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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:29 pm

That might be the biggest load of bullshit i've ever read.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
cargolex
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 47):
Don't even bother... it's no use. I've tried in different threads, trying to educate about what socialism really is, comparisons to other countries politics, aims of real socialism compared to Democratic party. It's pointless. He's quite comfortable in his state of ignorant bliss that you either agree with him or are a 'socialist'. Anything to the left of him is 'socialism'..

This, an he remains unable to write ... without ... heavy ... use ... of ... ellipsis.

Engaging him is pointless, because you can't have a discussion with unreality.
 
Ken777
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
doesn't sound like he wants to be my president .

Of course you won't consider him "your President".

He's a Democrat.

He has a funny name

And he's not white.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
The effort of Pitting communities and classes against each other ... pushing the imperialists around and creating "doubt in everything"... mass doubt and confusions uncertainty and chaos is the real path to "fundamental change".,, but it is done with delegates not guns.

Pitting the rich and super rich against the middle class and the poor> That's the GOP.

Cut Medicare and Medicaid so the tax rate for the rich (when they bother to pay taxes) is cut ANOTHER 30%.

And the FUD spewing out of the mouths of Republicans is beyond belief.

This is simply another pile of crap, just like the Birthers.
 
AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:54 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 46):
it just isn't Socialism.



Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ? We have seen open testimony from senior Democrats who state that clearly. They know they can not just SEIZE private industry so they must tax , regulate and burden it .

And I never said we ARE a "socialist nation" we are not. But we have a party who searches for ways to control the means of production , be it via labor unions , taxation or regulation. And by the way ... I enter RINOS as culprits as well including GWB .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
san747
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:00 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):

Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ?

No.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
We have seen open testimony from senior Democrats who state that clearly.

Source?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
They know they can not just SEIZE private industry so they must tax , regulate and burden it .

How is regulation bad? Want to see pure capitalism with no regulations? Somalia can tell you all about how great it is.

BTW, are you American? Then Obama is YOUR president. Period.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Newark727
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:02 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 44):
What is this thread even about?

Confused....

UAL

It is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:32 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):

Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ?

No. That notion is absurd.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Ken777
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:57 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ?

Get a clue. The Democrats went for the bailouts in the FInancial and Auto Sectors while the Republicans would have been happy to see them fail.

Democrats like profitable companies who hire a lot of people and pay their taxes. They also believe in protecting the Middle Class in America as that group is the driving force in the economy.
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 57):
Democrats like profitable companies who hire a lot of people and pay their taxes. They also believe in protecting the Middle Class in America as that group is the driving force in the economy.

I don't normally do this, but:   
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:11 am

Quoting Homsar (Reply 58):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 57):Democrats like profitable companies who hire a lot of people and pay their taxes. They also believe in protecting the Middle Class in America as that group is the driving force in the economy.I don't normally do this, but:

I do, and I will add mine also      
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:40 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 57):
Get a clue. The Democrats went for the bailouts in the Financial and Auto Sectors while the Republicans would have been happy to see them fail.



In some ways you are correct .... they should have failed. GM investing with GMAC into sub prime bundles , GM failing to cover the legacy costs , GM failing to run a efficient company that can compete . Yes ... they deserved a serious haircut . But that was not what the bailout was about ... it was about the UAW and most of all cutting the bond holders out. The Financial bailouts ? Well some say that was a good way to assure political compliance for the new big regulation package ... I mean how can the banks and wall street say no when they just got "bailed out"?.

Most of it was the poison pill of the ever so important ... Housing Assistance programs and the FM's. I gotta hand it to em ... it really was a good plan and it worked. Convenient ,the word "sub prime" comes out 8 months out of a election ...

If nothing else it is just another way of looking at it .... I am sure its wrong and crazy though.
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cws818
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:54 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Americas largest Marxist organization has a new national director... Maria Svart . Now that may seem inconsequential to most .. except that this young lady was also a 7 year director at SEIU.

