futurepilot16
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Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:08 am

Anybody else annoyed yet. I've been back on campus for my spring semester for 2 weeks and i've been to a grand total of about 8 classes because of all the cancellations of class due to the snow. Not only that, but i've slipped and fallen a few times and i'm not really happy about it. I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks. The good thing is i'm not home so I don't have to shovel any of this crap.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:09 am

What snow? Its been in the 70s in San Diego for the past week.  
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:11 am

I think we need more global warming...
Democrats haven't been this angry since we took away their slaves.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:15 am

I rather have the snow than be baking in heat and humidity of summer.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Mudboy
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:47 am

I wish it would snow in Iraq. It actually did back in 07. I look at snow the way I look at LA and NYC, I love it, but wouldn't want to live in it.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:08 am

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
What snow? Its been in the 70s in San Diego for the past week.

'60's here in San Francisco.

Why? Is it snowing somewhere?   
-Doc Lightning-

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Mir
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:14 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet.

Not in the least. I'm loving this.

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 3):
I rather have the snow than be baking in heat and humidity of summer.

Amen to that!   

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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OA412
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:57 am

We've had quite a bit of snow this year, but nothing as bad as what you're describing. Right now we're getting into the 30's and 40's during the day, and mostly into the 20's at night so it's really not all that bad.
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Aaron747
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:38 am

I could post pics of the 30 mile visibility we had today with the high of 82, but I won't  
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ltbewr
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:39 pm

New records for monthly snow have been broken throughout the NY City area, and January isn't over yet. What was expected to be 10 inches in northern New Jersey had ended up being 15-16 or more. Many have lost part or full days of work, schools have used up their 'snow days' allocations, many towns and some states have had to dip into reserve funds to pay for clean up of the snow, using up their annual budgets for it already. I wish I could afford the time and income loss to run away to south Florida for a few weeks.   
 
planeguy727
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:53 pm

I'm loving the snow. More snow = happy me!

Since I'm not a fan of the heat I choose to live and work in the northeast US.
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
windy95
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:47 pm

This damn global warming is causing more snow and cold.....65 here in Central Florida today.
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:58 pm

This is why when I retired from the Navy I stayed in San Diego instead of moving back to Pennsylvania.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:59 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks.

I haven't either - and I live in Dallas.

And I'm happy. There have been a few January's in the past decade which have had me outside with the lawn mower. You're quite welcome to come mow my grass anytime.
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet. I've been back on campus for my spring semester for 2 weeks and i've been to a grand total of about 8 classes because of all the cancellations of class due to the snow. Not only that, but i've slipped and fallen a few times and i'm not really happy about it. I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks. The good thing is i'm not home so I don't have to shovel any of this crap.

Awwweeee Muffin....

Signed - Canada

Cal   
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n229nw
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
I could post pics of the 30 mile visibility we had today with the high of 82, but I won't

Go ahead and post it, please. I was annoyed they closed my kids' schools again, but having someone post a picture of disgusting, sunny hot weather would remind me why I am so happy I'm not somewhere with no winter. So do post!

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 3):
I rather have the snow than be baking in heat and humidity of summer.

Amen to that!

Seconded, thirded, whatever!!!

I can't believe there are actually people who would rather be in 80 degree heat with constant oppressive sun beating down than a beautiful refreshing winter day...

To each his or her own...
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Cadet985
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting dragon-wings (Reply 3):
I rather have the snow than be baking in heat and humidity of summer.

I'll take the snow, ice, and cold over the heat and humidity any day. The way I see it, no matter how cold it gets, I can always add a layer. In the summer, there's only so much I can take off before someone calls the police.

Marc
 
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PITingres
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet.

I am angry and annoyed, but almost certainly not for the reasons you cite. In fact my situation is unusual for me.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I've been back on campus for my spring semester for 2 weeks and i've been to a grand total of about 8 classes...

You might consider complaining to your school administration. The secret phrase this year is "Candy-Ass".

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
i've slipped and fallen a few times and i'm not really happy about it ... I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks.

I'm sorry to hear that you have motor skill difficulties. As for the second part, I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what the problem is ... ???

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
The good thing is ... I don't have to shovel any of this crap.

I think you misspelled "unfortunate", but I've never seen it misspelled as "good". Most remarkable. In any case, I can recommend regular exercise along with a proper diet.  
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
What snow? Its been in the 70s in San Diego for the past week.

