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Aaron747
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San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:27 pm

Recently-elected San Francisco Board of Supervisor member Jane Kim has stirred some controversy in Northern California by being among many to recently make waves about the Pledge of Allegiance, refusing to recite the pledge as the City Supervisors open their sessions. Conservatives in the Bay Area and elsewhere are taking issue with her stand, saying that her loyalties in question by not doing so, and she is setting a bad example for kids by further eroding a longstanding American tradition. She says it is plainly an issue of personal views.

The District 6 supervisor stands with her colleagues during the Pledge of Allegiance before Board of Supervisor meetings but she does not utter the words.

“I don’t believe we are a nation with liberty and justice for all — yet,” she told The San Francisco Examiner. “So a lot of my work is motivated by wanting to be a part of achieving that ideal.”


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...ledge-of-Allegiance-114658904.html



[Edited 2011-01-26 14:28:25]

[Edited 2011-01-26 14:28:38]
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windy95
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:36 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
“I don’t believe we are a nation with liberty and justice for all — yet,” she told The San Francisco Examiner. “So a lot of my work is motivated by wanting to be a part of achieving that ideal.”

Is she talking about social justice and wealth redistrubtion? Last I saw we all have the same open road to do what we want. And if anything our enlarged Federal Governement has made us a country of less Liberty and Justice.
 
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
Is she talking about social justice and wealth redistrubtion? Last I saw we all have the same open road to do what we want. And if anything our enlarged Federal Governement has made us a country of less Liberty and Justice.

  

You're white, correct? And male? And have a degree?

Anyway, there shouldn't be any controversy. She's demonstrating her rights under the First Amendment. I think that's a great example for kids. No one should be forced into performing rote, public acts of supposed 'patriotism'. And not saying the pledge does NOT make her less patriotic. Her public service and desire and efforts to help make this truly a nation of liberty and justice for all are the only evidence necessary to demonstrate her true patriotism.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:52 pm

This has always been a peeve of mine. If you're an American citizen, you should be able to say the Pledge. Sure, it might not be completely accurate in describing our country now, but even if you don't agree with everything in it, it represents our goal, what we want our country to be, and how we make it. It is a promise, on our part, to always be loyal to our country and to strive for these ideals. To not pledge your allegiance to the flag of the country of which you consider yourself to be a citizen, I think, is a betrayal. I'm not very familiar with the whole situation, but just based on this, I wouldn't mind seeing her resigning from her position, or perhaps taking a leave of absence, until she can give the American flag the respect it deserves.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion. Nonetheless, I stand by it.

-J.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:04 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
Is she talking about social justice and wealth redistrubtion?

She's pretty young but did a stint as a civil rights attorney, so I'd imagine social justice is one of her eminent concerns.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
Last I saw we all have the same open road to do what we want.

Supposedly that's the case but I'd argue otherwise since it depends heavily on where your parents live during your schooling years and their involvement in your education.

Her parents came from South Korea six years before she was born. She went on to get a J.D. from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall, probably one of the 10 most difficult law schools to get into. Since her parents came from Korea, you could surmise they had some education and middle class savings to assist with their transition to the US. You'd be hard pressed to find a similar story for someone whose parents were, say, Hmong refugees from the same time period.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
No one should be forced into performing rote, public acts of supposed 'patriotism'.

  

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
And not saying the pledge does NOT make her less patriotic.

I'm inclined to agree.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:17 pm

Quoting KingFriday013 (Reply 3):
This has always been a peeve of mine. If you're an American citizen, you should be able to say the Pledge. Sure, it might not be completely accurate in describing our country now, but even if you don't agree with everything in it, it represents our goal, what we want our country to be, and how we make it. It is a promise, on our part, to always be loyal to our country and to strive for these ideals.

What if I don't want to say the "Under God" bit that McCarthy added during a very dark time in our history and that remains in the pledge as a vestige of that dark time?
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:37 pm

Quoting KingFriday013 (Reply 3):
It is a promise, on our part, to always be loyal to our country and to strive for these ideals.

