Obama confirmed the death of Osama Bin Laden Pt.1

Mir · Mon May 02, 2011 4:09 am

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 85):
Up until now I had assumed that OBL had been spread out in some nameless bomb crater back in the Fall of '01. Now it seems that Public Enemy #1 has been out and about for almost a decade, and when they do hit him, it is not in some cave, it is in a Pakistani mansion.

This is about the closure, not the way in which he was living. It is VERY significant, especially to those who witnessed the attacks that that man planned and directed.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 92):
Did I hear correctly Obama say that the mission happened today, rather than last week?

He said he gave the authorization last week, and the actual raid took place today. Presumably there's some setup time involved.

-Mir

STT757 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:12 am

Crowds are now gathering in Lower Manhattan, cheers and crying.

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 85):

Do I understand correctly that the American President is going to go on TV around midnight to announce this? You'd think the Imperial Japanese Forces had surrendered!

You have a point there ronglimeng - mind you not uncommon for that to be the case!!

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 88):
Abbottabad is home to the Pakistani Military Academy. Go figure!

FWIW, Fisky thinks that AlQ is beginning to irritate the Pakistani authorities. So that might not be a coincidence at all. It was impossible to think that the Pakistanis did not know where he was all those years?????

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 92):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 75):

The other point that Robert Fisk made was that in a sense OBL was defeated in 2011, not by being attacked or killed or whatever, but by the Arab street finally rising up and getting rid of dictators, a feat that OBL for all his efforts was not able to achieve.

Not hardly - many of those regimes were those Al Qaeda wanted to see overthrown. Al Qaeda did not want democracy in the Islamic world, they wanted islamist rule under Sharia - that is incompatible with democracy and civil liberties. Until we know what the new governments in Egypt and elsewhere look like, we cannot say whether the Middle East has gotten better or worse.

It seems wrong to infer (if you are doing so) that AlQ has had much to do with the revolts. Al Q might want Islamist rule under Sharia but it is far from clear that is what will result. These rebellions were NOT a result of AlQ activism. You are sounding like a Libyan version of Baghdad Bob. It is of course possible that your fears may be born out in practice, but there are strong forces for moderation in all those revolts so far. Let us see how sharia fares. For Egypt, it would cause major problems for the Copts. The Libyan rebels do not appear particularly religious.

I think (and hope) you are going to be sorely disappointed!!!

B595 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:13 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 95):
There has not been a SEAL T6 since 1987!

NSWDG(DEVGRU, or SFOD-D would be the most likely for this kind of Op.

Hence why I said DEVGRU/SEAL Team 6.... SEAL Team 6 is still used as a colloquial name for it.

STT757 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:17 am

I imagine they helicoptered in from Afghanistan, carried our the operation, grabbed the body and flew back.

Hey there's a certain poster here who's been absent lately, wonder if he's involved?

BMI727 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:20 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 104):

I imagine they helicoptered in from Afghanistan, carried our the operation, grabbed the body and flew back.

I think that there were probably plenty of American intelligence and special forces types in Pakistan anyway. He is neither the first nor the last terror kingpin to be nabbed in Pakistan.

FlyDeltaJets87 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:20 am

News I've been waiting nearly 10 years to hear.

Congrats to the US Special Ops and Intels teams that carried this out, and congrats to President Obama for making the call to follow through on the intel to pursue this opportunity.

LMP737 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:22 am

I wonder how long it will take for the first wacky conspircay theories about this event to pop up.

NIKV69 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:22 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 98):
Yeah, my crystal ball shows me some rather embarrassed Pakistani officials answering some rather embarrassing questions.

Seriously though I am not surprised.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 101):
Crowds are now gathering in Lower Manhattan, cheers and crying.

Mirrodie en route I told him to bring his camera!

[Edited 2011-05-01 21:34:34]

STT757 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:25 am

More reports coming in, others besides Bin Laden killed. One US helicopter went down due to mechanical issues, but no US lives lost. Seems like they flew right into the compound and the Special Forces team hit the ground fighting.

flanker · Mon May 02, 2011 4:26 am

What a noob hiding in a house 8x larger than anything around it.

Dreadnought · Mon May 02, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 102):
It seems wrong to infer (if you are doing so) that AlQ has had much to do with the revolts. Al Q might want Islamist rule under Sharia but it is far from clear that is what will result. These rebellions were NOT a result of AlQ activism. You are sounding like a Libyan version of Baghdad Bob. It is of course possible that your fears may be born out in practice, but there are strong forces for moderation in all those revolts so far. Let us see how sharia fares. For Egypt, it would cause major problems for the Copts. The Libyan rebels do not appear particularly religious.

I think (and hope) you are going to be sorely disappointed!!!