Thank you for that  
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
I'll take the snow, ice, and cold over the heat and humidity any day. The way I see it, no matter how cold it gets, I can always add a layer. In the summer, there's only so much I can take off before someone calls the police.

I agree with you 100%, and I love the snow, but this year there has just been a little too much of it.

Quoting PITingres (Reply 17):
You might consider complaining to your school administration. The secret phrase this year is "Candy-Ass".

Well, I can't blame them because if they don't cancel classes and I have to walk in this crap, i'm gonna be pissed

Quoting PITingres (Reply 17):
I'm sorry to hear that you have motor skill difficulties. As for the second part, I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what the problem is ... ???

Well, it's not only me. My campus just happens to be nothing but hills everywhere, so there's a lot of slippin and falling.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
ALTF4
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:11 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
I'll take the snow, ice, and cold over the heat and humidity any day. The way I see it, no matter how cold it gets, I can always add a layer. In the summer, there's only so much I can take off before someone calls the police.

Hahaha - I've always said the exact same things. That's pretty funny.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
Well, I can't blame them because if they don't cancel classes and I have to walk in this crap, i'm gonna be pissed

God forbid you get snow on your boots!

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
Well, it's not only me. My campus just happens to be nothing but hills everywhere, so there's a lot of slippin and falling.

Any of the rich bastards have snow mobiles?  
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
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KPDX
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:20 pm

Please send some snow to Oregon.


Signed, me.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:06 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
I think we need more global warming...
Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
This damn global warming is causing more snow and cold

Interesting blog post on wunderground today:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/Jef...Masters/comment.html?entrynum=1735

"The old adage, "it's too cold to snow", has some truth to it, and there is research supporting the idea that the average climate in the U.S. is colder than optimal to support the heaviest snowstorms. For example, Changnon et al. (2006) found that for the contiguous U.S. between 1900 - 2001, 61% - 80% of all heavy snowstorms of 6+ inches occurred during winters with above normal temperatures. The authors also found that 61% - 85% of all heavy snowstorms of 6+ inches occurred during winters that were wetter than average. The authors conclude, "a future with wetter and warmer winters, which is one outcome expected (National Assessment Synthesis Team 2001), will bring more heavy snowstorms of 6+ inches than in 1901 - 2000." The authors found that over the U.S. as a whole, there had been a slight but significant increase in heavy snowstorms of 6+ inches than in 1901 - 2000.

If the climate continues to warm, we should expect an increase in heavy snow events for a few decades, until the climate grows so warm that we pass the point where winter temperatures are at the optimum for heavy snow events."
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Aaron747
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:14 pm

My office view, sorry folks. Hawaiian winter is such a drag.

If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
If the climate continues to warm, we should expect an increase in heavy snow events for a few decades, until the climate grows so warm that we pass the point where winter temperatures are at the optimum for heavy snow events."

Don't bother trying to explain.Some people just don't understand the main concept of global warming, which means that there is more moisture in the air, which is technically what makes the planet warmer as greenhouse gases are trapped in the atmosphere. More moisture means more precipitation. Examples include the floods in Australia and Brazil, and the record breaking snowfall that east coast has been experiencing this year. Let me make this clear, global warming doesn't mean that all of a sudden the earth will get so hot that snow will go away. As a matter of fact, temperature change is quite minuscule, but such a small change in temperature can reap havoc.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
rfields5421
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:36 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
My office view, sorry folks.

Somebody git a rope !!!!!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 24):
Somebody git a rope !!!!!

Yes yes, enter the lynch mob.   Hey at least you're not paying $1250/month for a 40 year-old apartment.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Mir
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:16 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
My office view, sorry folks. Hawaiian winter is such a drag.

Somehow not as pretty as this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/miyridian/IMG_6559.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/miyridian/IMG_6580.jpg

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
planeguy727
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:17 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
I'll take the snow, ice, and cold over the heat and humidity any day. The way I see it, no matter how cold it gets, I can always add a layer. In the summer, there's only so much I can take off before someone calls the police.

Marc

Like others have noted, this is my belief as well. Though there are a few places we can hang out on a warm day without concern for clothing...   
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
jetblue777
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:19 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
$1250/month for a 40 year-old

In New York, $1250 will get you a 100-year old apartment  

I'm also sick of all this snow (luckily for me, I'm off for a week from school) It was good at first, winter wonderland + snow ball fights with friends but then it gets annoying. I can't wait till next month - 4 Days in Cancun, I miss the warm heat of the sun   

I'm just a bit worried that DL will cancel our flights due to snow, but hopefully, not. They canceled DL 1297 today, which is our flight to ATL next month... *crosses fingers for no snow!*
It's a cultural thing.
 
