OK now this just rubs me absolutely raw. Notwithstanding the fact that part of the beauty of literature is that it allows us to see snapshots of life at the time a work was written, or that authors write with the intention of preserving a work for posterity...but this is just mind-numbingly dumb!!

What is a word worth? According to Publishers Weekly, NewSouth Books' upcoming edition of Mark Twain's seminal novel "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" will remove all instances of the N-word -- I'll give you a hint, it's not nonesuch -- present in the text and replace it with slave.

The new book will also remove usage of the word Injun. The effort is spearheaded by Twain expert Alan Gribben, who says his PC-ified version is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/01/04/new.huck.finn.ew/index.html

Don't give me all this gobbledy-gook about more kids being able to read a modified version. The whole point of learning about different contexts and historical times is to see how the connotations of words matter, how those meanings have changed, and the like. How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

And if this guy was such an expert on Twain, surely he'd heed the man's words: better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): The new book will also remove usage of the word Injun.

How many kids would even know what that means?

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): The effort is spearheaded by Twain expert Alan Gribben, who says his PC-ified version is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

Usually "updating" a classic creates a steaming pile of crap.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): Don't give me all this gobbledy-gook about more kids being able to read a modified version. The whole point of learning about different contexts and historical times is to see how the connotations of words matter, how those meanings have changed, and the like. How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

Sounds like your anger should be directed at those who do the censoring, not at this editor. Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from.

He's admitted that this particular version is not for everybody, and that people should read the original text if at all possible.

-Mir

Quoting Mir (Reply 2): Sounds like your anger should be directed at those who do the censoring, not at this editor. Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from. He's admitted that this particular version is not for everybody, and that people should read the original text if at all possible.

So not "PC gone amok" at all. End of thread.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2): Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from.

Honestly, that's a load of bullshit. I read it in high school, uncensored and all (this was in the middle of the previous round of efforts to censor the book, about 7 or 8 years ago). Trust me when I say that reading the "modified" version completely and utterly takes away the entire point of the book. I was more disturbed by the Duke and King storyline than some silly words.

Next item: remove the chapters where Huck dresses up as a girl. Something about promoting homosexuality will be the excuse. Heck, it's probably been done before.

There is no choice. It's all or nothing.... and I'd be willing to bet the schools who don't teach it just because of the language will be some of the worst performing schools in the country.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3): So not "PC gone amok" at all

You're right: it's totalitarianism run amok. All these people want to do is control exactly what people can and can't read. You start with the kids, because they're the most influenced, and will take that influence to the next generation of kids. So on and so forth.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4): I read it in high school, uncensored and all

Good. That's the way it should be. But that's not the way it is.

The question to be asked here is not "why is this guy dumbing down Huck Finn to meet some PC standard?", but rather "should we really be censoring Huck Finn out of schools in the first place?" Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

-Mir

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3): So not "PC gone amok" at all

No it still is - this shouldn't be done, period. You don't modify literature.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5): Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

Why do anything that further rationalizes such atrocious educational policy??

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

How do you update a classic??? Doesn't that make it, oh I dunno, not a classic anymore?!

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): and replace it with slave.

Wow. Is that even better?

Quoting Mir (Reply 5): The question to be asked here is not "why is this guy dumbing down Huck Finn to meet some PC standard?", but rather "should we really be censoring Huck Finn out of schools in the first place?" Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

   Therein lies the issue. If ignoramuses would simply stop demanding that certain books be banned, we wouldn't even need to be having this discussion. Unfortunately, too few people in this world truly understand that education will sometimes lead us down dangerous pathways that will shake us to our very core and force us to question our beliefs. That is the beauty of education, yet some would rather bury their heads in the sand than expose themselves to wonderful new ideas.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6): Why do anything that further rationalizes such atrocious educational policy??

I'm torn by this whole thing. One the one hand, I am in full agreement with you. Literature should not be banned because it "promotes" un-Christian ideals (i.e. Bless Me Ultima) or because it discusses in detail that which we'd rather pretend never happened (i.e. Native Son, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, or To Kill a Mockingbird). On the other hand, I would prefer as many children as possible to be exposed to works such as Huck Finn even if it means that they must read a "sanitized" version. Still, I think the half-wits that are the reason behind this sort of sanitization need to just suck it up and accept that literature is a byproduct of its time, and sometimes it will deal with subject matter that is now taboo controversial, but was then considered the norm.

