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AGM100
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Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:42 pm

Americas largest Marxist organization has a new national director... Maria Svart . Now that may seem inconsequential to most .. except that this young lady was also a 7 year director at SEIU. The link is not one of tin hat ideas ... President Obama is a solid Marxist / socialist and fights for the ideas of SEIU and the DSOA. SEIU and DSOA are linked at the hip and are one in the same . DSOA lays the policy ideas and SEIU bring the muscle .... with its 15 million union members ready to strike and fight. The AFL/CIO is also heavily represented within the DSOA and are also huge supporters of the President ..

Next time I call Obama a Marxist / Socialist ... please use this as a reference before you dismiss me.

http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

Obama makes his credentials known pandering to SEIU for votes ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1NJaCtIkM

The Connection between Obama and SEIU are as solid as concrete and steel ....

Andy Stern ... President of SEIU .. freind of Bill Ayres / Dorn and Obama's senior advisor on healthcare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzG0xpkjWrA

So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists . And that is fine with me ...if you choose that idea then good for you and you should fight for it. I am just tired of the cloaking and hiding the true identity .
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Confuscius
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:54 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
.. Marxists Socialists

Hey it's working in China.   

"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov


Workers of the world unite!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4N_07o0PJU
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NIKV69
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:01 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Next time I call Obama a Marxist / Socialist ...

I don't need those. This works just fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoqI5PSRcXM&feature=related
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UAL747
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:12 pm

Have you actually read "The Communist Manifesto" in it's entirety? I have and Obama is not a Marxist. Socialism is nothing like Marxist Communism. Get a clue before you post something like that. Even China is not Marxist. Or are we just redefining words again like we did with "elitism?" Obama is not a Socialist either, and plenty of initiatives that Republicans vote for are socialist in nature. The United States has not been a purely capitalist society in a long time, at least in the past 100 years.

I'm not making any other arguments here, but if you are going to use terms, at least use them appropriately.

UAL
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AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:13 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
Hey it's working in China.



Well ... have you been their ? That is a mighty big "middle class" to appease ... a middle class that with the rhetoric of SEIU/DSOA would revolt and the wheels would come off that place in a second. China ... is moving the other direction and it will have too or it will be torn apart .

Again I say ... Socialism is a valid political set of Ideas , I just want it out of the shadows in America so that the people can choose . Our President is a Marxist / Socialist ... but enough of the press covering it up already.. lets be clear about it.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov



Well ..that is true , but having socialist within our government setting policy for us over the past years is the main threat. (Mainly Democrat big government spending programs ... not some fictional rope are to blame).
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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2707200X
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Another day another FoxNation style hit job from the right wing. Slow day ehh!

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Next time I call Obama a Marxist / Socialist ... please use this as a reference before you dismiss me.

You where not dismissed already? School ended a long time ago.   



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists . And that is fine with me ...if you choose that idea then good for you and you should fight for it. I am just tired of the cloaking and hiding the true identity .

Don't get me started on the GOP and their hatred of everything, on yeah thats a generalization sorry, most are, err a lot are haters, misogynist, racist, voter suppressionist and empty headed, but that is an assumption from where I have seen it not a fact.   

OBAMA 2012, make em mad!

[Edited 2011-06-28 11:21:01]

[Edited 2011-06-28 11:35:11]
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mt99
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Is this what the "Birthers" are up to now-a-days?
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AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:22 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
I'm not making any other arguments here, but if you are going to use terms, at least use them appropriately



Their are no other arguments ... it is very clear . Of course their is no pure ideology that contains every point of the communists manifesto but the end result will be the same . And the ideas of wealth distribution and a powerful central control body are parallel.

