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futurepilot16
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Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:25 pm

So i'm going through a stack of bills that I have been avoiding since I was in the hospital last august and decided to pay off the rest. I'm looking at some of the ridiculous charges but one in particular caught my attention. It stated:

8/4/10 INITIAL INPATIENT CONSULTATION $309.00 DR. GREENSPAN

In short, this doctor charged me $309.00 because he walked into my hospital room and asked how I was doing, no friggin lie. I wish I was exxagerating, Just like the stream of doctors that morning who visited in my LESS than 24 hours stay, he basically asked me how I was and gave me his card. Not only that, but he was the last one who visited before I got the hell outta there, he stayed the shortest time, and he was the only one who charged me  

WTF   How can robbery like this be legal? My insurance paid half of this bogus charge, and now i'm stuck with a past due balance of $146.12! Furthermore, why do we pay so much for insurance each month and they can't pay the whole charge? I guess that argument's for another day!

Does anyone else have the feeling that they'd rather die than set foot into another hospital or doctor's office? Because that's how I feel. My allergies this past spring gave me a severe form of bronchitis and my mom literally begged me to go to the hospital because I couldn't breathe, instead I went to the Pharmacy and got an OTC Zyrtec for 22.95 which cured me in 2 days. A Doctor's visit and a prescription for the same pill would have cost 20 maybe even 30 times that much   I guess my lesson is...DON'T GET SICK!
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
NIKV69
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:34 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
DON'T GET SICK!

Or as Alan Grayson said.

"Die quickly"   
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:45 pm

I'd contest that with the hospital if it's not too late, might it just be an honest clerical error?

It's hearing stories like yours which makes me thankful for the NHS in the UK. So many people complain about it, but few realise just how good they have it compared to most other countries.


Dan  
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Derico
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:46 pm

I simply don't understand how Americans put up with such a fleecing.

I heard a friend of my father had an apendectomy, $30,000. That's just criminal I'm sorry. That is not the fault of a private system or a government supported one, there is just plain old robbery going on there.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
474218
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:53 pm

Check your hospital bills closely! My wife as charged for oxygen during a hospital stay but she never used any oxygen! When I questioned it they said the room my wife was in was not equipped with the built in oxygen system so they put an oxygen bottle in her room. Everything removed from the store room and placed in a patients room had to be paid for. I asked, since she did not use any oxygen what did you do with the bottle? They said they put it back in the store room. So now it is back in the store room and if you put it in another room they will have to pay for it too? Yes!!!

A visit to the hospital administrator with a letter to the local newspaper got the charge removed, quickly.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:05 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Does anyone else have the feeling that they'd rather die than set foot into another hospital or doctor's office? Because that's how I feel.

Not quite die, but I often put off doctor visits until I have no other alternative.

I have a story similar to yours. I have been diagnosed with PVCs - Premature Ventricular Contractions, which means that sometimes one of the ventricles in my heart gets ahead of itself and beats out of time, causing the entire heart to briefly stop and reset itself. This condition is generally benign at my age, but can sometimes be disconcerting if you get several of these "heart resets" in a row. It can also be quite painful after the first few, and can make you feel ill.

Last year, my heart had stopped and reset itself many times and didn't seem to be stopping. My fiancee, concerned for my health, begged me to go to the emergency room. I refused to go because I didn't want to pay an arm and a leg for something "benign," but finally she talked me into it and I went.

I got there, told them my issue, and was led into a triage room and left there for 20 minutes, during which time the PVCs stopped. When the nurse finally returned, she took me to receive an EKG. I told her that there'd be no point now as the PVCs had stopped and my heart was beating normally again. Nevetheless, they hooked me up and, surprise, my heart was beating normally and there was little they could do.

I was prepared to leave, knowing I already had at least an $80 bill jjust for walking in the door plus whatever the EKG charge was, but instead I was asked to wait. So I waited. And waited. And waited. An hour passed with me just sitting in this triage room twiddling my thumbs. Finally, a doctor showed up, only to tell me what the nurse already had: my EKG was normal, so there was nothing they could do, and maybe next time I should try to get to the hospital the instant these things started so that they could hook me up in time. I explained that they would have caught it had I not been made to wait 20 minutes in the triage room before being hooked up. The doctor said "sorry for your wait" and then cleared me to leave.

Thats all he said, and all he did. Two weeks later I received a bill for $300 from the Physicians partnership at the hospital, and another $310 bill from the hospital themselves for being seen. $610 bill to wait around and be told I was fine, half of that being a 5 minute conversation with a doctor who told me the same thing the nurse already had.

This is the problem with health care in America today. The cost of being seen is so exorbitant that people simply avoid the doctor rather than getting the treatment they need. Preventative care is skipped because people don't want the massive bill that goes with it, which in turn allows health issues that could have been treated if caught early, to progress into more serious illnesses requiring serious care to take care of. Fortunately, there are clinics which are usually cheaper, but clinics can't treat you for serious problems. Few clinics can do X-rays. Few clinics can or will do surgery. And while the price might be lower when you walk in the door, care for a serious illness can reach hospital-level prices in a hurry, and most clinics insist on being paid up front before services are rendered.

I am always envious of my fiancee's ability to visit a doctor whenever she has a need. Being from Britain, a visit to the doctor is no big deal for her. No fears of bankruptcy-inducing medical bills. She has access to universal health care, and can get all the preventative treatment she needs in order to catch things early. She can even afford regular checkups and physicals to stay on top of things. Recently, her mother got breast cancer and had a yearlong battle including a masectomy, chemotherapy and radiotherapy. Her mother is fully recovered now, fortunately, because she could act on it fast. They aren't rich by any means, and didn't have to sell a single asset to cover her treatment.

