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GuitrThree
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Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:57 pm

Users beware... Apple has included software in it's 4.0+ updates that tracks your every move. Right now, the data stays on your phone and your computer, but in the future what can happen.. A simple download of external software can show where you've been.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...ne-users-beware-location-tracking/

As an iPhone owner this really bothers me.


Que Klaus in his defense of Apple and its tracking of you in ....3....2....1
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cpd
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:19 am

Quote:
As of now there is no known way to stop an iPhone with OS 4 from logging locations.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...e-location-tracking/#ixzz1K71cEHsC

Really? How about switching it off!  

Otherwise, you could simply take the safe option and use carrier pigeons to send your messages about instead of any kind of mobile telephone (all of them can be tracked in one way or another).  Wink

[Edited 2011-04-20 17:26:29]
 
vaporlock
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:15 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Thread starter):
Users beware... Apple has included software in it's 4.0+ updates that tracks your every move. Right now, the data stays on your phone and your computer, but in the future what can happen.. A simple download of external software can show where you've been.

I have an Apple iphone 4 and I hear what your saying. To be honest I have nothing to hide and never do any personal business on it or my computer.

So for me let them track away.

vaps
 
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Kiwirob
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:09 am

My crappy HTC Desire also tracks me, or it did until I turned the feature off.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:25 am

Quoting vaporlock (Reply 2):
To be honest I have nothing to hide

That is a valid point of view only whilst those doing the tracking have honourable intent!

....or agree with you about what you have to hide.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
signol
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:31 am

I know you can turn it off on Android. Google Lattitude is a useful feature, for when two people are trying to locate each other in a big city, say. But the question remains, can you turn it off on iphone?

signol
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swissy
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:47 pm

Quoting vaporlock (Reply 2):
I have an Apple iphone 4 and I hear what your saying. To be honest I have nothing to hide and never do any personal business on it or my computer.

I do have the BB Torch... have to agree with you, have nothing to hide  so no big deal for me, they can track me as much/long as they want to..

Cheerios,
 
MD-90
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:09 pm

Oh, and from the article

Quote:
But the iPhone feature could be good news for police. According to the ACLU, Michigan police are currently using a device called the Cellebrite UFED during traffic pull-overs. It can grab all the data out of a phone within minutes.

The company that sells the Cellebrite UFED advertises it to law enforcement: "Get the evidence you need -- immediately."

The company's website goes on to note: "Easy to use in both the field and in lab environments, UFED extracts vital data such as phonebook, pictures, videos, text messages, call logs … it then gathers the data into reports for research and evidence."

That is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. You shouldn't have to turn off your phone and hide it away in a lead case any time you're around police.
 
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OA260
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:29 am

Quoting vaporlock (Reply 2):

Me too it doesn't bother me , anyone can turn off location services. In certain cases this could be useful for example missing people etc...
 
mham001
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:45 am

Apple and Google are both doing it and it is collected - regularly - Google gets it several times an hour and Apple every 12 hours. The information is meant to be used to sell you things.http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110422/tc_nm/us_apple_google_privacy

Now where are those people again who think Microsoft is the the only great Satan in the world for bundling a browser with it's product, but Google or Apple? It's cool...
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:06 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 9):
Apple and Google are both doing it and it is collected - regularly - Google gets it several times an hour and Apple every 12 hours. The information is meant to be used to sell you things.http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110422/tc_nm/us_apple_google_privacy

In case of Apple it's not quite as simple.

They are sending back anonymous location data of the Wi-Fi networks you've encountered to build and maintain a database for Wi-Fi-only positioning. This is how an iPod Touch can pinpoint its rather precise location while on Wi-Fi even though it has neither GPS nor cell network access. It works by checking the Wi-Fi networks actually received against the internet-accessible database of these networks' locations.

Apple had initially used the services of an external company for that, but they have since switched to their own database which is maintained through this collected data.

Location-based advertising is handled separately under iOS: When you are running an ad-funded app, that app may request localized advertisment by supplying the current location at that time.

You can opt out of that, however, by visiting http://oo.apple.com/ with Safari on that device. It will then stop supplying the location for ads and you'll get generic ads instead.