ALTF4
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:21 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
Somehow not as pretty as this:

No fair. That makes me miss NY even more............
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:30 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 26):
Somehow not as pretty as this:

There's nowhere like Central Park though. Not to mention there aren't any public spaces in Honolulu designed by Olmstead  
Quoting jetblue777 (Reply 28):
In New York, $1250 will get you a 100-year old apartment

At least salaries are higher there to compensate.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mdsh00
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 25):
Yes yes, enter the lynch mob.   Hey at least you're not paying $1250/month for a 40 year-old apartment.

No, I'm paying almost $2000 for a 50 year old apartment!  
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:51 pm

I love it, in fact I am heading up to Canada in two weeks to get more. As was said, it is better than sweating.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
nkops
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet

Yes, and it is not even Feb. yet which is our typical heavy snow month.... I think here in south Jersey, we are well over double what our average is any given year... and if forecasters are right ( which sometimes happens) the pattern will continue for the next month or so
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Springbok747
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:33 pm

A few days ago outside my aunt's house in Atlanta..



Driving on I95 N in snow..not fun at all..



But I love cold weather..so can't complain too much   
אני תומך בישראל
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:37 pm

I hear ya man, It's getting old. It has been crazy lately. This week for school I've had a delay monday and tuesday, got out early on wednesday, and no school today, and a probable delay tomorrow. It's getting old! I don't care though, I'm sneaking down to Miami saturday to warm up .
Blue
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dragon-wings
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:37 pm

Where I live on Long Island we just got 13 inches of snow last night. That is the third storm since christmas where we got a foot or more of snow. That is very unusual here.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 16):
I'll take the snow, ice, and cold over the heat and humidity any day. The way I see it, no matter how cold it gets, I can always add a layer. In the summer, there's only so much I can take off before someone calls the police.

Marc

Very true. It can get real hot here in the summer, all you have to do is breathe and you will be sweatting. YUCK!
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:03 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
I could post pics of the 30 mile visibility we had today with the high of 82, but I won't

But then you did it anyway.

69 and sunny here in SF.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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STT757
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:18 am

In the NYC / Northern NJ area this Winter is still not as bad as the '93/'94 Winter, that Winter there was ice and snow on the ground from Christmas through April. While the total accumulations might not be as high as now, it seemed like what fell on the ground in '93/'94 never melted. There were huge piles of snow that after a while turned to solid ice, honestly it was well into April when the last of the snow disappeared. That was a very depressing Winter.

Anyone from the area remember that Winter?..
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alberchico
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:56 am

The snow amounts here in NYC were heavy but not something that shut down the whole city. I can't wait for the hot 90F days of summer walking around looking at all the girls wearing the least amount of clothing, you can't get that in the cold !!!

     
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:08 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet. I've been back on campus for my spring semester for 2 weeks and i've been to a grand total of about 8 classes because of all the cancellations of class due to the snow. Not only that, but i've slipped and fallen a few times and i'm not really happy about it. I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks. The good thing is i'm not home so I don't have to shovel any of this crap.

1) I'm not annoyed, I'm loving it... But I'm in Chicago. In fact I wish for more snow; it's so fun to walk in!

2) You mean you're somewhere where school is cancelled because of snow? Wow, I had no idea Connecticut cancels school because of a bit of snow and cold. It's not Atlanta! At UChicago, I do believe such weather does not produce a cancellation of classes. In fact I once walked to class even if it was 10 degrees and windy, so the wind chill was around -15. It did no hurt upon me.

3) I'm sorry you slipped and fell. I recommend boots that increase traction to prevent such unfortunate accidents! That said, I don't find the solid water here (in Chicago) that slippery. I walked on ice in sneakers and managed to avoid accidents.

4) Shoveling snow off a driveway is one of the most pleasant winter time activities. The sky is so clear after a storm (well, sometimes) that it's amazing to look at. Contrails help too. But I don't have to do it anymore.