Except that it's artificial. It doesn't date to the early history of the country, having been adopted in the late 1890s, it was originally targeted as an oral exercise for school children, and in any case forcing people to recite it more than likely degrades the meaning. What's the point of having people say something in its entirety they may or may not actually believe? No different than forced apology really.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:05 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Conservatives in the Bay Area and elsewhere are taking issue with her stand, saying that her loyalties in question by not doing so

Yeah, because the US requires loyalty oaths   . Idiots.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
social justice

Is there something wrong with that?
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:10 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Conservatives in the Bay Area and elsewhere are taking issue with her stand, saying that her loyalties in question by not doing so,

That's completely ridiculous.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
and she is setting a bad example for kids by further eroding a longstanding American tradition.

That's one's debatable. But it is still her choice not to say it. If she gets voted out of office because of it, then the voters will have delivered their opinion. If she doesn't, then the voters will have delivered their opinion as well.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
No one should be forced into performing rote, public acts of supposed 'patriotism'. And not saying the pledge does NOT make her less patriotic.

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
What if I don't want to say the "Under God" bit that McCarthy added during a very dark time in our history and that remains in the pledge as a vestige of that dark time?

I omit those two words.

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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:07 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):

I omit those two words.

As do I. I just don't say them.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:19 am

I find it ironic that some think we should not have the very "liberty" enshrined in the pledge- to not be forced into reciting it. As a side note, once I realized how things work in this country, I began amending it to "with liberty and justice for some." As far as I know, no one else ever noticed.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:26 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Conservatives in the Bay Area

Say WHAT?   
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:50 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Say WHAT?

Feigned shock I hope - Republican candidates don't do well in the region generally, but 25-30% is still a significant number of people. They do exist.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:57 am

Jane Kim?
I am shocked. I would expect this silliness from Chris Daly, David Campos or Ross Mirkarimi.
Yes I know Chris Daly is now gone but Jane Kim?
I met her when she ran for Board of Education. She is really cute in person.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Say WHAT?

There are 3 or 4 left but they are very, very old.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:21 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Conservatives in the Bay Area and elsewhere are taking issue with her stand, saying that her loyalties in question by not doing so, and she is setting a bad example for kids by further eroding a longstanding American tradition.

Ridiculous position for them to be taking. She has every right to not recite the pledge, and she should not be forced into reciting it. And frankly, I really don't think that school children should be asked to recite it ever day either. As others have already stated, you are not a better American for reciting the pledge.

The loyalty bit is also ridiculous. No one has to prove their loyalty to this country. Besides, would someone run for political office in this country if they weren't a loyal American? I highly doubt it.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
Anyway, there shouldn't be any controversy. She's demonstrating her rights under the First Amendment. I think that's a great example for kids. No one should be forced into performing rote, public acts of supposed 'patriotism'. And not saying the pledge does NOT make her less patriotic. Her public service and desire and efforts to help make this truly a nation of liberty and justice for all are the only evidence necessary to demonstrate her true patriotism.

  

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Supposedly that's the case but I'd argue otherwise since it depends heavily on where your parents live during your schooling years and their involvement in your education.

Her parents came from South Korea six years before she was born. She went on to get a J.D. from UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall, probably one of the 10 most difficult law schools to get into. Since her parents came from Korea, you could surmise they had some education and middle class savings to assist with their transition to the US. You'd be hard pressed to find a similar story for someone whose parents were, say, Hmong refugees from the same time period.

   Well said. Not everyone in this country has the same opportunities. It would wonderful if that were the case, but it is simply not.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
and in any case forcing people to recite it more than likely degrades the meaning. What's the point of having people say something in its entirety they may or may not actually believe? No different than forced apology really.

  

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Is there something wrong with that?

Socialism.   
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:09 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
“I don’t believe we are a nation with liberty and justice for all — yet,” she told The San Francisco Examiner. “So a lot of my work is motivated by wanting to be a part of achieving that ideal.”

Ugh. I understand not wanting to say the pledge from a libertarian standpoint, but because there isn't enough wealth redistribution and social justice (sic) in this country? Disgusting.
 
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:18 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):

Do people seriously care about this?

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Say WHAT?

The People's Republic of California hasn't built any gulags yet.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
The People's Republic of California hasn't built any gulags yet.