All I want is clarity ... define what you are and fight for it. I am a free market capitalist ... and not afraid to say it .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Newark727
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:28 pm

Frankly I've been a little disappointed in President Obama's lack of socialism, actually.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:29 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Socialism is nothing like Marxist Communism. Get a clue before you post something like that. Even China is not Marxist. Or are we just redefining words again like we did with "elitism?" Obama is not a Socialist either, and plenty of initiatives that Republicans vote for are socialist in nature. The United States has not been a purely capitalist society in a long time, at least in the past 100 years.

Very true, but the term is very relative and anything along the lines of punishing the wealthy to give to the poor in this country will be considered socialism even though it's not to the degree of China. It could begin to approach Sweden and Belgium if not stopped.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
Arrow
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:35 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists .

You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):


It could begin to approach Sweden and Belgium if not stopped.

I don't ever see you getting that good; you're moving in the opposite direction.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists . And that is fine with me ...if you choose that idea then good for you and you should fight for it. I am just tired of the cloaking and hiding the true identity .

Obviously a factually incorrect statement, and therefor must be construed as a flamebait post. I have suggested thread deletion.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Tugger
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:48 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 7):
All I want is clarity ... define what you are and fight for it. I am a free market capitalist ... and not afraid to say it .

Actually you are not. You have stated many times that you believe in controls on markets and even regulations. Among other things, you support the requirement that business verify citizenship prior to hiring. And you support continuing support for service men and women beyond their service and requirements that businesses protect their jobs if they are called to serve.

So you believe that some people do deserve extra protection and consideration for who they are and what situation they are in. And you do not believe that businesses should be allowed to hire anyone they choose. That is not free market capitalism.

Tugg
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NIKV69
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:51 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):
I don't ever see you getting that good; you're moving in the opposite direction.

Thankfully so. 60% taxes is not my idea of "good"
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:57 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists

Whew! *closes window* Glad I bought an air conditioner to combat the hot air. *goes back to reading his Communism for Dummies book and eats another spoonful of Patriot Flakes*
 
AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:59 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
It could begin to approach Sweden and Belgium if not stopped.



The only reason we have not gone full blown " Socialism" is because we still have allot of capitalists and anti socialists free marketers in the US. It is incremental ... progressive if you will . Programs on top of programs ...spending on top of spending slowing sinking us into a place where the only solution is central control of the economy.

Now .. President Obama also has ties to the sharper end of the socialists Marxist ideologues... the ones who want to take it by force , by riot and at the point of a gun. He needs to keep them in check ... but we will see them soon.
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PanHAM
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:03 pm

Obama is not even a Social Democrat by European standards, far from being a Democratic Socialist. On the European scale he would be a Christian Democrat which is on (or used to be until Mrs. Merkel destroyed that party) the liberal democratic right, Or center to right, whatever.

But even then, no Cristian Democratic head of state / government could politically afford to run Guantanamo, send 200 drones to attack terrorists in Pakistan, liquidate OBL and, and , and. I congratulate you guys in America on the fine President you have, may be he is stuck with some of the problems, certainly with gitmo. But calling him a Socialist is way off.
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mbmbos
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
President Obama is a solid Marxist / socialist . . .

Actions speak louder than words and Obama is certainly no socialist. He's not even a liberal based on the actions he's taken since he started his term.

But words like "Marxism" and "Socialism" are charged with all sorts of negative connotations for many. So they become a meme of the far right media, used over and again to strike fear in the hearts of the most ignorant Americans.
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mt99
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:22 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
But calling him a Socialist is way off.

The also called him a Kenyan...
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racko
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:25 pm

Socialism is a political system in which the state controls all means of production.

All countries of what is nowadays commonly understood as the "West" (EU, NA, Australia, Israel etc.) are social market economies, capitalistic systems with regulation, oversight, a social safety net and a few key institutions controlled by the government (for example defense, law enforcement, emergency services, infrastructure, often the postal service).
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:27 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists .

You really, really, don't get it..
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11Bravo
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:41 pm

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 18):
.... to strike fear in the hearts of the most ignorant Americans.