5) What I hate is people salting the streets and sidewalks! Please, stop, you're getting my pants dirty, geez  
Quoting alberchico (Reply 40):
The snow amounts here in NYC were heavy but not something that shut down the whole city. I can't wait for the hot 90F days of summer walking around looking at all the girls wearing the least amount of clothing, you can't get that in the cold !!!

I do believe the Internet can help you with that

[Edited 2011-01-27 19:09:41]
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:51 am

Quoting alberchico (Reply 40):
walking around looking at all the girls wearing the least amount of clothing, you can't get that in the cold !!!

Thats the only good thing about summer!  
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
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n229nw
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:57 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
69 and sunny here in SF.

I'm sorry to hear that. At least it isn't as bad as in Hawaii where Aaron is. Still, that was one of the reasons I really wanted to get out of California. It's WINTER damn it. The worst thing is the unbearable heatwaves in October, which is just when it should be cooling off, and is the most beautiful month of autumn paradise in places with a proper climate.

I'm serious. I find it funny when people get all smug about their "great" weather that actually sucks, at least sucks the soul out of me. I don't mind a sunny day now and then, but every day or nearly every day and I just want to curl up and die.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:40 am

Quoting n229nw (Reply 43):
The worst thing is the unbearable heatwaves in October, which is just when it should be cooling off, and is the most beautiful month of autumn paradise in places with a proper climate.

If it gets over 80 in SF, we all panic. We don't get heat waves. Maybe one or two a year, but that's it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
skidmarks
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks

I've been in Norway since November 14th. It's been snow covered the whole time so quit whining and get shovelling!!      

Andy   
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
WestJetForLife
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:08 am

Quoting FighterPilot (Reply 14):
Awwweeee Muffin....

Signed - Canada

If my car breaks down, I just ride my trusted six-Husky sleigh from the 'igloo' to the 7-11 for smokes.

We (Calgary) are right now under a "snowfall warning" with 15-25cm (about 6-8 inches expected over two days), when ironically yesterday we broke a temperature record for January 27: 13°C/55°F. Suffice it to say, I was getting sick of the slush on the roads and am actually GLAD the snow is falling. That, and I'm glad my apartment has a covered garage. Girlfriend likes it, too.

The only downside, however, are those who are new to the concept of snow and can't drive in it.

Other than that, bring the snow on. It IS only the end of January.

Nik
I need a drink.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:54 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
n the NYC / Northern NJ area this Winter is still not as bad as the '93/'94 Winter, that Winter there was ice and snow on the ground from Christmas through April. While the total accumulations might not be as high as now, it seemed like what fell on the ground in '93/'94 never melted. There were huge piles of snow that after a while turned to solid ice, honestly it was well into April when the last of the snow disappeared. That was a very depressing Winter.

Ahh you do know it is still only Jan right?.....You got a good part of winter left to go. If it keeps up you just might break the 93/94 winter record
 
bookishaviator
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:23 am

I'd take the snow any day over this obscene weather, as forecast for the next four days:



39 on a work day? Oh, the injustice! I wish summer would just disappear.

  
When I die, when I die, I'll rot. But when I live, when I live, I'll give it all I've got.
 
Mike89406
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:40 am

Hi 70's today in San Diego doesn't feel like winter. It's supposed to cool down to the mid 60's on Saturday, might have to wear long sleeves.   
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Getting Sick And Tired Of All This Snow

Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:13 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Anybody else annoyed yet. I've been back on campus for my spring semester for 2 weeks and i've been to a grand total of about 8 classes because of all the cancellations of class due to the snow. Not only that, but i've slipped and fallen a few times and i'm not really happy about it. I haven't seen green grass in 4 weeks. The good thing is i'm not home so I don't have to shovel any of this crap.

I was sick of it before it even started! However, I live in Maine, so it was expected. We only get three months per year of decent weather. The rest of the time it's chilly, or just too damn cold! It got down to -14F the other night! I hate this state to begin with, but the weather and cold temps make up 50% of the reason for it! I need warm, balmy weather. Like never colder then 70F! New England is not the place for that! By the time October comes around, it might as well be winter as far as I'm concerned. In New England it gets cold than and doesn't warm up until mid-May! Maybe a few weeks earlier down where you are in the southern part of the region?

Frankly, I don't mind snow as much as the cold. I just hate that. Snow can be dealt with. However, this winter Southern New England is the one getting the snow. We've only got about 16 inches so far. There's way more down in Boston, CT, and NYC. It's usually the other way around.

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