Oh yes they have.
California has the most prisons per capita than any state in the country. California has more prisons than state universities. Most inmates are non-violent offenders.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:28 am

As much as this makes my teeth hurt, I have to agree, she has the right. We have the right, and that is what is important.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:14 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
And not saying the pledge does NOT make her less patriotic.

If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

There are people that would give anything to become an American, and never get the chance, and it disgusts me that Americans act like this.

And as far as the ones that do want to say "under God", leave it out, or use something else, or just salute or stand there with you hand over your heart.

[Edited 2011-01-26 20:22:57]
 
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:37 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

Well, that is a very un-American response as you want to deny her her American freedoms (right to dissent and right to freedom of speech) so on that basis maybe you are the one who should get the hell out.

The whole pledge is just silly pseudo patriotic symbolism anyway.
 
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:44 am

District 6 of San Francisco by design will always have some real cuckoo representatives.
The previous rep was Chris Daly that promised to use the work "f--k" at every board meeting. He brought so much unnecessary negative attention to San Francisco.
District 6 has all of the homeless shelters and all of the worthless homeless advocacy non-profit organizations. Many environmentalist advocacy groups, bicycle messenger speed freaks, and a lot of warehouses that have been converted to artist studios as well as expensive luxury condos that no one can afford. The San Francisco Giants ballpark is in this district and the source of the worse traffic nightmares that screw up MUNI service.
I don't like district 6!   

Historically it was the industrial district of San Francisco which used to have factories, Hills Brothers Coffee, Bethlehem Steel, Falstaff Brewery, Wonder Bread factory, Rice-A-Roni factory, Hamm's brewery and many other factories. In other words, a place that provided jobs and had normal working class people.
Since those jobs have left, nothing but freaks and weirdoes have taken over that part of town.

This seems so out of character for Jane Kim. She is such a nice & sweet person and didn’t come off as a bitter, pissed off activist.
I’d still hit it though!   
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:16 am

Quoting wolbo (Reply 20):
Well, that is a very un-American response as you want to deny her her American freedoms (right to dissent and right to freedom of speech) so on that basis maybe you are the one who should get the hell out.

The whole pledge is just silly pseudo patriotic symbolism anyway.

Thank you for your outside opinion, on what is un-American. Again I shall say, it sickens me that those that cry about freedoms, but wish to use those freedoms to piss on the country that provides them.
 
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:16 am

She absolutely has the right to opt out of reciting the pledge, and those who would chastise her for that choice have the right to do so as well. Her refusal to recite may not matter to her constituents.

Her stated reason though - that's asinine. I cannot comprehend that someone with the mental agility to complete law school at a good school like Boalt Hall, can actually believe that reciting the pledge of allegiance constitutes a statement that all of its ideals have been fully achieved.

She's just thirsting for attention, a drama queen.

And Larry - if I wasn't married (and was a lot younger), I would too. As if she'd even let me...  
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:16 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

There are people that would give anything to become an American, and never get the chance, and it disgusts me that Americans act like this.

And that's one of the great, if not the greatest, things about our country: You can be disgusted and have your very strong, but narrow, opinion of what constitutes patriotism and how one should properly show respect and love for one's homeland, and I can have a different opinion. And we're free to have different opinions and both are equally valid, and neither one of us has to go anywhere else. And I hope all those that want to become American can. And if they do become American, I hope if they choose to demonstrate their American pride in public, they do so in ways that are meaningful to them.

Thank you for your service to our country Mudboy. I'd much rather salute and thank a soldier in person than play idol-worship with a piece of cloth. I'm sorry you can't understand that.
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Aaron747
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:28 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Do people seriously care about this?

This was a hugely inflamed topic around Norcal talk radio, which I still tune into every morning from afar.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
The People's Republic of California hasn't built any gulags yet.

Definitely want to look into Larry's suggestion re the CA prison industry. Not to mention that only LA, Humboldt County and the Bay Area are unabashedly liberal - the rest of the state is anything but.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

Except that she is likely giving up an exceptional legal salary to perform public service at a time when the city needs more diverse viewpoints. Can't fault her for that.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
There are people that would give anything to become an American, and never get the chance, and it disgusts me that Americans act like this.

It saddens me when members of the military do not recognize the very values they ostensibly are fighting for.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
This seems so out of character for Jane Kim. She is such a nice & sweet person and didn’t come off as a bitter, pissed off activist.
I’d still hit it though!