Today, watering down Huck Finn, tommorrow, the Three Stooges and the Twilight Zone being banned. Maybe I'm getting old, (54 years young) but, the world in general is in the midst of a malignant case of CSDD

Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy.
Common Sense Defecit Disorder And that my friends is how all this PC shit spreads like flies to a pile of turds and we get such so called talent as Justin Bieber, Ke$ha and even loudmouth Lady Ga Ga.
  

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 7): How do you update a classic???

Easy. At the bottom of the first page you print " Reprinted January 2011".
Heck, Ted Turner gets away with it in film all the time.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

I'm surprised that the anti-tobacco contingent hasn't spoken out about Hucks corncob pipe.
Assuming it was filled with tobacco.   

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

Who the hell updates a "classic?"

Unbedamnlievable. I read that book in like 4th grade in Catholic school (yes, those evil bastions of right-wing lunacy), unabridged, but beforehand we had a long discussion about the negativity of the N-word and its terrible place in history.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Just saying.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9): Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy.

And the "Frito Bandito".
But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12): But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.

Because it's perfectly okay for kids to steal.

It's also perfectly okay to taunt, harass, and make animals suffer.

Also, eating breakfast cereal is like crack. It'll make you bonkers!

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 7): How do you update a classic???

Exactly. You don't 'update' a classic by meddling with its content in this way, you ruin it. Pure and simple. Absolutely disgraceful.

First of all, this version is not the only one available, but an alternative version so it can be used in schools without any of the hassles from parents or those offended by these words. In all but a few libraries, bookstores and probably on the Internet, one can find the original version to read on their own.

Educators are under enough pressure to do their jobs from a wide range of interests so why not use a cleaned up version to teach a classic story to teach it's valuable lessons including showing the friendship of persons of different races which we still badly need in our society.

I would hope that this version has a preface noting the reasons for the removal of the 'n-word' and other words. Further it should note and be discussed in classrooms the historical and other reasons why Twain used the offensive words in his original work.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11): Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Just saying.

whitey! kike!

need one say more?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 15): but an alternative version so it can be used in schools without any of the hassles from parents or those offended by these words.

But that is part of the major problem here - the way I see it, fools like that should not be caved in to. There should be no soft option here, and there should be no perversion of classic literature just to appease ultra-PC morons. Let them teach their spawn at home if they are so stupid that they can't understand the value of studying works in their original form.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12): But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on.

All that crap from the indian tribes and Notre Dame still gets to be the Fighting Irish?

Quoting jwenting (Reply 16): whitey!

Then there is the American restaurant chain called Cracker Barrel. The funny part is that the name is very descriptive.

The funny part about all of this is that the child will probably go home and listen to some hip-hop record that has the n-word all over it. Children know how to use YouTube and can find whatever they want.

This seems like a play, to appease the lawyers and sell more books to schools. If Twain wasn't already dead, he'd die laughing at this situation.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12): But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): Notre Dame still gets to be the Fighting Irish?

Thats easy to figure out. The only group you can make fun of without being called a bigot is white men. If the Irish were any other color, but white, that stuff would have been gone a long time ago.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 19): sell more books to schools

That makes the most sense.... They will also be sold at prices much higher than the local book store. It is amazing how much money schools and businesses waste buying from specialty businesses because they will except a purchase order. I see how much our district wastes ordering stuff that way, if they had a person who would just drive around in a van and go to regular retailers paying with a credit card they could save a lot of time, paper work ,and money.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): The funny part is that the name is very descriptive

Yep, making fun of the white man is ok, but if you made fun of a person who wasn't white the mods would delete that post in a second.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4): There is no choice. It's all or nothing.... and I'd be willing to bet the schools who don't teach it just because of the language will be some of the worst performing schools in the country.

You might be surpirsed, I worked in a rough school, in a black area, that was VERY low performing and we used a lot of teaching aids and materials that were revelant to what our students knew. When they read a book we wanted to make sure they were reading a book that was something they could relate to. There were things we used to get lessons across that would never fly in stuffy white school (like where I work now). The goal was to keep students engaged and in school. I once taught a class about employability and the the book was filled with pictures of white and asian kids. The kids hated the book and didn't pay much attention. When I changed the class to some things that some local businesses sugested and had local people come in to talk about their jobs everyone paid attention.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 19): The funny part about all of this is that the child will probably go home and listen to some hip-hop record that has the n-word all over it

I used to teach in Detroit and I heard the "N-word" dozens of times a day. I once kept count with a small hand held counter. I heard Nigger or Nigga 77 times in one day. It was so widespread that I had students who said I was their nigga, on a regular basis. Those were good students and that was to be taken as a compliment.

There was a difference between the words. If a student called somebody a nigger it was angry and usually led to a fight, or was used to describe somebody the student didn't like. If the student used nigga, it was a friendly word that was a compliment.