In America, I've had friends who had to sell their homes to cover the cost of cancer treatment. And this is why we need health care reform, and why I support it, and why I'm so angry with folks who are trying to stop it.
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:14 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
How can robbery like this be legal? My insurance paid half of this bogus charge, and now i'm stuck with a past due balance of $146.12!

Welcome to medicine in the US.

In all fairness, the doctor probably spent far more reviewing your chart than he did spending time with you. Depending on the various information in that chart he might also have talked with other doctors in the chart, or at a minimum, gone over the charts with your nurse.

In terms of his time in your room he should have examined you at some level. Part of that exam would be simply observing you, part asking questions and part a physical exam - like listening to your chest. It can be surprising just how much information is pulled from the chart review and how he works in your room.

As far as his fees, you can always call and offer half now for full payment, or a $25 a monty payoff. Most will take the half now.

In terms of the costs of medicine today, until we reach a point of core care paid for by a Medicare system you will just have to suck it up. Our medicine is the most expensive in the world for a reason - too many companies and hospitals are making a killing off of it. Eventually corporations will simply stop paying the nanny care they are over charged for and that is when the system will fall apart. The ironic thing is that the unions have been the main force in maintaining health insurance for the middle class and the Republicans, who want to maintain employer nanny care, are out to kill the unions - which will speed up killing employer nanny care.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:19 pm

There are a number of reasons for such high bills, especially from hospitals. There is the need to get the money needed to cover for unpaid bills, care to the poor, care for illegals, those working under the table and not covered by workman's comp insurance or who don't have insurance from an employer or on their own, are under-insured or have high deductions,or not qualified for Medicare/Medicaid. There is, like in other services, attempts to find ways to enhance revenues, there are substantial errors made, problems with insurance companies paying or doing so in a timely way, the carrying costs of slow paid bills as well as the need to perhaps be overstaffed with it's costs to cover for times of high demand.

In New Jersey, they have made some changes so that someone who does not have insurance and of lower income, pays for servcies what the insurance companies pay, which is a price that is much lower that the 'list' price.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
In New Jersey, they have made some changes so that someone who does not have insurance and of lower income, pays for servcies what the insurance companies pay, which is a price that is much lower that the 'list' price.

That's a decent idea.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
There are a number of reasons for such high bills, especially from hospitals. There is the need to get the money needed to cover for unpaid bills, care to the poor, care for illegals....

Which is why there is a need for reform, so that these "problems" are accounted for. If reform managed to make hospital bills lower for people, you might see more paying users instead of folks receiving treatment and never paying. I should think a lower price but greater volume of paying users might have at least SOME positive effect on the way hospitals operate. I don't see our current system sustainable over the long term. The higher the prices go, the fewer people choose to fork it over except for those who are financially well off.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:28 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5):
I have a story similar to yours. I have been diagnosed with PVCs - Premature Ventricular Contractions, which means that sometimes one of the ventricles in my heart gets ahead of itself and beats out of time, causing the entire heart to briefly stop and reset itself. This condition is generally benign at my age, but can sometimes be disconcerting if you get several of these "heart resets" in a row. It can also be quite painful after the first few, and can make you feel ill.

I Know the feeling, I suffer from Atrial Fibrilation!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
In all fairness, the doctor probably spent far more reviewing your chart than he did spending time with you. Depending on the various information in that chart he might also have talked with other doctors in the chart, or at a minimum, gone over the charts with your nurse.

I didn't ask him to check my charts, I had already started getting ready and was about to check out. He wasn't my primary care physician so it's bogus that he would even do that. I was admitted at around 2am that morning, and hadn't been visited by any doctors after until about 8am, with this last guy visiting me around 4pm, hours after I told the staff that I wanted to go home, but they insisted I wait. The first doctor that walked in told me that HE was the one who reviewed my charts and explained to me what Atrial Fibrilation was, and the treatment, the websites that could help me better understand it and he even wrote me the prescription for a beta blocking drug that would help to prevent and stop further attacks, all in all, he spent about 20 minutes with me.

Why in the world didn't he charge me initially? He was a cardiologist with his own private practice and he is who I went to after I left the hospital and the weeks following that visit. Furthermore, 2 other doctors, who also "reviewed my charts" visited as well because they were in the area at that time, and I still wasn't charged. What's the explanation for that?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:47 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 9):
I didn't ask him to check my charts, I had already started getting ready and was about to check out.

Hospitals have protocols. SOme are based on sound medical practice. Some are hospital policies based on the requirements of their insurance policies. You walk into a hospital and you are subject to their policies and protocols.

One question I would be asking - how much of your wait was because of the uninsured who go to the ER instead of a local doctor or clinic? Could your time have been dramatically cut with a more intelligent system?  
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:18 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
Welcome to medicine in the US.



I agree with a lot of what you stated however, I just got my lawnmower repaired. If I had chosen not to pay their price for repair I still would have been on the hook for $60 for their assessment of what needed doing. I had the air conditioner repairman out a few weeks ago. I went with the tune up and he dismissed the $75 dollar charge for just coming out that I would have been on the hook for. Had to have the wife's car looked at due to the battery light coming on at odd intervals, it was the alternator. Getting it replaced eliminated the computer diagnostic only charge of $55. Doctors are not the only ones that hit you up for just reviewing your case. Lawyers will charge a "consultation" fee and no one seems to complain about that.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
There are a number of reasons for such high bills, especially from hospitals. There is the need to get the money needed to cover for unpaid bills, care to the poor, care for illegals, those working under the table and not covered by workman's comp insurance or who don't have insurance from an employer or on their own, are under-insured or have high deductions,or not qualified for Medicare/Medicaid.