Apparently with significant success; witness this thread. I work with a few folks like that; people with poor education and limited life experience who rely on geniuses like Limbaugh, Beck, and Hannity to explain the finer points of politics, history, and economics.
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AGM100
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 21):
You really, really, don't get it..



Probably right .... and I would gladly be wrong about this . But every time I hear "more investment" the "rich need to pay more". It sure does not sound like capitalism to me .. but hey box me away as a idiot and move on.

The level of denial is astounding ... Read the Socialists web sight (above) and compare it to your average DNC political campaign....its exaclty the same agenda.

Oh well ... the facts are clear I did my part .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Confuscius
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 20):

  

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

For a true free enterprise system head down to Somalia. Very limited government, little or no taxes and an unconditional right to bear arms. Own an AK-47 and you're in business, especially if one has a boat...if not, it's easy to own one---see AK-47!
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wolbo
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:55 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):
You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.


Well,

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and the stupidity of American right wing extremists, and I'm not sure about the former"

(to paraphrase some Austrian clever cookie)

And rarely a day goes by on this forum without ample evidence of this statement. It's a bit like watching a freak show: it doesn't make any sense, in fact it's totally weird, but it can be entertaining to watch.

And as an added benefit it makes you feel pretty sane in comparison.  
 
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casinterest
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
But every time I hear "more investment" the "rich need to pay more". It sure does not sound like capitalism to me

These quotes prove you have no clue about what capitalism is.


more investment is a tenant of Capitalism.

Rich need to pay more is an element of taxation which everyone in the US is responsible for. And plain and simply, the rich do need to pay more, as they have more Disposable Income due too capitalism, but then again from a Republican :

Religous fundamentalist that beleive it is more important to bomb foreign nations to protect the oil and do away with non-christians, while not paying for that them there dag nab federal government to interfere with anything but denying people rights:

that is what I would expect.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Mir
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:10 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 23):
The level of denial is astounding ... Read the Socialists web sight (above) and compare it to your average DNC political campaign....its exaclty the same agenda.

Were you expecting their agenda to resemble the GOP agenda?  

Fact of the matter is, we've got two major political parties in this country, and the minor parties are going to align themselves with one or the other. That doesn't mean that those minor parties define the major ones.

The only astounding denial here is your continued labeling of Obama as a socialist, Marxist, etc. when he isn't even close to that.

-Mir
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seb146
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:09 pm

Jesse Helms was once a member of the KKK. Jesse Helms was also a Republican when he died. Therefore, all Republicans are racist. Kinda sounds like the same argument. But, I guess anything to get a Democrat out of the White House.
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Doona
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:34 pm

First of all, why is this "Key Wiki" the wiki you linked to? What is wrong with regular Wikipedia? I looked at the front page and EVERYTHING seems to be about communists, marxists and Obama.

And as far as I can tell from their website and the wikipage, they seem to be social democrats, not socialists. And if you can't tell the difference by now, you shouldn't be making claims about it.

As has been mentioned, by European standards, where we actually have socialists in our political spheres, Obama corresponds to a Christian Democrat. And not a very centrist one.

And I'm sick of people using my country's economy as a bad example. If Obama's a socialist, then my country's centre/right government would be stalinist. Standard & Poor's, as well as Moody's just gave Sweden's credit rating a AAA score with a stable outlook, and we had a GDP growth of over 5% in 2010. And we managed that growth with a workforce that's 80% unionized (imagine that, eh?). The World Economic Forum ranked Sweden as the 2nd most competitive country in the world, after Switzerland. We must be doing something right.

And again, you can put your pants back on, you're nowhere near.

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racko
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 29):

First of all, why is this "Key Wiki" the wiki you linked to? What is wrong with regular Wikipedia? I looked at the front page and EVERYTHING seems to be about communists, marxists and Obama.

It's almost as awesome as Conservapedia. Great satire.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:23 pm

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):

You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.