How to opt out of interest-based ads from the iAd network

Most apps are ad-free, however (either paid or proper freeware), so it's the user's decision whether or not this even happens.

The list referenced here is separate from these two issues, is internal to the device and does not appear to be transmitted to anyone. Apple should still explicitly explain the intention and – if applicable – technical purpose behind it.
 
D L X
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:31 pm

Um, if Apple didn't track my iPhone and iPad, how the hell could the "Find my iPhone" app possibly work?

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 7):
That is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment.

No it isn't. To put it simply, you don't have a whole lot of 4th Amendment rights when you get pulled over by a cop while driving. Now, that's a gross oversimplication as there are rules for when they can pull you over and whether they can search you, but it's not nearly the same as if the police entered your home, took your phone, and looked for where you've been.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:17 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Um, if Apple didn't track my iPhone and iPad, how the hell could the "Find my iPhone" app possibly work?

The MobileMe "Find my iPhone" service only polls your iPhone for its location in the very moment you need to track it. All the tracking information that are collected during your daily usage are *not* shared with Apple servers. They are stored locally in a database on your iPhone, then synced to your Mac when you connect the phone with iTunes.

Apparently, the fact that this historical data isn't deleted after a while is a bug which will be fixed with the next software update: Source. Whatever it is, it doesn't bother me, as it is not automatically shared with anyone else. To obtain access to my data, you'd need to gain physical access to my iPhone or Mac, which won't happen unless someone bangs me on my head and runs with one of said devices.

Oh by the way, if anyone cares where I was, this is the data I found in my iPhone: http://twitpic.com/4n935c
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:57 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Thread starter):
As an iPhone owner this really bothers me.


Hate to break it to you but pretty much EVERY smart phone out there transmits your location one way or another to someone or something.  
 
mham001
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:59 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
Whatever it is, it doesn't bother me, as it is not automatically shared with anyone else.

Yes, it is shared. Regularly. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110422/tc_nm/us_apple_google_privacy

Read carefully. Even Klaus admits it.
 
D L X
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:26 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 12):
The MobileMe "Find my iPhone" service only polls your iPhone for its location in the very moment you need to track it.

Are you sure about that? It seems to me that it would be less effective if the person that stole your iPhone could just turn the phone off to prevent you from finding him.


In any event, I just checked out Pete Warden's site, and here is what I think:


this is really cool.


Though I have to wonder how many people tonight will get back to their home computers and see if their spouse has been to some lover's house lately...

"I knew it! You did go to that b---h Stephanie's house last night!"
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:05 pm

I think we are being tracked too much....

Facebook tracks what websites you visit and sells that info to anyone who wants it...
Grocery store loyalty programs track what merchandise you buy
Google & Yahoo keeps a list of what searches you do and keeps it for historical reasons. This can be sold to anyone who wants it or supeonas it.

Now you are being tracked as to where your travels take you. I can see this info being sold too. On heavily traveled road routes more billboards may be put up, etc. I think it's an invasion of privacy.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:37 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13):
Hate to break it to you but pretty much EVERY smart phone out there transmits your location one way or another to someone or something.

And I have *no* problem with that. When I fire up the Flightaware app to show me "nearby" aircraft, I want to let it know where I am. When I use google to find nearby gas prices or food places, yep, no problem. I even "check-in" on facebook when I'm at a cool place.

My problem is with the logging of where I've been. Doing more research, Apple says this file is needed to share all app's that need to be able to use my location for them to work on the iphones ability to multitask. And even that's cool.. Still, no problem

My problem comes with the fact that this "log" file collects data for *one year*. Why does Flightaware, Yelp, Google, and every other app that uses GPS care where I've been 3 minutes, 3 hours, 3 days, 3 weeks, or even 3 months ago? There is the problem.

Sooner or later, and I'm not saying mine, but someones log file *will* be used in some sort of way, be it the Police using it for tracking data, ex-wife/husband using it for legal purposes, etc. Plus, the data being sent to advertisers. All I'm asking is that I have the option to set how long this log file collects data..