Don't think I'm hoping for it... No question AQ had little to do with the rebellions, other Islamist organizations perhaps a little more. But history has shown us how revolutions get hijacked only a few months later by groups who are organized and well connected. The Russian and French Revolutions for example.

mariner · Mon May 02, 2011 4:28 am

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 85):
Sorry boys, but I don't see much to crow about here!

Lest we forget and we reminding:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_kmf...c5Pw&feature=player_embedded#at=17

mariner

imiakhtar · Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 104):
I imagine they helicoptered in from Afghanistan, carried our the operation, grabbed the body and flew back.

Very unlikely. Pakistan's nuclear research labs are near by. They're covered by a very dense SAM system. US would do very well to fly 400 miles undetected. Most likely Specops were conducted via a Pakistani base with their approval. Unsurprisingly, mainstream media in Pakistan is not reporting the mission. Pakistan already gives tacit approval to drone strikes; can you imagine the public's reaction if the PM admitted US special forces were operating in the country?

STT757 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 108):
Mirrodie en route I told him to bring his camera!

Huge crowd gathering in Times Square circling FDNY fire trucks.

343 FDNY firefighters were killed on 9/11. They gave their lives trying to save others.

37 Port Authority Police killed on 9/11

23 NYPD killed on 9/11.

Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115

Total number killed in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819

Number of families who got no remains: 1,717

Superfly · Mon May 02, 2011 4:31 am

Good riddance!
Glad he was caught!

Quoting AI121 (Reply 56):
Do we get to see sex tapes with 72 virgins?

LOL!

[Edited 2011-05-01 21:38:16]

OA412 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:33 am

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 70):
not sure he has been in charge for a while...not that AQ needs a leadership.

Agreed. I have to wonder how much influence he's actually had over Al Qaeda over the last few years. I suspect you're correct, and that he has not been in charge.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 71):
No shooting guns in the air?

The celebration was taking place in DC, not Alabama.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 75):
Well MAF always maintained that wherever he was he would be nice and comfortable thank you very much.

Indeed. In fact, I would have been quite shocked if the opposite were true, and they'd actually found him living in a cave.

Quoting Mir (Reply 76):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 74):Better yet drag down the west side highway!
Make sure to take it on the Cross Bronx first - more potholes there.

LOL. Dorks.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 104):
Hey there's a certain poster here who's been absent lately, wonder if he's involved?

Interesting. If I'm thinking of the same poster, he really has been absent lately. Would be quite interesting if he were involved.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 108):
Mirrodie en route I told him to bring his camera!

I'm sure it'll be one of those experiences those in attendance will always remember, but I'd be far too lazy to brave the crowds. Much easier to watch it all on TV from the comfort of my home.

aerobalance · Mon May 02, 2011 4:33 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 109):
One US helicopter went down due to mechanical issues

What's with our damn helicopters going mech. at the worst times? 1979 Tehran hostage rescue attempt (Op. Eagle Claw) and now this? Pathetic.

scrubbsywg · Mon May 02, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 113):
Very unlikely. Pakistan's nuclear research labs are near by. They're covered by a very dense SAM system. US would do very well to fly 400 miles undetected. Most likely Specops were conducted via a Pakistani base with their approval. Unsurprisingly, mainstream media in Pakistan is not reporting the mission. Pakistan already gives tacit approval to drone strikes; can you imagine the public's reaction if the PM admitted US special forces were operating in the country?

CNN is reporting that they did in fact helicopter in from Afganistan. The sources were also saying that Pakistani intelligence operatives were on the ground as well, so it was done with approval and likely help of the pakistanis.

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 107):
I wonder how long it will take for the first wacky conspiracy theories about this event to pop up.

I guess the early ones will rapidly be Trumped. He was not a happy bear at that shindig the other night!

Quoting flanker (Reply 110):
What a noob hiding in a house 8x larger than anything around it.

See, you should pay more attention to MAF and then you would not be surprised at these things.

STT757 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 117):
What's with our damn helicopters going mech. at the worst times? 1979 Tehran hostage rescue attempt (Op. Eagle Claw) and now this? Pathetic.

There are conflicting reports on whether it was brought down due to a mechanical or hostile fire, regardless no US casualties.

D L X · Mon May 02, 2011 4:38 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 109):
One US helicopter went down due to mechanical issues, but no US lives lost. Seems like they flew right into the compound and the Special Forces team hit the ground fighting.

This is why I f**king love our military. The crash is extremely unfortunate, and not continuing the assault would have likely let the roach get away. Way to get 'er done!! I am so proud!

Apparently, he did not get to die at the hands of his bodyguards as was reported he wished, but rather a US Soldier put a bullet in his head.