   Americans are not unintelligent people - we have done great things on the frontier of science in the past, have made contributions to modern philosophy and economic thought, and can memorize vast amounts of sports and Hollywood trivia for water cooler consumption. Unfortunately many have an uncanny ability to cross their emotional compass with convenient "facts" when the topic turns to politics. I have to say, being on the outside of the country for a long time looking in, more and more this last point makes the good 'ol US of A look like a veritable nuthouse. Maybe we should call it what it is. Critical thinking is dead in contemporary American political discourse.   
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Klaus
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:24 pm

Quoting racko (Reply 30):
It's almost as awesome as Conservapedia. Great satire.

...only some people actually take them seriously!   
 
cargolex
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
It could begin to approach Sweden and Belgium if not stopped.

Two countries, I'm guessing by your statement, that you've never been to - though I can't say for sure. Having lived in Belgium and having a large family there, I can tell you that criticizing Belgium for being horrible because it's society leans more towards socialism than the United States makes Belgians laugh, laugh, and laugh some more. It probably makes Swedes laugh too, but I know fewer people from Sweden and I've never lived there.

Don't get me wrong, it's a deeply dysfunctional country. But somehow, they can provide an excellent healthcare system, fantastic infrastructure, and a very high standard of living despite not being able to agree on what language to speak or having a functional parliament while we, supposedly the most powerful nation on earth, cannot.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists . And that is fine with me ...if you choose that idea then good for you and you should fight for it. I am just tired of the cloaking and hiding the true identity

I'm awfully tired of hearing about the socialist boogeymen who apparently live in your closet, basement, and bathroom. I think you would do yourself a big favor by going to your local community college and taking a politics 101 course. They don't cost much, and there's plenty of opportunities to learn more. But I warn you, the reading can be very difficult.

Reading Max Weber - it's like stirring molasses or scraping a huge wall of paint clean with a razor blade. But you might really like him. He's sort of the anti-marx, and required reading in politics classes at most liberal arts schools and universities of all stripes.

[Edited 2011-06-28 15:58:50]
 
FingerLakerAv8r
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 28):
Standard & Poor's, as well as Moody's just gave Sweden's credit rating a AAA score with a stable outlook, and we had a GDP growth of over 5% in 2010. And we managed that growth with a workforce that's 80% unionized (imagine that, eh?). The World Economic Forum ranked Sweden as the 2nd most competitive country in the world, after Switzerland. We must be doing something right.

So are you guys hiring? 
 
Ken777
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:47 am

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
Next time I call Obama a Marxist / Socialist ... please use this as a reference before you dismiss me

Maybe check it out first?

From your link:

Quote:

For the last several months I've been working on a ground-breaking new project.

Together with a growing team we've created KeyWiki - a look at the covert side of politics.

At this stage KeyWiki is focusing primarily on the left in the United States.

We've started profiles on over 35,000 US people and organizations from the Democratic Socialists of America to the Center for American Progress, and from President Barack Obama to street level cadre communists.

We've got congressmen in there, "peace" activists, labor unionists, black radicals, "religious" socialists, "greenies", left wing academics , Obama appointees and thousands of card-carrying socialists and communists.

In short, all the people who are dragging America down.


So we have a bunch of right wingers going after everyone who isn't a knee jerk conservative.

35,000 people to START?

"All the people who are dragging America down."

Going after all those who do not agree with the right wing, inflexible political "conservatives? Moderates included?

You really want to us to use that link when evaluating you?

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):

The Connection between Obama and SEIU are as solid as concrete and steel ....

As Cheney once said, "so what"?

BFD.

Unions negotiated health care standards (employer nanny care) that conservatives all over the country enjoy.

Especially when it's the shareholders paying.

But then anyone to the "left" of Rush is a Socialist, Marxist Communist who is against America and the Tea Party.

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
So let us from now on call the Democrats what they are .. Marxists Socialists .

There we go.