Batten down the hatches, the Republic is about to collapse

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
President Obama is a solid Marxist / socialist

...so you say....

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Have you actually read "The Communist Manifesto" in it's entirety?

Or even in part?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
I'm not making any other arguments here, but if you are going to use terms, at least use them appropriately



Their are no other arguments ... it is very clear

If only to you...

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 22):
But every time I hear "more investment" the "rich need to pay more". It sure does not sound like capitalism to me

Well, President Clinton also supported "investment." I'm pretty sure that we had a capitalist economy during the Clinton administration....

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
The DNC is basically the Socialist Party USA now....

So you say...

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ?

Not really.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
We have seen open testimony from senior Democrats who state that clearly.

                             

Who? Which ones?
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seb146
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:57 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
He runs America without us republicans remember ? He took the keys from us remember ?

Ummm... What are you talking about? Right-wingers are the ones who keep walking out on compromises. I don't see how cutting spending will get us anywhere without raising some kind of revenue. I guess if the middle class keep getting taxed, everything will be fine?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
cws818
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:00 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
Oh ... I am just sitting in the back of the car like he told me too.

You know what they say about backseat drivers...

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 48):
doesn't sound like he wants to be my president .

Well, he IS YOUR president. Since he ran for the office, I assume that he is happy to hold it. It sounds like you are the one who doesn't like the current political reality.
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Klaus
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:32 am

Democracy is when you've undoubtedly lost an election and you still stand by the legitimacy of the result, including the elected officials.

If you're not willing to accept the democratic principles at the heart of the USA, what country are you actually standing behind, then?

I've never voted for chancellor Merkel's party, nor for foreign minister Westerwelle's party and likely never will in either case, but they are the legitimate representatives of my country in their respective offices and it is my civic duty to accept the legitimacy of the properly conducted election.

I was absolutely horrified at Bush junior having been elected twice, but even after the 2000 debacle the question of the practical legitimacy of his office was settled for me when he was inaugurated.

Growing up means being able to deal with unwelcome realities, among other things.

Making up bizarre horror stories with the only intent to find excuses why I wouldn't have to acknowledge a democratic election result just for it not having gone in my favour would be petty, childish and above all undemocratic.

This kind of approach reeks of advance exculpation for would-be assassins. One cannot at the same time slander top representatives as evil incarnate and then feign surprise if some sick person should take this kind of propaganda to heart by attempting to assassinate the respective politicians.

De-humanizing and de-legitimizing of people in office comes with very real and sometimes fatal risks.

One cannot pretend to be blind to these inherent consequences.
 
Doona
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:06 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 60):
Convenient ,the word "sub prime" comes out 8 months out of a election ...

Yes, the DCCC brought about the mortgage crisis. There's a firm grasp on a situation rooted in fact and, erm, sanity, if I ever saw one.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:14 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ?


Others have answered, but since you seem to be asking me,... No, I've seen nothing whatsoever that suggests that is true. I am unaware, for instance, of any attempt by Democrats in Congress to advance legislation that would seek to nationalize any industrial or service enterprise. Do you know of any such attempt?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
We have seen open testimony from senior Democrats who state that clearly.


Really? I must have missed that. I don't recall any such statements. Care to provide us with a source for that assertion? Since it was "open testimony" it must be in the Congressional Record or some other public document, right?

Lets see if we can move this from baseless and wild allegation into the realm of facts and evidence.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
StarAC17
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:49 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 45):
China is a communist regime in name only. The fact that China has a 3 class system totally proves that.

Yes, China is essentially a capitalist country the only thing that makes China in anyway communist

Quoting TheCol (Reply 45):
The Vancouver riot did enough damage to our street cred. We don't need to make it worse by running our mouths.

I really don't think it did, people I talked to in Melbourne thought it was kind of funny actually. If that did destroy our street cred then I would hate to think what soccer hooligans have done to England's.

The lesson to be learned here is do not have political summits in Vancouver.