Not to mention the ridiculously low ball settlements that medicare pays, which of course the hospitals and doctors then pass on in the form of higher and more numerous charges to private insurance companies. If you turned it all over to the government they would still pay low leading to reduced, rationed, or restricted services.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
In New Jersey, they have made some changes so that someone who does not have insurance and of lower income, pays for service's what the insurance companies pay, which is a price that is much lower that the 'list' price.



There have been a number of press reports of people who on their own have done just this and negotiated a lower price than billed based on what insurance companies pay due their volume of business.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:38 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Lawyers will charge a "consultation" fee and no one seems to complain about that.

That;'s because you personally go there for consulation, this man felt the need to charge me for a service I did not ask for and did not want.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
One question I would be asking - how much of your wait was because of the uninsured who go to the ER instead of a local doctor or clinic? Could your time have been dramatically cut with a more intelligent system?  

Doesn't matter to me, I don't see why hospitals are obligated to hold you hostage until they're satisfied that they've racked up enough charges on your bill. It is something that is dangerously wrong with the Health care system.

Just as an FYI. People seem to think i'm upset because this doctor charged me a fee. No, I am upset because he charged me an unnecessary fee in a ridiculous amount when I never asked for or even wanted his consultation. I know doctors charge fees, that's the bulk of my medical bills from last year, I have no problem paying those. But $309.00 to repeat what 3 other doctors have already told me and did not charge to tell me? There's something wrong with that, no matter how you look at it!
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 12):
That;'s because you personally go there for consulation, this man felt the need to charge me for a service I did not ask for and did not want.

Not necessarily but you have point. It would be interesting to see who called for his consultation, someone had to.
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DocLightning
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):

WTF How can robbery like this be legal?

It isn't. It's called billing fraud.

You should call your insurance company and inform them of this.
-Doc Lightning-

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babybus
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:38 pm

Reading this thread makes me feel so very proud of our NHS.

I don't know what hospital insurance is like but if it's like most insurance they find a clause not to pay up.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:22 pm

My favorite story that happened to me was when my dad came to visit me in the U.S. and had a bad muscle strain on his leg (he could barely move for a couple of days). Given his age and that he had come out from a long-distance flight a few days before, the hospital wanted to do a sonogram on his leg to rule out deep-vein thrombosis (on Labor Day - you have no idea how spooky a totally empty hospital floor, radiology, can be). Since he had travel insurance with no protocol with that particular hospital, he explicitly told the billing department he wanted to pay everything in cash on discharge from the hospital so he could send the bill to the insurance company afterwards, but they still made him leave contact information in the U.S., so he gave them my U.S. phone number and address, where he was staying. Several months later, long after he had closed the case with the insurance company back in Portugal, I start getting calls on my cell phone from the hospital, wanting to get in touch with my dad because the bill he had paid on discharge apparently covered only the hospital fees and the sonogram, not the physician's fees, so they wanted him to pay extra! I asked them to send the final bill to me so I could figure out what to do with it, but they refused (could only send it to him, apparently, and I refused to provide them with his contact information) so after a while they just stopped calling - probably realized collecting wasn't worth the effort.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
but he was the last one who visited before I got the hell outta there, he stayed the shortest time, and he was the only one who charged me

Without knowing the details of this case, but I found it odd that the only guy who apparently charged you was that guy, which implies that the other doctors that saw you didn't. Have you considered the possibility that maybe this guy was the head on-call doctor that night and the other doctors were all working for him, and that is why his was the only name on the bill? Maybe the other doctors took care of you and he just stopped by as a supervisor, to make sure everything was indeed OK, but in the end only one bill went out for all the medical services provided? Not saying that is the case, but with the limited information available certainly sounds like a possibility.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
In New Jersey, they have made some changes so that someone who does not have insurance and of lower income, pays for servcies what the insurance companies pay, which is a price that is much lower that the 'list' price.

I once discussed hospital billing with someone who was in charge of a workman's comp insurance company in the US. Although they need to pay for medical treatment as well, unlike medical insurance they had no say in what hospitals or physicians the people covered used, or the services rendered, as supposedly those were to cover accidents on the job. That person told me that hospitals knew this, and that they had "deep pockets" so they routinely over-billed them for the services provided. They employed outside parties to conduct medical bill review, and after those reviews what they ended up paying to the hospitals was slightly less than 50% of what had originally been billed.
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blrsea
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:42 pm

Almost everyone here in US appears to have an horror story about the huge medical bills they have got at least once. However, looks like more than half don't want to reform the health system that the US has. The last 2010 elections showed that most of the people disagreed with obama's healthcare plan and voted out the democrats.

And I find it strange that most hospitals/doctors charge more for patients without insurance. The major reason many people don't have insurance is because they can't afford it. However, if you walk into a doctor's office without insurance, they charge you almost twice of what they would have negotiated with the insurance companies.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting blrsea (Reply 17):
Almost everyone here in US appears to have an horror story about the huge medical bills they have got at least once. However, looks like more than half don't want to reform the health system that the US has. The last 2010 elections showed that most of the people disagreed with obama's healthcare plan and voted out the democrats.

It would appear so, but the republicans, in their attempt to make the Obama Admin seem like a sinking ship, came up with everything they possibly could to stop health care reform, even if everyday Americans will have to suffer. Anyone remember death panels?  

With the amount of money coming out of my paycheck every month, I would expect that we would be able to have a very good and sustainable NHS. But most of that money goes to killing Muslims and funding roadwork that makes me late for work, so what do I know!
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:27 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
It would appear so, but the republicans, in their attempt to make the Obama Admin seem like a sinking ship, came up with everything they possibly could to stop health care reform, even if everyday Americans will have to suffer.

Since the democrats had an overwhelming majority in the House, and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, plus control of the White House from January 2009 to January 2010, the GOP could hardly have done anything to "stop" health care reform. But a nice try at deflecting where the real breakdown was, which was among democratic members of the two Houses plus a real lack of any leadership from the White House.