Words change and progress over time and not just this word. Language continues to evolve and always will.

It's fine. The word has not use in society. I say, yeah good re-edit huck finn. The controversy itself is poison. It teaches the kid the harm, and perverse power of the word. Kind of like showing them how to smoke crack.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20): Those were good students and that was to be taken as a compliment.

They may be good students, but they will never EVER get a job behaving like that. Anyone who uses the word in a media or blog post, or in a photo online, will never work a day in their life.

If a person wants no job, then fine, go ahead and use the n-word a lot.

Interesting. In this thread, I see people writing "the n-word" but never actually coming out and saying "nigger." That is the actual word we are talking about, right? Why buy into this censorship BS by continuing to censor that one word that was origionally used in literature? IMHO, if words are used in a historical context, use the whole word. Twain actually used the word "nigger" because that is what America was like back then. Get over it. Why do we need a sanitized version of history? Isn't Germany going through the same thing with WWII?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21): The word has not use in society

But it did at one time, so why pretend otherwise? Would you prefer that we just ignored the past altogether and learnt nothing from comparing then with now? Something which literature of the time helps us do? Butchering classics like this will do nothing to stop racists using offensive words, and will do everything to stop people learning about a certain period in history, and understanding why writers wrote what they did, and perhaps most importantly - why we don't act and speak the same now!

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):

I see your point, but where does it stop? Next thing may be the government and society dictating what we can read.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22): Interesting. In this thread, I see people writing "the n-word" but never actually coming out and saying "nigger." That is the actual word we are talking about, right? Why buy into this censorship BS by continuing to censor that one word that was origionally used in literature? IMHO, if words are used in a historical context, use the whole word. Twain actually used the word "nigger" because that is what America was like back then. Get over it.

That's what I noticed about 4 or 5 posts in. Why in this thread about the word nigger do people shy away from it, or use n-word or other sanitized versions when the thread is about the very use of the word nigger. It kind of proves a point from the editor/author about having people reading Huck Finn with the word slave in substitution. Is a classic really a classic if no one is reading it? Isn't reading the book with slave vs. nigger better than not reading it at all?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 8): Still, I think the half-wits that are the reason behind this sort of sanitization need to just suck it up and accept that literature is a byproduct of its time, and sometimes it will deal with subject matter that is now taboo controversial, but was then considered the norm.

Yes sir   

Quoting hka098 (Reply 19): This seems like a play, to appease the lawyers and sell more books to schools.

You know that's an interesting angle - I bet this guy just wants to go to the top of the "Twain expert" pack and sell books.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22): Interesting. In this thread, I see people writing "the n-word" but never actually coming out and saying "nigger."

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25): Why in this thread about the word nigger do people shy away from it, or use n-word or other sanitized versions when the thread is about the very use of the word nigger.

Because that's how the media refers to it - since they carry the PC torch for us all.

To all the people here who seem outraged that they would consider updating the book to meet some "PC Standard", it's not all that uncommon... Sure you should read the original if you could, but what is wrong with updating the language and wording? One big example of updating a historical work that comes to mind is the BIBLE... The NIV (New International Version) of the Bible was released in the 1970's and is now one of the most popular versions in history. They won't stop printing all copies of the traditional version but will instead give the reader a choice into what they would rather read...

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9): PC shit

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9): Lady Ga Ga.

I wouldn't call Lady Gaga "PC" by any means.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25): Why in this thread about the word nigger do people shy away from it, or use n-word or other sanitized versions when the thread is about the very use of the word nigger.

Simple - because many people dislike the use of that word.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 25): It kind of proves a point from the editor/author about having people reading Huck Finn with the word slave in substitution. Is a classic really a classic if no one is reading it?

No, it doesn't prove a point. People don't like using the word. That doesn't mean they object to its use in literature.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): Sans "N" Word

And you are being politically correct by this. Why not just priny what tou mean, they want to remove the word nigger.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 29): And you are being politically correct by this.

Like irony or sarcasm much??  

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20): Yep, making fun of the white man is ok, but if you made fun of a person who wasn't white the mods would delete that post in a second.

I only remember seeing one black guy at a Cracker Barrel, and he was an employee. This struck me as being funny. And know what else I thought was funny? The Church's Chicken across the street from Malcom X college in Chicago.

[Edited 2011-01-06 11:40:32]

And I'll bet that most of these people that are offended by the Mark Twain version of Huck Finn go and listen to stand-up comedy and laugh at ever reference to any race or creed used by the comedian.