Quoting cws818 (Reply 61):
Well, President Clinton also supported "investment." I'm pretty sure that we had a capitalist economy during the Clinton administration....

So did St. Reagan who raised taxes 6 times during his 8 years in office and he was a Republican.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
vinniewinnie
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:34 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 53):
Let me ask you ... don't you think that the Democrats would love to own the " means of production" ? We have seen open testimony from senior Democrats who state that clearly. They know they can not just SEIZE private industry so they must tax , regulate and burden it .

You really don't get it. What the Democratic party stands for is fairness. Fairness because not everyone is equal in society, fairness because you as an individual cannot do much against a corporation earning billions of dollars, fairness because nature cannot defend itself, fairness because no-one chooses to get cancer, still they get it and it is usually not the persons fault.

Now what some right wingers don't understand if that we'r not in the 18th century anymore: America is now a developed nation, where people live in society. Sometimes the greater good has to prevail, and usually only government can enforce it. Do you think any public transportation systems would have existed in your vision of society? What would stop a polluting factory to establish itself close to a school where kids play? There are things where state government does better, some that should be left to federal government. Stopping ATT & T-mobile from merging is regulation, but do you think it is nationilisation? I don't think so. What if at the end there were only 2 companies, Verizon and T-mobile. Do you think you as a consumer would win? That's why there is a need for federal regulation.

Regulation private industries has nothing to do with socialism. Nor does it lead to controlling the means of production. It just attempts to correct market imperfection, and is being used all over the world including not so socialist Great Britain.

Economics 101 as well...
 
474218
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:17 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 27):
Jesse Helms was once a member of the KKK. Jesse Helms was also a Republican when he died. Therefore, all Republicans are racist. Kinda sounds like the same argument. But, I guess anything to get a Democrat out of the White House.


You have a "proof" to back up you statement that Jesse Helms was a member of the KKK?

I know he was a Democrat early in he in his political life but could not find any relationship with the KKK.

I think you may have him confused with Robert Byrd the life long Democrat and KKK member!
 
BAKJet
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:49 am

Obama has relationships with the SEIU and the AFL-CIO, neither of which are Socialist or Marxist organizations. Sorry, but I fail to see how this lady having relationships with the Democratic Socialists Of America and the SEIU serves as indisputable proof that Obama is a socialist and a marxist.
 
cws818
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:11 am

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 68):
You really don't get it

You are correct, he does not.

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 68):
You really don't get it. What the Democratic party stands for is fairness.

He doesn't get that, either. But then again, he cant, if he did, his entire world view would implode
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
cws818
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:21 am

I'm not sure whether the OP's silence is telling or comical.
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san747
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:48 am

Quoting cws818 (Reply 72):
I'm not sure whether the OP's silence is telling or comical.

Don't worry, he'll be back with some new conspiratorial argument. Either that, or he took my advice from earlier in the thread and found a hobby (aviation photography perhaps?  ) so that his mind wouldn't always be fixated on the (apparently) many many ways the world (and the government) are out to get him.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
cws818
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:55 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 73):

Quoting cws818 (Reply 72):
I'm not sure whether the OP's silence is telling or comical.

Don't worry, he'll be back with some new conspiratorial argument. Either that, or he took my advice from earlier in the thread and found a hobby (aviation photography perhaps?  ) so that his mind wouldn't always be fixated on the (apparently) many many ways the world (and the government) are out to get him.

HA! Call me an incurable optimist, but perhaps the OP has been - shudder - READING!
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AGM100
Topic Author
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:51 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 64):
Growing up means being able to deal with unwelcome realities, among other things.