The public sees how the government runs things in this country and is rightly worried about giving them any more control over their personal lives.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
gigneil
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:08 pm

Fortunately, we've passed legislation to resolve the massively overescalated cost of healthcare in the US and make it affordable and accessible to every citizen regardless of income or employment status.

NS
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:16 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Not to mention the ridiculously low ball settlements that medicare pays, which of course the hospitals and doctors then pass on in the form of higher and more numerous charges to private insurance companies. If you turned it all over to the government they would still pay low leading to reduced, rationed, or restricted services.

There are solutions to this too of course, but nobody wants to discuss them. Private insurers don't want to discuss them, trial lawyers don't want to discuss them, and system-gaming physicians (not all do this of course) certainly don't want to. Hospital administrators definitely don't want to discuss them as it means running facilities tax-exempt as non profit organizations and eliminating union radiology and nurse labor with their vastly inflated salaries.

Quoting dxing (Reply 19):
The public sees how the government runs things in this country and is rightly worried about giving them any more control over their personal lives.

This is quite unfortunate wouldn't you say, given the robber barons running big pharma, many hospitals, and the private insurance system are not doing any better? If the government were more competent in other areas, people might be willing to consider effective solutions that are working elsewhere and have been for years.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Furthermore, why do we pay so much for insurance each month and they can't pay the whole charge? I guess that argument's for another day!

Because they're effin crooks too? See below.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5):
I have been diagnosed with PVCs - Premature Ventricular Contractions, which means that sometimes one of the ventricles in my heart gets ahead of itself and beats out of time, causing the entire heart to briefly stop and reset itself. This condition is generally benign at my age, but can sometimes be disconcerting if you get several of these "heart resets" in a row. It can also be quite painful after the first few, and can make you feel ill.

Welcome to the fun world of these little bastards. Have had them since I was 26. Luckily I was living in Japan when first diagnosed and the cost to have the full evaluation was negligible. I had follow up workup for them while living in the US earlier this year that cost nearly $1200 out of pocket despite cadillac insurance at my law firm (~$800/month for the plan I had). The same tests and consultations in Japan would have cost less than that in total, and there's something very wrong with that!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
gigneil
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:30 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 19):
The public sees how the government runs things in this country and is rightly worried about giving them any more control over their personal lives.

If the government would stop trying to control their personal lives and just run the damn country, that'd be great.

However, the "small government" party is busy trying to legislate love and the "big government" party refuses to grow a pair and install some real actual big government.

NS
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:33 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
Fortunately, we've passed legislation to resolve the massively overescalated cost of healthcare in the US and make it affordable and accessible to every citizen regardless of income or employment status

We have? When? Certainly you don't mean the ACA?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 21):
If the government were more competent in other areas, people might be willing to consider effective solutions that are working elsewhere and have been for years.

Care to name a civilian branch of the government that has produced an effective solution that is working?

Quoting gigneil (Reply 22):
If the government would stop trying to control their personal lives and just run the damn country, that'd be great.

Unfortunately it doesn't get much more personal than your health.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:37 am

Any time this subject comes up, I'm reminded about what I was told about the health care industry waaaay back in 2000 ~ 2001. The accounting class I was taking was being taught by a CPA that had worked in said industry. In a nutshell, he divulged that part of the reason that costs of care are so high is that hospitals (for example) have no real idea how much it costs to treat a patient. If they give you a couple of pills of OTC pain reliever, for example, they're likely to charge you for the entire bottle. Why? They really have no incentive to do so since most people have insurance that will pay most of the tab anyway, so the patient is largely insulated from the impact of the full bill.

My last visit to a hospital racked up nearly $15,000 in charges. Then I got my insurance discount (which knocked about 50% off the top). Now I'm only responsible for what turns out to be about 20% of the total after the insurance paid it's portion of the discounted bill. Did the hospital lose money on my procedure? Not by a long shot. Sure there's a lot of padding to make up for people who don't (can't) pay thier bill, but there is also a lot of laziness involved too.

If a auto service center were able to use the same business practices, an oil change would probably cost a few hundred dollars.

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
but the republicans, in their attempt to make the Obama Admin seem like a sinking ship, came up with everything they possibly could to stop health care reform

It wouldn't have really reformed much, since it didn't address the cost of health care, just who was required to pay for it.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:55 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Not to mention the ridiculously low ball settlements that medicare pays,

Medicare pays for the treatment or procedure or test. Medicare does not pay the add ons for those who cannot pay.

Private insurance generally pays an agreed percentage of the bill - a 25% - 30% is pretty normal.

While hospitals moan about the Medicare payment they generally accept Medicare. Especially the ones that are a part of a system that also receives research grants.

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
If you turned it all over to the government they would still pay low leading to reduced, rationed, or restricted services.

They would pay for the treatment, test, etc. And not allow unnecessary markups. But IF it was all turned over (at east at the core care level) then there would be no need to jack up costs to cover those who cannot pay as everyone would be covered. That would allow for an overall reduction in charges.

Quoting dxing (Reply 19):
Since the democrats had an overwhelming majority in the House, and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, plus control of the White House from January 2009 to January 2010, the GOP could hardly have done anything to "stop" health care reform.

Wrong again - the Republicans have been experts at obstructing legislation. So good at it that the Democrats will know how to do it just as well when the Republicans get control. Personal holds, filibustering, etc. We are now in the era of inaction by obstruction.

Quoting dxing (Reply 19):
The public sees how the government runs things in this country and is rightly worried about giving them any more control over their personal lives.

Or they see how the Republicans obstruct anything that will not benefit the big money in this country and are worried just how bad things have to get for the middle class before even the conservatives say "enough".

Quoting gigneil (Reply 22):
If the government would stop trying to control their personal lives and just run the damn country, that'd be great.