IMHO if you laugh at comedy and listen to Rap music, then you shouldn't be offended by anything printed in books especially when they were written during a period when the country was actually like that. As mentioned previously, let us not change history but learn from it.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22): I see people writing "the n-word" but never actually coming out and saying "nigger."

Once a piece of information is placed on the Internet, it never leaves, it can never be deleted.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6): Why do anything that further rationalizes such atrocious educational policy??

Because he feels that, for the kids, reading edited Twain is better than reading no Twain. I don't necessarily agree with him - like OA260, I'm torn by this whole thing - but there is a certain logic in what he's trying to do.

-Mir

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21): They may be good students, but they will never EVER get a job behaving like that.

A lot of people act different in school and around their friends than they ever would at work. I have been known to use bad language and tell dirty jokes. I don't say that stuff at work.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 33): Once a piece of information is placed on the Internet, it never leaves, it can never be deleted.

Are people that paranoid that they think people are going to go trolling through airliners.net to look for any inproper thoughts?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 35): Are people that paranoid that they think people are going to go trolling through airliners.net to look for any inproper thoughts?

I don't know. There can be anyone from anywhere on these forums. I'll err on the side of caution.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9): Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy.

My wife took her "talking Taco Bell Chihuahuas out about a month ago to show to our "grand-niece". All five still worked. "Drop the Chalupa"!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): Then there is the American restaurant chain called Cracker Barrel. The funny part is that the name is very descriptive.

Very descriptive! At the time Mark Twain was writing Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer crackers were stored in barrels. Why do you think the picture of a barrel is on their logo?

Who is anyone kidding? Does anyone thing removing it from this book is gonna shield kids from the word "nigger?" Because most kids (or at least at my school) heard this word everyday and in music (not even in a bad way.) You can argue that Huck Finn shows the history behind the word--that it is a BAD word, because nowadays, I almost always hear the word in a positive context.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 24): I see your point, but where does it stop? Next thing may be the government and society dictating what we can read.

Woah woah woah woah.

Let me make something clear, and I'm going to say it in caps:

NOBODY IS BANNING THE ORIGINAL MARK TWAIN BOOKS

If you want to read them, go to the bookstore, library, or download it. They're still available. This is one version, it's a crappy version, it's not going to last, and it's most certainly NOT the government at work.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

The same place where they learn about sex.
.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): All that crap from the indian tribes

Hey! They're Native Americans !

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20): Yep, making fun of the white man is ok, but if you made fun of a person who wasn't white the mods would delete that post in a second.

Well, that depends on what time of day you post it and which Mod is screening. It's taken them two days to delete some of the crap I've posted.
And, us caucasians can do some pretty lame things that are quite joke worthy.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22): Isn't Germany going through the same thing with WWII?

And the backlash of that is the skinheads.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 28): Simple - because many people dislike the use of that word.

What I don't understand is why so many young people have no problem blasting Rap and Hip Hop lyrics in public with every other word being "Nigga"?
Conversely, John Lennon released a song titled "Woman is the nigger of the World" which relates to slavery.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31): I only remember seeing one black guy at a Cracker Barrel, and he was an employee.

Can you imagine the reaction he gets when a friend or family member asks where he works.
I'd have a hard time not LMAO.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 35): I have been known to use bad language and tell dirty jokes.

Have you considered a career in the Navy?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 35): I don't say that stuff at work.

Aw, forget it.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 38): Because most kids (or at least at my school) heard this word everyday and in music (not even in a bad way.)

So, exactly how is it used in a good way?

I think this subject is a good question to ask...

Ok, I am dating myself here, but what age group of kids are we talking about here, because I cannot remember what grade I read this in? On that note, what is the point in keeping the word "nigger" in the text for the school kids to read? Is it that important that we force kids to read a word that might offend some youth, does it change the story in any way if you subsitute the word? How would some people here feel if their kid was reading "faggot", "spic" "Kike" etc. and people refused to have it removed from the text? How many people here that are against this are actually black? I would ask their point of view, before I started ranting about how I feel about it? The word "nigger" is an oppressive word, and if black people wish to use it, that is their choice, just as if gay people called each other faggot, but it does not mean we should make kids in school uncomfortable due to having to read these words in books. It is all about moving forward in life, not moving backward. As Doc said, nobody is banning the original, you can still buy it if you want.
Stay Safe!

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): Ok, I am dating myself here, but what age group of kids are we talking about here

High school. Usually juniors or seniors (I read it in school senior year, although I had read it when I was 13 on my own), so anywhere from 15-18. So, basically, not "kids".