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Um, if Apple didn't track my iPhone and iPad, how the hell could the "Find my iPhone" app possibly work?

Again, DLX, tell me what good the tracking log helps me when I lost my phone today, and they look up where it's been 3 weeks ago. Really. Get a clue. We all know the "Find my iPhone" app uses current data. No problem there. We're not discussing that. We're discussing log files and where you've been in the past year.
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LAXintl
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:44 pm

I don't see what the huge issue is since if desired law enforcement can already get info on persons based either on GPS or phone tower activity from the phone company. Having a simplistic file simple makes the forensic work easier for something that already exist.

Basically if you don't want to be tracked, then don't use technology such as a cell phone and stay home under your bed.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:59 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Basically if you don't want to be tracked, then don't use technology such as a cell phone and stay home under your bed.

-or- if enough people throw a fit about this, these companies might actually stop doing this and start following our constitutional rights.. Maybe you hid your copy of the Constitution under your bed to understand this...
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D L X
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:08 pm

Okay, now that I've played around with the program that Pete Warden wrote to decode the file, I'm even less concerned about it.

All it does is tell what CELL TOWERS you've been attached to over the course of your phone, not where exactly you've been.

I mean, hell! It never even showed a blip on my home address! (Which could explain why my service is imperfect at home.)
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 19):
-or- if enough people throw a fit about this, these companies might actually stop doing this and start following our constitutional rights.. Maybe you hid your copy of the Constitution under your bed to understand this...

Nothing constitutional here. Legally big brother can already get info on where you might be.
The various forms how this info comes out is irrelevant and is simply a different data forensics format one vendor chooses to follow over another.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:18 am

I must admit to being pretty pissed off at all this. I knew of course that elements of tracking existed, but didnt realise that police could pull everything out of your phone in a matter of seconds without you even knowing.

What shocks me even more is how many people come out with this "if you have nothing to hide" crap.

Doesnt anyone get that it is no one else's right to track you and invade your privacy??

I do nothing illegal - and it still bothers me greatly that someone thinks they have a right to violate my privacy like that.

And sorry, protestations of "it can solve crimes" dont really convince me either.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 22):
Doesnt anyone get that it is no one else's right to track you and invade your privacy??

I suppose the whole premise depends on if you view that its your privacy or not.

Authorities today very much have the legal right to determine every number you called, read every text sent or received, or where have you been by simply asking the phone company. For decades they could essentially do that about your landline phone also.
Now with the evolution of technology they are simply are able to get the info easier on the front end rather than go through the back end of the business.

If you feel these are acts of violating your privacy, then you should seriously avoid the usage of such forms of communication, and while at the same time make sure you also avoid public CCTV cameras, not use your credit cards, stop posting on web boards, etc which all provide traces of your doings which can be queried by authorities as needed.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mham001
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:36 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):

Authorities today very much have the legal right to determine every number you called, read every text sent or received, or where have you been by simply asking the phone company. For decades they could essentially do that about your landline phone also.

Of course they could - with probable cause and a search warrant. Now Apple and Google, are collecting it to sell to the highest bidder. Got a notice today that Yahoo is set to do the same thing now with email and instant messages.
 
racko
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:30 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 20):

Okay, now that I've played around with the program that Pete Warden wrote to decode the file, I'm even less concerned about it.

All it does is tell what CELL TOWERS you've been attached to over the course of your phone, not where exactly you've been.

I mean, hell! It never even showed a blip on my home address! (Which could explain why my service is imperfect at home.)

"To make it less useful for snoops, the spatial and temporal accuracy of the data has been artificially reduced."
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:28 am

Quoting mham001 (Reply 14):
Yes, it is shared. Regularly. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110422/tc_nm/us_apple_google_privacy

Read carefully. Even Klaus admits it.

Nope. There is a big difference between the transmission of properly anonymized Wi-Fi-location data only used for maintaining a Wi-Fi positioning database without any way to associate that data to any person and collecting personally identifiable tracking logs.

The latter would be a major problem but does not seem to be done by Apple. The former is unproblematic if the anonymization is done correctly.