The government does run the country, especially in areas where they has been past abuses in the private sector.

In the medical area that includes everything from the snake oil salesmen to teaching standards. The FDA, NIH, and all the medical departments (VA, BIA, Military, etc.) are part of the government. And the government obviously has an interest in the private companies they pay money to, be it for employee nanny care or medical research. And let's not forget the government payments for Medicare, Medicaid and all the other special programs, like special needs kids in schools.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 21):
Hospital administrators definitely don't want to discuss them as it means running facilities tax-exempt as non profit organizations and eliminating union radiology and nurse labor with their vastly inflated salaries.

None of the hospitals in TUL are union. But costs are still high.

Looking at nurses with a BS degree - how much did it cost to get that degree? Some therapists have to have a Masters and PTs in the state will soon have to have a PhD. (Crap, I know, but they believe they will make more money.)

It's isn't cheap to become a well educated medical provider these days. There are a lot of government subsidies on the education side, but it's still cost a lot. Salaries therefore need to be set at a level that will cover those costs, just like in accounting, finance or law. That's not rocket science and areas that don't recognize that reality will face shortages in the future.
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:33 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
Medicare pays for the treatment or procedure or test.

And it pays less than the cost of the treatment, procedure, or test actually costs. The rest is made up by higher fees to private insurers.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
While hospitals moan about the Medicare payment they generally accept Medicare.

Less and less are. That trend will continue as the ACA is dependent on savings in costs to doctors and hospitals.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
They would pay for the treatment, test, etc. And not allow unnecessary markups.

At below market prices which would lead to less availability, and rationing of treatments, tests, and procedures.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
then there would be no need to jack up costs to cover those who cannot pay as everyone would be covered. That would allow for an overall reduction in charges.

Since medicare already does not pay the full price, we are already paying higher prices in the private market to subsidize medicare beyond what is taken in FICA taxes.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
filibustering,

Since the democratic party had a 60 seat majority in the Senate from January of 2009 to January 2010, the GOP could not filibuster anything to do with health care, and they didn't. Any attempt to filibuster could be voted down by the majority party. In fact out of 40 clouture votes, only 5 were voted down, and 3 of those were later voted for. None of the votes for cloture on any health care related issue failed to pass. Sorry, you can't change history just because you would like too. The democratic party failed to lead on a number of fronts from 2008 to 2010 and paid the price for it.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/111.shtml

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
We are now in the era of inaction by obstruction.

As we were from 1994 to 2000 and again from 2002 to 2006 and again now in 2010-2011.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
Or they see

They see and thus voted the way they did in 2010.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
YokoTsuno
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
In short, this doctor charged me $309.00 because he walked into my hospital room and asked how I was doing, no friggin lie.
Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
I heard a friend of my father had an apendectomy, $30,000
If you think this is a lot you'd better this. There's currently a lawsuit pending here in Singapore which defies belief.Like Gordon Gekko said "Greed is Good"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...-million-bill-mark-up-inquiry.html
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:36 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
futurepilot16

I had a string of medical problems in NY that I had to deal with, and during one of my stays at the hospital (whihc stretched over a long period) one of the nurses explained how billing (at least in NY) is done.

The name on the wristband is the important one. That is the admitting physician and the head name on all of the papers. If you get admitted directly from the ER to the hospital, many times a physician is just assigned to you. Most of the time, they don't really do much that a patient can see. They may see you for 5-10 mins one time, but that is usually it. They are in charge of approving Rx's and generally making sure treatment is coordinated. Unless you are being followed by an outside specialist, all of the regular hospital doctors are covered under the admitting physicians name for the sake of billing. Each doctor that visits you puts their name on your chart and what they did, and then collect a portion of the payment from the admitting physician. It sounds like this is what happened in your case.

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
I heard a friend of my father had an apendectomy, $30,000. That's just criminal I'm sorry. That is not the fault of a private system or a government supported one, there is just plain old robbery going on there.

And that is just for a simple abdominal surgery. When I had to get shunt placed in my brain, the total hospital bill came to just shy of $150000. Luckily my parents insurance covered most of it. When possible, I leave all my medical treatment until I am in Germany, where I pay 10€ every 4 months to see my doctors.
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:05 am

When I broke my ankle on March 19, I was shocked to get a bill from the Fire Department for the rescue squad. To take me a distance of less then 4 miles, I was billed almost $1000.00. I practically had a stroke when I saw that. Thank goodness for insurance. I still haven't gotten the hospital bill yet, but that should be a good laugh...considering I was there for 5 days, and had surgery.

You know these prices are insane when I can go to Vegas for a few days, and not spend that much. Now I can't use my next trip as an example since I'm being comped...

Marc
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:18 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 24):
They really have no incentive to do so since most people have insurance that will pay most of the tab anyway, so the patient is largely insulated from the impact of the full bill.

This one of the reasons we have high costs. People don't know what they pay because they are removed from the cost by the insurance company. Look at your bill sometime. You'll see that, if you're insured, you get a 'discount'. This is the negotiated rate. Those without insurance get to pay the full rate.

IMHO, the better insurance plans are the high deductible, HSA plans. They force you to shop for doctors and treatment. You still get the discount, but, until you reach your deductible, you pay the bill instead of a co-pay. It will keep you from going to the doctor for the sniffles.

As for doctors tacking onto your bill; I'd suggest calling and finding out exactly what he did for you. As mentioned, he may have had some behind the scenes action that warranted the billing. Just call and ask. Question your bills. Don't pay them blindly. Don't let your insurance company pay them blindly. Understand what you're paying for.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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ozglobal
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:17 am

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
I guess my lesson is...DON'T GET SICK!
Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 5):
Not quite die, but I often put off doctor visits until I have no other alternative.