LOL - the thought has crossed my mind as well. Saw a Youtube video of one of her rallies - there's something to her, I must admit...she's got a giggly tigress in there somewhere.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 24):
Thank you for your service to our country Mudboy. I'd much rather salute and thank a soldier in person than play idol-worship with a piece of cloth. I'm sorry you can't understand that.

  
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:53 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):

If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

Freedom? We do have some freedoms, yes. Including the right to burn that very flag in protest. Including the right to refuse to recite the pledge. Including the right to hold "God Hates Fags" signs outside of the funeral of a fallen soldier. Including the right to demand equal rights for all citizens. Including the right to speak our minds without fear of government persecution.

Unfortunately, we've lost a lot of freedoms, too. More and more, we must submit to searches of our persons and belongings. More and more, we are monitored. "Wars" on drugs and terror have taken their toll on our rights, most truly.

I do recite the Pledge and I do respect the Flag. But when I hear Americans talking like you do, I do wonder if we're not already lost.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:59 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Unfortunately, we've lost a lot of freedoms, too. More and more, we must submit to searches of our persons and belongings. More and more, we are monitored. "Wars" on drugs and terror have taken their toll on our rights, most truly.

Pretty soon, we'll lose the freedom to buy incandescent light bulbs.  
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
This seems so out of character for Jane Kim. She is such a nice & sweet person and didn’t come off as a bitter, pissed off activist.
I’d still hit it though!

The video I was referring to...I've definitely seen worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJFiBt6GklU
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:34 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 28):
The video I was referring to...I've definitely seen worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJFiB...6GklU

At work right now, I'll watch this video later at home when I have some 'privacy'.  
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:44 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 24):
You can be disgusted and have your very strong, but narrow, opinion of what constitutes patriotism and how one should properly show respect and love for one's homeland, and I can have a different opinion.
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
It saddens me when members of the military do not recognize the very values they ostensibly are fighting for.

I understand those rights, but it does not mean i have to like them. I actually am very open-minded, I have just been down a different path. The same flag that people use to piss on, is draped over bodies of fallen Soldiers, so yes I have a stronger opinion, when it comes to respect of the flag, it is much more than a piece of cloth to me. I apologize for allowing emotion to get the best of my response. As screwed up as we are, there is no other Nation I would rather serve, and I believe in the US Constitution and the American values.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:46 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
Definitely want to look into Larry's suggestion re the CA prison industry. Not to mention that only LA, Humboldt County and the Bay Area are unabashedly liberal - the rest of the state is anything but.

That's the funny thing about people who call it the People's Republic of California and think that the entire State is overrun by loony liberal hippies. Most people I come across who criticize California at every turn, don't know this very basic fact about the State.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
It saddens me when members of the military do not recognize the very values they ostensibly are fighting for.

  

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
Definitely want to look into Larry's suggestion re the CA prison industry. Not to mention that only LA, Humboldt County and the Bay Area are unabashedly liberal - the rest of the state is anything but.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Pretty soon, we'll lose the freedom to buy incandescent light bulbs.

That's not freedom. Freedom is the ability to say what we please without the Government locking us up. Freedoms is the right to a fair trial, it's the right to self-expression. Losing inscandescent light bulbs is an inconvenience for some, but not a loss of freedom.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:18 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 31):
That's not freedom. Freedom is the ability to say what we please without the Government locking us up. Freedoms is the right to a fair trial, it's the right to self-expression. Losing inscandescent light bulbs is an inconvenience for some, but not a loss of freedom.



B.S.!
When government tells you what products you can & can't buy that were once legal, it's loss of freedom. You may not see it that way but it is. What's ludicrous is the law is based on junk science.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 23):
She absolutely has the right to opt out of reciting the pledge, and those who would chastise her for that choice have the right to do so as well. Her refusal to recite may not matter to her constituents.

Her stated reason though - that's asinine. I cannot comprehend that someone with the mental agility to complete law school at a good school like Boalt Hall, can actually believe that reciting the pledge of allegiance constitutes a statement that all of its ideals have been fully achieved.

She's just thirsting for attention, a drama queen.