Anyone who doesn't agree with the knee jerk hard right can't be normal, or a "Real American".

Anyone who believes the elderly deserve the Social Security and Medicare that they PAID FOR is a danger to the billionaires in the country and should never be trusted.

Anyone who believes in taking care of this nation's veterans is too far to the left to be patriotic.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
I'm not making any other arguments here, but if you are going to use terms, at least use them appropriately.

Not going to happen. Those folks believe you are either with them or are an Enemy Of America.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
Our President is a Marxist / Socialist

Because KeyWiki said so?         
 
StarAC17
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:50 am

Quoting racko (Reply 19):
All countries of what is nowadays commonly understood as the "West" (EU, NA, Australia, Israel etc.) are social market economies, capitalistic systems with regulation, oversight, a social safety net and a few key institutions controlled by the government (for example defense, law enforcement, emergency services, infrastructure, often the postal service).

Even the real "socialist" nations such as the Scandinavian countries have a private sector and a pretty good one at that where some very successful corporations come out of.

Those people willingly pay 60% taxes because they don't have to pay for a college education or health care. In fact if you added up what the average American paid for those two things as an example vs what say someone from Sweden paid for them in their taxes you would find that the Swede probably pays far less over there lifetime and enjoy the highest standard of living in the world.

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):
You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.

I wouldn't call Americans stupid but many of them are willfully ignorant about how things actually work in other parts of the world and that a little socialism is a good thing sometimes.

I don't know if their education system is responsible for it, but the US media certainly plays a role in it.
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OA412
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:04 am

Oye! Why are some of you even responding to the OP. Not only is it useless, those are five minutes of your life that you'll never get back.   But seriously, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who willfully posts, and believes in such nonsense, isn't worth the time of day.

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):
You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.

Hey now! Some of us are still capable of critical thinking.   However, it is true (and obviously abundantly clear), that our system of education has failed quite a few people.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
Obama is not even a Social Democrat by European standards, far from being a Democratic Socialist. On the European scale he would be a Christian Democrat which is on (or used to be until Mrs. Merkel destroyed that party) the liberal democratic right, Or center to right, whatever.

Bingo! Too bad that so very few people in this country truly understand that. Both parties in this country are right of center. All of this talk of the "far left", and "socialist Democrats" sorely misses the point. True Sociliasists aren't bought and sold by the highest corporate bidder as are the vast majority of Democratic politicans in this country. The healthcare bill, for instance, is a joke by European/Canadian standards. In fact, there are quite a few right-of-center political parties in other countries that are more liberal/progressive in nature than the Democratic Party.

Quoting racko (Reply 29):
It's almost as awesome as Conservapedia. Great satire.

Agreed. Too bad there are those who actually take it seriously, and even those who consider it to be a legitimate source.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 30):

  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
...only some people actually take them seriously!  

And there's the rub. It's great satire, but shouldn't be seen as much else. Sadly, I've seen "Conservapedia" articles posted on this site as legitimate sources.

[Edited 2011-06-28 18:16:32]
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PanHAM
Posts: 9719
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:58 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
Bingo! Too bad that so very few people in this country truly understand that. Both parties in this country are right of center. All of this talk of the "far left", and "socialist Democrats" sorely misses the point.

I could have added that Obama supports capital punishment, or at least is not against it. Now, that puts you really into the far right in Europe, so far right that on a 360° scale you can kiss the comrades from the far left. 

No, you are right in your statement that in the US both parties are on the right side of the spectrum and that includes Obama. When he held his speech in Berlin before his election I listened in on TV. Hois audience was mostly from the politicaqöl left in Germany and they applauded. It was an amazing excperience of so many "educated" people listening and obviously unable to follow the contents of a speech. If Helmut Kohl, or take a younger politician in Obama's age, Roland Koch, would have held exactly the same speech in German, all these people would have booed him.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
AGM100
Topic Author
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:23 pm

Thanks for playing along .....