I agree with this .... the reality of 60-70% Income tax and mandates , the reality of tax and deficit spending. I will survive (I think) but I know people who's business wont . Small businesses who clear the 250K to 300k Revenue line who will be done for. It is going to be interesting this new reality .... and allot of it is unnecessary . Allot of it is brought on by pandering leftists democrats and RINOS who buy votes from our weakest ,non imaginative , non creative non courageous citizens . Empowering from the bottom up .... that is Karl Marx grandest design.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 66):
Really? I must have missed that. I don't recall any such statements. Care to provide us with a source for that assertion? Since it was "open testimony" it must be in the Congressional Record or some other public document, right?



Sorry , I cant get myself to look at videos of Maxine Waters , Nancy Pelosi ,Dick Durbin and Conyers .... but you can . (All members of the DSOA by the way) .

Quoting cws818 (Reply 74):
HA! Call me an incurable optimist, but perhaps the OP has been - shudder - READING!



If you don't understand that Obama is a solid leftist then it is you who need to read . His solutions are all based on empowering central control , bureaucracies and agencies to rule over us and he clearly states it. I give the President allot of credit he is not wavering from his ingrained idea's.... his speech last week showed that perfectly.

He is a idealistic left wing community organizer .. (revolutionary) who believes the teachings of Rev. Wright and the "audacity of hope". The audacity to coerce "rich" people into handing it over to who they believe deserve it and of course will reward them with power.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cargolex
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting cws818 (Reply 74):

HA! Call me an incurable optimist, but perhaps the OP has been - shudder - READING!

I guess we know the answer now, since it seems like the OP has learned absolutely nothing from the entire thread except how to further articulate his delusions.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 76):
guess we know the answer now, since it seems like the OP has learned absolutely nothing from the entire thread except how to further articulate his delusions.

It's hot outside. Tin Foil hats tend to cook the brain a bit at these temps.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 76):
I guess we know the answer now, since it seems like the OP has learned absolutely nothing from the entire thread except how to further articulate his delusions.



   ... This is the only answer the lefties have . Cant defend "hope-anomics" .... cant defend your parties policies .. so we just call them delusional.

Hey ..Bill Ayers .. called capitalists "delusional " as well ... read "Teaching the Political and Personal ... Essays of hope and Justice" delusional policies of the capitalists. Alinsky touted a primary tactic for the revolutionaries .... Clean up , use main stream language and force our opponents to seem delusional and non mainstream.

Sheesh ... its too easy.,
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cargolex
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 78):
This is the only answer the lefties have . Cant defend "hope-anomics" .... cant defend your parties policies .. so we just call them delusional.

If your points were even close to factual in nature, we could debate, but they're not. You're describing things - over and over again - that don't exist. The democrats are not socialists, Barack Obama is not a socialist, and virtually everything you've said in this thread has no basis in fact at all.

As I said before, it's impossible to discuss anything with unreality. You can believe these things, you're free to believe them. You can also believe in Unicorns. That doesn't make them real. And when you repeatedly say things which are as outlandish and untrue as what you've said in this thread, you open yourself up to ridicule.

[Edited 2011-07-05 10:28:33]
 
AGM100
Topic Author
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:01 pm

quote=CargoLex,reply=79]And when you repeatedly say things which are as outlandish and untrue as what you've said in this thread, you open yourself up to ridicule.[/quote]

Another Alinskyism deployed .... despite clear facts ,the Presidents own words and history ... just keep calling them crazy , outlandish and radical . We the radicals ...must turn the arguement " upside down on them" -Saul Alinsky.

Hey its fun with Saul day !
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cargolex
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:08 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 80):
Another Alinskyism deployed .... despite clear facts ,the Presidents own words and history ... just keep calling them crazy , outlandish and radical . We the radicals ...must turn the arguement " upside down on them" -Saul Alinsky.

It is interesting that you keep bringing up people like Saul Alinsky - and yet have no understanding whatsoever of what socialism is, or its history, or the history of political organizing. It makes me wonder where exactly you heard about Saul Alinsky. You've been given reading recommendations. Take them. Please. You might even like some of them!

In addition, if you can, please try to type in complete sentences. You want your arguments to be taken seriously, write them seriously.