John Gruber has excellent (if inofficial) connections to Apple; It is plausible that his information may be correct: That the failure to cull older data from the log is an inadvertent mistake.

It's certainly a damaging one, PR-wise, particularly due to the difficulty to distinguish between crucially different mechanisms in the press.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Are you sure about that? It seems to me that it would be less effective if the person that stole your iPhone could just turn the phone off to prevent you from finding him.

But that's the way it works. I've just checked it right here: When the device is out of range or powered off, it cannot be located.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 24):
Of course they could - with probable cause and a search warrant. Now Apple and Google, are collecting it to sell to the highest bidder.

Nope. There is no indication at this point that the aforementioned log is ever transmitted to Apple.

If you're deliberately using an ad-funded app, you know that these ads will be pulled from online servers and if the app uses the specific iAd service (these are specifically marked) that the iAd server will also receive your location (other ad services are blocked from getting the location). As far as I'm aware the location is restricted to the Apple iAd server and will not be provided to the iAd buyer.

Even with iAds you can opt out from your location being transmitted as explained above.

I agree that this kind of mechanism deserves detailed scrutiny. But at this point Apple's only transgression appears to be that the device doesn't erase historical locations, not that they were shared with anybody.

Google's Android is using similar mechanisms and at this point also seems to be sharing locations with central servers only in an anonymized form.

ars technica: Android phones keep location cache, too, but it's harder to access

It's good that these practices are put into the spotlight from time to time to keep the manufacturers on their toes and hopefully to keep breaches of privacy under control; But on the other hand proper information is the best vaccination against paranoia getting entirely out of control.

A bit of paranoia can be healthy. But beyond a certain point it can turn anyone into a psychotic wreck.
 
racko
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:49 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
Google's Android is using similar mechanisms and at this point also seems to be sharing locations with central servers only in an anonymized form.

The key difference is stated in your article: "The main difference that I can see is that Android seems to have a cache versus iOS's log,"

I don't think anybody is surprised that smartphones know where they are. What concerns some iPhone users is that an iPhone or a Computer that is synced with the iPhone can be used to track the whereabouts of users from one year ago. If you sync your iPhone with a PC provided by your employer he has access to a log of all your movements. That's not very pleasant.

It might very well be a bug, but it wouldn't hurt Apple to behave responsibly and just come forward and state the facts and their further plans. "We screwed up, sorry, and we'll fix it with the next iOS update due to be released within the next week. In the meantime, if you are concerned about this, please make sure to encrypt all date synced from your iPhone". That's customer service too.

But alas, it's Apple. They communicate via "sources" to fanblogs. Jesus.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:22 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
Authorities today very much have the legal right to determine every number you called, read every text sent or received, or where have you been by simply asking the phone company. For decades they could essentially do that about your landline phone also.

More correctly, authorities have surreptitiously legislated themselves the ability... doesn't make it right or just!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:41 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 27):
The key difference is stated in your article: "The main difference that I can see is that Android seems to have a cache versus iOS's log,"

Same thing, just different in extent.

Quoting racko (Reply 27):
What concerns some iPhone users is that an iPhone or a Computer that is synced with the iPhone can be used to track the whereabouts of users from one year ago. If you sync your iPhone with a PC provided by your employer he has access to a log of all your movements. That's not very pleasant.

When you're syncing a phone with your private data to a company computer you cannot have an expectation of secure privacy.

Either you trust your employer or you don't sync your private phone to a company computer. It's as simple as that.

Besides: If you don't want the location log readable on the computer, you simply flip the encryption switch in iTunes and the backup on the computer will be undecipherable.

Non-issue.

Quoting racko (Reply 27):
It might very well be a bug, but it wouldn't hurt Apple to behave responsibly and just come forward and state the facts and their further plans. "We screwed up, sorry, and we'll fix it with the next iOS update due to be released within the next week. In the meantime, if you are concerned about this, please make sure to encrypt all date synced from your iPhone". That's customer service too.

In situations like this you first investigate the extent of the issue internally, then you decide on remedies and only then you make your reaction public. In many cases a broadly published statement isn't even warranted, but it might be in this case since it's already gained substantial traction in the media.