Bernie Sanders .... who I happen to respect for being a honest socialist . Listen to his budget speech from yesterday .... it is verbatim the DNC budget position ... and he is not even a democrat . The DNC is basically the Socialist Party USA now.... so lets just arrive their and be done with it.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 35):
wouldn't call Americans stupid but many of them are willfully ignorant about how things actually work in other parts of the world and that a little socialism is a good thing sometimes.



I agree ....( I have been around the world a few times) why then canT democrat in the US just simply not call it Socialism .

Socialism is a encompassing idea .... since their are many variants and ideological differences within the left wing. But for me it all seems to arrive at the same place ... central planning , and wealth distribution. To be honest I see the merritts of it ... and sometimes I wish it would work like they tout it , but is does not. What it does is keep people like me from having the freedom to strike out on my own and be free ...free to fail and free to succeed .

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 34):
Because KeyWiki said so?



Cute ... no I posted that for information about DSOA ... DSOA the same group who organized a open border rally here last year with LA RAZA SEIU. They hate me ... they hate republicans and threatened us with violence ... they want to tear it down man. They are your people ...
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Klaus
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:33 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 36):
And there's the rub. It's great satire, but shouldn't be seen as much else. Sadly, I've seen "Conservapedia" articles posted on this site as legitimate sources.

Not to great success, however. The minute someone tries that stunt, they ruin the credibility of their remaining arguments instead of gaining authority through it.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
If Helmut Kohl, or take a younger politician in Obama's age, Roland Koch, would have held exactly the same speech in German, all these people would have booed him.

Hardly. Kohl and Koch were booed for their internal agenda particularly in social matters and Koch for his blatant corruption and xenophobic populism (and for being a just plain revolting person).

The indubitably greatest success Kohl ever achieved – the re-unification of Germany – was inherently built on the success of the Ostpolitik he wisely chose to continue from his predecessors Schmidt and Brandt, even though he had fought against it tooth and nail in earlier years. Foreign matters have long ceased to be a matter of major domestic dispute across the center.

The cheers for Obama came primarily as an expression of relief after the horrifying conduct of the Bush/Cheney administration, and of course Obama pushed all the right buttons for the attending expat americans and germans. He's also followed through on most of his promises, so I don't see the big issue.

There certainly remain issues which continue to cause concern, but making real policies is a bit more difficult than just making speeches.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Hardly. Kohl and Koch were booed for their internal agenda particularly in social matters and Koch for his blatant corruption and xenophobic populism (and for being a just plain revolting person).

Bit off topic, but I happen to live in Koch's constituency and be a member of the CDU and was one of about 100 people who he personally adressed and accounted for minute by minute what was done by his predecessors in offrice. Koch would not have been the successful PM of Hesse if he really had been a bit corrupt and particippated in the dealings. He did not, he discovered and put open what was done., Had he been involved he would not only have had to leave office at once, he would have been put on trial and tortured and finished for the rest of his life, you can be sure off that. There was nothing the mob and the media could find.

So they did what they always do, produce and keep simmering the fairy tales. That's what the dumb average Joe Doe wants to hear and wants to parrot, as we can see here, who cares about the truth. The same applies for what you call "xenophobia", ignoring the fact that Koch's campaign was FOR integration and AGAINST double citizenship which the SPD wanted for immigrants, of course not for native born Germans. You would be embarassed to hear how many SPD and Green voters signed the petition. It was nothing about xenophobia but guys like you are xenophobic about their own fellow citizens.

The point was, the crowd listening to Obama's speech in Berlin obviously lacked a deeper knowledge of the English language.
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Ken777
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
The DNC is basically the Socialist Party USA now.

And the RNC is basically a Party of the Koch Brothers, by the Koch Brothers and for the Koch Brothers.?

And anyone who doesn't bow down to the are Socialists?

How long before non Koch Brothers flowers will have to wear a Yellow Star?
 