  
Amen on all of your points!

Quoting sccutler (Reply 23):
And Larry - if I wasn't married (and was a lot younger), I would too. As if she'd even let me...


If Jane Jim was with a level-headed, strong and verile man such as yourself, she wouldn't be acting a fool like this. She has to be lonesome and miserable to make such statements. There are no more men like that left in San Francisco. They'll all so attached to their silly 'cause' and their lame attempts to 'change the world'.   
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:50 am

I don't say the pledge either, albeit not for the same reason as Ms. Kim. My loyalties are to the human race and the Enlightenment ideals of freedom and democracy. To the extent that the US acts to defend those (which, admittedly, it usually does), I'll give her my allegiance. To the extent that the US acts against humanity and the Enlightenment ideal, I won't. I'm not about to pledge blanket allegiance to a political entity just because I happened to be born within its borders.
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 2):
You're white, correct? And male? And have a degree?

What does that have to do with anything? And no I do not have a degree. Learned my trade as an Aircraft Mechanic in the Air Force. My family could not afford to send me to college. But nice try.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Supposedly that's the case but I'd argue otherwise since it depends heavily on where your parents live during your schooling years and their involvement in your education.

This I agree with for the most part but there are still many successful people in the history of this country that ovecame this. No matter what race of gender.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
social justice

Is there something wrong with that?

Very much so.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23727
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 31):
That's the funny thing about people who call it the People's Republic of California and think that the entire State is overrun by loony liberal hippies. Most people I come across who criticize California at every turn, don't know this very basic fact about the State.

My brother's father-in-law prides himself on being both a "Dittohead" and all-knowing about members of Congress. This past election, he had our mutual friends convinced I could vote out Nancy Pelosi. He was very dissapointed when I explained to him that she does not represent my district.

So a person is protesting the policies of the government. What part of that is so wrong? Oh, that's right... She is percieved to be a "liberal" from San Francisco. Therefore, it is wrong. *sigh* I feel bad for this country...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GQfluffy
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:17 pm

Everyone knows the pledge. In school everyone says it. It's tradition. It's patriotic, and while I agree that not reciting it doesn't make you any less patriotic...this lady is a dumb bitch. Most likely she refuses just to get publicity. If not...she doesn't have any logical reason NOT to. There is no reason to irritate people 'just because'.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
cargolex
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:53 pm

Quote:
Very much so.

Sigh. You've been listening to too much Glenn Beck.

What is Social Justice? What does it mean to work for Social Justice? It means that Jews can't be denied housing or jobs or entry into college because they are Jewish. It means working for equality and equal treatment under the law and for fairness in what people have access to. It means egalitarianism and meritocracy. It means that Gay people are treated the same as straight people, that Christians are treated the same as Muslims or Jews. It means that Black is treated the same way White is treated.

Major proponents of social justice: Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa.

Guess we should vilify them, huh? Social Justice. Truly horrible stuff.

Quote:
If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

Wow, that's tremendously unamerican, to say that anybody who disagrees with your view of what it is to be an American should leave their country. Other Americans have the same rights to free speech and free expression that you do.

[Edited 2011-01-27 08:55:44]
 
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Moose135
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 19):
If you are an American and you cannot salute the flag of the nation that protects you, and gives you freedom, GET THE HELL OUT, and go find a nation that better suits your needs, because you do not deserve to be here!

I don't wear a flag on my lapel, I don't fly a flag outside my home, I don't have one of those ribbon magnets on my car, and I don't have a problem with this lady not wanting to recite the pledge. If you think that makes me unpatriotic, that's fine with me - I served in the military to ensure you have the right to your opinion.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
TWFirst
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 30):
As screwed up as we are, there is no other Nation I would rather serve, and I believe in the US Constitution and the American values.


Here here! Amen brother! (And for the record, I'd never burn the flag.)

Quoting OA412 (Reply 31):
Losing incandescent light bulbs is an inconvenience for some, but not a loss of freedom.