Apple is certainly more restrictive with public statements than most other manufacturers, but prematurely blundering along with a string of half-baked public statements isn't ideal either.

Quoting racko (Reply 27):
But alas, it's Apple. They communicate via "sources" to fanblogs. Jesus.

Low-grade publicity through inofficial leaks is not unusual during the preliminary investigation of an issue. Neither for Apple nor for many other corporations.

[Edited 2011-04-23 09:42:57]
 
mham001
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:37 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
Nope. There is a big difference between the transmission of properly anonymized Wi-Fi-location data only used for maintaining a Wi-Fi positioning database without any way to associate that data to any person and collecting personally identifiable tracking logs.

Klaus, if your phone is sending them information, it's not exactly anonymous is it?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):

Nope. There is no indication at this point that the aforementioned log is ever transmitted to Apple.

There is every indication that it is from what I'm reading. Where are you getting this?
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Klaus, if your phone is sending them information, it's not exactly anonymous is it?

Yes, it is, if it is treated properly.

Which means the data containing no identification of the individual device (which appears to be the case) and the IP address used during the transmission being discarded/ignored (which it is, according to Apple, but even if it wasn't there would be no way to connect it to a specific account or user without the help of the respective network provider).

Quoting mham001 (Reply 30):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):

Nope. There is no indication at this point that the aforementioned log is ever transmitted to Apple.

There is every indication that it is from what I'm reading. Where are you getting this?

You're reading sensationalized and distorted reports, apparently.

There is no known indication that the location log is transmitted to anyone.

The Wi-Fi location update is not the same and it is anonymized before being transmitted to Apple.

The iAd location request is a third and again separate mechanism which one can opt out of beyond choosing to not use iAd-supported apps in the first place.

It is obvious that hyperventilating peddling of horror stories is the easiest thing for low-grade reporters. But that kind of "reporting" is practically worthless in terms of information.

Actual information is more difficult to research and provide, and of course it's usually less conveniently fitting to pre-existing prejudices.
 
racko
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:22 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
It is obvious that hyperventilating peddling of horror stories is the easiest thing for low-grade reporters. But that kind of "reporting" is practically worthless in terms of information.

Actual information is more difficult to research and provide, and of course it's usually less conveniently fitting to pre-existing prejudices.

I know a great remedy against this: Communicating.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:25 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 32):
I know a great remedy against this: Communicating.

Indeed. But that only helps if one is willing to find out and understand the (sometimes intricate) distinctions between what is claimed in the press and what is really going on (or not).
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:37 pm

a cellphone is not an essential in life it is a luxury that millions do without. Those of you who don't like this can just not use one, like me. Or use a work phone only to/from/at work.

Next time you send a txt or make a call think about whether you actually need to make it. Most of the communication mankind makes these days is boring/futile/unnecessary rubbish that definitely doesn't require to be delivered 'instantly'
It's all about 'touching base' and self gratification not about making a genuine communication of any real value.

the fact that apple do this with something silly and frivolous like an iphone doesn't worry me, but car manufacturers who track your movements i would have a problem with. It becomes a very small step after that to personal tracker chips in necks.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 34):
but car manufacturers who track your movements i would have a problem with.

Well if you have a GPS unit in your car odds are your movements are being logged.

Recently there was a case where the police contacted lease companies seeking information about their vehicles after getting a partial plate. Turned out they company was able to identify its vehicle and the owners, and place them at the exact time and place of a crime. Additionally by tracking the movement of the vehicle after the crime police were able to recover a weapon which was dumped in a lake afterwards.

None of this bothers me however, as I do not see how one can feel you have privacy or anonymity when being out in the public. Your image and actions can get caught and stored on things like CCTV, or observed police man standing on the corner already.

Another great tool is what the city I live in has been in the process the last few years of installing is ALPR (Advanced license plate recognition) systems at mayor streets leading in/out of the city, plus all police cars.
A log is created of all cars as they drive into and out of the city, along with police cars scanning all parked plates and vehicles they drive by. This has led to numerous stolen vehicles being recovered, wanted drivers apprehended and good lead on crimes that have taken place.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Well if you have a GPS unit in your car odds are your movements are being logged.