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seb146
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:16 pm

What ever happened to "You have to respect the president or you are un-American?" Remember those 8 years whenver Bush was questioned? It is obvious that if you question the current president, you are un-American, according to the past outrage of questioning the president.
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casinterest
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:17 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 41):
And the RNC is basically a Party of the Koch Brothers, by the Koch Brothers and for the Koch Brothers.?

And anyone who doesn't bow down to the are Socialists?

How long before non Koch Brothers flowers will have to wear a Yellow Star?

Why continue this thread, he is busy popping pills, cheating around, and claiming wine was thrown at him, all due to mad crazy socialists. Jjust like his buddies, Rush, Gingrich, and Beck.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:23 pm

What is this thread even about?

Confused....

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
President Obama is a solid Marxist / socialist

That's a joke, right?

If Obama was Canadian, he'd run for the CPC. That should give you a better perspective.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
Hey it's working in China.

China is a communist regime in name only. The fact that China has a 3 class system totally proves that.

Quoting arrow (Reply 10):
You guys slay me. I thought it was just your health care system that was in disarray. I guess education is also terminally ill.

Meanwhile in Canada...

The Vancouver riot did enough damage to our street cred. We don't need to make it worse by running our mouths.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1683
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:01 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 38):
But for me it all seems to arrive at the same place ... central planning , and wealth distribution.

...., but that just isn't a reasonable or accepted definition of Socialism. You don't have much credibility to go around calling people Socialists and Marxists when it is so obvious you don't know what those things are. As others have stated, Socialism is an economic system predicated on governmental ownership of the means of production in whole or in part. Without that criteria being met, it just isn't Socialism.
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jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4327
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 46):
...., but that just isn't a reasonable or accepted definition of Socialism. You don't have much credibility to go around calling people Socialists and Marxists when it is so obvious you don't know what those things are. As others have stated, Socialism is an economic system predicated on governmental ownership of the means of production in whole or in part. Without that criteria being met, it just isn't Socialism.

Don't even bother... it's no use. I've tried in different threads, trying to educate about what socialism really is, comparisons to other countries politics, aims of real socialism compared to Democratic party. It's pointless. He's quite comfortable in his state of ignorant bliss that you either agree with him or are a 'socialist'. Anything to the left of him is 'socialism'..
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AGM100
Topic Author
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RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:22 pm

Quoting seb146 (Reply 42):
What ever happened to "You have to respect the president or you are un-American?" Remember those 8 years whenver Bush was questioned? It is obvious that if you question the current president, you are un-American, according to the past outrage of questioning the president



Oh ... I am just sitting in the back of the car like he told me too. He runs America without us republicans remember ? He took the keys from us remember ? .... doesn't sound like he wants to be my president .

Quoting TheCol (Reply 45):
That's a joke, right?



He is only restrained by political necessity ... you would not suggest that he stands up and sides with DSOA openly ? No , he needs to get re elected first .. it is all spelled out in Alinsky's writings. The position right now is simply just to break the system down ... stay the course politically but work to overwhelm it.. work to in- debt the system and remove wealth from the holders of it. Swell the dependent ranks ... they will support you politically until they finally arrive at that magic 51% dependent number.

He understands Alinsky ... but we are only in the organizational stage at this point. (Although I don't think Saul even imagined having the presidency) The effort of Pitting communities and classes against each other ... pushing the imperialists around and creating "doubt in everything"... mass doubt and confusions uncertainty and chaos is the real path to "fundamental change".,, but it is done with delegates not guns. And we thought it was the audacity of hope ...
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agill
Posts: 1101
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Democratic Socialists Of America And Obama.

Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:28 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
It could begin to approach Sweden and Belgium if not stopped.

Well considering that we'll make a budget surplus maybe that would be a good thing for you. And saying that Obama is a marxist is just as stupid as all those that said Bush was a nazi. Just low class nonsence of uneducated people.

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