Given the US as a whole seems to be alergic to a functional healthcare system and half the country sees it as their right to be pay 5 times as much for care or have it denied so that coporations can improve profits and that not withstanding all that has been achieved toward a better system the GOP are hell bent on rolling it back regardless of its benefits, I can only suggest you move to Europe, Canada, the UK or Australia. America seems determined to remain with a corrupt and disfunctional system that only works for the hyper rich.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 29):
considering I was there for 5 days, and had surgery.

              

They're gonna kill you with bills. I remember when my mom fractured her ankle. Did you see a physical therapist afterwards?, because those bills won't stop coming in.

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 31):
Given the US as a whole seems to be alergic to a functional healthcare system and half the country sees it as their right to be pay 5 times as much for care or have it denied so that coporations can improve profits and that not withstanding all that has been achieved toward a better system the GOP are hell bent on rolling it back regardless of its benefits, I can only suggest you move to Europe, Canada, the UK or Australia. America seems determined to remain with a corrupt and disfunctional system that only works for the hyper rich.

That's not the problem, the problem is that some of us (i'll restrain from using any names) are allergic to any government control, especially to such a large sector of the economy. So that same portion of us have been using everything they can to block what they call "socialist health care" and what not. What they don't want to admit is that they are trolls, who don't want the uninsured to have it easy when it comes to medical care, because then the long lines at the doctors office and the hospitals begin. Not that it means anything to me, i'm fully insured and still paying a very high price with these doctor bills.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
ozglobal
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:22 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 32):
i'm fully insured and still paying a very high price with these doctor bills.

It hard to see for those of us from the rest of the industrialized world how both of those things can be true at the same time. You seem to be in the category I mentioned as paying " 5 times as much for care" compared to the those from coutries where heathcare is universal and cheaper. It's really unfathomable to us why the majority stand for this in the US...
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 31):
I can only suggest you move to Europe, Canada, the UK or Australia. America seems determined to remain with a corrupt and disfunctional system that only works for the hyper rich.

Some of us have done just that, yes. My kids have been through the ringer with illnesses picked up at preschool the last couple months, incurring several doctor visits. Wife had a female problem around the same time. Out of pocket cost to us? $0.

Quoting dxing (Reply 23):

Care to name a civilian branch of the government that has produced an effective solution that is working?

I was referring to effective solutions overseas. There is truly peace of mind in never wondering what treatment will cost, how it will be paid for, having to check to see if I'm allowed to see this or that doctor or whatever other crap is involved, much less disputing bills, arguing over what's covered and all that garbage. Keep It Simple Stupid.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 25):
Salaries therefore need to be set at a level that will cover those costs, just like in accounting, finance or law.

Nonsense. Stop inflating the education costs and that will stop. There is no reason those people need to be busting payrolls with salaries of $130K and up.

That's the other thing I like about the system here - the payscales are set by a formula according to the government's reimbursement rates for the treatment costs in each area of specialization. Even the best surgeons top out around $200K. Most RN and MD education is handled by a handful of the national universities and if you want to go, you can get a heavily subsidized education provided you can work hard enough to pass the exams. There are private schools one can get into if you can't pass the national exams and have parents who can pay your way.

Physicians get all kinds of ancillary benefits to make up for the lower pay like tax deferment, and banks will usually give them lower mortgage rates as thanks for service to society. Standardized salaries and the like are totally anathema in the US but most healthcare here is non-profit so it doesn't really matter. All it ensures is that most people who end up in the medical profession here do so because they really want it, not because they're chasing a lifestyle. Want to make more? Work in a big city hospital. Want better quality of life? Work in a smaller clinic or out in the inaka.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
As mentioned, he may have had some behind the scenes action that warranted the billing. Just call and ask. Question your bills. Don't pay them blindly. Don't let your insurance company pay them blindly. Understand what you're paying for.

Maybe retired or unemployed people have time for that crap, I sure don't. What a colossal waste of time. Why should that even be necessary? I would never have to do that over here unless there were a monumental stuff-up.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:16 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
I was referring to effective solutions overseas.

Which still does not change the fact that outside of the military our government rarely if ever operates efficiently, see the public debt.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
There is truly peace of mind in never wondering what treatment will cost

But there will be consternation and worry if you will be able to get treated. The President, in the debate, alreayd questioned the use of resources on someone of a defined age. At some point, using his words, your benefit to society outweighs your usefulness.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Keep It Simple Stupid.

See the United States tax code and then get back to me on that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):

Which still does not change the fact that outside of the military our government rarely if ever operates efficiently

Well I do believe that was my point.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
But there will be consternation and worry if you will be able to get treated.

Perhaps but that needn't be the case. Realistic expectations are the key to everything, whether a private relationship or the government to its citizens. Doctors in this country have adopted a reasonable set of treatment guidelines that the public has been made aware of. With rare exceptions, they will not aggressively treat stage IV cancer. This keeps costs down, but there are also good arguments that it preserves quality of life in folks who are already terminal. This frees up resources for other important functions like dialysis units and cardiac care units.

The resources for preventative care are quite impressive as well. The government subsidizes purchase of AEDs and most cities and towns have deployed them in massive numbers in public facilities, office buildings, train stations, and the like. I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen saved by one on train platforms or what not, and this is in a place that has 1/4 the heart disease the US has got.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Cadet985
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 32):

They're gonna kill you with bills. I remember when my mom fractured her ankle. Did you see a physical therapist afterwards?, because those bills won't stop coming in.

I still am. One of the benefits of being under 28 (and right now, the only reason I like Obama) is that my dad has me on his Medicare. I mean I shouldn't be complaining about the bills because of this, but I mean how many people that don't have insurance can't afford an ambulance or a hospital (or even an ER trip)?