I still have a map book...
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Klaus
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:05 pm

Apple has just released a statement explaining what iOS is and what it isn't doing with location data in the background:

Apple - Press Info - Apple Q&A on Location Data

As it turns out:

- The local database on the iPhone is actually not a recording of the iPhone's individual location history, but rather a slice of Apple's entire central WiFi/cell tower location data base (explained above), covering the larger areas visited by the iPhone (including places never actually seen by the device) and is actually downloaded from Apple to the device in chunks while it may have contributed only some of the data points itself.

- The portions of the central data base which have been downloaded to and cached on each device can in fact provide a rough location collection, but not a specific history since the time stamps are also coming from the data base.

- Apple has declared that the lack of a timeout limit for this cache is a bug which will be fixed shortly. It should get purged beyond a week old.

- Apple is apparently not just anonymously collecting WiFi and cell tower reception information, but also anonymous traffic/congestion data which they plan to use for a forthcoming navigation aid. This is an unusual glimpse into a future and as yet unannounced functionality, forced by the current situation.

Further:

Quote:
Software Update
Sometime in the next few weeks Apple will release a free iOS software update that:

• reduces the size of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database cached on the iPhone,

• ceases backing up this cache, and

• deletes this cache entirely when Location Services is turned off.

In the next major iOS software release the cache will also be encrypted on the iPhone.

This article explains the effects further as investigated by Heise.de:

Phone location data doesn't include a full movement profile - The H Security: News and Features

While I see the heightened interest in the affected privacy issues as justified, the actual, technical situation doesn't seem to warrant most (if not all) of the suspicions presented here or elsewhere.

[Edited 2011-04-27 07:07:14]
 
AM744
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:49 pm

In an ideal world a default GPS/Smartphone/iPhone tracking opt out should be provided contractually to users, except for those on probation or parole.

Authorities should carry regular audits on Telcos, GPS and Lo Jack style companies to make sure no tracking data is logged. It's just not needed from a technical stand point.

Want to find your device at the cost of making known where you have been for the past 10 years? Be my guest. Leave the rest of the people alone.

How many people are unwilling to share their email logging accounts or even lend their cell phone to their significant other and at the same time willing to share their location with god-knows-who?
 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:52 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
Apple has just released a statement explaining what iOS is and what it isn't doing with location data in the background:

Well well, Apple listened and is correcting the situation. I know there may have been some overreaction to this, but there just was no need to keep all this data for a year. You can argue one way or another for saving such data, but for a year? No way. Glad to hear they responded to their users wishes.
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:53 pm

Additional background: Interview with Steve Jobs and two of his top executives on the issue:

Q&A: Jobs and Apple Execs on Tracking Down the Facts About iPhones and Location | Ina Fried | Mobilized | AllThingsD
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4726
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Apple IPhone/IPad Tracking You

Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
No it isn't.

Yes, it is. Trust me on this one, I've dealt with a similar situation recently.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
To put it simply, you don't have a whole lot of 4th Amendment rights when you get pulled over by a cop while driving.

Say what? You have ALL your 4th Amendment rights when you get pulled over. Unless you fit the description of someone who committed a crime, or you have a bag of drugs in plain sight, they cannot search ANYTHING, except to pull you out of the car and check your person for weapons. Even then, they may not search anything else without your express permission or if they arrest you for another crime, based on probable cause.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
but it's not nearly the same as if the police entered your home, took your phone, and looked for where you've been.

It's EXACTLY the same. Unless the cop has a warrant, or sees illegal activity from the door, he is NOT coming in to look at anything. And if he does, anything he finds will be thrown out in court. This is why, even in known cases of, say, a burglary, once the house is cleared, if they feel the need to search for anything other than a burglar, they either get the homeowner's permission or a search warrant.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):

Authorities today very much have the legal right to determine every number you called, read every text sent or received, or where have you been by simply asking the phone company.

And the phone company has every legal right to tell them to piss off. Unfortunately, they don't often do that.
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