[Edited 2011-07-05 11:12:42]
 
san747
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:02 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 80):

Another Alinskyism deployed .... despite clear facts ,the Presidents own words and history ... just keep calling them crazy , outlandish and radical . We the radicals ...must turn the arguement " upside down on them" -Saul Alinsky.

Guys, he's clearly trolling here at this point. He's not going to learn anything or attempt a reasonable debate and take our viewpoints seriously. He's gotten to the point where he thinks we have no response to his "impenetrable" arguments and we have to resort to ad hominem attacks, which means to him, he won.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Klaus
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:30 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
I agree with this

You have read the rest of my post as well, haven't you?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
If you don't understand that Obama is a solid leftist

...then you probably actually know what the word really means.
 
AGM100
Topic Author
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 81):
and yet have no understanding whatsoever of what socialism is, or its history



"The Failed policies of the past " A Obama favourite teleprompter line. Which policies would he be referring too ? Low taxes and free market capitalist ideas ? Or big government spending programs and central control of the economy ..?

Socialism is a broad term .... but the results of all the many angles of it are the same. "Eventually you run out of other peoples money" . It is hard in some ways to pin Obama and the democrats down to one particular flavor of socialism , Marxism , trotskyism , communism or whatever. Right now they have plenty of money to spend , so they are just gangsters setting up deals for their big corporate donors and union supporters . But soon enough the mask will come off and the pointy rifles will come out.

You do not have to be a political science PHD holder to understand socialism. The Democrats and RINOS most certainly represent Socialism in the US, if it was not for political hedging they would go all the way and drop the progressive act.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3I-PVVowFY&feature=related
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Klaus
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:11 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
"The Failed policies of the past " A Obama favourite teleprompter line. Which policies would he be referring too ?

Uncontrolled deficit spending and at the same time a near-religious aversion to even considering tax increases.

The Iraq and Afghanistan wars have been paid for entirely on credit – they've never been properly budgeted by the Bush administration for apparently political reasons, while at the same time completely crazily rolling out special tax breaks for the wealthy.

Completely Irresponsible and outright reckless are the mildest qualifications one could possibly apply there.

It is perfectly obvious that fiscal discipline, but also sufficient tax revenue will be necessary components of a solid recovery. At some point reality sets in, and it takes grownups to take the necessary steps, regardless of adolescent ideologies.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
You do not have to be a political science PHD holder to understand socialism. The Democrats and RINOS most certainly represent Socialism in the US, if it was not for political hedging they would go all the way and drop the progressive act.

Actually, it is almost necessary to have no solid education on politics whatsoever in order to come to your conclusions.
 
mt99
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:12 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
A Obama favourite teleprompter line. Which policies would he be referring too ? Low taxes and free market capitalist ideas ? Or big government spending programs and central control of the economy ..?

Or the war in Iraq, the sub-prime mess.. i mean it boils down to what you define by what is covered under the term "policy"...

You have chosen to make it mean "Low taxes and free market capitalist ideas".. that is your prerogative and not necessarily true
Step into my office, baby
 
AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 85):
Uncontrolled deficit spending and at the same time a near-religious aversion to even considering tax increases.



We agree ... spending is the problem . Taxes to those in power means revenue for programs and more power . Taxes to the producers , are seen as intrusive control and a impediment to growth and prosperity. The same argument the colonists had against the crown ; it is know different now with the exception of sovereignty at that time..

No producer that I know does not see the need for some taxation to uphold the safety and security of the society . But where our government has lead us too via the great society and social engineering is certainly dangerous to individual freedom.

You can call it anything you want ... but it is clear to me. More spending and more taxation leads to a authoritarian central government in the end.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 86):
Or the war in Iraq, the sub-prime mess.. i mean it boils down to what you define by what is covered under the term "policy"...