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): On that note, what is the point in keeping the word "nigger" in the text for the school kids to read?

Because that's how the book was written. How would you like it if someone forced you to change your Anet username, because they felt it offensive?

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): Is it that important that we force kids to read a word that might offend some youth, does it change the story in any way if you subsitute the word?

Is it really that important that we not offend someone?

I say to those offended: "Get the f*ck over it." And I drop the f-bomb, every time. Because they need to know that you cannot control people.

And yes, it does change the story. It doesn't change the plot, but it changes a lot of the message.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): How would some people here feel if their kid was reading "faggot", "spic" "Kike" etc. and people refused to have it removed from the text?

Anyone not bothered by "nigger" isn't going to be bothered by any other slur. We read and teach books in schools for their educational value, not because they may or may not have offensive words.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): The word "nigger" is an oppressive word, and if black people wish to use it, that is their choice, just as if gay people called each other faggot

And this is where the "anti-niggers" fail the lesson being taught. Doing that only serves to increase the divide and tension between people. We need inclusion, not exclusion.

As a straight white person, I have said nigger in front of my black friends, and have called gay friends faggots. Wanna know what happened? They laughed. It really doesn't matter. People need to get off their high horses, pull the sticks out of their asses, and get on with life.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 41): On that note, what is the point in keeping the word "nigger" in the text for the school kids to read?

Because that was how it was at the time of writing, and removing it and pretending otherwise doesn't alter that. But, if you read the thread, this has all been covered ad nauseam in some detail now, so I'm not sure why you even pose the question.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39): NOBODY IS BANNING THE ORIGINAL MARK TWAIN BOOKS

Never said they were. Government encroachment on anything happens in a very small, very measured process.

DeltaMD90's comment is spot-on. "Who is anyone kidding?". This action is to please the lawyers, avoid lawsuits and make a quick buck.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42): High school. Usually juniors or seniors (I read it in school senior year, although I had read it when I was 13 on my own), so anywhere from 15-18. So, basically, not "kids".

Ok, I was thinking 11-12 y/o, my bad.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42): Because that's how the book was written. How would you like it if someone forced you to change your Anet username, because they felt it offensive?

Ok, who who get offended at Mudboy? 

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 42): As a straight white person, I have said nigger in front of my black friends, and have called gay friends faggots. Wanna know what happened? They laughed. It really doesn't matter. People need to get off their high horses, pull the sticks out of their asses, and get on with life.

See I am from the Mississippi Delta where it is 70% black, so it would not be wise for me to even have the word in my vocabulary, which it is not, unless I want to get shot?  
I guess I am a little more sympathetic, due to where I am from, where as somone from a different part of the country has a different point of view.
Point taken on your argument.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 40): The same place where they learn about sex

by watching dirty videos and reading dirty magazines the way I did.

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 40): Have you considered a career in the Navy?

I did actually. My spinal deformity kept me out...

Let me ask this question, then: Why is the media so up in arms going so far as to not even say nigger, but still they are acceptable with saying faggot and wop and even the occasional beaner? I understand using racial slurs in a derrogetory way is cause for trouble. The way it should be. But, in literature or among friends? Why sanitize it?

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9): Today, watering down Huck Finn, tommorrow, the Three Stooges and the Twilight Zone being banned. Maybe I'm getting old, (54 years young) but, the world in general is in the midst of a malignant case of CSDD Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy. Common Sense Defecit Disorder And that my friends is how all this PC shit spreads like flies to a pile of turds and we get such so called talent as Justin Bieber, Ke$ha and even loudmouth Lady Ga Ga.

Preach on man!! haha, right on the money....

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20): Thats easy to figure out. The only group you can make fun of without being called a bigot is white men. If the Irish were any other color, but white, that stuff would have been gone a long time ago.

EXACTLY. The double standard and utter hypocrisy of just the use, connotation and utterance of the N word (see? we can't even use it, it's been sanitized to be "the N word") is so clear for anyone to see.

I teach my kids to treat peope with respect and never use such words, but then they end up being exposed to it from the very people they're taught to not use such words to/with/around. You can see the lesson that our sewer-immersed pop culture then teaches kids.

Quoting Slider (Reply 48): You can see the lesson that our sewer-immersed pop culture then teaches kids.

But see this is where things get interesting. Parents can certainly steer their teenagers in the right direction, as you have no doubt tried to do, but inevitably pop culture will get a hold on most kids. But this is a free market right? We can't regulate the crap Jersey Shore writers and hip-hop producers are peddling, right? What's in demand is what sells. And who is feeding that sewer-immersed demand?