): This is an overtly racist statement. Negative racial stereotypes are not largely true, they're racist characteratures. Black people aren't stupid, East Asian people aren't sly, Jewish people aren't greedy.

I don't mean to be presumptive, but who said black people are stupid? Who said East Asian people are sly, and Jewish people are greedy? Not one person on this thread has said this or even alluded to it, and as much as I found the programme highly funny, there was no implication of any of this in it, just 30 minutes of humorous entertainment.

Don't get me wrong, racism has absolutely no place in modern society, and some of the videos you posted (the Bernard Manning one in particular) are absolutely disgusting. That is downright racist and totally unacceptable, Mr. Manning couldn't even justify why "a black man has no place riding in a Jag".

However there is a difference in this programme. The difference being that this is a mickey take across all walks of society. Having a go at the Irish, Essex girls and people working in Burger King as well as people that happen to have a different skin colour. As an ex-burger flipper myself, I could take great offence in that bit, but I know it's only a joke. Where is the uproar from Essex?

The fact is, this sort of programme is only seen as "Non-PC" by those that choose to see it that way. Political correctness in itself can be racist, as the movement is largely made up of people thinking that minorities get offended by anything and everything, which is certainly not true. People are told what should offend them, which usually is completely the opposite from reality.

As I've already said, it is not aimed at having a go at one sort of person in particular, as it has a go at everybody! And once again, where are all the "outraged" Muslims and black people complaining about this? I think you will find that they are probably enjoying the programme as much as the rest of us, wondering what all the fuss is about from certain factions.

The use of 'blackface' or like acts by white performers as to those of color (African, Asian Indian, Asian herritage) is so hypersensitve, for good reasaon, that it has become unusable.

I suspect these performers may face some penalties for their depictions or at least be subject to greater review and censorship under drancoinan UK laws of proposed acts to prevent any fainancial or political fallout to the broadcasters.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 32): The type of people who say 'PC gone mad' are using it as a cover to attack minorities

It doesn't matter who a comedian is, he or she will offend someone.

To place Come Fly with me in the same category as those who organise neo-Nazi marches and shove petrol bombs through the letter boxes of migrants is a bit far-fetched. I could just as reasonably conclude from your repeated criticism of the comedians as "upper class middle aged white men" and "rich white men" that you were behind those who attacked Charlie. After all, he is rich and white.

I find it particularly funny that you can conclude that I wish to attack minorities. While living in the UK from 1972 to 1990 I was active in the Anti Nazi League and was involved in organising concerts under the banner "Rock Against Racism". I took part in two "Right to Work" marches as a representative of my union and was active in supporting the Miners under attack by Thatcher. I am opposed to immigration controls and everyone in Perth who knows me can confirm that I am highly critical of the Australian Governments approach to refugees. I am more your Guardian reader than a fan of the Daily Mail.

Oh, and I won't even hold it against you that the English side thrashed the Aussies to retain the Ashes!

I just think that people should lighten up and not read into things something that may not be there.


Edited to correct spelling.

[Edited 2010-12-29 04:45:50]

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 32): Around Birmingham the Tories (the party in power today) fought an election with the slogan 'if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour'.

Yes Peter Griffiths said that, in 1964..
That was real racism back then. This is not racism at all. This is an example of why many people say PC has gone mad, because some people now see everything as racist/sexist/discriminatory in some way, when it just isn't.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 32): Jewish people aren't greedy.

They aren’t necessarily flamboyant either. That character was modelled on Stelios Haji-Ioannou, seeing as he featured heavily in the series ‘airline’ which this entire program is based around.

Does this offend you in any way? It’s a similar concept...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2kVWLorLVE

Does this stereotype show all people that are female, white, middle aged and flight attendants as greedy?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 23): Quoting OA260 (Reply 21): Because it wouldnt be funny otherwise pure and simple. Nonsense. The only people who see humour in white people acting out negative stereotypes of minorities are racists.

The entire basis of comedy is to "act out the negative sterotypes of minorities". Comedians will always use a convenient minority as the foil to their humour, in a live show it might be the man with dreadful dress sense sitting in the front row, on a tv show it might be a persons physical size, their place of origin, their job.

One of the problems of humour is that it doesn't always translate into other languages. In the mid sixties I saw an example that was aimed at the problems on the roads in Germany but could be construed as racist by those who wished to.