A few years ago, Chris Rock starred in a movie called Head of State where due to the result of a bizarre set of circumstances, he is a DC Alderman who is running for President. In one of his campaign speeches, he goes into how expensive things are getting..."How many of you work in a hospital you can't afford to get sick in? that ain't right!..." Seems to me that Mr. Rock and the others who wrote that movie were just a couple years ahead of time.

But I am absolutely certain that if I had to pay these expenses out of pocket, I'd be filing for bankruptcy.

Marc
 
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fr8mech
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Maybe retired or unemployed people have time for that crap, I sure don't. What a colossal waste of time. Why should that even be necessary? I would never have to do that over here unless there were a monumental stuff-up.

Are you kidding me? I had surgery earlier this year and requested detailed billing from the hospital and the providers. There was a line on the anesthsioligist's bill that I didn't understand. I made one phone call and had the question answered.

Do you pay car repair bills blindly? Any other bills? Why are medical bills any different? They are different because hose of us with insurance, whether private or government provided, tend to not care what is on the bill. This is one of the reasons health care costs continue to increase.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away, or may not come at all.
It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person. ~B. Murray
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dxing
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:20 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 36):
Perhaps but that needn't be the case. Realistic expectations are the key to everything,

Rarely, if ever, do we get realistic expectations out of Washington D.C. nor do I expect we will any time soon. ACA was supposed to help those at the lower end of the pay scale, yet the first unintended consequence of the law was to take away what little insurance they had, forcing a number of companies to seek waivers from the very law that was supposed to help their entry level workers.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 36):
With rare exceptions, they will not aggressively treat stage IV cancer.

And that should not ever be the choice of the government. I can't think of a worse delegation of power than that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:23 pm

Quoting dxing (Reply 26):
And it pays less than the cost of the treatment, procedure, or test actually costs.

You are confusing actual costs with "market pricing".

If a test, medication or procedure costs, say, $50 the hospital will mark that up to cover both those who cannot pay and also insurance discounts. Take $100 as the market price. The insurance discount of 25% means that they pay $75. People without insurance are expected to pay $100 and Medicare will be paying the actual $50 cost.

When you look at "market price" there should be some focusing on for profit hospitals. The tradition non-profit hospital should be focused on care, not market prices.

Quoting dxing (Reply 26):
At below market prices which would lead to less availability, and rationing of treatments, tests, and procedures.

For profit hospitals can do what they want. Because non-profit hospitals enjoy special tax benefits there should be a decision for them to make. Take care of all patients or shift to a for-profit position and loose the tax breaks. Having their cake and eating it too will have a tough time in the future.

Same with tax funded research. Refusal to take care of Medicare and other government funded programs should be an immediate disqualifier for federal research grants. And should disqualify the facility from receiving any funds, directly or indirectly, for training medical students, interns and residents.

Quoting dxing (Reply 26):
Since medicare already does not pay the full price, we are already paying higher prices in the private market to subsidize medicare beyond what is taken in FICA taxes.

Medicare pays the cost - the $50 noted above - not the retail price.

And it has been a long standing tradition that medical providers receive government funding from a variety of sources - starting with tax payer support in the education of the providers, tax breaks and research funding.

Quoting dxing (Reply 26):
They see and thus voted the way they did in 2010.

And voted the way they did in 2006? And in 2008?

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 29):
To take me a distance of less then 4 miles, I was billed almost $1000.00.

That's pretty normal for an ambulance. I'm on a $4 something a month insurance added to my city utilities - no charge outside of that. Jumped at the opportunity as I believe that an ambulance should be a public service, just like police & fire.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 30):
They force you to shop for doctors and treatment.

If someone is in an accident and taken to a hospital in an ambulance on an emergency run what are the chances that they will be able to "shop" for a doctor?

Of if they get a Dx of acute leukemia - saw AML? A guy can be dead before getting through Googling all the available doctors. (One was admitted with a new AML Dx one afternoon when my wife was in the hospital and was dead the net morning.)

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
Stop inflating the education costs and that will stop.

We need to stop over inflating the costs of higher education for ALL courses.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):
There is no reason those people need to be busting payrolls with salaries of $130K and up.

The pay for medical providers outside of physicians should be around the same levels as other professions in order to keep good students going in medicine. People what cheap nurses without worrying about the quality of the applicants at nursing schools. Just like teachers.

And, let's face it. You can get a better quality of life for, say, $75,000 in Middle America than you can in New York or San Francisco. You have to balance all costs when looking at a providers compensation.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
Which still does not change the fact that outside of the military our government rarely if ever operates efficiently, see the public debt.

Which still does not change the fact that our private rarely if ever operates efficiently, see the loss of production jobs, the overcharging of employer nanny care, the financial crisis, the housing meltdown and the Great Recession.

Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
See the United States tax code and then get back to me on that.

We have the best Tax Code that money can (and did) buy.

See the GOP protecting the oil industry a month or so ago on their tax breaks as a good example.  
Quoting dxing (Reply 35):
The President, in the debate, alreayd questioned the use of resources on someone of a defined age. At some point, using his words, your benefit to society outweighs your usefulness.

There will always be ethics arguments, regardless of the system. Look at Cheney. The guy is deciding if he is going to get a heart transplant. He certainly has the cash to buy a heart, but should a good strong heart go to an old guy who is just living off all his cash? Or should it go to someone who might do more for the country in the future?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 36):
With rare exceptions, they will not aggressively treat stage IV cancer. This keeps costs down, but there are also good arguments that it preserves quality of life in folks who are already terminal.

There is no reason NOT to treat the terminally ill to preserve their quality of life, especially at the end stage.

In terms of treating Stage IV cancers, there is an argument to continue research, even that will not include all patients. That means there are ample arguments to fund that research.
 