Those are debatable policies . Sub prime can be directly tied back to the ill planned home ownership programs of the Fed . The war in Iraq was a policy approved by both sides of our government and done under the act of national security. In a capitalist nation the need to attack enemies and provide security for allies and interests is not out of the question . Protection of national economic interests is part of security ..security our federal government is obligated to provide .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:49 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
I agree with this .... the reality of 60-70% Income tax and mandates , the reality of tax and deficit spending. I will survive (I think) but I know people who's business wont .

Eliminating the Bush II Tax Cuts for those over $250K will not drive you into the 69-70% bracket. It will keep you at a lower level than those at the top of the SS tax range.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
Small businesses who clear the 250K to 300k Revenue line who will be done for.

When I had my small company I paid taxes on profit, not revenues. The small company owner who nets $250 - $300 before taxed will be as able to pay as a salaried person in that range.

And the taxes paid are based on income after all deductions & exemptions & credits. And you pay the tax at each bracket as you go through that bracket. The income between $16,750 and $68,000 is taxed at 15% - and you pay the 15% as you go through that bracket on your way to where ever you end. If you make half a million taxable then you pay 15% on that $71,250 in the 15% bracket. You also get the first $16,750 tax free.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
I cant get myself to look at videos of Maxine Waters , Nancy Pelosi ,Dick Durbin and Conyers .... but you can .

If they bother you I can only guess how you feel when Obama comes on the TV.  

Most politicians don't bother me too much. "Botox McConnell" is irritating, but he's only spouting what he is paid to spout. Boehner, I believe, would be a good Speaker if the Tea Party wasn't trying to run his position. I believe Cantor is going to join with McConnell to be the road block to a solution to our budget situation. Boehner will end up as a figure head, unable to do what is right for the country and, in time, Cantor will push him out.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
If you don't understand that Obama is a solid leftist then it is you who need to read .

Anyone who doesn't agree with the hard right and the Koch Brothers is a solid leftist in the minds of the right. It seems that it is no longer relevant that we are Americans - that standard was lost a long time ago for the Right.

So let me try to clarify it. We the People need to be Americans before we are Republican or Democrat or Independent, right or left or moderate. The Birthers tried to pass the notion that our President is not an American. He's black and has a "funny name" and can't be a real American. that didn't work so now the hard right is trying to make him out to be a socialist, communists or what ever.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 75):
His solutions are all based on empowering central control , bureaucracies and agencies to rule over us and he clearly states it.

So the Left 'rules over us' and the Right "governs" Sure, that is easy to believe.   

In terms of government focus, I trust the Federal Government far more than I trust the State governments. I also believe in equal protection under the law for all citizens, regardless of the state they happen to live in. That puts the Federal Government above the states in terms of ensuring the maintenance of those protections.

And I believe that the Federal Government does some things better than having 50 state agencies trying to re-invent the wheel. Health care, especially Medicaid, is a prime example.
 
AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 88):
will not drive you into the 69-70% bracket



With new democrat programs to "spur the economy" and payoff voters ... my kids will be paying that . My business right now is not the issue but but my son and daughters will be paying for the DNC dream years from now. Like your vaunted Obama care ..it will drive soaring deficits forever . We can not afford it ... but that does not matter because it is the leftist hinge pin and they do not care about debt.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 88):
He's black and has a "funny name" and can't be a real American. that didn't work so now the hard right is trying to make him out to be a socialist, communists or what ever.



No ... he believes Federal "investment" spurs the economy . He believes taking from one group who is "greedy and selfish" to hand to another is good policy. He believes the central government is the only answer for , educating our kids , healing our illness , growing the polar ice pack, and deterring us from making bad choices .

He attacks states rights and looks to circumvent congress by placating authority and bypassing them. He is a central planner ,relying on Czars, Agencies, union power and support from organizations that drain the public trust to drive policy. But even worse IMO he operates with a tinge of vengeful black liberation ideology which see's wealth distribution as a moral duty , as well as revenge on rich white people . "Republicans holding a gun to the head of the American people" ?? Really ? .