Actually, although I love incandescent lighting (well, until they can perfect CFLs), I'd argue that losing incandescent bulbs DOES contribute to our freedom.... our freedom from foreign oil. If/when that day happens, I think it will be transformational to our country in ways we don't realize. In the meantime, I'm just going to have to be more creative with my lighting strategy to mimic that same, warm, incandescent glow  
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:13 pm

What makes me sad is there is a big uproar over this. I'm proud to say the pledge of allegiance, but I'm also proud to live in a country where I (or she) doesn't have to. While I personally disagree with her, who is to say my opinion is better than hers?

[Edited 2011-01-27 09:14:00]
 
Mudboy
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:20 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 38):
I served in the military to ensure you have the right to your opinion.

Um, Do I really need to respond to this one?? Thank you for your service!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):

Pretty soon, we'll lose the freedom to buy incandescent light bulbs.

You will be free to buy them. Nobody will throw you in jail for them.

You get thrown in jail for smoking a joint.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Superfly
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:13 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
You get thrown in jail for smoking a joint.

Which is also wrong. Marijuana used to be legal years ago.
If Jane Kim refused to say the pledge due to our marijuana laws, then I'd support her.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Aaron747
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 43):
If Jane Kim refused to say the pledge due to our marijuana laws, then I'd support her.


Ahem..."support"? LOL

Quoting moose135 (Reply 38):
I don't wear a flag on my lapel, I don't fly a flag outside my home, I don't have one of those ribbon magnets on my car, and I don't have a problem with this lady not wanting to recite the pledge. If you think that makes me unpatriotic, that's fine with me - I served in the military to ensure you have the right to your opinion.


You sound just like my Navy vet Grandfather...good on you sir.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 34):
Very much so.

Are you nuts? You really want to go back miscegenation, women behind a desk only, and all that crap??

[Edited 2011-01-27 10:35:33]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
474218
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
“I don’t believe we are a nation with liberty and justice for all — yet,” she told The San Francisco Examiner.


Lets see: An obviously minority woman (which give her double minority status?) is elected to public office. Then complains that there is not "justice for all"? What more evidence does she need that, she is an example that there is already "equal justice" in the United States of America.
 
TWFirst
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 45):
Lets see: An obviously minority woman (which give her double minority status?) is elected to public office. Then complains that there is not "justice for all"? What more evidence does she need that, she is an example that there is already "equal justice" in the United States of America.

?? Really? You really think that equal justice in this country has been acheived because an Asian woman was elected to public office in a city where Asians are the largest minority? Shall we start a discussion about what 'equal justice' means in the South?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 44):
Are you nuts? You really want to go back miscegenation, women behind a desk only, and all that crap??

You're giving him too much credit... he's not going to know what that word means. The government provided him his profession, yet he spews the whole mega-right-wing 'government is evil' mantra.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 45):
What more evidence does she need that, she is an example that there is already "equal justice" in the United States of America.

See example in Reply 4. Such evidence is abound in places like the SF Bay Area.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:19 pm

Quoting windy95 (Reply 1):
Last I saw we all have the same open road to do what we want.

Hardly. Federal EEO laws generally cover only age, color, religion, sex, age, or national origin. If you're homosexual, forget the U.S. being "the same open road." Unless you're covered by one of the very few state or municipal laws addressing this issue, you may still, in 2011, be fired from a job, or have other liberties withheld that non-homosexuals enjoy, simply because of your sexual orientation.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Jane Kim?
I am shocked. I would expect this silliness from Chris Daly, David Campos or Ross Mirkarimi.

As a San Francisco native, having grown up there during the 60s/70s, the image some people currently have of The City being the last bastion of nutjobs is nothing short of amusing.

The City is more corporate and conforming than ever before. It's almost a place I don't recognize at times. The likes of Sup. Kim, an ambitious, hard-working American, is nowhere near—not even within a light year—of say, a beatnik.

For the record, personally, I don't mind if she passes on reciting the Pledge. The nice thing about being an American is that there's no "typical" American. The only thing most of us have in common is that we all seem to be throwing rocks at each other.
International Homo of Mystery
 
474218
Posts: 4510
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RE: San Francisco Supe Refuses To Recite The Pledge

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:28 pm

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 46):
Shall we start a discussion about what 'equal justice' means in the South?


In the "South" what. I live in Georgia, which some people describe as a "Southern" State. We have minorities as Congressman, State Senators, State Assembly persons, Mayors, city council people, school board members, and I could go on and on.

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