Interesting: a woman was killed that Osama was using as a human shield.
Did he *really* expect that a human shield would stop us from shooting him even if it killed her also?

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 4:39 am

How do you suppose they got permission to attack? Obama was part of the critical path, but it must have been approved by Pakistan first. Otherwise the US and Pakistan would now be at war - well if they are not already at war that is!

[Edited 2011-05-02 04:11:06 by SA7700]

NIKV69 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:41 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 122):
but it must have been approved by Pakistan first.

I doubt we would have called off the attack if they said no.

OA412 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:43 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 119):
See, you should pay more attention to MAF and then you would not be surprised at these things.

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm drawing a blank as to who the MAF are.

Quoting D L X (Reply 121):
Interesting: a woman was killed that Osama was using as a human shield.
Did he *really* expect that a human shield would stop us from shooting him even if it killed her also?

He used a woman as a human shield. The clown was nothing but a coward up until the very end.

CPH-R · Mon May 02, 2011 4:43 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 107):
I wonder how long it will take for the first wacky conspircay theories about this event to pop up.

You're way behind the curve on that one. So far I've seen "OBL never existed" and "OBL has been dead for 10 years and his body kept in a fridge", surely more will follow once they get their few brain cells into action.

11Bravo · Mon May 02, 2011 4:44 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 122):
How do you suppose they got permission to attack?

We made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 4:45 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 123):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 122):
but it must have been approved by Pakistan first.

I doubt we would have called off the attack if they said no.

You might find you were invited. It must have been clear where he was for a long long time. No recent discovery this. No Pakistan approval, no attack, is the most likely scenario.

OA412 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:46 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 125):
You're way behind the curve on that one. So far I've seen "OBL never existed" and "OBL has been dead for 10 years and his body kept in a fridge", surely more will follow once they get their few brain cells into action.

Exactly. Every time something like this happens, they all come out in droves. I'm sure we'll soon hear someone say that "OBL was ordered by the US government to bring down the twin towers."

Mir · Mon May 02, 2011 4:46 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 123):
I doubt we would have called off the attack if they said no.

Obama has said he would go after bin Laden with or without Pakistan's permission, so I'd agree that their input was merely for appearance's sake.

-Mir

kaitak · Mon May 02, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 122):
How do you suppose they got permission to attack? Obama was part of the critical path, but it must have been approved by Pakistan first. Otherwise the US and Pakistan would now be at war - well if they are not already at war that is!

It would surprise me if the US got Pakistani permission for the attack; the US intelligence agencies know that the Pakistani authorities/govt is about as porous as a Swiss cheese, so they could not risk someone tipping AQ off; of course, it may well have been that someone in the Pakistani side tipped the Americans off, but the final decision would be an American one.

The big question I have relates to the AQ claim, last week, that it has a nuclear device in Europe, which would be detonated if AQ was killed or captured; I wonder if, when that statement was released, they already knew he had been killed?

Anyway, well done to all of those involved in this operation.

Next on the list: Al Zawahiri ...

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 4:49 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 126):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 122):
How do you suppose they got permission to attack?

We made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

That might well be true, but if it is, how is it that they have probably been refusing it for a few years now?

Dreadnought · Mon May 02, 2011 4:49 am

Food for thought - I am curious to see the reactions in Muslim streets.

imiakhtar · Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 am

For American users who aren't too familiar with Pakistan's geography, see location below:

Abbottabad (centre right) is about 150 miles from the Afghan border at Torkham (far left)

Mudboy · Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 am

Quoting B595 (Reply 103):
SEAL Team 6 is still used as a colloquial name for it.

Only by posers, not by anyone in the NSWC or USSOCOM or on the TEAMS!

I wish people would leave the politics out of this, this was a Military Operation, and they, and the CIA and Intel community, should be the ones getting credit, not a bunch of winbags in suits.

irelayer · Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 am

He got his due.

-IR

Newark727 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:53 am

So far I'm a bit confused as to the nature of the loss of the helicopter and the involvement/non-involvement of Pakistani intelligence. I guess that will become clearer at some point.

It's a bit uneasy to celebrate this sort of action but this was probably the only sort of justice we ever could have gotten with a man like Osama bin Laden.

PSA53 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:54 am

I can't remember when the last time I hung "Old Glory" outside my house.But she's hanging there now!

Great day for America.Maybe since VE or VJ day.Way to go,Mr.President! Yes! I Thank you to all of you in colors for you're saciface.

czbbflier · Mon May 02, 2011 4:55 am

This is a momentous time for Americans worldwide. It has been a long hard and grueling ten years. You must all be very happy and in a celebratory mood.

Be safe tonight and for the rest of the week.