Don't get the wrong impression he is not that intelligent and despite a machine behind him of union bosses , leftist professors , GE , Goldman Sachs , Google , Twitter, Face book, Media Matters ,CBS ,ABC, NBC , CNN , PBS ,The Clinton's , and every leftist revolutionary on the planet... he is in political trouble.

My final word on the President is this ... Thank God for him , America needed a lesson in leftist leadership. The people have a clear choice now and I am happy about that . If he is reelected ...then we will know the future .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
and every leftist revolutionary on the planet...

You are, quite frankly, a loon. Considering that he's not a socialist, a marxist, nor indeed to the left at all in global terms, there's not a single "leftist revolutionary" on the planet that would support Barack Obama as a leader. Not a single one.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 929
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 pm

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Bill-O is an aviation lover?
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
but my son and daughters will be paying for the DNC dream years from now.

And you think the Trillions they will be paying for the totally unnecessary invasion of Iraq will be paid by someone else.

The last veteran from WW I has just died. If you had a child or grandchild born today they would be close to retirement (or in retirement) before we finish paying the last Iraq Veteran his lifelong benefits. Unless, of course, the GOP rips the vets off like they are happy to rip off the elderly.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
Like your vaunted Obama care ..it will drive soaring deficits forever .

Anyone who has lived in an Australian type health care system can understand the benefits - and know that Obama is just the first step.

It isn't going to take that long before employers totally toss out the nanny care they provide and then we can get busy cleaning up our overpriced mess.

As far as Medicare and the deficit goes - increase funding for Medicare. Might scare you, but if you look at the increases in premiums in private insurance it is not hard to understand all types of health spending need increases because of inflation. Not as large and increase as private companies, obviously, because Medicare is far more effective in handling the task of funding medical care.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
No ... he believes Federal "investment" spurs the economy .

Pull out ALL government spending and watch how the economy goes. Shutting down the tanker program for the USAF impacts Boeing and all their suppliers. Bridges and roads brings employment for those working on the infrastructure itself, as well as those supplying them and supporting them. We cut back on infrastructure spending and we increase unemployment.

Maybe you like the cuts NASA is getting hit with. More jobs lost as we go backwards - and the rest of the world happily sail past us. Proud about those cuts in spending? I'm not, but the rich need another tax cut.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
With new democrat programs to "spur the economy" and payoff voters ..

The GOP socialist $1,000 handout per child PER YEAR is the greatest payoff we have seen in my lifetime. It made no sense outside of the vote purchase.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 84):
"The Failed policies of the past "

Like:

The WMDs in Iraq that, after the invasion, were NOT there.
The lack of oversight leading to the housing crisis.
The lack of oversight leading to the financial crisis
The Great Recession
The need for bailouts in order to avoid a genuine depression.
The tax cuts of the Bush Years that cater to the rich and help build the nation's debt.

That's a start

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
Don't get the wrong impression he is not that intelligent

After W being the best the GOP had to put up it's really queer to hit on Obama's intelligence.

And then, of course, there is Sarah Palin.         

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
But even worse IMO he operates with a tinge of vengeful black liberation ideology which see's wealth distribution as a moral duty

What about a tinge of white social responsibility? His mother was white, you know. As far as wealth redistribution, our current system is transferring the wealth to the most wealthy and the middle class is shrinking. That is where you should be afraid for your kids.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
America needed a lesson in leftist leadership.

That was after we got one of the most brutal lessons in incompetence from the previous administration. As well as how to increase the handouts to the rich while shafting the middle class. And how to spin down into a Great Recession.

The leadership on the right has been great for the rich and large companies, but not for America or Americans.
 
AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 90):
not a single "leftist revolutionary" on the planet that would support Barack Obama as a leader. Not a single one



Well come on down to AZ .... and join in a immigration protest with La Raza ,De Humanos , SEIU , UFW , AFL/CIO. They are certainly revolutionaries of the Che/Ortega variety and they support Obama. So give me a point.. I found one .