Newsreader: "The Chinese minister for transport is on a visit to the Federal Republic to discuss roads and transport. It seems that he is very well received wherever he goes and his named is appearing everywhere. UM-LEI-TUNG"

Pan to road sign: "Umleitung"

Of course, "Umleitung", as anyone who has driven in Germany knows, means diversion. So we must ask ourselves, is this skit a racist attack or a comment on the abominable conditions on the roads at the time?

Check this black guy make fun of West Indians, Africans, other black americans and other nationalities. Was he racist? I thought it was a bit funny..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2D-WPRYwF0

or this dude, joking about Jamaicans and Puerto Ricans..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGw0lK_fIds&feature=related

I would like to hear what you guys think, because maybe being from another race or nationality you may not find it funny.

Reading this thread, two words spring to mind: "knickers" and "twist".

That being said the first edition of Come Fly With Me on Christmas Day was pretty feeble. With the exception of the Japanese teenage girls, none of the sketches was worth more than a weak smile. Where was the crispness of the first series of Little Britain? Walliams and Lucas are capable of better ... much better television.

This really gets my back up when people complain that things like this are racist. I for one do not think it was. They did not have any negative connotations with any of the characters or anything like that.

I did think the show was tripe though. I was really disappointed because I LOVE Little Britain and was really looking forward to it. It let me down big time!

Well if laughing at other people and their silliness makes me racist, then fine - I'm racist.

Who cares?

Quoting noelg (Reply 34): I don't mean to be presumptive, but who said black people are stupid? Who said East Asian people are sly, and Jewish people are greedy? Not one person on this thread has said this or even alluded to it,

Quoting WarRI1:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 25): We all have negative stereotypes where race is concerned. Much of them as true as you can get.

He seems to think that negative racial stereotypes are largely true. I listed a few common ones and asked him which of those are true. Until he comes back to says which negative racial sterotypes he thinks are true one must conclude that the statement was overtly racist.

Quoting U2380 (Reply 37): Yes Peter Griffiths said that, in 1964.. That was real racism back then. This is not racism at all. This is an example of why many people say PC has gone mad, because some people now see everything as racist/sexist/discriminatory in some way, when it just isn't.

The point is that political correctness has allowed the great majority in the bell curve of views to say that the tail of racism is absolutely wrong. Political correctness has driven nutters like this out of mainstream politics, and mainstream society in general, which is a good thing. Those who bash political correctness use it as a means of attacking a way of thinking which prevents racist behaviour and improves the quality of life for millions. They are usually the people who simply want to attack minorities.

In this programme we have a sketch (the Japanese girls) where the entire comedy is based on their race. There's nothing else to it, only their race. I fail to see anything positive in the sketch, therefore the sketch is racist, surely?

Why was blackface deemed racist after the 70s, but not today 40 years later?

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 38): The entire basis of comedy is to "act out the negative sterotypes of minorities"

Are you seriously suggesting that the only things you find funny are jokes that take the piss out of the perceived negative qualities of minorities? In your view, what's the funniest joke you know about black people? What about homosexuals?

It seems you've invented your own definition of comedy, which is fine, but it appears that you limit the definition of comedy to attacking minorities. I find it worrying that you only laugh at minority groups, for (what you see as) their negative qualities.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18): It's not racist, but it is lazy comedy

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18): this pair have lost any edgy humour and instead have found a lucrative formula in dressing up as a minority and exagerating stereotypes of that minority.

  

Didn't see the program in question so cannot comment specifically, but thoroughly agree with you when thinking about their Little Britain stuff.

Mark

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44): I fail to see anything positive in the sketch, therefore the sketch is racist, surely?

No. It's not racist, at no time were Japanese tourists shown to be inferior in any way, at no point were they shown to be discriminated against because they were Japanese.

Anyway were you not the one saying that the show wasn't racist in the first place?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 18): It's not racist, but it is lazy comedy

I thought it was a pretty good show, and I'm looking forward to the next instalment! However I don't think the show is racist; I'm sure the comedy angle of Lucas and Walliams was to take the mickey out of racist people. E.g. Marjorie Dawes and Meera.