In the longer term, don't forget that taking OBL out is just the first step. There will be push back from al Queda- so if you are overseas or if you are with the services, be careful.

My thoughts are with you on this very happy day.

D L X · Mon May 02, 2011 4:55 am

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 113):
Unsurprisingly, mainstream media in Pakistan is not reporting the mission.

What if anything is the Pakistani media reporting? Are they reporting that he's dead?

TheCol · Mon May 02, 2011 4:56 am

Prime Minister Harper

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/insi...n-to-death-of-osama-bin-laden.html

Quote:
On September 11, 2001, twenty-four Canadians were murdered in the Al Qaeda attack on the World Trade Centre. The death of Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, reported today by President Obama, secures a measure of justice for these Canadians and their families.

Bin Laden's death does not end the threat of international terrorism. Sadly, others will take his place.
But, this does remind us why Canadian armed forces personnel have been deployed to Afghanistan: to deny al Qaeda and organizations like it, the use of Afghanistan, where the 9/11 attack was conceived and planned.

Through their operations there to cut off terror at its root, our men and women in uniform have made an enormous contribution to Canadian security abroad.

At home, dedicated security officials work tirelessly and with success, to prevent similar attacks in Canada. Protection of the public is the first and most important duty of government.

Canada receives the news of the death of Osama bin Laden with sober satisfaction. We will continue to stand firm with our allies against the threat of global terrorism.

LMP737 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:56 am

Quoting flanker (Reply 110):
What a noob hiding in a house 8x larger than anything around it.

So much for all that talk over the years of him living in caves and being used to a spartan existance. In the end it shows he enjoyed his creature comforts. It probably also shows he started believing his own PR.

cpd · Mon May 02, 2011 4:57 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 134):
should be the ones getting credit, not a bunch of winbags in suits.

Of course they should get the credit, but if the conditions were different and the other side was in power, they'd be just as much looking to score maximum credit for this.

This is justice finally for all those who died in those 9/11 attacks, and also the Bali bombings too.

NIKV69 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 127):
No Pakistan approval, no attack, is the most likely scenario.

I seriously doubt it.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 132):
Food for thought - I am curious to see the reactions in Muslim streets.

Me too.

Quoting PSA53 (Reply 137):
I can't remember when the last time I hung "Old Glory" outside my house.But she's hanging there now!

Good job!

OA412 · Mon May 02, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 138):
In the longer term, don't forget that taking OBL out is just the first step. There will be push back from al Queda- so if you are overseas or if you are with the services, be careful.

Indeed. Everyone needs to be a bit more vigilant over the coming weeks and months.

imiakhtar · Mon May 02, 2011 4:59 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 139):
What if anything is the Pakistani media reporting? Are they reporting that he's dead?

It's very low key. Snippets here and there. The big news in Pakistan at the moment is Pakistan's win over the West Indies in the cricket!

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 5:00 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 132):
Food for thought - I am curious to see the reactions in Muslim streets.

Not yet the street but here is an English language version (and you really should watch Al Jazeera you know!!)

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...-a-path-fanaticism-and-terror.html
They picked up AP
Bin Laden took a path of fanaticism and terror
Paul Haven, Associated Press | Mon, 05/02/2011 11:33 AM | World
The most intense manhunt in history finally caught up with Osama bin Laden, but his life's story will be told many different ways by different people.

Reviled in the West as the personification of evil, bin Laden was admired and even revered by some fellow Muslims who embraced his vision of unending jihad against the United States and Arab governments he deemed as infidels.
http://us.detiknews.com/read/2011/05...setelah-ditembak-di-kepala?9911012
Just straight reportage as far as I can see.

You might just be surprised how unloved he is. The Islamic street is well aware of who jihadis have been killing preferentially even if it appears that you forget at times!!!

baroque · Mon May 02, 2011 5:04 am

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 145):
The big news in Pakistan at the moment is Pakistan's win over the West Indies in the cricket!

So God is indeed in his heaven. Mind you, a bit of a push over though!!

B595 · Mon May 02, 2011 5:05 am

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 134):
Only by posers, not by anyone in the NSWC or USSOCOM or on the TEAMS!

Ok, then here's your opportunity to edit the Wiki piece on DEVGRU:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._Special_Warfare_Development_Group

"The United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group (NSWDG), commonly known as DEVGRU and informally by its former name SEAL Team Six (ST6)."

soon7x7 · Mon May 02, 2011 5:07 am

A long time in coming...while some may say this is insignificant, this is huge!...Qudos to the American Forces, and to our President for standing behind this action. Good news for once. As far as retribution by radical factions...so what, what else is new...they have been threatening us for decades. Great day including the AF#447 black box find!...yippie!...good news for once!

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