AGM100
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:35 pm

Get better insurance .... I go and it costs me $25 bucks . Had my kid in for a softball injury last month ... XRAY , A ankle wrap and a script cost me 35 bucks . I have raised 3 kids ... I have allot of experience with this ... if you are paying huge bills like that its your own fault...

Its easier to complain ... and shrink back to ask for help I guess... with a few calls you can probably get insurance that would lower your costs. . The rest of us have a to figure it and make the right choices .... you want it free .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:28 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
Get better insurance ..

How many people in this country are on employer nanny care and really don't have a choice? How many have seen their buying power stagnant for years as your caddy plan has had prices go up (doubling in the Bush/Cheney years) and employer's contributions decline?

The middle class has been given the shaft for years while the top percent or two has had a field day. Telling people to "get better insurance" when it is not financially possible simply shows the need for universal core care.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:32 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):

The middle class has been given the shaft for years while the top percent or two has had a field day. Telling people to "get better insurance" when it is not financially possible simply shows the need for universal core care.

It also shows the blindness to reality that people who claim that the "free market" use.

But in this case, it's fraud. In the outpatient setting, if I walk in and say "Hi, how are you?" and get an answer then I've done one point of physical examination (general impression) and one point of history (how are you?)

That's a code 99212 level of billing. I know that we don't get $300+ for a 99212. More like $15.

So if someone is charging $300 for that, then it's billing fraud and it needs to be reported as such.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AGM100
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:54 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
The middle class has been given the shaft for years while the top percent or two has had a field day

Always comes back to the same old issue .... you dont know what the shaft is ... wait till there is no "top percent" . Then you will see what the shaft really is ... we are headed for the most Epic "Shaft" in the history of man kind . But just as long as the rich are finaly stripped ... that is the goal that is all that matters.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:56 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):

Always comes back to the same old issue .... you dont know what the shaft is ... wait till there is no "top percent" .

Please name one instant since money was invented that this has occurred in any civilization, including the USSR.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ken777
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
.... you dont know what the shaft is ... wait till there is no "top percent" . Then you will see what the shaft really is ... we are headed for the most Epic "Shaft" in the history of man kind .

Are you talking about the massive tax breaks to the top earners while the middle class stays stagnant?

Are you talking about the GOP ripping off Medicare in order to cut the top tax rate even more?

The GOP has been delivering "epic" shafts to the middle class (and lower) every time they get a chance. As long as they are lap dogs for big money they will continue to do so until it is only the middle class who pays taxes.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:44 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 38):
Do you pay car repair bills blindly? Any other bills? Why are medical bills any different?

I guess the system one uses really makes a difference.

Quoting dxing (Reply 39):
And that should not ever be the choice of the government. I can't think of a worse delegation of power than that.

It's perfectly logical to me. Unlike Washington where a bunch of politicians with no RW experience set the policy, they asked a panel of doctors what was best for cancer management, they came up with those recommendations, and Ministry of Health set the policy based on their advice. No harm done there.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
Always comes back to the same old issue .... you dont know what the shaft is ... wait till there is no "top percent" . Then you will see what the shaft really is ... we are headed for the most Epic "Shaft" in the history of man kind . But just as long as the rich are finaly stripped ... that is the goal that is all that matters.

What in the world are you talking about? Universal health in the form of a triple payer system has been in use in Japan since the late 1960s. It did not stop explosive economic growth and it has not stopped 12 Japanese individuals from joining the world's ranks of billionaires in the last decade. Rich people love the system here because they get the best of both worlds - they get the core care, and they can afford to have anything elective done above and beyond the core service.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 41):
The rest of us have a to figure it and make the right choices .... you want it free .

I don't want it free - just effective and simple to use. And that's exactly what they accomplished here. My employer pays some, I pay some, and the government pays some. Call and shop around? Give me a break, this isn't buying a frackin' air conditioner. After only two experiences with my former employer's cadillac plan in Hawaii, my wife delivered the following verdict: "your American system sucks".
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TheGov
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:44 am

RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:52 am

Believe it or not, I am glad to see this thread and the number of replies. I have been fuming over the recent hospital bill for my step-son.

The trip to the ER was necessary because he ran into a mailbox while riding his bike. His injury? A 1/4 inch cut right above his eyebrow. His mom insisted on going to the ER while I stated that only a butterfly bandage was necessary. Well mom won so he was off to the ER. What did he come back with? A small drop of glue to pull the cut back together instead of maybe one stitch. The cost? About $1,000. That's right. One drop of glue plus the Dr. to walk in to see him and apply said glue plus the room he sat in for about 45 minutes equals $1,000. The butterfly bandage? Probably about $1.50.

From here it is fights with the insurance company,etc. I hate the medical profession's billing procedures!
Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Outrageous Hospital/Doctor Bills!

Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
You are confusing actual costs with "market pricing".



Not at all. The government decides what they think the cost ought to be regardless of what the real world price is. That's why what they pay bears no resemblance to the actual cost.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
For profit hospitals can do what they want.



Not if the government takes over.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
Medicare pays the cost - the $50 noted above - not the retail price.



And as noted, medicare pays what they believe the cost to be. Wish I could do that at the grocery store and the gas station.

Quoting dxing (Reply 39):
And voted the way they did in 2006? And in 2008?



And as you have stated many a time, it's the last election that counts and where Congress is concerned that was 2010.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
Which still does not change the fact that our private rarely if ever operates efficiently



And when they don't they go out of business, unless government decides they are too big to fail or a union is involved, in which case the process gets subverted. If government operates inefficiently, they just print more money to cover their mistake.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 47):
It's perfectly logical to me



Then you are a subscriber to ex-Rep Grayson's "die quickly" philosophy. I can't think of a worse policy to follow unless your ultimate aim is to cheapen human life as much as you can.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!

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