Actually I was pretty amazed to see the AFL/CIO/ SEIU signs in Wisconsin a few months back ... the clenched fist of the revolt ... but I am sure they just needed a cool looking fist for their little signs.

http://www.icademyglobe.org/article.php?id=696
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
cargolex
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:56 pm

Still going, huh?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 89):
But even worse IMO he operates with a tinge of vengeful black liberation ideology which see's wealth distribution as a moral duty , as well as revenge on rich white people .

And...out comes the racism.

Quoting Doona (Reply 90):
You are, quite frankly, a loon. Considering that he's not a socialist, a marxist, nor indeed to the left at all in global terms, there's not a single "leftist revolutionary" on the planet that would support Barack Obama as a leader. Not a single one.

Quite.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
They are certainly revolutionaries of the Che/Ortega variety and they support Obama.

Yeah...no, that's wrong too. I'm loathe to get into it, but it isn't "revolutionary" to want to walk the street without fear of being asked to present your papers. But good for you, endorsing the East Germany law.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Well come on down to AZ .... and join in a immigration protest with La Raza ,De Humanos , SEIU , UFW , AFL/CIO. They are certainly revolutionaries of the Che/Ortega variety and they support Obama. So give me a point.. I found one

Does disagreeing with you automatically qualify one as a socialist revolutionary? You're off your rocker here. Is UNICEF and the National Federation of Snowglobe Owners involved too?

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 90):
You are, quite frankly, a loon. Considering that he's not a socialist, a marxist, nor indeed to the left at all in global terms, there's not a single "leftist revolutionary" on the planet that would support Barack Obama as a leader. Not a single one.

To be fair, sure they would, if the only alternative was the the Republican. And that has more to do with our electoral system than anything else.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:23 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:59 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 93):
Well come on down to AZ .... and join in a immigration protest with La Raza ,De Humanos , SEIU , UFW , AFL/CIO. They are certainly revolutionaries of the Che/Ortega variety and they support Obama. So give me a point.. I found one .

Actually I was pretty amazed to see the AFL/CIO/ SEIU signs in Wisconsin a few months back ... the clenched fist of the revolt ... but I am sure they just needed a cool looking fist for their little signs.

What has immigration reform (An issue where neither the left or the right agree on between themselves) have to do with this debate?

U'r doing exactly what I hate about the media and politicians in country: Take short cuts to back your argument or taking facts out of context. This makes your argument totally untrue and you must know that yourself.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10149
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:37 pm

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 97):
What has immigration reform (An issue where neither the left or the right agree on between themselves) have to do with this debate?

Immigration is one of those tired, old political talking points, like abortion. Gets people riled up so they will vote and then nothing is really accomplished.

Of course, the immigrants in question are not WASPs so there is anger when immigration is discussed. Bit queer as immigration has been one of the foundations of our economy for centuries.
 
AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:08 pm

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 97):
This makes your argument totally untrue and you must know that yourself.



Because the protesters we faced on May day 2010 ... were Sandinista , communists and were represented by local Democrats like Raul Grijalva ? The lovely Isabelle Garcia even showed up , but I missed her. People carrying flags of the communists and screaming about capitalists and imperialists tea baggers. I would guess every one of them will vote Democrat if they vote.

Quoting Doona (Reply 95):
Does disagreeing with you automatically qualify one as a socialist revolutionary?



Now your catching on ! ... 

Not that simple ... the CPUSA ... is 100% behind the DNC's immigration platform (Dream Act) and taxation policy . If it was not for that pesky election in 2012 ... the DNC and Obama would be lock step with the CPUSA, DSOA and have passed it already. But hey maybe I am just drawing the wrong conclusions . Wealth Distribution and destruction of free market capitalism... That's your Democratic party and that's the CPUSA and DSOA.

http://www.cpusa.org/communist-party...ights-is-a-struggle-for-democracy/
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !

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