Quoting MWHCVT (Reply 4): There was certainly a lampoon of Kelvin (Canadian Airlines LHR) from Airport

That's exactly what I thought!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 32): 'PC gone mad" is an invention of those on the right, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are portrayed look like killjoys.

Generally speaking, this is completely true.

Like with the whole Golliwog thing. Just because golliwogs make some people think of their youth doesn't mean that they aren't blatantly offensive, and that calling black people Golliwog is fine. Or when it usually turns out that the leaders of UKIP etc. who spend all day railing against PC turn out to be nutters who really believe that women should shut up and be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, and so forth. Or on this board, when a couple of years ago someone claimed that people making monkey chants at black soccer players were just exercising their protest against political correctness. Or Jimmy Carr making jokes that amount to "Gypsies smell bad" that in the mouth of a schoolyard bully make children cry, but when presented by a grown comedian as edgy and "against PC" are somehow "brave" or even "clever"--my ass.

You can also see that anti-PC is often just a cheap excuse for old-fashioned racism if you go to places (such as much of central/Eastern Europe, and I'm sure many other places) where they have the backlash against PC without ever having had the actual PC itself, so that stopping people from saying things akin to the Tories' 1964 Birmingham campaign slogan is framed as "politically correct nonsense"...

As for blacking up, it is true that it taps into a long and undignified tradition, with very racist roots, and a very long history of power relations in the media and society. That is why it inherently makes some people cringe. But I believe that it can be reclaimed more neutrally (just as flags can be reclaimed from the way racists have used them, etc.). In a case where two actors play EVERY character, male, female, young, old, white, brown, black, the situation us somewhat new, and need not be read as a "minstrel show"--it seems most minority viewers do not take offense. As others have noted, the Catholic stereotypes and others are actually more lazy and potentially offensive than the ones involving skin color in this show.

In other words, I think people should be careful not to take things too far. If you have a situation where no one or very few people from the ethnic (or other) group itself is actually offended, then usually it is silly for others to get offended on their behalf. This is especially true when a comedian is really making fun of the people who hold the stereotypes, or otherwise putting a truly new and bizarre twist. Sarah Silverman is a case in point. Sometimes she is funny by just being so blatant that it is obviously a send-up of the racist (the Mexicans are smelly jokes), not the race; other times, she actually forces people to confront what it is that offends them and why, and the fact that racism can seem benign. (Hence the "I love Chinks" courtroom joke...). You can usually tell how a comedian really feels: note for example that Silverman actually protests against real racism from Fox News etc.

Quoting seemyseems (Reply 47): 'm sure the comedy angle of Lucas and Walliams was to take the mickey out of racist people. E.g. Marjorie Dawes and Meera.

Right. Note for example that they make fun of the paparazzi in "Come Fly With Me" for calling Mel B "the black one" and Mel C "the lezzie one" while they know the names of the other spice girls. Here they are actually subtly mocking they way black people or gay people can be treated only as representatives of their groups, while those in the majority are de facto treated as individuals.

Borat is another example...he is perhaps legitimately offensive to Kazakhstanis, but the other groups who have occasionally taken offense should actually be thinking him for pillorying and exposing sexism and racism and other prejudice in society.

Anyway, at the end of the day, I found "Come Fly With Me" to be funny in some parts, in others uncreatively stereotypical, but even at its worst, it is a far cry from Bernard Manning or for that matter Jimmy Carr.

Hardly worth an uproar.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 38): The entire basis of comedy is to "act out the negative sterotypes of minorities".

??? Only a small (and I would say utterly uninspired portion of comedy does this...

Quoting U2380 (Reply 37): Does this offend you in any way? It%u2019s a similar concept... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2kVW...orLVE

Always loved that sketch. Williams and Lucas did really steal it for some of the jokes here.

[Edited 2010-12-30 18:57:01]

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 44): He seems to think that negative racial stereotypes are largely true. I listed a few common ones and asked him which of those are true. Until he comes back to says which negative racial sterotypes he thinks are true one must conclude that the statement was overtly racist.

We were talking a comedy program, not racial hatred. I will stick to my statement, that most racial stereotypes in comedy are not only funny, but mostly true. I am of Italian heritage, do I go around crying over every negative comedy routine about Italians, of course not, it is silly, most of them are based by traits that we of Italian Heritage have. . Deal with it, I do and laugh. When we can no longer laugh at ourselves, we are pathetic.